Latest / The Living Waters Podcast / Ep. 178 - Mother Mary: The Most Misunderstood Woman in History

Transcript

Ep. 178 - Mother Mary: The Most Misunderstood Woman in History · The Living Waters Podcast

• 1:05
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, you know, what's interesting about the whole aspect of the veneration of Mary is that it's relatively recent throughout Catholic theology.
• 1:14
  Oscar Navarro: As a matter of fact, all of our understanding, all of Catholics' understanding, of Mary is within the last 150 years.
• 1:20
  Oscar Navarro: Within the last 150 years, they develop immaculate conception, which before that, thomas Aquinas denied.
• 1:26
  Oscar Navarro: Within the last 150 years, we started to believe, the Catholics started to believe that her body was taken up to heaven, that she was the Queen of heaven, that she was sinless.
• 1:35
  Oscar Navarro: That's a new theology that they believe, within the last 150 years, the perpetual virginity of Mary.
• 1:41
  Oscar Navarro: All of these things were not a thing until 150 years or so ago.
• 1:47
  Ray Comfort: Does the average Catholic understand all that?
• 1:49
  Oscar Navarro: No, i don't think that.
• 1:50
  Oscar Navarro: I think that most Catholics think that whatever doctrine the Papacy have brought about has always been, and they've just kind of come along and reaffirmed it.
• 2:00
  Oscar Navarro: But actually there's a lot of new Catholic dogmas that are younger than the United States of America.
• 2:07
  Oscar Navarro: I mean, this is stuff that the early Christians simply didn't believe.
• 2:15
  Emeal Zwayne: Little does Mark Spence, the descendant of Joseph Smith, know that I now have among his children one of my converts.
• 2:27
  Emeal Zwayne: I got a wonderful text with a very, very waterlogged child who was in Alaska, who did a cold plunge.
• 2:39
  Ray Comfort: No, in Alaska.
• 2:40
  Ray Comfort: Did you know that?
• 2:42
  Mark Spence: He sent me a picture of or a text saying that.
• 2:45
  Mark Spence: He said that and I said well, did Danny do it?
• 2:46
  Mark Spence: He said no, danny wouldn't do it.
• 2:49
  Emeal Zwayne: No, danny said he was in the van cleaning it.
• 2:51
  Emeal Zwayne: Pence, he didn't do it.
• 2:54
  Emeal Zwayne: He didn't do it.
• 2:55
  Emeal Zwayne: I know I'm kind of jealous.
• 2:57
  Emeal Zwayne: It's one of your kids, it's a convert.
• 2:59
  Ray Comfort: So that's the right way to tischa heart.
• 3:01
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, yeah, Ethan sent me a text from Alaska.
• 3:04
  Emeal Zwayne: Our boys were in Alaska, right, Mark?
• 3:07
  Mark Spence: They rented a van to sleep in.
• 3:08
  Mark Spence: You see how much you do not like someone when you're sleeping in a van for a week.
• 3:14
  Emeal Zwayne: I know.
• 3:14
  Emeal Zwayne: So he wrote to me and it was a picture of him and he said cold plunge, inspired by you.
• 3:19
  Emeal Zwayne: I said, yes, wasn't it seriously amazing and torturous at the same time?
• 3:23
  Emeal Zwayne: He said it was truly magical.
• 3:25
  Emeal Zwayne: I can't stop smiling.
• 3:26
  Emeal Zwayne: I feel so good.
• 3:26
  Emeal Zwayne: We need to get my dad to join this cult.
• 3:30
  Emeal Zwayne: Mark, join our cult, please.
• 3:33
  Ray Comfort: It really feels good when you get out.
• 3:37
  Mark Spence: I will try it in the pool in the summertime.
• 3:40
  Emeal Zwayne: You need to go, in the winter, from the pool to the hot tub, from the hot tub to the pool.
• 3:44
  Emeal Zwayne: You got to do it, mark.
• 3:45
  Oscar Navarro: I was in Colorado recently and we went whitewater rafting.
• 3:48
  Oscar Navarro: The first thing I did was like how cold is the river?
• 3:51
  Oscar Navarro: And they said it's about 42 and I jumped in.
• 3:54
  Emeal Zwayne: You did not.
• 3:55
  Oscar Navarro: Oh, you've been doing cold plunge, I have been yeah, It didn't feel, because normally when we cold plunge it's under 40.
• 4:00
  Oscar Navarro: You've gone under 40.
• 4:01
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, I mean not much.
• 4:04
  Ray Comfort: So what was it?
• 4:04
  Ray Comfort: It was a hot day or cold It was probably around 70, 75.
• 4:08
  Emeal Zwayne: So it would have been a shock.
• 4:09
  Emeal Zwayne: How did it feel, Oscar?
• 4:10
  Oscar Navarro: It felt good.
• 4:11
  Oscar Navarro: Honestly, it felt good because I didn't have to worry about getting cold afterwards.
• 4:15
  Ray Comfort: You know what I mean.
• 4:15
  Oscar Navarro: Because, I already felt all the cold.
• 4:18
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, the only problem is when I asked Ethan how long he went in for, he said 10 seconds.
• 4:22
  Emeal Zwayne: It was just his toe.
• 4:23
  Emeal Zwayne: No, he said I dunked my head, stayed in for like three seconds and ran out and then got back in and swam for like 10 seconds.
• 4:31
  Emeal Zwayne: I was expecting like three.
• 4:34
  Emeal Zwayne: It's supposed to be like dunk your head is a whole nother level I've never done that.
• 4:37
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, that's pretty insane, yeah.
• 4:40
  Emeal Zwayne: So anyway, that's beautiful, wonderful and cute and adorable, but, mark, you played.
• 4:45
  Emeal Zwayne: I can't figure out yet whether or not you played a dirty trick on me or whether Ethan played a dirty trick on you, because you sent me a picture of what you said was my beloved son in a hammock between two people.
• 4:57
  Mark Spence: Yeah, no, i didn't really thought it was your son.
• 4:59
  Mark Spence: So, ethan, just sent you the picture or did he send me the picture and he said, yeah, he's doing it.
• 5:03
  Mark Spence: And I went oh well, he must be referring to Danny, because we've been going back and forth.
• 5:08
  Mark Spence: back and forth.
• 5:08
  Mark Spence: Yeah, And apparently it was not Danny.
• 5:11
  Mark Spence: It was just some random stranger inside the airport who had a hammock there in Juneau, Alaska.
• 5:16
  Mark Spence: We didn't want to sit in the seats.
• 5:17
  Mark Spence: So he put up a hammock between people.
• 5:19
  Oscar Navarro: That's genius, actually It really, is It looked?
• 5:21
  Oscar Navarro: really comfortable.
• 5:22
  Oscar Navarro: I'm honestly thinking about packing a hammock the next time I travel.
• 5:25
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, i see my.
• 5:27
  Emeal Zwayne: So I'm looking at this.
• 5:28
  Emeal Zwayne: I'm like how can this be my son Danny?
• 5:30
  Emeal Zwayne: That's so not a Danny to do.
• 5:30
  Emeal Zwayne: I thought how intelligent.
• 5:32
  Emeal Zwayne: He was Yeah, and then you lost all your respect.
• 5:34
  Emeal Zwayne: I thought it wasn't him, no, but I thought this is not Danny.
• 5:37
  Emeal Zwayne: But I was shocked.
• 5:38
  Emeal Zwayne: I'm like, okay, wow, danny, okay, i wasn't going to kick him out of the house.
• 5:43
  Emeal Zwayne: He said he better get comfortable with that, because he's going to be sleeping in one forever.
• 5:47
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh man Outside, yeah, oh man, yeah, you guys like hammocks, by the way.
• 5:51
  Emeal Zwayne: What is the?
• 5:54
  Mark Spence: fascination with the hammocks.
• 5:56
  Ray Comfort: I don't like them.
• 5:57
  Ray Comfort: Why right They keep moving?
• 5:58
  Ray Comfort: You can't get them to go still, But that's what's wonderful, No it's annoying.
• 6:02
  Emeal Zwayne: It makes you fall asleep when you sway.
• 6:05
  Mark Spence: We have two hammocks in our backyard in between two palm trees, and absolutely love it.
• 6:10
  Ray Comfort: Bring a little pillow and a little blinky headphones, so you're talking about a big, nice, comfortable hammock, one of those little ones you just fall out of all the time.
• 6:17
  Mark Spence: It actually has a mosquito net, so it does.
• 6:18
  Mark Spence: It keeps the mosquitoes going.
• 6:20
  Mark Spence: It's a classy one.
• 6:21
  Emeal Zwayne: Is it one, Mark, that makes you look like a human taco, where you just sink into it and disappear?
• 6:25
  Emeal Zwayne: We have both.
• 6:26
  Emeal Zwayne: I like those ones that are like they have the wood on the top.
• 6:30
  Emeal Zwayne: Okay, yeah, we don't have that.
• 6:31
  Mark Spence: No, those are nice.
• 6:31
  Mark Spence: You know, I slept in a hammock for about a year when I slept with my parents.
• 6:35
  Ray Comfort: That's a long time to be asleep.
• 6:36
  Ray Comfort: I slept outside.
• 6:37
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, that's a coma, mark.
• 6:39
  Mark Spence: You didn't sleep in the hammock, you had a coma, and what would wake me up inside the hammock where the sprinkler is going off at 5 am?
• 6:44
  Mark Spence: No way.
• 6:45
  Emeal Zwayne: Well, you did this by choice or because you smelled your parents' business, because my parents had a really beautiful view with their house.
• 6:50
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, it was a nice house.
• 6:51
  Emeal Zwayne: I remember that.
• 6:52
  Mark Spence: And I would sleep out inside the hammock and the sprinklers would wake me up and I'd be able to watch the sunrise.
• 6:56
  Mark Spence: That's crazy.
• 6:57
  Mark Spence: Was the water cold?
• 6:59
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, it was a cold punch.
• 6:59
  Emeal Zwayne: It was the first cold punch.
• 7:00
  Emeal Zwayne: It was cold sprinkle.
• 7:01
  Emeal Zwayne: You know what blows my mind?
• 7:04
  Ray Comfort: I'm sure you guys have seen them.
• 7:06
  Emeal Zwayne: Those guys that like rock climb and then they'll do a hammock on that like sleep actually in the middle of some crazy huge rock climb.
• 7:14
  Mark Spence: Wow.
• 7:14
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah yeah, yeah, that's insanity.
• 7:17
  Oscar Navarro: They just like tie it to the side of their tail To sleep off the side of a rock.
• 7:21
  Oscar Navarro: Can you imagine rolling over in the middle of the night?
• 7:24
  Emeal Zwayne: Imagine an earthquake.
• 7:25
  Emeal Zwayne: You're hanging out there Having a nightmare.
• 7:27
  Oscar Navarro: Having a night terror and you stand up.
• 7:28
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, you get to me, man.
• 7:30
  Oscar Navarro: Is he sleepwalking The rock?
• 7:31
  Emeal Zwayne: Sleep falling.
• 7:33
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh, that's crazy.
• 7:35
  Emeal Zwayne: Anyway, friends, let's get down to badness.
• 7:38
  Emeal Zwayne: We have a comment.
• 7:39
  Emeal Zwayne: This is from Steve and all Steve and all I don't know, Steve and AI, something like that.
• 7:46
  Emeal Zwayne: Love, love, love, Bella.
• 7:48
  Emeal Zwayne: I have been listening to this podcast for a while now and really fell in love with you all in the episode of women submitting to their husbands.
• 7:56
  Emeal Zwayne: I never thought I would enjoy listening to four men discuss a woman being submissive, but it was done beautifully.
• 8:02
  Emeal Zwayne: These last three episodes of Jonah, the crucifixion and Peter have been the most amazing sermons I've ever heard.
• 8:08
  Emeal Zwayne: It has really given me a new understanding of God's amazing grace and has made me stand in awe of God like never before.
• 8:15
  Emeal Zwayne: I could listen to all of these episodes over and over.
• 8:17
  Emeal Zwayne: Thank you for all you all do, man.
• 8:21
  Ray Comfort: Is he got the right podcast.
• 8:21
  Ray Comfort: That's what I'm thinking.
• 8:24
  Emeal Zwayne: Thank you so much.
• 8:25
  Emeal Zwayne: love, love, love, That's so incredible.
• 8:28
  Oscar Navarro: Love, love, love.
• 8:28
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, we love, love, love this comment And, honestly, i'm regularly.
• 8:33
  Emeal Zwayne: You guys see it crack once in a while.
• 8:35
  Emeal Zwayne: I'm regularly holding back the tears when I read these because they're encouraging.
• 8:39
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, because I know how useless you guys are.
• 8:42
  Emeal Zwayne: And what's so fun, god, that's as this.
• 8:46
  Emeal Zwayne: I feel good for you.
• 8:47
  Emeal Zwayne: All right, friends, this podcast is brought to you by How to Make Sure God.
• 8:53
  Emeal Zwayne: Here's Your Prayers.
• 8:54
  Emeal Zwayne: Ray, are you always in prayer?
• 8:57
  Emeal Zwayne: Yes, Ray is right in the middle of this R-A-Y-E-R, are we doing like vocal emphasis Yes, p-r-a-y-e-r.
• 9:08
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, that gets the message across.
• 9:10
  Ray Comfort: I'm always in prayer.
• 9:10
  Ray Comfort: You take Ray out of prayer and all you've got is poo.
• 9:14
  Emeal Zwayne: Ray, tell me anything that's in this book, Quick.
• 9:17
  Emeal Zwayne: what's in this book, Ray?
• 9:20
  Ray Comfort: Well, it really doesn't matter if God hears your prayers or not, until you're hanging over a thousand foot cliff by your teeth or you're upside down at 20,000 feet in severe turbulence.
• 9:27
  Ray Comfort: That's when you need an off-God-hear-your-prey-us, so it's vital.
• 9:31
  Emeal Zwayne: Wow, yeah, amen, yeah, make sure to check it out, friends, along with the evidence.
• 9:35
  Emeal Zwayne: study Bible.
• 9:37
  Oscar Navarro: And where can they find these two items Along with wait?
• 9:40
  Emeal Zwayne: there's one more thing.
• 9:41
  Oscar Navarro: Oh, there's more.
• 9:42
  Emeal Zwayne: The Living Waters Mug, mug, mug, caps.
• 9:47
  Emeal Zwayne: Friends, let me just say this We've been really encouraged by how quickly these flew.
• 9:52
  Ray Comfort: They were ordered fast People throwing them at each other.
• 9:56
  Emeal Zwayne: That's probably what's happening, but there was someone, i think, that ordered six or something of them.
• 9:59
  Emeal Zwayne: So that's the idea, friends, he was very thirsty.
• 10:03
  Oscar Navarro: Here's what we're going to do, though We're going to have a little phone with these mugs.
• 10:05
  Oscar Navarro: We've decided So we did, we sold out and we ordered another batch, which means there's going to be 300 total grand total, including the ones that we already sold out of plus the new ones.
• 10:15
  Oscar Navarro: So two, 150 orders I think that's how that number works, something like that.
• 10:20
  Oscar Navarro: After those get sold out.
• 10:22
  Oscar Navarro: That's it.
• 10:23
  Oscar Navarro: You will not get this mug again.
• 10:24
  Oscar Navarro: We're going to try to make them kind of fun, like seasonal.
• 10:27
  Oscar Navarro: So after that we'll redesign it new look, new mug and then we'll put those up somehow in some way, and so it'll be fun for those who want to collect them and trade them with your friends.
• 10:38
  Oscar Navarro: I don't know if you want to trade her a mug.
• 10:40
  Ray Comfort: We'll also have specials for them by 200 to get 5% discount.
• 10:43
  Ray Comfort: Yes, yes, definitely.
• 10:44
  Oscar Navarro: But it'll be fun.
• 10:45
  Oscar Navarro: It'll be a fun way where, if you meet another listener who's got a mug, you'll have a different one than them, depending on when you start listening.
• 10:54
  Emeal Zwayne: So you can even try to mug someone with the mug.
• 10:57
  Mark Spence: Have you ever seen the left-handed mug designed for people that are left-handed, like this one right here?
• 11:03
  Mark Spence: No, okay, yeah, i guess you can use that.
• 11:04
  Mark Spence: You can use that by whole, if you hold it with your right hand and it'll dribble out and get you all wet.
• 11:12
  Ray Comfort: Oh, that's cool.
• 11:13
  Mark Spence: So it'll force you to use your left hand or just, i guess, turn the mug all the way around, so you don't get all wet.
• 11:17
  Ray Comfort: Can you speak in truth?
• 11:19
  Mark Spence: No, i'm serious, it's on the side of a store that said lefties have rights to.
• 11:22
  Mark Spence: I think it was the name of the store.
• 11:24
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, oh, that's good Preach, yeah.
• 11:26
  Emeal Zwayne: So anyway, friends, make sure to check them out, yeah, and look, and if you go on the website and we're out, you can back order them, so you can do that.
• 11:34
  Emeal Zwayne: So, all right, friends.
• 11:35
  Emeal Zwayne: So today we're talking about Mother Mary, the most misunderstood woman in history.
• 11:43
  Emeal Zwayne: I cannot for the life of me.
• 11:45
  Emeal Zwayne: I'm trying because I wanted to sing, because I love to sing, because I have a great voice.
• 11:48
  Emeal Zwayne: Mother Mary comes to me.
• 11:51
  Ray Comfort: No, that's awful, That is awful Wow.
• 11:54
  Mark Spence: Don't worry, we will not get a copyright strike with that.
• 11:56
  Ray Comfort: That's right, i won't get a copyright claim.
• 11:59
  Ray Comfort: There'll be no one.
• 12:00
  Ray Comfort: They'll be recognized.
• 12:01
  Ray Comfort: I'll see if that's not recognized.
• 12:02
  Ray Comfort: I can't.
• 12:02
  Ray Comfort: I see it.
• 12:03
  Ray Comfort: Did I watch them?
• 12:03
  Ray Comfort: I think they let it be.
• 12:06
  Ray Comfort: Let it be.
• 12:07
  Emeal Zwayne: That's where it is.
• 12:07
  Emeal Zwayne: Let it be.
• 12:08
  Emeal Zwayne: Let it be Mother Mary.
• 12:11
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh, am I close?
• 12:15
  Ray Comfort: I think you know you're the wrong key or something.
• 12:17
  Ray Comfort: If you sum that down the beach the tide wouldn't come in, It was just awful.
• 12:20
  Ray Comfort: So yeah, and it's not even about Mother Mary.
• 12:23
  Ray Comfort: His mother's name was Mary and she died, And so that's not about.
• 12:27
  Emeal Zwayne: Spoiler alert.
• 12:28
  Emeal Zwayne: But don't you think most people, Ray, think that's about Mary?
• 12:33
  Ray Comfort: Well, easy, try it again.
• 12:35
  Oscar Navarro: No, no, he doesn't have to.
• 12:36
  Emeal Zwayne: Let it be.
• 12:36
  Oscar Navarro: No let it be, it's already off.
• 12:38
  Oscar Navarro: Wait, no, i'm a good singer.
• 12:40
  Mark Spence: You are American.
• 12:41
  Emeal Zwayne: Idol.
• 12:42
  Emeal Zwayne: I know that song.
• 12:43
  Emeal Zwayne: Let it be No still off, oh Mother Mary No way off.
• 12:50
  Oscar Navarro: That's getting worse, Ray what are you doing?
• 12:52
  Emeal Zwayne: He's trying to get it.
• 12:53
  Oscar Navarro: Oh, anyways, okay, can we legally?
• 12:53
  Emeal Zwayne: play it.
• 12:53
  Emeal Zwayne: I'm going to give it a try See if you watch the door.
• 12:55
  Emeal Zwayne: Well, this is definitely See if any police come in and they'll see you.
• 12:59
  Emeal Zwayne: I'm going to give it a try See if you watch the door and see if any police, come in as we.
• 13:05
  Oscar Navarro: This is definitely a parody of the song I've tried myself.
• 13:08
  Oscar Navarro: In times of trouble, mother Mary comes to me.
• 13:14
  Mark Spence: Speaking words of wisdom.
• 13:18
  Ray Comfort: Let it be.
• 13:19
  Ray Comfort: Oh boy, now that's fair use, because we're going to talk about it, yeah, yeah.
• 13:22
  Oscar Navarro: I don't like that guy And it's a parody.
• 13:24
  Emeal Zwayne: Yes, it's a parody of law Man, my bevel on beat This is getting high there.
• 13:29
  Emeal Zwayne: You guys remember that guy.
• 13:30
  Emeal Zwayne: What's his name?
• 13:31
  Emeal Zwayne: Neville, something Long bottom.
• 13:33
  Emeal Zwayne: What was that?
• 13:35
  Emeal Zwayne: Neville shoot.
• 13:36
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, remember Neville.
• 13:37
  Emeal Zwayne: He sang this, that one song, with a really high voice, anyway what are you talking about?
• 13:42
  Ray Comfort: The Bee Gees?
• 13:43
  Emeal Zwayne: Now the Bee Gees are a wonder.
• 13:44
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, Seriously those voices, you don't have to.
• 13:47
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh wait.
• 13:48
  Oscar Navarro: Why do you do that?
• 13:49
  Oscar Navarro: Wait, wait, wait, wait.
• 13:50
  Emeal Zwayne: This is a famous song Oh my brain.
• 13:53
  Emeal Zwayne: It's from that movie, my brain, brain.
• 13:59
  Ray Comfort: She loves you.
• 14:01
  Emeal Zwayne: She loves you Yeah.
• 14:03
  Mark Spence: Like staying alive.
• 14:04
  Emeal Zwayne: Stay alive Stay alive.
• 14:05
  Emeal Zwayne: Those guys are crazy, yeah.
• 14:11
  Emeal Zwayne: So, anyway, we're talking today about Mary, are we?
• 14:13
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, we are.
• 14:14
  Emeal Zwayne: And right, mary is so radically misunderstood.
• 14:20
  Emeal Zwayne: We love Catholic people very, very much.
• 14:22
  Emeal Zwayne: In fact, we did a video on Catholicism recently.
• 14:26
  Ray Comfort: That statement means nothing.
• 14:27
  Ray Comfort: We used it in the video and I thought Catholics are going to be so excited to see so many coming to faith in the video.
• 14:35
  Ray Comfort: And they weren't.
• 14:35
  Ray Comfort: They were just mad.
• 14:36
  Ray Comfort: They just said we're your Catholic haters.
• 14:38
  Ray Comfort: And we don't hate Catholics, We love them.
• 14:40
  Ray Comfort: That's why we speak to them.
• 14:41
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, absolutely Yeah, we love Catholic people very, very much.
• 14:45
  Emeal Zwayne: And it's interesting because, honestly, when I see a video made by Catholics or things that are distributed by Catholics, that are apologetics material, it doesn't mean anything, it doesn't make me angry, it doesn't make me frustrated to agitate it.
• 15:01
  Emeal Zwayne: I say, oh, they must really care, they sincerely believe this and they must really care.
• 15:05
  Emeal Zwayne: They're in error, they're misled in what they're saying, but they must care.
• 15:08
  Emeal Zwayne: I don't get hostile and angry, and that happened well, with our video, as much as we try to express love.
• 15:14
  Emeal Zwayne: I used to be Catholic.
• 15:15
  Emeal Zwayne: Mark was a Catholic, scotty was Catholic.
• 15:17
  Emeal Zwayne: Scotty was Catholic.
• 15:18
  Emeal Zwayne: The Pope was Catholic.
• 15:19
  Emeal Zwayne: Ray's aunt was Catholic.
• 15:23
  Emeal Zwayne: Yes, she did.
• 15:23
  Emeal Zwayne: She did.
• 15:23
  Emeal Zwayne: Who hung out with a one-legged priest We've talked about that before on a motorbike, did?
• 15:27
  Ray Comfort: they go skydiving.
• 15:28
  Ray Comfort: Did we talk about it before?
• 15:30
  Emeal Zwayne: Yes, we did.
• 15:31
  Emeal Zwayne: We did Mike Catholic, can we?
• 15:32
  Ray Comfort: skydiving too.
• 15:32
  Ray Comfort: Yes, she went skydiving with a one-legged Catholic priest on a motorbike.
• 15:37
  Emeal Zwayne: On a motorbike?
• 15:37
  Emeal Zwayne: No, that didn't die on a motorbike.
• 15:39
  Oscar Navarro: Eddie, roman Catholic, that's right, i do calf raises.
• 15:43
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh, that's like that.
• 15:44
  Emeal Zwayne: You're the one who would be most likely your Mexican.
• 15:46
  Emeal Zwayne: That's racist.
• 15:47
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, no religious.
• 15:49
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, I didn't grow up in a religious home, but I do have quite a bit of family members who are Catholic, and I grew up in a heavily populated Hispanic community.
• 15:59
  Oscar Navarro: One of the things I wanted to mention is, even if you're not a devout Catholic but you come from a Catholic family, there's just this great reverence for Mary.
• 16:07
  Oscar Navarro: I was explaining to Eddie earlier that when I grew up, we knew that gangsters I don't know if you guys know this or not, but gangsters get Mary tattooed onto their backs.
• 16:17
  Oscar Navarro: The reason why you'll see so many gangsters with tattoos of Mary on their backs and then they don't wear shirts is because it's considered like another gang member won't stab you or shoot you in the back because they won't shoot through your Mary tattoo.
• 16:28
  Emeal Zwayne: Wait, are you serious?
• 16:29
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, that's like a real thing.
• 16:30
  Ray Comfort: Well, I've got an idea.
• 16:31
  Ray Comfort: Why don't they get it on the front as well?
• 16:33
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, so you see someone come and you just turn around.
• 16:37
  Emeal Zwayne: No way, oscar, i've never heard such a thing.
• 16:40
  Ray Comfort: So where can you get these tattoos?
• 16:43
  Emeal Zwayne: Well, I would do Mary tattoos all over my neck.
• 16:46
  Ray Comfort: I wouldn't be kind of cheaper and easier just to get a Mary T-shirt?
• 16:50
  Oscar Navarro: Sure, i should have thought of that.
• 16:53
  Emeal Zwayne: Right, yeah.
• 16:54
  Emeal Zwayne: So this is a big deal, though, because idolatry is no joke.
• 16:58
  Emeal Zwayne: We talked about it on the last podcast.
• 17:00
  Emeal Zwayne: It's extremely serious, and Mary is radically misunderstood, because a lot of dear Catholics believe that Mary would have wanted the attention that she's given, and that could not be further from the truth, because Mary understood the gospel.
• 17:20
  Emeal Zwayne: Mary understood her need for Jesus.
• 17:22
  Emeal Zwayne: In fact, in her Magnificat, she cried out to him as she cried out to God as her Savior.
• 17:28
  Mark Spence: My God, my Savior, luke 1.
• 17:29
  Mark Spence: , 47.
• 17:30
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, and so that's really important.
• 17:32
  Emeal Zwayne: But, guys, let's just jump into it now, and, though, talk about the flip side of that.
• 17:38
  Emeal Zwayne: The pendulum always swings, and I think that sometimes, among evangelicals, there's almost an irreverence when talking about Mary and the saints of old.
• 17:50
  Emeal Zwayne: We are saints of today, all believers in Christ are referred to as saints in scripture, but I'm sure you all understand what I'm talking about when I say that the saints, those that are the notables among us, they are to be respected, as all people are to be respected.
• 18:06
  Emeal Zwayne: But don't you think, though, oscar, that the pendulum does swing, and then we do become irreverent where it's almost like oh, you are Mary, this and that, and we almost become disrespectful?
• 18:16
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, absolutely One.
• 18:17
  Oscar Navarro: It doesn't help in finding common ground as you talk to people who may have a misunderstanding of who Mary is.
• 18:23
  Oscar Navarro: But also I think it's important to recognize kind of getting to your point, izzy that there's value in us as Christians looking back through history and honoring those that came before us.
• 18:33
  Oscar Navarro: Because, in no different way, if you found out that your great grandfather served as some amazing veteran in the war, you would identify with the ancestors of old and you would have great honor and respect for them and what they've accomplished, and that might even inform the way you live your life today.
• 18:51
  Oscar Navarro: Well, listen, when you are a born again Christian, you are inheritors of God's kingdom.
• 18:55
  Oscar Navarro: We are all sons and daughters of a living God who rules and reigns over all creation, and what that means is that we all enter into a brotherhood, a sisterhood, a family of believers that have existed for 2,000 years, which means you have faith ancestors.
• 19:14
  Oscar Navarro: Let's call them Not ancestral worship faith ancestors, but ancestors that we can look back on and have great respect and honor for the things that they accomplished, for the ways that they believed, and we can identify with the amazing things that they did, and whether that's Mary or Augustine or anybody else.
• 19:36
  Oscar Navarro: I think there's value in identifying the believers that came before us and paved a way for our faith.
• 19:42
  Mark Spence: Do you have any believers, oscar in the lineage, the history great grandfathers, or are you the first one that you know of that became a Christian?
• 19:51
  Mark Spence: I believe I'm the first one.
• 19:52
  Mark Spence: Yeah, seriously.
• 19:54
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, i'm pretty sure I mean my grandma.
• 19:56
  Oscar Navarro: Well, my grandma was a believer.
• 19:58
  Oscar Navarro: She got saved, i guess.
• 19:59
  Oscar Navarro: No, i'm not.
• 19:59
  Oscar Navarro: My grandma got saved actually.
• 20:01
  Oscar Navarro: So she was the first one, i was the second one.
• 20:04
  Oscar Navarro: Oh, got it.
• 20:04
  Oscar Navarro: Somebody shared the gospel with her in her late 30s.
• 20:08
  Oscar Navarro: So she didn't raise my mom or anybody else as Christian.
• 20:11
  Oscar Navarro: She kind of held it to herself.
• 20:12
  Oscar Navarro: But she would quietly pray for all of us.
• 20:14
  Oscar Navarro: But yeah, other than her, i'm the first one.
• 20:17
  Oscar Navarro: So our kids are the first kids to grow up in a Christian home where they're prayed over, prayed for and invited to participate in prayer.
• 20:26
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, i do often wonder that you know what is in our lineage that we're not aware of?
• 20:30
  Emeal Zwayne: You know what relatives did we have that prayed for their future descendants, and where are the byproducts of God using those prayers?
• 20:39
  Mark Spence: Didn't you come from Judas?
• 20:43
  Ray Comfort: I actually was thinking of Hitler.
• 20:44
  Ray Comfort: I thought, no, i can't say that.
• 20:44
  Ray Comfort: Can't you tell by the shifty eyes.
• 20:48
  Emeal Zwayne: Actually, we did a video where we got into Judas.
• 20:50
  Emeal Zwayne: I think I commented on that.
• 20:51
  Emeal Zwayne: But yeah, you know, I do wonder about that.
• 20:56
  Emeal Zwayne: But there is also that danger in that we can pass on misinformation to others.
• 21:01
  Emeal Zwayne: I think there are a lot of dear Catholics that don't even give it a second thought.
• 21:07
  Emeal Zwayne: There's a lot of elk.
• 21:08
  Oscar Navarro: Catholics.
• 21:10
  Emeal Zwayne: They don't give it a second thought.
• 21:12
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh man, we need help here.
• 21:13
  Emeal Zwayne: They don't even give it a second thought.
• 21:15
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean, i remember when I was a kid I was invited by a friend to go to an evangelical church with them.
• 21:21
  Emeal Zwayne: Someone made like some comment and immediately the light switched on for me And it was like God wouldn't want us praying to anyone else but him.
• 21:31
  Emeal Zwayne: God wouldn't want us worshiping anyone else but him.
• 21:34
  Emeal Zwayne: At the time I didn't even conceive that you don't worship Mary.
• 21:39
  Emeal Zwayne: In fact, i remember one time in Lebanon I was visiting family down in Lebanon and I was trying to make the point to them that the Catholic church doesn't actually teach that you should worship Mary.
• 21:49
  Emeal Zwayne: And so you know.
• 21:52
  Emeal Zwayne: but that's what they do, even though it's not their official teaching, but by their actions they're worshiping.
• 21:57
  Mark Spence: So what do you say when somebody says, no, we're not praying to Mary, we're not worshiping Mary?
• 22:02
  Emeal Zwayne: Your response is Yeah, And that's where I get into an analogy I've shared before I can't remember if I shared on the podcast, but I did in that video we just released And it's an issue of semantics because it's like being told by your doctor make sure not to eat any solids.
• 22:15
  Emeal Zwayne: You have surgery tomorrow.
• 22:16
  Emeal Zwayne: So you go home, you take a bunch of meat, chicken, vegetables, throw them in a blender, blend it up, and then you drink all that stuff.
• 22:23
  Emeal Zwayne: Then you go back to the doctor It doesn't ultrasound before the surgery to make sure everything is clear And he's like wait, wait a minute.
• 22:27
  Emeal Zwayne: I told you not to eat anything.
• 22:29
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh no, no, doctor, I didn't eat, I drank, All right.
• 22:34
  Emeal Zwayne: And so what do you call?
• 22:35
  Mark Spence: it.
• 22:35
  Mark Spence: Did you come up with that?
• 22:36
  Emeal Zwayne: It's too brilliant for you to come up with.
• 22:37
  Emeal Zwayne: I did humbly, weakly, gently and beautifully, so God's kind of disciplined me for that.
• 22:44
  Emeal Zwayne: Now, no, but you know what I mean?
• 22:46
  Emeal Zwayne: It's like it's semantics.
• 22:48
  Emeal Zwayne: What do you call it?
• 22:49
  Emeal Zwayne: when you're lighting candles to something, you're making images of it, you're lighting incense, you're bowing down, You're kissing it, you're putting wreaths on it, holding it up, i mean, that's worship.
• 23:01
  Emeal Zwayne: And if that's not idolatry, what is?
• 23:05
  Emeal Zwayne: And so?
• 23:06
  Emeal Zwayne: and then you're also attributing to someone things that only belong to God, because if I'm praying to Mary here and someone's praying to Mary in Honduras and someone in Russia and someone in China, she's hearing all of those prayers at the same time, meaning she's everywhere at one time and taking notice of all those things.
• 23:23
  Emeal Zwayne: And and again they'll say no, we ask them to pray for us, right?
• 23:27
  Emeal Zwayne: No, it's.
• 23:29
  Emeal Zwayne: You're crying out, you're, it's just madness.
• 23:32
  Emeal Zwayne: You're attributing omniscience, almost omnipotence, omnipresence to them, and that's dangerous.
• 23:39
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, you know, what's interesting about the whole aspect of the veneration of Mary is that it's it's relatively recent throughout Catholic theology.
• 23:49
  Oscar Navarro: As a matter of fact, all of our understanding, all of Catholic's understanding of Mary is within the last 150 years.
• 23:55
  Oscar Navarro: Within the last 150 years, they develop immaculate conception, which before that, thomas Aquinas denied.
• 24:01
  Oscar Navarro: Within the last 150 years, we started to believe, we, the Catholics, started to believe that her body was taken up to heaven, that she was the queen of heaven, that she was sinless.
• 24:10
  Oscar Navarro: That's, that's a new theology that they believe within the last 150 years.
• 24:14
  Oscar Navarro: The perpetual virginity of Mary.
• 24:16
  Oscar Navarro: All of these things were not a thing until 150 years or so ago.
• 24:22
  Ray Comfort: Does the average Catholic understand all that?
• 24:24
  Oscar Navarro: No, i don't think that.
• 24:25
  Oscar Navarro: I think that most Catholics think that whatever doctrine the papacy have brought about has always been, and they've just kind of come along and reaffirmed it.
• 24:35
  Oscar Navarro: But actually there's a lot of new Catholic dogmas that are younger than the United States of America.
• 24:42
  Oscar Navarro: I mean, this is stuff that the early Christians simply didn't believe And you know.
• 24:47
  Oscar Navarro: again, to try to find common ground, i know that many people misunderstand who Jesus was.
• 24:55
  Oscar Navarro: I think if you talk to many Catholics they think well, yeah, he was both God and man, but maybe he couldn't really relate to us as human because he was God right.
• 25:05
  Oscar Navarro: And so then they see Mary and the other saints as sort of entry level into relating to God.
• 25:12
  Oscar Navarro: Can you pray on our behalf?
• 25:13
  Oscar Navarro: And I think the misunderstanding of the incarnation of Jesus leads to a lot of these false dogmas and belief systems to truly know that Jesus was fully God and fully man.
• 25:28
  Oscar Navarro: Because, again, pendulum swinging some people view him as fully God and kind of fully man, like, yeah, he was fully God and of course he was kind of man.
• 25:38
  Oscar Navarro: Other people view him as fully man and not at all like God.
• 25:41
  Oscar Navarro: but to be 100% fully God and 100% fully man is the only way we get a substitutionary atonement, we get an intercessor on our behalf and ultimately that we get our salvation is through Jesus and who he was Right.
• 26:00
  Oscar Navarro: No.
• 26:01
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, and Ray, scripture speaks highly of Mary.
• 26:05
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean in Luke 1, 26 to 38.
• 26:08
  Emeal Zwayne: in that context, i mean when Gabriel appeared to her, he said to her rejoice, highly favored one.
• 26:14
  Emeal Zwayne: And he said to her blessed are you among women.
• 26:16
  Emeal Zwayne: She found favor with God.
• 26:18
  Emeal Zwayne: He went on to say to her So that's all true.
• 26:21
  Emeal Zwayne: I think Catholics get this perception.
• 26:23
  Emeal Zwayne: They'll say you don't believe in Mary.
• 26:24
  Emeal Zwayne: And that's actually an actual quote.
• 26:26
  Emeal Zwayne: I've heard many times You know what do you mean?
• 26:28
  Emeal Zwayne: I don't believe in Mary.
• 26:29
  Emeal Zwayne: And that's when I have to emphasize that I believe Mary was a favored, highly blessed woman chosen by God.
• 26:35
  Emeal Zwayne: She was a virgin.
• 26:36
  Emeal Zwayne: I think they, maybe some Catholics even have a misconception.
• 26:39
  Emeal Zwayne: We don't think that Christ was a virgin birth.
• 26:41
  Emeal Zwayne: You know, there's all these misconceptions.
• 26:44
  Emeal Zwayne: But, ray, it's important for us to relate on that level and speak highly of Mary but clarify that we don't worship her.
• 26:50
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, we don't believe in.
• 26:51
  Ray Comfort: We believe in Mary, but we don't trust in Mary, And there's a huge difference.
• 26:56
  Ray Comfort: You know, when I meet a Catholic, I deliberately go deaf.
• 26:58
  Ray Comfort: Someone says I'm a Catholic, I don't want to go into papal infallibility, transubstantiation, myriology, It's all rabbit trails.
• 27:06
  Ray Comfort: This person needs to hear the unadulterated biblical gospel because that will be the power of God to salvation.
• 27:12
  Ray Comfort: And also, what do you say to a Catholic that says you're not speaking true?
• 27:16
  Ray Comfort: I encourage them to read the New Testament because you find most people who have come out of Catholicism have realized it from reading the Scriptures.
• 27:25
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah.
• 27:25
  Ray Comfort: There's so many Scriptures that just clash with Catholicism, So you've got a choice to make.
• 27:30
  Ray Comfort: is this God's Word or isn't it?
• 27:31
  Ray Comfort: If it's God's Word, I've got to take heed to it.
• 27:33
  Oscar Navarro: Ray, you make a really good point because the last several conversations that I've had with Catholics, we go right to the gospel.
• 27:40
  Oscar Navarro: What is the gospel And they do not?
• 27:43
  Oscar Navarro: it's works-based righteousness, Right, And so to your point.
• 27:46
  Oscar Navarro: All of those rabbit shells can distract you from the reality that they don't understand salvation.
• 27:53
  Emeal Zwayne: Mark, you're going to chime in on that.
• 27:54
  Mark Spence: Well, i was simply going to say that word highly favored comes from one Greek word, which simply means much grace, right?
• 28:02
  Mark Spence: So favored in what way?
• 28:04
  Mark Spence: Like, did she do something?
• 28:05
  Mark Spence: You know, god has always chosen people that were picked last in the game, if you would.
• 28:12
  Mark Spence: There's not many whys that are picked.
• 28:14
  Mark Spence: There's not many people that are noble that are picked.
• 28:16
  Mark Spence: I mean just look at the four of us Where we have no idea what we're doing.
• 28:20
  Mark Spence: You know, in that word grace, it's unmerited favor.
• 28:23
  Mark Spence: We cannot forget about this right.
• 28:24
  Mark Spence: Mary did not do anything.
• 28:26
  Mark Spence: Where God says, well, I have to use her, Look at her, You know.
• 28:30
  Mark Spence: I mean, she's absolutely immaculate.
• 28:33
  Mark Spence: No, it has nothing to do with us, It had nothing to do with Mary.
• 28:36
  Mark Spence: It has everything to do with God.
• 28:39
  Mark Spence: God's unmerited favor to the infinitely ill-deserving Mary is just like us And we talked about it at the beginning.
• 28:45
  Mark Spence: We opened it up.
• 28:45
  Mark Spence: Mary calls Jesus her God and her Savior in Luke 1.47.
• 28:51
  Mark Spence: She needed to be saved.
• 28:54
  Mark Spence: Why?
• 28:54
  Mark Spence: Because she sinned.
• 28:56
  Mark Spence: That's how it works, Yeah.
• 28:58
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, and I think, you know there's this almost sort of inability to understand that God chooses imperfect vessels for his purposes.
• 29:12
  Emeal Zwayne: You know, i mean again they'll say, well, no, there's no way Jesus could have been born through a vessel that was sinful.
• 29:16
  Emeal Zwayne: Mary would have been born through vessels that are sinful, even if she was sinless.
• 29:21
  Emeal Zwayne: Like, how do you logically tease that out?
• 29:24
  Emeal Zwayne: You know, but, yeah, mark, to your point.
• 29:26
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean, when you look back and you see all the different people that God used through history I mean Moses, abraham, david, peter I mean again, our Catholic friends would say Peter was, you know, the first pope chosen.
• 29:40
  Emeal Zwayne: Jesus built his church upon him.
• 29:42
  Emeal Zwayne: And we see Peter constantly blowing it.
• 29:45
  Emeal Zwayne: We see Peter being hypocritical toward the gospel, in regards to the gospel and Galatians 2.
• 29:50
  Emeal Zwayne: And so I think that's what happens.
• 29:53
  Emeal Zwayne: You know, we just kind of they've turned Mary into something that she's not.
• 29:58
  Emeal Zwayne: She was a sinner saved by grace that God chose to use.
• 30:01
  Emeal Zwayne: And look at her response, even when, after Gabriel appeared to her, she said behold the maid servant of the Lord.
• 30:08
  Emeal Zwayne: Let it be to me, according to your word.
• 30:10
  Emeal Zwayne: Like there wasn't this.
• 30:11
  Emeal Zwayne: Like okay, cool, gabe, you know I'm the mother of God.
• 30:14
  Emeal Zwayne: You know, like are you going to say something, right?
• 30:17
  Ray Comfort: No, No, I was just thinking about what Mark said before about being chosen last in the game, And that used to happen to me as a kid in school.
• 30:25
  Ray Comfort: you know, when you're little, you're last to be chosen.
• 30:28
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah.
• 30:28
  Ray Comfort: But how consoling that is.
• 30:30
  Ray Comfort: in Christ you're first to be chosen.
• 30:32
  Ray Comfort: He's last to be.
• 30:33
  Ray Comfort: first, god comes to the humble nobodies and uses them, so it's very consoling.
• 30:37
  Oscar Navarro: The idea that you brought up earlier, that Mary had to have been sinless in order for Jesus to be born sinless.
• 30:42
  Oscar Navarro: It gets to the idea of what creates a soul, and there's two different views on that.
• 30:47
  Oscar Navarro: There's creationism and there's traducingism.
• 30:50
  Oscar Navarro: Traducingism is that the mother and the father get together and they they create the soul, like the soul is a byproduct of the parents.
• 30:58
  Oscar Navarro: Creationism, on the other hand, is the idea that God is at work when somebody is created in the womb, that he has a special, a creative aspect to creating the soul in that moment, and that is a historic, traditional view of looking at it.
• 31:16
  Oscar Navarro: That God is at work in all of us, that you know Psalm 139, that he puts us together, that he weaves us together as his poetic utterances in the womb, and so that puts that idea to death.
• 31:30
  Oscar Navarro: You don't need a sinless Mary to have a sinless Jesus, because God's the one that creates every single one of us in the womb.
• 31:38
  Emeal Zwayne: Right, you see how Mary praised God And I think it'd be good for us to look at this.
• 31:42
  Emeal Zwayne: But this is after she goes to Elizabeth and John the Baptist right, leaps in the womb And then Mary magnifies the Lord and it says and Mary said my soul magnifies the Lord and my spirit has rejoiced in God, my savior.
• 31:54
  Ray Comfort: Have you heard this sport of music?
• 31:56
  Ray Comfort: What's that?
• 31:57
  Ray Comfort: Have you heard this sport of music?
• 31:58
  Ray Comfort: I don't know that I have.
• 32:00
  Emeal Zwayne: Is there a good song with that?
• 32:01
  Emeal Zwayne: I'll have to look it up.
• 32:02
  Emeal Zwayne: For he has regarded the lowly state of his maid servant.
• 32:06
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean that in and of itself, the lowly state of his maid servant.
• 32:09
  Emeal Zwayne: For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed For who is mighty.
• 32:13
  Emeal Zwayne: For he who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is his name, and his mercy is on those who fear him.
• 32:20
  Emeal Zwayne: From generation to generation, he has shown strength with his arm.
• 32:23
  Emeal Zwayne: He has scattered the proud and the imagination of their hearts.
• 32:25
  Emeal Zwayne: He has put down the mighty from their thrones and exalted the lowly.
• 32:29
  Emeal Zwayne: He has filled the hungry with good things and the rich He has sent away empty.
• 32:33
  Emeal Zwayne: He has helped his servant, israel, in remembrance of his mercy, as he spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to his seed forever.
• 32:40
  Emeal Zwayne: So Mary is pointing to the Lord.
• 32:42
  Emeal Zwayne: She's directing people's gaze and attention toward God, not herself.
• 32:47
  Emeal Zwayne: And Ray, how terrifying is it that Catholics have the doctrine of calling Mary a co-redemptrix.
• 32:57
  Emeal Zwayne: She has a part in our redemption.
• 33:01
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean.
• 33:02
  Emeal Zwayne: That of all things makes me shudder.
• 33:04
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, this is gonna sound silly, but it all comes back to idolatry.
• 33:08
  Ray Comfort: When you understand the character and nature of God and His absolute holiness, you don't dare exalt any human being to anywhere near the status of God, and so it's a lack of fear of God That comes from the understanding of Scripture.
• 33:20
  Ray Comfort: Read Scripture, read the New Testament, read what God says about Himself, and you'll just see there's none like unto the Lord.
• 33:27
  Emeal Zwayne: Right, I remember a painting in your house many, many years ago and it was of Simeon And he was holding Jesus and a tear was streaming down his face And that always touched me.
• 33:41
  Emeal Zwayne: You know, and I try to imagine what was this, like you know, for Mary, seeing that, Where Simeon says now, Lord, let your servant depart in peace.
• 33:50
  Ray Comfort: Kill me, because I've seen Jesus.
• 33:52
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh man, yeah.
• 33:53
  Emeal Zwayne: And it said he came by the Spirit into the temple.
• 33:56
  Emeal Zwayne: The Holy Spirit was upon him and he took Jesus and he blessed him and he said Lord, now you are letting your servant And this is Luke 22 to 39 said Lord, now you are letting your servant depart in peace, according to your word, for my eyes have seen your salvation, which you have prepared before the face of all peoples, a light to bring revelation to the Gentiles and the glory of your people.
• 34:18
  Ray Comfort: That's goosebump materials.
• 34:20
  Ray Comfort: Oh seriously.
• 34:22
  Emeal Zwayne: Like like to.
• 34:22
  Emeal Zwayne: he's a godly and virtuous Jew and he's waiting for the Messiah, and now he's holding them.
• 34:29
  Emeal Zwayne: He just yeah, that gives me chills.
• 34:32
  Ray Comfort: I think Ron De Cianni did it.
• 34:34
  Emeal Zwayne: It may have been Ron De Cianni.
• 34:35
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, and there's a tear coming down.
• 34:37
  Emeal Zwayne: You see the light sparkling in the chest Beautiful.
• 34:39
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, it says it Being afraid of like not dropping him.
• 34:45
  Emeal Zwayne: And Joseph and his mother marveled at those things which were spoken of him, and Simeon blessed them and said to Mary's mother behold, this child is destined for the fallen rising of many in Israel and for a sign which will be spoken against.
• 34:58
  Emeal Zwayne: Yes, a sword will pierce through your own soul.
• 35:01
  Emeal Zwayne: also, that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.
• 35:04
  Emeal Zwayne: Wow.
• 35:05
  Ray Comfort: Was that at the foot of the cross?
• 35:07
  Emeal Zwayne: No, that was that.
• 35:07
  Emeal Zwayne: was Simeon still talking?
• 35:09
  Emeal Zwayne: No, i mean was he referring to the cross.
• 35:11
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh, I see what you mean Piercing Yeah.
• 35:13
  Ray Comfort: So piercing his soul.
• 35:15
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, i mean imagine that, though, like Mary experiencing seeing her beloved son.
• 35:23
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, he's God and he created her, she gave birth to him, and now he's on that cross Right, and I wonder if the words of Simeon echoed in her.
• 35:32
  Emeal Zwayne: No, they had to have In her mind.
• 35:34
  Mark Spence: You know what?
• 35:35
  Mark Spence: I find it ironic quiz, i guess for any of you guys.
• 35:38
  Mark Spence: What are the last recorded words of Mary inside the Bible?
• 35:42
  Mark Spence: Anybody?
• 35:44
  Ray Comfort: After the resurrection No No.
• 35:47
  Mark Spence: What mark It was at the wedding of Cana Way back then.
• 35:51
  Mark Spence: Those are the last recorded words.
• 35:53
  Mark Spence: It's not.
• 35:54
  Mark Spence: Her last words were do whatever he tells you.
• 35:56
  Mark Spence: Oh, wow Great words for us to grab ahold of and to run with.
• 36:01
  Mark Spence: You know, she's never mentioned again after Acts, chapter one.
• 36:05
  Mark Spence: Yeah, the apostles did not put her in a prominent place, but make no mistake, john undoubtedly took care of Mary as we should be taking care of our parents, or making sure that they are taken care of through the hands of other people and means that who have the ability to do so.
• 36:20
  Mark Spence: But I love those last words.
• 36:23
  Ray Comfort: That's what can be applied to a Catholic that venerates Mary.
• 36:25
  Ray Comfort: whatever Jesus says to you, do it.
• 36:27
  Ray Comfort: You got to be born again, Yeah.
• 36:29
  Oscar Navarro: That's good, you know.
• 36:31
  Oscar Navarro: I'm just thinking about what you talked about earlier, easy, which is reminded of me on how utterly different and upside down God's kingdom is.
• 36:41
  Oscar Navarro: You know you would think that a king and I know we're talking more about the incarnation, but it's there.
• 36:46
  Oscar Navarro: If you're talking about Mary, i feel like you can't not talk about the incarnation.
• 36:49
  Oscar Navarro: The king of the universe you would think would be, would we brought in on some amazing throne, born into some wealthy family?
• 36:58
  Oscar Navarro: And yet we find that God, who created everything, who spoke everything in the being, he reveals himself, he brought himself, he writes himself into the story through a low income teenager in some back country village.
• 37:16
  Oscar Navarro: And, as a friend once said, like think about this, they were.
• 37:20
  Oscar Navarro: They were born in a manger, which means the God of the universe.
• 37:23
  Oscar Navarro: The first breath that he took as a baby was filled with the smell of cow manure.
• 37:29
  Oscar Navarro: He was, he subjected himself to being held, to being held to being fragile, to being human.
• 37:38
  Oscar Navarro: This is so unexpected, but as it should be, because we have such a great big God that his ways are just so utterly different And they're so utterly beautiful that how do they not invite your heart into worship?
• 37:57
  Emeal Zwayne: That's good, yeah, and you know when Jesus had gone missing.
• 38:01
  Emeal Zwayne: You guys remember in Luke 2, 41 to 51, where he was.
• 38:05
  Emeal Zwayne: He was over at the temple and he was basically kind of instructing the religious leaders.
• 38:10
  Emeal Zwayne: They were in awe of him there.
• 38:12
  Ray Comfort: And you like to be a bee on the wall?
• 38:14
  Ray Comfort: A cockroach on the wall.
• 38:21
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh, yeah, but I mean, imagine that, you know, as Jesus is sitting there and he's, he's, he's speaking to them.
• 38:26
  Emeal Zwayne: It says they were astonished at his understanding and answers Astonished, it's 12.
• 38:32
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, And, and so then, finally, they find him and Mary says to him son, why have you done this to us?
• 38:39
  Emeal Zwayne: I love the rawness of that.
• 38:40
  Emeal Zwayne: Why have you done this to us?
• 38:42
  Emeal Zwayne: Look, your father and I have sought you anxiously.
• 38:44
  Emeal Zwayne: And he said to them why did you seek me?
• 38:46
  Emeal Zwayne: Did you not know that I must be about my father's business?
• 38:50
  Ray Comfort: Now, if he had had sin in his heart, he would have said what's the idea of just leaving me and not checking out, right, Right?
• 38:58
  Emeal Zwayne: Why have you abandoned me?
• 38:59
  Emeal Zwayne: But they did not understand the statement which he spoke to them.
• 39:02
  Emeal Zwayne: Then he went down with them and came to Nazareth and was subject to them.
• 39:07
  Emeal Zwayne: But his mother kept all these things in her heart.
• 39:10
  Emeal Zwayne: That's touching Again.
• 39:13
  Emeal Zwayne: I don't understand how they didn't understand, in the sense that this wasn't some secret, you know.
• 39:20
  Emeal Zwayne: It wasn't like they were slowly learning about who Jesus was.
• 39:23
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean, gabriel declared it clearly who she was giving birth to, but it did seem to elude them sometimes.
• 39:30
  Emeal Zwayne: I don't know if the Lord had, for certain purposes, kind of blinded their eyes in ways, but nonetheless, mary was kind of like contemplating this, like wow, maybe she thought, oh, when he becomes an adult, you know, then he'll be about his father's business.
• 39:45
  Emeal Zwayne: But Jesus is like no, no, there's a plan in all of this.
• 39:48
  Emeal Zwayne: And yeah, you know we talked about the case of the water and the wine.
• 39:52
  Emeal Zwayne: But these are, i think, two important passages.
• 39:56
  Emeal Zwayne: He turned the wine into water, that's true When I say no, i was kidding.
• 39:59
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh, can you imagine?
• 39:59
  Mark Spence: No, Get him out of here.
• 40:06
  Emeal Zwayne: But I think these two passages are extremely insightful and important for us to recognize what Jesus would have us do, and this is Mark 30, mark 3, 31 to 35.
• 40:16
  Emeal Zwayne: Then his brothers and his mother came and standing outside, they sent to him, calling him, and they were sitting around him and they said to him look, your mother and your brothers are outside seeking you.
• 40:25
  Emeal Zwayne: But he answered them saying who is my mother or my brothers?
• 40:29
  Emeal Zwayne: And he looked around in a circle at those who sat about him and said here are my mother and my brothers, for whoever does the will of God is my brother and my sister and mother.
• 40:39
  Mark Spence: And that would have been a perfect time for Jesus to elevate Mary, as is being elevated today in the Catholic church but, he did not do that No.
• 40:49
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, exactly, And yeah, that's perfect.
• 40:54
  Emeal Zwayne: And here's another example Luke's 11, 27 to 28.
• 40:57
  Emeal Zwayne: And it happened, as he spoke these things at, a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to him blessed is a womb that bore you and the breasts which nursed you.
• 41:05
  Mark Spence: But he said more than that blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it Once again another prime example where Jesus could have ran to his mom and said look, this is a woman that needs to be venerated.
• 41:17
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, No, yeah, didn't do it.
• 41:18
  Emeal Zwayne: And after Jesus died and rose again, things would have shifted now to hey, let's now venerate Mary and lift her up.
• 41:29
  Emeal Zwayne: But again, look at her position here.
• 41:31
  Emeal Zwayne: This is Acts 114.
• 41:33
  Emeal Zwayne: These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication with the women and Mary, the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers.
• 41:41
  Emeal Zwayne: She was amongst the disciples as one of them, in one accord with them.
• 41:45
  Emeal Zwayne: And what?
• 41:46
  Emeal Zwayne: in prayer and supplication, adoring the Savior.
• 41:50
  Mark Spence: And she also had other children She did.
• 41:52
  Mark Spence: Now, why is it so important for a Catholic to believe that virgin must be a perpetual virgin?
• 41:59
  Mark Spence: I mean, as if sex is a terrible thing, right, God created sex.
• 42:03
  Mark Spence: It is beautiful for recreation and procreation, and we know, i mean, there's a scripture, right, but in Matthew 125,.
• 42:10
  Mark Spence: But he had no union with her.
• 42:13
  Mark Spence: Joseph and Mary had no union with her until she gave birth to a son and he gave him the name Jesus.
• 42:19
  Mark Spence: So he had no union with her until when, right?
• 42:21
  Mark Spence: So there's a lot of scripture.
• 42:23
  Mark Spence: It's not even implied, it's very explicit inside of scripture.
• 42:26
  Mark Spence: So why is it so important for you to remain a perpetual virgin?
• 42:30
  Mark Spence: Sex is a beautiful thing.
• 42:32
  Mark Spence: Call it what it is, yeah.
• 42:34
  Emeal Zwayne: And I want to end on this note.
• 42:35
  Emeal Zwayne: I think that this is kind of parcel with what happens when we begin to give people the status that they shouldn't have.
• 42:46
  Emeal Zwayne: We just begin to create and invent things, and then it becomes this sort of well, if Mary was a perpetual virgin and or if Mary was immaculate and she's the vessel through which Christ came and we're the venerator and she's a co-redemptrix, well, you just start extrapolating from there.
• 43:06
  Emeal Zwayne: Well, there's no way she could have had sex.
• 43:07
  Emeal Zwayne: Well, no, i mean, that's the holy womb and it wouldn't have been possible.
• 43:10
  Emeal Zwayne: And you just start doing stuff like that.
• 43:13
  Emeal Zwayne: And so, ray, how important is it for us to be careful with elevating man, the application of this, because that does happen.
• 43:21
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean, this is how cults get started and how people's lives get devastated when a Christian leader that they elevated falls or whatever.
• 43:29
  Emeal Zwayne: How important is it for us to be careful?
• 43:32
  Emeal Zwayne: Very important, very very thank you for joining us.
• 43:34
  Emeal Zwayne: Elaborate ray.
• 43:36
  Ray Comfort: That's it.
• 43:37
  Ray Comfort: It's very important, don't very important Elabor ray.
• 43:40
  Ray Comfort: It's very important every, every godly man or woman should walk in humility of heart always yeah shouldn't, shouldn't want anyone to bow down to us.
• 43:51
  Ray Comfort: We've got jokes, you know, if I have dropped my notes from the pulpit Sometimes in the past, or come up to the front, bend down and pick them up and I stand up, i'm just a man.
• 43:58
  Ray Comfort: And Peter said stand up, i'm just a man.
• 44:00
  Ray Comfort: So we should never let anyone Exalt us above that which we are, and scripture says that yeah, well, let me just very quickly excited.
• 44:09
  Oscar Navarro: I love the point that you're making.
• 44:10
  Oscar Navarro: Venerate To idolatry's might sound extreme, like I would never do that to anybody, but we also have that we do.
• 44:18
  Oscar Navarro: You have a good point.
• 44:18
  Oscar Navarro: We have the tendency of lifting people up to be higher than they are.
• 44:22
  Oscar Navarro: You know, one of the most important things that my pastor always asks of us is he's constantly telling us I want a congregation that doesn't think highly of me, because when you start thinking highly of me This is his words then then you might be hesitant to call me out on sin.
• 44:37
  Oscar Navarro: You might just assume that my way is the right way.
• 44:40
  Oscar Navarro: You might get the Moses mentality of like.
• 44:43
  Oscar Navarro: Well, we can't question the visionary and the value.
• 44:46
  Oscar Navarro: The value of remembering That God wants us to be all a part of his kingdom, that we are all saints, that we are all fallen in nature And that we all have roles to play Prevents us from lifting up leaders and people in our lives and then growing blind spots towards those weaknesses.
• 45:06
  Oscar Navarro: And unfortunately we see all the time to what your point was easy.
• 45:10
  Oscar Navarro: We saw all the time in the church when leaders are for lack of a better term venerated And then people start to stop challenging them, stop questioning them and they go on to do Terrible as trotious things.
• 45:25
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah.
• 45:26
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, and and guys, it is in the heart of man, right?
• 45:29
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean we started off joking talking about the, the Beatles and stuff.
• 45:32
  Emeal Zwayne: But great, you lived back in that era.
• 45:35
  Emeal Zwayne: People, women, would faint.
• 45:37
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean the same thing happened with Michael Jackson and Elvis and I mean people would faint like oh, isn't that a form of like worship?
• 45:45
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, it really is, and I I'm so consoled by what Paul McCartney said about that.
• 45:49
  Ray Comfort: He said when someone comes up and they're just an ore of Paul McCartney, he remembers how he was when he met Elvis.
• 45:55
  Ray Comfort: He was an ore, and I remember that great quote that we found years ago where Elvis said to the Beatles if you keep staring at me, i'm going to bed Because we're all.
• 46:05
  Ray Comfort: Every one of us is just a lowly human being.
• 46:08
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, it's subject to horrible habits.
• 46:10
  Ray Comfort: We have to do every day, we have to get asleep at night.
• 46:13
  Ray Comfort: There's nothing special about us and the one we should look to as the Lord.
• 46:16
  Mark Spence: Just get close enough to smell their breath.
• 46:18
  Mark Spence: Yeah, no longer.
• 46:19
  Mark Spence: Yeah, Mark.
• 46:21
  Emeal Zwayne: It is a pretty silly notion, isn't it?
• 46:23
  Emeal Zwayne: like the thought of worshiping a Person?
• 46:27
  Emeal Zwayne: not, obviously, no one would say I worship this person or that person, but by our actions They are called idols.
• 46:35
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, that's true, but but how ridiculous that is a person that can't, at times, control their own hiccups.
• 46:43
  Mark Spence: Yeah, and you've.
• 46:44
  Mark Spence: I've heard you point that out many times.
• 46:45
  Mark Spence: It's so great.
• 46:46
  Mark Spence: Or you've asked have you ever talked to Ralph on the big white phone, ask you know?
• 46:53
  Mark Spence: just, have you ever thrown up, yeah, right, did you feel like God at that moment?
• 46:56
  Mark Spence: You know, we all are subject to the fall of Adam and we have felt those repercussions to this day.
• 47:05
  Emeal Zwayne: No, this is the one thing that boggles my mind more than anything in relation to anything intellectual anything and everything?
• 47:11
  Emeal Zwayne: No, but it's.
• 47:12
  Emeal Zwayne: It's when I hear of evangelicals that converted to Catholicism and now they pray to someone other than God.
• 47:21
  Emeal Zwayne: They bow before a statue of Mary and saints.
• 47:25
  Emeal Zwayne: I prayed Hail Mary every single night After I did my first Holy Communion or for the most part, i mean it was.
• 47:32
  Emeal Zwayne: It was very important to me.
• 47:33
  Ray Comfort: Could you please elaborate on how long ago that was, not just last week.
• 47:37
  Emeal Zwayne: What is Hail Mary?
• 47:38
  Emeal Zwayne: two days ago, but you know I this was when I was a little boy, you know I did my first Holy Communion.
• 47:43
  Emeal Zwayne: I think I was 10.
• 47:44
  Emeal Zwayne: So all the way until I was almost 16, every night almost It was my intention at least and I would pray the Hail Mary until I started going to church with my friend, maybe when I was yeah, maybe 13, 14.
• 47:57
  Emeal Zwayne: And then I'm like wait, this isn't right.
• 47:59
  Emeal Zwayne: What am I doing.
• 48:00
  Oscar Navarro: You said you did that when you were a little boy, like raise size or smaller.
• 48:07
  Mark Spence: I'll have to look at pictures.
• 48:07
  Mark Spence: You know, somebody once said Catholicism, you know, welcome to the revolving door of endless works, and when you become a Christian you're set free.
• 48:16
  Mark Spence: My brother Mike, when he became a Christian, the way he tried to explain it to me was I Found out for the first time in my life that I can skip the line and go to the front.
• 48:26
  Mark Spence: Wow, and that was like his way of saying I don't need to do anything.
• 48:29
  Mark Spence: You mean Christ did it all Exactly.
• 48:34
  Mark Spence: There is nothing you could do to earn the smile of God.
• 48:36
  Mark Spence: You know God is not impressed with anything that we do repent, trust Jesus Christ alone for your salvation and Recognize that when Jesus died on the cross, he did it personally and he paid it all in full.
• 48:48
  Mark Spence: And so that you can't pat each other on the back, it's only him.
• 48:51
  Emeal Zwayne: Amen, amen.
• 48:52
  Emeal Zwayne: Friends, and again, we said it before, but I can't reiterate it enough whether you believe us or not, we love Catholics, we care about them.
• 48:59
  Emeal Zwayne: Our hope is that today, if you recognize that you misunderstood Mary Which we do believe is one of the most misunderstood women in history that you understand her now in her proper context.
• 49:08
  Emeal Zwayne: So you have, of course, respect and honor, but but that's it that your focus would be turned to the Christ that she pointed to and That you will adore him and worship him.
• 49:19
  Emeal Zwayne: Thanks for joining us, friends.
• 49:21
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh, don't forget how to make sure God hears your prayers.
• 49:24
  Emeal Zwayne: One way is to only pray to him, so make sure to do that.
• 49:27
  Emeal Zwayne: And don't forget the evidence study Bible and the living waters mugs at living waters calm.
• 49:31
  Emeal Zwayne: Send us your comments, your thoughts, your questions at email at podcast calm.
• 49:35
  Emeal Zwayne: Podcast at living waters calm, something like that.
• 49:39
  Emeal Zwayne: What was it?
• 49:39
  Emeal Zwayne: podcast at living waters home.
• 49:41
  Emeal Zwayne: And don't forget to comment on the platforms where you listen and to give us a rating.
• 49:46
  Emeal Zwayne: Thank you so much, friends.
• 49:47
  Emeal Zwayne: We'll see you here next time on the living waters podcast, where we have no idea what we are doing.
• 49:56
  Emeal Zwayne: Doing.