Latest / Paranormal Lens - A Crossroads Of Curiosities, LLC Production / Sam and Colby are the NEW Ed and Lorraine Warren (NOT CLICKBAIT)

Transcript

Sam and Colby are the NEW Ed and Lorraine Warren (NOT CLICKBAIT) · Paranormal Lens - A Crossroads Of Curiosities, LLC Production

0:00
Yeah! Coming up... We're literally pondering
0:03
and musing on perhaps the biggest questions the
0:07
entire human species of storytellers have ever
0:10
asked, and that is, what is the meaning of life,
0:12
and what happens next? Zach Bagans is the bridge
0:15
between Ed and Lorraine Warren and Sam and Kobe.
0:18
Yeah, honestly? Oh, look! It's a bird! It's a
0:24
plane! It's a big, bold plane! Okay, I have a
0:32
big, bold claim to make. That sucked. That sucked?
0:36
It sucked. Okay, I mean, this is gonna be our
0:40
hot take episode, and if your hot take is that
0:42
sucked, then... Okay. We're starting off great
0:45
already. You're coming out swinging, I'm coming
0:48
out swinging. We all coming out swinging. I'm
0:53
not swinging, I'm just... I'm sitting. I'm here.
0:56
You're sitting. Yas. Slay! You know who slayed
1:06
50 years ago? Who? Adam Lorraine Warren. You
1:14
know who slays now? Hashtag Sam and Colby. Drumroll,
1:20
please. Is that your dog participating? Yep.
1:26
I thought it was a drumroll at first. Don't just,
1:30
like, whack your mic. And I was like, wait, that's
1:31
actually, like, sound like a dog. Yeah, no, she's
1:34
being sassy, so. Get this, guys. Sam and Colby
1:38
are the new Ed and Lorraine Warren. That is a
1:42
very bold claim, and I have thoughts about it.
1:44
Welcome to our podcast, where we take deep dives
1:47
looking at various topics through a paranormal
1:49
lens. So why do you say Sam and Colby are the
1:56
modern Ed and Lorraine Warren? yeah yeah so first
2:01
some uh brief context so we were at the amazing
2:04
and i guess we can like just briefly give a big
2:07
shout out because like we have so much we can
2:08
say about it um because it was Probably the best
2:11
paranormal convention we've ever been to. The
2:13
Paranormal Research Symposium in Gettysburg was
2:15
this past weekend. We're not going to do a big
2:17
full recap like we initially discussed a couple
2:19
months ago because since all of us will be publishing
2:22
our work and our research in a journal, it'll
2:24
be published in April, we decide instead just
2:27
to have everyone on. You know, we networked.
2:29
It was a great event. We met a lot of cool people.
2:31
Let's bring them on the podcast. Let's actually
2:33
have them speak about what they were presenting
2:35
on instead of us trying to repeat it by memory.
2:37
Because that would not end well. So we're going
2:40
to actually have some guests on coming up, hopefully,
2:42
to talk about their research. And then everyone's
2:46
research will be published in a journal that
2:49
everyone on the internet, all of you listening,
2:51
you can buy this journal filled with the most
2:54
innovative, boundary -pushing paranormal research
2:57
of 2026. It'll be coming out, I think, in April.
3:01
It's really great. It really is. Yeah, we learned
3:04
a lot. We saw a lot. Gettysburg was awesome.
3:07
I mean... Angela was the only one out of the
3:10
three of us who's ever been to Gettysburg. It's
3:12
so crazy because every facet of the trip was
3:16
11 out of 10 amazing. It's easy to forget that
3:20
probably the most long -lasting benefit and memory
3:25
that we'll have after the kind of glory of Gettysburg
3:30
and Pennsylvania fades is all the stuff we learned
3:34
and networked and talked to people about. These
3:37
are things we'll be thinking about for a while.
3:39
But the last speaker, the context, the last speaker
3:43
of the Paranormal Research Symposium was Zach
3:46
Bell, who is the creative director of Sam and
3:47
Kobe. And there were a lot of really interesting
3:52
things discussed in that panel that I've been
4:00
thinking about that led me. This isn't anything
4:03
he said. It's just my thoughts after. I came
4:07
to the conclusion, personally, individually,
4:09
okay, that Sam and Kobe are the new Adam Lorraine
4:17
Warren. And this, to your question, Brie, is
4:20
a little bit about why I came to this conclusion.
4:23
And during the span of this episode, let's avoid
4:26
talking about our opinions on either, okay? This
4:32
isn't about if we like Sam and Kobe, if we like
4:35
the Warrens. We're not going down that rabbit
4:37
hole. That would be so hard. But yes. I will
4:41
do my best. We need to, though, acknowledge and
4:45
appreciate the fact that Ed and Lorraine Warren,
4:49
despite how you feel about them, because, hate
4:52
to break it to you, in case you didn't know,
4:55
there's a lot of opinions about the Warrens.
4:58
Really? Sorry. Yeah. My point is, anyone with
5:05
half a brain cell, can acknowledge and appreciate
5:07
that the Warrens, love them or hate them, were
5:12
highly influential and inspired an entire generation
5:16
of people to investigate the paranormal. And
5:21
so much of what we nowadays would probably call
5:25
the old guard, if you want to be a little harsher,
5:28
the gatekeepers of the paranormal. Basically,
5:32
everyone like a generation before us being...
5:35
you know, in our 20s, everyone was influenced
5:38
by the Warrens. The Warrens, whether or not you
5:41
agree with their practices, whether or not you
5:43
think they were good people, whether or not you
5:45
agree with anything that they did, you have to
5:49
acknowledge that they really set forward, popularized
5:54
the idea of what it was like and what it meant
5:57
to be a paranormal investigator. A lot of terms,
6:00
a lot of jargon, a lot of frameworks and ways
6:03
of thinking about things. so many people still
6:06
carry were either introduced by or popularized
6:13
by the warrens and i think in my opinion here
6:16
and again i'm kind of walking right up to that
6:19
line i said we wouldn't do about sharing our
6:21
you know thoughts about the warrens but yeah
6:23
procrit i know i'm walking up to the line i'm
6:25
joking i'm joking the thing i think the warrens
6:30
did best were Not hunting ghosts. The things
6:34
I think the Warrens did best were they were amazing
6:38
storytellers and marketers. Now, we're not going
6:44
to comment on Annabelle here. As hard as it is
6:48
to do, all I'm going to say about Annabelle is
6:50
it is impressive to me that way back when, before
6:55
the paranormal was... you know the giant industry
6:59
it is now that they were able to take a doll
7:01
with like one paranormal claim about it that
7:04
can be verified one tiny story and turn it into
7:07
a massive story the marketing and the branding
7:11
around annabelle and the ability to craft such
7:14
a compelling story around it that caused a whole
7:17
generation of people to fear it is impressive
7:21
to me yeah It's very impressive when you think
7:26
about it. They toured the country. They knew
7:27
it had to be presented in a way that you understood
7:32
the people, Adam, Lorraine, you had to understand
7:35
them, and you had to understand from a story
7:38
perspective what the stakes were, who the people
7:40
were, have a framework of understanding, and
7:44
really bring the people in and create a community
7:46
around it. They really connected with the people.
7:49
But then there's kind of the flip side to that
7:52
too, where... We go to a lot of paranormal conventions,
7:55
and at any paranormal convention, at least in
8:00
our experience, at every one we've been to, there's
8:02
always that one person in the back of the convention
8:05
hall that their entire identity, it seems, is
8:10
built upon the fact that they met Ed and Lorraine
8:12
Warren once, that they were on so -and -so case
8:17
back in the day in the 80s with Ed and Lorraine,
8:20
or that... Their sisters, brothers, fiancés,
8:23
mother -in -laws, cousins, brothers, boss was
8:27
dating Eddie Lorraine's daughter at one point.
8:30
And now their entire identity is that they are
8:35
a demonologist. And they're really just capitalizing
8:38
on the Warrens. You know that's true. There's
8:40
always that one person whose entire identity
8:43
is the Warrens. Even though they don't have any
8:45
clear connection to them. It seems everyone,
8:48
if you... pool of 100 people that are demonologists,
8:52
I guarantee 10 are going to say they are the
8:55
cousin of Ed and Lorraine or some wild thing
8:58
like that. Or inspired by Ed and Lorraine. Not
9:02
just inspired. These are people because there's
9:04
a lot of people that are inspired. Modern ghost
9:06
hunting is inspired by Ed and Lorraine Warren.
9:09
This is a different class of people who their
9:13
entire identity is a loose connection to the
9:16
Warrens. That's the Warrens. Now, Sam and Colby,
9:20
these days, are highly influential. I'd argue
9:25
the most influential. Very, yes. Paranormal investigators
9:29
of this generation. Now, there is a theory out
9:32
there about, like, the 50 -year cycle, where,
9:36
like, every 50 years, what was once, like, this
9:39
has to do with, like, pop culture. Like, what
9:42
was once fashionable and trendy 50 years ago,
9:45
it kind of... gets outdated, and then it comes
9:47
back 50 years later. That's why, like, now, like,
9:49
the 80s and, like, synth music and stuff is,
9:51
like, really popular. Like, every 50 years or
9:54
so, things kind of come back. So, coincidentally,
9:57
this is 50 years since Warren's peak. Now we're
10:01
seeing another peak in two people who are highly
10:04
influential on how an entire generation interacts
10:09
with and researches and talks about the paranormal.
10:15
So 50 years ago, we saw a huge cultural boom,
10:19
interest in the paranormal, income, Ed and Lorraine
10:22
Warren, and they influenced how an entire generation
10:24
interacts with it and talks about it and researches
10:27
it. Now, because of many things, the boom of
10:30
television, paranormal television in 2013, 2014,
10:33
ironically also The Conjuring came out around
10:36
that time, which introduced a lot of people to
10:39
the idea of the Warrens. I don't know if that
10:41
kind of... Plays into this somehow ironically,
10:44
perhaps. Yeah. And then you got COVID, which
10:48
obviously, you know, that had a lot to do with
10:51
Sam and Kobe kind of coming into popularity.
10:55
They kind of hit at the right time where people
10:57
were on the internet. It's just everything aligned,
10:59
it seemed. We're following a big boom and spike
11:02
in interest in this stuff. And then it kind of
11:05
dies down. In come two people who really understand
11:10
how to tell a story. how to craft a story, how
11:13
to resonate with people, how to market their
11:15
research and what they do, and resonate with
11:18
a huge group of people to the point where they
11:22
are literally influencing how people perceive
11:25
the paranormal, talk about the paranormal, and
11:27
investigate the paranormal. Now, just like how
11:29
the Warrens have all the people who are inspired
11:32
by them and also use them as their sole identity
11:35
at conventions, you have all the young people
11:37
who go out and buy paranormal equipment as seen
11:41
on TV and their whole identity is they want to
11:43
be Sam and Colby. So that's the downside of Sam
11:45
and Colby. It's all these youngsters who aren't
11:48
perhaps real investigators, but are, you know,
11:50
just want to be Sam and Colby. That's the same
11:53
downside as, as the Warrens. Okay. You understand
11:55
there's on both sides of it. You have people
11:58
whose whole identity are these two figures in
12:01
the paranormal, but you also have the tremendous
12:03
impact that I don't think we fully know how it's
12:06
going to shake out now with the Sam and Colby.
12:09
uh uh i don't want to say craze but the sam and
12:11
kobe kind of uh takeover in the paranormal where
12:14
all the young kids you go on any uh uh any tick
12:18
tock live that we do any uh long form content
12:21
the number one comment we get is do you know
12:24
sam and kobe do you know sam and kobe oh my god
12:27
sam and kobe went there guess what 50 years from
12:31
now i i mentioned the conjuring movies there's
12:35
a whole franchise of movies it's The locations
12:38
that the Warrens went to are popular and maintain
12:42
a place in pop culture because of the Warrens'
12:45
connection. You're going to see the same thing
12:47
with Sam and Colby. Yep. I won't be surprised
12:51
if 50 years from now there's a fictional movie
12:53
called Sam and Colby. That is just like... basically
13:04
the conjuring movies but about like the elementary
13:07
school they own or whatever the fuck they just
13:09
saw a demon caught on camera for real not clickbait
13:12
um who knows these places are popular now because
13:19
of the connection you already see that happening
13:20
now with people we post about a place and they
13:22
say oh sam and kobe went there It's the same
13:25
kind of concept or notion of the Warrens popularizing
13:28
a place. And the way and some of the theories
13:31
that the Warrens popularized still maintain a
13:34
place. Same with Sam and Colby. A lot of how
13:36
they talk about the paranormal and present the
13:39
paranormal you see has a lasting impact on how
13:42
viewers interact with other people's content.
13:46
and really push the narrative forward especially
13:48
since these are the same people who are buying
13:50
the sam and kobe spirit boxes and emf meters
13:52
that you see on the youtube and are going out
13:55
and trying to be like sam and kobe just like
13:56
the warrants influence the whole generation of
13:58
people anyways i've been talking way too long
14:00
reactions that's kind of the gist of what i was
14:04
thinking about Yeah, I think, you know, when
14:07
you put it in that way, because like when you
14:08
first stated Sam and Colby are the new Ed and
14:12
Lorraine Warren, I'm like, how is that? Because
14:15
Ed and Lorraine Warren weren't technically ghost
14:18
hunters. Ed was a demonologist and Lorraine was
14:21
a psychic and they went into locations to, you
14:26
know, prove this. Was there anything called a
14:30
ghost hunter back then? Um, probably. I don't
14:35
know. I don't know. I just feel like they are
14:38
ghost hunters. There just wasn't a word for that
14:41
back then. Who knows? I wasn't living then. I
14:44
wouldn't know. Are Sam and Kobe ghost hunters?
14:49
Yes. You would say they're ghost hunters? I don't
14:52
know. I've never watched any of their things.
14:54
Yeah, we've never watched a full Sam and Kobe
14:56
video. I feel like people put the term ghost
15:00
hunters with Sam and Kobe. I could be wrong,
15:03
though, because we haven't ever watched any of
15:05
their videos. I think the longest I've ever watched
15:08
any of their videos was for five minutes. And
15:11
then you interrupted me. And so I turned it off.
15:14
We're going to get back to that later. the idea
15:16
of like not watching a full video but um point
15:20
being for now i i just i think taking the term
15:23
ghost hunter out of it yeah when you think of
15:26
it in the way that they have influenced the paranormal
15:29
community and paranormal investigating and paranormal
15:34
in general i think yeah probably we're gonna
15:39
see the like like you said the warrens like drew
15:44
a lot of attention to this community and what
15:47
it is and it's built on from there i mean back
15:52
in the day with ed and lorraine warren you would
15:55
have never thought about there being a paranormal
15:57
research symposium yeah and now there is probably
16:02
in the future there's going to be some sort of
16:04
thing that is new and grand because sam and colby
16:10
brought so much to the paranormal field and brought
16:15
in that new generation of the younger crowd interested
16:18
in the paranormal and and that's that's what
16:21
i really like about it it's there's so many people
16:25
who on sam and kobe it's like we're not haters
16:29
we're not lovers we are neutral but there are
16:32
people who really do love them and are very are
16:37
influenced by them and there will like the the
16:40
speaker zach said he believes that there will
16:46
be people who come out of being a fan of them
16:49
and like do their own thing and not just necessarily
16:53
focus on sam and kobe as being their identity
16:57
for ghost hunting or whatever i think everyone
17:00
uh even within the salmon kobe camp again I'm
17:04
just speculating here. I think everyone, including
17:07
them, would disagree with the notion that anyone
17:10
should come out of a video thinking, I want to
17:14
be Sam and Colby. I think they are planting a
17:17
lot of seeds, and we already see that happening
17:19
now. I would definitely say, in my opinion, that
17:22
the next big breakthrough of someone really guiding
17:29
the way uh, of where the paranormal community
17:32
is headed is going to come out of a Sam and Kobe
17:35
video or a fan. Um, yeah. I mean, I mean, I don't
17:40
know how many people like who listened to our
17:43
podcast, like are aware of how many people follow
17:47
them and are obsessed with them, but it's a lot.
17:50
It's not even obsessed. It's, it's, it's people.
17:53
They, they are really talented at what they do.
17:56
Listen, I have so much respect for Sam and Kobe.
17:59
And I have no problem saying that. They are doing
18:01
great things for the paranormal community. And
18:04
if you don't think that... People could argue
18:05
that, but that's not for right now. Yeah, okay,
18:08
but they are. This isn't, again, commenting on
18:13
the quality of what they do or how they investigate
18:18
or nitpicking they should be more like this.
18:21
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter, just
18:24
like it doesn't matter... whether or not you
18:26
agree with everything the Warrens did. Both Sam
18:28
and Kobe and the Warrens have a tremendous impact
18:32
on the way forward. Now, Sam and Kobe are actively
18:36
and still making content. So with that comes
18:38
great responsibility, you know, and they're already
18:42
straying. According to Zach Bell in the presentation,
18:45
they're straying away from the whole demon thing.
18:48
And, you know, you can say what you want and
18:50
it's a real problem. Yeah. Now... One thing I
19:23
don't understand though, and this might be a
19:25
separate issue, but one thing I don't understand
19:27
is a lot of the people that are huge Ed and Lorraine
19:33
Warren fanboys tend to be in the old guard, tend
19:36
to be the gatekeepers of the paranormal, tend
19:38
to be older people, no offense, have this idea
19:42
that the Sam and Colby investigators are somehow
19:46
different or don't belong in the same... normal
19:49
field as DeWarren investigators. What do you
19:54
guys make of that? The first thing that my mind
19:57
goes to is that the people who think that are
20:01
also the people who think this hobby is extremely
20:04
boring. The only way to get evidence is just
20:06
sitting there waiting for something to make a
20:08
sound or move. Yeah, the people are very much
20:13
critical. Sam and Kobe, it's like, that's not
20:16
the case. They don't really... do that. I don't
20:20
think. Yeah, that's the people who are very much
20:22
in the camp of the paranormal is becoming too
20:26
televised and for entertainment and it's no longer
20:30
being taken seriously. Very much stems from a
20:34
belief that the Warren's Protocol should not
20:37
be broken ever and if you have fun investigating
20:41
that you're not doing it for the right reasons.
20:44
And another thing that Zach said too. during
20:47
his presentation is, what is the right reason?
20:50
There's not really is a right reason. There isn't
20:54
necessarily, like, a right reason, but there
20:57
can be wrong reasons, if that makes sense. Everyone
21:02
has their own right reasons, though. There are
21:05
wrong reasons. But get this, okay, so when we
21:07
go out and investigate, 90 % of the time when
21:11
we investigate, these days, you know, because
21:13
it's hard enough to coordinate times, we live...
21:16
Different places have big boy jobs, right? Brie
21:20
has a job. I have a job. Inside joke. It's hard
21:27
enough to get investigations going and scheduled.
21:30
So when we do an investigation, we're going there
21:33
more than likely to film something or to make
21:36
a documentary about it. That's usually the reason
21:39
we book them. How is that different than, you
21:44
know, quote unquote. going for entertainment
21:47
purposes and is that a valid reason to book an
21:51
investigation i mean but here's the thing a lot
21:54
of people i feel like there's a lot of people
21:57
who would probably shit on us just for going
21:59
to a location to film for a project i mean that
22:03
is entertainment and i feel like also when we
22:06
did our panel i don't remember exactly what the
22:08
question was but you said neither the question
22:13
was What got you into it? The science side or
22:15
the paranormal side first? And I said neither
22:18
because I started in the film side. Everyone
22:20
knows our origin story. Yeah. And I think a lot
22:23
of people probably in the back of their head
22:26
was shitting on you for that. I'm not going to
22:29
lie, Ben. I got. Yeah, I'm not going to lie.
22:33
I don't think I think a lot of people don't in
22:37
the paranormal sense don't like it. for the filming
22:41
and art aspects of it. A lot of people are like,
22:45
it's only for the science. It's only about the
22:47
facts. It's only about blah, blah, blah, the
22:50
right reasons or whatever. But I loved how you
22:53
full on just said it was like, yeah, I do it
22:56
for the story. I do it for the entertainment.
22:58
I do it for the storytelling. I don't do it for
23:00
entertainment. I do it for storytelling. That's
23:02
the difference. Is storytelling not entertainment?
23:05
So storytelling versus entertainment. So if you're
23:11
making a film, a documentary would be storytelling.
23:18
So you got the history, the story, all that jazz.
23:22
Entertainment would be clickbaity. Hey, there's
23:25
demons here. Yeah, entertainment doesn't have
23:27
to be a story. Entertainment actually is lacking
23:30
any substance or storytelling. and i'd argue
23:34
is an artful storytelling humans are storytelling
23:37
species we tell stories what is oral history
23:40
you know yes people are entertained they sit
23:44
around the campfire they tell stories they keep
23:46
legacies and traditions alive that is human nature
23:49
that does have you know side effects positive
23:52
side effects like oh we are entertained What
23:56
happened before TV shows? Before people had TVs,
24:00
they told stories. We are storytellers. Yes,
24:03
they can be entertaining, but they aren't created
24:05
for the intention of just empty entertainment.
24:09
I get what you mean. Obviously, there's the caveat
24:13
of if you present something in a very boring
24:15
way, you know. You're not going to reach an audience
24:19
and you're not going to be able to tell your
24:20
story. So that's the difference. We don't go
24:22
in for the purpose of creating empty entertainment.
24:25
We are telling stories that happen to be entertaining
24:27
because why the fuck would it not be entertaining?
24:31
We're literally pondering and musing on perhaps
24:34
the biggest questions the entire human species
24:37
of storytellers have ever asked. And that is,
24:40
what is the meaning of life and what happens
24:42
next? Those are big questions, daunting questions.
24:46
And of course, any attempts to answer or even,
24:50
you know, ponder these things are going to be
24:54
entertaining. The reason I think some of these
24:56
people might have issues with this is because
25:00
what are our goals for an investigation? Because
25:03
I rejected the notion. We started nine years
25:07
ago. I rejected probably nine years ago. Like
25:11
right after we started. The idea that we would
25:13
ever answer anything. I don't think we're going
25:16
in. Looking for proof of ghosts. Or to find evidence
25:19
of ghosts. I don't even like the term evidence.
25:21
I've never used it. Unless it's like. Yeah no.
25:25
I said the same thing during the panel too. I
25:28
was like. i don't like i don't think there any
25:32
is anything such as like compelling evidence
25:34
i don't like the word evidence because none of
25:37
it is evidence there's nothing to prove what
25:39
we did is evidence you know yeah i mean i i tend
25:43
to disagree with that statement just because
25:46
i feel like we are capturing evidence of something
25:52
we're just not sure 100 what that means so like
25:58
How else would you classify it? Like, documentation?
26:02
It's the same thing as, like... I know, but,
26:04
like, shouldn't evidence be towards everyone?
26:07
Like, if you show a non -believer and you show
26:11
them, they'd be like, yeah, but non -believers
26:13
are going to be always going to find something
26:15
to disprove whatever you are showing or whatever
26:20
evidence you have shown. They're always going
26:22
to be in denial. I mean, but no matter what?
26:25
You still, like, there's science to back up stuff
26:28
and you still have, like, like, you have, we
26:34
have all the science and all the history and
26:36
all the evidence of there being dinosaurs. Right?
26:40
There's still people who don't believe that that's
26:44
real. But that's objective. That's, you can disagree
26:47
with facts and be wrong. That's why there's objective
26:49
fact. The paranormal is subjective. It's not
26:52
objective. There's nothing objective about the
26:54
paranormal. yeah but that's that's the whole
26:57
thing with the paranormal is like you are capturing
27:00
you can still call it evidence because it is
27:04
proof of something unnatural that we don't know
27:08
and don't understand oh see i just i disagree
27:13
with people who are going to come up to you and
27:15
find something to try to disprove you you're
27:21
gonna get that in every single field that's what
27:23
i'm saying is like using the argument of saying
27:25
but you're always gonna have someone who is gonna
27:29
say that that's not evidence or that's not like
27:32
you're you're always gonna have someone who's
27:34
against whatever you're putting forward that's
27:37
true in every single field like it's not just
27:40
in the paranormal what i take issue with is if
27:45
you say look i caught this evidence and it's
27:48
just like an EVP. And then if I ask, oh, what's
27:52
that evidence of? What's your response? I mean,
27:57
I need context. It is evidence that there is
28:02
something paranormal or something that we don't
28:08
understand that needs to be further explored.
28:10
Like, I don't... I take it a step further. So,
28:16
I... This is something I had an issue with when
28:19
we started in college, okay? When we were 17,
28:23
18 years old, and people wanted us to come into
28:25
their houses to investigate and stuff. I am an
28:30
18 -year -old journalism major that hunts ghosts
28:33
as a hobby. So I'm a journalism student that
28:36
didn't have to take any math classes, science
28:39
classes. And in my free time, I look for ghosts.
28:43
Lucky you. Yeah, lucky me, right? But... Why
28:47
am I looking for evidence of things I don't understand?
28:50
There's a lot of things I don't understand. I
28:53
don't need to go to a graveyard at midnight to
28:56
find evidence of how ignorant I am about many
29:00
things. I should not be the authority to say
29:02
what is evidence of things that no one on planet
29:07
Earth doesn't understand. There's a lot of things
29:10
that are very real, you know, theories or...
29:16
uh or things being studied in real science that
29:20
uh you know i physics chemistry etc if you say
29:24
look at this concept me being an idiot could
29:27
probably say oh that's paranormal because i don't
29:30
understand it i i just i think what we're doing
29:35
your point i get your point but also This field
29:39
is constantly growing and you need people from
29:42
other fields to be able to understand certain
29:45
top subjects. Just like you being a film person
29:50
and understanding film and how lenses work and
29:54
all these other things helps with the paranormal
29:57
because you're like someone may. capture an orb
30:00
and they're like oh this is a ghost and you being
30:03
in a film background can be like actually this
30:06
is what causes that and so that's what helped
30:08
grows the paranormal it's just like i saw an
30:12
article once that was like these archaeologists
30:14
discovered a tool that was buried with some some
30:18
people and they couldn't figure out what this
30:20
tool was what it was used for anything and then
30:23
an artist saw it and they're like oh That is
30:28
used for softening the edges of leather. Like
30:32
we still use that tool today. So you saying I'm
30:36
not an expert in this field, you are an expert
30:39
in a field that can help with furthering the
30:44
field of paranormal. So evidence that you say,
30:47
hey, I caught this thing. I don't totally understand
30:51
what it means, but hey. tell me what it means
30:55
or have you ever experienced something like this
30:57
is this something that tells us anything that's
31:01
why we have evidence whether you call it evidence
31:05
or not it is something that we caught something
31:09
that is captured on film audio photography what
31:15
have you and you have these experts in other
31:19
fields who can weigh in and say hey yeah this
31:22
actually is something or no this isn't actually
31:25
this is evidence of something else this is something
31:28
of this is a lens flare or this is a shadow or
31:32
this is something wacky in technology that we
31:36
don't understand because we aren't in that field
31:38
does that make sense brie you're a genius that's
31:41
that's probably the most articulate um rant of
31:47
this entire episode that's very well stated and
31:51
i totally agree in an ideal world you see i don't
31:54
like the term evidence i'd much rather use the
31:56
term data just personally i think all we're doing
31:59
is collecting data that like you said in an ideal
32:02
world this doesn't happen as frequently this
32:04
is like a utopia this doesn't really happen but
32:06
in a utopia we collect data and then a panel
32:12
of experts from all different walks of life and
32:15
areas of expertise experts in their own discipline
32:18
will come and evaluate the data to then once
32:22
these experts go through a checklist of what
32:25
it can or can't be then if it's ruled out by
32:28
every expert then we might have evidence of something
32:33
i just the term evidence seems final and so often
32:36
you say yes evidence of a ghost and that's not
32:40
at all I think we're both at the same point.
32:43
I can categorize evidence not as a finality,
32:50
whereas you do define evidence as a finality
32:53
of this is something paranormal, where it doesn't
32:56
always mean it is. Which, I guess data in that
33:00
circumstance does make more sense as the definition
33:03
of what we're collecting. But I'll use the term
33:05
evidence, like, loosely. I don't care. That's
33:08
what people use and what they understand. There
33:10
is an implication, too, that it's evidence of
33:12
a ghost. Yeah. The implication is evidence of
33:15
a ghost. It's not stated of a ghost, but that's
33:18
what people, just on social media, when you have
33:21
a 10 -second clip. Mm -hmm. Anyways, what were
33:26
we talking about? Sorry, we got way off topic.
33:28
What were we talking about? Oh, I think we were
33:33
talking about how people who were like Warren
33:38
Stans, that's probably not how we put it. Warren
33:42
Stans? Who viewed people who are paranormal investigators
33:47
now that are like Sam and Colby followers. And
33:52
the way they investigate. So another common thing
33:56
is that the Internet culture, TikTokers, YouTubers,
34:00
they're all very fast paced. And there is a big
34:03
case to be made about like the clip culture and
34:06
editing everything down to 60 seconds or less
34:08
and how everything needs to be go, go, go in
34:11
the short attention spans. But and people saying
34:13
that that's not how investigating ought to be.
34:16
Well, I don't think you can say what paranormal
34:18
investigating ought to be. I think the people
34:21
with the biggest open minds. are the ones that
34:24
are really going to push things forward. And
34:26
I don't think there is any set way. Why are people
34:29
still investigating the paranormal if Ed and
34:31
Lorraine Warren, 50 years ago, already figured
34:33
out how to do it? Why are there all these new
34:35
ways to investigate and theories emerging? Like,
34:39
it doesn't stop with Ed and Lorraine Warren.
34:42
It's not going to stop with Simon Colby. The
34:44
paranormal field will never stop. No, like, I
34:48
don't think it ever will be. One is because...
34:52
There's going to be people who disagree with
34:56
whoever. And then two, there's always going to
34:59
be curious people who want to experience for
35:01
themselves. You know? So there's never going
35:06
to be an ending to it. Even if it's proven? It
35:09
will never be proven. I mean, never say never.
35:12
Let's say hypothetical. If ghosts are proven
35:14
to be real tomorrow, I actually think that might...
35:19
the ghost hunting tourism industry might actually
35:23
see a spike because people know it's real and
35:25
there won't be a stigma about i'm a ghost hunter
35:27
it's i want to see these things that are real
35:29
i mean that's with like exotic animals once they're
35:33
found people go to zoos and see them or go to
35:35
it's just like people saying like it's been released
35:39
that aliens are real people are still out there
35:42
trying to like capture like photos and evidence
35:46
of UFOs in the sky or talk to aliens or whatever,
35:52
people are still going to try to do the same
35:54
with ghosts because we don't know anything about
35:56
them. We don't understand anything about them.
35:59
I also think there would be perhaps the biggest
36:01
shift in how we view ghosts because now that
36:04
it's all an unknown, we're just kind of building
36:06
upon the previous generation. So like Sam and
36:08
Kobe built upon kind of like the middle man.
36:11
This might be a bold claim. Zach Bagans is the
36:15
bridge between Ed and Lorraine Warren and Sam
36:16
and Kobe. yeah honestly they are um so it's kind
36:26
of just built ed and larry moran did their thing
36:28
and before them there's like hans holzer all
36:30
these other people then zach bagans ghost hunters
36:34
uh and then sam and kobe we're all just building
36:37
on each other doing things a little differently
36:39
finding your own space ideally not just being
36:42
a sam and kobe uh wannabe or an edinburgh and
36:46
warren wannabe finding your own place carving
36:49
your own place and and theories but still since
36:52
it's all unknown we're just kind of building
36:54
on each other if ghosts are proven to be real
36:56
i think there could be a significant shift in
36:58
how we actually view and approach the topic yeah
37:03
That might not even look anything like Sam and
37:07
Kobe. Thank you. I was trying to hold that in.
37:12
Just pause. Achoo! Sam and Kobe. Oh, gosh. But
37:20
I think, too, it's funny, like I was saying,
37:23
the whole notion of the internet culture being
37:26
so fast -paced. Sam and Kobe are not the poster
37:29
children for what's wrong with... how like young
37:34
people investigate no not at all they're they're
37:37
actually doing some incredibly rare and and i
37:42
think uh stand out in the term in terms of the
37:45
internet landscape of paranormal investigating
37:47
and that is a lot of people say oh all these
37:52
young kids they don't really know what it's like
37:53
to investigate they expect things to happen every
37:56
two seconds which is true to an extent we see
37:58
that on tiktok all the time with people coming
38:00
in and out and they're like oh nothing's happening
38:03
bye and it's like you've been on for like 10
38:06
seconds like have have a little a little patience
38:09
here but um so that's a real thing of people
38:12
expecting young people on there and expecting
38:14
things to be go go go that's not sam and kobe
38:16
sam and kobe they post very long videos that
38:21
have incredibly high engagement very they yeah
38:25
they go on one investigation who knows how long
38:28
they're filming no more than a night and they
38:31
edit it down to like an hour and a half and people
38:34
watch the whole thing they'll post raw footage
38:37
of their investigation people watch the whole
38:39
thing not just some millions of people are watching
38:42
raw unedited four hour plus sam and kobe videos
38:46
and let me be clear We were shown the facts at
38:53
the symposium. Yeah, there's data. He had the
38:56
whole data shown. So we're not just saying this
38:59
about opinion -wise. This is facts. And you know
39:03
for a fact, activity is not happening. We haven't
39:06
seen any of this. Because we don't watch Sam
39:09
and Colby. But I can guarantee that activity
39:13
is not happening non -stop for four hours. I
39:16
think people that watch Sam and Colby realize
39:18
more, actually, than the old generation that
39:22
this stuff is not go -go -go and have an accurate
39:25
sense of the aspects of the paranormal that is
39:28
kind of like fishing, where you pull out your
39:30
lure and not every time you cast out, a fish
39:33
is going to nibble, right? So I think Sam and
39:36
Colby fans realize that more than the older fans.
39:42
Because guess what? After the Warrens, they toured
39:45
the country. They wrote books. You think every
39:47
single minute of their investigations of just
39:50
dead time and nothing happening made it into
39:52
their books or made it into their presentations?
39:54
If you watch any of their lectures, if you read
39:57
any of their papers or anything, it's condensed.
40:01
Obviously, you're writing a book. You're telling
40:02
a story, too. It's going to be condensed. Then
40:05
you see the same people that are big fanboys
40:07
of the Warrens, they're big fanboys of the Tapps
40:10
mindset, the Tapps family, ghost hunters. Ghost
40:13
Hunters, they went out, and I know this, this
40:17
is a fact, they investigated for two nights,
40:20
edited to look like it was one night. So they
40:23
went out for two nights, eight hours each. They
40:25
were investigating for 16 hours, and that 16
40:28
hours of footage got edited down to a 15 -minute
40:32
segment. Yeah. How is watching Ghost Hunters...
40:39
Again, no offense. How is watching Ghost Hunters
40:41
an idea of how accurate investigating is and
40:46
how it's supposed to be boring and supposed to
40:48
be, you know, just patience and not everything
40:51
is go, go, go. You're editing 16 hours to 15
40:54
minutes. Meanwhile, Sam and Kobe are posting
40:56
four hours raw and everyone's watching the entire
40:59
thing. Meanwhile, people, and they get in one
41:03
four -hour video, raw, unedited, more. view time
41:07
than any ghost hunters episode got in the final
41:10
season that led to them getting you know canceled
41:12
because you know they couldn't make the 15 minutes
41:15
out of you know 16 hours entertaining enough
41:18
to hold as many people as sam and kobe do that
41:22
watch a four hour raw video was that too harsh
41:25
no I think that's totally accurate. I mean, some
41:30
people might not like to hear it, but it's true.
41:33
I don't have the attention span. I am a ghost
41:36
hunter, and I don't have the attention span to
41:37
watch Sam and Kobe. Yeah. Yeah. I barely have
41:43
the attention span to watch an episode of Ghost
41:48
Adventures. This background sound to me. I'm
41:54
not sitting there and watching it. We got to
41:57
a weird place. We're not even talking about Sam
41:59
and Colby being the new Warrens at this point.
42:02
I mean, we still kind of are. We kind of are.
42:04
I mean, everything we talked about kind of goes
42:06
into it. My whole rant about evidence has nothing
42:11
to do with Sam and Colby. But that was good.
42:15
I liked it. Any final thoughts, then, on... I
42:20
don't have a watch, and I don't know why I looked
42:23
at my wrist, but... It's half past freckle. It's
42:26
half past freckle. Where did that come from?
42:32
Freckle. Oh, is that like a real thing or do
42:35
you just make that up? No, I'm pretty sure that's
42:39
a thing. I'm pretty sure that I've heard that
42:41
somewhere. Okay, so I think once we hit the half
42:45
past freckle point, I think that... I was going
42:54
to say that must mean that we exhausted all things
42:57
to say, but say it again. Say it again. Thanks
43:04
for listening to this week's episode of Paranormal
43:13
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43:25
you, and we'll see you next Thursday for another
43:27
paranormal deep dive.