Latest / Not Your Grandma’s Cancer Show / From orgasm to fatigue - we answer more sex after cancer questions

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From orgasm to fatigue - we answer more sex after cancer questions · Not Your Grandma’s Cancer Show

0:00
Speaker0: From Shine Cancer Support, this is Not Your Grandma's
0:08
Speaker0: Hi, I'm Tatum Duroc, and we're diving into the
0:12
Speaker0: second part of our secret Shine sex questions.
0:16
Speaker0: Getting a cancer diagnosis can really have an impact on your sex life,
0:20
Speaker0: and we wanted to answer those real questions from all of
0:24
Speaker0: you, so that's what we're doing today. Zoe is a psychotherapist who specializes
0:29
Speaker0: in sex and relationship therapy, and And she's
0:32
Speaker0: back again to answer your questions. Let's get into orgasms.
0:36
Speaker0: This is Not Your Grandma's Cancer Show.
0:08
Speaker1: Not Your
0:40
Speaker1: Grandma's Cancer Show. Welcome back, Zoe. Great to be back. We had
0:43
Speaker1: a number of questions about orgasms
0:47
Speaker1: not feeling the same. What's going on with that, Zoe?
0:51
Speaker1: Because our bodies have been through so much after cancer, there can be so
0:55
Speaker1: many different reasons for that. So one of the
0:58
Speaker1: reasons might be if people are now in a, in like a medical or surgical
1:02
Speaker1: menopause. So, you know, if someone's body has gone into that, then it
1:06
Speaker1: can be really a different experience with sensations,
1:10
Speaker1: with orgasm, with all sorts of things. So I think that is definitely
1:14
Speaker1: something that can affect it. All the sort of grueling treatments that people
1:17
Speaker1: go through, you know, our bodies, you know, or surgeries or
1:22
Speaker1: radiation or chemo, our bodies are really going to respond and
1:26
Speaker1: feel different. And that again can affect sensation,
1:30
Speaker1: it can affect nerves. It can affect all these things that give us
1:33
Speaker1: feeling. One of the main things is just feeling
1:37
Speaker1: like emotionally safe within yourself. And once you've been through something
1:41
Speaker1: really traumatic, it can just take time for your body to sort of come
1:45
Speaker1: out of this, this like nervous state activation and
1:50
Speaker1: needs to sort of like come back down. And I think what can be affected
1:53
Speaker1: is our body. And it's, it's sort of about one,
1:56
Speaker1: allowing us to sort of come back down from that sort of activated
2:00
Speaker1: state, but also like relearning, like, what is it that I
2:04
Speaker1: need now? Or how do I, you know, need to be touched? Or it's
2:08
Speaker1: just working with difference. Oh, working with difference.
2:11
Speaker1: I like that. I know that for me, I was really
2:15
Speaker1: scared it was never ever going to change. And sometimes
2:19
Speaker1: it would take a really long time to get there.
2:23
Speaker1: And then when I got there, it wasn't worth it,
2:27
Speaker1: which is a really hard thing to then be like,
2:30
Speaker1: do I bother again? How would you begin to work
2:34
Speaker1: with that? I think it's really starting from basics. It's starting from the beginning,
2:38
Speaker1: and it's just, you know, spending time with your own body
2:42
Speaker1: and exploring your own body again. Something I often ask
2:46
Speaker1: people to do is something called pleasure mapping. And pleasure mapping
2:50
Speaker1: is basically, you know, either with your hand, with like a
2:53
Speaker1: small vibrator or a toy, anything, and it's just touching
2:58
Speaker1: all over your body with like different pressures,
3:01
Speaker1: you know, light, soft, maybe vibrations,
3:05
Speaker1: and it's just feeling like all over your body about what feels
3:09
Speaker1: good and what doesn't, because that might have changed. Oh,
3:13
Speaker1: I mean, I like that it kind of takes a little bit of the focus
3:17
Speaker1: off the actual orgasm part and kind
3:21
Speaker1: of On like where else is pleasurable.
3:25
Speaker1: And actually, if you share with someone another spot
3:29
Speaker1: that you really enjoy, that can be another
3:34
Speaker1: form of intimacy. Can orgasms come
3:37
Speaker1: back in the way they were before? It's patience.
3:41
Speaker1: It's patience with your body and with that experience. I think it
3:44
Speaker1: is also just learning and really understanding what your
3:49
Speaker1: body has been through, and that this is like a really difficult thing for your
3:52
Speaker1: body. I think what can also happen is the more we sort of like put
3:56
Speaker1: pressure or focus on something, the harder it can be.
4:00
Speaker1: Like this sort of performative performance anxiety can come along.
4:04
Speaker1: So, you know, if we're really wanting to orgasm and we're really thinking about it
4:07
Speaker1: and we're really quite distracted by it, that can also make the
4:11
Speaker1: experience more difficult, you know, because we're not present.
4:16
Speaker1: And often with orgasm, with pleasure, it really is
4:20
Speaker1: about being present and being relaxed. This is
4:23
Speaker1: maybe not advice, um,
4:27
Speaker1: but sometimes faking an orgasm freed me
4:31
Speaker1: up to then have a real one because all the pressure
4:35
Speaker1: was off. And actually, sometimes the thing of
4:39
Speaker1: faking it gives you like this permission to hype
4:43
Speaker1: things up. And I just wondered, is that something
4:47
Speaker1: that you've heard of other people doing? Yeah, I mean, I've definitely
4:51
Speaker1: heard of other people doing that, and I think, you know, it's really great if
4:54
Speaker1: that worked for you. Um, and I think it is about finding ways
4:59
Speaker1: that help take the pressure away, but I think it's also
5:02
Speaker1: about, you know, being able to have those conversations with partners
5:06
Speaker1: or casual partners about like, this is really difficult for me right now,
5:10
Speaker1: and actually this isn't something that maybe I'm able to
5:14
Speaker1: achieve the same way at the moment or feel the same way at the moment.
5:17
Speaker1: And You know, this is what I need. And I think really being able to
5:21
Speaker1: be honest and have that communication can also really help. We had
5:24
Speaker1: a man send in a question that basically said
5:28
Speaker1: fatigue is impacting his stamina,
5:32
Speaker1: and so he's finding that he needs to take breaks. And he's
5:36
Speaker1: thinking, is this reducing the fun,
5:40
Speaker1: the pleasure for his partner? What would you say?
5:44
Speaker1: I would say, you know, where possible to have that conversation, just be open
5:48
Speaker1: and honest about what, you know, you're experiencing, because it might be
5:52
Speaker1: that you adapt what you do together so that it, you know,
5:56
Speaker1: it doesn't affect your fatigue, or it does feel more comfortable,
5:59
Speaker1: or it feels better for you. You know, maybe it's about at
6:04
Speaker1: this moment in time while fatigue is bad, you know, it's about different types
6:07
Speaker1: of pleasure. Maybe it's about there being you know, a shorter
6:11
Speaker1: duration of sex. Maybe it's not about like penis and vagina sex, maybe it's
6:16
Speaker1: about other forms of sex— oral sex, touching, you know,
6:19
Speaker1: things that you— that can be done while feeling quite fatigued.
6:23
Speaker1: And so I would, I would definitely say about communication, I don't think it means
6:27
Speaker1: that somebody isn't having pleasure just because
6:31
Speaker1: it isn't lasting as long. I think often when people,
6:35
Speaker1: you know, share about masturbation, they can often you know,
6:38
Speaker1: pleasure themselves within minutes, like very quickly. Mhm.
6:41
Speaker1: And, you know, it isn't necessarily about time, it's about pleasure. It's about
6:46
Speaker1: you and the other person having pleasure. So however you get there,
6:50
Speaker1: you know, as long as it's consensual and you're enjoying it, then it's,
6:53
Speaker1: it's fine. So I think, you know, we don't need to get fixed on how
6:57
Speaker1: long things are lasting, or if we need to take breaks, I think that's completely
7:01
Speaker1: fine. I think it's just about finding what works And realizing that
7:04
Speaker1: there isn't— there isn't no right way to have sex,
7:08
Speaker1: you know? Like, we get to make those rules, what works for
7:12
Speaker1: us. When I read that question, I was thinking about it. I was like,
7:15
Speaker1: it almost sounds a bit tantric. Yeah,
7:19
Speaker1: it almost sounds like you, you might be tapping into some ancient,
7:24
Speaker1: you know, kind of delaying and building. I think
7:28
Speaker1: some people would actually love a break. Definitely. I agree with that.
7:32
Speaker1: And have maybe never explored asking for that before,
7:36
Speaker1: because there is often so much momentum
7:40
Speaker1: to get to the destination that
7:44
Speaker1: actually trying this, like, very different pace,
7:48
Speaker1: this different practice, could be really
7:53
Speaker1: more enjoyable. Completely. Yeah,
7:56
Speaker1: and it might even be something that you, like you're saying,
7:59
Speaker1: you choose to adapt even after our fatigue is better, because it
8:04
Speaker1: could be really exciting. And, you know, there could be a buildup there of this
8:08
Speaker1: sort of like stopping and starting. I completely agree. It's something
8:11
Speaker1: that when I first went from, as you were saying,
8:15
Speaker1: like time isn't everything, when I went from sleeping with men to
8:18
Speaker1: sleeping with women, very different lengths of time involved,
8:23
Speaker1: and actually taking a break and going back into it,
8:26
Speaker1: not unusual. So I think what might be different
8:30
Speaker1: to what it was for you before, you might find
8:35
Speaker1: a new landscape. And we dove into orgasms,
8:39
Speaker1: but actually 1 in 10 women have never had one. So it
8:43
Speaker1: might be that this could even be a time
8:47
Speaker1: to explore and maybe find them
8:50
Speaker1: in a way that they haven't been there before.
8:54
Speaker1: Yeah, this is a great time to really reassess sex
9:00
Speaker1: with you and your partner, and what you're doing, and what you'd like to do,
9:03
Speaker1: and what you'd like to change, or what you'd like to explore. So this perfectly
9:07
Speaker1: leads on to the next question, which is how
9:11
Speaker1: to make it sexy. So we've got
9:15
Speaker1: lubes and creams and different
9:19
Speaker1: positions, How to make all of
9:22
Speaker1: this sexy when it can seem a bit functional,
9:26
Speaker1: that we now need to do it this way, or it can seem
9:29
Speaker1: a bit, um, medical in terms of these new sex
9:34
Speaker1: aids. So how to do that? And someone
9:38
Speaker1: did ask, and not just crack up laughing.
9:42
Speaker1: I want to answer the question, but what I definitely want to say first is
9:45
Speaker1: that it's okay if it doesn't feel sexy,
9:48
Speaker1: you know. I just, I just want to put it that out there because I
9:51
Speaker1: think after cancer and a diagnosis, it isn't necessarily a sexy
9:55
Speaker1: time. And I think it's, it's okay if things aren't
9:59
Speaker1: feeling sexy. But yes, wanting to make things feel sexy when all these sort of
10:02
Speaker1: new things were around. And I think, you know, I tell everyone to use lube
10:05
Speaker1: even if there isn't a, like, necessarily a need for it.
10:09
Speaker1: Like, lube just makes things better. So Yep, loads of
10:13
Speaker1: lube. I think again it's about thinking about
10:17
Speaker1: what is it that, that makes you feel really good.
10:21
Speaker1: And it might, you know, yeah, okay, it might be lingerie, it might be,
10:25
Speaker1: um, fake tan, it might— but it might not be something physical
10:29
Speaker1: like that. It might be something completely different. Like, you know, I, I feel
10:33
Speaker1: really good when I've cleaned the house and there are no jobs left,
10:37
Speaker1: you know, right? And the bin's taken out and the kids are in bed.
10:40
Speaker1: That is what me feel like really in the zone,
10:44
Speaker1: sexy, and ready, you know. So I think it's about like— we call
10:48
Speaker1: it conditions for good sex, but I think it's about not just right
10:52
Speaker1: there in the moment, like everything that makes you feel good, you know. Is it
10:56
Speaker1: like having a good night's sleep the night before? You know, what makes me feel
11:00
Speaker1: really good and really sexy? Oh, conditions for good sex,
11:03
Speaker1: I love that. I, I raised my eyes when you said
11:07
Speaker1: about a clean house because I can absolutely do it in chaos,
11:12
Speaker1: but I can completely You see, that is a
11:16
Speaker1: form of calm, isn't it? Like, that's a form of a little bit
11:19
Speaker1: of control, a little bit of like, okay, I'm ready.
11:23
Speaker1: I have very different ones to that. I'm sure lots
11:27
Speaker1: of people do have different ones. I mean, it comes from Emily Nagoski's,
11:31
Speaker1: um, Come As You Are book, which is, which is amazing. And,
11:35
Speaker1: and something else I was going to say as well is also about like,
11:37
Speaker1: you know, what feels comfortable. If, if there's a position that
11:42
Speaker1: is causing pain or feels awkward, that isn't going to
11:45
Speaker1: help you feel in the mood or desire for sex.
11:49
Speaker1: You know, our— we have an arousal circuit. The minute we feel pain,
11:53
Speaker1: our arousal circuit breaks, which means basically psychologically,
11:57
Speaker1: emotionally, physiologically, we are not in that zone for sex,
12:01
Speaker1: like, to continue. So we lose that arousal, we lose
12:05
Speaker1: that desire. So it's really thinking about, like,
12:07
Speaker1: comfort, like, what is not painful, what is comfortable,
12:11
Speaker1: what position works better. And it might be that you
12:15
Speaker1: and your partner need to try loads of different positions until
12:18
Speaker1: you work out what that position is. I find it, one, very hard
12:22
Speaker1: to communicate anything that my partner
12:26
Speaker1: is doing that I don't want them to do verbally.
12:30
Speaker1: And so in my last relationship,
12:34
Speaker1: I found it really hard to say, that's painful, because I felt like
12:39
Speaker1: That was on me. And instead,
12:43
Speaker1: I just did a double tap, which just meant,
12:46
Speaker1: not now. Like, let's switch this up. Mm-hmm. And actually,
12:50
Speaker1: having a nonverbal way of doing it gave me kind
12:54
Speaker1: of a sense of control. And not— and so I wasn't worried.
12:59
Speaker1: And I wasn't worried that I was— that
13:03
Speaker1: in the middle of it, that, I was going to have a conversation because that
13:07
Speaker1: for me doesn't work. So have you heard of other ways
13:11
Speaker1: that people have communicated in ways that
13:15
Speaker1: just work in the moment? Like, so pain
13:19
Speaker1: has just happened or something's uncomfortable.
13:23
Speaker1: What do you do then? It's a subject that is difficult for a lot
13:27
Speaker1: of people. I think that's a lovely example of like this double-tak.
13:30
Speaker1: switch things up. Your, your, you know, your person knows that it's,
13:33
Speaker1: it's time to change. I have some people that use words.
13:36
Speaker1: They will, they will choose words or colors, you know, say a color
13:40
Speaker1: or say a word. And I have worked with people that,
13:43
Speaker1: yeah, have similar to you, like not a tap, but like some kind of like
13:47
Speaker1: signal, you know, a nonverbal signal that, that means
13:51
Speaker1: something to both of them so that they, they know.
13:54
Speaker1: We often have this expectation of how sex should be, like what we see
13:58
Speaker1: in films, what we see on the TV, how, how it's talked about,
14:01
Speaker1: how we're conditioned as society that sex should be, you know, how many times
14:06
Speaker1: we should be having sex a week, how often, you know, it's just
14:10
Speaker1: all a myth. And it really is about you and
14:14
Speaker1: whoever the person you're having sex with, you know, being able
14:17
Speaker1: to create what you want, you know, what works.
14:21
Speaker1: It's really just seeing it as our goal is pleasure.
14:25
Speaker1: It's about being pleasurable. It's about connecting. It's about being together.
14:29
Speaker1: And it's about doing it the way that works for us. We often talk
14:33
Speaker1: about post-cancer, that communication of what
14:37
Speaker1: do we need, even from a friend. Like, do we need to be held?
14:40
Speaker1: Do we need to be heard? Do we need advice?
14:45
Speaker1: And actually, if we can create a little bit of a shorthand,
14:49
Speaker1: then we can let, like, the people closest
14:52
Speaker1: to us know, or that we don't know what we need, right? So we can
14:56
Speaker1: go, ah, there's this thing and I don't know what I need.
14:59
Speaker1: But I maybe don't need advice, right? And there are shorthands
15:03
Speaker1: for that. So it might be, yeah, I just need to vent right now,
15:07
Speaker1: or distract the hell out of me right now.
15:10
Speaker1: And actually coming up with a little bit of a shorthand before having
15:14
Speaker1: sex— because going to one of the questions that we
15:17
Speaker1: got from a partner was, I'm really scared I'm gonna
15:22
Speaker1: hurt them. Because we are so often we
15:26
Speaker1: really want to please, um, we do, that there
15:30
Speaker1: can be this like holding back that happens,
15:34
Speaker1: and then the other person sees it as maybe they're just
15:38
Speaker1: not that into me anymore. If we can, whether it be a
15:42
Speaker1: color, like, you know, which means I'm having a
15:45
Speaker1: great time, go for it, or a tap or
15:49
Speaker1: a signal that means like kind of your version
15:53
Speaker1: of what it is that you need in that moment, but setting it up beforehand
15:59
Speaker1: can make such a difference. You know, sex is really vulnerable.
16:03
Speaker1: Like, even if it is just casual sex, you know, like,
16:06
Speaker1: we are giving ourselves to another person. We are seen in a really,
16:10
Speaker1: you know, vulnerable place, and we can often
16:14
Speaker1: be holding things about worrying about being rejected and worrying about
16:17
Speaker1: all sorts of things. That's really normal. But I think,
16:20
Speaker1: yeah, like, if this conversation can happen beforehand. And,
16:24
Speaker1: you know, if that conversation is really difficult to have, that you find somebody like
16:27
Speaker1: me or something, you know, that does what I do and have a conversation or
16:31
Speaker1: have a few sessions with a therapist, it can be really helpful in,
16:35
Speaker1: in really, yeah, helping your sex life and confidence and
16:40
Speaker1: connection. I know some people have used like traffic lights,
16:44
Speaker1: you know, and kind of like go, go, go, you know,
16:47
Speaker1: green, that's what We're absolutely— we're on,
16:50
Speaker1: we're in. How that inside communication,
16:54
Speaker1: however you do it, is a form of intimacy as
16:58
Speaker1: well, because it's a language that you've developed just
17:02
Speaker1: with your partner, just for that moment. Yeah.
17:05
Speaker1: And so whatever is being communicated
17:09
Speaker1: then becomes really special, because we
17:13
Speaker1: want to know what our partner is enjoying, right? We do.
17:16
Speaker1: And when we get confirmation, That can be the
17:20
Speaker1: most exciting thing in the world. Yeah, and it
17:24
Speaker1: can be a real turn-on for people as well, knowing that they are pleasuring their
17:28
Speaker1: partner. And if we're able to communicate what we like, then we can get more
17:31
Speaker1: of it as well. And that thing of then how to make
17:36
Speaker1: kind of the, the sex aids sexy—
17:40
Speaker1: I was thinking about like those conditions for good
17:43
Speaker1: sex, right? So There's maybe
17:48
Speaker1: a conversation beforehand with your partner,
17:51
Speaker1: um, about it. There's the environment.
17:55
Speaker1: But then maybe these things becoming associated
18:00
Speaker1: with that pleasure. Mm-hmm. And I'm thinking that even
18:04
Speaker1: for yourself— so I had a situation where
18:08
Speaker1: I was dating, um, and I hadn't
18:12
Speaker1: anticipated having sex. And I have a ring
18:16
Speaker1: inside me that I need Because I had my ovaries removed,
18:20
Speaker1: and someone bumped into the ring, and I hadn't mentioned
18:25
Speaker1: it before. And it was this, like, really embarrassing
18:29
Speaker1: moment for a second. And then I went,
18:33
Speaker1: in my mind, no, this ring is what
18:38
Speaker1: lets me have sex. To me, this ring is actually really bloody
18:42
Speaker1: sexy and can be used to enhance sensation.
18:47
Speaker1: So I realized that I didn't need
18:51
Speaker1: any validation from that other person. They didn't even need to see
18:55
Speaker1: it as sexy because to me it already is.
19:00
Speaker1: Yeah. I didn't think I would get to that point. I thought
19:03
Speaker1: I would always feel quite broken and
19:08
Speaker1: walking away from that encounter just feeling like Yeah,
19:12
Speaker1: I don't— I didn't need anything.
19:16
Speaker1: That's actually really hot. I think it is about our
19:20
Speaker1: perspective, you know. I think it's about we have been through something so
19:24
Speaker1: traumatic, something so huge, and things have changed massively
19:29
Speaker1: for, you know, in lots of different ways for,
19:32
Speaker1: for people that have had cancer. And I think,
19:35
Speaker1: you know, of course there is this— I think there is a sense of wanting
19:38
Speaker1: things to be as it was before, you know, when things all worked
19:43
Speaker1: okay and the orgasm was great and there wasn't a ring. But, but actually,
19:47
Speaker1: you know, I think for me as well, I got to a point where it
19:50
Speaker1: was like, actually, like, look, look what my body has got me through,
19:54
Speaker1: you know, like, look what it's carried me through. So yeah, there was a part
19:58
Speaker1: of me that was like, I've gained loads of weight, uh, my breasts are a
20:02
Speaker1: lot smaller now, I'm not sure how I feel about how I look anymore.
20:06
Speaker1: You know, there were all these things in my head that I think was really
20:08
Speaker1: affecting sex. Mm. But then, similar to what you're saying
20:12
Speaker1: about the ring, I was like, hang on a minute, this body
20:16
Speaker1: has got me through cancer, it's got me through surgery, it's got me through chemo,
20:19
Speaker1: it's got me through radiation. And, and of course it took time to
20:23
Speaker1: get there, you know, it took time to get there. But actually, I felt like
20:27
Speaker1: I'm really grateful and proud of this body, and this body can still
20:31
Speaker1: be sexy. Yeah. And it's okay to not
20:35
Speaker1: be at that point. Definitely. But if you have those glimmers,
20:39
Speaker1: those moments, or even knowing that that might happen
20:43
Speaker1: at some point, I think it can kind of keep you going,
20:46
Speaker1: um, through the days. I'm, you know, I've,
20:50
Speaker1: I've talked about this before where I was watching a TV
20:54
Speaker1: show and they started having sex and I was like, ugh.
20:57
Speaker1: I had no interest. I found it boring.
21:00
Speaker1: And, and if someone had said at that
21:04
Speaker1: moment, it's not always going to be like this, you're not actually 105,
21:09
Speaker1: you will find your way back, that would have been really
21:13
Speaker1: nice to know because I was ready to write myself off.
21:18
Speaker1: Definitely. And I think there will probably be people that listen to this podcast who
21:22
Speaker1: are in that space because I've been in that space. And I think even
21:26
Speaker1: if someone had said to me, you know, at that time, it won't always be
21:30
Speaker1: like this, I'm not sure I would have even believed them. Right. Even though it
21:34
Speaker1: would have been lovely to hear it, I agree with you, I'm not sure deep
21:37
Speaker1: down I would have believed them. But now that I'm not in
21:41
Speaker1: that place anymore, and yes, it's taken time,
21:44
Speaker1: I hope that anyone listening to this who might be in that place
21:48
Speaker1: knows that, yes, it is okay that you're in that place right now, and that,
21:51
Speaker1: you know, it really won't always be that way. So thinking
21:55
Speaker1: about that re-sparking, someone wrote
21:59
Speaker1: in a question where they said, I think
22:04
Speaker1: about how to get back into the joy for oneself
22:08
Speaker1: and then a partner, how to cultivate a state of
22:12
Speaker1: eroticism. Um, she says, as Esther Perel uses
22:16
Speaker1: it, as a sense of aliveness, joy,
22:19
Speaker1: How to cultivate a state of eroticism in the sense that
22:22
Speaker1: Esther Perel uses it. So a state of aliveness, joy,
22:27
Speaker1: curiosity, and play. How does
22:30
Speaker1: that question sit with you? So I think that's
22:34
Speaker1: the thing— when things feel really heavy or feel really
22:38
Speaker1: impossible, the pleasure just doesn't even feel like
22:42
Speaker1: it's possible. How do you think about, like,
22:46
Speaker1: getting back into that spark of joy?
22:50
Speaker1: Initially, I think it's just about we have to relearn and get to know
22:54
Speaker1: our bodies again, you know. And I think it does start with self-compassion
22:59
Speaker1: and just giving ourselves time and space to
23:03
Speaker1: really process what we have gone through. I think that is
23:07
Speaker1: firstly really important. I think secondly it's about exploring,
23:11
Speaker1: and it's maybe being open to to different things that you might
23:15
Speaker1: not have done before, in the sense of like,
23:19
Speaker1: what is it that I like? And it might be like
23:23
Speaker1: listening to some audio, um, reading some erotica,
23:26
Speaker1: and it might be self-focused work
23:30
Speaker1: where it looks at like really mindfulness practice
23:33
Speaker1: of, of, um, touching our skin and our bodies in the
23:37
Speaker1: shower and, you know, exploring our genitalia or our
23:42
Speaker1: Erotic zones. I think it's really about being
23:46
Speaker1: open to different things and just
23:50
Speaker1: exploring ourselves and our body and our partners as
23:54
Speaker1: well. Yeah. I think there's something about a
23:58
Speaker1: sense of play in there. How to cultivate
24:03
Speaker1: a sense of playing.
24:06
Speaker1: Play means that sometimes cancer can
24:11
Speaker1: come back into your mind, Right. And if there's a way that
24:14
Speaker1: you can just take a beat, like, that could be a signal,
24:18
Speaker1: like, I just need a beat. I know for me, you know, and I
24:22
Speaker1: know from hearing from other people, that sometimes when someone puts their hand
24:26
Speaker1: on a scar or an area, you can have a sense,
24:29
Speaker1: you can be— you can even have a triggered moment,
24:33
Speaker1: a flashback, in the midst of, you know, this really
24:37
Speaker1: open, vulnerable thing. And suddenly, you're right back into—
24:41
Speaker1: The first time you had a biopsy and you're like, why am I here?
24:45
Speaker1: If there is kind of a signal,
24:48
Speaker1: if there is a sense of play,
24:52
Speaker1: then it stops that being not maybe as serious.
24:56
Speaker1: Like, there is a sense that that can move.
24:59
Speaker1: Someone was telling me that they literally
25:04
Speaker1: cannot, like, do sexy moments They
25:08
Speaker1: find it a real turn-off. And so if someone
25:12
Speaker1: is in the midst of it, it is kind of like, oh,
25:15
Speaker1: whoops, we went off over here. How do they then come back?
25:20
Speaker1: Like, what is a way of landing back into the
25:24
Speaker1: moment? If something happens and it feels difficult, I think it is about having
25:29
Speaker1: a laugh, like laughing it off if you can, and being like, oh,
25:32
Speaker1: like, you know, don't touch me there. Or maybe
25:36
Speaker1: it's about being able to, like, to not take it so, so seriously
25:40
Speaker1: in the moment and be able to be like, okay, that kind of
25:43
Speaker1: went wrong, but let's, let's move on and do something different. I think it's just
25:47
Speaker1: about being able to be
25:51
Speaker1: aware that it doesn't have to be perfect and it doesn't have to be this
25:56
Speaker1: serious way of doing things. It can just be fun
26:00
Speaker1: and playful and it can go wrong and it's okay. Isn't it crazy how,
26:04
Speaker1: like, when sex goes wrong though, like, we so
26:09
Speaker1: go round in circles about what that means?
26:13
Speaker1: Yeah. So just say there is a situation,
26:16
Speaker1: signals were misread, and now both people—
26:20
Speaker1: it's almost like a bit of a standoff. They love each other, or they like
26:24
Speaker1: each other, they love each other, but it's like no one's
26:28
Speaker1: making a first move. Do you find that you work
26:32
Speaker1: with couples that are in that place? Often what I find with the couples
26:35
Speaker1: I work with, everybody is sitting there thinking and feeling the same,
26:39
Speaker1: but it's just not being communicated.
26:43
Speaker1: And, you know, sometimes it really is about talking about things
26:46
Speaker1: and setting things before. Like, I remember having a partner,
26:50
Speaker1: like, within, you know, my cancer experience, and I was like,
26:53
Speaker1: you can't touch my left boob. We can, we can do whatever, but you just
26:56
Speaker1: can't touch my left boob. And that, you know, that was—
26:59
Speaker1: and there were times where, like, by accident, that is what happened, like, in the
27:03
Speaker1: moment. And, you know, I would
27:07
Speaker1: just sort of, like, laugh it off and push their hand away,
27:10
Speaker1: and we would, we would be able to carry on. But also knowing that,
27:13
Speaker1: like, this person is human, and in the moment, you know, it's just,
27:16
Speaker1: like, automatic. So we had a bit of fun with
27:19
Speaker1: it in the end, and it made it a bit more playful about, oh,
27:23
Speaker1: like, I touched your left boob and I shouldn't. Oh, sorry. Like, you know,
27:26
Speaker1: but we're able to carry on. So I think it's,
27:29
Speaker1: it's just about, yeah, allowing for just
27:33
Speaker1: things to be different. Yeah. I know we touched
27:37
Speaker1: on this in the last episode. So we were kind of looking
27:41
Speaker1: at all the different parts of the environment. So there's like,
27:44
Speaker1: you know, what's been going on in the day, maybe what the house looks like,
27:49
Speaker1: maybe what you've read or watched beforehand, the conversations
27:53
Speaker1: that you've had. With your partner. Yeah.
27:56
Speaker1: Really, when you think of all the environmental things, it's kind of amazing it
28:00
Speaker1: goes— ever goes well, right? Like, you know, there's a
28:04
Speaker1: lot that goes into it, really. All of those things in play,
28:08
Speaker1: but then when your body is changed,
28:12
Speaker1: and you want to, like,
28:16
Speaker1: feel that sexiness for you in
28:19
Speaker1: that moment, What are some of the things that people
28:23
Speaker1: do to move in that way that
28:26
Speaker1: works for them? You know, I, I've had people say that yoga
28:31
Speaker1: and, and the positions in yoga can help bring some of that sort of
28:35
Speaker1: sexiness on in the sense of positions and how
28:39
Speaker1: you, um, posture your body. Some people
28:43
Speaker1: want to wear a certain type of, um,
28:46
Speaker1: clothing. in, in the bedroom, you know, if there is a scar or there is
28:49
Speaker1: a missing body part or there's something like that, that actually like
28:53
Speaker1: wearing something helps them feel like that. Some people, you know, are reading like
28:58
Speaker1: erotic romantic novels and that is starting to help
29:02
Speaker1: them feel a bit sexy and try and reconnect with that part of themselves
29:06
Speaker1: again. Some people like rubbing, um,
29:09
Speaker1: cream on their, on their body and just, just getting
29:13
Speaker1: to know their body again and reconnecting with the body and touching their body.
29:17
Speaker1: For me, genuinely, like I started going to the gym, and there was
29:20
Speaker1: something about, like, me, my body, going to the
29:25
Speaker1: gym that was helping me feel so connected to myself.
29:28
Speaker1: Mm-hmm. It really helped increase my, like, desire and
29:32
Speaker1: ability to feel sexy again. So again, it's going to be so
29:36
Speaker1: different for so many different people, but I think
29:39
Speaker1: it, it doesn't have to be something sexual that helps
29:44
Speaker1: you feel sexy. I think it is about just what
29:47
Speaker1: makes you feel good, like what makes you feel joy, what makes you
29:51
Speaker1: feel pleasure. And when I say pleasure, it doesn't have to be sexual pleasure,
29:55
Speaker1: any pleasure. I think these are the really important things to think about.
29:59
Speaker1: Yeah, I love that. And for some people it's dancing,
30:03
Speaker1: um, and yeah, it's those
30:07
Speaker1: moments that you feel Like
30:11
Speaker1: you've tapped into just something about yourself.
30:14
Speaker1: And, and it's interesting how partners
30:19
Speaker1: will relate to that or not,
30:23
Speaker1: because actually, when you are feeling yourself,
30:28
Speaker1: sometimes you don't even need to say anything. They're just like, hello.
30:32
Speaker1: Like, there's just a different energy that you're walking with.
30:36
Speaker1: Yes. You know, if we think of pheromones— and this
30:40
Speaker1: is the thing about sex that I'm so glad
30:44
Speaker1: that we did this podcast today, because there's something about sex
30:48
Speaker1: that we don't always know why it happens. Like, almost like a radio
30:51
Speaker1: frequency. We know it carries all these messages,
30:55
Speaker1: but we don't really know how it works. Mm-hmm.
30:59
Speaker1: And there's something about when it doesn't work that we have to then refine
31:03
Speaker1: the connection. So, okay, what does an antenna do? What does,
31:07
Speaker1: you know, all the things in a radio station to send
31:11
Speaker1: that sound out. What are the
31:15
Speaker1: components that are needed? And when one
31:19
Speaker1: of those is kind of kicked back in,
31:22
Speaker1: that message is going out and that magic can
31:27
Speaker1: then happen again. So, I really would love to hear how
31:30
Speaker1: that goes for you. Which component works well?
31:35
Speaker1: for you, you know, is it setting the environment? Is it those chats
31:39
Speaker1: with your partner? Is it dancing yourself or going to
31:44
Speaker1: the gym or finding a really delicious book to
31:48
Speaker1: read? Feel free to get in touch, um,
31:52
Speaker1: at Shine. We're going to do another sex session at Shine
31:56
Speaker1: Connect in October. It is a conference
32:00
Speaker1: for young adults and it's in London. So go to
32:04
Speaker1: the Shine website, shinecancersociety.org.uk. And if you're watching this on YouTube, support.org, check out
32:08
Speaker1: Shine Connect. Me and Zoe will be there if you have
32:11
Speaker1: questions and you're like, this podcast didn't touch them.
32:16
Speaker1: Come along. You will have an option to send your
32:20
Speaker1: question in advance and also anonymously if you
32:23
Speaker1: like. Let us know on the day because we really want
32:27
Speaker1: to answer the questions that you have.
32:30
Speaker1: Zoe, thank you so much for being on the podcast. Thank you.
32:33
Speaker1: Thank you, Tatum. It's great. It's been great. Thank you to Radio Facilities
32:37
Speaker1: for sponsoring our podcast, and thank you to all of you listening.
32:41
Speaker1: Thank you so much for sending in your questions. Keep them coming.
32:45
Speaker1: Till next time. Bye! Bye! Bye!
32:48
Speaker1: This is Not Your Grandma's Cancer Show. Not Your Grandma's
32:53
Speaker1: Cancer Show.