Latest / Coffee People Podcast / Plantary Design CEO Jess Nepstad joins the Coffee People podcast.

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Plantary Design CEO Jess Nepstad joins the Coffee People podcast. · Coffee People Podcast

0:01
Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of the Coffee People
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podcast presented by Rostar Coffee Packaging.
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context from the episode. OK, now that that is out of the
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way, I hope that you have a good cup of coffee at the ready
0:56
because we're going to get into the conversation with a new
0:58
guest today. Thank you for being here with me
1:01
on the Coffee People podcast. Cheers.
1:14
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Now that was smooth. But yeah, I I learned in the
1:46
last week or so about you that you were a basketball guy,
1:50
played and then coached, I think at the high school level, right?
1:54
Sure. Yeah, I also played and coached
1:56
at the high school level. I coached the team or was a
2:00
coach on a team. And I went to the state
2:01
tournament, Wisconsin and oh fabulous 90s, early 2000s and
2:05
so. Yeah, my the team that I played
2:07
on, we lost at the state championship.
2:10
I played one of my worst games in my career, which has always
2:12
been, you know, I'm still going to counseling for that.
2:15
But the the next, the next year we won the state championship by
2:20
40 points. So some of the guys that were
2:23
on, you know, the second time around, they were prepared and
2:26
then they won the state championship 2 years after that.
2:28
So we had like this six year run where, you know, Montana,
2:31
Livingston, Livingston Park High School basketball.
2:34
It was just a one of those stars aligned and the teams were
2:38
great. It was such a fun time.
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I was curious about, you know, coaching after I, I played,
2:45
which was a different, you know, mentally I, I didn't wasn't
2:48
getting my competitive urges out, but I had this other kind
2:51
of more encompassing, overwhelming thought process
2:55
about coaching. You know, 20 years later, if I
2:58
can't sleep, I run plays in my head, you know, and I think
3:00
about how I would teach them. Do you find overlap between
3:05
running your own business and perhaps the old days of coaching
3:08
is a good way to build a foundation there?
3:12
Well, I, there's, so I think sports teaches us so many things
3:15
and I hope that American continues to, you know,
3:18
encourage kids and being in sports 'cause you learn about
3:20
being on a team and all those things.
3:22
For me, what I like about owning my own company is I get to keep
3:26
score every day, you know, with, you know, how you did on the
3:29
sales and you're always competing.
3:31
And so that kind of feels that competitive urge.
3:34
And then the second part is I, you know, love working with a
3:37
team and building a team and, you know, making, you know,
3:40
throwing a good assist and making them, giving them the two
3:42
points and building, you know, really building a team
3:46
atmosphere is super important. And I think that's all really
3:50
nice crossover from sports and coaching and loving all, you
3:55
know, just loving, you know, the whole aspect of team.
3:59
It's just terrific. Speaking of the show and all the
4:27
important things that we're doing today, you should
4:28
introduce yourself. If you wouldn't mind, let anyone
4:31
listening know what your name is, the name of your company,
4:34
and what it is you do there. Well, welcome and hello to
4:38
everybody and thanks for tuning in.
4:39
My name is Jess Nepstead. I'm from originally grew up in
4:44
Montana. I'm named after a guy, Jess, who
4:46
is a rodeo star. So that's how I got my name.
4:49
My dad always liked that name. I have the privilege of working
4:54
at Planetary Design that my partners and I purchased nine
4:58
years ago in a month, I think and I Planetary Design makes a
5:02
lot of great coffee gear. I like to say we're at the
5:06
confluence of where the outdoors and coffee come together.
5:09
So we do a lot of stuff for home brewing.
5:12
But we, the part that really gets me fired up and pumped up
5:15
is, you know, we make a lot of travel French presses and I
5:18
think we make the best French press.
5:21
And then we make a terrific coffee storage device that's
5:25
sold globally. And, you know, it's a terrific
5:28
product. And we're just proud to work
5:30
together and put them out there and let people enjoy them.
5:33
Some of those brands just for everyone.
5:35
Brutech, Airscape can escape Ethos, planetarydesign.com.
5:42
We'll just get that out right away.
5:44
And of course. For everybody in all the links
5:47
and in the show notes, coffee is you know where the focus of this
5:53
company is, although you can probably store other things and
5:55
make other things. Sure.
5:58
Do you, before you got into coffee as a business, do you
6:02
have a first kind of coffee experience that you remember or
6:05
a time? I mean, in my head I'm imaginary
6:08
imagining romantic Montana Range coffee overlooking a river, but
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that's probably not everybody's first experience.
6:14
Well, yeah, it would. That would be terrific if that's
6:17
what it was. But you know, I always tell
6:19
people my, you know, like if I would have just been paying
6:22
attention to what my grandfather or my stepdad was doing, there
6:27
was all these inventions just right at my feet.
6:29
In, in my first coffee experiences, I didn't drink
6:31
coffee, but my stepdad would give me a ride to school and he
6:36
had a, a regular coffee cup just, you know, like, like this.
6:40
And he'd fill it up And he had so much cream and sugar in
6:43
there. I don't know how it was even
6:44
considered coffee at that point. But he would balance it very,
6:48
very carefully on the floorboard of the truck and drive super
6:52
slow so he wasn't spilling his coffee.
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So I mean, like coffee cup holders have been invented right
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around the spot. If I wasn't a, you know, a 7
7:01
year old punk kid go to school and then a travel mug and all
7:04
those things. But it was, you know, those were
7:06
just, and I remember just as a kid always watching, you know,
7:10
watching the thing. Like we go over a bump.
7:12
I'd look to see if his coffee spilled or, you know, he had to
7:15
make a sudden stop. But that coffee was this prized
7:17
position that he had to get to work with.
7:19
But that's probably my first real memory or love of coffee is
7:24
just watching this guy tried to get his his his prize beverage
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to to work. I grew up, we had an old truck
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as well. And I learned how to drive on
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that truck when I was about maybe 9-10 years old.
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And my dad would be standing in the in the back, in the box in
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the back with a big tanker of water.
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And I'd have to drive from tree to tree while he watered the
7:50
trees in this new piece of land, except my foot couldn't reach
7:55
the puddle. So we would duct tape phone
7:58
books to my shoes so I could reach.
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And I have this this wonderful memory now.
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But at the time, I'm sure it was terrible of me trying to see
8:07
press the button and then also having him yell at me for
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bouncing around and water splashing out.
8:14
There's something about old trucks that even today when I
8:16
see one, I have that that nice. And they would, you know, you
8:21
put it in 4 low and then you would tie like a bungee cord
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around the steering wheel. And even if it kind of went in a
8:28
circle or whatever, but that was just to try to keep it going on
8:31
a straight line. And then you'd hop out and jump
8:33
in the back and start throwing hay.
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And then just hope that you know, you get all the hay
8:37
dispense before you ran into a fence or a ditch or something.
8:41
We're going to fall into a Robert Redford movie here if we
8:43
keep going down this path. Jess, I'm curious.
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I want to talk a little bit about your kind of your career
8:51
history. You weren't always doing
8:53
planetary design. I know you mentioned nine years
8:55
ago. I'm assuming you did stuff
8:57
before that with some companies that have been in the news this
9:01
week, kind of big time news. But what you know what got you
9:05
started after that? You're a kid in Montana.
9:09
You're coming up. What happens next?
9:11
That leads us to, let's call it 10 or 15 years down the road.
9:15
I'm sure your audience is going, this guy's long winded, so I'll
9:18
try to tell shorter stories. But no, no, graduated in, you
9:22
know, in the 80s in Montana State and they're really,
9:25
Montana's economy was really in a tough spot and so was the rest
9:28
of the world. But I think Montana didn't have
9:30
a diverse economy like it does today.
9:33
And I think, you know, thank goodness for the Internet and
9:35
all those great things that allow people to work, you know,
9:38
in places they want to live. So I moved to Southern
9:40
California, I was bounced around doing lots of things.
9:43
I think we at the opening, I ended up coaching high school
9:46
basketball just 'cause I didn't know what to do with myself
9:48
after 8:00 to 5:00. And that was a terrific
9:51
experience. But I end up true stories.
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I meet a guy in the restroom, literally, and we're doing our
9:58
business in there. And he looks over at me and I'd
10:00
met him in in this hall in passing and he says, hey, what
10:03
are you doing this weekend? And I said, well, nothing.
10:05
He says, would you give me a hand?
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I'm installing a, I'm putting equipment in a coffee shop and I
10:10
need some help. And I said, sure, I'll give you
10:11
a hand. And, and this guy was 20 years
10:14
my senior and we went out and installed a coffee shop in
10:18
Phalen, California, like in the middle of nowhere.
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And he and I had a grand time together and next week he's
10:26
asked me to do something else. So I really like my first thing
10:29
was I built a coffee shop and I ended up going into restaurant
10:31
equipment and design and did that for a couple years.
10:35
Then I bought a grain elevator and Fort well outside of Fort
10:39
Collins little town called Windsor Co moved up and did that
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for a couple 3 or 4 years. And then I went to work for a
10:47
company that manufactured coffee carts.
10:49
So remember, I mean, kind of in the 90s when that whole cart
10:53
thing blew up. So I went to work for a company
10:56
there in, in my, one of my customers was Nestle and I
11:02
called on Nestle. I always tell this story to
11:04
folks as I called on him for 2 1/2 years, never sold him
11:07
anything, but they offered me a job anyway.
11:09
And I was like, well, you're offered a job to a guy that
11:11
couldn't sell you anything. But So I've always been around
11:14
coffee. And then I started a career at
11:16
Nestle. What year was that?
11:19
95 and sold office coffee, sold convenience store coffee, coffee
11:25
make creamers, Nescafe. At that time they owned a bunch
11:27
of roast and ground companies. And so I, I tell people I've
11:31
really been in the coffee business one way or the other
11:34
since 1987. And it's, it's been, you know,
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just, it's been a terrific channel to be in.
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And you know, I still always had the love of outdoors.
11:42
So when this company came available, it's like I get to
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combine, you know, several loves and I get to move back to
11:49
Montana. So I mean, I was like a was a no
11:52
brainer to get it done. I mean, probably wasn't the best
11:54
company to buy. It was losing 1/2 a million a
11:56
year and I was probably the only one that really wanted to buy
11:59
it. But it checked all the boxes for
12:01
me and, and gave me an opportunity to to go into a
12:06
company and really we had to turn it around.
12:08
It was in tough shape and we got it turned around.
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The team and my partners and I, we got it turned around and and
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you know, we're over 20 employees and growing and having
12:17
a lot of fun. You must have seen something at
12:22
Planetary Design that made you think that it could be turned
12:25
around. What was that thing there that
12:28
you went, OK, they're not making it on paper.
12:30
The money isn't coming in somewhere.
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Something is disconnected. But I think I have something or
12:35
I see something that I can make work.
12:37
What was that thing? Exactly, And that was the aha
12:40
for me and and that's a great question.
12:42
I, I said, shoot, I've been in coffee, like I said, since 1987
12:46
and I've never seen these products.
12:48
They're terrific. And there was patents around
12:50
them. And I'm like, they just just got
12:52
to get out of their own way and get, you know, get some
12:54
processes and procedures in place and get some energy, maybe
12:58
a little money in place and get redirected and really kind of
13:02
figure out who we are as a brand and a company and put some
13:06
energy in it. And, and the part that I really
13:10
liked was I could see the problems.
13:12
I can, I can see them. I can you know what, it's not
13:15
like you don't know the algorithm today and you can't
13:17
see it. So you don't know why your sales
13:19
are off, you know, on Facebook or Meta or whatever.
13:22
Those problems were all pretty operational or product.
13:25
And I could, I mean, I literally can just, you can see them too.
13:28
You can look at it and go, I can fix that.
13:30
I can see the problem. I know what it is.
13:32
And I just got to get busy and, and there was, and the other
13:37
part of it, there was a three or four team members that I just
13:39
said, these are really talented, sharp people that just haven't
13:43
been given the support, direction, leadership that they
13:46
need. And so I kept half the staff on
13:49
the operation side and one of the finance folks and, and we
13:53
rebooted the whole darn thing, fired all our factories, got new
13:57
factories, got new designs. And for about 3 years, I was, it
14:02
was, you know, it was morning, noon and night and I was pretty
14:06
scared. But you have to kind of take
14:09
those risks to, to move the needle.
14:10
And, and I, we just kind of got our wheels going.
14:15
I thought, well, jeez, we're there.
14:16
And then COVID happened. I was like, oh jeez, now we're
14:18
in really bad shape. And it turned out COVID was a
14:20
blessing for us because people had to make coffee at home
14:23
because the coffee shops were closed.
14:25
People started shopping more online.
14:27
So people started figuring out who we were and we ended up
14:30
having two of our best growth years during COVID and I thought
14:33
that was going to sink our ship. So and after COVID, I mean, I
14:37
think we've kind of, you know, got to the spot where people
14:40
know who we are and we've got enough things in place that, you
14:43
know, we should be on our way of knock on wood.
14:45
I mean, tariffs was another curveball right at my head since
14:48
you're wearing the Brewers, Addie and I was a very good
14:51
baseball player, but that curveball of tariffs was right
14:54
at my head. And and but we've navigated that
14:56
as a team again. And you know, that's the fun
15:00
part of running a business here. Every day is going to be a new
15:02
surprise. There was a a group of
15:06
businesses during the early days of COVID that COVID really
15:09
benefited, you know, people having time to go down the
15:11
rabbit hole of coffee storage. It might not have been something
15:14
they thought about before. There's the risk there that you
15:18
over expand and then COVID ends and you've got a regress.
15:23
Was that ever a concern for you, or were you able to keep up in a
15:26
way that felt sustainable? Well, it it happened, but not to
15:32
the degree. So what had really happened to
15:35
us is we had two really good years, the first two years of
15:38
COVID and then the supply chain, that whiplash of that supply
15:43
chain caught us. Want to say it was would have
15:47
been 23 or 22 and we couldn't get our top selling products for
15:52
like 60 days. So you know, we made it through
15:55
the COVID and then that next year after we really just ran
15:58
out of product and you don't have your best product for 60
16:01
days. That's it's like making a 12
16:03
month year or ten month year. And, you know, so it, that was
16:06
our only year where we, you know, didn't, didn't make any
16:10
money or we struggled and we probably were out over our skis.
16:13
But you can't let people go because you can't get product
16:15
for two months. And so you, you know, you take
16:18
one on the chin there and turned around the next year and we were
16:21
back to where we wanted to be. But that was kind of a, that's
16:24
what hurt us. But a lot of our customers in
16:28
the overland space and you know, where the building those vans,
16:30
everybody's well, I can work from home, I'm going to live in
16:33
a van. And you know, that market really
16:35
blew up and a lot of our good partners that buy our products
16:38
for that group really struggle the next two years because
16:41
you're overbuilt or you know, the bottom kind of drops on
16:44
everyone goes well shoot, now I can go on a cruise or I can go
16:46
back to flying and that market kind of fell.
16:49
A lot of those folks were our partners and customers so that I
16:53
saw it. But hopefully, you know,
16:56
thankfully we were not too far out over our skis.
16:58
Sure. You mentioned best selling
17:00
products. I know.
17:01
I believe the the Airscape which is the storage container is one
17:07
of those. I think the point of it is that
17:10
it it it pushes air out. Is that my understanding that
17:13
correctly? Yeah, the the beauty of the
17:16
Airscape, it's pretty pretty straightforward.
17:18
It doesn't require any twisting or batteries or anything, and
17:21
it's got a really wonderful design and patented plunger.
17:24
And as you push that plunger down to your ground coffee or
17:28
your whole bean coffee, it pushes out the excess oxygen and
17:32
then you close the handle and you've walked out UV light,
17:34
which coffee doesn't like. You've locked out humidity and
17:38
you forced most of the air out of the coffee.
17:40
So it keeps your coffee fresher longer.
17:43
We like to say two to three times longer.
17:44
And that's a quote from, you know, the people that are
17:47
subjectively test tasting and coffee, you know, whether it's
17:51
Seattle coffee gear, you know, they've got a pretty good crew
17:54
up there. So I quote them instead of it
17:56
being my quote I let there. That's what they said is, you
17:59
know, they pulled shots and they said, yeah, this will store your
18:01
coffee longer and fresher. And I like that part is because,
18:04
you know, all of us, you know, coffee shops are big customers
18:07
of ours, roasters, and they want their coffee testing, tasting as
18:10
good as it can for as long as it can and educating customers and
18:15
saying, hey, this is the best way to store your coffee.
18:17
And it's going to be fresher longer.
18:19
We'll have less waste, we'll have better coffee.
18:22
And everybody gets to smile. I was travelling through
18:25
Oklahoma last summer and before I knew you before, I hadn't met
18:30
anyone from your company. And the person that we were
18:34
staying with in Oklahoma City had one of your products on the
18:37
counter that they were storing their coffee.
18:39
And I don't want to say which ones.
18:40
I'm not exactly sure. I just remember the, it was my
18:43
first kind of introduction. So I remember the, the label and
18:47
he was so excited about it and how it, it, you know, he's, he's
18:50
like, this is, you know, something I'm doing to make for
18:52
a better experience in the morning.
18:54
And I'm someone who drinks a lot of coffee, but I'm on the road a
18:57
lot as well. And so I'm not storing as much
19:00
usually. Or I have so much coffee that I
19:02
don't know what to do with it all 'cause I buy it just 'cause
19:06
I like supporting where I'm at. But I can't always get through
19:08
it all. And so it was a a turning point
19:12
for me to see that somebody who I didn't think of as like a
19:17
super coffee intensive aficionado was also thinking
19:21
about this just for his regular everyday.
19:24
Sometimes it's local specialty, sometimes it's Kirkland, you
19:27
know, Whatever it was, he wanted it to be as good as he could
19:30
because that's his coffee for the day.
19:33
And I, if I can do a little product pitch, I think that's
19:36
really the beauty of our product is, you know, on the bell curve
19:39
of coffee snobs or aficionados, you know, there's this big
19:44
center part of that bell curve that people just want a good cup
19:47
of coffee, right? And then you get out on that one
19:49
end, one end is 1 end is your drink it probably instant coffee
19:54
from the 70s, not instant coffee from today because there's a lot
19:57
of people doing it. Terrific.
19:58
And then out on that other end of the the bell curve are those
20:02
aficionados that are buying, you know, special releases and all
20:07
of those things. And we have an upgrade to our
20:10
our standard air airscape plunger.
20:12
Where it actually has a degassing valve built in it and
20:15
has a fresh port where you can actually insert argon gas and
20:19
flush it just like it was when it was in the bag.
20:21
Because every bag you buy at the, you know, off the store
20:23
that's been flushed with either nitrogen or argon.
20:27
So if you bring put the product into our airscape and have the
20:29
upgraded lid, if you're one of those two percenters on the bell
20:33
curve, you can flush that canister and get all oxygen out
20:37
of there. And it's just like you put it in
20:39
back in the bag. And, and where I see a lot of
20:42
folks using that is, hey, on the weekend when I have time to sit
20:46
down and really have a great cup of coffee with my significant
20:48
other on a Saturday or Sunday morning, I'm going to break out
20:52
that really nice coffee and I'm going to do whatever I do to it,
20:55
whether I'm going to have espresso shot or French bread.
20:58
And then I can put it away for that whole week and put argon
21:01
gas back in there for cost of about $0.10 or a nickel.
21:05
And I know that, that product is going to be ultimate freshness
21:08
when I taste it. So we've had, I mean, that's
21:10
something that we've developed over these years, but it's just
21:13
taking care of everybody on that bell curve.
21:15
And I think that's the beauty of the airscape is for like 95% of
21:19
us, it, it does the job every day.
21:20
And, and if there's people that want to go to that next level
21:22
with a degassing valve and, and flushing it with nitrogen, we,
21:26
we have that opportunity today to share it with them.
21:29
So it's been been a lot of fun. Sure.
21:31
And we're not all at the same point in our coffee journey at
21:34
the same time. I've been in that 5% and I've
21:36
been in that 95% and it kind of depends on the energy levels I
21:41
have based on what else is going on in my life.
21:43
I had some 2:00 AM coffee at a convenience store that I know I
21:45
was on the other end, right? Sure.
21:48
One thing I noticed when I was playing around on your website
21:51
there all of the products have their kind of their own
21:55
branding, their own registered, you know, Mark, whether it's
21:58
Brutech or Airscape or or whatever.
22:01
Why? Why focus on the, the product
22:04
instead of Planetary Design as a company that provides products?
22:08
Like if you would have said to me, you know, before I met with
22:11
one of your, your employees there at convention, oh, hey, do
22:16
you know Planetary Design? I would have said no.
22:18
But if they said, do you know Airscape, I would have said yes,
22:20
but that kind of kept me away from some of the other products
22:23
because I didn't know to look for them.
22:24
So why do that? And how often do you get emails
22:28
from your marketing team asking like, Hey, can we change this
22:31
up? I got a lot of people not happy
22:33
with me sometimes. For sure.
22:34
I develop. I come up with product ideas or,
22:37
you know, things too fast, so they're mad at me for that.
22:40
But I go back to my Nestle time as well as my partner did some
22:44
time and Nestle and Coke and Lipton and you know, where you
22:48
have the parent company, whether it's, you know, Nike or Yeti or
22:53
whatever. And I'm kind of envious that,
22:55
you know, Nike is that brand And it turns out it works across for
22:58
them. We bought the company.
23:01
I wasn't thrilled with the name Planetary Design, but I really
23:04
like the name Airscape. But the whole legality of where
23:08
we were and it's already been somewhat developed as a brand
23:12
and you know, we were finding out how often somebody types in
23:15
Planetary Design versus Airscape.
23:17
So there is a some of these decisions of what you do from
23:20
where you are, because it's hard to hit the restart button.
23:24
But probably if I could, I would maybe have come up with a name
23:26
that what I could have used across all of them.
23:28
But so we ended up with Planetary Design and Airscape
23:31
when we purchased the company. And then we said, well, they've
23:35
got all these great French travel French presses and it
23:37
doesn't Planetary design doesn't really mean anybody like you had
23:40
just shared. So I said, well, let's try to
23:43
come up with a rugged outdoor brand for brewing coffee.
23:46
We'll stay out of the cold hydration and just stick to hot
23:49
hydration. And brew was part of the brew
23:52
thing and Trek, because I think every good adventure starts with
23:55
a cup of coffee. I mean, if you and I are going
23:57
to go snowmobiling and we're going to go hunting or whatever,
23:59
we're going to load up and take a cup of coffee and get on the
24:01
road. So that was kind of how we came
24:03
up with brew Trek. Well, then we wanted to
24:06
introduce a really nice home upscale version for because not
24:09
everybody's out living in a cabin in Wisconsin.
24:13
So then we came up with Ethos. And so I've created 5 or 6
24:16
brands here, but I really wanted the brand to have a real
24:19
identity and really go after who the niche was and who we were
24:24
trying to really touch in a positive way from a, you know,
24:27
product experience. So we ended up create, I think
24:30
we got 5 or 6 brands at this point.
24:32
And it's frustrating. And I wish I could just be Nike
24:36
or I could be Yeti or I could be Carhart, but that's kind of not
24:39
the not the way the cards came out.
24:41
But yes, my marketing department's frustrated, but
24:45
it's working out. And what I as a business owner,
24:48
it's nice to see people buying now.
24:51
We bring them in with Airscape, which is, it's our number one
24:53
product. And then people, you know, are
24:56
pleased with the product, which is great.
24:57
And then they come back and say, well, I'll try out their coffee,
25:00
other coffee gear. And so that's that's kind of
25:03
helping us grow those other brands is, is having one big
25:06
hero product and gives me something to tinker with as
25:09
well. You you're in Montana now.
25:15
I'm assuming that's Montana behind you.
25:17
Yes, Sir. In the window, coming from
25:20
Southern California, you grew up in Montana.
25:23
You leave, and now you've returned.
25:25
Is this the Montana that you remember from your youth?
25:29
And what is it about Montana that that, you know, stuck with
25:32
you long enough that you wanted to go home?
25:35
Who has? That's a SO.
25:36
Your questions are long so that my answers independent.
25:40
It's a bad habit. And they're fun to unpack.
25:43
I forget that someone else might even listen to this.
25:45
It's just, for me, it's just interesting, you know?
25:47
Yeah, boy, I, I was, I was, I was near Lake Tahoe, but I
25:52
wasn't in Lake Tahoe when I met this guy.
25:54
And we're standing in this lake and it was at a outdoor coffee
26:00
event. And he says, where are you from?
26:03
And I said, well, I'm from Montana.
26:04
He goes and the next thing he said to me and he says, why is
26:07
it all you Montanans are so excited to tell everybody you're
26:10
from Montana, where if you're from Oklahoma, nobody gets that
26:13
excited because you Montanans are always so.
26:14
And I just think there's a pride and a a love for it.
26:19
I mean, I, it's just, it's in my blood, you know, And as a kid
26:23
growing up be home by dark was kind of the rule.
26:27
And I, I'm living, I grew up in Livingston and it's surrounded
26:30
by three different mountain ranges.
26:31
And, and back then you just had access and we would jump fences
26:36
and nobody had no trespass. There was no trespassing.
26:38
It was just, we knew, you know, how to behave and be proper and,
26:42
and we could be in the mountains and ride your bike anywhere and
26:47
do whatever you want. And so I just really became a
26:50
part of, you know, I spent all the time on horseback or on a
26:53
bicycle or hiking and it just became part of who I was.
26:58
I moved to California and I'm very thankful for that because
27:01
of the business opportunities and raised a family there.
27:05
And just to I'm very thankful I met great people and had a, you
27:10
know, a whole different life experience.
27:12
I sadly lost my bride three years ago and we were and she
27:17
was my anchor to Southern California.
27:19
And when she passed with cancer, I just knew I had to go home
27:24
because I needed to just to, you know, hit a restart button, if
27:27
you will. And and that's what I did.
27:30
I packed up and I had already owned Planetary Design.
27:33
I was commuting because she didn't want to move to Montana.
27:35
She goes, I love it in the summer, but I don't want to live
27:37
there in the winter. I said, that's fine, I'll just
27:38
commute. And that's how I did it for the
27:40
first six years. And then I just packed
27:43
everything up and moved home. But I can tell you just driving
27:46
around a dirt road or A2 lane highway through the mountains
27:49
here just fills my heart and feels like home.
27:54
There's something about that word home.
27:56
You know, I live far from where I grew up and I have now for
28:00
almost 15 years. And sometimes when I'm home, I
28:06
feel this wonderful nostalgia. And sometimes when I'm home it,
28:09
I get confused because it doesn't feel like home anymore
28:11
because I haven't been there in so long and things have changed.
28:14
And I think what I've come to realize is that where my wife
28:18
is, is, is home, you know, where the dog is.
28:21
That's, that's home for me for now.
28:22
And, and you know, I'm sorry to hear about about your wife and,
28:27
and that change. And I think, you know, being an
28:31
entrepreneur, it's easy to throw yourself into things and lose
28:36
your, yourself a little bit. And that can be a way of of kind
28:41
of honoring the people around you by doing the best you.
28:43
Can. Yeah.
28:44
And coping with the grief and it was a beautiful thing, mate.
28:47
We were married 32 years and you know, she was going through
28:52
Hospice and she said you need to move back to Montana, find a
28:55
Montana gal and and keep living. And I've been fortunate enough
29:00
to do that. So I'm happy about that.
29:02
But it was with my wife's wishes and I guess would be approval or
29:07
whatever you want to say and her urgent.
29:10
She's like, you need to go back to Montana and and that's where
29:12
your home is. And you gave me 30 years in
29:15
California in my home state. And you never, you know, you
29:18
made it part of our our life and you sacrifice because I knew you
29:24
wanted to be back at home, but you just.
29:26
And so it was, it was a beautiful thing.
29:28
And I got back home to Montana and she was a fabulous
29:33
cheerleader. She's the one that encouraged me
29:35
to buy the company and and I think she'd be terribly proud of
29:38
what we've accomplished. Buying a company as opposed to
29:43
working for one. You know, I mentioned Nestle
29:46
being in the news earlier. There's a big, big story about
29:50
layoffs happening at the company.
29:52
You know, when you work for a big company, there's a little
29:56
bit of an opportunity to avoid risk in your life because
29:58
there's a paycheck coming in. But you never really have
30:01
control or autonomy. Even if you're, you know, high
30:04
up enough that you get a little bit of freedom.
30:07
Choosing to buy a company, you take on all the risk you take
30:11
on, you know, all the day-to-day.
30:13
You don't get to leave it at the door.
30:15
What made you think that at this point in your life that was
30:18
something you wanted and has It kind of has.
30:21
I know you have partners. You know, how has this this path
30:26
NAV been navigated for you guys? You know you're all choosing to
30:29
do this thing after having other careers.
30:33
Well, I, you know, my mom was a serial entrepreneur.
30:38
So as a kid growing up, I mean, should two or three businesses
30:41
go on all the time? And my grandparents on both
30:45
sides were entrepreneurs, own their own businesses.
30:49
And I always wanted to be an entrepreneur rights, you know, I
30:51
sure that I own a grain elevator.
30:53
And then I went to work for somebody and then I ended up
30:55
working at Nestle. And that was right when I was
30:57
having, you know, growing a family with kids.
31:00
So that security was there. But even Nestle and I, you know,
31:04
tip my hat to them. They recognized that I was an
31:06
entrepreneur early when I was there and they afforded me so
31:12
many opportunities. They go, hey, this, this channel
31:14
or this segment's broken or not working or not performing, go
31:18
fix it. And I'd go do that for a couple
31:20
years. And just about the time I'd get
31:21
bored and get it fixed, they'd say, oh, please go work on this
31:24
one and fix that. And, and, and gave me way more
31:27
autonomy than I would you would ever imagine in a corporate
31:29
setting and just kind of let me do my own thing.
31:33
So I, you know, made mistakes on their diamond wasn't my, you
31:37
know, my livelihood and learned, learned a ton about branding and
31:41
new products, channel marketing, you know, everything.
31:43
And they gave me a great 18 year career.
31:48
Compensation was great. And they, but I think the
31:50
biggest thing was what they taught me.
31:52
And then they, they afforded me a lot of opportunities.
31:55
And when I rolled into planetary design, all those problems that
31:59
I shared earlier that I could see I'd already fixed in other
32:03
places and other ways or, and on a much different scale, he'd had
32:07
like 3 zeros. But so I think I had to, you
32:11
know, the confidence in the, in the, you know, the experience
32:15
and it just all worked together. And so getting to be an
32:18
entrepreneur again was something I wanted to do and I enjoy it
32:22
and, and it's the risk is there. But I just think, you know, back
32:27
to even all the way back to the original conversation, I like
32:30
competing. I like the fun of building and
32:32
and that's what it scratches those itches if you will.
32:35
Since you've worked for yourself and you've been, you know, part
32:38
of a bigger company and you've you've done all these different
32:41
things. If you were to give some advice
32:43
to a burgeoning entrepreneur, you know, even myself, I
32:46
consider myself a burgeoning entrepreneur, even though I've
32:49
been kind of doing things like this for the long, a long time
32:51
now. What advice would you give them
32:55
if they were considering stepping away from that
32:57
corporate job, say, or that stability there onto that
33:01
entrepreneurial path? What should they know?
33:04
Well, I think that answer, if you would have asked me this a
33:06
year ago, I think my answer would have changed a little bit.
33:08
But because AI can create so many things, you know, and, and
33:14
help people accelerate business startups.
33:17
And my, I've started a couple other businesses and I was like,
33:20
shoot, by the time you get the legal work done and you design
33:22
the logo and you put your business card, you're already
33:25
tired and you haven't even started making money.
33:28
So I think if you asked me a question last year, my advice
33:30
would have been, you know, find, find a business that's, and
33:34
there are lots of businesses for sale and find a business that
33:37
you're passionate about and the wheels on the bus are moving.
33:40
And then you can go in and fix it and change it because you
33:43
already have a revenue stream, You know, because if you're
33:46
doing a startup, you got to, you got to either have a pile of
33:49
money or have a bunch of investors and it just takes a,
33:52
you know, a pretty long time to get something going where, and
33:56
I've done two or three startups from zero and they're
33:59
exhausting. And then finding planetary
34:03
design, at least the wheels on the bus are moving and I don't
34:05
have to worry about insurance and setting up bank accounts and
34:08
setting up, you know, legal stuff.
34:10
And I can get right to running the business.
34:13
And that appeals to me. That's not everybody's cup of
34:16
tea. But that, you know, tomorrow I
34:18
had to start all over again. I'd go find another company and
34:21
figure out because I like that the wheels are already moving
34:23
and maybe they just need to be tires need to be changed and the
34:26
oil needs to be changed. I don't have to build a whole
34:28
new car, you know, and I would think my other thing, your
34:34
advice would be have a list of a checklist of what you want.
34:38
What is it that you, you know, do you want independence?
34:40
Do you want, you want to manufacture something or
34:43
whatever? And just have this list because
34:45
there's going to be a lot of shiny objects.
34:47
And as entrepreneurs, I think we're, you know, excited about
34:49
everything, life and people. And when you start looking at
34:52
businesses, everything looks good and really just be able to
34:56
take it through that checklist of what are you after and what
34:59
are you passionate about? And, and, and let you know and
35:04
run every business opportunity through that, through that prism
35:09
of questions so that you know that you're not going to go down
35:12
a path and not be happy. I mean, I started a jewelry
35:14
company and I just wanted to do something different than food.
35:18
And, and 2 1/2 years into it, after I'd learned it and had all
35:22
that fun and I might kind of scratch the issue of doing
35:24
something different, I realized I was doing it by myself.
35:27
I missed working with a team I I didn't like that I could make
35:31
money while I was sleeping, you know, and I, there were seems
35:34
there's all these things that I was like, this doesn't work for
35:37
me. But I flew down that thing
35:39
before I that rabbit hole before I really said, is this a good
35:43
fit for me? I just saw an opportunity and
35:46
said, Oh yeah, I'm going to do it.
35:46
And it was like, well, I did it, but that wasn't didn't
35:49
necessarily mean it was a good fit for my personality, what I
35:51
like doing. Sure.
35:53
I mean, A-Team having partners as you do now, you got any
35:57
thoughts on business partnerships?
35:59
I mean, what makes a partnership work?
36:02
I asked that because I've had business partners and it didn't
36:05
work. I must have made, I don't know
36:08
if I made a mistake or I made a wrong choice, but choosing that
36:11
person, you know that you're going to, it's a little bit like
36:14
a marriage, right? You've got shared accounts,
36:16
you've got shared decisions for the future.
36:19
There's a, a runway. So how do?
36:21
You different interests. Yeah, I've had business partners
36:25
and it's not worked. I've had to buy a business
36:28
partner out of this business before because we just he he and
36:31
I couldn't work together in a positive way and to deliver good
36:35
results. So I ended up buying him out.
36:38
But that that's you know, how do you know if you found the right
36:42
lady to be your wife or you're the right guy to be your husband
36:45
or whatever You you don't know right.
36:48
And you think it all looks good. And I think you have, you can
36:51
check the list. This, this go around here.
36:54
I have two partners that have already been successful in their
36:58
careers. And you mentioned that.
37:00
And I think that takes a lot of pressure off versus if we were
37:03
3rd 230 year olds or 330 year olds and we got to, you know,
37:07
put a roof over everybody's head, got to provide school
37:10
lunches or whatever. And you know, we have that.
37:12
There's a different sense of urgency and a different set of
37:16
needs with this. All of us are, you know, older,
37:21
have other revenue streams or whatever.
37:24
So this was just a, a thing of that.
37:25
We wanted to be together and do a deal together and share a lot
37:30
of like interest. I think the biggest thing is
37:32
100% integrity across the board from the guys.
37:36
I like, you know, we have each other's back and, and that's, I
37:40
think that's important for spouse being, you know, in a
37:42
relationship, But I, I think that really helps us this time
37:46
around was we were all at a different point in our careers
37:50
and. Yeah, that's.
37:52
Good luck. I don't think that's.
37:54
You know what I mean? Sure.
37:56
You know, I mentioned my business partner that failed and
37:58
part of it was because we were great partners.
38:01
And then he found out he was having a kid and his perspective
38:05
changed and his priorities changed and being part of a
38:08
risky startup wasn't as exciting.
38:11
You know, your priorities change, but that wasn't
38:14
something that going into it at the time, I had thought about,
38:17
you know, what happens when our perspectives on life change.
38:21
But there's all all of these challenges in in business.
38:25
And I think that's kind of what makes it exciting too.
38:27
I mean, that one didn't work out.
38:29
But but at the same time, you know, not having sports for
38:33
myself anymore, I really struggled to find a place to be
38:36
competitive and a place to, you know, put that energy that I had
38:43
as a young person with both knees and ankles, which I don't,
38:47
you know, have any more. And so being an entrepreneur or
38:51
trying to do new things kind of satiates that itch.
38:54
And you got to find somebody if you're going to have a partner
38:57
who can can work on that same wavelength to some extent.
39:00
Yeah. And I think the other two things
39:02
to quick say is, you know, entrepreneurs always it's going
39:05
to work and that's how we that's how we're wired.
39:08
But you also have to plan. But if it fails or what if
39:11
somebody all of a sudden has a kid and needs to get out, you
39:14
need to have plan the exit for anybody in a way that you can
39:18
equally get people in and out of the relationship or the
39:21
partnership easily without losing a friend or whatever.
39:25
So I think you got a plan for not failure, but plan for an
39:28
exit. I think that's just, you know,
39:31
and it's hard. And the other part would be you
39:33
got to you got to build into the partnership.
39:35
All right, when get all all the chips are on the table, who gets
39:38
the last call? Who gets to make the final
39:40
decision? And if you're fifty 50s or
39:43
there's four partners at all at 25% you, you're going to get to
39:47
situations where you're all going to disagree, but then
39:49
you're stuck because nobody wants to you know who's.
39:52
So with this partnership, you know, the buck stops at my table
39:57
and that allows me to continue to move forward And and that's
40:01
important because. Speed is everything today,
40:04
right? Then I'm sure I made plenty of
40:07
mistakes along the way, but at the same time, I'm least able to
40:10
make a decision and move forward because no decision is also no
40:13
decision is also a decision, right?
40:15
So if we're all at an impasse and we don't launch a product or
40:18
we don't hire somebody or whatever, then we're making a
40:21
decision to do nothing, which is also, you know, sometimes a
40:25
really bad decision. So I think, you know, my advice
40:28
would be set it up so that it's 5149 or whatever, then at least
40:33
somebody can make the final. Call.
40:35
Where were you 10 years ago, Jess?
40:38
We were 5050 partners and that ended up being the problem in
40:41
the long run. There was no exit strategy
40:44
because we were young and optimistic and we thought, well,
40:46
this will last forever. Right.
40:48
I've done that myself, or three times.
40:50
We'll be best friends forever. I, I, we're coming up on 40
40:56
minutes. I really appreciate your time.
40:58
I know it goes by so quick and it just means we have to get
41:02
together to talk again someday, please.
41:04
But I want to make sure I ask you about something really
41:07
important here, which is there's a story about a tattoo.
41:14
What's, what's the background on this?
41:16
And my understanding is you have a tattoo that is company based.
41:20
Yes, well, there was one year, one shoot, it must have been 18
41:27
or 19. And I don't have any ink on me.
41:30
And one of one of our wonderful employees, Zach, he was a, he
41:36
was our, you know, ran a print shop and then he did a lot of
41:39
marketing, product packaging for us and stuff.
41:41
But he was also a tattoo artist. So I made some silly comment and
41:45
I said, hey, if we hit this sales number, I'll get a tattoo.
41:49
And I think that was all the motivation the team needed.
41:53
And they went after that number pretty good.
41:55
And so they got it. And my my wife was like, are you
41:59
going to get a head tattoo? I go, this is part of integrity
42:01
and leadership. I said I wouldn't, so I'm going
42:03
to. And he put a Brew Trek Ted logo
42:08
on my ankle and I got my first ink.
42:10
And he was not a gun. He was a poke guy.
42:14
Oh boy, yeah. And so it took forever and he
42:19
put it on. It was a Christmas time and we
42:20
knew we were going to make the number for the year.
42:22
So we had a bowling party. So I said, don't tell anybody
42:26
that I already got the tattoo because they, I'm sure they were
42:28
all going to ask me in January, get the tattoo.
42:30
But I did it in advance because I knew we made the number.
42:33
And so we go to the bowling alley, we're bowling and then
42:36
the 5th frame or whatever, I roll up my pant leg, both my
42:39
pant legs and bold and just let them all fit, see it.
42:43
And they were all like, because it was that day, they were all
42:46
just like, that's fabulous. And so that's the tattoo story.
42:51
Tattooing your brand on you is is a level of commitment.
42:54
I haven't quite gotten to that that point yet, although maybe I
42:57
could get a coffee cup at some point.
42:59
But you could if you if like there was some big, big hairy
43:02
goal that you set out there for your team and you all engaged
43:05
and you got it done. It's I, I wear with pride.
43:07
I'm very proud of my team for their ability to get something
43:11
done. And that sets you down the
43:13
rabbit hole, right? 20-30 tattoos since then I
43:16
assume. I have one other tattoo and
43:18
that's just a memory of my wife and that's it.
43:23
So I have two I think I've done. Behind you there is what in
43:28
Wisconsin we'd call a mountain, and in Montana I think might
43:31
just be a hill. Hill, IT You mentioned early on
43:35
in our chat about the outdoors, you know, where coffee and tech
43:39
and the outdoors come together. How do you look at your company
43:43
as being kind of a step on people's path to respecting
43:46
nature a little bit more or appreciating that?
43:49
And you know, we use the word sustainable a lot in this
43:53
industry, in particular coffee. You know, how does that, how
43:58
does that thought go into the decisions you're making for the
44:00
products you're putting out? Well, it's in my decision
44:04
process, but it's really in the team's DNA.
44:06
And we have a lot of, I mean, everybody here seems to be an
44:10
outdoor enthusiast. They're coffee enthusiasts,
44:12
they're music enthusiasts, and they're dog enthusiasts.
44:14
Those afforded things are kind of really common.
44:16
And if you walk through our office, you'd see all of those.
44:19
We're literally right off my left, I'm pointing here, we're
44:22
on the Blackfoot River. We had 21 bighorn sheep down on
44:27
the river yesterday morning when we came to work getting a drink.
44:31
So it's right in front of us and the in the Blackfoot River
44:34
confluences with the Clark Fork just downstream about a mile, it
44:40
is right on top of us here. And we, you know, we give to the
44:45
Conservation Alliance, We're part of the Backcountry hunters
44:47
and anglers. We let all the nonprofits use
44:50
our meeting space here to have meetings, you know, 'cause it's
44:55
a beautiful outdoor. So you're literally you can
44:57
throw a rock even if even if you got a bad arm, you can throw a
45:01
rock into the river here. And it's, it's, it's in our DNA.
45:05
We're very fortunate to live and didn't have an office like right
45:08
on right in the mountains. I mean, we're in the the gaps of
45:12
the mountains here and it's fabulous.
45:15
I just drove through Montana and, you know, we traveled along
45:20
the highway there, but along the Yellowstone, you know, kind of
45:22
back and forth the whole way. And, and I love Montana as a
45:27
place to to visit and it's a beautiful spot.
45:30
What I really noticed though, is that when I drove from Wisconsin
45:34
through Minnesota and North Dakota, that was one day.
45:37
And then when I drove from the east side of Montana to the
45:40
middle of Montana, that was another day.
45:44
So you have this just this great, this great big epic
45:47
landscape that's obviously, you know, been part of every Western
45:51
movie in in along with Utah there anything I I should say?
45:57
What what comes next? What's the future for planetary
46:00
design? And you know what's the future
46:02
for you? Yeah, what's the three-year,
46:05
what's the five year? I, you know, I think in our
46:07
company here, you know, where the the wheels, the noses up the
46:11
planes off the ground. I just would like to see us, you
46:14
know, put some nice growth together and continue to grow
46:17
globally. We're, you know, we got a
46:18
warehouse in Netherlands and warehouse in Canada, warehouse
46:20
China. We're just trying to grow,
46:23
measure growth and just do it the right way and do it
46:25
according to our ethos and how we want to conduct ourselves.
46:30
I got to work on a succession plan to figure out who's going
46:33
to, you know, take the wheels. I've thought about Esops.
46:36
I've looked into that and, you know, can the, can the employees
46:39
buy the business? My children don't want to be
46:42
involved. So, and I'm not, I'm long in the
46:46
tooth here at 62 years old. So it's, you know, that's the
46:50
next three years is going to be a lot of fun for me.
46:52
I, I think our team's in place and they can run the business.
46:56
It's just, you know, can I set the vision and the strategy of
46:58
where we want to go and try to figure out a way to get the
47:03
right people in the place. Either, you know, we sell part
47:06
of the company to them or whatever we do.
47:08
I got to figure that out. And I'm not giving you a no
47:11
answer. I just on my To Do List and I
47:15
think planetary design's got lots of runway and as people
47:18
discover who we are and what we're about, I mean, you know, I
47:21
could talk to you about sustainability.
47:23
I kind of answered your question just about outdoors, but how we
47:26
build our stuff, you know, our stuff comes in a cotton bag.
47:30
So you can go refill, refill at the coffee shop.
47:33
So you don't even have to use, you know, just go into your
47:35
coffee local coffee shop and put the coffee right in there off
47:37
the roaster. We don't need to kill a plat,
47:39
you know, a coffee bag. We've thought through all of
47:42
those things and you don't need a paper filter when you make
47:44
brew with a French press. And so that's what we're, you
47:47
know, we're trying to do all those things and still make a
47:50
fantastic cup of coffee. And because coffee is a big part
47:53
of everybody's life mostly. And yeah, I got AI got a fun
47:57
three years, five years ahead of me of figuring out, you know,
47:59
how to do the right thing with all the team that's built this
48:02
business. And and I think my goal
48:06
personally is I own a piece of dirt again.
48:07
And I own a little piece so I can drive a tractor around in
48:10
circles and feed a feed a pig and feed a cow and watch the
48:16
mountains and just enjoy Montana.
48:19
So that's that's my goal. The next three to five years is
48:22
don't some dirt and you know I can get out of everybody's hair
48:25
and just go putter around something.
48:27
It sounds quite lovely and you know I'm not doing anything.
48:30
If you need a successor this this show is not going to last
48:34
forever. Get back right up here in
48:35
Montana and we've got lots of fun ahead and we have AI mean
48:41
I've said it a million times. We have a wonderful team and
48:44
they're great people and opportunities present themselves
48:47
all the time. So it's get yourself up here and
48:50
take a look at us. When you're when you're out and
48:53
about in in Bonner or Missoula and you stop into a coffee shop,
48:57
what do you order? I ordered it this morning.
49:00
I added Americana posh chocolate.
49:02
So Americana is usually my go to.
49:06
If they have drip coffee and I'm kind of in a hurry, I'll do a
49:08
drip just to get get out of their hair.
49:09
But those are my 2 and I no sugar, no cream.
49:12
Unlike my stepdad, who was balancing the, you know, this
49:17
gosh coffee that almost looked like milk.
49:18
But no, I'm just a black coffee guy and my kids are black coffee
49:23
drinkers. So hopefully that's a good sign
49:26
of parenting. Maybe, I don't know.
49:28
Well, I'm sure it certainly is. You know, I, I didn't drink
49:32
coffee until I was 30, so I should call my parents and say
49:34
what's going on. Jess, I really just appreciate
49:38
the time and you talking a little bit about
49:40
entrepreneurship with us. And I'm sure we've got a lot to
49:42
learn from your journey as well as, you know, excitement about
49:46
where where you guys are going. So thank you for being on the
49:49
show. Well, stay in touch and we, you
49:51
know, and if you ever do get through Montana, your listeners
49:54
get here. We, we love having company and
49:56
showing them what we do. It's a great place to roll in
49:59
with a, you know, a sprinter van, open the door and sit there
50:01
and have a sandwich and watch the river flow by.
50:04
It's we're very, very lucky and we love having company and
50:08
letting letting people hear our story.
50:11
You mentioned salmon. I don't know if you saw this
50:14
mug. I can't see where I am in.
50:15
This. Oh yeah, There you go.
50:16
So this is my new salmon mug. I'm very excited about it.
50:21
So each side has got a different little salmon design.
50:24
Fabulous, that's a good looking mug.
50:27
Jess, I'm going to hit the stop button here.
51:07
The. You're, I know you've been
51:24
between Montana and Los Angeles. We can get into that.
51:26
But I'm curious, do you have a team you root for?
51:30
For basketball. Yeah, where's your allegiances
51:32
lie? Well, the the funnest story is
51:37
this last this last national championship, Houston, that that
51:41
guy used to coach Kelvin Sampson used to coach in Montana.
51:45
And I had a try out for him. So I was super excited that I
51:48
sat across from that coach and he's, you know, now at the upper
51:52
echelons of basketball. And then Florida, the head coach
51:56
for Florida is one of my dear friend's son in And those are
52:04
the only two coaches that I know of the NCAA, you know, one way
52:07
or the other. And to have them both be in the
52:09
national championship game was really surreal.
52:12
Like how often does that happen, right?
52:15
That was a very top of the food chain non answer answer there
52:19
Jess. I appreciate how you didn't give
52:21
me. This is my team.
52:23
I cheer for everyone. But there's a funny part about
52:27
that is. That if you.
52:28
Grew up in Montana. You get to pick because we don't
52:31
have team. We know we don't have a pro pro
52:33
team. So I'm a Pittsburgh Steeler fan
52:35
'cause that's who was really good when I was a kid growing
52:37
up. And I don't watch the NBA.
52:41
I've kind of soured on that. But I, I'll watch the NCAA and
52:45
I'm, I'll take any, I'm the Cinderella guy, so whoever
52:48
shouldn't win is not going to root for.
52:50
But just last year happened to be an unusual year.
52:52
But I I'm probably more of a Florida fan only 'cause, you
52:56
know, my dear friend's son-in-law is the head coach and
52:59
he is just rocketed through the ranks and he runs a really nice
53:03
program. And so that's what I'm rooting
53:05
for today. But if he moves, then I'll be
53:06
rooting for wherever he goes. Here's my non answer boss.
53:09
I like it.