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CLASSIC: 3 Times Society Refused to Accept New Books on Science · Ridiculous History

0:00
Speaker 1: Fellow Ridiculous Historians, Welcome to this week's classic I am
0:05
Speaker 1: the bullen You or Noel Brown? Sir? Yes? Do you
0:11
Speaker 1: do you enjoy books? Jeez? Put me on the spot,
0:15
Speaker 1: why don't you?
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Speaker 2: I admittedly have struggled in recent years, just due to
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Speaker 2: the nature of our job to like really throw myself
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Speaker 2: into a good book.
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Speaker 1: I do a lot of audio books.
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Speaker 2: I'm very good at consuming and retaining things, you know, auditorily.
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Speaker 2: But man, this episode is really making me not take
0:34
Speaker 2: for granted the right to possess and read a book.
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Speaker 3: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: Yes, I'm Max Williams. By the way, I like books too. Yeah, okay,
0:44
Speaker 1: all right, he is a real reader. All right, Max?
0:47
Speaker 1: Do you recall this episode from twenty eighteen?
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Speaker 4: No, I didn't work on the show until twenty twenty one.
0:52
Speaker 4: We did do a similar two part episode about when
0:55
Speaker 4: scientists were persecuted. Despite being right, I'm assuing there's gonna
1:00
Speaker 4: be a little crossover between that and this episode.
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Speaker 1: Yes, and so, without further ado, the Three Times Society
1:09
Speaker 1: refused to accept new books on science. Ridiculous History is
1:17
Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio. Well. Well, well, we're finally getting
1:46
Speaker 1: to an episode that we have been looking forward to
1:50
Speaker 1: for a long long time. Today we're doing banned books.
1:55
Speaker 1: That's right, you two, Aerosmith, the Story of the Talking Heads,
2:03
Speaker 1: the Rolling Stones. You talking about Ben Nol. I'm talking
2:07
Speaker 1: about today's episode, folks. Let's see what you did. I
2:11
Speaker 1: had to get rid of this joke immediately. Then you're
2:13
Speaker 1: a fool. I love you. Welcome to Ridiculous History, folks.
2:17
Speaker 1: We promised that the rest of the jokes you will
2:20
Speaker 1: hear will be at least better than the one we
2:22
Speaker 1: opened with.
2:23
Speaker 2: That's how you do it. You set the bar low
2:25
Speaker 2: and then everything is just cake. After that, everything is
2:28
Speaker 2: just bonus icing. That's the way you and I approach
2:31
Speaker 2: a lot of things, man, bonus icing. Yes, And speaking
2:35
Speaker 2: of bonuses, we are, as always immensely privileged to have
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Speaker 2: our super producer Casey Pegram with us today. And you know,
2:47
Speaker 2: jokes aside, this, this is a fascinating episode. And this
2:50
Speaker 2: is a little bit like a list for us.
2:54
Speaker 1: Sort of a listical. What does a list make? Three?
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Speaker 1: Three is the minimum number require to make a list,
3:01
Speaker 1: which is a rule I agree with but I just
3:04
Speaker 1: made up back in our YouTube video Dash. Yeah, because
3:08
Speaker 1: you know, we would have to have shows that were
3:10
Speaker 1: list based, right, and there would be things where you know,
3:14
Speaker 1: five is a great number for a list, Yeah, but
3:16
Speaker 1: three is the minimum. Three is the minimum.
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Speaker 2: It almost is like, shit, you didn't want to go
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Speaker 2: the extra mile and do an even four. The answer
3:23
Speaker 2: to that today, my friends, is no, we've got a
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Speaker 2: solid three.
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Speaker 1: We've got a solid three. We've got some other things
3:30
Speaker 1: that might interest you. And this this episode is kind
3:33
Speaker 1: of inspired by our earlier discussion previous episode on the
3:37
Speaker 1: dilemma of progress versus preservations. True, So we're talking about
3:43
Speaker 1: these books that have been suppressed or yanked out of
3:49
Speaker 1: popular society.
3:51
Speaker 2: Literally physically yanked out of children's hands at times, yes,
3:54
Speaker 2: you know, by constables or something.
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Speaker 1: I don't know, right, And now the police, the book
3:59
Speaker 1: police got it the real Wait, no, no, because I
4:02
Speaker 1: know what's going to happen in this episode. No, they
4:04
Speaker 1: are real, and I don't like it. You don't want it.
4:05
Speaker 1: I don't want that, you don't want none of that.
4:07
Speaker 1: Thank you for saving me there and all keep your books, man,
4:10
Speaker 1: got to keep them. So usually when we think of
4:12
Speaker 1: books being banned, we think of, you know, fictional things like, uh,
4:17
Speaker 1: the catcher in.
4:17
Speaker 2: The Rise to Kill a Mockingbird is one that comes up,
4:20
Speaker 2: and you know, it's still taught in school, but it
4:22
Speaker 2: is one that some schools are uncomfortable.
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Speaker 1: With, right exactly. But what we're looking at today is
4:29
Speaker 1: the other side of the genre equation. You see, it's
4:32
Speaker 1: not just fictional books that get banned, burned, or pulled
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Speaker 1: from the market.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you could argue that this is, you know,
4:41
Speaker 2: more important in many ways than banning works of fiction,
4:46
Speaker 2: which obviously are culturally valuable. But we're talking about hard
4:50
Speaker 2: stuff here, hard science, science fact.
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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, things that literally changed our understanding of the world.
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Speaker 2: But to this day, some of these books are looked
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Speaker 2: at a skance by many. We're going to get into
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Speaker 2: that too.
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Speaker 1: Oh yes, yes, we have we have a great uh,
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Speaker 1: we have a great example of reference that you found
5:10
Speaker 1: that we are gonna have to put in at some
5:12
Speaker 1: point in the episode. Oh yeah, it's gonna be fun.
5:15
Speaker 1: It's that we're gonna have a musical guest. Yeah, we're
5:18
Speaker 1: gonna have a musical guest. It's gonna be a not
5:21
Speaker 1: not the first time, but one of the most enjoyable,
5:24
Speaker 1: slash disturbing. So who do we have first? The first
5:29
Speaker 1: band book, Well, it was written by a fellow named
5:33
Speaker 1: Galileo Galilei Have you heard that song by the Indigo Girls?
5:36
Speaker 1: I love it. I was thinking of it as we
5:38
Speaker 1: were going in today atl Hometown Heroes.
5:41
Speaker 2: It's a galilet or something something something over a couple
5:45
Speaker 2: of beers and.
5:48
Speaker 1: Howlo till my soul getrived? Can any human be? He
5:54
Speaker 1: never reached that kind of life then, right, beautiful singing voice. Wow,
6:00
Speaker 1: well it's cool.
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Speaker 2: It's you know, it's an interesting They do a good
6:04
Speaker 2: job of sort of personifying the quandary the Galileo faced
6:08
Speaker 2: because he was an innovator. He thought big, He had
6:12
Speaker 2: big ideas, and that was not particularly popular with many
6:17
Speaker 2: of the folks in power, especially the church. Because we're
6:19
Speaker 2: talking about the Copernican view of the solar system, right, yes, yes.
6:28
Speaker 1: Heliocentrism, the radical notion that, despite the spiritual implications, the
6:36
Speaker 1: Earth revolved around the Sun rather than the Sun and
6:40
Speaker 1: all things revolving around Earth.
6:42
Speaker 2: Now I'm a little foggy about why that that being
6:46
Speaker 2: the Ptolemaic model, correct, Yeah, why does one or the
6:49
Speaker 2: other imply more or less of a God?
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Speaker 1: So the controversy from a spiritual sense is that Earth
7:01
Speaker 1: and humanity are the protagonists of the universe. Got it,
7:04
Speaker 1: They're the main characters. That makes sense, you know. Yeah,
7:08
Speaker 1: so they're the way a child thinks, probably right, or
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Speaker 1: many adults. That's true. But the thing that was interesting
7:15
Speaker 1: about this as well is that other astronomers, not just
7:20
Speaker 1: you know, spiritual leaders, but other astronomers tried to find
7:24
Speaker 1: what they felt were quantitative arguments against heliocentrism. But his book,
7:32
Speaker 1: The Dialogue concerning the Two Chief World Systems Toolemaic and Copernican,
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Speaker 1: was a little too solid to be taken down just
7:42
Speaker 1: by attempts at rebuttal arguments.
7:45
Speaker 2: It's true, and the Spanish Inquisition gets into this game
7:49
Speaker 2: pretty quick, right in sixteen eleven. They kind of caught
7:53
Speaker 2: wind of Galileo and him espousing these Copernican views, but
7:59
Speaker 2: they sort of, you know, kept their distance. They didn't
8:02
Speaker 2: come a gun and for him right away, and he
8:05
Speaker 2: was allowed even he had pals in the papacy in
8:09
Speaker 2: the Vatican who kind of gave him some leeway. I
8:12
Speaker 2: guess they allowed him to espouse these views as long
8:15
Speaker 2: as he couched them as being mathematical theories, which is
8:20
Speaker 2: a theme that comes into play with some of our
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Speaker 2: other list entries.
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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, they micro managed the pants off this guy.
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Speaker 1: He originally intended to title this work Dialogue on the
8:32
Speaker 1: Two Chief World Systems, the Dialogue on the Ebb and
8:36
Speaker 1: Flow of the Sea, but the Inquisition made him remove
8:40
Speaker 1: the reference to tides in the title. This is twenty
8:43
Speaker 1: years later too. They've they'd known about him since the
8:46
Speaker 1: early sixteen hundred. They had their eye on him, and
8:49
Speaker 1: they were like, all right, let's see what this rabbel
8:51
Speaker 1: rouser gets up to. Then, in sixteen sixty, he kept
8:55
Speaker 1: having complaints filed.
8:56
Speaker 2: Against him right right for his views and for him
8:59
Speaker 2: his willingness to openly speak about this and to publish
9:02
Speaker 2: these works, and he finally had a complaint lodged against him,
9:07
Speaker 2: a written complaint with the Inquisition, specifically against Galileo's Copernican views.
9:13
Speaker 2: And Galileo responded by defending his views to a person
9:19
Speaker 2: by the name of Monsignor Piero Dini, who was a
9:23
Speaker 2: official at the Vatican. And then he also wrote his
9:26
Speaker 2: famous letter to the Grand Duchess Christina, basically saying, come on,
9:31
Speaker 2: I'm just asking questions here. You know, I should be
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Speaker 2: free to explore the meaning of the universe in existence
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Speaker 2: without you meddling in my affairs, you know, get out
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Speaker 2: of my face, Rome.
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Speaker 1: Right, and let's let's dive into a little bit of
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Speaker 1: this here. So earlier, Pope Urban the eighth had himself
9:52
Speaker 1: asked Galileo to argue for and against Heelio centrism because.
9:56
Speaker 2: They were kind of personal friends. It was as much
9:59
Speaker 2: as you can be with a pope, right.
10:01
Speaker 1: He asked them to put these arguments in the book,
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Speaker 1: and to be careful not to advocate Helio centrism, sort
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Speaker 1: of pull a mainstream news thing, present both sides of
10:12
Speaker 1: the argument. And he asked for another favor, and he said, hey, Galileo,
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Speaker 1: can you put my personal views about this in the book?
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Speaker 1: And Galileo did. But the problem is that the presenter
10:30
Speaker 1: of the geocentric view that Earth is the middle of everything,
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Speaker 1: the defender of that in the book is a guy
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Speaker 1: named Simplicio, not the most complimentary name, and it's like
10:41
Speaker 1: he has he's some sort of simp simple. Yeah. He
10:43
Speaker 1: comes off like a adult, yes, a dunderhead, yeah, an
10:49
Speaker 1: income boop, got it. And Galileo takes the things that
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Speaker 1: Pope Urban says and puts them in Simplicio's voice, and
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Speaker 1: so the Pope feels publicly ridiculed and is no longer
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Speaker 1: a fan of Galileo. G So Galileo gets called to
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Speaker 1: Rome to defend his controversial writings. He arrives in February
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Speaker 1: of sixteen thirty three, and he is brought to the inquisitors.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and let's also just point out that about a
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Speaker 2: decade prior or, in sixteen sixteen, he was formally accused
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Speaker 2: of heresy.
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Speaker 1: Yes, already, Yeah, so he was, he was not.
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Speaker 2: You know, the fact that he was buddies with Pope
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Speaker 2: Urban probably is what got his butt out of the
11:36
Speaker 2: frying pan a time or two. But now he is
11:39
Speaker 2: literally pissed off the one guy that was going to
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Speaker 2: help him, you know, dodge the inquisitors. And you know,
11:44
Speaker 2: no one expects the Spanish inquisition, right, we made it,
11:49
Speaker 2: We made it.
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Speaker 1: It happened. Yeah, he had a pass and Noel, I
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Speaker 1: think you put it very well when you talk about
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Speaker 1: how he's almost always skirting by yep, just on the edge,
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Speaker 1: and when it all comes to a head in sixteen thirties, right,
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Speaker 1: in sixteen thirty three, that's right, he is interrogating. He's
12:10
Speaker 1: like seventy. At this point, he's interrogated for eighteen days straight.
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Speaker 1: They eventually say, look, we're going to torture you if
12:21
Speaker 1: you don't tell us what we want to hear.
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Speaker 2: Well, it's like, what do they want him to say?
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Speaker 2: I mean, as they want him to confess to what
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Speaker 2: exactly he's a scientist?
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Speaker 1: Like he didn't.
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Speaker 2: I don't understand. I think they just wanted him to
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Speaker 2: renounce his views. I think that's what they were after, right,
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Speaker 2: They wanted him a printer and a retraction.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, he was specifically required in the sentence they delivered
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Speaker 1: in June twenty second is sixteen thirty three, he was
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Speaker 1: required to abjure, curse, and detest his heliocentric opinions. That's right.
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Speaker 2: They were basically saying that he had made too strong
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Speaker 2: a case for the Copernican view of the solar system.
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Speaker 1: And so what's the outcome here? Right, he's alienated the Pope,
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Speaker 1: He's no longer under his protection. He does get this sentence,
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Speaker 1: They tell him to renounce everything. They lay a few
13:11
Speaker 1: other clauses on him too, But do they kill him?
13:15
Speaker 1: They what happens?
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Speaker 5: Nah?
13:17
Speaker 2: They just kind of like do the sixteen hundred's equivalent
13:21
Speaker 2: of like the old ankle bracelet you know where you
13:24
Speaker 2: got to you can't leave house.
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Speaker 1: That's right, he is on permanent time out. He gets
13:30
Speaker 1: put on house arrest for the rest of his life.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think they ban his work outright, mm hmmm,
13:39
Speaker 2: like like any of it is that right.
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Speaker 1: Publication of anything he wrote was forbidden, including anything that
13:48
Speaker 1: he might write in the future.
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Speaker 2: But of course, you know, as smart people are often
13:53
Speaker 2: able to do, he persevered and did continue to write.
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Speaker 1: He figured out how to do it. Yeah. Yeah, and
13:59
Speaker 1: you have to wonder is that a fate worse than
14:01
Speaker 1: death to be so smart and so enterprising and be
14:05
Speaker 1: told that we're not going to kill you, but you
14:08
Speaker 1: cannot do the one thing they gave your life.
14:10
Speaker 2: Meaning now it makes me think of the really amazing
14:12
Speaker 2: scene in the Tanya Harding movie, which I really recommend.
14:15
Speaker 2: If you guys haven't seen it, tell you where she
14:17
Speaker 2: the judge passes down the sentence. This isn't a spoiler
14:19
Speaker 2: because this was in the news, you know, right. I
14:21
Speaker 2: think we're good here, and the judge says, you're not
14:25
Speaker 2: going to go to jail, but you can't skate professionally.
14:29
Speaker 1: Anymore.
14:29
Speaker 2: Ever, again, you can't compete, and she's just like in
14:32
Speaker 2: tears and it's like, you know, her conspirators or whatever
14:35
Speaker 2: they got jail time.
14:36
Speaker 1: She's like, just toend me to jail. Just don't. I can't.
14:40
Speaker 1: If I can't skate, what's the point you know?
14:43
Speaker 3: This is?
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Speaker 1: Yeah, but as you said, no, he does remain in
14:47
Speaker 1: the historical record, and the mark he left on the
14:52
Speaker 1: human effort to understand the world and the universe around
14:56
Speaker 1: us remains profound and crucial.
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Speaker 2: Today we didn't even talk about his book The Starry Messenger.
15:02
Speaker 2: We're using his prototype for the modern day telescope. He
15:07
Speaker 2: was able to observe celestial bodies and write things down
15:11
Speaker 2: about them before I believe anybody else.
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Speaker 1: Wow, Yeah, that's I mean, that's fantastic. We could do
15:18
Speaker 1: an entire series of shows on the historical significance of Galileo.
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Speaker 1: It's kind of a shame that we have to move on.
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Speaker 2: It really is that we're moving on to some equally
15:28
Speaker 2: fascinating territory.
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Speaker 1: This may well be the most infamous book on our list,
15:40
Speaker 1: or the most well known by you know, the average
15:43
Speaker 1: Jane Joe walking around. For sure. It is on the
15:46
Speaker 1: origin of species by means of natural selection? Can we
15:50
Speaker 1: get a crazy sound qu drop.
15:55
Speaker 3: Charles Darnwiz perfect Yeah, Charles Darwin, Charles Darwin, Charlie de
16:04
Speaker 3: I like to call him yeah to his friends.
16:06
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. He was a fascinating character.
16:10
Speaker 1: So what did his What did his book ultimately argue?
16:14
Speaker 2: No, the crux of its argument was a little thing
16:17
Speaker 2: called evolution is not the most palatable thing to certain
16:27
Speaker 2: folks of certain religious persuasions. In the same way that
16:32
Speaker 2: Galileo's ideas challenged these views, this challenged a lot as
16:37
Speaker 2: well in terms of, you know, if we evolved from
16:40
Speaker 2: other more lower species, then we were not made in
16:44
Speaker 2: God's image.
16:45
Speaker 1: Adam and Eves out the window.
16:47
Speaker 2: A lot of things kind of go out the window
16:50
Speaker 2: when you start to buy into his findings.
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Speaker 1: Right, we see again an analog here or a similar
16:58
Speaker 1: theme as we saw in the books by Galileo, because
17:02
Speaker 1: the heliocentric argument is a bit of a kick or
17:06
Speaker 1: a bruise to the ego of the human species, and
17:10
Speaker 1: in a way, on the origin of species is also
17:13
Speaker 1: a kick to humanity because it's saying you are not
17:16
Speaker 1: this singular thing that was made out of whole cloth.
17:20
Speaker 1: You are the result of a process that was here
17:23
Speaker 1: before you and will function long after you were gone.
17:27
Speaker 2: It's very true, Ben, And just just a quick little
17:29
Speaker 2: summary of Charlie. He was a naturalist, a biologist, a geologist,
17:36
Speaker 2: very very versatile man in his learnedness, and he believed
17:43
Speaker 2: that all species of life evolved or descended from a
17:47
Speaker 2: common ancestor. Right, yeah, what was that common ancestor for?
17:52
Speaker 1: For man?
17:54
Speaker 2: Oh, the primates, the primates, right yeah, all right. And so,
17:57
Speaker 2: like we said before, this was not met with the
18:00
Speaker 2: most open arms from religious leaders, and this is a
18:05
Speaker 2: thing that still goes on today. So let's just talk
18:08
Speaker 2: about how this work was received when it came out
18:11
Speaker 2: and what may have led to the idea of it
18:13
Speaker 2: being a banned book, and then we'll kind of bring
18:15
Speaker 2: it to modern day.
18:17
Speaker 1: Sure, here we go. So first, it's important to know
18:19
Speaker 1: that Darwin himself identified agnostic, meaning that he was not
18:25
Speaker 1: a fervent practitioner of any particular religion, especially Christianity, which
18:31
Speaker 1: would have been very common in his time. Darwin was
18:35
Speaker 1: considered a pretty affable country gentleman, country gentry, and he
18:42
Speaker 1: shocked Victorian society at the time when he suggested that
18:46
Speaker 1: animals and humans came from a common source. Pearls were
18:51
Speaker 1: clutched right, right. This It wasn't universally hated. It was
18:58
Speaker 1: just controversial because there was at the time also a
19:02
Speaker 1: rising class of professional scientists. It was their job to
19:07
Speaker 1: conduct experiments, right, to be a chemist or a physicists
19:11
Speaker 1: or so on, and this concept, this non religious biology,
19:16
Speaker 1: appealed to them and they propagated it. But at the
19:22
Speaker 1: same time, very powerful people are powerfully offended.
19:27
Speaker 2: As powerful people tend to get, their offense has legs,
19:32
Speaker 2: It reaches outward, it can ruin lives, it can topple
19:35
Speaker 2: empires and suppress information.
19:39
Speaker 1: Right, so let's look at the timeline. He publishes the
19:45
Speaker 1: book in eighteen fifty nine and it outlines the theory
19:49
Speaker 1: of evolution. Not long after that the book is banned,
19:55
Speaker 1: particularly in the library of Trinity College, Cambridge, where he
19:59
Speaker 1: had been student. So the banning begins soon after the
20:03
Speaker 1: book is published, and it inspires international debate. The Church
20:10
Speaker 1: of England reacted against the book, but interestingly enough, Anglicans
20:16
Speaker 1: supported Darwin's theory of natural selection and saw it as
20:19
Speaker 1: an instrument of God's design, So they were saying, okay,
20:22
Speaker 1: evolution can happen because God wants it to.
20:26
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, that's interesting. It's very adaptable view. I guess
20:32
Speaker 2: I can appreciate that. But Darwin's research only got more
20:36
Speaker 2: controversial as time went on, and it started to become
20:40
Speaker 2: a concern in public schools.
20:44
Speaker 1: Oh yes, And this is what's nice about this being
20:47
Speaker 1: second in our list here is Galileo may feel like
20:51
Speaker 1: ancient history to some people, right, Charles Darwin may feel
20:57
Speaker 1: a little bit older too, because the book is in,
21:00
Speaker 1: you know, the mid eighteen hundreds. But the controversy didn't
21:06
Speaker 1: like die down in nineteen hundred or something. Oh no,
21:09
Speaker 1: it continued for a long time. And it continued, especially
21:12
Speaker 1: here in the United States.
21:13
Speaker 2: Even though much like global warming is largely accepted by
21:16
Speaker 2: the scientific community, Darwin's teachings.
21:20
Speaker 1: Were as well.
21:22
Speaker 2: And the idea of evolution and natural selection is sort
21:26
Speaker 2: of the law of the land as far as the
21:28
Speaker 2: science crowd goes. So, as one would expect, this sends
21:33
Speaker 2: up in a lot of books, a lot of textbooks
21:35
Speaker 2: that students are getting in high schools in middle schools
21:38
Speaker 2: about biology and the origin of life. And that rubbed
21:44
Speaker 2: certain local governments the wrong way.
21:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, kidding, and the way that they would phrase
21:52
Speaker 1: this opposition was relatively fluid. There would be you know,
21:57
Speaker 1: some of the initial opposition was that this was essentially heresy,
22:03
Speaker 1: which you can't prosecute people for heresy.
22:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't have a Spanish inquisition anymore, right.
22:09
Speaker 1: So that argument was pretty much on the level transparent,
22:13
Speaker 1: This offends our view of the nature of the universe, right,
22:19
Speaker 1: and people rallied behind this cause it became something that
22:24
Speaker 1: would be portrayed in pop culture as well. Yeah, big time.
22:27
Speaker 1: Have you heard of the Scopes monkey trial? Ben? Yes? Yes,
22:31
Speaker 1: what do you know about the Scopes trials? The Scopes
22:34
Speaker 1: trials took place in Tennessee, right, and it was a
22:40
Speaker 1: There are some twists in turngal here to this story,
22:43
Speaker 1: but the quick summary is that this was almost like
22:48
Speaker 1: a public trial for whether or not evolution should be
22:52
Speaker 1: taught in United States public schools. It's right.
22:55
Speaker 2: In fact, they had a law on the books in
22:58
Speaker 2: nineteen twenty five that was called the Butler Act HB
23:02
Speaker 2: one eighty five. It was the bill that was founded
23:05
Speaker 2: on the arrest of John Scopes, who was a teacher
23:10
Speaker 2: in a Tennessee public school, and he took it upon
23:14
Speaker 2: himself to teach evolution, and that did not sit well
23:20
Speaker 2: with the Tennessee government, and.
23:23
Speaker 1: A lot of people rally behind this because this was
23:25
Speaker 1: the first trial to be broadcast on the radio.
23:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, the language of the law was no joke either.
23:32
Speaker 2: It was described as quote, an act prohibiting the teaching
23:35
Speaker 2: of the evolution theory in all the universities, normals, and
23:38
Speaker 2: other public schools of Tennessee. It prohibited the teaching of
23:43
Speaker 2: any theory that denies the story of the divine creation
23:46
Speaker 2: of man as taught in the Bible, and to teach
23:49
Speaker 2: instead that man has descended from a lower order of animals.
23:53
Speaker 2: Punishments included any teacher found guilty of the violation of
23:57
Speaker 2: this Act shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and a
23:59
Speaker 2: punk viction. Shall be fine not less than one hundred
24:02
Speaker 2: dollars nor more than five hundred for each offense.
24:07
Speaker 1: Yikes. Right, And this is in Dayton, Tennessee. And one
24:10
Speaker 1: thing that I find kind of wholesome and lighthearted about
24:14
Speaker 1: the whole event is that there was a carnival sk
24:17
Speaker 1: atmosphere outside of the courthouse. People were selling hot dogs, lemonade,
24:21
Speaker 1: toy monkeys. Of course.
24:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, in fact, there's a pretty amazing little jingle that
24:29
Speaker 2: was written around this very event.
24:31
Speaker 1: Casey, can we have a clip of this please?
24:33
Speaker 5: I'm no kin to the monkey. No no, no, the
24:36
Speaker 5: monkey's hocking to the Yeah yeah, yeah, I don't know
24:40
Speaker 5: much of that his and says just that I didn't
24:43
Speaker 5: swing by my tream seeing so unbelievabove, and yet those
24:49
Speaker 5: saying it's true, they're teaching us about it in now
24:54
Speaker 5: that humans where monkeys wants to whoam no ki.
24:58
Speaker 1: Ah, sweet sweet catchy ignorance. It is catchy. You have
25:03
Speaker 1: to give it that. If you just heard that song
25:05
Speaker 1: and you didn't speak English, you would think, oh, that's
25:08
Speaker 1: that's got a nice role to it.
25:09
Speaker 2: It's got good alliteration. It's like, I'm no kin to
25:12
Speaker 2: the monkey.
25:13
Speaker 1: No no, no, the monkey's no kin to me. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,
25:17
Speaker 1: it's like a calypso almost. Yeah. It's got, it's got.
25:19
Speaker 1: It's got some punch to it. Kind of makes me
25:21
Speaker 1: want to deny evolution. It's working, nol, it's working. You
25:25
Speaker 1: can't listen to the song in full, they'll get you.
25:27
Speaker 1: But they also technically got scopes. Interesting fact. He was
25:32
Speaker 1: found guilty and he was fined one hundred dollars one
25:35
Speaker 1: hundred dollars. I guess he only did it once. In
25:38
Speaker 1: the modern parlance, we would say he took an L.
25:40
Speaker 1: He took that L for all of us. Yeah, he
25:42
Speaker 1: really did.
25:43
Speaker 2: But this, you know this, this was a nineteen twenty
25:45
Speaker 2: three and this stuff was happening as recently as like
25:48
Speaker 2: the nineties. In Georgia, for example, there was a Supreme
25:51
Speaker 2: Court ruling that declared it unconstitutional for the government to
25:56
Speaker 2: require biology textbooks that contain natural selection, versions of evolution,
26:04
Speaker 2: and the origins of life. They would have stickers on
26:07
Speaker 2: them that referred to this stuff as a theory. Evolution
26:11
Speaker 2: is a theory, they would say, not a fact regarding
26:14
Speaker 2: the origin of living things. And then in January of
26:17
Speaker 2: two thousand and five, a federal judge ruled that those
26:19
Speaker 2: stickers were no good because they essentially endorsed a religious viewpoint.
26:25
Speaker 1: And the school board spent a year appealing the ruling
26:29
Speaker 1: until it finally got settled in two thousand and six.
26:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, that's insane. I really like this one. In California,
26:36
Speaker 2: of course, California. In twenty ten, the Supreme Court decided
26:41
Speaker 2: to not hear the Association of Christian Schools international at
26:45
Speaker 2: all versus Roman sterns at all. And this case was
26:49
Speaker 2: an appeal of a ruling that basically said that the
26:55
Speaker 2: state had the right to consider the teachings of certain
26:59
Speaker 2: religon just schools insufficient preparation for college.
27:03
Speaker 1: That's you know, you've got to respect the way that
27:06
Speaker 1: people frame these things, because supporters of the measures like
27:11
Speaker 1: the sticker thing or the idea of teaching intelligent design
27:14
Speaker 1: hand in hand with evolution into public school Supporters of
27:18
Speaker 1: these measures say that they are not repressing of you.
27:22
Speaker 1: They are promoting quote, academic freedom by encouraging students and
27:26
Speaker 1: teachers alike to think critically and pretty much question everything.
27:31
Speaker 1: That's a bunch of jib or jabber. I don't know
27:34
Speaker 1: if it is sincere. Yeah. Yeah, it seems like a
27:37
Speaker 1: line of bull honky. It seems like there's a whole
27:41
Speaker 1: stream of huy. But it does go to show that
27:45
Speaker 1: even even after more than one hundred years, this book
27:49
Speaker 1: remains controversial, and there are people who will tell you
27:52
Speaker 1: that it is purposely meant to mislead you.
27:56
Speaker 2: You know, sure, even though and hey, no ding on
27:59
Speaker 2: Christian here, This is just a matter of to me
28:03
Speaker 2: ignoring clear evidence in favor of stuff that even many
28:09
Speaker 2: Christians will say that the Bible is a book that
28:12
Speaker 2: is meant to teach. It has these kind of like
28:15
Speaker 2: scenarios that are necessarily meant to be read as.
28:18
Speaker 1: Literary actual occurrences.
28:21
Speaker 2: So I always find it interesting when people are so
28:24
Speaker 2: stuck in an opinion that they can't see that there's
28:27
Speaker 2: you know, other information out there.
28:29
Speaker 1: And I'm a fan of the approach that those Anglicans
28:32
Speaker 1: took back in the eighteen fifties eighteen sixties. Things don't
28:36
Speaker 1: have to be mutually exclusive. You know, your personal belief
28:40
Speaker 1: system is just that personal right big time. And so
28:46
Speaker 1: also you have to consider if somebody is an opponent
28:48
Speaker 1: of a scientific thought like this or a theory of
28:51
Speaker 1: some sort, going out of your way to suppress it
28:55
Speaker 1: in this manner makes it so much more powerful and
28:58
Speaker 1: interesting course to everyone else, you know. Yep, agreed. So
29:04
Speaker 1: thanks to you, Charles Darwin, thanks for hopping on the
29:06
Speaker 1: Beagle and changing the course of science for us. All
29:11
Speaker 1: the Regal Beagle yep, the HMS Beagle. Ah Noel, we're
29:20
Speaker 1: drawing to a close at least four our massive list
29:24
Speaker 1: of three.
29:25
Speaker 2: I don't know, I think we've done a good job
29:27
Speaker 2: of expanding it. There have been lists within lists kind
29:30
Speaker 2: of you know, sub lists, and I have.
29:33
Speaker 1: So much other stuff on banning books. I might have
29:35
Speaker 1: to just like run through it real quick at the end.
29:37
Speaker 1: Do it if we have time. But what's what's next? Oh?
29:41
Speaker 2: Man, Well, Casey, I want I want to I want
29:43
Speaker 2: you to to give me your feedback on this.
29:45
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about George Lemetre.
29:51
Speaker 6: That's like George is the master.
29:53
Speaker 1: Oh cool, George le Metro. I think I did it.
29:56
Speaker 2: Okay, I think you did a great job. All right,
29:59
Speaker 2: So George, Now I'm gonna know I gotta really like that.
30:02
Speaker 1: Wait was this all on Mike? Yeah? Okay, Grace, Yeah,
30:04
Speaker 1: I don't know. It doesn't have to be Well, this
30:06
Speaker 1: has been Casey on the case I guess, so it
30:08
Speaker 1: does have to be that.
30:11
Speaker 2: This gentleman Lemetta has the most remarkably unremarkable title of
30:18
Speaker 2: any of the books on the lists so far.
30:20
Speaker 1: Oh I love I love the pants off of it.
30:22
Speaker 1: Would you like to grace us with this title? Ben Sure?
30:26
Speaker 1: Get ready a homogeneous universe of constant mass and growing radius,
30:31
Speaker 1: accounting for the radial velocity of extra galactic nebula by Lametto.
30:38
Speaker 1: I'm telling you you're nailing that pronunciation. I could you
30:41
Speaker 1: hear Casey? There was pride, there was in his voice.
30:44
Speaker 1: I mean that makes me feel really good. So, yeah,
30:47
Speaker 1: this this gentleman. He wrote this article in nineteen twenty seven.
30:50
Speaker 2: It wasn't a book, and this espoused essentially the first
30:59
Speaker 2: version of what is now referred to as the Big
31:03
Speaker 2: Bang theory or yeah that one.
31:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the automnipia version, right.
31:08
Speaker 2: And just to give you a sense of what a
31:10
Speaker 2: giant of astrophysics this guy was, Stephen Hawkings basically credits
31:15
Speaker 2: him as being the founder of it all, the godfather
31:18
Speaker 2: of this idea of the universe exploding outward from a
31:24
Speaker 2: particle known as what is it a super adom?
31:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, or a cosmic egg or primeval egg? Is that
31:30
Speaker 1: the one? Yeah, that's so cool. Unless we sound like
31:33
Speaker 1: we're going to be constantly pitying science against spirituality here
31:39
Speaker 1: we should point out that, in addition to being a
31:42
Speaker 1: titan in the world of astrophysics, le Maltra was a
31:46
Speaker 1: Belgian Catholic priest.
31:48
Speaker 2: He was indeed every picture you can find the m
31:50
Speaker 2: he's got his little uh what do you call that
31:52
Speaker 2: thing little priest collar.
31:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, a Roman collar or a clergy collar. There you go.
31:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he's he is deep in both worlds. My
32:02
Speaker 2: friend is he is a man of science and a
32:06
Speaker 2: man of God, which makes his findings extra interesting to me.
32:11
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and his religious standing didn't stop the Big Bang
32:16
Speaker 1: from being looked at as a controversial idea. Even Albert
32:20
Speaker 1: Einstein at first was like, yeah, are you sure about that?
32:23
Speaker 1: I don't know about that one, buddy, Yeah, I don't know, father,
32:25
Speaker 1: And we can, you know, you can kind of understand,
32:28
Speaker 1: just like just like the case with Galileo or with
32:31
Speaker 1: Darwin Wild. Yeah, we've never heard this before radical, but
32:36
Speaker 1: it's such a challenging question that humanity is still trying
32:39
Speaker 1: to really figure out. You know, what did the universe
32:43
Speaker 1: have a starting point? If so, what was there beforehand?
32:47
Speaker 1: You know? And this is mind blowing stuff that this guy,
32:51
Speaker 1: this guy came up with. And sure we can we
32:54
Speaker 1: can laugh a little bit at the idea of Cosmic Egg.
32:56
Speaker 1: It's kind of like Emerson's transparent eyeball, but it's sounds
33:00
Speaker 1: like a really cool prog rock band, Cosmic Egg. Yeah, oh,
33:04
Speaker 1: we should tell everybody. So we have been collectively Casey
33:10
Speaker 1: Nol and some of our colleagues and I have collectively
33:13
Speaker 1: been really into making up band names or noting when
33:18
Speaker 1: something would be a good band name. So you're probably
33:21
Speaker 1: gonna hear us doing that for a while in the
33:23
Speaker 1: next few episodes. We like to do the band name
33:26
Speaker 1: and then the genre. So Cosmic Egg.
33:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, like I would say, kind of like crowd rock,
33:32
Speaker 2: like sort of like can you know, very repetitive drumming
33:35
Speaker 2: and you know, w kind of bass and yeah, like
33:38
Speaker 2: cal mudy guitars, and yeah, I'm liking that.
33:42
Speaker 1: Cosmic Egg. What else? What else you got? I feel
33:44
Speaker 1: like Cosmic Egg is definitely the superior the three names
33:48
Speaker 1: for band name, I think I think you nailed it.
33:50
Speaker 1: Hole in one.
33:51
Speaker 2: We had one last night. It was denhim Glut. Remember
33:53
Speaker 2: Denim Glutz, Yeah, Denim Glut.
33:55
Speaker 1: Oh was it the Rainbow Denim Glut.
33:57
Speaker 5: No.
33:57
Speaker 2: You were just talking about how like you were saying,
33:59
Speaker 2: there was a den surplus and they were trying to
34:03
Speaker 2: like capitalize on that by selling it at a at
34:05
Speaker 2: a loss or something like that, to be a lost
34:07
Speaker 2: leader or something.
34:08
Speaker 1: Anyway over my head. We had a really in depth
34:10
Speaker 1: discussion off air about Denham.
34:13
Speaker 2: I think we decided that Denham Glutt would be kind
34:17
Speaker 2: of an electro dancy kind of kind of bands.
34:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, it had to be because it would be two
34:22
Speaker 1: on the news for it to be country music.
34:23
Speaker 2: I could see, yeah, definitely, only notes. I could see
34:25
Speaker 2: Denim Glutt opening for Cosmic Egg though. Oh yeah, that
34:28
Speaker 2: seems like.
34:29
Speaker 1: A good bill. Dance the night away. I love it.
34:32
Speaker 1: So we'll let you know when we make those things
34:36
Speaker 1: real bands. But in the meantime we should return to
34:39
Speaker 1: Le Maltra. Le Matra pretty good. You were so much
34:43
Speaker 1: better at that than I am. It's all about the
34:50
Speaker 1: Oh god, sorry, guys, choked a little bit.
34:54
Speaker 2: It's been a long week. It has been a long Yeah.
34:56
Speaker 2: Our Belgian cosmologists and Kathleen Priest and you know, let's
35:03
Speaker 2: talk a little bit about how he arrived.
35:06
Speaker 1: At this idea.
35:07
Speaker 2: Ooh do tell well, let's start from the beginning. He
35:10
Speaker 2: was born in eighteen ninety four in Charleroi, Belgium, and
35:15
Speaker 2: from a very early age he was into both science
35:19
Speaker 2: and religion. He did serve in World War One briefly,
35:23
Speaker 2: and then after that he decided to get into theoretical
35:26
Speaker 2: physics and in short order was ordained so you know,
35:31
Speaker 2: he really knew his path, kind of a split path,
35:34
Speaker 2: but an interesting one, and he really committed to both
35:38
Speaker 2: pretty heartily. By the time he was thirty one, he
35:42
Speaker 2: became a professor at a Catholic university. And this is
35:47
Speaker 2: interesting Ben. During World War Two, he actually was hurt
35:51
Speaker 2: when his home was accidentally bombed by.
35:54
Speaker 1: US horses friendly fire. Huh, yeah, that's rough. And the
35:59
Speaker 1: whole time he is he is studying physics himself as
36:03
Speaker 1: this is going on, as his home is being accidentally bombed.
36:06
Speaker 1: In nineteen twenty seven, he discovers a group of solutions
36:10
Speaker 1: to Einstein's field equations of relativity, and the solutions that
36:15
Speaker 1: he finds do not describe a static universe.
36:18
Speaker 2: That was the prevailing notion, right right, the universe is
36:22
Speaker 2: just here, that's it.
36:26
Speaker 1: But his solutions described an expanding universe. At the same time,
36:31
Speaker 1: a few years earlier, another researcher, Russian named Alexander Friedman,
36:36
Speaker 1: had discovered this too, but they were not in contact
36:39
Speaker 1: with each other. So he brings this. He publishes this
36:44
Speaker 1: report in the same year, nineteen twenty seven, in a
36:48
Speaker 1: little known journal oh called all right, hey, Casey, can you.
36:57
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm going to do my best here would be
37:00
Speaker 6: the anw de la associatissel something like that. My man
37:05
Speaker 6: bulks somewhere in there.
37:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, casey on the case, ladies, gentlemen. In this report
37:12
Speaker 1: he presents this idea of an expanding universe that we
37:15
Speaker 1: would later call Hubble's law, the idea that the outward
37:18
Speaker 1: speed of distant objects in the universe is proportional to
37:21
Speaker 1: their distance from us. This, this is pretty this is
37:26
Speaker 1: pretty crazy stuff, right. It seems Legit seems legit to us. Now, yeah,
37:31
Speaker 1: then I know. So we've got a little bit of
37:34
Speaker 1: a pickle here. How do we get from cosmic egg
37:37
Speaker 1: to the Big Bang theory. There's there's a story there
37:41
Speaker 1: that it's called Big Bang theory after a sarcastic remark
37:45
Speaker 1: from an English astronomer named Fred Hoyle in nineteen forty nine.
37:50
Speaker 1: It's true. I actually found this article on Christian Today.
37:53
Speaker 2: I guess it's written by a British person because I
37:56
Speaker 2: just love this, they say one skeptical scientist, Fred rubbish
38:01
Speaker 2: Lemetra's idea as the Big Bang theory, and even Einstein,
38:05
Speaker 2: like we mentioned earlier, thought it was just.
38:07
Speaker 1: Way too far out.
38:09
Speaker 2: Man, Oh, Albert Einstein man.
38:12
Speaker 1: And that's just too far out. That's how he would
38:14
Speaker 1: have that's how he actually has happened. Yep, we did
38:17
Speaker 1: the research on that. Yes, So now fast forward to
38:22
Speaker 1: the modern day. We are very very fortunate that these
38:27
Speaker 1: ideas and these works survived despite the way they challenged
38:31
Speaker 1: the status quo.
38:32
Speaker 2: What was it like the discovery of background radiation or
38:36
Speaker 2: microwaves or something like that, like confirmed a lot of
38:39
Speaker 2: the basis for his argument.
38:41
Speaker 1: That's correct, Nol. That's true. Actually, a while back, I
38:46
Speaker 1: was able to interview the Nobel Prize winning professor John Mather,
38:52
Speaker 1: who was instrumental in essentially proving the Big Bang and
38:58
Speaker 1: taking it outside of the realm of theory. And we
39:03
Speaker 1: were interviewing him because he was working on the James
39:06
Speaker 1: Webb Space Telescope, which is the successor to the hub.
39:09
Speaker 1: That's right when you guys went to NASA. So cool.
39:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it was actually a pair of scientist Arnout
39:15
Speaker 2: Penzias and Robert Wilson who discovered those cosmic microwave background radiations.
39:20
Speaker 2: I am not even borderlines smart enough to know how
39:22
Speaker 2: that relates or what that means, but Lemantwa did find
39:27
Speaker 2: this out before his death and he shures, crap, knew
39:30
Speaker 2: what it meant.
39:31
Speaker 1: So good on him. Vindication. That's true. Score one for science.
39:37
Speaker 1: And you always have to imagine, you know, if we
39:40
Speaker 1: put ourselves back in these people's shoes. It is so
39:44
Speaker 1: fascinating to think how much progress they made with so
39:49
Speaker 1: much less assistance or knowledge in comparison to what we
39:53
Speaker 1: have today. It's true. Boy. We can only hope that
39:56
Speaker 1: in twenty four hundred AD or something people look back
40:01
Speaker 1: and say, I can't believe they made such a great
40:04
Speaker 1: podcast before the days of telepathic communication.
40:08
Speaker 2: You know, if that's our legacy, then I'm fine with that, man.
40:13
Speaker 2: I'll tell you, Ben, I'm bushed.
40:14
Speaker 1: That was a long one. There's a long one. I
40:17
Speaker 1: sure would hate it.
40:18
Speaker 2: If some sort of pedantic supervillain came along.
40:21
Speaker 1: Don't do it. Oh, I had so much great stuff
40:25
Speaker 1: to close out on the dangers of modern censorship, and
40:28
Speaker 1: now now we're.
40:30
Speaker 7: Here, it's time, gentlemen.
40:35
Speaker 2: I guess it was only a matter of time before
40:37
Speaker 2: it was once again time.
40:39
Speaker 1: That's right, that's right, fatalism. It's your friend, Jonathan Strickland,
40:44
Speaker 1: the quizt You've returned yet again, both to challenge our
40:48
Speaker 1: ability to discern true history from fake history, and to
40:53
Speaker 1: rationalize all the budget money we spent on that gigantic
40:56
Speaker 1: Grandfather clock. It's back, Huh, it's always been. Yeah, I'm sorry.
41:02
Speaker 7: I am nothing if not an excuse for extravagant purchases.
41:07
Speaker 2: You seem like you've kind of taken it down a
41:09
Speaker 2: notch a little bit, chick.
41:10
Speaker 7: I'm gonna be honest. In another day, I'm going to
41:13
Speaker 7: be opening up at a show, and all my energy
41:17
Speaker 7: has been devoted to that. So you're kind of getting
41:19
Speaker 7: the I'm not gonna say a halfway on seven.
41:26
Speaker 2: It's usually you're on like thirteen six point two.
41:30
Speaker 8: It can be a bit much, right, hang on, hang on, Well, gentlemen,
41:34
Speaker 8: now prepare yourself now. As I understand it, the topic
41:38
Speaker 8: for today's discussion was one on bend books.
41:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, can you go back to say, yeah, why did
41:44
Speaker 1: you ask him to do this?
41:45
Speaker 7: I'm going to burn through all my energy right now.
41:48
Speaker 2: You know, Twister, I gotta tell you, you've become quite
41:50
Speaker 2: the divisive figure on our show.
41:52
Speaker 1: We only forward you the nice emails.
41:54
Speaker 7: So there's there's those who really hate it. Well, you
41:56
Speaker 7: know what I've always said, it's the most cringeworthy segment
41:59
Speaker 7: in podcasting. I make no apologies. So I have for
42:02
Speaker 7: you your scenario, and of course you always know that
42:05
Speaker 7: I always have an arbitrary rule that I in state, yes,
42:08
Speaker 7: in order for you to ask questions during the three
42:11
Speaker 7: minutes you have to deliberate, I.
42:13
Speaker 1: Will tell you that arbitrary rule.
42:15
Speaker 7: After I read you the scenario, so you'll get a
42:17
Speaker 7: little extra time to think it over. That little extra
42:20
Speaker 7: time being, you know, the five seconds it takes me
42:22
Speaker 7: to tell you the arbitrary rule. So here is your scenario.
42:26
Speaker 7: And yes it's gotten longer. It's just a so erw
42:31
Speaker 7: it'll soon be its own podcast.
42:32
Speaker 1: Here we are. Yeah.
42:34
Speaker 7: From the mid nineteen seventies through the nineteen nineties, many
42:38
Speaker 7: parts of the world, particularly the United States, were gripped
42:41
Speaker 7: in what we now call the Satanic Panic, in which
42:45
Speaker 7: people became convinced that cults practicing ritualistic abuse were poised
42:50
Speaker 7: to topple our world into chaos. Games like Dungeons and
42:54
Speaker 7: Dragons and music like rock and or roll became targets.
42:59
Speaker 1: One town took this a little bit further.
43:02
Speaker 7: On June twenty sixth, nineteen eighty nine, Hartford, Connecticut School
43:06
Speaker 7: Board officials made a big show of fighting against the
43:09
Speaker 7: forces of darkness by banning several books. Among them was
43:14
Speaker 7: the Necronomicon. There's only one problem. The Necronomicon does not exist.
43:20
Speaker 7: It was a fictional book created by H. P. Lovecraft
43:23
Speaker 7: in his story The Hound in nineteen twenty two. But
43:25
Speaker 7: apparently no one from Rhode Island told the good folks
43:29
Speaker 7: of Hartford, Connecticut about this. It took a few months,
43:32
Speaker 7: but those same officials became the laughing stock of New
43:36
Speaker 7: England once word got out, and no one ever mentioned
43:39
Speaker 7: the ban again. Your arbitrary rule is that before you
43:43
Speaker 7: can ask any question, you must proceed it with ya
43:46
Speaker 7: ya kutulu photoggin begin the clock, all right, yeah, yeah,
43:50
Speaker 7: but look at all right, go ahead? That romance.
43:54
Speaker 2: I just wanted to try it. I just wanted to
43:55
Speaker 2: make sure I get remembered it. I had to say
43:56
Speaker 2: it once.
43:57
Speaker 1: Es. Sorry, I'm wasting pressure. I'm sitting fan of lady.
44:00
Speaker 7: God's perfectly fine.
44:01
Speaker 1: I really would they be that foolish? I mean that's yeah,
44:07
Speaker 1: they probably would. Yeah, photogon, Yes, mister Bildin. Is it
44:12
Speaker 1: possible that most of this story is true, but one
44:15
Speaker 1: part of it has changed? And if so, would that
44:17
Speaker 1: render the entire thing false?
44:19
Speaker 7: If you're asking me, would I make up one detail
44:21
Speaker 7: to make a true story into a false one, I
44:24
Speaker 7: absolutely would do that.
44:26
Speaker 1: Son of a fish, that's my new family. That's pretty Yeah,
44:30
Speaker 1: it's fun. That rolls right off the tone. I'm gonna
44:34
Speaker 1: you know what I'm gonna. I'm gonna double down. I'm
44:37
Speaker 1: gonna say true. Really yeah, that's okay. So here's the thing.
44:42
Speaker 1: I'm still divided because these longer ones tend to be fake.
44:46
Speaker 1: If you look back, you're trying to pick up.
44:49
Speaker 7: You're looking for meta informental.
44:51
Speaker 2: No, I don't think he would. I don't think he
44:53
Speaker 2: would tip his hand in that way.
44:55
Speaker 1: He hates us, That's that's what I'm saying. I think
44:58
Speaker 1: he would try to. He's playing those minds games. So
45:02
Speaker 1: uh shoo, did you okay? I luf. You know I'm
45:11
Speaker 1: not a native of inn Smith or whatever.
45:13
Speaker 7: Right, So you're not so Eldridge right.
45:16
Speaker 1: Right, I'm eldritch Light at least. So you mentioned Rhode Island.
45:20
Speaker 1: I did. How did Rhode Island come into.
45:22
Speaker 7: Lovecraft was from Rhode Island, Born in Rhode Island, died
45:24
Speaker 7: in Rhode Island.
45:25
Speaker 1: Went to New York a couple times and it really
45:27
Speaker 1: screwed with his mind.
45:28
Speaker 7: Did not like it.
45:30
Speaker 1: Okay, uh yeah, you know what I'm gonna go. I'm
45:34
Speaker 1: gonna go with true. What do you think? Oh mhm,
45:38
Speaker 1: surely our time's up? Really we have one minute and
45:41
Speaker 1: one second. Oh cool, I'm just gonna I'm gonna think
45:43
Speaker 1: on that. I'm gonna I'm gonna have a good thing,
45:44
Speaker 1: have a think those having a thing.
45:46
Speaker 7: How are you doing? Ben?
45:47
Speaker 1: You know I've been doing all right? Man. We we
45:51
Speaker 1: had a really great episode today and just between us,
45:54
Speaker 1: it's it's always good to see you, even though it's
45:56
Speaker 1: somewhat adversarial.
45:57
Speaker 7: No, false, al right, So we've got got in the situation.
46:05
Speaker 7: We know how this has always resolved.
46:06
Speaker 1: Rose Shamboo. We're gonna do one two three shoot all right?
46:10
Speaker 1: One two three shoot all right?
46:13
Speaker 7: So we have mister Bullen's got a rock crush. So
46:18
Speaker 7: we're going with true.
46:18
Speaker 1: Then, yes, two ahead, Ben? You food? I have I
46:31
Speaker 1: made it up, the whole thing, the who thing.
46:34
Speaker 7: Well, I didn't make up the satanic panic that.
46:36
Speaker 1: Actually happened, that did occur, I'm aware of that was
46:38
Speaker 1: it in the attic though.
46:39
Speaker 7: June twenty sixth, by the way, happens to be my birthday.
46:43
Speaker 7: That was That was the hint I threw in there,
46:46
Speaker 7: just to tip it off. Also, you could have there
46:49
Speaker 7: were I was prepared for all sorts of questions, because
46:51
Speaker 7: there have been books titled the Necronomicon that were just
46:56
Speaker 7: various hoaxes. There's, of course the infamous Simon Addition that
47:00
Speaker 7: was published in the late nineteen seventies early nineteen eighties,
47:02
Speaker 7: but it only sold about eight hundred thousand copies, so
47:05
Speaker 7: that probably wouldn't have registered enough to be on a bandabable.
47:08
Speaker 1: There's also fan fiction Necronomicon.
47:11
Speaker 7: Sure in the early nineteen eighties, that really wasn't such
47:14
Speaker 7: a big thing.
47:14
Speaker 1: And I shouldn't have said anything about that pattern that
47:19
Speaker 1: I noticed, I know, especially because now he's probably going
47:22
Speaker 1: to switch it up. Yeah, I was gonna say.
47:24
Speaker 7: I also had other books that were supposedly banned in
47:27
Speaker 7: that same group, in case you asked me that question,
47:29
Speaker 7: which included things like Satanic Versus by Salomon Rushdie. That's
47:32
Speaker 7: why I originally had the date set for nineteen eighty five,
47:35
Speaker 7: But when I put that little detail in, I realized
47:38
Speaker 7: that book wasn't published till nineteen eighty eight, so I
47:40
Speaker 7: had to push it back.
47:41
Speaker 2: You, sir, are a diabolical creature so good the Pit
47:47
Speaker 2: of the Abyss.
47:48
Speaker 7: Hartford, Connecticut would ban me in an instant.
47:50
Speaker 1: You're an agent of the dark.
47:54
Speaker 2: Well you know what I had fun too, me too,
47:57
Speaker 2: Yeah too, hete yong saw thought, what'd you think?
48:00
Speaker 1: Get out? That is the elder language that they speak
48:06
Speaker 1: in the mythos. So thank you for coming on again.
48:10
Speaker 1: As always the things we were required to say. Uh,
48:13
Speaker 1: you win the battle, but not the war will be back.
48:16
Speaker 1: We'll get you next time, my pretty, you have.
48:18
Speaker 7: A really long true one for you Next time.
48:21
Speaker 1: Death is but time is but a window. Oh happy dagger?
48:26
Speaker 7: What's that quote from Ghostbusters to my Lesion madam to
48:29
Speaker 7: expostulate what majesty should be?
48:31
Speaker 1: Why dooty is?
48:31
Speaker 7: Why day is day nine nine? And time is time?
48:33
Speaker 7: Work to nothing but to waste night, day and time.
48:35
Speaker 2: That's not in Ghostbusters too, That's a hamlet. I'm sorry
48:38
Speaker 2: speaking of that, I just want to bragged everybody. I'm
48:40
Speaker 2: going to see sleep no more tomorrow.
48:41
Speaker 1: Night, and I am stoke awesome. You know about this?
48:44
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've heard about this.
48:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like a immersive experience where it's like Macbeth
48:50
Speaker 2: happening in different rooms in this crazy like haunted house
48:54
Speaker 2: hotel kind of situation.
48:55
Speaker 7: It was a similar production that started out in New
48:58
Speaker 7: York and got a lot of buzz.
49:00
Speaker 2: Hey, don't get too familiar, quister. We can't just be
49:02
Speaker 2: talking theater with the quizter.
49:04
Speaker 7: I'm shaking my fist and the two of you, and
49:06
Speaker 7: now I'll be away by I.
49:09
Speaker 1: Just want to say that I think he is doing
49:12
Speaker 1: a good job. Oh, he's doing a great job. You
49:14
Speaker 1: are not supposed to be hearing that. Okay, I retract,
49:18
Speaker 1: I retract that statement. I do want to end with
49:22
Speaker 1: what I should have said to him. Death is but
49:24
Speaker 1: a door, Time is but a window. I'll be back
49:28
Speaker 1: Ghostbusters too. Vigo, it's a great film. His name is Vigo. Wife,
49:32
Speaker 1: Do you love Paul? To me? Well, will we be
49:37
Speaker 1: able to come back from our crushing defeat today? Folks,
49:42
Speaker 1: It's only one way to find out, only.
49:44
Speaker 2: One way to find out, and that's tuning in. In
49:46
Speaker 2: the meantime, you can write us at Ridiculous at HowStuffWorks
49:48
Speaker 2: dot com. You can hit us up on the social
49:50
Speaker 2: media's where we are Ridiculous history on Facebook and Instagram,
49:54
Speaker 2: and you know, most importantly, join us next week when
49:57
Speaker 2: we talk about how Richard Nixon may or may not
50:00
Speaker 2: have accidentally smuggled a weed for Louis Armstrong.
50:05
Speaker 1: An illegal weed, the drug marijuana. Yes, that's the one.
50:09
Speaker 1: That's the one.
50:10
Speaker 2: But thanks to our super producer Casey Pegrim, thanks to
50:14
Speaker 2: Alex Williams who composed our theme, curses to Jonathan Strickland
50:18
Speaker 2: the quizt and thanks to Brian Young for writing three
50:22
Speaker 2: time Society refused to accept books on new science for
50:25
Speaker 2: HowStuffWorks dot Com.
50:26
Speaker 1: And of course, as always, thanks so much to you.
50:31
Speaker 1: We hope that you enjoyed this episode. We hope to
50:34
Speaker 1: hear your take on band books as well as the
50:38
Speaker 1: dilemma of progress versus preservation. However you approach that one
50:45
Speaker 1: last question to end on here, I think it's interesting.
50:47
Speaker 1: Are there any books that you feel should be banned?
50:51
Speaker 1: And why fascists? See you next time.
51:08
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
51:12
Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.