Latest / The Photography & Video Show Podcast / 26: New York Jets Sarah Snyder on NFL photography; Nikon ZR and Canon C50 break new ground for filmmakers with Jon Devo

Transcript

26: New York Jets Sarah Snyder on NFL photography; Nikon ZR and Canon C50 break new ground for filmmakers with Jon Devo · The Photography & Video Show Podcast

• 0:09
  David McClelland: Hello and welcome to the Photography and Video Show podcast, your monthly take on developing camera news and insights from the frontline of photography and video.
• 0:19
  David McClelland: It's me, David McLelland.
• 0:20
  David McClelland: It's October 2025 and coming up this month.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: The photos end up in the Cannon Ohio Hall of Fame.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: And while we were in the Hall of Fame, I mentioned to him, I was like, hey, your photo's in here somewhere.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: And he was so confused.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it was funny because the team had posted about it, I had posted about it, and he had no idea that it was selected.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so he was like, You're saying a picture of me is in here, the Hall of Fame.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Yeah, it's somewhere.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: We just need to find it.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: The ways that the players would pose for his camera was a lot more serious, a lot more intense, a lot like a scary demeanor.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: But when they were interacting with my camera, they were being so silly and posing and interacting with their buddies.
• 1:04
  David McClelland: New York Jets photographer Sarah Snyder joins us to talk about building trust with celebrity sports stars, the secrets of capturing authentic moments through helmets and visors, and working as a woman in the male-dominated NFL arena.
• 1:19
  David McClelland: That's coming up later on.
• 1:21
  David McClelland: But for our first down today, joining us in today's camera news End Zone is photography writer, content creator, and camera reviewer at Digital Camera World, Amateur Photographer, and many other places.
• 1:33
  David McClelland: John Devo.
• 1:34
  David McClelland: Great to have you on the show, John.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_03: I'm loving, I'm loving the NFL references.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a big fan.
• 1:39
  David McClelland: Yeah?
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_03: Have you got a team?
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_03: Uh yeah, I support the Minnesota Vikings.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: They're not they're not the best, but I love them.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_03: They're mine, they're my Vikings.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_03: And they're actually playing in London in a couple of weeks, so I'll be going to see them.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, you are?
• 1:52
  David McClelland: At the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium?
• 1:54
  David McClelland: Is that is that one of their games?
• 1:55
  David McClelland: Yeah.
• 1:56
  David McClelland: Uh and you're right.
• 1:58
  David McClelland: New York Jets are also coming to London.
• 2:00
  David McClelland: They're playing the Denver Broncos or part of the NFL on tour.
• 2:05
  David McClelland: Uh, lots more on that with the interview with Sarah later on.
• 2:10
  David McClelland: Uh, but first of all, John, uh a bit about you.
• 2:12
  David McClelland: First time on the show.
• 2:14
  David McClelland: Great to have you on.
• 2:15
  David McClelland: You and I have rubbed shoulders on the pages of newspapers and on websites and stuff in the past.
• 2:21
  David McClelland: Uh, for anyone who hasn't come across your work, uh, who are you?
• 2:24
  David McClelland: What do you do?
• 2:25
  David McClelland: I mean, obviously I gave you an intro then a moment ago.
• 2:27
  David McClelland: But uh, what's your vibe?
• 2:29
  David McClelland: What sort of stuff do you tend to cover?
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so my my general interest area is things with cameras.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_03: So phones, smart glasses now, cameras, drones, anything that can take a bit or record a video, I'm quite interested in.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_03: But also I love luxury, so cars and all sorts of fancy home tech I'm also very much into.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, audio, of course.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_03: Come on.
• 2:51
  David McClelland: It's interesting you mentioned the smart glasses, and that's not something we've really covered on the show in any great detail yet, but we're seeing more and more cameras being integrated into the things that we wear.
• 3:05
  David McClelland: Uh, so I don't think it'll be too long before we have an opportunity to cover where these cameras fit.
• 3:12
  David McClelland: Maybe, maybe we'll have you back on the show to have a chat about those because I know there have been some developments.
• 3:17
  David McClelland: Things are moving fast in that space.
• 3:19
  David McClelland: But coming back to what's been moving quickly over the last few weeks, um, John, I know they used to say what goes in Amsterdam stays in Amsterdam, but times have changed.
• 3:29
  David McClelland: And some announcements made at IBC, the International Broadcasting Convention, a couple of weeks ago, they deserve to be shared.
• 3:37
  David McClelland: So, where should we start?
• 3:39
  David McClelland: Uh, Canon or Nikon?
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I mean, yeah, Canon and Nikon really did steal the show in a lot of ways because people have been anticipating these cameras from them for a very long time.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the Canon C50 is, I mean, it's their smallest cinema-line camera.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_03: It will do well no matter what the specs were, because people always want Canon reliability and colour science in their cameras.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_03: But I think for me, the most exciting announcement at IBC was of course the Nikon ZR, which is the first collaboration between Nikon and Red, and it's a beautiful camera.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_03: There are some things to really love about it, and some things I can't wait to actually test out when I get my hands on one.
• 4:16
  David McClelland: Yeah, right.
• 4:17
  David McClelland: So, context here is that Nikon bought Red about 18 months ago.
• 4:24
  David McClelland: I remember we were chatting about this at the in-person photography and video show the last time it was in Birmingham, and many people were rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of what a Red and Nikon collab will look like.
• 4:39
  David McClelland: Those people have had to be quite patient.
• 4:41
  David McClelland: Here we are 18 months or so later, and we're finally seeing the first kind of physical fruits of this labour.
• 4:48
  David McClelland: I I know we'd seen some bits and bobs in terms of LUTs and things pop up on Nikon cameras, but this first outing and the ZR is a good name for that.
• 5:00
  David McClelland: Um, what does it look like?
• 5:01
  David McClelland: What are you actually getting in this first Nikon Red Collab?
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_03: So, I mean the Nikon ZR obviously it has Reds colour science, Reds um codec as well.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_03: So you're getting raw video internally, 32-bit flow audio internally, which is really exciting to see because I think Panasonic really pioneered the way with the GH7 and the S1 Mark II can do that with an external device, but this does it in camera, so that's really cool.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_03: But the thing actually that I think a lot of people maybe won't be able to know without actually seeing it in person, the most exciting thing, or the thing I love most about it, is the massive four-inch LCD screen that it has on the back, which completely negates or not completely, but in a lot of ways negates the need for an external uh monitor.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_03: It's a really bright 1000-knit screen and it looks incredible.
• 5:47
  David McClelland: Yeah, okay, so obviously when you are shooting outdoors, then having a having a bright screen is is really going to be helpful.
• 5:56
  David McClelland: And I know a lot of filmmakers, particularly if they're looking for sharps and they've got peeking enabled, they might have a loop or something on there.
• 6:04
  David McClelland: Does it have a viewfinder?
• 6:05
  David McClelland: I guess is is the question.
• 6:07
  David McClelland: Is there something that you can peep through, or is that seen too much as a kind of handheld camera kind of kind of thing and not quite filmy enough?
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_03: So interestingly, in the cinema camera world, viewfinders are not a thing, as in built into the camera.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_03: They're usually external devices which you attach either through a hot shoe or through a handle that has additional accessories on it.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_03: So you wouldn't normally find a viewfinder on a camera like this, which is intended to be a cinema camera.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's why they can afford to go so big on a screen.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_03: And it's it's surprising that nobody's done that before.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_03: We've all been locked into this three-inch L C D screen thing for a very long time.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and Nikon said, Let's add another inch, and it's amazing.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_03: It really is the most beautiful and usable screen I've seen on any camera ever.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_03: That's great to see it again.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_03: The fact that no, I do have it's not all perfect though.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_03: I do have to be I have to be um objective in my assessment of the new camera.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_03: One of the things it is odd to see, um, and disappointing as someone who owns a red camera, red cameras have incredible exposure and video assist tools like false colour, light waveform monitoring.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_03: On the um on the Red Komodo X that I have, it has a traffic light system to tell you when you're peaking in different colour areas.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_03: And this has none of those tools, which is a really strange omission, and something I'm sure they could fix via firmware.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_03: But to bring a ZR out, which is the cinema camera with no false colour, no waveform, it's just it's completely baffling.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_03: And like I said, it's probably just something they're working on at and at later day, I'm sure we'll see it.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_03: But it's weird to have it released or at least announced without any of that.
• 7:44
  David McClelland: Yeah, that that that is a real shame because I know filmmakers, again, if you are looking at really controlling your environments and making sure that exposure is right in uncontrolled environments, having the scopes, having all of the support right there on the screen in front of you without having to rely on an external display, uh, can be important.
• 8:08
  David McClelland: Now, one thing that I understand people who have been hands-on with the ZR have bemoaned a little bit is that while there is an HDMI output, and of course, that's great if you do want to monitor or even record on an external device, external screen, you know, a Ninja or Atomos job, whatever, um, is that that HDMI is a I think it's a mini HDMI or is it a micro HDMI?
• 8:31
  David McClelland: It's uh a micro HDMI, so really, really small one there.
• 8:35
  David McClelland: So that's a bit of a bit of a frown.
• 8:37
  David McClelland: Um, are there any other frowns?
• 8:40
  David McClelland: I know people love the sound, the fact that it's 32-bit float, you know, so you're not going to have any uh peaking stuff, that's as good as it can be.
• 8:46
  David McClelland: But are there any other little frowns or frustrations that you've picked up on?
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean the other one that I think some people will be irked by is the fact that it only uses CF Express type B cards and micro SD card slots, which a lot of people probably don't even have anymore.
• 9:06
  David McClelland: They've been doing this since the DF.
• 9:08
  David McClelland: Okay, okay.
• 9:10
  David McClelland: That is a bit of an odd choice.
• 9:12
  David McClelland: Um, again, I guess it's one of those things where if you're kind of buying into the ecosystem, then brilliant, you know, another couple of hundred quid for media is fine, but certainly the cards that I've got around here, apart from my apart from my FS7, um, you know, it's it's SD type media all the way, even on the uh FX30 I'm shooting on today.
• 9:35
  David McClelland: So that's a bit of a frustration.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_03: Another frustration that's definitely gonna bother some people.
• 9:40
  David McClelland: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:41
  David McClelland: Um another frustration is certainly on cameras that are used for filmmaking, there's lots of mounting points, there's lots of quarter inch 20 screw threads, so you can put a top handle on, you can pop it in a cage, you can mount a microphone or a light or another lightweight accessory directly onto the camera body, or at least put it in a cage so that you can do.
• 10:03
  David McClelland: I understand that in terms of grip and mounting points, there's not a great deal of that yet, either, for the ZR.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_03: No, but they are apparently developing a top handle to go with it as part of a bundle, and a lot of people are making cages and all sorts for it, so it will be very easy to rig out.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_03: And they did have some really good examples at IBC that made it look like a really nice professional kind of production camera, but like I said, it's gonna take some adjustment because I think this is very this is a new category for Nikon, and it's the first time I think filmmakers and you know serious video creators are gonna really consider Nikon as their go-to.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_03: I think they've been moving in this direction quite well because they made the Z mount, and I think that shift was just the beginning of what they're doing now with ZR.
• 10:53
  David McClelland: Yeah.
• 10:54
  David McClelland: Nikon's been trying to muscle in on the filmmaking machine for a while, and personally, I don't think ever quite jumped on that.
• 11:05
  David McClelland: You know, we were chatting before we recorded today about how many times we've been out on shoots and jobs and seen someone shooting Nikon, and it it's not, it's generally Canon or Sony or maybe black magic or or something like that.
• 11:20
  David McClelland: Panasonic, of course, but for Nikon it's very, very rare, which is a real shame because the glass is incredible.
• 11:27
  David McClelland: Uh a reason though, why I think you're you're right, people will start to consider this is the pricing because this is really, really competitively priced.
• 11:41
  David McClelland: Um yeah, like it's it's aggressive.
• 11:44
  David McClelland: So I'm seeing£2,199 because that's how things work these days.
• 11:51
  David McClelland: That's a lot less than you would pay for an equivalence sort of camera, and certainly a a red-red camera in this space.
• 12:02
  David McClelland: So, do you think that that would also contribute to this being taken more seriously?
• 12:07
  David McClelland: And you know, we might start to see these out, maybe not as a main camera, or maybe as a main camera, but certainly as as a B camera on shoes.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I think Nikon's very aware that their perception hasn't been particularly attractive to filmmakers, and they've specifically priced this camera accordingly.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_03: They want to attract people, they know that they're not going to make a lot of money on it, but this will get people into the Z system, and that is the idea with that pricing because it is insane.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_03: Internal raw recording, 6k60p, 4K 120, fill HC240, you know, internal 32-bit flow audio for and also, I mean, the fact that it's got the Z mount, which opens it up because it's the most adaptable Z mount.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_03: Sorry, the Z mount is the most adaptable mount, so you can put practically any lens on this, even Sony e mount lenses will fit on this on the ZR.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_03: So that makes this camera a lot more attractive and a lot easier for someone to consider as a B cam, but also for someone entering into this space.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_03: This is a great starting point because of how adaptable that mount is.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_03: That's a really good point.
• 13:10
  David McClelland: Uh, you mentioned the specs there in terms of uh, you know, uh 6K 60, internal raw, all of that sort of good stuff.
• 13:19
  David McClelland: Uh, I understand that in the innards are basically the Z63, which you know, loved, loved camera, same sensor, five-axis image stabilization, and uh, and all of the auto focus stuff as well, again means that as a because it's that small format, handheld, this is gonna be great as well.
• 13:42
  David McClelland: Watch this space, and you're right, getting people into the system.
• 13:45
  David McClelland: If this is the first camera, the first fruit of the Nikon and uh red uh consummation, I'm sure was a better way of putting that, but you know what I mean.
• 13:58
  David McClelland: Um then even if this isn't the right camera for people right now, it's it's siblings, uh it's it's cousins, maybe.
• 14:08
  David McClelland: Uh it it it it it it's gonna be a watch this space uh for a lot of people, and uh well, I'm absolutely here for it, as I'm sure you are as well.
• 14:18
  David McClelland: Um also though, Canon, not one to be uh left behind or to to let its rival brands make an announcement without it having something to shout about.
• 14:28
  David McClelland: Canon also had a new camera to showcase at IBC, the C50.
• 14:35
  David McClelland: Tell me about the C50 and why this is or isn't important.
• 14:40
  David McClelland: I don't know what your view is on this one.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_03: I mean the C50 was a long time coming.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_03: I think Canon didn't have an answer to the FX3, you know, the Lumix camera, the more compact cinema-focused camera.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_03: And so the C50 is designed to do that job, and I think it will do a great job for the type of people that like the Canon ecosystem.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_03: It has obviously Canon's beautiful colour science, obviously Canon's all access to all of their beautiful lenses.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_03: But this is also the first Canon camera that introduces three by two open gate recording, which is full sensor readout.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_03: So you're gonna see a lot more people being able to use this for shooting in vertical and a horizontal format at the same time, which is a really clever introduction from Canon.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_03: And actually, they're gonna roll it out to their C400 via firmware which was also announced at IBC.
• 15:27
  David McClelland: We predicted probably right at the beginning of 2025 here on the podcast that one of the terms of the year would be open gate.
• 15:35
  David McClelland: It is, and I think we're just starting to see that prediction come true now, not only in the C50, but elsewhere in Camera News.
• 15:42
  David McClelland: And we'll cover it another time.
• 15:44
  David McClelland: The uh latest iPhone also comes out with open gate.
• 15:48
  David McClelland: So now open gate is a term that is uh uh known to the masses, and that benefit of being able to shoot uh vertical or horizontal video, no matter what orientation uh you're holding the camera.
• 16:05
  David McClelland: That's gonna be a real win, particularly for people who are rigging up their cameras, maybe do need to shoot for you know social media reels or something, but it's a real faff for them to turn their camera vertically, and the menus are all the one the wrong way around and so on.
• 16:19
  David McClelland: That alone is uh is gonna be a real win for lots and lots of people.
• 16:24
  David McClelland: Absolutely.
• 16:25
  David McClelland: It's interesting positioning, and you know, Sony's had the FX3 out.
• 16:30
  David McClelland: Uh it announced the FX2 earlier this year, which didn't really go down all that well.
• 16:36
  David McClelland: It's a strange camera.
• 16:38
  David McClelland: An oddity, shall we call it?
• 16:39
  David McClelland: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:40
  David McClelland: It certainly hasn't been as well received as I'm sure Sony might have liked it to have been.
• 16:46
  David McClelland: So that means the C50's come out at a really interesting point.
• 16:50
  David McClelland: And I mean, I think, and many others seem to think as well, that it puts Canon for now in this in this horse race, two horse race, maybe, maybe not, with Nikon now breathing down their necks, and of course Panasonica and others.
• 17:05
  David McClelland: But I think it puts Canon with a C50 a nose or a neck ahead of where Sony is with the FX3.
• 17:14
  David McClelland: And I and I love the FX3 line.
• 17:16
  David McClelland: I've I I use an FX3, I've got an FX30 that I'm filming on right now.
• 17:20
  David McClelland: I love that, but this Canon does seem to be a little bit ahead of that game right now, so it feels like it's a kind of your move Sony.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean Canon Canon has legacy in the Cine world, right?
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_03: So they're making it a C camera rather than R camera makes total sense.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it pretty much sells itself for documentary filmmakers, for smaller productions, for news productions, because it slots right into everything you already know and love about Canon cameras and their ecosystem.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_03: It has a jewel-based ISO, it has a newly designed 7k slash 32 megapixel sensor.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_03: So it also does take stills if you want that.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_03: But it's got a new menu which you can access via a switch.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_03: So when you switch it to video, it has a video menu with all of the things that match the other cinema cameras, but then you switch it to video.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, sorry, you switch it to photo, and you've got the photo menu from the Canon R series.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a really clever hybrid camera.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I think for people who need, you know, a run and gun smaller camera that you can stick on a gimbal, don't worry about it.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_03: It's gonna be amazing quality.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_03: The C50 is gonna be incredibly attractive for that type of person.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_03: And it comes with there's like a removable XLR top handle that they've developed for it as well that makes it a really good kind of all-round piece of kit.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_03: It certainly looks the business.
• 18:36
  David McClelland: I think it's the like you say, the smallest camera.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_03: The build quality is beautiful, yeah.
• 18:40
  David McClelland: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 18:41
  David McClelland: It's it's the smallest body in the cinema line, but maybe there are compromises with that size.
• 18:47
  David McClelland: And while we were just chatting about what the Nikon ZR has going for it with that five-axis image stabilization, there's none of that in the Canon.
• 18:56
  David McClelland: There's no IBIS in here, which will be a miss for some people, depending, I guess, on what lenses they are complementing the camera with.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think Canon, their thinking is the majority of people that will use this camera will be using it with some kind of stabilization, whether that is a gimbal or a steady rig, or you know, they're gonna be using it with any other type of stabilization kit.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't think they think their user is going for a camera that needs embody image stabilization.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_03: Plus, they do have really good optical stabilization in their lenses for people that are going to shoot on longer focal lengths.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_03: So I think for Canon, the calculation was we can save some money here, we don't need to put IBIS in the camera because our customers aren't going to be using it that much.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's a it's a thought.
• 19:42
  David McClelland: Yeah.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_03: I do think when people I think the problem they have is customers looking at cameras and comparing cameras, when they see that the ZR has image stabilization, internal raw, internal 32-bit flow audio, and then and a massive screen on the back, and then they look at the Canon, which has a similar form factor, slightly bigger, doesn't have image stabilization, doesn't have 32-bit flow audio, doesn't have the large screen.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_03: People will go, well, I'm getting a bit more, at least on paper, for my money if I buy the ZR, and it's about a thousand pounds cheaper.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_03: So Nikon is really, really trying to undercut Canon, and Canon is just gonna have to rely on the fact that it has a great legacy in the cinema world amongst filmmakers.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_03: So it's gonna be an interesting fight to see how that how that plays out.
• 20:30
  David McClelland: Yeah, I'm I'm seeing prices online for the C50 around about£3,299.
• 20:38
  David McClelland: So you're right, there's a good four-figure difference there.
• 20:43
  David McClelland: But uh I think when you're looking at this level of professional content creation, you know, cinema level camera, uh£1,000, you know, if it's£3,200 or£2,200, that's that's fine.
• 21:00
  David McClelland: Um it's is is it going to fit the bill?
• 21:02
  David McClelland: And you know, as a main camera, this will certainly do the job for many.
• 21:07
  David McClelland: Yeah.
• 21:08
  David McClelland: Um, it's also got some other bits and bobs in there, like uh, you know, if you are a uh frame IO user, you can you know upload camera to cloud or all of that good stuff.
• 21:17
  David McClelland: It's a nice, well-rounded package from a company that does have a rich heritage and a rich ecosystem around it in terms of cinema.
• 21:25
  David McClelland: So I can see why these would be the big two uh um launches at IBC this year.
• 21:35
  David McClelland: Final reflections on IBC, though, John, as someone who follows cameras, follows filmmaking and uh and filmmaking cameras in particular.
• 21:44
  David McClelland: What did you make of IBC in in 2025?
• 21:48
  David McClelland: Any any reflections from you?
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_03: This was by far the most packed and hectic IBC I've ever been to.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_03: There were so many new brands that I'd never come across before, so many lenses.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: Lighting, you know, NAN Lite had some incredible stuff.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_03: Golox had some really cool stuff as well.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, Pro Photo are back, they're doing some really interesting stuff in motion capture.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and also, even Sony, they didn't have a new camera to share, but they had some amazing virtual production examples and demonstrations that they had there, and they also had a really cool kind of end-to-end podcast setup that they shared um with press and journalists who attended.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_03: So I think Sony had a lot of really cool kind of behind-the-scenes PTZ-type camera stuff, um, amazing demonstrations of their autofocus capabilities now.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_03: I think this this is the best timeline to live in if you love cameras and and filmmaking and photography.
• 22:40
  David McClelland: Certainly, last year's IBC 2024, uh, lots of commentators were summing it up with two letters, AI, and you know, software reading hardware and all of that.
• 22:53
  David McClelland: Yeah.
• 22:53
  David McClelland: It's interesting that your reflections from this year are back to back to hardware, back to lighting and so on.
• 23:01
  David McClelland: Does there seem to be a bit of a softening as regards to the impact?
• 23:06
  David McClelland: Has the hype somewhat died down now when it comes to the impact that AI is going to have on the creative industries, whether still or moving images, of course, we focus on our IBC.
• 23:17
  David McClelland: Has a reality pill, I suppose, been taken, would you, would you say, or is it still bubbling away beneath the surface?
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_03: I think what a lot of people don't maybe not don't realize or don't think about is a lot of these companies are essentially designed to shift boxes.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_03: They make a thing and they sell a thing.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_03: If you go to your if you go to a convention just talking about AI and all these software solutions, you're not gonna get people excited.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_03: You're not gonna get people talking about you, and they'll ultimately you won't get many sales.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_03: You need a physical thing to get people to come to your stand to to buy into your ecosystem as a company.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_03: And I think one company that's done really well with kind of blending the two, the software and the hardware, is Blackmagic.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_03: Let's not forget them because they've done a master stroke of building Da Vinci Resolve out of almost nothing into being, you know, a really serious contender for professional video um and audio sound production.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I think they've been really pushing the the two software and hardware in conjunction.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I think they've done it better than anyone else.
• 24:20
  David McClelland: Yeah.
• 24:20
  David McClelland: Do you know what?
• 24:21
  David McClelland: I think you're absolutely right, and I'm sure many people who are watching and listening today on the on the film and video side uh of the conversation would agree.
• 24:30
  David McClelland: I I started off Premiere Pro, then jumped into Final Cut.
• 24:35
  David McClelland: When Final Cut went from 7 to 10, 7 to X, I went fully in with Premiere Pro, and I've been Creative Cloud since then pretty much.
• 24:42
  David McClelland: But more and more people, more and more freelancers who I know are saying, I'm I'm getting in with DaVinci Resolve now, and it's such a breath of fresh air, and it's not that difficult to cross-train, and there's more and more work for me in revo in Resolve.
• 24:58
  David McClelland: Uh, that has really, really be been apparent, I would say, over the last 18 months, two years or so.
• 25:04
  David McClelland: Yeah.
• 25:04
  David McClelland: Um the fact that Blackmagic bundle it with pretty much every bit of kit that you buy from them is is one thing.
• 25:10
  David McClelland: Genius.
• 25:11
  David McClelland: But now I think they're making the user interface, it's not just colour, it's just core editing, uh, really, really capable and building a lot of the AI stuff into it, you know, whether it's the voice correction, whether it's some of the image cleanup stuff.
• 25:24
  David McClelland: Uh I don't use Resolve, but I do work with an editor who does.
• 25:29
  David McClelland: And some of the stuff that he's able to do with footage without having to do a round trip around two or three different bits of software that you might have to use else, that you might have to do with other platforms.
• 25:39
  David McClelland: It's it's a real eye-opener.
• 25:41
  David McClelland: I'm not gonna lie.
• 25:42
  David McClelland: I'm really curious now.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_03: I think I think they've done a really good job of just building a full ecosystem.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_03: So obviously, they have their editing and grading panels and then all of their switching tools as well.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_03: So I think as an as a an entire approach, I think they've done really, really well to build something from you know what was the pocket camera, it was basically uh a bit of a niche kind of thing among people who really loved film and photography, and then they brought this, but they've taken that and created a whole ecosystem around some amazing products and software.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_03: And also, I just remembered, let's not let's not forget, um, Fujifilm.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_03: They showed off the Eterna 55 for the first time in Europe, a fully functioning model, and that camera we saw that was announced back in November last year.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: So this was the first time I've been able to see you know fully functioning, working one that's not under glass, and it is a beautiful looking large format um cinema camera, which won't be for everyone, but you know, it's great to see Fujifilm also making waves in this area as well.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:42
  David McClelland: Well, I think if there's one thing we take away from IBC and from, like you say, it's an exciting time to be in this field, is that it's increasingly competitive.
• 26:52
  David McClelland: And with Nikon and Fujifilm and Blackmagic, and I'm sure others would love to be in this conversation as well, and maybe are too.
• 27:00
  David McClelland: Uh, there's a lot of choice out there.
• 27:02
  David McClelland: Whether that's uh a good thing for those people who are investing in equipment right now, or whether it just adds to the confusion, I don't really know.
• 27:11
  David McClelland: But choice in and of itself is never a bad thing.
• 27:14
  David McClelland: And if that drives prices down sustainably, but also increases competition and pushes feature sets and capabilities up, then everyone who uses a camera is is going to win, I think.
• 27:29
  David McClelland: Absolutely.
• 27:30
  David McClelland: John, terrific to have your insights.
• 27:34
  David McClelland: Thank you for sharing your hands-on experiences of these cameras from IBC in Amsterdam.
• 27:40
  David McClelland: And hey, can't wait to have you back on the show.
• 27:42
  David McClelland: But for now, thank you very much.
• 27:43
  David McClelland: My absolute pleasure.
• 27:44
  David McClelland: Thanks for having me.
• 27:48
  David McClelland: As head of photography for the New York Jet, Sarah Snyder has the enviable job of making images of superstars in the world's most impressive sports stadiums.
• 27:57
  David McClelland: But despite being an American football fan from a young age and starting a photography business while still at school, her career path as an NFL photographer wasn't always an obvious one.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: What I try to capture in my work is a lot of authenticity of the players and the team and the story of the team and how the season's going, typically.
• 28:19
  David McClelland: Okay, so as we were saying before we recorded, it would be kind of easy to make pretty photographs, uh, you know, images that look great.
• 28:28
  David McClelland: And of course, given the subjects that you are working with there, the players and well, the fans and everything else that takes place around the match day experience, I'm sure that they would go down very, very well with the adoring fans of New York Jets.
• 28:43
  David McClelland: But to to understand a bit more about what it is, that what story it is you're trying to tell, what truth it is you're trying to find, you know, how you are telling these players' stories on a match day or on a much longer sort of narrative.
• 28:58
  David McClelland: I I think that's interesting.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's um, there's so many photographers that are covering this team on a game day, from like practices, all that.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of them have big platforms.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot of attention on them at all times.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think something that I've always tried to do to separate myself, as well as want to work for a team specifically, because I get to know the players better and have relationships and connections with them specifically.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: So when I'm taking photos, it doesn't feel like it's paparazzi and it doesn't feel like I am taking photos out of context and portraying the players in a way that isn't authentic.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm able to like make photos um with a lot of trust from the organization and from the team and also have a lot more access to these players because in what other job do you get to basically follow and stalk uh a large group of people for an extended period of time and kind of tell their story as a project.
• 29:55
  David McClelland: So what does is it typically a game day when you will be working with the players, or do you do preseason stuff or uh outside of when they're wearing an awful lot of gear stuff as well?
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's pretty much anything you could imagine with regards to a football team.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it's practices throughout the week.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: We cover two to three, and then we also cover all of the events that they do in the community.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: So if they're working with like a high school team, stuff like that, we all cover that.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, as well as like um, we capture all of the marketing assets for the organization as well going into each year.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: So we do a bunch of studio sets with the players and make sure that we have everything that we could possibly need to support the organization, the graph designers and the web team going into the year.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then throughout the year, we also have a really excellent documentary team.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so we do like some promo promotional images for that.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then depending on the year, we might have new uniforms and jerseys that come out.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: So then we'll also be doing studio kind of sets and stuff like that for those things.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's really all over the map.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then also supporting our in-game experience team and covering everything that happens at the stadium and the fan experience and our sponsors.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a wider variety, which keeps you kind of like always on your toes and it makes it interesting.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it is a lot.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just taking pictures of the football team.
• 31:21
  David McClelland: Yeah.
• 31:21
  David McClelland: And again, despite all of the um calling it functional stuff isn't isn't correct because you know, I know when there are new jerseys, new sponsors, all of that sort of stuff, you you need to capture that and you need to tell the stories.
• 31:34
  David McClelland: But going back to the players, telling their stories, representing their story and their journey and their personalities and stuff.
• 31:41
  David McClelland: And as fans of sport, it's the stories that engage us very often.
• 31:47
  David McClelland: And, you know, let's say you uh my wife, uh I like to bring her along to the soccer team that I support here in the UK, Leicester City, but she doesn't understand the stories of the players because that's not they're they're not the conversation she has.
• 32:02
  David McClelland: So she's kind of watching a ball being kicked around a football pitch.
• 32:06
  David McClelland: On the women's team, however, particularly the women's soccer team who've had all kinds of success over the last few years, she has invested in their stories.
• 32:16
  David McClelland: And as a result of that, she enjoys the actual matches much more because she's not watching a player, she's not watching Mary Earpse catch a ball, she's seeing a story, and characters in that story develop in front of her.
• 32:30
  David McClelland: Now, with the characters who you work with, the players, when you are trying as a photographer to help tell someone's story in a portrait situation, the eyes are quite important, the expressions are quite important.
• 32:44
  David McClelland: In American football, there's quite a lot of stuff that gets in the way.
• 32:48
  David McClelland: There's the whole aura around the players for one thing, but then when they're wearing their gear on game day, you generally can't see very much of their faces.
• 32:57
  David McClelland: So, what are the different ways?
• 32:58
  David McClelland: Is what I'm getting at.
• 32:59
  David McClelland: There, what are the different ways in which you do try to capture the personality?
• 33:05
  David McClelland: You do try to capture the story behind these athletes.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's so much that goes into that.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think one of the biggest things is emotional intelligence and being able to read how a person is doing in a moment.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: That kind of allows me to know when with a specific player, because there's 53 men on our team.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so trying to track with all the different personalities can be a lot.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but trying to know when they feel uncomfortable or if they are in a really great mood and are jumping around and dancing, when it might be more appropriate, or they might be more comfortable with me getting a little bit closer to them or potentially pulling back and going somewhere else.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's like the first piece that I thought of.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: But then from an actual technical shooting standpoint, from and I shoot at a very low F stop.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because as you mentioned, there's so much going on.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so I love being able to have like a really blurred background and really focus in on what I'm trying to show the viewer.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um and that's kind of something that a lot of people know me and my work for is I tend to use a lot of primes.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then the other thing that I was thinking too, um is technical, but because they wear helmets, um, a lot of our guys also have what's it called like a visor that goes over their face.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's uh yeah.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I try to catch focus on their actual eye, um, not necessarily the visor, because when you catch focus on the visor, that's more the helmet that's in focus.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then if I'm using a prime, their face tends to be a little bit more blurred.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: So by catching focus on the eye, it's very difficult, which is why I love it.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's such a challenge.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: But those are some of the kind of things that I try to do to get a lot of uh emotion, but then also kind of um what's the word I'm looking for?
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of dial in the viewer to what I want them seeing and what I want them focused on.
• 34:54
  David McClelland: Yeah, creating that focus when you're right.
• 34:57
  David McClelland: There is so much, there is so much noise in so many ways in uh in a sports stadium of all kinds there.
• 35:05
  David McClelland: I'm I'm looking at some of your images right now, and rightly so your work has been lauded.
• 35:12
  David McClelland: NFO Hall of Fame.
• 35:13
  David McClelland: There's the there's one that was placed second a couple of years ago.
• 35:16
  David McClelland: Is it on the cusp?
• 35:19
  David McClelland: This one's called.
• 35:20
  David McClelland: And it speaks to the two things that you just mentioned there.
• 35:25
  David McClelland: That shallow depth of field, uh, and also the fact, I mean, it's it's beautifully lit, it's beautifully timed as well, and you have the player just looking over their right shoulder, and yes, they've they've got the helmet, they've got the visor, they've got all the all the stuff that you associate with with American football, but I can see the eyes, I can just see enough, and that expression is this guy means business.
• 35:52
  David McClelland: And and and he wants you to know about it as well.
• 35:57
  David McClelland: Just just talk me through that that image, how how you made that, uh, because it it would be fascinating to learn a little bit more about was that setup, was that repertage?
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that's actually such a good example photo of all the things that you were just talking about.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because from the emotional intelligence piece and having a connection with these players, I know that player very well since he's been at the New York Jets.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: And he's the type of guy that doesn't ever want to be shown slacking or make it look like he is not always on.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of these players, they kind of flip a switch when they're on the field and kind of become a different person because they have to.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's a pretty violent sport, but he's definitely someone that has a persona of being very scary and dialed in and means business, to your point.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I know as a photographer, he doesn't want to ever be shown in a different light.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: So those type of photos, when he was looking at me like that over his shoulder, it was very in the moment.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: That was when our guys were being introduced through our tunnel uh for the start of the game.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so they're all kind of lined up and they're stopped waiting to be introduced as a team.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I try to make some portraits in that moment, but it's a very quick timing.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's maybe 30 to 45 seconds.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so I kind of just bop between the different players and see what kind of pictures I can make.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: And with him specifically, he definitely knew that I was standing right there because I was very close.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think that might have been shot on a 35 or 50 millimeter.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: And to your point, he just kind of looked over and glared into my camera.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and had I not known the guy already, I would think that he's very upset with me.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um but thankfully I know that he is just dialed in and it made for a very good photo.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: I was also just crossing my fingers.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so after the game, when I was taking a look at the photo, how I was saying before, I was very excited that it caught focus under his uh visor instead of um on the helmet.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, that was a really fun photo to turn out.
• 37:49
  David McClelland: So and talk to me about trust and about connection, because you know, in this kind of artificial setting of a photographer in a studio making images of someone who's probably paid the photographer or someone on their behalf has paid the photographer, there is a this sense of uh kind of forced trust or forced connection, and it's up to the photographer to make that real, to make those images as authentic as possible, for example.
• 38:16
  David McClelland: In the scenario in which you are working with 53 grown men who, when they're out on a pitch, as you say, flip a switch and they're in game mode and there's all kinds of stuff going on, they don't want to show any vulnerability.
• 38:29
  David McClelland: Yet surely at other times, not in the glare of however many tens of thousands of people are in the MetLive Stadium or wherever else.
• 38:37
  David McClelland: There are some more intimate moments as well that they could shy away from, not want to share with you, or they could just because they're being them in that moment, share with you.
• 38:47
  David McClelland: So, what can you tell me about the connection that you develop with the players and the trust and the uh I guess what it's obviously it's a really privileged position you have, and you never want to break that trust.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely, because our access is kind of determined by the coaching staff, and a lot of it is trying not to get in the way of these players' days and their practices and their games.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: I never want to do anything to inhibit the team.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: I only want to be there in like a documentary standpoint, to your point as like a fly on the wall.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so a lot of it is trying to reduce how much, I guess, like effect that I have, because I mean, as you or I, if a camera is in our face, I would be immediately on guard and a little bit tense and nervous.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so a lot of it starts with the moment that these players come back in the offseason, months ahead of the season.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it's smiling when a guy walks by.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: And also, it's really interesting.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, I'm bouncing all over the place.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: I have so many thoughts.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but in the age of social media, it's very helpful when these players can see the photos that you take in practice attributed to you, and they can see what it is that you're trying to show.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: And they're also seeing what the team is posting.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so they kind of know how you're portraying them.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you're not showing them in a bad light or taking a bad picture of them, or there's that kind of trust because they can actually see the work and they know that that's me taking those photos.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but then also setting a standard in the offseason of I am around them quite a bit, and even in practice, getting a little bit closer, maybe when they're talking to their coaches or if they're with their buddy or something like that.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: Just that way there's a precedent and they're already comfortable with me in moments that aren't key.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: So that when we're on a game day, they're not phased by the fact that I'm right there.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then also they don't have to be worried that I'm ever going to show them in a light that um they don't want the public to see them.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that does make for, to your point, when we're in the locker room or the game's about to start and there are very vulnerable moments where someone's getting really emotional.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: It does allow for me to be there and not pull them out of the moment, which makes the photos feel as though all of the other people are just right there with him.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, I think it's really interesting too because there's so many incredible photographers in the NFL, one of which is Sean Hubbard.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember years back we were at a NFL photographers conference, and he actually physically demonstrated how he approaches a player, whether it's during the national anthem or at their at the bench, where he was saying he starts further back and it just kind of allows the player to understand that he's in their presence and kind of forget that he's there.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: So he kind of stays there for a little bit and then maybe inches a little bit closer and then inches a little bit closer.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so it just kind of allows someone to let their guard down and you're not just like jumping in front of their face with a camera.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that is kind of the way that I approach these players as well, is I like to kind of catch them off guard a little bit by putting myself in front of them early, if that makes sense.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of like anticipating what the moment's going to be that I want to get an authentic shot of.
• 41:58
  David McClelland: Not gonna lie, the Sean Hubbard approach sounds a little bit like a a wildlife photographer approaching an animal in the wild, right?
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: It is, yeah.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: So much of documentary style photography, when I take a step back, it feels a little bit also creepy sometimes, uh, because I know that I'm just watching these players from very far away and they're not aware.
• 42:17
  David McClelland: So yeah.
• 42:18
  David McClelland: And you mentioned there about uh part of building that trust is sometimes the players will see the images that you've made of them.
• 42:25
  David McClelland: And and coming back to on the cusp there, uh was the player in question here who you had that momentary connection with, I take it that they were aware that that photo uh had a certain degree of success uh for you and for the Jets.
• 42:41
  David McClelland: Did did they ever speak to you about that and go, yeah, that was a good one?
• 42:45
  David McClelland: I like that.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's funny because I think I can't remember if he had posted it to his own Instagram or not.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think that he had, but when it was recognized in the Hall of Fame, it was actually interesting because that upcoming year we were playing in the Hall of Fame game.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so the NFL starts off every NFL season with the Hall of Fame game in Canton, Ohio.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: And um, that's where the NFL Hall of Fame is, the museum that you can see everything.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so the photos end up in the Canton, Ohio Hall of Fame.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so because we were playing in that game that year, they actually we landed in Ohio off the team plane, and they took us directly to the Hall of Fame to give a tour to all the players, that kind of thing.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: And while we were in the Hall of Fame, I mentioned to him, I was like, hey, your photo's in here somewhere.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: And he was so confused.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it was funny because the team had posted about it, I had posted about it, and he had no idea that it was selected.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so he was like, You're saying a picture of me is in here, the Hall of Fame.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Yeah, it's somewhere.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: We just need to find it.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so we went on a little like hunt trying to track it down.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: And by the time that we had found it, the buses were leaving.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Yeah, I'm sorry.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like he didn't get a chance to see it.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: And he was like, No, you know where it is.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Yeah.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: And he was like, Let's go find it.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, the buses are gonna leave.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: He was like, What's gonna happen?
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, they're not gonna go anywhere.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, they absolutely will go.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Somewhere they're going to leave us behind.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: So we ran in to try to find it.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: But it was a funny little moment because just seeing how it's a big moment for me as a photographer, but the Hall of Fame is a big deal.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you're a football player, that's kind of a pinnacle of you being remembered in history.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's cool kind of getting to see him react to that moment as well.
• 44:20
  David McClelland: So what does the typical game day look like for you?
• 44:23
  David McClelland: If you could but break it down, I'm sure there's so many moving parts to it.
• 44:26
  David McClelland: But in terms of your role and responsibility now at New York Jets, what does it involve?
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: So my job is responsible for capturing everything that happens at MetLife Stadium for the New York Jets on that game day.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's wide-ranging.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it begins the start of every week of kind of figuring out what the different departments' goals are for that game and all the different things that are going on at that game.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: So then from there, I have about five freelancers at any given game day with us outside of game action that are covering the game day from throughout the stands, um, in the tailgate area in the parking lots, all that kind of stuff to capture the fan experience and the sponsorship activations.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a very logistical uh job in that way because we have about two to three hundred requests on that front any given game day.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: So from there, it's organizing that going into the game.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then on the game day, um, I'm usually arriving about five hours in advance of kickoff.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that is to start setting up my equipment and get in position to start photographing um the uniform combination that we're going to be wearing that game.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: It kind of switches each game.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so the fans get pretty excited about that, seeing it in the locker room, then the players arriving, and then I should say the locker rooms.
• 45:45
  David McClelland: I I mean, uh I'm very familiar with Premier League football here in the UK, uh, where the changing rooms are are a fraction, a fraction of the size of the locker rooms.
• 45:56
  David McClelland: I've seen the New York Jets locker room.
• 45:57
  David McClelland: It is enormous.
• 45:58
  David McClelland: It's like a basketball court in its own right.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: It is, yeah.
• 46:04
  David McClelland: So uh in in the locker room, looking at looking at what they're wearing, getting some candid shots.
• 46:10
  David McClelland: And then what about when the players start to arrive?
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: Then when they start to arrive, is getting photos of them in their outfits.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's become a big thing for these guys.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then also for the team as well.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's usually a fan experience of the fans getting to interact with those players walking in and sign autographs.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: So after we're done capturing that, then we come back in, and there's usually a bit of a lull while the players are changing to start warming up.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: So then from there is when I'm going around and checking that all of our transmitter drop points are all running and all the cameras are connected.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: That way, in-game we'll be able to start sending.
• 46:43
  David McClelland: So yeah, I'm curious about that.
• 46:45
  David McClelland: So what when you are part of a team of uh you and five or six freelancers, what is your workflow to ensure that you're getting the images back to whoever is editing that as quickly as possible?
• 46:57
  David McClelland: Because we know on social media time is very much of the essence.
• 47:00
  David McClelland: How how does that work for you there?
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's a there's definitely a lot of uh it's a balancing act and it has gotten much faster over the years too.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: But we have a lot of fail-safes in place uh for transmitting because at these NFL stadiums, um, there are, to your point, 70,000, 80,000 fans in a stadium.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so the cell service tech tends to not be super great and that you can't rely on it.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: So we have a lot of different ways.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we have Ethernet cords that are built into the stadium that I can run over to um after a touchdown that's like 10, 15 feet away.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: There's four of them.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then I can plug in my camera, and by the time that I hit send on a photo, it's already being sent back because it's using separate internet.
• 47:42
  David McClelland: That's so you've got what, like a R1 or something like that with an Ethernet port in it?
• 47:46
  David McClelland: Got you.
• 47:47
  David McClelland: Okay.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're able to use those.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: Then as a backup, we also have um it's called it's Richard Baxson's RGM Cinnovation system.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: And he has a bridge system and then also cell packs, and they're these uh pretty big transmitters that you can have on your body.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it kind of pings the different transmitters in the stadium that we've set up.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's a backup option.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then we also, sorry, so those I need to slow down a little bit.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: Those are helpful because they're a little bit smaller and I can have them on my body.
• 48:18
  David McClelland: And you don't need to run to a drop point.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I can have them sitting and transmitting while players plays are still happening, and I can be sending as we go to kind of keep things moving throughout the game and make sure that there's really no uh lulls in the photos going back to the editors.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just kind of like a constant stream of photos being uploaded.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then um we have a few other backups, but those are the two main ones that we use.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then from an editor standpoint, we usually either have an editor up in the press box at a game or we have a remote editor that's working for us.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so they start around three, four hours before the game starts with the arrivals, but they're applying our presets, adjusting for horizon lines, all that kind of stuff.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: And how I was saying it's a bit of a balancing act is you're kind of having to play how long can I spend editing this photo and the tones to make it correct for the New York Jets look and feel versus how fast do I need to get this out?
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: How big of a moment was it that we're trying to capitalize on?
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: So different parts of the game have to move a little bit faster.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it is it's a it's a very speedy process.
• 49:20
  David McClelland: So then obviously the types of shot that you're getting during the day game seem to vary as well from the kind of candid portraiture that we uh spoke about a moment ago to the actual on-pitch action as well.
• 49:34
  David McClelland: So you've got very you you must have a very different setup, certainly a very different lens, you know, 50 mil, 35 mil, whatever you're 80 mil, whatever you're using for those candid portrait shots.
• 49:44
  David McClelland: You're not using those to capture interceptions and all the other stuff that happens in the game.
• 49:49
  David McClelland: So are you walking around with two or three cameras?
• 49:51
  David McClelland: How does that bit work for you?
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: So in game, uh to your point, I have three cameras on me at all times.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I have one of the camera harnesses with two and then one over my shoulder with the long lens.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_00: Then we also have a case that I set on the field every game day that's like right behind our home bench.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_00: And that's all the lenses that I might be able to need on that game day, as well as my batteries and extra uh memory cards.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm able to keep it right there because it's the New York Jets uh case, but I'm able to run over to that and switch it out depending on time of game.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it is really interesting.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think warm-ups in pregame would be a different set of lenses than when I go into the locker room, and then a different set of lenses when I shoot national anthem.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then kickoff happens.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: I run over to my case.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's when I grab my long lens, switch out a couple lenses, and then I get back for the game action to begin.
• 50:45
  David McClelland: You are constantly switching not only your equipment, but also, you know, your your kind of brain spaces the types of shots that you're getting as well.
• 50:53
  David McClelland: Uh it requires some some physical fitness with all that running around as as well as well as kind of mental agility.
• 50:59
  David McClelland: It does.
• 50:59
  David McClelland: I want to come back to your to your work and your workflow and and stuff in a moment, but let's just take a step back.
• 51:06
  David McClelland: How how did you how did you get into this?
• 51:09
  David McClelland: Because this is a dream come true for people all over the world to be working, sh uh, you know, making images of professional sports people right at the top of their game.
• 51:22
  David McClelland: How what what was your journey into this?
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I had started doing photography with my friends back in middle school, high school.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_00: So when I was around like 13, 14, 15, and I'm from a very small town.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_00: So people quickly noticed that I was starting to take an interest in photography and started trying to hire me to do senior portraits and weddings and engagement photos.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so I ended up starting a business in high school and I kept doing that through uh going to university.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_00: And while I was at school, I was studying to be a business consultant.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: I had always really done photography, but it's almost because I had been doing it so long up until that point, I didn't think of it as like a real career.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think part of that is it always kind of came pretty easily to me.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so as a result, I thought that's not a real job.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_00: A job is supposed to be difficult.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, against my parents' um advice, my dad was really pushing me to go to an art school or pursue something creative, uh specifically in photography.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I said no.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_00: So when I was going to university, I continued to do um weddings and things like that on the weekends just to start be making some money.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_00: Then in my last year of school, I ended up going to a photography workshop up in Banff in Alberta, Canada.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it was there that I started seeing different photographers that were doing keynotes in completely different fields of photography, in working for themselves and for freelance, for working for car companies, all these different areas that I'd never seen before.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_00: I thought if you're going to be a photographer, you are a wedding photographer, or you take photos for individuals in your community.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't know that there were other ways to make that your profession.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_00: So coming out of that, I had decided I think I want to pursue photography professionally.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't know in what capacity.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_00: So in my last year of school, American football is very big.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: And it was at the college that I was going to.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I saw a lot of people that were on the field with very big cameras, and I thought, I want to be on the field.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's just a cool experience.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I have a really nice camera.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: I wonder if they'll let me go down there.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I applied to a bunch of different uh clubs and organizations, ended up being hired for a couple.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so in my last semester of school, I shot every sporting event that I possibly could.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_00: I shot an American football game, and a really big player at my school hurdled a player in front of me.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I got this uh action photo.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember thinking that it was so incredibly cool.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_00: It was very difficult, and it was nothing like I'd ever shot before.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think that's what kind of got me hooked.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_00: It is what got me hooked.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I was so excited leaving that football game that it kind of I started looking to see are these jobs that I could pursue?
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm seeing a lot of people on the field.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_00: There must be ways to pursue this.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I ended up applying for a job with the National Football League directly.
• 54:23
  David McClelland: Um you went straight in there.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_00: I found it online, had no connections, uh, and I just applied, didn't really know what the job entailed because, like I said, I was very new to this whole field.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um I ended up a couple months later getting a phone call and interviewed on the spot to work for the NFL as a live content creator.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_00: And basically they were hiring different content creators in every city that there was a stadium.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so I would be shooting for the National Football League itself for their social media channels, but then also for the away team as a support staff if they didn't travel as many photographers, and then also for the home team if they had anything that they needed me to be shooting.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_00: So that was my entry point to the NFL.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I kind of gave myself that year after graduating college that I'm gonna try this out, see if this is even something that I want to be doing long term, and then from there see where it can take me.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that year, I was seeing all the team photographers that work for the organization, and I thought it was the coolest thing ever that someone will pay you to take photographs for a team full-time.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_00: So then from there, I really wanted a mentor and ended up finding that the NFL has postgraduate full-time internships that are about a year long.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_00: Ended up coming out to the New York Jets to work with my favorite team photographer, Dan Twikowski, and then from there have been in the NFL for the past eight seasons.
• 55:47
  David McClelland: That mentorship's really, really interesting and important.
• 55:51
  David McClelland: And I don't know that we really have enough of that in other parts of the imaging industry.
• 55:56
  David McClelland: It's funny, you know, you're talking about your parents, uh, your your dad there angling you towards the art side and photography, you wanting to do business, usually in my experience.
• 56:07
  David McClelland: It's the other way around.
• 56:08
  David McClelland: I'm curious as to how the you know the the business consulting stuff that you l in theory left behind at college, as you have pursued your career and you've been with New York Jets for what, seven seasons, eight seasons, something like that now.
• 56:24
  David McClelland: Has that uh have those skills that you kind of in theory put on the back burner, pending how your year out of college went, have they in some way still been useful in other ways now as you've pursued your photography career?
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's so important when you're in a creative role but working for a larger organization to keep in mind why you're there and why you're hired.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so much of my job is portraying this team in a great light and trying to push the business forward.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's all of working for a team, is that's where your priority is, it's winning football games and helping the organization succeed.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_00: So from there, it allows me to think in a different way about our images and how they're being used throughout the organization, whether it's from a marketing standpoint or getting new sponsors and partners on board to work with the team or product placement in photos, things like that to just be mindful of all times.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's been really helpful.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then from the strategy standpoint and the leadership standpoint that I had studied in university, that's been very helpful with working with other people.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_00: And also how I was saying all the logistics that go into planning a game day, as well as managing our financial budget for photography and all of those different aspects of billing and invoicing that we do with our freelancers.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's all coming through me as well.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_00: So that kind of did give me a different background than a lot of photographers have going into these roles.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I think um allows me to look at my job in a very different way.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um so on game days, I can be very creative, but still in the back of my mind, have why am I here?
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_00: Why am I getting paid to do this?
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 58:01
  unknown: Yeah.
• 58:01
  David McClelland: It is that it is that balance.
• 58:03
  David McClelland: And as we've reflected on this podcast many times, show business, it's two very different words, but you need to be able to uh have them in the right balance in order to uh carve a career in in many ways in this industry.
• 58:19
  David McClelland: And j just coming on to the other responsibilities that you have there.
• 58:23
  David McClelland: Obviously, yes, you you've you are creating, you are making images in in all different ways to meet different needs on on the game day uh and before and after that as well.
• 58:33
  David McClelland: But uh just looking on your LinkedIn, Sarah, uh I saw all kinds of other bits that were kind of inside that job description there, digital archivist and uh uh and so on.
• 58:44
  David McClelland: So what what's all of the other stuff that goes alongside making the images on the game days?
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I manage uh from a digital archive standpoint.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_00: We have a staff digital archive that the whole organization has access to.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that's how I'm delivering photos to all the different departments and making sure that everything is being tagged with the correct player names, the sponsor names, making it as easy as possible and as to intuitive as possible for people that aren't photographers to find what they need to support their own roles.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then also managing how the players get their photos.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I manage those platforms as well to be sending out the photos to the players.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_00: That way, by the end of the game, they have photos already uploaded to their accounts and can access them and post if they would like.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, it's it's a big undertaking.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of teams will have um someone that's full-time doing uh damn data asset management.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's kind of baked into my job as well.
• 59:42
  David McClelland: Big job, big job.
• 59:43
  David McClelland: And uh, I think as if all of the different uh tasks that you're performing on the game days themselves isn't enough, all of that around it as well.
• 59:51
  David McClelland: You you carry a lot on your shoulders there.
• 59:54
  David McClelland: Yeah.
• 59:54
  David McClelland: One thing that we haven't touched on yet that I I I'm sure you get asked a lot, and I'd like to find out as well, is clearly you are a woman in a very male-dominated environment, at least on the pitch in uh in professional sports, in American football there.
• 1:00:12
  David McClelland: How how's that journey been for you?
• 1:00:15
  David McClelland: And maybe how has it how has it changed?
• 1:00:18
  David McClelland: Because you've been in that arena for getting on for a decade now, perhaps.
• 1:00:23
  David McClelland: How have you seen it change in that time?
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it was really interesting because when I started out, I it was so naive in the fact that I didn't know anything about the field of sports photography or working in the sports industry.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_00: So if everything was new that I was hit with going into it.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the first year that I worked in the NFL, I was in the Pittsburgh market in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that tends to be a more like rural blue-collar kind of area.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_00: And there weren't, I think myself and one other woman were on the field for game days, and that's including all of the other photographers and reporters that were on field.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so that was a little bit jarring um in maybe how I was, and not necessarily in a bad way, but treated by other photographers and taken seriously.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it wasn't something that really fazed me because I don't think I knew any better.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was new, and so I was just trying to learn.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then as I've continued my career, to your point, it's gotten much better in that there are so many other women that are working in different capacities in the National Football League.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you see women that are coaches and scouts.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_00: And um, in my department in 2025, we have 10 women working in content and multimedia, which I've never seen before.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it's changed a lot.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think primarily it's been really interesting to your point when I'm on the field.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when I started out, I might have been one, if not two women on a field of a hundred.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that uh it definitely informed how I approached doing my job.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to blend in as much as possible.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't want to stand out in any kind of regard, um, and just wanted to be known as someone that put my head down and just did my job and was there to work because I was, and I really wanted to do this, and I didn't want anything to ever possibly jeopardize that in how I moved and acted.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_00: So that was really interesting.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then as more team photographers were women, so sorry, I'm bouncing around a lot.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's been now so many seasons that things kind of uh get a little complicated in my mind.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_00: When I started, I believe there were two or three full-time female team photographers, and I looked up to them tremendously.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that's why when I had started, I never questioned whether or not this is something I could pursue because I was already seeing people that were doing it, and that meant a lot to me.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_00: So it started with about three, and then now I think holy cow, we have I think it's over 10 plus team photographers that are women in the National Football League.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I bring that up because these players are very transient, they move to different teams constantly and are being traded.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_00: And and so them having experiences at other teams with team photographers that are women really helps then when they get to the New York Jets and have a team photographer who's a woman.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_00: And you just kind of see it get better over time with how much more relaxed people are around with you being there.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then the last thought thought that I had uh when you brought that up is I was doing a um photography like online workshop, and there was a speaker who was a woman, and I can't remember her name off the top of my head, but she did a lot of baseball work, American baseball.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_00: And she was asked a similar question about being a woman working in professional sports and especially a men's sport.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_00: And she had said that it actually her being a woman actually helped her in her job.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought that was pretty interesting.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_00: I've never heard someone start off from that point of view.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_00: And she was saying that as a woman, um, a lot of these men kind of drop their guard when you're around when you're working with an athlete directly.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_00: So if there might be another man in front of them, uh, they might feel the need to like put on a bit of a show and have like their walls up a little bit.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_00: But she was saying in her experience that being a woman, they kind of let their guard down a little bit.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought that was a really unique um take on being a woman in sports, and in a way, could be a bit um of a superpower for me rather than something that holds me back.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I don't know, it's just really interesting seeing the way that different people would approach it.
• 1:04:40
  David McClelland: Well, so that reflection there about being a woman in a man's sport, being different and standing out, something that you say earlier on in you tried not to do.
• 1:04:51
  David McClelland: Has that been your experience as well?
• 1:04:53
  David McClelland: I mean, is is it something that as you reflect back, maybe I wouldn't have got that shot, maybe I wouldn't have had that connection or even had that conversation were I another man, for example.
• 1:05:04
  David McClelland: But now you realize what once you heard that um uh other photographer reflect on that, you realize that maybe that's been the case for you as well.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_00: As you say that, 100%, because I have been at organizations specifically at the New York Jets where it was myself and a man, Dan Spagowski, who's the other team photographer, and it was the two of us.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_00: And we actually talked about the differences in the ways that the players interacted with us.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I think one of the biggest things is that with Dan's photos, looking back at what that would have been 2019, 20, 20, 21, or sorry, 2021, 2022, while he was also the team photographer, um, the ways that the players would pose for his camera, because a lot of them will come up to you and just pose for the camera, uh, was a lot more serious, a lot more intense, a lot like of scary kind of uh demeanor.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_00: But when they were interacting with my camera, they were being so silly and posing and interacting with their buddies.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it was so funny.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because my boss Dan would call that out a lot, that the players would never do that in front of his camera.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_00: And we couldn't decide whether it was chalked up to whether it was the fact that it was a woman or maybe a personality type, that I tend to be a little bit sillier and smiley.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_00: But uh it is interesting as you bring that up, seeing the differences in contrast, because I've been in situations where there are a man and a woman team photographer working at the same organization.
• 1:06:26
  David McClelland: The NFL isn't just in North America, it is traveling all over the place.
• 1:06:31
  David McClelland: And uh New York Jacks will be New York Jacks will be playing the Denver Broncos, I believe, uh in London very, very shortly as as we speak.
• 1:06:40
  David McClelland: I looking on your Instagram, I'm sure I saw one or two pictures from the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium.
• 1:06:45
  David McClelland: You've been here before, haven't you?
• 1:06:47
  David McClelland: Uh how has how what's been your experience of bringing a uh very much American sport to other countries?
• 1:06:56
  David McClelland: And hey, be because we're in the UK, what's it been like bringing that to London?
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's been so interesting.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_00: There's so much that goes into it from the team standpoint where these organizations aren't that massive.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's a lot of working with people that are already in the UK and in London on the ground to capture all the things that we need.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I've been working with a lot of photographers in the London area, um, and that's been really exciting.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_00: Finding people that are already either working at Tottenham or in the area with different fan bases that already have that kind of experience and have an understanding of the fans, and then also a very good understanding of the stadium in and of itself.
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, there's a lot going into it because as these teams are working in different markets, they're trying to capture a new fan base and kind of get fans on board with their organization.
• 1:07:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's been very interesting being a part of how the team is putting on these activations and these events to kind of capture interest in the New York Jets um overseas.
• 1:07:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's been really cool.
• 1:07:58
  David McClelland: Former guest on this very podcast, Miles, Miles Myescuff Harris, uh who uh knows a thing or two about retro cameras.
• 1:08:06
  David McClelland: I understand that you've been engaging with him in some way.
• 1:08:09
  David McClelland: Is that anything you're allowed to talk about?
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I had been seeing his videos on social media for quite some time, as many people have.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_00: And my boss, Dan Smikowski, the last time we were in London, oh wait, yeah, last year, um, he had reached out to Miles about potentially coming out to one of our games in the New York area because we were doing throwback uniforms that had just been launched.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so for the game that we were gonna be wearing the throwback uniforms, Miles came out and was shooting on an older camera to kind of capture um that and create some content around it.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_00: And he made some really cool stuff for us.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and for his platform as well at that game.
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_00: We also had him um and I can't remember his name off the top of my head, but they came out and were developing film on site at the stadium to turnaround day of.
• 1:09:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um it was super interesting and such a cool experience to watch.
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then scanning in the photos at the stadium to then be posting on social media.
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that quick turnaround um that we hadn't really seen in the National Football League Half In was really, really cool to try.
• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then he had been at the game working, I think directly for the National Football League when we were in London last year.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_00: Then we're actually bringing him out again to our London game and some practices and things that we have going on uh this upcoming year.
• 1:09:29
  SPEAKER_00: So really excited to see him in a few weeks.
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_00: But we've been a lot of conversations about just kind of how um we can create some content using different cameras and things that people innately find very interesting.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then also his platform in and of itself, his audience loves to see the things that he's doing.
• 1:09:47
  David McClelland: So yeah.
• 1:09:48
  David McClelland: Uh big shout out to uh Expired Film Club there on on Instagram, and of course, Sarah, we will give shout outs to your socials and the NFL socials, uh New York Jet socials as well.
• 1:09:59
  David McClelland: And we'll be seeing your images there, uh, not only from what's happening in in New York, but also in London over the next few weeks.
• 1:10:06
  David McClelland: Finally, though, finally, aspirations.
• 1:10:09
  David McClelland: I mean, I I don't know how much your job has has changed.
• 1:10:13
  David McClelland: You know, football is football, isn't it?
• 1:10:15
  David McClelland: I I don't know.
• 1:10:16
  David McClelland: Uh how how do you see things changing and how does that align with Sarah and where Sarah Snyder wants to go with her work next?
• 1:10:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's really interesting because to your point, the priorities of the organization can change year over year.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I've tried to build out our photo department in such a way that um we're really working with excellence, not only covering what's happening on field, but throughout the stadium and the fan experience.
• 1:10:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's a lot of opportunity there of capturing more of like a fan POV on a game day and making the people that are viewing these images, whether it is on social media or um when they're looking at our website to buy tickets, that they can feel like they're there and they can envision themselves in our in our stadium and watching the football game.
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_00: So that's been really interesting to think about the new ways that we can capture that.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_00: For example, I got an 800 millimeter lens to be using at football games this year, specifically to be shooting our intros and our runouts that our players do on a game day from across the stadium and just trying to think of new ways to cover the things that happen every single game has been really fun.
• 1:11:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then also getting a lot of inspiration from um photographers that aren't necessarily in the National Football League or even in sports.
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_00: But recently, a lot of F1 photographers have been really inspiring and making me think differently about how I approach shooting a game.
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I was listening to a podcast, I think it was in 2020, and he was talking about how with social media you can take a photo and show someone what you saw.
• 1:11:53
  SPEAKER_00: And in the caption, you don't necessarily have to say, I was at this football game and this team won because people know it and they can see it in the photo.
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_00: But trying to use um whether it be captions or the way that you're shooting in such a way that sorry, I'm bouncing around a lot, but I have access that not a lot of people get to these players and to this team.
• 1:12:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so actually utilizing that as much as humanly possible to kind of show people what they wouldn't otherwise be able to see of this organization.
• 1:12:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, sorry, it's just the different ways of looking at it constantly keeps me inspired.
• 1:12:30
  David McClelland: I I can hear the I can hear the sparks of inspiration bouncing around there.
• 1:12:34
  David McClelland: And it's I I guess it it would be very easy to say, oh, there we go, there was 25-26 season.
• 1:12:41
  David McClelland: Here comes 26-27, brilliant, let's go and do that all over again with uh, you know, half a dozen new players and let's make sure that we get plenty of them.
• 1:12:50
  David McClelland: It'll be very easy to get uh I don't know, set in your ways, but of course the work the the context in which we're consuming the images that you are making there, whether it's you know social media or whatever else, is changing, the fashions are changing as well, and the kinds of images, the kinds of um uh creative that engage an audience change every year as well, but also the fact that you're taking your inspiration from other mediums.
• 1:13:18
  David McClelland: You mentioned F1, there's so much creativity in in F1 at the moment, it's it's fascinating to watch.
• 1:13:23
  David McClelland: So great to see always what happens when you bring stuff together and watch the sparks fly.
• 1:13:31
  David McClelland: Sarah, it's been great to chat to you today.
• 1:13:34
  David McClelland: Thank you very much for taking time out of your busy season.
• 1:13:36
  David McClelland: I know you've got game coming up uh beginning of next week, and then you'll be coming over here to the UK for the uh Denver Broncos versus New York Jets at the beginning of October.
• 1:13:46
  David McClelland: Thanks again, and we'll put links to all of all of your stuff in the show notes for this.
• 1:13:52
  David McClelland: Uh hope to hope to catch up with you again in the future.
• 1:13:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:13:55
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me.
• 1:13:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's been an honour.
• 1:14:00
  David McClelland: A big thanks to the New York Jets and to Sarah for joining us on the podcast.
• 1:14:04
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• 1:14:08
  David McClelland: And a reminder that the NFL, including the New York Jets, are coming to London to play games in October.
• 1:14:15
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• 1:14:17
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• 1:14:20
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• 1:14:27
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• 1:14:36
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• 1:14:40
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• 1:14:45
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• 1:14:48
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• 1:14:50
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• 1:14:51
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• 1:14:54
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• 1:14:58
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• 1:15:02
  David McClelland: A reminder that the in-person photography and video show returns to the NEC in Birmingham.
• 1:15:07
  David McClelland: Back to Birmingham, everybody, between the 14th and the 17th of March 2026.
• 1:15:13
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• 1:15:16
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• 1:15:27
  David McClelland: We'll be back on the first Thursday of next month with more photography news and chat.
• 1:15:33
  David McClelland: But for now, from all of us here, bye bye.