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The Mentor Sessions | The Lex Street Massacre: What Really Happened Behind the Headlines · The Mentor Sessions

• Antonne Jones: it was in December of two thousand in West Philadelphia. Four guys had burst into a drug house and shot ten people. Seven of died. The city was in a complete uproar. BigMike Coyle: Welcome back to the mentor sessions, everybody. This is your host, Big Mike. Today I'm joined by Anton Jones out of Philadelphia, one of my favorite cities. And we are going to talk about a horrible story that he has spent a lot of time researching. And it it really shows the impact that positive mentors can have on someone's life and help get them off the wrong side of going down a horrible path. Anton, thanks for joining us, man. I'd like to just start out Antonne Jones: Thanks for having me. BigMike Coyle: asking a question. what are what are your core values that you believe in and and try to share with people? Antonne Jones: Excellent question. Truth and accountability, ownership and independence. Those are my main four right there that I it's my mantra that I live by. accountability is something that is so important and so understated. And that that's where once I learned to be more accountable, just from a personal perspective, more accountable for my own actions, the better person I became. So those part of those are my four cornerstones core values. BigMike Coyle: So what what helped you learn the importance of accountability? Is there a certain in incident in your life that helped you understand why it was important to be accountable? Antonne Jones: Yes, y you know, I I tell the story of my life like this. I was a good kid that went bad, they got good again. If that makes sense. yeah, I I grew up in a really loving family, big family. family meant everything to us. my grandfather, grandparents, they were from down south, hard working, They had fourteen kids. My mom had thirteen brothers and sisters. And I saw what hard work does, what family core values mean. I had, you know, pretty nice growing up. And then I went left for a while. You know, around tenth grade, eleventh grade. I made some poor decisions and Those decisions cost me a lot of time. Not jail time, but a lot of time and other things that I could have been benefiting doing better at. But once I've learned to not blame others for my situations and became accountable for my own actions, that's when a change in my life began to make a difference. That's when I started changing. BigMike Coyle: when we get to a certain point and I I I think if it's like that's where we decide, okay, we gotta test the waters and see and Antonne Jones: Mm. BigMike Coyle: and as parents and as mentors, we kinda have to let our youngins get to that point of like, Okay, now you're gonna find out what real consequences are. Antonne Jones: For sure. BigMike Coyle: And and you know, hopefully we have a foundation to go back to when when we do slip, because we're all gonna slip and fall back and and we have have to have that foundation of family, of community, of of faith or whatever it is that we have to get back to and like, okay, I know where I'm supposed to be now and take us along a different path. And I've seen that in my life many times and in my my kids' lives and The kids I I kinda coach and mentor, it's like, all right, buddy, you know what you're supposed to be doing. Now, why aren't you doing it? Antonne Jones: You y you mentioned something that was so important in Ravitru Foundation. When you have that foundation, no matter how far you move away from that path, you always have that foundation. You still have that core those core values are still in you. No matter how far you deviate from that. And fortunately I was able to remember that and trying to draw it back on there. Because I saw both sides, you know, what that life was like. before then and then the life was like that I was choosing at that time. And I said, you know what? I like this one better. But again, having those core values, those f that foundation was so important to me. BigMike Coyle: So was there a a funny time in your while you were going is there is there a funny incident from that time that you were able to reflect on that you were like I better go another direction than I am at right now. Antonne Jones: absolutely. I have I have a couple of But one I I'll be specific. I had gotten arrested on a case, right? And I went in front of the judge. I was on probation actually, and I violated my probation. And with the violation, that meant that you went back in front of your judge, your sentencing judge. So I went back in front of him. And his name was Judge Hal Abramson, really great guy. So he tells me, he said, Hey, Mr. Jones, listen, I don't think you're a bad kid. I think you're a very nice young man. But you have a problem. And he said, This is what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna send you the outpatient treatment. If that don't work, I'm gonna send you the inpatient treatment. And if that doesn't work, I'm gonna send you to jail. That was my aha moment. I said, okay. It's time to straighten up. You know, it was kinda funny later on, but at the time it wasn't funny. But I said, you know what? It's time to straighten up. And you know what? From that day on, it was beginning of me straightening up my life and getting BigMike Coyle: How old were you when that happened? Antonne Jones: Okay. I was probably maybe like around nineteen or twenty, I believe. Nineteen or twenty. BigMike Coyle: So did you learn then when you went to outpatient program? Did you did you start to figure things out? Antonne Jones: I did. I had a clear head. and then I realized that it, you know, the direction I was going wasn't the direction I wanted to be in. I I realized I was better than what I was doing, you know, and how I was acting. I wanted better. And then around that time also, that's when I had my first daughter also. So it was a lot going on around that time. So that transition period of my life was probably the best thing that ever happened to me. And the funny thing is that same judge Judge Hal Abramson, I saw him maybe four or five years later when I was working. I got a job at Home Depot. And that was kinda like my bounce back job. And I saw him in Home Depot and I told him we had a brief conversation, he remembered me, and I thanked him. I thanked him so much for what he did for me and how much of a difference that made in my life. BigMike Coyle: Yeah. It it's you know, being in law enforcement and and I reflect on this a lot, sometimes it's so hard to remember that the people that we're dealing with are people and they're not always bad people. They're people that they get trapped in situations, they get trapped in a system that can sometimes be very self defeating and hard to break out of. And for the judge to recognize, like, hey, I don't think you are a bad person and You are not made for this road going down. And one of the things I we we talk a lot about here on the mentor sessions is your past doesn't define who you are. Your past doesn't define who you can be going forward. And a lot of people tend to get stuck in, well, this is just who I am. They put those labels on themselves. This is just who I am. Like they get stuck in this mentality, like this is the only direction I can go. And if we can tell people like this is not the only road you can go down and helps help people see, help each other see the whole other world that's out there for them, it Antonne Jones: Sure. BigMike Coyle: really is kind of mind blowing that when somebody has that insight, like the judge did to you, what kind of impact was your behavior having on your family that you were growing up with? Antonne Jones: You know, my mother was disappointed. I disappointed a lot of family members because as I mentioned before, I was a good kid. I was I went to Catholic school most of my life. was a honor student. I went to one of the best high schools in in the country as far as sports and I played basketball at Roman Catholic High. And I disappointed a lot of people. I really did. And at the time I didn't really think that much about it. But later on I realized how disappointed I was with to them. But at the same time, they were still supportive. You know, I don't remember anyone telling me, like putting me down or saying, you know, how much of a disappointment I was, even my mother. I just remember one of the one of the things, and to this day, I'm 54, and me and my mother still talk about this on my birthday. I remember her telling me that. I won't live to see my sixteenth birthday. And then she said, Anton, you won't live to see your eighteenth birthday. And then finally she said, You won't live, Anton, the way you live, you won't see 21. And I made 21. So every year now on my birthday, I always me and her have this run and joke and laugh about it. But the seriousness of that, as a parent now, I can see I can't imagine the pain that I caused her for her to even say that. And she wasn't saying it in a bad way. She wasn't saying it to make me feel bad. She was just letting me know that the path I was going on was so destructive that I probably wouldn't last those over those years. BigMike Coyle: That's a very important thing. And now as as a father yourself, as you see your kids growing up and and maybe testing the boundaries, what is what steps have you taken to kind of help push to keep them in the right direction? Antonne Jones: Well, you know what, my youngest is thirty one now. But I don't care how old they are, they're always gonna be your kids. They're always my kids. BigMike Coyle: Always your kid. Antonne Jones: The most important thing for me, for my kids, was f to set a good example. You know, I can say a million things, talk to them, I can mentor, tell them, you know, what right and wrong. But I think the most effective thing I could have done and could have done for my kids is just be a starling example. as much as possible. You know, actually living out what I'm saying. And they look at me and they say, okay, you know, dad's not perfect. And and one of the things I did, Mike, I made sure I let my kids know I made mistakes. And I still make mistakes and I will make mistakes. But it go back to what we were talking about, those core values of accountability. And that's why I try to instill in them. Hey listen, you know what, you make a mistake, it happens. But you have to own it. And then what in addition to that, what are you learning from it? Make sure you learn something from it. Now, I wasn't a perfect parent. I I obviously as you go older you get better. And then when you become a grandparent, you're the best parent, you know? and I'm a grandparent now too. BigMike Coyle: all the struggles we went through as parents with our kids, that's like the the the reward, So what got you into journalism? Antonne Jones: I always liked to write. I was always a writer. My grandmother was a writer, my mom was a writer, my mom's brother uncle my uncle Kevin was a writer. So writing was always in the family. And I always enjoyed penbinship. I used to win penbership awards in school. Really nerd stuff like that. Around the summer of ninety five me and a friend, we went to go see a movie called Dangerous Minds that had you remember that movie with Michelle Pfeiffer? BigMike Coyle: Yeah. Antonne Jones: she was a school teacher who went to the right. So she was the school BigMike Coyle: That's right. That's right. She was the Marine that went into the inner city schools, right? Antonne Jones: Yes. BigMike Coyle: Yeah. Antonne Jones: So I went to go see the movie. and I was actually appalled. I thought it was very stereotypical of schools in inner city and then like you had her coming in basically civilizing the natives. Now that was just my take on it at the time. So after watching the movie, I said, you know what, I want to write an editorial about this. And we had a local paper in South Philly called the South Philly Review. and I wrote an article about it. I had my mother fax it to them, but there's a fax number on the paper for editorials. So I had her fax it. That following week it was post they posted. And I was like, wow. And I was from that point on, I realized the power of writing that you have and publishing. after that, like every other week or couple of times a month, I would write editorials about different subjects and different things like that. Then it moved on to like the Philadelphia Daily News and then I was doing other editorials and that's kind of where it started from. BigMike Coyle: So it started just writing letters to the editor, if you would. Were the Antonne Jones: Yep. Yes. BigMike Coyle: newspapers getting an interest in what you were writing? Were they finding your writings interesting and and wanting to get more out of you? Antonne Jones: Well, you know, th it was interesting enough that they were publishing all the ones that anyone that I faxed them or sent to them, they published them. So you know, did they offer me a job? No. But I took solace in the fact that they actually were publishing their articles and allowed my voice to be heard. BigMike Coyle: Yeah. No, that that's what's important. I'm a big I like to write. I need to write more. I just throw it all out on the page and then go back and edit it and fix it later. Thankfully there's like more tools for me to do that now than there were in in high school. I wish I had the same tools to help me write clearer and better than you know, but we didn't have such beautiful things that long ago. back I had computers, my dad being in computers growing up, we had computers around the house. But I was still one pecking and then in high school, I think typing was a required class. So we had to learn how to type, you know, and but it was on typewriters. We still had to just hit and peck So who was there to help you stylize your writing and and have your voice get out there the way you wanted it? Antonne Jones: I the main thing was for me was learning the format and the process. And what I did was I I bought two books. One book was called The Guide to Self-Publishing by Dan Pointner, and the other book was called Screenplay by Sid Field, a renowned screenplay writer. And those two books helped me in terms of format. and how to structure and so forth. Now as far as the creative style, one would think that it it was inspired by other writers, book writers. It wasn't. My writing style and my creativity actually came from hip hop. I'm early generation yes. I'm early generation. Yeah, yeah, we're BigMike Coyle: Really? Yeah we are. Yeah we are. Yeah we are. Antonne Jones: yeah. So I've been listening to hip hop since eighty two, eighty three, almost since its inception. You're talking about like the legendary Grandmaster Cast from the Cold Crush Brothers. My biggest influence, I would say, is LL Cool J. My whole style. He had the most influence on my style of writing and creativity. BigMike Coyle: That's I could I haven't read your writings, but I'm going to now and I'm gonna look for that because I think L Del L L Cool J, he's a hell of a storyteller. And you know, he's got a lot of great bangers out there. But my my favorite L L Cool J song out there is and to me it seems like it's kind of a B side because you never really find it, but it's I remember seeing the video on Yo T V raps and the Antonne Jones: Mm-hmm. BigMike Coyle: video I don't know if you remember, but he's kind of stalking around like a Black Panther or something like that. Antonne Jones: Mm-hmm. BigMike Coyle: And dude, I just like that song and the lyrics of that, I'm a big Antonne Jones: Okay. BigMike Coyle: DJ and Jeff is one of those influences that as I was growing up learning how to DJ, I wish I could emulate him. His he is such a master on the turntables and Antonne Jones: Yes. BigMike Coyle: the way he transitions and turntables and the equipment he uses. And, you know, people don't understand. And I had to explain this one time to someone that turntablism and and being a turntablist is just as much of a musician as, say, a pianist or a guitarist or something, because You're learning to take different sounds and blend them and and come up with new sounds and and create new sounds. you coming from Philly back in those days, man, that that's really exciting to me as a as a hip hop music old school nerd, you know. Antonne Jones: So two things. that album is interesting because that was on Walking with the Panther album. BigMike Coyle: Yes. Yes. Antonne Jones: And that so there's a big story. I'm not gonna go too much, that's a whole nother talk show. But that BigMike Coyle: Yeah. Antonne Jones: alb he had he received he got so much flack from that album. BigMike Coyle: I remember that. Antonne Jones: The reason why he got flack was because at the time hip hop was transitioning from To Black Medallions, you know, the pro-black movement and no gold chains. And with that album, he was following up on what he did from his second album, I'm Bad with the Gold, The Champagne, and all that other stuff. So he got a lot of flack from that album. But that's a solid album. That was a very, very good album. Very good album. A lot of good hits on there. BigMike Coyle: Yeah. Antonne Jones: So so here's the thing about that too. When you look at that album, a lot of people don't realize he was the the influence that he had. on the hip hop culture was more than anybody else. Because before him, there was nobody rapping with their shirt off. Nobody was rapping with gold chains and talking about champagne. So the stuff that you see Puffy and everybody's doing now, he started that on that album. BigMike Coyle: Right. Antonne Jones: his musical influence, his wordplay, because if you think about some of his the original Rock the Bells, is probably one of the most intelligent records I've ever heard. I've never heard him do it in person except once. But those albums are w were influential for us. For us, because that was our education, part of our education system also. There's a lot of stuff that we I didn't know about Donald Goines. I didn't learn about Donald Goyne's the the the writer. In school. I didn't know about a lot of things. So we were learning also. It was a learning tool. Hip-hop was a learning tool for us, for a lot of us. BigMike Coyle: Well, being of that generation and and in that culture at that time, I'm sure that's also through the the the music of public enemy, learning about black culture and and the black civil rights and those early black leaders like Malcolm and Dr. King and stuff like that, that I I feel like were kind of whitewashed for a while, but they got their voice back. And to me, as a white kid growing up in in American suburbia, that's where I learned about the message of the powerful messages of Malcolm X and who he was and the Black Panthers and what they stood for. And you know, I I would go to school and I would hear about how Black Panthers were this terrorist organization. And then I would learn about everything they were doing to try to protect the black community, not only from law enforcement that was very racist at that time. I, you know, we can't deny that, especially in some of these major cities. but also from within itself, those predatory systems that were coming in within the black community, trying to take advantage of them as well. And and I just Being someone that just loves learning history and his cultural history, I found all that so fascinating, you know, and one of my favorite songs, and I think it's the the greatest diss track ever, comes from Public Enemy. and you know, they are just a phenomenal presence in the culture. Antonne Jones: You know what's interesting? You know what's funny about that? If you go to a public enemy concert, it's majority white people there. Yeah, BigMike Coyle: I'm one hundred percent. One hundred percent. Antonne Jones: y you know, it it was BigMike Coyle: I'll tell you this. You listen you you wanna know who knows every word to the song Fuck the Police? Police Antonne Jones: Who's that? BigMike Coyle: officers. We jam out to that all the time. Antonne Jones: Man, I you know, but the thing was at that time, right, as we were growing up, the key word was balance. You know, you had NWA, but you had public enemy. You had the a balance. And here's the other part about that is this. I grew up like I said, I went to Kafka school all of my life, right? So ninety seven percent of the students at my school, my s classmates were white. We didn't have black history. I didn't know anything about this stuff. I mean, we once a year We would talk about Martin Luther King and slavery. Everybody would turn around, look at me, say they're sorry. And then after that, that was it. but I learned through the message of music. BigMike Coyle: Music music is a great uniter, man. I say it all the time. You can't it doesn't matter what lot walk of life you come from, you go to a concert and you are going to find someone to connect with. And they could be come from a totally different socio and socioeconomic and different cultures, but you're there enjoying that music and and for those two hours, you are there in this moment together and and that's what's important. And I think music is the great connector that could save the world from a lot of the anger and and hatred and and ugliness that we see is if we just could find unity through music. I did not know this story until Lex Street Massacre and and the things that we can learn from it going forward. do you mind giving us a little background on on what happened and how you found this story and found the importance of the story being shared. Antonne Jones: Okay. So the story is this. it was in December of two thousand in West Philadelphia. Four guys had burst into a drug house and shot ten people. Seven of died. The city was in a complete uproar. I lived in the city at the time. No one has ever seen or heard anything like that ever in the city, ever. So it was made national, not just local news, it made national news. It was huge. And people were scared because there were no one got arrested right away. So two weeks later, the detectives, police department, they made an announcement that they made an arrest of four guys and they were seeking the death penalty. So as the case was going on, as they were going back and forth to court. We would read, obviously it was being carried by all the local newspapers, I would read stories about it. And as it went on, the stories became became more conflicting. Because first they were saying, you know, we definitely had the right people, and then there was some kind of doubt that they had the right people. So as that went on, I was following this story for a while up until that point. But after a certain period of time, the story seemed like it disappeared. I don't know what happened to it, it just disappeared. And then sometime later, maybe like around sometime around there, I bumped into a friend of mine from the radio station. He's been a radio host, and he was telling me that he's friends with one of the guys who was arrested for the Lex Street killings. So I say and he wants to do his story. Now I said, well, I thought those guys were arrested, thought they were in jail. Long story, you know He told me anytime no, those first four guys were the wrong guys. Eventually they they got let go. They never even made it to trial. They let those four guys go and they rearrested four other guys and those guys were sentenced. So he wanted to introduce me to one of the guys who was falsely accused. And I said, sure, absolutely. Because he knew me from writing my other books and stuff like that. So he wanted me to possibly do a book or a documentary on this gentleman. His name is Sakan Yuck. And when I met him, we sat down and he began telling me the story. And that's where it began at for me, as far as putting together a project. BigMike Coyle: So You know, this happened in two thousand and in eighty five, Philadelphia had the the firebombing at the move headquarters that I think a bunch of neighboring buildings came down with that, right? With the BLA Antonne Jones: On Osage Avenue, yes. BigMike Coyle: Osage Avenue. We were young at that time, being the same age, but was the outrage at the Lex Street killing the same kind of outrage that was on Osage? Or was it a different kind of outrage going on at that one? Antonne Jones: I think it was a different type of outrage. And I think primarily because with the Osage bombing, the move bombing is called they know who did it. They know who dropped the bomb. It was the mayor. So th we BigMike Coyle: Right. Antonne Jones: there there was an understand of who were the perpetrators or whoever you want to how you want to look at it. With this murder case. It was different because no one knew who did it. And it was such a small neighborhood. That that area of West Philly is called the Mill Creek section. It's a s close-knit community. And no one has ever seen other than the move situation, no one has ever heard of no 10 people getting shot, seven people getting killed at one time. So that out it was more, I think with the move incident, people were more angry. This one I think people were more scared. BigMike Coyle: So it's it's kinda like I was in Southern California when the Night Stalker was around and nobody knew who he was or where he was. So it's kinda like that. There's that fear of who's who did this and are they gonna come into my house next? It's that kind of fear that was out there. Was there a feeling Antonne Jones: A hundred percent. BigMike Coyle: that was there a feeling that because this was in a a trap house and these guys were all in the drug game that like The cops don't care about what happened here. Antonne Jones: I think this I think this one's a little different. I think because it was so much outrage and it didn't make just national headlines, it was international headlines. I think that kind of forced the police department, the district attorney's office to give a little bit more attention than they would usually do under circumstances. BigMike Coyle: So why did they why did they round up the initial four? What what did they have that led them to those initial four suspects? Antonne Jones: Well, according to the detectives, one of the gentlemen signed a confession and implicated three other men. BigMike Coyle: what did you learn in your your studies on that? Antonne Jones: What I learned was that that confession was coerced. And those three gentlemen that were co-defendants with him had nothing to do with the case at all. And I I so another part to this case, it touched home. So the more I got into this story, the more I realized how close to home it was for me. And I tell you how this worked. One of the lawyers for the gentleman who signed a confession. His name was Charles P. Marocke the third. Very powerful, low key but powerful criminal attorney from Philadelphia. Actually from South Philly, from my part of town as well. He was the lawyer for Jamel Lewis, the guy gentleman who signed the c confession. But Charlie, I met Charlie years prior to that, because Charlie was my attorney for a case that I had years ago. So that came full circle. And I talked to him, CP we call him. I said, Listen, I'm working on his Lex Street massacre case. I saw that you were working on there. And he said, Anton, listen, he gave me a whole Phillies bag. It was a Phillies bag full of documents. He said, Take whatever you want. Here's all the information I have, and go ahead and do your research. And he sub he gave me that type of support and just gave me everything. So that part of it, touch home. Because I again he was my attorney. But he wasn't just my attorney. Me and Charlie CP actually became friends also. he passed away a couple of years ago. But Charlie was such a good guy. He was a very good guy, very nice wife, nice family. And when he gave me that bag of information, I probably wouldn't have been able to put together the project without what he gave me. Because a lot of the stuff was documents that most people didn't have that wasn't available to the public. So I learned more about the case itself from lot of those documents and doing a lot of research and speaking with different individuals that was a part of the case. BigMike Coyle: So what what kind of stuff did you find out? and one of the things that I found very interesting, and this is how naive I think society can be, if if I can just be blunt about it. It's a trap house. it's drugs. So they just we put it that and we're like, Well, this is a drug related thing, we sweep it on the rug. But that wasn't what caused this shooting. That wasn't the story, was it? Antonne Jones: It had nothing to do with drugs. And that was confirmed during my visit to Green Prison. I met with one of the gentlemen who did most of the killing. His name was Shaheen Black. the story was actually around pretty much around him and another guy who was killed in the house named George Porter. So I went up to the prison and I interviewed him. And I sat with him probably about three or four hours. And that was a very interesting interview. But one of the things he did confirm was that the murders didn't have anything to do with drugs. None not at all. He said it was about disrespect. That's what he said it's about disrespect. BigMike Coyle: So it didn't even have to do with the car really. It had to do with disrespect. Antonne Jones: The car was a catalyst, but how BigMike Coyle: The car was the catalyst. I Antonne Jones: I agree with you a hundred percent. a lot of t as you mentioned, the respect especially in the inner city, means everything. It sometimes it it means more than money. Your re your reputation, especially if you're into the streets, your reputation is everything. And a lot of times people act on emotion without thinking. You know, y y you make decisions without thinking, hey, what are the what will be the consequences or what could be the consequences of these actions. And unfortunately it happens more than enough times in the city. BigMike Coyle: So what did your conversation with Mr. Black how was that like? How does he look back on that situation? Antonne Jones: Our relax was very interesting. And I'll tell you why. Before I went in, I was bracing myself to meet a really violent, unpredictable person. And I'll tell you what I did. You know, the warden told me I can bring anything. I had to remember the interview because I couldn't bring anything in with me because that was against the prison rules. However, BigMike Coyle: Right. Antonne Jones: however, I snuck a pencil in with me. And the reason I snuck a pencil in is because I didn't know how this guy was going to react. And there was nothing, nothing separating us. There was no bars, there was no partition, anything separate him and I. I sat here and he sat right there. So I'm writing a book. The book was already out. about his crime and I didn't know how he was going to take it. So when I sat there with him, I was just waiting the whole time for him to make a sudden move or something along those lines. Because again, when you have someone who's convicted of killing seven people, shooting ten, and that wasn't his first shootings, you know, those people don't a lot times they don't have nothing to lose. They don't have anything to lose at all. So there's very unpredictable. BigMike Coyle: Yeah. He's I think he's got a life in prison, so yeah, he's he's got nothing to lose. Antonne Jones: You got seven lives in prison. You gotta die and come back six more times. So BigMike Coyle: Yeah. Yeah. Antonne Jones: I again I went in thinking this guy's a monster, which he is. But I tell you what, something happened to me. After speaking with him, I actually felt sorry for him. I wasn't expecting that. He told me about his life growing up and how he was abused. It wasn't a sob story. shelter to shelter, foster home to foster home, how he was abused as a kid, how his first murder, the first murder that he saw was his mom boyfriend getting killed right in front of him. He said people used to pick on him all the time. And what happened is he fought back. And it just changed him in his personality and the type of person that he was. He was tired of being a victim. So they say hurt people hurt people. And that's what actually happened to him. Now I don't feel sorry for him because of the things that he've done. I thought about like his upbringing and what he dealt with and how it affected him and his choices affected all these other people. It was just a really sad situation. certain parts of this case touched home. Come to find out, it's two things. His mother and my mom's younger sister, my aunt Tammy, were very good friends. I didn't know that. I didn't know his mom, Angie, and my mom's sister Tammy were very good friends. so as our conversation went on, it was back and forth. And then when I asked him about the murders, his demeanor changed. His attitude changed. He became a whole different person. Not violent towards me, but you could see that there was an aggression about him and something about him that just kind of like basically turned him on. So that's kind of how that conversation and interview with him went. And then at the end, he asked me something very interesting to do. He asked a favor of me. He asked me to arrange for his personal belongings to be because he felt as though they were gonna kill him in prison. Because remember, a lot those people that he killed or that he was part of killing. have a lot of family and friends. That was a big case. BigMike Coyle: Right. Antonne Jones: A lot of people. So he was in fear of his life because of that. BigMike Coyle: You bring up very interesting topics and and the kind of stuff that I think shows the values and the importance, of mentors, right? In our lives. You had that judge that said, Hey, you're not a bad person. You had your mom that every year reminded you, if you don't get it together, you will not see your next birthday. But here we have a young man who grew up in the worst the system can provide, and he did not have those people in his life that could say to him Hey, let's take a step back. You gotta focus on something else. And also to say to him, like, yeah, that dude disrespected you. But look at who that dude is. You know what I'm saying? And and I think that shows the importance, especially in such torn apart communities where Those things aren't valued. Before the show, we were talking about how, you know, my experience doing missionary missionary work in Cleveland and Toledo, Ohio, and Akron, Ohio, it taught me that there comes a point where kids at a certain age, while they're turning like from 10 to 14, I'll say, they see one of three paths. They're gonna go be a famous rap artist, hip hop artist, they're gonna go be a famous athlete. Or they're stuck in the system and they don't see other paths to them. They don't have those people in their lives. And and you mentioned that, you know, you kind of feel that that's kind of the same way laid out for them. just tell me your thoughts on all of that. Antonne Jones: Those are the primary three avenues and professions that a lot of kids in inner city see. Rappers, basketball players, or else they'll be in the system. But I think it is important that mentors and those in the community, especially the men. Men in the community are are are very important. Growing up, I had a lot of If it wasn't my dad, it was my grandpa, it was uncles, it was neighborhood guys, we had positive male role models. You know, and and that's what needs to be done now. a better job could be done, especially with the males and role models in the inner cities, and say, hey, listen, you know what? You may you don't have to be a basketball, you could be a welder. You know, take get a trade. As a matter of fact, if you look into it now, there's more jobs than tradesmen to fill them. So get a trade. It's okay to be a welder. It's okay to be an electrician, a carpenter. Everybody's not gonna be a famous rapper or basketball player. consider other paths. Be a writer, be a photographer. There's so many other things that I think It's important that as mentors that we share these those type of opportunities and endeavors with them. Tell them, hey, look, it's more than than this. And I think that's is incumbent upon us as a community, as men, this this to share that information, to tell them that. You know, it's one thing to holler and talk to people and put them down and different things like that. Well, that's really not, I don't think that's effective. But just giving people telling especially the younger ones, giving them options, really viable options. BigMike Coyle: And think it's also important to say, hey, dude, you do spit pretty good lyrics. Hey, dude, you are good on the hoop. Look, I will say 100%, some of the best basketball I've ever seen played, and I'm not a basketball player, was on city courts with pickup games and guys in the neighborhood. when I was in when I was in Akron and Toledo areas, I thought there, why aren't these guys in the NBA? Like I would just sit and watch this the street ball being played. You know, phenomenal players, phenomenal kids. it doesn't mean like you have to quit that. Keep that hobby, keep that passion. You know, keep your hobby of DJing or or writing lyrics and stuff like that, because that's a positive outlet for you. But also train and also. What you see me do, you can also do. And and that that goes across all cultures, in my own path as I've gotten to this spot where I've raised my family, I'm a coach now, I coach football, I work with young men that don't have a positive role model in their lives. And I it's like, you see where I'm at in life? You can do this too. You can be this yourself. This is the goal to achieve. Antonne Jones: I I agree. but w one other very key, very important component that's that we have to make sure is mentioned is education. What I'm seeing a lot of is a lot of kids not in inner city not going to school. I know in Philadelphia I think the the attendance rate in one school was like thirty percent. One school couldn't even have graduation because there was Or enough people to play varsity football. You know, because education is always key. I I think no matter what you do, you have to go to school. And I what I'm seeing too, Mike, is that a lot of kids don't go to school. And when you don't have an education, at least that basic education, there's a sense of helplessness. Hopelessness, I should say. it's hard to get a job if you can't read or write, and if you don't have a diploma. So no matter if you want to be a DJ, you want to be a basketball player, whatever you want to do, go to school. Get your education and figure out a way. If you want to go to college, you know, figure it out. I mean, there's grants, there's all kinds of work programs, figure it out. the same type of energy that you put into doing something bad, put that same energy, if not more, into doing something positive for yourself. Because the real street legends, the real legends of the street are the ones who survive. The ones who didn't fall into the trap of the system. And that's something that's important because a lot of times there's a glamorization. If you listen to the entertainment, the music, it's a glamorization of the drug dealers, the ones who went to jail. So if you constantly pound that in kids' head over and over and over again, they think it's cool. And in reality, it's really not. I I I think a much more emphasis need to be made on education. Go to school. You have to go to school. that's non negotiable. If you don't have a basic education, you really don't have anything. Especially in this world that we live in. And then the other part is I think is very important is to consider getting a treat. If that's your thing. Try that. BigMike Coyle: I All those I agree with and especially so I believe we all have certain skills that we're good at. Yours, you you you found yours in writing that y that's a skill you're good at. Sharing a message, telling a story. Me I I realized I'm really good at talking to people and working with people. And so I gravitated towards law enforcement because it was that it magnified that skill and that ability of mine to just sit and talk to people and listen, which gravitated towards this side of what I do now because I just want to talk to people. I want to hear their stories. I want to hear why things happen in their lives and who helped them through those. Because I think it's important to recognize those people. Who help us through these difficult spots and these difficult times. I I love that you started out shout just shouting out that that judge and also your your defense attorney that built that relationship with you, that helped you get outside of the system, and saw the value you had. And your your attorney, I think you said he goes by CP, him seeing the value of you telling this story. that I think needs to be told because there's a lot of different stories, things we can learn from this story. Tell me what you feel like we can learn from this story as outsiders looking in. Antonne Jones: One of the big things about this story that really took me by typically when you see here are cases like this, a lot of them have racial undertones. BigMike Coyle: Mm-hmm. Antonne Jones: This case right here, to me, in my opinion, didn't. It was more about classism and how it was handled. And the reason I say that is because the lead prosecutor of that first case was a black man. The mayor was a black man. One of the detectives were black. The judge was black in the first case was black. So it wasn't I didn't think it had that racial undertone. I think it was more about classism and how it was handled because of the class of the first four guys and their families were at the time. Now, if this happened just say ten miles down the road in Lower Marion, Lower Marion. it'd probably have been a whole different situation way it was handled. But I think because it was a poorer community, that's why it was handled that way. And it was kinda surprising. a lot of times, cases like these, do have racial overtones. BigMike Coyle: how long were those initial four locked up before they were Antonne Jones: Eighteen months. BigMike Coyle: f that's what I thought it was, eighteen months. Antonne Jones: They were in it for eighteen months. They were in jail for eighteen months facing the death penalty. Like that was this was a a hundred percent death penalty case. The Roger King, who was the district attorney, he was adamant about seeking the death penalty for those first four guys. And the irony of that is the guys who were convicted didn't get the death penalty. BigMike Coyle: penalty. But Let's talk about that class aspect because I think that I think class plays a huge part in the amount and the type of justice people get. As you watch this play out, as you went back and studied this. is this something you realized before or is it something you didn't realize till afterwards? How that class difference was playing out for these four young men. Antonne Jones: One thing I learned, I didn't realize how many people were actually in jail that didn't belong there. I was on both sides of the track. So, you know, everybody is innocent. Nobody did anything. They put this on me, they blame this on me. And you hear that. I was conditioned to BigMike Coyle: That that goes to that lack of accountability. Antonne Jones: a hundred percent. so you hear that. As I was working on this case and researching the case, I should say, I started doing other research on other cases. In Philadelphia, just in Philly, but other cases of these people, these men and women who were arrested for crimes and confess signed confessions I was shocked. And to this day I'm still wondering how they got a confession from a guy who wasn't there. I mean he had a full confession of things that happened, but he wasn't there. And the other part of that, during those 18 months of those guys facing they were in jail, it was another gentleman, Shaheen Black, the one I interviewed. He confessed to the killings also. That's the other part about it. He confessed to those killings maybe like a month or two later after these guys got arrested. And he gave them more detail, more inform detailed information about what went on in the house, but they let him go twice. And then essentially eventually they they rearrested him. But I'm just trying to figure out how did they create a confession from a person who wasn't there? And then Once we found out that wasn't a confession, it was a coerced confession, where was the accountability? What happened to those detectives or that put that together? Now, my challenge with doing this project was for me to remain neutral. I didn't want to sway this way and I don't want to sway that way. As a journalist and as a writer, I I committed myself to neutrality. So I was fair. I interviewed Lawyers and we judges. The cops wouldn't do an interview with me. As a matter of fact, I had an interview lined up for twelve o'clock, just say twelve o'clock. I get a call at eleven thirty, cancel. Because I wanted to get their perspective, their understanding. I write from a neutral standpoint. And I d there was still a lot of questions that needs that should be answered and that hasn't been answered. But from what I've learned, I just learned that, hey, listen, you know, sometimes it it is color, but it's really about the money. You know, if you can afford better attorneys, if you have you know, better representation or you can afford better BigMike Coyle: There's The representation, when you're getting a public defender, you're kind of playing public defender lottery, you know, who you're gonna get. You don't get to pick it. And the amount of fight they're gonna do for you. Now it looked like CP, I don't know if he was a public defender or or a a paid attorney that the family could afford. He he wanted to provide the best for his defendant. And he gave you all the notes be saying like, I know this guy's not guilty. And that's important. Sometimes you're going into those cases knowing knowing they're not guilty and you want to make sure they can get off, or you just want to make sure the system's fair for them. And and you know, I've seen that with public defenders. they won't say it in open court, obviously. They're like, I know my client's not guilty. Or my I know my client is guilty, but he deserves representation that The system is going to work for him. And he deserves to know the system is going to work for work for him. Because the state and the the prosecutors, they've got a whole army behind them where some of these kids, and I think this is might be in this situation with those those four, they've got only one person there fighting for them. Because they're in a system that I think their families aren't around. Their families are probably like, Yeah, he probably did it. Who knows? You know. But they're not there fighting for And I think that's something we all need is someone to fight for us and and be that voice for us. Antonne Jones: it was a very influential reporter by the name of Teresa Conroy, who wrote for Philadelphia Daily News. And she really went the bat for those guys. They she believed that they got wrong. They got it wrong. And what she would do is she would publish information that she would get from family. friends or her other sources and publish it in the daily news. And it I believe is because of her work and her publishing of this information, it kind of forced the district attorney to publicly re examine her case. Her name is Teresa Conroy. She was very influential in these young men getting off. And I was fortunate enough to become a friend of hers. I interviewed her and her and I are still in contact. You know, when you talk about those one two people in your corner, it was fortunate for these guys. They had c quite a few people in their corner and Teresa Conroy was one of them. I mentioned her name because she faced different death threats, but she really went the bat for And I think because of her, or partly because of her, you know, they were p forced to publicly re examine the case. just to show the dynamics of this case, she was a white woman. when we talk about that racism thing, you know, I don't deny that it exists. But in this particular case, it just seemed like people just rallied together for these gentlemen. Black, BigMike Coyle: we talked about how this case was very polarizing in the community. When they arrested the initial four, was there a sense of relief? Like, okay, they got them. And then but once all the evidence started coming out, they're like, hey, you guys are getting this wrong. And did the community come up and like, hey, you're not doing your job right? Antonne Jones: From my i it was all of the above. Because the first four guys were adamant that they didn't do it. Their families were adamant that they didn't do it. I interviewed Sakan Yukes, one of the falsely accused guys. I interviewed his mother and she was said, my I had an alibi. He had an alibi, he was washing close. And then people in the community, you know, they would start whispering. Again, it's a tight knit community up there. So there was always BigMike Coyle: Right. Antonne Jones: whispers that they had the wrong people. But I don't think there was a sense of relief from anyone at that time. Because if these four guys were innocent, that mean there were still people out who were killed trying to kill ten people. So it was a it was a lot of uneasiness in that community for a long time. And you know what? There's still uneasiness in that community because some of the the the the victims families still believe that those first four guys had something to do with it. BigMike Coyle: Really? Antonne Jones: Really. BigMike Coyle: So I know you talked to the first the the one suspect from the initial four. Did did you get a chance to interview the other three? Antonne Jones: No, I just interviewed one. The other three I couldn't find the other two of and the other one didn't wanna interview. But not on record. I did talk to him off record. BigMike Coyle: but That's an interesting thing is you talk about it was a close knit community. And I know from my background and you know this too, there are those that as soon as those kids got swooped up said these aren't the right guys and they knew who they were, but there was no way they were going to tell who it was. And and do you think that's one of those things that we need to also flush out of some of our communities is like, hey, you've got to be willing to talk. But also it's on the cops too to build that relationship to where talking to us, we're just trying to serve the community if you talk to us and we're not trying to get you involved. Antonne Jones: it needs to be a joint collaboration between the police and the community. the community needs to feel that they can trust the police. They can trust them. some of the things that you hear like about snitching and reporting certain crimes, you know, these people will still have to go back to those communities to live. BigMike Coyle: Yeah. Antonne Jones: I think a lot of times and a lot of times people do wanna talk. But most people in these communities are good people. These are hard working people, they're non criminals, and there's just their criminal element that's just took over their community and they don't wanna live like that anymore. But they're stuck in between a rock and a hard place because if they say something, something can happen to them. But and BigMike Coyle: now you have wolves that don't care about protecting the old community. They just care about victimizing those communities. So you've written this great book about the Lux Street murders. you went and you published this as a a 10 part docuseries So you are working on a on a movie about about this? Antonne Jones: Absolutely. the script is done. Very w very good. I've been in high level talks with some movie executives. Well, one in particular, and they're very interested. one of his partners is a very big Philadelphia guy, movie guy. he knows about the story and knows about me a we dot the I's and cross the T's, then there'll be an announcement meet. BigMike Coyle: Mr. Black, the way you talk about him, how like as he was talking his telling his story about who he was and where he came from, he had one demeanor. Then when it came to the actual crime, his whole demeanor changed. And then the way he justifies it as, Well, they're all drug addicts, so it doesn't matter. What Antonne Jones: Thank you. BigMike Coyle: after everything you gathered, after everything you learned Putting this story together, when you sit back, what do you want people to gain from it? Antonne Jones: I want people to gain that despite challenges, there is a way that you can still succeed. And despite so much bad that we see around us, there's a lot of good in the world as well. There's a lot of good people. And I think it's important that we see people as people. We don't see them as color. We don't see them because of, you know, their finances or what they lack or what they do have or what they don't have. But just see there's a lot of good in the world. and to see with this story, this story t touched humans touched human emotions. And seeing people come together in the interest of good. It really reinforced to me that there's a lot of good people and people that mean well and that help others. So when other people look at this story, you know, even though it's a tragic story, seven ten people lives were affected, seven were killed and countless other family members and friends, let's take the positive out of it. Let's look at the Charlie Marocis, let's look at the Tariq Shabazzes, let's look at Judge Smiths, let's look at those people who really fought f for the good of people and these guys and the people around them that, you know, helped them out. BigMike Coyle: How did this story affect you? Antonne Jones: because I was one of those people that could been in their house. You know, it it made me think about the choices that I made. I think about the heartache that I caused my family. And the other part about it too is that when I wrote the book, when I did the documentary, I didn't I made it a point not to re victimize the victims. I wanted to humanize them. Because like you mentioned, those people are those are people. No matter what their circumstances were, the choices they made in life, their aunt their uncles, their aunts, their mothers, their kids, their parents, you know, all those they're all people. And I just for me, I just wanna just play a small part. And bringing this story to life so these people are not forgotten. And when I say the people not forgotten, the victims, but also the people who actually fought and put their lives on the line and gave up their time and the time with their families, like these lawyers invested a lot of time. And I think that this story is a part of Philadelphia history. it's is a part of history that we can learn from. And I I'm very honored. And I feel privileged to be able to be a part of this story and be able to articulate the story and share it. But more importantly, share it from a neutral standpoint. You know, as a writer, I have the ability to sway. You do. But I just recorded the facts as they were re record as they were given to me and share it with the map with people and let them come up with their own conclusions, their ideas. But I wanted to have that provide a platform for those people to be remembered and have voices. BigMike Coyle: So now you've told the story, it's part of who you are. As you go into the community and as you're mentoring and sharing with kids, what message do you want them to get out of the the story? Antonne Jones: Make good decisions. Make good decisions. Think about the consequences of your actions. don't look for short-term success. Think long-term. Think about tomorrow. Focus on education. Think about family. Think about other people's families. And also be accountable. You know, accountability i is a very important word. It's important to our growth. continue to show love. You know, that's the greatest thing we could do is love one another and show love. You know, it's okay, you know, someone disrespect you. You know, it doesn't feel good, you know, it's not a good feeling. But hey, you know what? Live to see another day. Respect BigMike Coyle: Yeah. Antonne Jones: the police. Respect the police. I just want to make sure that's mentioned, is that I come from a family of law enforcement. And I have a lot of friends actually I went to school with that became cops, captains and things like that. And they have a very, very thankless job, very dangerous job. And I think that it's important that we respect them and you know and and appreciate them BigMike Coyle: Sure. Anton, man, this was an amazing conversation. Thank you so much for being here with us. Thanks for sharing this story and the lessons that you learned from the story, the ripple effect of this story. I like to tell my audience you have the ability to be a ripple for good or for bad. So I appreciate everything you shared with us today. Powerful story, powerful message. Everybody check out his book. his documentary, vertical form, vertical series. Antonne Jones: Vertical series. Mm-hmm. BigMike Coyle: I'll have all the links to this in in here. be sure to check out. Anton and everything he's got going on. Anton, thank you for your time, thank you for joining us on the mentor sessions today.