Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / Northern Land Council CEO Joe Martin-Jard explains the new permit system for recreational fishers wanting to access Aboriginal-controlled waters

Transcript

Northern Land Council CEO Joe Martin-Jard explains the new permit system for recreational fishers wanting to access Aboriginal-controlled waters · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: You know that the Full Council of the Northern Land
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Council has agreed to update the access arrangements for recreational
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: fishes on waters overlying Aboriginal land from the start of
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: next year. The current arrangement cease on December thirty one
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: and will be replaced by a permit system. Joining me
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: on the line now to explain the changes is the
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: CEO of the Northern Land Council, Joe Martin Jard. Good
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: morning to you. Joe.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: It's good morning, Katie.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Good to have you on the show. Joe. How exactly
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: will the new permit system work.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: Katie, It'll be very straightforward. Before we got thousands of
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: fishes have registered on our website. It'll be a simple
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: process of going to NLC dot org dot au and
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: following the prompts.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: And Joe, it's is the permit system like, is it
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: up and running on the website?
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Or is there still a bit of work to get
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: done before it gets up.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: It'll go live just before the first of January.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Now, what's the difference between the current system and what's
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: going to come into effect from next year.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: The big difference is after fourteen years we'll be going
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: into a new era where your traditional owners will finally
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: be recognized after the Blue mut Bay High Court decision.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: And the areas that will really be affected are the
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: very remote areas where it's already abadge or land and
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: most territorians know that you need to get a permit anyway,
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: and this is just an extension of that. So it's
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: not a radical change. We've still got the long term
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: access areas that territory negotiated with the Northern Land Council
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: years ago, and that's still got some time to run.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: There's still the of the areas like Darwin Harbor and
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: by No Harbor and so on, so that's all. It'll
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: just bring a lot more certainty, Katie.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: And so Joe when you talk about the you know
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: the new system, is there going to sort of be
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: a lot more information that is going to be needed
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: by the NLC in order to get a permit and
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: how long will those permits last.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: What we're asking for it this stage is, you know,
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: just the normal things that people have always done when
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: they get permits to go on to Aboriginal land, and
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: that's their name, the purpose, the time, the location and
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: their intended length of stay and at this stage, you
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: may have only you know, you may have heard this
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: figure of two weeks, but that's just a guide and
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: and we're happy to come back to you if there's
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: any questions I can't answer today. Yeah.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: Right, So, so even though that intended length of stay
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: or there had sort of been reporting that it could
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: just be a two week period, that's not the limit
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: by the sounds of it.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: No, certainly that's not setting concrete at all. And with
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: the land based permits too, people can always extend, you know,
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: there's no problem at all doing that.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: And so Joe, would people like, if you are, say
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: in a remote community, would you need a land based
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: permit and a water based permit?
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: That's a really good question. I don't think you would
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: need both. But say if you're living at a place
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: like Maningrida, if you want to go fishing nearby, in
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: that case, I think you will need a permit to
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: be fishing.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: All right. So it does sound as though some of
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: those details are still being worked through at the moment
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: by the NLC with the traditional owners.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, Katie. We'll be going back to your
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: toos to get instructions from them and how they want
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: to see things happening on their country.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: Joe, what are the arrangements for access to there's those
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: fishing spots like the Finners and the Mini Mini.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: We're in deep talks actually with the territory government. We
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: really want to get them at the table and staying
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: at the table. We want to be able to take
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: a fair offer back to traditional owners from the territory government.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: Because we're not quite there yet, but we will always
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: keep talking to them. We really want to get some
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: agreements struck with the territory government to give certain ty
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: to traditional owners, to fishers and all the other stakeholders
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: who have an interest in this.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: What are the sticking points from the nlc's perspective and
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: the t perspective when it comes to those negotiations with
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: the Northern Territory government. What are the sticking points and
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: why do you feel at this point that you know
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: that they're sort of you know, not not at the
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: table or they're not staying at the table.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the sticking point. I'm just going to be careful
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: what I say because we're still in talks with them.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: But when we took you can offer recently to traditional owners,
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: it was a bit lowball, meaning it was a bit
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: low in comparison to other agreements, and you know, traditional
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: owners didn't think it was right and so we've come
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: back to the territory government. But to their credit, they're
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: listening to us, and so we'll think we'll come up
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: with an agreement pretty.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: Soon, Joe. When it comes to the permits and what's
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: going to begin on the first of January. At this
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: point in time, no cost involved with those permits as
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: I UNDERSTAN standard. But could there potentially be down the track.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: It's really early days and I would be loath to
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: speculate at this point about fees. It's some way off.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: And it's one of those things too where we've got
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: to go back to traditional owners and to see what
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: they think. And we think it'll be on a case
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: by case basis, because some tos would say yeah, it
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: take others will want to talk about fees. I really
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: can't predict what will happen actually.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: And then with regard I guess to creating ranger activities
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: and generating economic benefits as well for traditional owners. Is
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: that sort of where potentially that view to introduce a
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: cost for permits in some locations might come into play.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: That's a really good thought that you and I have
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: discussed before and did something that we need to talk
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: to too groups because we're thinking about fishes who end
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: up in very remote areas sometimes some health and safety aspects.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: We've had people die on country this year where some
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: men went on to a place where they shouldn't have
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: been actually and you know, sadly one of them perished
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: in the other one's hospitalized. But if we had had
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: a good permit system in place those you know, maybe
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: that could have been avoided.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: Now, just in relation I guess to you know, some
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: of the logistics of it. I know that we've been
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: contacted by a few people wondering, like, if you're doing
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: a longer fishing trip going through various aboriginal controlled areas,
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: will you need several permits.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: If it's going into Bluemont Bay, sorry, if it's going
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: towards affected by the Bluemouth Bay decisions safety going it
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: around the arum Land coast, and that takes in quite
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: a few different bits of sea country owned by different
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: traditional owner groups. We would have to consult with each
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: of those groups to get their permission to issue permits.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: But look, it's been done before. We've got passenger ships,
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: the small ones that go around the coast, and they
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: do these long range planning and we work with them.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: So it's not unusual to get those sorts of multi permits,
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: if you like, and it's something that we're good to do.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: Now, Jo another question, I guess that's more sort of
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: a logistical one. Who's going to enforce the permit system?
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: Like will there be will there be rangers out on
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: the waters or will it sort of be an honor
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: an you know, an honorary system. I guess where you
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: are expecting that people do the right thing.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're fairly confident people will do the right thing
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: because we've already had thousands of fishes who have registered,
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: so you know people are wanting to do the right thing.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: But you know what it's like, Katie, You've been out
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: on an arm land yourself. You know, you think it's remote,
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: but there's always countrymen somewhere, and you know they bring
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: uts and say who are these people? You know, we
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: don't know what they're doing in our country. And then
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: we'll certainly work with the Northern Territory Police, who are excellent,
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: plus the water police. We've got a very close relationship
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: with them, and then of course there's the range of
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: groups who are really good eyes and ears bush and
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: we'll be taking compliance very seriously. But I think that,
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: you know, the fishes are a fairly good community, and
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: you know, we've been overwhelmed with the level of interest
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: at our website, so I think it'll be a positive transition.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: And Joe just briefly as well, in terms of commercial fishing,
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: is that something like has that been taken into account
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: as well with the new system that comes into place
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: from January.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we've got a very good relationship with the CP Council.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: They're the peak body for the commercial operators and we're
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: in constant talks with them also the fish and tour
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: operators and other commercial folks. They're very professional and you know,
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: they know what's needed and they've been in touch with
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: us now for months, you know, to get ready for
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: the transition at one January.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: Joe, a quick question from a listener, how long does
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: it take to get a permit approved? Alex is wondering.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking it's like the system is automated at this
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: point and it's very quick. Sorry, I can't give you
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: were there was days, weeks, no time, but understand it's
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: very quick.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: What is your message this morning for you know, for
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: those out there listening, because I know that you know
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: that over the years, I guess this has been I
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: don't know whether contentious is the right word, but it's
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: sort of There's so many interests and so many people
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: really interested in being able to get out on the water.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: There's so many wreck fishes that obviously want to be
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: able to get out on the water in the different
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: locations where they've always fished. And then you've got you know,
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: the needs of the and the desires of traditional owners
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: and the Northern Land Council trying to sort of negotiate
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: all of this. What is your message for Territorians this morning.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: Look, we've got fifty years of doing deals on country
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: and now it'll be sea country, and we see that
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: we're all in this together in a Ural Territori. It's
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: at the end of the day, and yeah, we just
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: want to see everyone's rights respected, but also fishes to
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: go out and take their families out for the day
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: or the week or the fortnight, whatever it is, and
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: you know, just go and do some fishing out there
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: in the Great Northern Territory.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: Well, Joe Martin JARHD, the CEO of the NLC, I
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: always appreciate your time. Thank you very much for taking
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: the time to have a chat to me and my
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: listeners this morning.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: You're very welcome. Caiding no problem.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: Thank you,