Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 335: 2020 State of the Whitetail Union with Kip Adams

Transcript

Ep. 335: 2020 State of the Whitetail Union with Kip Adams · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. All Right, welcome to the wire Hunt podcast,
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: brought to you by on X. Today, we've got Kip Adams. Now,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: a lot of you are probably familiar with Kip. He
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: works over at the Equality Deer Management Association. He's been
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: on the podcast many times before, and most of those
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: have been for this State of the White Tail Union
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: podcast that we have each year. Kip will tell you
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: more about this in a second, but a very high
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: level overview of what we're gonna do here is review
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: a document, a report that Kip helps develop every year
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: which highlights the top stories and issues and data across
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: the deer hunting world each year. So looking at harvest data,
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: looking at big trends, looking at various issues that are
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: of importance at this time for deer and deer hunting.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: That's the kind of stuff we're gonna talk about. So
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: we're covering I don't know, dear harvest numbers, AIG structure,
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: other trends in deer population and deer hunting, changes and
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: weapons use and how that's impact two populations up changes
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: and hunter numbers and recruitment, a little bit on the
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: latest with diseases like e h D and c w
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: D and other major legislative proposals that are important for
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: US hunters to know about. All that kind of stuff
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: that we as deer hunters need to stay on top of.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: KIP is going to help us cover, So I don't
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: want to beat around the bush too much today. UM
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: don't have Dan. We'll catch up with Dan next week,
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: So today we'll be kind of quick one, so we'll
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: get right into it. I just want to give you
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: a couple of quick reminders on some other things you
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: can be checking out. If it's you know, it's that
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: winter time frame, Kevin fever setting in. If you're like me,
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: you're dreaming of wanting to be outside doing some of
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: these different things. So let me recommend two things for you.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Number One, if you still haven't watched the Back forty series,
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: highly highly highly recommend you do that. That is the
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: TV show essentially that I was the host of last year,
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: documenting the story of us buying and learning and starting
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: the process of trying to improve this property in Michigan
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: and then hunting it. Check it on out. So over
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: in the Meat Eater YouTube channel. There's eight episodes and
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: very proud of how they turned out, and the new
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: season is starting to be filmed here very shortly. So
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: make sure you're all caught up. Number two, if you're
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: craving some big public land adventure, if you're craving western
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: hunting trip or float trip, or climbing a mountain, or
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: hunting elk or hunting caribou, if any of those things
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: are in your mind these days when you lay in
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: bed at night. A book you might really enjoy is
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: That Wild Country. That's my new book I published just
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: a couple of months ago. If you haven't picked up
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: a copy yet, it would mean the world if you could.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: So far, reviews have been great. People are really enjoying it,
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: which is amazing to hear. So so glad and fortunate
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: and thankful that people are are liked what I put
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: out there. So pick up a copy of That Wild
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: Country by one for a cousin and uncle and aunt,
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: a buddy, anyone who you think needs to know more
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: about the outside the wilderness pursuits the story of our
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: public land. Graham mccopy, get them learned up. I certainly
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: would appreciate that too, So there's your homework. Check out
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: that Wild Country and the Back forty series. Alright, back
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: with me on the show is Kip Adams. Thank you
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: Kip for being here again. Absolutely mark my pleasure. Always
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: enjoy getting to catch up and especially our our annual
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: check in for this reason. I particularly enjoy because what
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about today is the QTUM a white
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: Tail Report which you guys put together every year, and
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: it does a really great job for me at least
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: of kind of resetting my mind, not just on how
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: my personal hunting is going that I do myself, but
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: this kind of gives me this big picture idea of
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: what's the state of white tail hunting and white tailed
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: deer across the country. And I love the fact that
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: you guys do this, So thanks for doing so much work.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: I'm sure it's no easy task. I have my pleasure.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: I'm a I'm a data guy and certainly a dear junkie,
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: so it's nice to kind of have the first look
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: at all of this dear info from across the white
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: tails range. Yeah, So for people that haven't heard one
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: of these in the past or are not familiar with
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: the White Tailer Report. Can you just give us the
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: quick cliff notes of what this thing is that you
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: guys put together. Sure, we've been doing this now since
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: two thousand and nine, so more than a decade of
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: new reports. And uh, what we realized was, you know,
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: we had all this access to information and with our
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: state and provincial wildlife agencies, you know, when hunters were
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: craving this info. So we started doing an annual survey
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: where we contacted every state in provincial wildlife agencies dear
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: project later and asked them a series of questions on
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: the prior seasons buck harvest and doe harvest age, structure
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: of those harvest um other hunting related things, you know,
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: like how many deer were shot with the firearm versus
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: a bow versus a muzzleloader, and and then ask questions
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: on just the biggest current topics going on, you know
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: during that given year, whether it was disease related or
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: you know, cross bowl related or whatever the case was.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: And then we compile it all together and put it
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: in this annual report, and uh, folks can look at it,
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: you know, on a state by state basis kind of
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: see how your state compares to others number of bucks
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: that you killed per square a mile and those per
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: square a mile, and you know, all kinds of fun
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: ways to just kind of gauge, you know, what's going
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: on in the deer harvest world as well as other
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: big issues impacting hunters. So you know, if you're a
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: dear person, it's it's a one stop shop for kind
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: of you know, the state of the Union address with
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: regard to white tail hunting. Yeah, is there any other
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: organization or governmental entity that is looking at this stuff
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: at a national level, because every state is doing this individually.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: But I've never heard of anyone who's looking at the
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: big picture other than you guys. Well, yeah, I don't
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: know if anybody that's put together, you know, or compiled
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: as much in nationally as we have. And the thing
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: that's pretty cool about it, as you know, in the
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: early years, when we contacted the state agencies, uh, some
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: of them were a little reluctant to give us some information,
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: and you know, but once we convinced them, hey, we
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: are trying, you know, to to help share this information.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: You know, and it's good for the agencies as well
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: because they can see what's going on in their neighboring
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: states and in other regions, and over the years we
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: have received tremendous accolades from hunters for sure, from the media,
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: but also from the state and provincial agency folks saying, hey,
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: you know, this is extremely helpful, you know, for us too,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: so that that's the goal of love it is to
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: to share good information and help. So it's always nice
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: to hear folks, you know, and all of those different
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: disciplines you know, say hey, we use this and thanks
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: for compiling it. Oh yeah, given the fact that this
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: is kind of unique what you guys are doing compared
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: to PRIB what any state has, has there been any
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: I don't know, major epiphany or any kind of management
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: change or anything that's come about because of the day
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: out of you guys have put together, like the big
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: picture story. Has that given a light ball to any
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: organization or state that's led to some kind of change there.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: We hear a handful of stories each year where an
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: agency will thank us for a certain chapter that's in there.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: Um For example, a perfect example in this year's report,
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: one of the chapters is on starting time for for
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: firearm season. You know, when the vast majority the state's
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: hunters get to start a half hour before sunrise. You know,
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: that's listed as the official start time. Um, well, there's
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: one state in New York and actually New York is
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: the only state in the country that makes their hunters
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: wait until sunrise. And um, so they don't get to
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: you know, that first half hour. Well, about five or
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: six years ago, or actually maybe a little more than that, now,
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: Ohio's hunters used to be in the same boat. And
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: by collecting some information from surrounding states and putting together
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: a little plan and saying, hey, you know, you guys
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: are one of the only ones that make your hunters
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: wait until sunrise. Um, Ohio DNR was actually able to
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: change their regulations so they now started half hour before sunrise,
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: you know, in large part because you could compare it
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: to other states. So New York is kind of in
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: that same boat right now, where their hunters in their agency,
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: and I know their agency would like to at least
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: some in their agency would like to change that as well.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: So you know, it's a it's a nice educational tool
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: for that because they can look and say, look, you know,
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: every other state in the country, you know, allows their
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: hunters to start a half hour before sunrise. You know,
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: there's not safety issues with that. So um, anyway, we
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: have seen examples like that where because the data is
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: together and it's you know, both a regional and a
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: national look um, that's enabled state agencies to change some
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: of the ways that they manage dear. You know, that's
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: a little more uniform with the rest of the country.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: So that's pretty cool. We're glad that we can help
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: with that. Yeah, I bet Matt Ross is pretty excited
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: spearhead that project. Absolutely, So yeah, Matt is definitely in
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: favor of getting an extra half hour. Yeah, for sure.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: I can't imagine not being able to hunt that first
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: half hour of daylight. That's tough. I know. You know
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: what's funny about that too, is that South Carolina is
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: the only state that goes more than that, and and
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: they're hunters are allowed to start an hour before sunrise.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: So yeah, that that's a little far. That was my
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: sentiments exactly, you know, And sometimes we get they like
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: then say, oh, geez, you know, did we input this
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: data wrong or you know, the agency guy tell us wrong.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: So we confirmed, you know, with the South Carolina DNR,
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: and they said, no, that's that's right, that's that's when
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: we start. So yeah, the same thing, like wow, that
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: is you know, there's lots of times, you know, with
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: the you know, real bright now you just get snow
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: on the ground, you can definitely see you know, maybe
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: a little before a half hour before sunrise, but I'm
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: thinking it an hour an hour it is pushing half
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: hour before sunrise always seemed like just right, It's like
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: that that natural breaking point where colors start to pop
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: a little more. Okay, yeah, all right, it's daylight, it's time, um,
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: but an hour it could be pitch black almost, that's right. Ah, well,
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: that's interesting. So let's let's let's talk about this year,
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: the two thousand twenty report, and this examines two thousand
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: eighteen season data. Correct that you're that you're reviewing that
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: comes out in nineteen, That is correct. Yep. So the
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: most recent season hunting season where the data is all
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: in and compiled and able to be to be shared
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: is with you know, through the two thousand and eighteen
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: and into nineteen hunting season. And because actually right now,
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: you know there's still a few hunting seasons, you know
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: that they're just finishing up. Actually Alabama still going so
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: so some people say, well, jeez, if it's the twenty report,
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: you know why you're using eighteen data. Well, it's because
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: you know, the nineteen hunting season technically is not done
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: yet everywhere and that data is not available. So so yeah,
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: so it's the most recent season that's all done and
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: data is shared with the country. Okay, so what's the
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: high level grade? Like if you were the professor and
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: you're class was the United States deer hunting season and
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: you're going to rate that season on a F through
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: a scale, UM, in some kind of somewhat objective way,
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: how would you rate this season? Well, I will, I'll
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: break that into two and I actually give it two grades.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: I'll give it one for for the buck harvest side
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: of that, and I'll give you one for the antalyst
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: harvest side, and UM for the buck harvest side. Hunters
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: definitely would rate it as an a. UM. It was
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: one of the highest buck harvests of all time, and
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: that's saying a lot because you know, the historically our
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: our country has was very very good at shooting bucks
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: and we are at historically high numbers. Again, UM that
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: there was the total buck harvest was over two point
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: nine million antler deer, you know, and that does not
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: count buck fons. Buck fons going to antalyst side, so
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: deers that are one and a half and older, it
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: was over two point nine million. That actually was down
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: just a hair from the year before. UM, but we're
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: still way above national averages. So from the buck side, UM,
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: definitely in a lots of bucks. And we'll touch on
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: age structure here in a minute, but unbelievable age structure,
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: so lots of bucks. Arguably the best age structure ever.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: So we get an A for that from the antilis side, UM,
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: a little lower grade for that, but we can we
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: can talk more a little more about the buck harvest
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: first before we get into the antlest side, if you'd like, sure, yeah,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: So so let's expand on the age structure thing. Then, UM,
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: looks like the trend that has been going for a
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: decade or a decade and a half or so now continues, right,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: that is correct. And we have been monitoring the age
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: structure of the buck harvest since so uh a long time,
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: and last year UM, it was literally the best age
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: structure in our country's history. UM, and I would say
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: that the best buy we monitor the percentage of all
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: the buckshot that were one and a half years old,
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: those that were two and a half years old, and
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: then those that were three and a half and older.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: So it kind of group all of those older ones
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: together and last year only thirty so less than a
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: third of all the buck shot we're one and a
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: half years old, and that is by far the lowest
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: percentage in US history. Wow. Now, this is when you
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: average out across all the states. That right, there's some
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: states that are much higher than that, there's some states
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: that are much lower. Correct, that is correct, yep. So, uh,
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: the you know, the average to give you a feel
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: of nine when we started monitoring this over of all
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: the buckshot we're just one and a half years old.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: So that statistic has been more than cut in half today.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: So you know when some people look at that and say,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: you know what, why is this a good thing? Well,
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: essentially what that means is, you know, if we are
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: protecting the majority of yearling bucks each year, that allows
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: the majority to you know, at least hit two and
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: a half years of age and we can go ahead
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: and start shooting them, then that's fine. But the good
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: thing is we won't get them all, so some will
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: become three and a half, some will become four and
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: a half and five half, etcetera. And once we had
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: that balanced age structure on the buck side, you know,
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: that's very natural for dear populations. It's very healthy form.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: That's how they evolved, that's how their social order works best.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: So as managers, you know, we should be interested in
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: making sure we do match that natural age structure and
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: uh with with what we're shooting today and allows that
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: to happen. So that's a really good place to be.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: Can you expand on what you're just saying there as
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: far as the benefits of that balanced age structure, because
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: you get this a lot where people say, well, you
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: just wanna you talk about this management, but it's really
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: just because you want big antler deer um. Not as
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: many people understand the benefits from a health perspective and
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: a habitat perspective and all that. Can you just give
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: us a little primer in that too, just for people
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: that maybe aren't familiar. Sure, deer are very social, far
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: more social than most people realize, and they evolved under
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: this very complex social order where they are always sharing
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: information at rubs and at scrapes. They're leaving information there
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: through pheromones, where you know, younger deer pick up on
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: these cues, and there's a whole social order that works
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: based on havin this complete age structure of deer that
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: are you know, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: years old and older. And uh, all of that starts
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: to fall apart if you don't have those older animals there. Now,
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: some people say, well, you know, all of those out
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: there will be bread even if you only have young deer.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: And and that is true, even if all the bucks
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: are only one and a half years old. Sure they
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: can handle the breaching requirements for that dear herd. But
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: that's a pretty poor measure of heart health. So a
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: much better measure is, hey, let's let's make sure that
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: we're managing for dear herd that is natural. And if
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: you look today mark and unhunted populations of deer, like
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: in urban areas or other places we just can't hunt.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: They have very advanced age structures. If you look in
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: Native American trash piles where they can pull out jawbones,
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: and you know, before white Man had a big impact,
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: they had very advanced age structures. So I mean that's
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: just a natural thing, and so it's wildlife managers we
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: should strive to, you know, produce what would naturally happen anyway,
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: and that happens when we have very balanced age structure
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: as a deer. That less the social orders work, that
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: keeps those those younger bucks from spending so much energy
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: in the phone winner trying to breed. It allows them
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: to have more body fat going into winter, so survival
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: is higher. They're healthier in the spring at green up.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: So there's a whole bunch of pieces that play into that.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, it's it's very
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: clear that balanced age structures for white tailed deer are
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: certainly good for hunters because we have the opportunity to
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: pursue order bucks. That is true. However, they're also very
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: important for the deer hurt themselves. Is this the biggest
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: change that you guys have seen since starting the white
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: tail report? If you were looking over this from from
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: the first report to now we're from when you were
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: tracking things first, and you look at all this data
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: that you've been studying year after year after year, is
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: this the most substantial difference or is there anything else
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: that stands out? Like, hey, this is a lot different
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: than it used to be as well. There's there's two
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: really big differences. This is definitely one of them where
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: you know, age structure has changed, so you know, only
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: thirty nowur one and thirty seven percent of the buck
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: harvest last year was at least three years old, so
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: there were three or four or five that is by
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: far the highest percentage of those older bucks. So literally
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: that's a you know, a monumental change and what's going on.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: So there's also one other huge change that we can
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: address next. But this age structure difference is definitely one
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: of the two biggest things that has changed since we
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: began writing this back in two thousand nine. So then
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: what's the next one. The next one is actually the
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: h the sex ratio of the harvest. Um. I told
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: you that we shot over two point nine million bucks
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: last year and it's record high buck harvest numbers. Uh.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: The flip side of that is the analyst side. So
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: while I would give us A for the bucks hide, UM,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: we are a lot closer to a C grade C
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: for the ant of a side. And and the reason
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: for that is um, for the second year in a row,
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: we shot more bucks than we did aunt lois dear. Um,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: the first time in US history that we shot more
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: ant lists deer than we did bucks was back and uh,
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: and that was a historic year managing deer. Because for
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: most of the white tails range, we need to be
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: shooting more does than bucks each year for to have
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: healthy populations. There are certainly some places in the country, Um,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: New England comes to mind, Florida comes to mind, where
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: we can be successful by shooting more bucks than does
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: each year. But for the vast majority of the country
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: that is not the case. So well, in your home
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: state of Michigan, think of it this way, you know,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: and the u P you know, you can be successful,
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: you know, by eating about the same number of bucks
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: as does in the up you know, that keeps deer
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: herds in check, it keeps things bound. But in the
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: southern you know, peninsula, you can't be successful or you
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: have to shoot more analysts deer. Well, we have been
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: doing that for a long time, and that's really one
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: of the reasons. You know, the foundation of q d
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: m A is, Hey, you know, let's balance deer hers
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: the habitat. We do that by protecting some of those
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: young bucks and focusing an effort on DOES, so was
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: a landmark year and then for a couple of decades
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: after that we continued to shoot way more antalysts year
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: than bucks. Well, two years ago that changed. There was
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: the first year since in the late nineties that we
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: actually shot more bucks than does and it was just
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: a few more, a few thousand, that was it. Well,
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: last year the gap we got wider. We again shot
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: a lot more bucks than analysts deer, and we shot
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: almost fifty thousand more bucks across the US. So that's
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: not good. The analyst harvest has dropped about in the
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: last decade. Um. In some places that's needed. We've had
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: places where we've balanced deer herds and places where we've
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: lost a lot of deer to disease, but uh, in
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: much of the country, hum that is not the case.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: So we are absolutely going the wrong way with the
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: antle of the side and that showed again last year.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: So what do you think gives? Yeah, what do you think?
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: What's behind that? Is that because hunters don't think the
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: dear populations are where they should be. So it's a
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: choice to try to you know, re established populations that
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: hunters don't think are large enough or is this I mean,
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: I don't know what's the theory behind it. Do you
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: have one? I think yeah, I think there's a couple
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: of things. One is, um, there are still a faction
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: of hunters who you know, who just simply don't want
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: to shoot antlerst deer. Um. It tends to be a
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: lot older hunters. UM. Younger and newer hunters tend to
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: be much more uh likely to shoot antlest deer, to
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: put that meat in the freezer, to do their part
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: for conservation and be good stewards of the natural resources.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: So you still have some people who just choose to
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: to not shoot antlerwis deer. And part of it is
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: we have some pretty liberal buck bag limits in a
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: lot of the country, so people would just rather, you know,
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: shoot something with antlers than not. And uh I get that.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: But one of the dangers of that is we've actually
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: looked this was this data came from last year's wait
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: Till report. What we found is across the country, less
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: than half of all the hunters in the US will
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: shoot a deer in any given year. It's only so
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: four out of ten hunters kill a deer. H Only
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: hunters kill more than one deer. So it's a small
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: number of people who shoot multiple deer a year. So
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: you me and our friends worthy anomally the ones that
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: are killed. I can't imagine that. You know, the Adams
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: family eats a lot more than two deer a year,
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: but because it has since such a small number shoots
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: more than one deer um, a lot of states allow
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: people to you know, kill at least two bucks. So
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: with that, you know, if the average person is only
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: shooting one, they prefer to shoot a buck. And if
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: that small number that gets to shoot more than one,
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: you know, they often, if they have a chance, they
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: will take a second buck too. So we're just we're
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: focused on too much effort, even though our buck age
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: structure is really really good. You know, these historically high
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: buck harvest rates is because you know, if people take
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: that second deer, and it's a small number, they do,
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: but for those that do, many of them take another buck.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: And we're just simply not putting enough effort on the
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: antlers side. Yeah, okay, so I know this is well
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: tried ground, but again, let's assume there's new hunters listening.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: Why is it important that we try to take out
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: some of these antler list deer and manage them a
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: little bit better. Why is this so important? What happens
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: when we don't do that? Well? The way that we
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: control dear populations um is through the analyst harvest. You know,
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: we can shoot all the bucks we want, but that's
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: not controlling population growth. In most cases, we have to
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: shoot the handle of the side. So and we want
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: to keep deer herds healthy, and we do that when
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: we have balanced sex raciers. Now, if you take all
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: the phones born in Michigan this year, or my home
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: state of Pennsylvania anywhere else, about half of them are
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: buck ponds, and about half our dough phones. So just
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: from that, you have to shoot about the same numbers
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: of bucks as does each year just to keep that
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: sex racial balance, keep that dear hurt healthy, and have
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: any chance of keeping dear from becoming too overabundant. So
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: that's uh, that's the very quick and dry and short way.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: And say, hey, it is so important. And I'll tell
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: you now, whether the spread of c w D it's
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: becoming more and more clear than in these disease zones,
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: it is even more important to focus additional harvest effort
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: on these dose or we're just absolutely losing the disease game. Yeah,
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: I want to talk about that specifically in a minute. Um,
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: But one more clarifying question on the over abundance thing again,
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: just to get folks up to speed here, what happens
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: to a deer herd and an area when you have
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: way too many deer? What are because there's a whole
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: cascade of effects when your dear populations out of whack
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: with the habitat. Can you just walk us through that
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: a little bit? Sure, deer eat a lot and and
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: the average deer eats about two thousand pounds of food
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: a year, so smaller deery less than that. Bigger deer
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: eat more, but on average they're eating a ton of peace.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: So you know, that's a lot of food that we
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: have to provide. And as soon as we have more
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: deer than we have adequate food available, what they start
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: doing is then the deer herd starts degrading that habitat,
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: and then they're being nutritionally deprived, so they're not as
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: healthy as they were. And then what that means is
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: as they start degrading the habitat, then other wildlife species
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: are negatively impacted. You know, the habitat is negatively impacted,
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: and then since they are degraded next year, that area
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: can't so hold as many deer as it could this year,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: so it can support fewer deer next year and then
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: fewer the year after that at And you know, from
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: a hunting end, that's absolutely the wrong way we want
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: to go, you know, and just from being a good steward,
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: that's wrong. So we want to make sure that there's
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: not more dear then we have good food for because
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: that negatively impacts all the wildlife species and all that
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: habitat that's there headed in the wrong direction. So the
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: cool thing is, though, as soon as we balance that
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: deer heard and shoot enough anti list dear, the deer
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: that are left are healthier, they have more phones, the
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: habitat is healthier, which means it's better for turkeys and
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: songbirds and non game species. You know, it's a it's
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: a win win when we when we pull the trigger
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: on enough antler lists here. Yeah, and then from a
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: hunting perspective to wouldn't you agree that having that better
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: balanced antler list side will lead to a more intense run,
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: which is going to give you a more fun hunting
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: experience too, absolutely absoluta, and that puts more bucks on
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: their feet more during daylight hours during the fall, which
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: is you know exactly what we want. You you've never
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: heard of hunters say, ma'am, when I go hunting today,
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: I hope the bucks are just not moving. We don't
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: want But if you have way more ant lists here
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: than than bucks, that's that's often what happens because they
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: don't have to move very far to find the dough.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: So yeah, balanced age structures make deer move more, and
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: they make them move more during daylight hours, which which
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: is good for us as hunters. So okay, so that's
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: what's going on from a bucking Doe harvest. We talked
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: about age structure. Any other big things that stood out
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: to you this year as far as headlines for the report, Yeah,
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: one of them because of this whole antlest thing where
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: we're not shooting as many deer. Um. We asked all
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: the states a question, Hey, You're like, what is your
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: preference for the antlest harvest in your state? You know,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: do you want to see him shoot more ant list
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: you than box or about the same number or more bucks?
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: And does like we wanted to see what the philosophy
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: of the agencies were, and it was it was extremely
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: really you know, what we found is the vast majority
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: of the Northeast they want to buck harvest I'm sorry,
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: the antlest harvest to be more than the bucklers. You know, okay,
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: we know we need to feel more anless here. Um.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: The exception of that was New England and New England. Um,
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: they want to shoot more bucks than those simply because
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: they just don't. They can't sustain the same type of
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: harvest that you can or we can hear, you know
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: that's right, yep. And then the severe winters and you know,
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: and and fawn recruitment is lower, so they just don't.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: They're just those jeer herbs aren't as productive as you know, um,
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: places where it's a little easier to live. But but
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: so most of the Northeast wants to shoot more antless
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: gem bucks. The Southeast it was different, and most of
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: that says, you know what, as long as the buck
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: harvest is about equal to aurinless harmers were pretty good
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: that that's what we'd like to see. So, uh, that's
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: very different from what we have in the Northeast and
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: the Midwest is kind of in between the two. Some
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: of the states wanted more those some didn't. And you guys,
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: actually the Lower Peninsula said absolutely, was like, we need
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: to shoot more antless gum bucks. The up was about
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: the same, you know, same number of each And uh,
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: this this is very helpful because there's a lot of
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: ters that here when I talk about are you or others?
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: And but where they're from really matters. So for example,
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: if you're from Florida, you know, area that's just from
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: not real productive soils, not real productive deer herds, you know,
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: you just can't sustain anywhere near the same levels of
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: antless harvest as a Michigan or Pennsylvania or Io or those.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: So so it's very helpful for hunters to see, hey,
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: what's my agency's philosophy on this, because then it allows them,
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: you know, to help more during the deer season, either
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: shoot an extra antless deer or two extra antlow list
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: deer or wherever the case is. So it can allow
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: them to be a better partner and more engaged on
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: what's going on. You know. One of the things, Uh,
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: this is a little bit of a segue, but it
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: brings to mind another one of the topics you guys
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: cover in their port. And one of the things that
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: hunters have been worried about for many years has that
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: has been the introduction of crossbows. And the theory being
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: that if we introduced crossbows seasons, that's going to get
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: way too many deer being killed by these cross bows
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: that are too easy for people to use, and that's
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: going to result in the crash of deer populations or
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: or some other issues. UM. You guys took a look
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: a little bit at crossbows this year in the report.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: Is there any truth to that kind of impact that
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: crossbows could have or what have you guys seen as
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: far as that introduction. Over the last I don't know,
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: a decade or fifteen years or however long it's been,
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: the crossbows have been more and more popularly utilized. That's
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: a great question, and that is a growing concern by many. UM.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: One of the things that that we looked at in
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: this report is we take a look at the total
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: dear Hardest and we asked you just says, hey, what
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: percentagees was taken by a bow or muzzleloader or a
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: firearm and and the bows, bow and crossboard together, and
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: what we saw you know, we've been monitoring this for
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: a long time and UH, fifteen to twenty years ago,
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: only about the total harvest was taken by bows. You know.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: Now this was kind of before most of the crossbows
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: seasons were put into effect. UM. Fast forward to now
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: and over about the last five years, UM, this number
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: has stabilized. But over the last five years bows and
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: crossbows take about a quarter of the deer harvest. So
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: that climbed a lot when you were seeing a lot
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: more crossbow seasons. But it's it's kind of stabilized right there.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: And you're in and year obits about so that is
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: not changing over the last few years. So firearms still
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: take about two thirds of all the deer. However, what
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: is changing is the percentage of that archery harvest that's
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: taken by crossbows. And UH, and we took a look
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: at hey which states allow you allow the vast majority
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: of hunters to use crossbows during the archery season. You know,
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: you don't have to be a senior or a youth hunter,
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: or have a disability or whatever. UM. Today in the
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: vast majority of the country, UH, at least vast majority
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: of the eastern two thirds of the country, where where
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: most white tails live. Um, almost everybody can use a
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: crossbow during archery season, so that's really your own which
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: then begs the question, Okay, what impacts are those crossbows have?
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: And what we see is they're really not changing the
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: overall deer harvest. UM. No state has you know, changed
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: their crossbow laws because crossbows are killing too much. Nobody
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: has has made those efforts yet. However, the one big
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: change we're seeing right now is there are a handful
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: of states where now the crossbow harvest exceeds the vertical
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: bow harvest. UM, places like your state of Michigan, mine
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Virginia, Wisconsin, some of these really big,
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: you know, in long term deer hunting states. Now people
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: are really taking advantage of crossbows. So it's changing the
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: actual archie harvest. Archie harvest the state about the same.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: It's not getting higher, but more of those deer are
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: now being taken by crossbow and that's drawn attention from
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: a lot of hunters, a particularly a lot of traditional
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: bow hunters. So it's not impacting dear levels, it's not
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: impacting the any kind of Oh, it's not impacting the herd.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: It's simply impacting how people how hunters are engaging with
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: the herd, so how people are doing it. So really
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: it comes down to people that would otherwise be killing
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: deer with a vertical bow are switching to a horizontal
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: horizontal bow crossbow and just utilizing this easier option. Or
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: do we think that it's that crossbows are doing one
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: of the things that people hypothesized, which is that they
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: are allowing new hunters to come into the game in
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: a more easy fashion, or keeping long term bow hunters
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: in the game longer as they get older. Do we
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: have any data or anecdotal evidence that one of those
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: two things happening. It's it's we do and and it's
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: a little bit of all of those things that you
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: just said. Um, there's no doubt that they are bringing
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: or allowing uh young hunters to partake any archery season
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: at an earlier age, and they would. Um, my kids
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: are perfect examples. You know my kids before or my
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: son this year when he was ten, and my daughter
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: when she was I think nine was her first year
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: under ten. You know, world, we're archery hunting with me.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: They both shoot a vertical bow in the background or
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: I mean in the backyard with me and love it.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: But you know, neither one of them pull at that
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: time anyway anywhere near enough weight you know, to hunt
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: with that bow. However, you know, so they would stand
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: the backyard and shoot our compound bows. But then we'd
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: go hunting. We we got a crossbow, so you know,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: they could start hunting them, and we are seeing that,
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: you know, in many states. So the one thing that's
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: a little funny with us, though, is that no states
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: are being able to show, you know, this big increase
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: in hunter numbers because of this directly resulted from being
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: able to use crossbows. But there's no doubt that there's
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: a lot of young hunters today hunting with a crossbow
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: that just simply couldn't like a compound. Um, there's no
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: doubt there's a lot of aging hunters. They are able
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: to continue to hunt in the archery season because they
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: can use crossbows. And it's undeniable that there's a lot
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: of new adult hunters trying hunting because they can use
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: a cross bow first. And our field defolt programs are
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: perfect example, you know, where we find adult hunters who
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: want to do that. Many of them are particularly many
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: of the ladies that get involved are very intimidated by
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: shooting a shotgun or a rifle, you know, and just
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: have want nothing to do with that at first. However,
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: they think a cross like, oh, I can do that,
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: you know, I want to get my own food and
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: I'll try it with a cross bow. Yeah. So there's
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: definitely some some evidence that those are helping, um at
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: least some with recruiting hunters and retaining some hunters. So
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: there's seemingly no big picture negative impact from them. There's
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: seemingly some possible positive impact. Um it comes down to
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: a purity issue for some hunters. What do either you
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: or the Quality Dear Management Association say to those who
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: have concerns still? What's the stance of the organization or
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: or you personally? Yeah, Well, I'm I'm a die hard
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: bow hunter, um you know, I I very serious about
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: taking my my compound to the woods. And so I
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: get it when when there's other die hard hunters that
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: you know, just really despise crossbows, and I know a
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: lot of people that do. However, you know, I try
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: to look at the big picture and say, even though
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: I don't choose to hunt with a crossbow, um man,
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: I'm sure. I'm glad that my kids can come hunting
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: with it. And you know, I have an older member
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: of our deer campus in his eighties now that bow
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: hunted his whole life that just simply can't anymore. But
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: but he's still crossbow hunts. So man, I'm glad that
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: he can come. And you know what I'm so my
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: take on it is, Hey, you know, we need hunters
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: more than ever before. So if crossbows are not having
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: any negative biological impact on deer herds, but they can
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: help get more people into the woods. Man, I'm totally
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: fine sharing the archery woods, you know, with somebody else
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: hoosing a crossbow. Um, I get it. In some states
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: where they're buck harvest is you know a lot of
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: crossbows are taking a lot more of those books and
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: taking them earlier in the year, you know than some
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: of the firearm hunters can get too. But man, everybody can.
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: You can get a crossbow and go hunt. So I
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: can see both sides. But man, I'm told to find sharing.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: What is somebody using a crossbow, you know, God bless
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: him for wanting to hunt and and to be out there. Yeah,
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: I'd rather have somebody getting into it and learning to
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: love this stuff and this resource and maybe someday standing
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: up for I'd rather have that person out there doing
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: that than never getting into it at all because they
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: didn't feel comfortable with a compound or a gun. So
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: that's right. I agree. I'm with you. So speaking of
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: that hunter recruitment UH challenge, which Crossbows we hope is
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: are our one small way to help address that. I
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: didn't see this addressed addressing the report, But from your
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: perspective or from any other things that you've been involved in,
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: are looking at where do we stand on that front?
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's a big article that came out in
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: the Washington Post recently talking about declining hunter numbers and
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: the impacts that's having on conservation funding. It's a thing
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: we continue to talk about year after year after year. Um,
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: just what's your what's your sense of or what's what's
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: the pulse on that? Where are we doing anything right?
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: Are we still trending in the wrong direction? Do you
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: feel like we're making any impact of the programs of
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: trying or the all the talk about it. Well? I do,
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: and you know it's it's it's undeniable that we're losing
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: hunters and then we're losing at an alarming rate. Of
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: all the different recruitment programs and retention programs that are
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: out there, you know, we have not had a lot
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: of success with those, I think mostly because the majority
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: of them were focused on youth. And about five years
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: ago we started to take we being Q you may
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: took a little different look and said, hey, you know,
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: like we still do a lot of youth stuff, but hey,
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: what if we did something that focused on some more
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: adults who may want to go hunting. And that's kind
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: of what our Field Default program was born out of.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: And I share that to say that has been the
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: one success story that we have seen in the opportunity
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: to kind of turn the tide on loss of hunter
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: numbers UM. For example, a lot of youth programs, you know,
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: the actual impact is pretty minimal um, you know, because
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: first of all, the kid can't take himself hunting. They
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: need somebody to take them. They can't buy a bow
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: or a gun, and so if they didn't have opportunity
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: to go, then sure, let's take them and show them
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: a good time and expose them to it. But you know,
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: that's not a big recruitment factor that way. However, with
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: an adult, hey, they can get a bow, they can drive,
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: they can buy a license. And so where we have
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: seen our field of fort programs is about of all
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: the people that go through those continue to hunt the
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: next year, they buy a license, they buy bows, they
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: buy guns, they buy Campbell clothing. So so we I
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: think around the verge of having something to really change
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: that that tide um, we spent the last few years
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: kind of developing a model that we know will work
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: with regard to mentoring hunters. So we are in the
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: process right now of scaling that up and being able
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: to use it at a much broader scale where it
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: doesn't just have to be qd M a staff and
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: volunteers that can implement these programs, you know, and get
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: these people involved, but we can have others who aren't
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: even affiliated with us follow these methods that we have
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: shown to work very well. That then we can do
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: this in communities across the United States. So is it
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: gonna work, man? I sure hope so. And I think
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: we have a better model than anything that we've had,
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: you know, in the last several decades to do this.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: So it's just a matter of if we're able to
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: pull it off at a scale that really makes a difference.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: But but there's no doubt mark that the future is brighter,
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: at least for this model than anything else that we
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: have seen in a long time. Yeah, I am excited
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: about that too. I do. I do believe you guys
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: have have found something, You've tapped into, something that really
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: does have some potential. So excited to hopefully continue helping
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: on that front and make that a reality and make
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: that scaling possible. Yeah, and you have been involved in
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: those so, I mean you see the power of them.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: You know, you have mentored hunters, you know, and that's
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: as much as anything is that Historically hunters look at
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: this as hey, I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna be a consumer.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: I am gonna go I'm gonna hopefully shoot something and
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: need it. I'm going to use these opportunities. Well, we
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: need to change that dinalogue some too, and we need
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: to understand that every hunter has to say, you know
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: what I am going to do all this. However, it
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: is my responsibility to then also teach somebody else. And
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: I know you do that and you're very good at it.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: And we need to impress upon the mass of hunters.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: You know, hey, this is why it's important. And once
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: we convince you it's important, Okay, here are the materials,
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: are the way to make it easier for you to
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: then go ahead and do this. Yeah. I've just always
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: thought that I personally, we all get so much from hunting,
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: so many benefits, so many ways that it enriches our lives.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: Um It just I think if you enjoy those benefits,
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: it then becomes incumbent upon you to give back, to
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: try to pass it on, to try to get back
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: to the resource, or to help other people enjoy that resource.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: So it just seems like an obligation, like and not
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: even a question, is just something you absolutely should have
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: to do. Um So I hope hopefully more and more
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: people feel the same way. I want to. I want
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: to switch gears a little bit, kip from what is
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: a little bit of a glimmer of hope on the
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: front of this new program that's helping with some hunter recruitment.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: I want to skip to something that's a little less
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: um positive, which is the whole topic of disease across
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: the country. I know this is another area of continuous
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: change and evolution. As you guys have been doing the
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: White Tail Report UM. E h D and c w
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: D have both come up various times, either annually or
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: here and there. As we've talked over the years doing
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: these annual check in podcasts, where do things stand right
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: now with e h D and c w D. What's
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: our status report, UM, and what do you foresee moving
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: forward from the e h D And we're continuing to
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: see more frequent outbreaks UM. And if folks aren't from
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: the h D, is it's a temorrhagic disease, it's you know,
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: it's a viral disease. That's more most natural diseases of
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: deer that's carried by the no SM So these little
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: biting midges, that's the disease that's carried during the summer
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: that we often see deer end up near water. UM.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: It's very common with deer. UM. What we're seeing is
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: an expansion of the severity of those outbreaks. It used
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: to be just kind of the disease of deer in
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: the southeastern US. And you know, those deer who are
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: exposed to it every year, they can develop antibodies against it,
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: so you didn't see these big die offs. What we're
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: seeing now is you know, it's not a disease of
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: the southeast anymore at all. You know, it's all the
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: way up into Canada, it's all the way across the country,
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: you know, through Montana um, so a lot more deer
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: hurts being exposed. You know, we are seeing more severe
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: die offs on a more regular basis, So definitely bigger
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: impacts in the past. Now the good thing is, you
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: know if deer some deer surviving, that doesn't kill everybody,
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: and even some that get it survived and then they
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: are more resistant to it in the future. So the
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: overall impact, Yeah, we lose a bunch of deer in
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: some areas, but they recover very quickly. There's no long
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: term effects, and then you just kind of go on
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: with it. That's very different from from c w D,
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: where it's a fatal to all deer. You know, they
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: don't recover from it and once it's there. The bad
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: thing about CWD is it takes a while to infect
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: enough deer and a deer herd to start seeing population
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: level declines. So like hemorrho DGCSE where people find oh
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: god dear, got it now, they're dead a week later.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: I can see that I understand this is bad. C
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: w D doesn't work that way. It's kind of like
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: the slow killer. So many hunters just don't realize the
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: severity of it. But big picture, c w D is
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: way worse for deer herds and the future of hunting
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: than hemorrhagic disease. You know, It's like scales worse. So
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: what's the latest update on CWD? Then, I know that
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: we continue to hear in new reports trickle out week
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: after week after week, year after year after year. What
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: are the headlines of CWD this year? Well, Um, it
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: continues to to expand. It's now in twenty states, so
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: it's in over half of the US several foreign countries
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: as well, but we see continued expansion of it new
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: states as well as areas within states that already had it. Um,
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: there's been a lot of you know, doom and gloom
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: over c w D in the past because we had
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: so few success stories. But you know what, even though
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: it is continuing to spread, for the first time, we
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: are starting to have up some research help us out
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: with some some positive things. For example, this past year,
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: for the first time ever, now we know, hey, we
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: can finally decontaminate or clean knives, saws and other things
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: that we processed here with, you know, so we know
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: how to get rid of the prens off the stainless
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: steel and uh, it's pretty cool. It's as simple as
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: a as a bleach bath. Basically can't decontaminate a carcass
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: or the environment yet, but at least we have a
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: step in how to beat this on our equipment that
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: we use knives and stuff to feel, dress and cut
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: up deer. So that's a good thing. Um, we know
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: for the first time, possibly through some some soil properties,
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: it's human acid properties, where hey, we know something in
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: the environment that now may help us in this fight
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: against CWD. So it's they're small steps, but man, it's
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: nice to have something positive for the first time in
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: this fight because as this continues to spread and impact
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: more deer herds, more hunters. Um, you know, we need
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: some good news and every little advantage that we have
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: gets us a little bit closer to being able to
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: do something to stop this disease. Yeah, could you expand
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: on the soil uh topic, with that research has shown,
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: is that something you feel comfortable expanding on. Sure, there's
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: been some research and we know Once cwds in an
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: area in the environment, um, the prions stay in the
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: ground and can it affect other deer. So for example,
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: if the deer has CWD positive and it urinates or
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: defecates in the ground, um, other deer coming can tech
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: with that and then they can contract the disease. This
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: is why when you get it the disease, you know
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: you can the outlaw a baiting, the outlaw feeding the
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: outlaw mineral licks because they don't want deer swamping, you know,
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: spit or eating where another deer urinator defecated because they
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: can contract the disease. Well, we also know that wherever
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: that imprions are on the ground, there are certain plants
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: growing there that can actually uptake those preons up through
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: the plant and have them in their leaves. So if
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: another animal comes to each those leaves, you know there
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: is a chance that that deer can contract the disease
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: from that. So, man, this is in the environment. We
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: can't decontaminate environment. You know this, this is a bad deal. Well,
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: now researchers have seen with this humic acid or some
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: of these different soil properties. Hey, you know what, maybe
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: now there's something that just is a natural word to
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: these preons. So they don't understand exactly how to use
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: that to our benefits yet, but it's way different than
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: everything else we have seen in the environment where certain
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: proud or certain soils like clay soils especially, tend to
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: bind these prions more tightly and can you know potentially
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: in fact dear at a higher rate in those type
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: of soils. Well, now, the humic acid, there's something about
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: these soils that make the way less susceptible, make dear
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: way less susceptible to this disease. So even though they
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: don't understand the entire connection yet, we have identified something
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: that may help us in this battle against c w D.
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: So there's a lot of pieces that still have to
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: be put together, but at least it's a step in
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: the right direction, because you know, there's there's nothing that
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: we know of until very recently that we could could
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: decontaminate any area where the disease was so, you know, so,
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: but it's the more we understand about how to do that,
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: then the better job we can do at limiting spread
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: of these preons and trying to get rid of them
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: once they are there. So, um, every little bit helps
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: for sure, even if we don't have all the pieces
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: put together. Yeah, at least that is a very positive step. Yeah,
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: you don't think that sending fire trucks full of bleach
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: to sprawl over the county, isn't That isn't a really
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: good a solution. Not. Yeah. Yeah, And it's funny because
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: when they came out with the research about using bleach
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: to clean the knives, you know, they have big letters
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: and make it very cular. Hey, this does not work
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: on tissue. Don't put up because you know, the first
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: time somebody reads that and say, hey, well if it
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: cleans my life, what if I just soaked his backstrap?
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: So um so yeah. So no, it does not doesn't
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: get into tissue at all. It's only on stainless steel.
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: So if your deer is not made a stainless steel,
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: don't try to clean that with the bleach. And I
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: hope you're not shooting any stainless steel deer. That's right,
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: Speaking of trying to battle CWD. Though you did allude
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: earlier to uh, this whole topic of antlerless harvest and
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: the importance of focusing on does when it comes to
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: managing c w D. There's a lot of talk about
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: the importance of buck harvest when trying to contain CWD
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: because bucks tend to disperse more um. But I know
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: you wrote an article and you've been trying to make
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: sure people understand that you can't forget about does. Can
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: you talk about that a little bit? Sure? So much
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: of the fight against c W d UM focuses on
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: killing bucks, and the reason for that is because bucks
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: carry the disease at a higher rate than does And
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: then there's some great data from from multiple states that
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: show that, you know, adult bucks are about twice as
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: likely to have it as adult does. Yearling box are
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: more likely to have it than yearling does. So a
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: lot of the effort has been a hey, man, don't
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: let these bucks get old. We gotta kill them, you know,
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: before they take this disease, you know, and it infect everybody. Well.
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: In doing that, a lot of the educational campaigns by
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: agencies and and even a lot of deer managers get
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: so focused on the buck side that I think that,
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: you know, they're going to lose the war. And what
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: I mean by that is there's four big reasons and
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: this is what I wrote about to not forget about
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: the dose. One is that some some great research out
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: of Wisconsin show that just because of the social order
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: of deer, bucks tend to be a lot more loaners
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: where dose you know, they just live in these family groups.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: So if a dough had a relative nearby that was
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: CWD positive, that dough was ten times more likely to
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: have the disease. So what that means is these family groups,
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: as soon as one of them hits the disease, you know,
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: everybody else in that group is much more likely to
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: get it. Once they get it, they then become these
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: reservoirs of the disease and the environment that we can't
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: we can't decontamine it, we can't get rid of it.
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: So we need to absolutely minimize the opportunity for this happening,
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: and that happens by shooting antalist deer and keeping deer
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: herds and balance with the habitat. So that's one. The
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: second thing is part of the reason that some agencies
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: focus effort on young bucks or say hey, we need
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: to take off these anil and restrictions to kill these
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: yelling bucks. It's because these yearing bucks disperse, and there's
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: lots of research that shows that when bucks are twelve
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: to eighteen months old, half to three quarters of them
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: are going to disperse from where they were born and
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: set up their own home range. And then they tend
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: to do this one to five miles away. So some
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: upset it's holy cows, they're gonna sco they might take
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: the disease with them and introducing into a new area.
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: Let's kill them. And and there's certainly some warrant to
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: that that when they disperse, they can go as a disease.
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: But by focusing all that after on those young bucks,
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: we end up then killing fewer Anilois deer. Well, some
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: very brand new research out of Minnesota and Southeast Minnesota
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: specifically is following young bucks and young doughs, and what
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: they're finding is their young bucks are dispersing at about
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: exactly the same rate as that all the other studies show,
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: but their dos are dispersing at about the exact same rate.
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: So while half the three quarters of the young bucks
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: are leaving, half to the three quarters of the young
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: does are too. They're dispersing, and they're dispersing almost as far.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: So there's a you know, opportunity for them to spread
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: this disease too. So we can't focus too much of
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: the effort just on those young bucks. We need to
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: be focusing it on the doors as well, or our
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: efforts are lost. The third thing is, and I think
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: this is one of the biggest things Mark I've fully
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: have seen that they did understand that adult box are
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: about twice as likely to have the disease as adult does. However,
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: what people forget about is take any place in the country,
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: or just about any place in the country, certainly any
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: place outside of South Texas, any given deer herd has
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: way more than two adult does for every adult buck.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: So take where you are. Okay, maybe you're doing a
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: good job managing and you've got you know, one or
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: two five year old bucks on the property. I will
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: promise you have more two or four or five year
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: old does. So what happens is, even though those bucks
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: are voices likely had a disease. You know, every deer
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: heard that we see has more than twice as many
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: adult dose as adult box So even though they are
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: less likely to have the disease, just by sheer numbers
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: of those does on the landscape, there will always be
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: more CWD positive does then c w D positive bucks
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: out there. So if we're going to manage this disease,
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: we have got to be killing those doughs. And you
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: and I talked about it earlier, where less than half
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: of the hunters kill a deer only kill more than
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: one deer. Take Michigan. You can kill two bucks in Michigan.
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: So what happens is so many of these people end
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: up shooting a buck or shoot two bucks where and
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: then they don't shoot those doughs. You know, they're not
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: sharing that meat with others. And so we are absolutely
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: going the wrong way. And that's why I've told people, Hey,
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: if you focus all of your effort on young bucks
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: or on bucks in general, um, hey, that's the wrong
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: way to do. You can win this buck battle, which
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: you're gonna lose the disease war. You absolutely are. So
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: do we need to shoot box? We certainly do, But
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: we need to be focused on even more effort on
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: the antle the side. And this is especially true once
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: you're in the CWD zone. Yeah, great and great point.
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: Has there been any I know, I think if I
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: remember right, Minnesota was kind of updated their plan for
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: CWD recently. Is there anything new or innovative or useful
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: that we've learned over the last year as far as
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: management strategies, because this is always the controversial thing. Hunters
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: are always up in arms about how a state decides
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: to manage CWD once it arrives. Um, is there anything
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: new on that front or that's being tried? Uh? I
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: think last year we talked about this a little bit
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: and you were encouraged with with one state. I honestly
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: can't remember which it was now, but I don't know
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: anything new on that front, or we're just kind of
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: doing the same old, same old. Well, the folks are
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: definitely looking as some new things, and partly because they're
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: starting to understand, you know, this need to to get
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: more effort on the dough side. UM. Pennsylvania is actually
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: probably the best example right now because they are going
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: through an update of their CWD plan and they have
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: taken a stance which I think is exactly right. They
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: have gone out to the hunters and their disease zones
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: and have admitted right in front, hey, we can't do
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: this without you. We need your help. We want you
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: to be the saviors and all of this and help
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: us battle this disease, and we want you to do
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: this by shooting you know x number of antle list dear.
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: You know we need to increase the antlest side. So
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: here's the deal. We are very We know that we
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: can come in with targeted removal after the season with
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: sharp shooters, you know, and shoot these extra deer um.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: You don't want us to do this. We don't want
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: to have to do that. We would much rather work
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: with you during the hunting season and have you shoot
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: more antalyst deer than you have in the past. You're
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: still going to have very honorable populations to do when
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: we're done. We're not asking you to go to zero
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: with the deer, but we do need you to shoot more, dear.
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: Here's why. And they're doing a great job education sharing
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: this information. And if you can hit these harvest rates
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: that we need kind of similar to some of the
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: stuff that's going on in Michigan and that disease of
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: research area. If you can hit these harvest totals of
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: ant list, dear, then there will be no targeted removal postseason.
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: You know. If you don't hit them, then you know,
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: we're gonna be forced to come in and do this,
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: But please, we want to do this with you first.
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: So my take on it is is it is the
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: first time in an agency like that has really reached
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: out and truly try to be a good partner for
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: the hunters and let them know right up front, you
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: guys are the ones, guys and gals that will make
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: or break this program. You know, we need you, we
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: know we can't do it without you. And just that
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: reaching you know, and trying to develop that relationship, man,
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: that goes a long way to getting support from not
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: all of the landowners and hunters but sure, but from
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: a lot of them. So I think that is the
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: ticket to solve on this issue moving forward, stronger relationships
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: because hunters are absolutely needed and if they understand how
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: they can help, they are more likely to help. So
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: education is the key to that big you know, strong
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: educational campaigns. So anyway, I think that's a pretty exciting
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: thing and I'm excited to see where it goes here.
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: I think that makes a lot of sense. So so
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: speaking of other important ways that hunters can partner with
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: with whether it be managing agencies or legislators that are
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: in some ways impacting the population or the resource. Um,
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: I know, there's a number of different things that you
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: do and the conservation side of QT may works on
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: as far as policies, as far as pushing various proposals,
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: are supporting various things that are they're ongoing in different states. UM,
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: I'm curious what some of the major things things is
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: the wrong word I'm blanking on the right word here, Um,
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: but some of the various proposals or pieces of legislation
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: or or anything ongoing across the country that you think
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: that hunters need to know about and put our support behind. Um.
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: You know, I know there's this uh Pittman Robertson Modernization
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: Act that's out there. I'm curious if that's something we
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: should be paying more attention to. I know there's been
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: a proposal put out there to protect boundary waters, which
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: I know you guys have lent your support to, which
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: I think is awesome. UM. Are those things that we
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: should be talking more about? Is there anything else in
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: your radar that we need to kind of rally around? What?
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: What do we need to know about? What you just mentioned?
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: Both of those are great and and good for all
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: sportsmen and women. UM. The one big thing right now
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: that we really could use support for that is going
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: to benefit all hunters is there's a fair number of
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: federal bills out there right now that are looking at
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: increasing federal funding for CWD research and management and U.
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: Back when you know, the early two thousands, there was
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: close to twenty million and federal dollars that the state
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: agency has got to manage c w D to sample
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: and all that well, all that money is gone. It
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: was as soon as they figured out the CWD likely
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: couldn't impact humans, all that money dried up. So all
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: of the sampling that's done today and surveillance and monitoring,
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: the vast majority that's coming right out of the state
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: agency budgets. And man, wouldn't it be better if our
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: states could use that for things like hunter access and
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: habitat enhancement and UM, So there's a we are pushing
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: hard with some of these federal legislators to get this
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: federal funding which would allow agencies to then use more
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: of their own budgets on cool things like habitat enhancement
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: in that so that is the one thing that hunters
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: can get behind. UM it was a great push last
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: year and we thought we were going to get about
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: fifteen million in federal funding for the states. UM it
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: didn't end up happening. That will be reintroducing again this year,
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: and that probably probably arguably is the single most important
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: bill like that the hunters can get behind to really
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: make a difference with what we have both now to
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: hunt deer and in the future. Okay, well, when that
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: gets reintroduced, I will definitely be railing the troops to
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: get behind that again. I know that that research money
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: and just knowledge. We're just lacking so much information still
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: and it seems like the only way to the only
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: way to get that is to get money behind it,
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: get the research going, and um cross their fingers and
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: toes that's right. Outside of legislation. One thing, the best
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: thing that hunters can do, though, is take somebody else hunting,
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: expose somebody new, take them, introduce them to the sport.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: That's cheap, that's easy. We all can do that. So, uh,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: I challenge everybody this year to to get somebody and
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: expose them, you know, at least once to the woods
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: and uh, you know, hopefully multiple times. So as a
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: great place to leave us off here today, lots of
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: great information, Kip, I appreciate you sharing it with us
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: today and taking all the time to put together report
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: for people that want to see this whole thing, the
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: whole report and get all there's a lot more that
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: we didn't cover. Where can they find that? They can
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: go right to q DMA dot com. Um, we have
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: all of our way to reports on the website is
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: free downloads, so they can go and grab it and
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: have a blast searching through and seeing how they stay
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: compares to others. Very good stuff, Kip, Thank you for
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: your time, absolutely Mark, thank you. Awesome job with the
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: back forward and everything you do for conservation and man
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: can't wait to read your book. Thank you. I appreciate
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: it and that is going to do it. Thank you
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. Appreciate you listening. Lots of
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: cool stuff coming up. We're kind of retooling, figuring out
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: what the plan is going to be for new ideas,
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: new projects, new hunts, new stories, new guests. Lots of
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: cool stuff on the way, So stick around and until
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: next time, stay wired to Hunts.