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Lisa Wilkes | The Christian Reeve Podcast #223 · The Christian Reeve Podcast

• 0:00
  Hello and welcome to another episode of the Christian Reef
• 0:03
  Podcast. Today's guest is an author and
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  animal rescuer by the name of Lisa Wilkes.
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  Welcome to the show how you do it.
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  Hi, I'm good to be. I'm glad to be here.
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  And thank you so much for hosting me.
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  I am sorry that I have a purring cat in my arms right now, but
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  these are my emotional support animals.
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  And honestly, there's not a single space in this home that
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  doesn't have a rescue animal, so it was just gonna happen.
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  How many animals do you have right now, like in your house?
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  At the moment we have 5:00. So we have our three permanent
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  babies, a dog and two cats. And then I have these two foster
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  cats that were fostered because their dad passed and they were
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  on their way to a really highkill shelter here in Florida
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  and I just did not want that to happen.
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  And then as of 24 hours ago, we had a six.
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  We had a little kitten but. I fly animals around the country
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  on my airlines animal rescue team and so I did transport him
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  last night. So he went up to New York City
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  and met his new adopter. But we had six.
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  We have, we have 5 now. Awesome, man.
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  How did you get into this? I'm, I'm intrigued because
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  obviously you mentioned the airline stuff.
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  We'll get into that in a little bit, but I'm just intrigued
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  because, like, it's one thing to, you know?
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  Get pets from shelters and stuff.
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  Obviously in the UK, we encourage that a lot.
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  We're like, yeah, you know, make sure you foster, foster, foster.
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  It's one of the best things you can do.
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  But what you're doing is more of like an operation.
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  It's like now I'm going to, like save many at once.
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  And it sounds like what you're saying is that, like, where you
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  live, you're kind of taking on, you know, pets for a certain
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  amount of time, then they move on to their permanent home or
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  whatever. So, yeah, talk to us about how
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  you got into this and you know, why you're so passionate about
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  it. Absolutely.
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  So I think just as a natural empath, I I've always had this
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  like frequency that connects with animals.
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  My first memory of saving an animal is when I was about six
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  years old, I saved the Bunny that was injured, but my mom
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  says that it traces back before that.
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  I just don't really recall those memories.
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  But yeah, I just always had this passion for animals.
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  I think I'm really in tune with like suffering in general and
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  so. It's hard for me to sense that.
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  And I I have to act. I have to do something.
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  So I was rescuing animals growing up.
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  My first book, which was terrible, it was like 70 pages
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  handwritten in a journal when I was 8 years old, was about a
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  rescue cat, unsurprisingly. And I just continually, you
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  know, volunteered at animal shelters, things like that.
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  But once I became an adult, I graduated from college and
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  started at the airline. I knew it wasn't the right time
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  for me to necessarily. Adopt my own pet because I was
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  traveling so much, but I got older, went to grad school.
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  I still fly, but I don't fly quite as many hours as I used
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  to. So I was like, okay.
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  This is the perfect time. So I have my permanent babies,
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  and then I was living in Texas at the time.
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  I just moved to Florida last year and I realized I was doing
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  some work with like a local rescue just here and there, and
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  I realized how many animals they kill.
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  And I don't know if it's the same in the UKI know in the US
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  it is absolutely horrific. It sickens me and I'm going to
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  fight like hell to change it. Every single animal that I
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  possibly can, I'm going to fight to change it because I don't
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  think it should be allowed. Texas and Florida are the two
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  highest kill state kill states here in the US and I have been
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  to the euthanasia room. All these healthy animals just.
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  Rows and rows of cages. And they don't have space for
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  them because people don't take care of their pets.
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  They don't spay and neuter them. They think they're disposable.
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  They just dump them random places and they become strays.
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  And these innocent animals that just need love and just need a
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  place to stay, they're euthanized here at our shelter
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  here in Tampa. It's Thursday at about like 2:30
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  PM. And I have gone to that kill
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  room because I've had to like rescue.
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  I partner with a lot of local rescues here and I've gone to
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  that kill room to take like a dog or a couple cats.
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  And it it, it has broken me. It has like just seeing the
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  walls of all these animals and knowing that, like, people did
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  not take care of them. They did not do their duty as
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  like a pet owner. And it breaks my heart.
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  So I'm going to fight like hell to change it, but.
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  Animal transport team at the airline, It's really awesome.
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  It started in 2017 and I found out about it in 2019 and
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  instantly was like, OK, this is my jam doing this, sign me up
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  and I'm on the leadership board this year, so I officially
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  became a leader in January. But it's awesome because we have
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  free flights, so we're airline employees, we fly for free on
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  our own airline and we fly for free on other carriers with like
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  an open seat. So anyway.
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  Since we have these flight benefits, there was a woman, Her
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  name is Elaine. She's amazing.
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  She's one of my close friends. But she decided like, why don't
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  we use this for something really good?
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  There are so many animals in certain states in the US that
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  are subject to euthanasia. And then there are other states,
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  like primarily I fly a lot of animals to New York,
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  Massachusetts, California. Colorado is a no kill, no kill
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  state. Illinois is pretty good.
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  They don't, they don't euthanize very many animals.
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  So why don't we like? Use this benefit that we have,
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  we already fly for free and we can escort a pet in the pet
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  carrier because they have to go with the human to ride on the
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  airplane so we can escort them up to their forever home.
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  It's just volunteering our time. We're not paying anything
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  because we already fly for free and like that's a great way that
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  we could use our benefits. And so she set up this intricate
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  network. I mean, it is incredible.
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  There are hundreds of rescues that she partners with if the
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  animals get adopted. In a different state or really
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  far away or something like that. Then she just posts the need for
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  like this animal back story shows a picture where they're
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  flying to and we just volunteer based on like, OK, I'm off next
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  Tuesday, so let's look at the flight loads.
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  If there's open seats, like let's do it.
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  And I just did one yesterday up to New York.
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  And I will tell you that's probably somewhere around my
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  20th transport that I've done since 2019 since I joined.
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  And every time I tell myself I'm going to be an adult and I'm not
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  going to cry, and I've done this before and I'm not going to get
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  emotional. And then every time the doctor's
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  waiting there at baggage claim and I bring their little cat or
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  dog out and they're like, so excited to see this baby and so
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  grateful. And then I just fall.
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  So it's it's going to happen. I need to stop telling myself
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  that I can hold it together because I can't.
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  What would you say has been? Right.
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  Is there a particular time that was especially rewarding?
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  Like maybe you had to like face a lot of challenges and then you
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  finally pulled it off? Or something?
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  Like, can you share us a story about that?
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  Absolutely. So there was this one dog.
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  There was an organization when I lived in Texas that paired
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  animals with people that have the same disability.
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  So like if someone is. A limb, they'll pair them with
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  an animal that's missing a limb because it kind of helps.
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  It helps both of them really. But for the humans, it's this
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  sense of camaraderie and this sense of just like just really
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  intense connection with an animal that has the same
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  condition. And so they paired this dog that
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  had there was some I I actually honestly don't know what it is,
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  but it was some jaw issue and they paired it with a woman who
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  was up in Massachusetts and had the same condition.
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  And seeing her face because I brought the dog there and it was
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  so cute. I mean it was just the sweetest
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  little little pup like didn't make much of a fuss on the
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  airplane or anything. So cute.
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  I'm just reaching in to pet him and when I brought it up there
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  she I knew I was going to ball my eyes up but she starts like
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  crying and she was just hugging me and just like asking how she
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  could repay me and I'm like, no, this is rewarding enough.
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  Like we're good. We are we are great and.
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  I will never forget that experience She had brought me
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  this. Like we we don't typically
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  accept gifts, but if it means a lot to the person, then you
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  know, obviously we're going to take it.
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  And I love it. But she had bought me this
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  bracelet that had three little paw prints because I guess she
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  had gone on Facebook. She knew I was the transporter
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  and she had seen like my three babies, my three, my 2 cat, 2
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  cats and a dog. And so she got that bracelet
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  made just for me because she knew it would be something
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  special and I was like. And this is the most rewarding
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  volunteer activity in the whole world.
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  And like seeing her updates, the dog is like flourishing.
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  It's his first time seeing snow, cuz they're in Massachusetts.
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  I mean it just it it doesn't get any better than that.
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  Wonderful, wonderful thing that you do.
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  And I can only imagine like how rewarding it is.
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  Like I love animals, myself and like I just it kind of blows my
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  mind that there's not more infrastructure available to kind
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  of prevent. Animals from being, you know,
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  being euthanized. Like, you know what I mean?
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  It sucks. There is, though I will tell you
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  I believe there is. I believe it comes down to
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  money. We have states that are no kill.
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  Colorado's entirely no kill. And I think our resources, where
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  they are allocated speaks to what we value as a society.
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  And here in Florida and in Texas as well, I do not believe.
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  For all that they claim, all that's happened in the past few
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  years, I believe they don't care at all about life.
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  Because if they did, this is entirely preventable.
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  And there are places that have proven that.
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  But you have to allocate the funds, You have to have the
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  resources. You have to make a commitment as
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  a society to fix the issue. And instead what they do is
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  allocate more resources toward exclusive and hateful tactics
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  that gain politicians more power.
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  So I'm going to keep fighting here on the ground.
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  I'm going to keep. You know, trying to educate
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  people and trying to do my best. Every rescue flight that I have
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  like yesterday, I never intend. I don't set out to make it a
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  platform. Like, I'm not waking up in the
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  morning, like, what soapbox can I stand on today?
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  But people notice, like, I was in line yesterday to board with
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  this cat. People are asking, oh, what's
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  that animal? What's your baby?
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  Is it a dog? Is it a cat?
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  And I'm like, oh, it's a little kitten, but he's not mine.
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  I'm bringing them up there because he got adopted in New
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  York. And I think people just aren't
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  aware. And so they're like, well, why
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  didn't he get adopted here in Florida?
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  And I'm like, trust me, I have been to the shelters here,
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  they're so full and I've been to the euthanasia room.
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  Unfortunately, they euthanize a lot of healthy animals.
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  And so we're volunteering our time.
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  We're employees here at the airline, and we're just
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  volunteering our time to get these animals adopted in a safe
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  place. And I think people's minds are
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  blown when they. Find that out because it's not
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  public knowledge unless you're actually involved in the
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  mission. Like, it's not like there are
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  billboards on the street screaming about all the animals
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  dying because guess what, animals don't have money, so
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  they're not out there like promoting this cause.
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  And I feel like if I can just be sort of like an educational
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  voice, if I can at least let people know that it's really
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  important to fix your animal and that.
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  I mean, people are going to go and they're going to get breeder
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  dogs if that's what they want to do.
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  But if given the choice and you could save a life, I think that
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  is probably the more compassionate choice.
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  And that is like my, that's where I would go.
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  That's how we got our dog. It's interesting.
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  I had a guest fairly recently actually.
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  Maybe. A few months back and he runs he
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  runs a company that essentially helps is kind of like an
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  intermediary between pet owners and and the estate and family
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  and everything like. So when the owner passes away
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  there's stuff in place to kind of allocate funds and stuff and
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  provide resources so that you know if if if nothing is
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  planned, for example if there's no like.
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  I don't know, let's say resources allocated or something
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  sorted out to make sure the pet you know is taken care of.
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  They kind of step in and and can help facilitate that and stuff.
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  And we spoke about a lot of the things that we're sort of
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  speaking about here as well. This idea that like there is
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  work being done but like not in certain areas.
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  And it's like it really depends where you go and what you're
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  doing. But I think with with what
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  you're doing it's it's yeah, I mean I've I've never heard of
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  like. Concept like this, like flying
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  animals across states or countries or whatever, that's
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  news to me as well. I think it's an idea a lot of
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  people will I think probably get behind, especially if you know,
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  if it's like a a charity type thing or if you set up like an
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  organization. You get people donating, you get
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  facilitating that you know on the wider scale so to speak, it
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  can become bigger and better and and it can, you know, begin to
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  address some of the things that we've mentioned earlier as well,
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  so. Yeah, I mean it's it's like keep
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  doing it, man. Keep, please, keep doing it.
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  Yeah, it's awesome. I have another one on Monday.
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  I'm flying all the way down to Fort Lauderdale so I can take a
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  cat up to like, the Boston area. So yeah.
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  And then all these times too, I think to myself like, because at
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  the airline we can pick up extra trips.
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  And I tutor graduate students too.
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  And I'm like, you know, I should be doing all these things.
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  And then I think to myself, like.
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  I don't know. I think there's so much value in
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  what we do. And I think that the time spent,
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  even though it's, you know, we're flying standby.
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  So sometimes I don't make the flight and then I have to wait
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  around in an airport for X amount of time like yesterday.
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  And so yeah, it is a very long day and there's a lot that goes
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  into it, but just kind of like the reward of knowing that one
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  animal at a time, like we are saving these critters.
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  And also like I have never done a transport ever.
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  That did not also affect so many humans.
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  It affects the adopter. It affects the rescue, all the
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  people that helped and made sure that these animals were safe.
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  It affects all the people that I meet in the gate area and on the
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  airplane and the flight descendants that I introduced
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  myself to. And I tell them I'm with the
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  animal rescue team and they're like, oh, we've heard of that.
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  That's so awesome that we do that, you know.
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  And then they sign up to join, like there are so many lives
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  that it touches. And so sometimes I'm.
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  A little bit guilty because I'm like I'm just volunteering all
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  this time. But then I'm like, you know
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  what? Like how could anyone ever
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  regret that? Like we're doing something so
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  powerful and impactful and we have.
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  I mean really all credit goes to Elaine.
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  I just joined this year on the leadership team.
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  But like we as a whole have worked so hard to make this
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  program so successful and we'll do upwards of.
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  Like several 1000 transports a year.
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  Just fully volunteer powered, you know?
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  And so when I feel guilty about not picking up an extra work
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  trip or not, like doing a tutoring session or something,
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  I'm like, you know what? Life's too short and we're
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  making the difference. Absolutely.
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  You obviously you mentioned in that that you've flown to other
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  countries for rescue missions. Can you tell us about any
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  particular experiences that stand out as far as like other
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  countries because? It's interesting, like obviously
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  flying state to state, that's one thing.
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  But other countries have like totally different ways dealing
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  with these things. That was just intrigued on that
• 15:38
  front well. You know what is also
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  interesting? I will tell you, I think I have
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  always just been drawn to animals, obviously domestic
• 15:46
  animals, but also I've rescued wild animals and brought them to
• 15:49
  sanctuaries if they're injured. So like birds and but culturally
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  some countries I truly believe based on like.
• 15:58
  Talking to people and when I'm visited, I really think that
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  they don't see animals as like living creatures.
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  Like they're not meant for any type of affection.
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  They're not. They don't have emotions in
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  those, in those individuals mind like they're no different than a
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  plant or like a rock or something because they're not
• 16:20
  treated with compassion. I guess they're just kind of
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  seen as like a commodity. Right.
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  And so it's really interesting because I think so much of it is
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  cultural and what we teach our children and sometimes it's
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  religious like base as well, but like what we teach our children,
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  they they believe it, they grow up to believe it and they see it
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  over and over again. So I think in other countries, a
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  lot of it kind of stems from maybe just kind of presenting
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  some information to people and not everyone's going to believe
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  that animals are meant. To enjoy lives that actually,
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  like, incite good feelings. Not everyone might necessarily
• 16:57
  believe that, but at least like showing that.
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  Maybe in countries where they don't believe in spaying or
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  neutering and they just let animals run free on the streets
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  and then they die of starvation or they get eaten.
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  Things like that. Maybe just kind of showing them
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  that. The streets can be cleaner or
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  that there can be less money that has to be spent than
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  cleaning up all of these deceased animals that are
• 17:20
  everywhere. Like pointing out ways that it
• 17:22
  could benefit them even if their viewpoint and opinion isn't
• 17:26
  necessarily aligned with like mine Personally, and I think if
• 17:31
  you can get someone to spay or neuter a cat, I have read the
• 17:35
  statistic that over a span. Of seven years, you saved
• 17:41
  something like 4000 cats because of the rate at which they
• 17:44
  reproduce and how many, you know, kittens are going to be in
• 17:48
  their litter and how many kittens those kittens will have.
• 17:50
  And so I just have to remind myself.
• 17:55
  Especially in other countries, but here in the US as well, I
• 17:58
  have to remind myself to celebrate every victory because
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  it feels so freaking hopeless. It feels so hopeless.
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  I go to the kill rooms here, I go to other countries where they
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  think they're just expenditures. They think they're just like,
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  you know, rocks, and you can kick them over in the street and
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  who cares? And then they breed out of
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  control and they lead these lives of horrific suffering,
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  right. But like if one cat is spayed in
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  that country, or with these two, if two cats.
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  Are like intercepted before they get to this really high shelter,
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  highkill shelter where they're both a little bit older.
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  So they would not, they would have given them a couple days.
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  They would have been adopted if people adopted like little tiny
• 18:37
  kittens and puppies and then they would have been euthanized.
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  And so I have to just remind myself to celebrate the winds
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  because it gets really overwhelming if you like, look
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  at the big picture and think this is never going to get
• 18:48
  fixed, celebrate each victory and keep moving forward.
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  I couldn't, I couldn't agree more.
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  It's interesting. There's a few things I wanted to
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  touch on there. One thing obviously that that
• 19:01
  comes to mind when I think about this is like, yeah, just how
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  differently certain countries or regions of countries can be on
• 19:10
  on this on this topic, because it's like I remember going on a
• 19:14
  holiday in like 2013 to this country, Bulgaria.
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  And like I went to like some holiday resort beach which is
• 19:23
  totally not me. It was like the only time I've
• 19:26
  ever been on a beach holiday in my life.
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  But I was just trying to you know whatever it was an
• 19:30
  inclusive deal. It was fun.
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  Did get boring very quickly though.
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  I remember my then partner and I were just completely side note
• 19:38
  for a second. We were like clamoring to find
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  like any type of like culture or like stuff that we could just do
• 19:45
  like historically why generally like history wise art white like
• 19:49
  because just sitting on a. Beach like that got boring after
• 19:51
  about half an hour. Anyway, I remember one time I
• 19:55
  was in the the pool of the hotel that we were staying at and I
• 20:00
  just got out and this stray dog like starts running around and
• 20:08
  then some people, some people are looking at it like I think
• 20:10
  obviously tourists that's unusual for us to see, you know,
• 20:13
  and but like the people working at the hotel weren't.
• 20:18
  Particularly like, stunned. You know, the Bulgarians weren't
• 20:21
  stunned. It's like, as I understand, as
• 20:23
  it was explained to me, quite a common occurrence.
• 20:25
  And people were saying like, oh, don't touch it, they might have
• 20:27
  fleas, etcetera. But I remembered like, how
• 20:32
  tragic that was just seeing the dog, because the dog looked like
• 20:36
  happy to see humans, but like also just kind of like ragged
• 20:39
  and like it not eaten in the wild and stuff.
• 20:41
  And I'd never seen a stray dog or a stray animal.
• 20:48
  In the UK there might be, I don't, I couldn't speak to this,
• 20:53
  but I I've never seen it. We're big.
• 20:57
  We're known as a nation that loves pets that were big on
• 20:59
  pets. And this kind of leads into the
• 21:02
  next point I wanted to make about perception.
• 21:05
  Because for instance, when I lived in this country, Estonia,
• 21:08
  years ago, a lot of places like, you know, standard, you know,
• 21:13
  they're big pet owners too. But there were places like when
• 21:15
  you go to the countryside and stuff.
• 21:17
  On farms, etcetera, people got like their big scary dogs, Some
• 21:21
  of them are on chains, some of them are outside, most of them
• 21:26
  will live, will live in the house, right, and and, you know,
• 21:28
  be domesticated in that sense. But like, there's a lot that
• 21:31
  aren't. And as we were talking earlier,
• 21:33
  it kind of made me think about the fact that, like, the way we
• 21:38
  treat our pets or or at least the way it.
• 21:43
  I feel like it's changed over time because I remember like
• 21:45
  when I was growing up watching like say like Looney Tunes or
• 21:49
  something and seeing like the dogs in in like portrayed like,
• 21:54
  OK, they're outdoors, they have their their door out.
• 21:57
  So the little house thing outside they they never come in
• 22:01
  unless brought in to to be fed. Like they just stay outside.
• 22:05
  And I suppose the logic there is that they're guarding the
• 22:08
  property, right? So you can have a guard dog who.
• 22:13
  Essentially is like on an alert most of the time And then
• 22:18
  similar to like how police dogs when they put the apron on and
• 22:21
  they're you know in the zone versus when they take it off.
• 22:24
  And yeah, and it's kind of kind of like that.
• 22:27
  But again culturally it depends because some regions, places
• 22:32
  just regard them as just you know just guard dogs.
• 22:34
  That's it, that's what they are. But it found it's interesting to
• 22:38
  me that. Now you don't see that as much
• 22:41
  or at least in media that I watch now, it's like you don't
• 22:45
  see that, you know, it's it's more like, oh, dogs are in the
• 22:47
  house. You know, their cats are in the
• 22:49
  house. They're homebodies.
• 22:50
  You know, that's that's normal. It's what you do.
• 22:53
  And I don't know if that's like a if it's something that's
• 22:57
  changed over time or if we just changed as a culture or if it's
• 23:01
  like country by country, the difference.
• 23:05
  But it's, I don't know, it's just something that that.
• 23:07
  I find kind of interesting on this, like the way that people
• 23:11
  perceive animals and pets and stuff and what we're taught as
• 23:15
  we're growing up, you know? Well, I hope I don't piss people
• 23:21
  off by saying this. I'm gonna choose my words
• 23:23
  carefully cuz I want to be respectful, I think, even with
• 23:28
  things that might not necessarily resonate with me,
• 23:31
  but I will say as someone who has followed.
• 23:38
  Purely empathetic. Empathetic.
• 23:41
  Like urges and feelings and relatability to other creatures
• 23:47
  and never really subscribes to societal norms.
• 23:50
  I just didn't. I don't know.
• 23:51
  I missed that day in school where you're supposed to follow
• 23:53
  these rules because someone you never met established them and
• 23:58
  they work. No, I'll follow it if it makes
• 24:01
  sense and if it's compassionate and if it's rooted in, like,
• 24:03
  helping things. But anyway, like.
• 24:06
  As someone who has never really subscribed to all of that, I
• 24:08
  think I just view it through the lens of control and oppression.
• 24:16
  Because I think that, you know, I think we are hopefully
• 24:19
  shifting as a species. We're shifting our mindset and
• 24:23
  understanding that we are not the only creatures that matter
• 24:27
  in this universe, but I mean, look at what we've done to
• 24:32
  people as well and animals alike.
• 24:35
  But like, look at what's currently happening in so many
• 24:37
  parts of the world as well. We're like people are disposable
• 24:41
  and animals are disposable. And it literally comes down to
• 24:44
  societal structures that benefited somebody by making
• 24:48
  these tools essentially. So like, if you can enslave
• 24:53
  people, if you can breed cattle in like these horrific
• 24:58
  conditions and then slaughter them in really gruesome and like
• 25:03
  unethical ways, like. You can make a dollar and your
• 25:06
  society might be thriving at the expense of the entire planet and
• 25:10
  all of the people that are eating this meat that's been
• 25:13
  pumped full of like chemicals and hormones and things.
• 25:16
  I just feel like it all stems from societal control.
• 25:20
  A lot of that usually has a religious backing and.
• 25:24
  Also, just from like someone standing something to gain, I
• 25:28
  think, and I was reading this book, it was an anthropological
• 25:32
  book, and it was so interesting because it was preaching to
• 25:35
  like, it was basically written for what I call normal humans,
• 25:40
  and I'm just the strange little outer space creature that landed
• 25:43
  on the wrong planet. So it was talking about like,
• 25:46
  deconstructing all of these things that are societally
• 25:48
  accepted. And I'm like, oh dude, I knew
• 25:50
  that. Like, I never thought.
• 25:52
  Like a lawn meant anything. Lawns, lawns, like grass that is
• 25:56
  not used for any like food or nourishment purposes.
• 26:00
  Like it made no sense to me. I'm like okay, well, if we're
• 26:03
  going to, you know, have plants that we can feed things with or
• 26:06
  that are sustainable that are replenishing the earth, like
• 26:08
  literally. We pull up trees and plant
• 26:11
  grasses so we're not helping the earth, right?
• 26:14
  And the whole concept of a lawn was because people wanted to be
• 26:17
  perceived as nobility, because at one point in time you were
• 26:20
  really noble because you could have this wasted land that did
• 26:23
  nothing for anyone. So everyone's like, oh, I want
• 26:26
  that, I want that. And I was like, OK, this book is
• 26:28
  so funny because it's like talking to normal people.
• 26:31
  And I never believed in any of this BS anyway.
• 26:34
  Like, for the most part, like, I never subscribed to any of that.
• 26:37
  But. I just, I just, I just got cut
• 26:40
  in there for a second. I never thought about that.
• 26:43
  The fact that, like, a lawn is literally pointless.
• 26:46
  Like, I suppose it's it's a vanity.
• 26:48
  Symbol It is like a luxury vehicle, but the land version
• 26:53
  like it is a status symbol and it's so people know that you
• 26:55
  have made it. You can have wasted land that
• 26:58
  has no. Service or purpose and.
• 27:00
  We not sound like trees and really important plants and we
• 27:04
  hurt like potentially you know the bugs for the creatures
• 27:06
  living there to do this. On this wasted land anyway.
• 27:10
  But part of the book did mention, and this totally made
• 27:13
  sense to me as someone that had kind of been sucked into like a
• 27:18
  I would say fairly. I didn't think it was extremist,
• 27:21
  but a fairly extremist religious group, at one point a Christian
• 27:25
  group. And then worked my way out of it
• 27:27
  when I started realizing how absolutely and utterly like,
• 27:31
  cruel it was to so many people and exclusive.
• 27:34
  But anyway, the book meant commissioned that.
• 27:38
  Was it like a cult or something? No, literally, it's like, it's
• 27:43
  like a very I don't want to make people mad.
• 27:47
  I was part of the Evangelical Free Church, which is similar
• 27:49
  to, like Southern Baptists here in the US And you know, I got
• 27:52
  roped in because it's like people are playing guitars and
• 27:54
  it's fun and you have popcorn and movie nights and everybody
• 27:57
  seems really nice. But then like, the more I stuck
• 28:00
  with it and I saw how absolutely full of vile and venom, like the
• 28:05
  the hatred toward L GB T. I walked out of church one day
• 28:09
  and I said I'm not going back like I'm not doing this, I
• 28:13
  cannot anyway long story another story for another time.
• 28:16
  But the book talked about how it is a religious and it's a
• 28:21
  judeo-christian like concept primarily but it is a religious
• 28:27
  concept that benefited so many people back in the day.
• 28:31
  Imagine like that man has dominion over the animals like.
• 28:38
  Man used to, at least Like the anthropologist had hypothesized
• 28:43
  that like humans used to kind of like see animals as like their
• 28:48
  allies out there in the wild. Because sometimes, like, you
• 28:50
  know, you guys are protecting each other from like violent
• 28:54
  storms or whatever it may be. And you know that, like, well,
• 28:58
  if you kill this specific animal, then there's not going
• 29:00
  to be any defense against this animal.
• 29:02
  And it was kind of this balance, right?
• 29:03
  Like, it wasn't. There was no or very little
• 29:06
  malice. There was very little control,
• 29:09
  and the whole thing about dominion over animals
• 29:13
  established this new agenda. Were the only creatures who
• 29:18
  actually matter, like the only ones that were worth even
• 29:24
  considering as like fully alive and valuable.
• 29:28
  And even then they excluded a lot that didn't maybe have their
• 29:31
  skin tone or were. Not born men, but still like the
• 29:36
  only ones even worthy of any amount of consideration.
• 29:39
  We're now humans and that was ordained by God.
• 29:42
  So when you say something's ordained by God, then like, it
• 29:46
  has basically like that full umbrella of power.
• 29:49
  Like it is indisputable in a community if you can, like,
• 29:52
  brainwash enough people into believing it, right.
• 29:55
  So I think that whole concept that we can, like, manipulate
• 29:58
  creatures for our own personal gain.
• 30:03
  I think a lot of it stems from religious structures.
• 30:05
  I think also just like kind of the way society was built.
• 30:08
  And I don't know, I don't have an answer.
• 30:10
  Someone asked me and it was a really tough question because I
• 30:12
  love my animals beyond belief, like I cannot describe to you,
• 30:17
  and it was a really tough question.
• 30:19
  I've also rescued animals that I knew I would not ever be able to
• 30:22
  foster, like a close connection with, you know, wild animals
• 30:24
  that go to a sanctuary and I want them to thrive.
• 30:27
  But someone asked me like, well. Isn't it messed up that you have
• 30:30
  like cats and a dog? Because at some point human
• 30:33
  humans domesticated them. Wasn't that selfish?
• 30:35
  Like we wanted something protection, companionship,
• 30:37
  something. And I'm like, you know, I don't
• 30:40
  have an answer for that. Maybe it was selfish and maybe
• 30:42
  they would have been better off in the wild before we took like
• 30:45
  the smallest, weakest ones that can't really survive in the wild
• 30:48
  very much anymore, you know? And maybe they would have been
• 30:52
  better off out there. But I can tell you that since I
• 30:55
  exist in a time where that's not the case, where do we don't get
• 30:58
  that choice? They've already been
• 30:59
  domesticated, and what I know is stray dogs and stray cats, and
• 31:04
  I've seen it and I've read about it and I've done studies on it
• 31:06
  in like grad school, and they don't have a good quality of
• 31:10
  life. They are not.
• 31:11
  We've read them into these creatures that are not meant to
• 31:13
  survive on their own. They can do it.
• 31:15
  They'll have a short lifespan and it will be full of a lot of
• 31:19
  suffering and a lot of diseases, and they'll be scrounging for
• 31:22
  food that isn't readily available because we've
• 31:24
  destroyed so much of the planet. And I just feel like.
• 31:28
  Maybe it was bad that we did it at some point in time.
• 31:30
  I can't say that I don't love it.
• 31:32
  I can't say that I don't absolutely adore my animals so
• 31:35
  much that like, my chest hurts when I'm traveling sometimes
• 31:38
  because I miss them. Like I do think maybe overtime,
• 31:43
  naturally some cats and dogs would have gravitated toward us.
• 31:47
  I'll never know. We domesticated them.
• 31:49
  We did that. And so at this point it's like,
• 31:51
  well, how do we then ensure that every animal has a life worth
• 31:56
  living? I would be sad if we hadn't
• 31:59
  domesticated them, I guess. Like, I wouldn't know what I was
• 32:02
  missing. But I'll tell you, they add so
• 32:04
  much joy to, like, even my toughest days.
• 32:07
  It's interesting the the concept of quality of life, you know, as
• 32:12
  it pertains to animals, because obviously, yeah, they don't live
• 32:14
  as long as us. By comparison, their needs are
• 32:19
  much simpler, but also the same, you know, shelter, food.
• 32:24
  Drink, you know, having a nice space to be in.
• 32:27
  I mean, it's interesting. I find that when when people say
• 32:31
  like, oh, then they're not like humans, they're inferior to
• 32:35
  humans, whatever. Because especially like say like
• 32:39
  dogs and cats and stuff. Like it's been proven time and
• 32:42
  time again. They have like unawareness and
• 32:44
  some abilities that like even humans don't have, you know, and
• 32:49
  like, you know that you can see it like if if you're depressed.
• 32:53
  Your Your pet will know that it will see.
• 32:55
  They know it before you do. Sometimes, yeah.
• 32:58
  They'll just recognize it and sense it.
• 33:00
  And I I didn't. Like.
• 33:02
  When you look at it like that, like listen, some people don't
• 33:06
  even have emotional maturity and yet your your cat understands
• 33:09
  you're depressed, Do you know what I mean?
• 33:11
  And and it's kind of comfortable.
• 33:13
  I feel like animals are the best qualities of humans, just kind
• 33:16
  of like this genuine desire to like, connect and.
• 33:22
  Like, not necessarily pressure to be anything.
• 33:24
  You don't have to be beautiful for your dog to love you.
• 33:26
  You don't have to be the most successful human in the world,
• 33:29
  right? Like they're all the best
• 33:30
  qualities of the human, of the human race, and then they lack
• 33:35
  our worst qualities, like intentional malice.
• 33:37
  To my knowledge, I could be wrong.
• 33:38
  I asked my dad this he's a microbiologist, but I asked him,
• 33:42
  are there any animals in nature or domesticated ones that will
• 33:46
  literally just do things just to be cruel because humans will?
• 33:50
  But are there any others? And my dad said there are some
• 33:53
  species of like apes or orangutans that will like do
• 33:58
  things like engage in a fight that has no societal like
• 34:02
  benefits for them. So maybe like the higher orders,
• 34:06
  but as far as he knew, in actual like nature things will kill.
• 34:12
  They will kill for food, they'll kill for self-defense, you know,
• 34:14
  they'll do what they have to do, but nothing.
• 34:17
  As far as he knew, was done strictly out of malice.
• 34:22
  And that to me was my indicator that this species that we have
• 34:25
  highly regarded for so long ourselves, like maybe we are the
• 34:29
  Super villains and maybe like the bad guy in all the movies
• 34:33
  that we want to think is some like cocaine bear or some like
• 34:36
  big alligator. Maybe we're the real villains
• 34:39
  here, like who's actually doing better and worse for the planet
• 34:43
  as we know it, And it's. Not going to be the alligators,
• 34:46
  I'll tell you that much. But I also think that what you
• 34:48
  were saying is religious because I think the folks that believe
• 34:52
  that we are superior somehow, that we deserve more and it's
• 34:57
  our birthright and all this stuff.
• 34:58
  Like, sure, we have a higher order of intelligence, but
• 35:01
  that's religious in the sense that it is perceived as like we
• 35:06
  were chosen by God to be human and as someone that does not
• 35:09
  believe, that believes in like the laws of like nature and
• 35:13
  Mother Earth. Instead of a strictly religious
• 35:16
  perspective, I don't think that I was selected because I'm
• 35:21
  special. I don't think I'm better than
• 35:23
  this cat or even like, you know, a tree or something out there
• 35:27
  that might need nourishment as well.
• 35:28
  That is like growing and evolving and contributing to the
• 35:32
  planet. Like I don't think we're better.
• 35:33
  I think whatever happened in The Big Bang or whenever like to
• 35:38
  make things as they are, as we perceive them, I think.
• 35:43
  The laws of like, physics and our reality as we know it went
• 35:47
  all the way down the line an infinite amount of times.
• 35:49
  And here I am. But I don't think I was ordained
• 35:53
  by God to be worth more than anything else.
• 35:55
  And even when I find like bugs inside my apartment and stuff
• 35:59
  like, look, I live in this society and so yes, I have
• 36:05
  accepted certain things. I know that when this apartment
• 36:07
  complex was built that, you know, we.
• 36:10
  Dug up Earth and destroyed a lot of creatures, lives and stuff.
• 36:13
  But I try to minimize my individual footprint as much as
• 36:16
  I can, as much as I can. Like I don't eat meat, I never
• 36:19
  will. I don't wear animal products.
• 36:22
  I don't use them. Like I try my best where I can.
• 36:25
  And if I find bugs in the apartment, like I do not kill
• 36:28
  things because we invaded their turf and they're now here to try
• 36:32
  to figure out what's going on. I like try to bring that side.
• 36:35
  I try to bring them to safety. I'm not perfect and I have a
• 36:38
  long way to go, but I think, like making intentional efforts,
• 36:42
  yes, sometimes we're going to have to compromise.
• 36:44
  Like, yes, I drive a vehicle, it's an EV electric vehicle.
• 36:47
  I'm trying to have less of a footprint.
• 36:49
  But you know, I I would lose my job if I didn't get to work.
• 36:53
  And in a perfect society we wouldn't need jobs with just
• 36:55
  like exist and be in communication and relationships
• 36:58
  with each other. But in this society, like, if I
• 37:00
  want to rescue animals, if I want to do good in the world,
• 37:02
  then I kind of have to like have some source of funding.
• 37:07
  In some way, but anyway, like, I try to minimize that and I feel
• 37:10
  that I'm not special or I'm not better than the lizard that
• 37:14
  crawls under my door because I have this human skin.
• 37:17
  If anything, this has done a lot more destruction on the planet
• 37:22
  than like these other creatures that are just doing their best
• 37:25
  to like, survive in a sustainable environment.
• 37:29
  Yeah, I totally agree with you. One thing I did want to kind of
• 37:33
  just briefly touch on this. I guess I just I'm exploring
• 37:37
  just from a like a I don't know is it philosophy maybe it's just
• 37:44
  wondering why things are the way they are but why do you think it
• 37:51
  is the way that it is as far as like how we can't like
• 37:54
  understand and communicate directly with?
• 37:58
  Say animals and vice versa, of course.
• 38:01
  Don't get me wrong. I know we communicate in our own
• 38:02
  way. I mean it's you can quite easily
• 38:05
  have a connection with a dog and a cat or or whatever and you
• 38:09
  just know you feel it. A lot of it's more I think
• 38:12
  rooted in like empathy and and just kind of the unspoken, isn't
• 38:17
  it? Or body language as well.
• 38:20
  But why? Why do you think that's the
• 38:21
  case? I mean, I suppose that is
• 38:24
  because that will often be. Given as the reason why, you
• 38:28
  know, like we're considered to be better, cuz it's like OK,
• 38:30
  well we're able to you know, do all these things that these
• 38:36
  animals aren't able to do and therefore that makes us better.
• 38:39
  I'm not saying I necessarily agree with that.
• 38:40
  I'm just saying that that's kind of like what people will say.
• 38:45
  Well, I just want your your kind of thoughts on that.
• 38:47
  Like why do you think it's not that?
• 38:50
  I really believe like I think that.
• 38:54
  We communicate through energy. A lot of times, like I've had
• 38:58
  wild animals that should Peck at me.
• 39:00
  But they know. I think they know on some sense
• 39:03
  that I'm trying to save them. A duck that I scooped up from
• 39:05
  the middle of the road, right, should have pecked my face off.
• 39:08
  It was still alive but like just melted in my arms.
• 39:12
  It's a wild duck. I think they can sense and they
• 39:15
  know and they communicate in their own ways.
• 39:17
  But it's not verbal. It's not words, right?
• 39:20
  And I. I don't have an answer for you
• 39:23
  with that. I would say that maybe the best
• 39:26
  answer I could offer is that it's a very human thing, like
• 39:30
  it's very much part of our species to want to know and
• 39:35
  understand. I don't know if it's because we
• 39:37
  want foothold and something if we want to gain some kind of
• 39:40
  power somehow, but I know that like the need to find reasons.
• 39:47
  Purpose for everything is so intrinsically human.
• 39:50
  Like, I see it over and over again in social work.
• 39:52
  I see it as a flag Senate, as just a human, as a, you know,
• 39:57
  person that is existing on this planet.
• 40:00
  Like we want so badly to have understanding of everything and
• 40:06
  knowledge and a purpose and a reason.
• 40:09
  And I think that's where religion derives from, right?
• 40:12
  Like we want to know. Why I'm here And like, what
• 40:15
  happens after I die? And who are the bad ones that
• 40:17
  are going to go to a workplace that I'm better than?
• 40:20
  And all of these questions. And I think that a lot of that
• 40:25
  can lead to really sinister things because I think there's
• 40:28
  like an opportunity for manipulation.
• 40:30
  And I think with animals, they don't need that.
• 40:33
  Like they don't need that. What they're doing and their
• 40:38
  existence and the things that they embody are so much simpler.
• 40:42
  And there's so much. Like a cat doesn't know
• 40:47
  necessarily. I don't know.
• 40:48
  I'll never be able to ask them, but I don't think they
• 40:50
  understand. Like, wow, when death happens,
• 40:52
  it's like final and I'm not coming back.
• 40:54
  And there's a chance that, like, I just don't exist anymore.
• 40:57
  No one really knows. They don't know that.
• 40:58
  But they know, OK, let's try not to get eaten by that giant
• 41:04
  animal out there, right? So, like, they don't need the
• 41:07
  why. And humans for some reason.
• 41:09
  I think that's what language. Probably evolved from is like we
• 41:14
  just it feels intrinsic to me that we're built with like this
• 41:20
  burning desire to have the answers to even things that
• 41:25
  maybe aren't knowable and then we just make them up and
• 41:28
  sometimes use them against other people like religions.
• 41:30
  But you know like we have that intrinsic like yearning and I
• 41:34
  don't see that with. My dog, I see my dog get scared
• 41:39
  of a thunderstorm and say, OK, where do I seek cover?
• 41:42
  But I don't see her as far as I can tell, asking like, but why
• 41:47
  did this happen? And like is this like, you know,
• 41:50
  something that's a product of this place that we live in.
• 41:53
  Like not all of the questions that humans have, which I think
• 41:56
  is the reason I believe that we developed language and
• 41:59
  conversations. I don't think it's better.
• 42:02
  I think it's just different. I think that their existence
• 42:05
  does not revolve around. Having to feel that they have a
• 42:09
  grasp in everything that they understand and they like have
• 42:12
  this comprehension. And then for us that is more of
• 42:17
  a commonplace desire. I I believe.
• 42:21
  But it leads to a lot of suffering too.
• 42:22
  Like how much do we stress and like get depressed over and get
• 42:28
  anxiety about things that genuinely are not knowable.
• 42:32
  The people that are super religious will tell you that
• 42:34
  they know. Where they go when they die.
• 42:36
  But the truth of it is even for people that believe with every
• 42:39
  fiber of their being, they don't actually know.
• 42:42
  No one knows till it happens. But like we agonize about all of
• 42:46
  these questions that we feel should be knowable.
• 42:49
  And we a lot of times, I believe make up answers and make up like
• 42:54
  things that provide some comfort.
• 42:57
  But at the end of the day, we're still left kind of spinning
• 42:59
  circles in our brain, right? It's interesting something that
• 43:05
  you said. The beg begs a real big
• 43:08
  philosophical question. It's it's this idea of like do
• 43:13
  animals actually know or don't they?
• 43:15
  I look at them and I feel like they do.
• 43:18
  I feel like they understand absolutely everything that
• 43:21
  you're saying and doing etcetera.
• 43:23
  However, I don't know on the flip side of that, I feel like
• 43:27
  because what you outlined is it kind of almost.
• 43:31
  Says it all really that that they don't need to because they
• 43:34
  live in the moment. They live in each passing moment
• 43:37
  and that's how they function. And maybe maybe they can't think
• 43:40
  that way, but they the way they think is something that we
• 43:43
  couldn't even call like possibly comprehend because it's just so
• 43:46
  different. For example, I remember many
• 43:49
  years ago reading someone saying that like, oh, if it was
• 43:53
  possible to speak to animals, for example, if you spoke to a
• 43:57
  lion. And the lion was capable of
• 43:59
  speaking English. What it would say would be
• 44:02
  nonsensical because it's points of reference are completely
• 44:07
  different from yours. So I wouldn't be able to like
• 44:10
  you just wouldn't be able to have a conversation.
• 44:11
  And I kind of blew my mind thinking about it's like because
• 44:15
  it obviously it would understand.
• 44:16
  It would say the words that you would understand, but it it just
• 44:21
  you wouldn't be able to connect in any way because.
• 44:22
  No, I I actually can. I can resonate with that my.
• 44:26
  Caveat would be that I don't think that it would be
• 44:28
  nonsensical. I think what we are saying would
• 44:30
  be nonsensical to the lion. Possibly.
• 44:32
  Like I don't think there's this wrong, but I do think I do
• 44:35
  believe that like the point of reference is going to be so
• 44:38
  different that it would be like trying to communicate with
• 44:41
  someone in another dimension where it's like your brains are
• 44:45
  not possibly. I I'll never know.
• 44:48
  I kind of hope I do someday. That would be really cool.
• 44:51
  I would love to be part of like that experiment if it was
• 44:53
  possible but like. I just feel like we would come
• 44:57
  at it with from such a different wavelength.
• 44:59
  I do think there would be some symmetry though, because I see
• 45:02
  with my dog in particular, my cats are kind of I love them to
• 45:05
  death, but they're kind of lazy and they like ignore me unless
• 45:08
  it somehow results in them getting treats or toys.
• 45:11
  But like my dog in particular, I feel like she would probably be
• 45:17
  like talking to a child that's just learning English, but right
• 45:21
  if we could communicate and speak English because.
• 45:24
  I'll give her really complicated commands sometimes.
• 45:27
  And a lot like the first few years that we had her, I
• 45:30
  thought, yeah, this dog, like, we didn't train her very well
• 45:33
  because she doesn't follow commands.
• 45:34
  And then I realized it's because she didn't want to, because one
• 45:36
  day I gave her a very complicated command that ended
• 45:39
  up in her getting a ball. I was like, okay, Stella, go
• 45:43
  into the other room, go around the corner.
• 45:44
  Once you get past the couch, you have to turn this way.
• 45:48
  And I pointed, I said, and that's where you'll find like,
• 45:51
  this ball or this bone or whatever it is.
• 45:53
  And she literally, like, I watched her do what I had
• 45:56
  commanded or asked of her. And I think, like, she had
• 46:01
  understood so much more than I thought that she had.
• 46:04
  But she was smart enough to kind of like, learn.
• 46:07
  Well, I don't really like love when you know, this happened.
• 46:12
  So I might like, sit that one out even though I know what
• 46:14
  she's saying. So I do think there would be
• 46:16
  some language like when I'm cutting an animal on the
• 46:19
  airplane. And telling them like, OK, I
• 46:21
  know it's loud, it's scary. But like, you're OK like this.
• 46:24
  I promise you I'm taking care of you.
• 46:25
  I think that kind of thing, they would understand and they would
• 46:29
  say, like, OK, good or something like that.
• 46:32
  But they already say that. They just don't do it with
• 46:35
  words, right? Like they already say that I can
• 46:38
  see it when I look down on them. I can feel it when I, like, pick
• 46:41
  them up and hold them like that duck that should have packed my
• 46:43
  face off, but new in some way. Like, I've rescued so many
• 46:49
  turtles. When we lived in Texas, we lived
• 46:50
  right near this lake and there were all these turtles.
• 46:53
  They get very disoriented when it rains, like really hard.
• 46:56
  They can't find their way back to the lake because there's so
• 46:58
  much water in like the grasses and stuff.
• 47:01
  And so I I've seen them smashed in the streets, like when they
• 47:04
  get run over and I've rescued. I couldn't count how many from
• 47:07
  like streets I get like bring them back to the pond, carry
• 47:09
  them snapping turtles that like, could be kind of aggressive.
• 47:14
  And every time I was like shaking because I would just be
• 47:17
  out walking and find them and like there's no time to go home.
• 47:19
  They'll get hit. And so I like pick them up and I
• 47:21
  lift them and I bring them to the water's edge.
• 47:23
  And then I put them back in like this lake.
• 47:26
  And I feel like somehow I just feel like they know.
• 47:32
  Like maybe it's my tone, my energy, my demeanor, something
• 47:36
  because they retreat into their shell and they.
• 47:39
  They never attacked me, which isn't to say it could never
• 47:42
  happen, But I just know from my experience, like, I really do
• 47:46
  believe that there is some sense of like that kind of energy and
• 47:50
  that compassion where you're really trying to help them.
• 47:52
  And I think animals for the most part, do respond to that, I.
• 47:57
  Totally agree. Let's switch things up.
• 47:59
  So you wrote a book. It's called Flight Path.
• 48:07
  You wrote two books. Let's talk about flight path and
• 48:10
  how it came to be. Sure, I love this question
• 48:14
  because this is like my never give up story because I wrote my
• 48:19
  first book when I was 8 and it was handwritten in a journal.
• 48:23
  It's about a lost cat, which is very odd brand for me.
• 48:26
  But I decided when I was like a little kid that this is my
• 48:32
  dream. I wanna write books.
• 48:33
  I love this. It gave me an outlet for a lot
• 48:37
  of the anxiety and a lot of the weight that I carried around
• 48:41
  because being an empathy, you're so much more attuned to
• 48:44
  suffering. It gave me like, this outlet and
• 48:46
  this world that I could create and I could craft these happy
• 48:49
  endings and then hopefully inspire people to read them and
• 48:52
  then, like, maybe they could resonate with that, or there
• 48:56
  would be some connection or some good that would come out of it,
• 48:58
  right? So I said, OK, I'm going to be
• 49:00
  an author when I grew up and like, I had no idea that it's
• 49:02
  really freaking hard. Like, really hard.
• 49:04
  To get published, it's like a little kid that says I'm going
• 49:07
  to be an actress. Like, that's it.
• 49:09
  I I know my calling instantly. And then the rest of their life,
• 49:12
  they're like trying to figure out, like, how to actually make
• 49:17
  that happen, right? So in college, it was my
• 49:20
  sophomore year of college and I wrote my first full length, like
• 49:24
  actual adult novel, like not a little kids book written in a
• 49:28
  journal. So I wrote my first book and I
• 49:31
  had written. I believe 3.
• 49:33
  By the time I finished college and I started, you know,
• 49:37
  shopping them out after school ended and figuring out my next
• 49:41
  steps in life and I started realizing like, wait, this is
• 49:45
  weird. Like, I'm getting like rejected
• 49:48
  so much. And you know, people would say
• 49:50
  all these comforting things like, oh, this author, whatever,
• 49:52
  Stephen King or whoever got projected 7 times.
• 49:56
  And I would be like, wow, that's not comforting at all.
• 49:58
  I got that in the last hour. Like, what are you talking
• 50:01
  about? That actually makes me feel
• 50:02
  worse. And then I joined a bunch of
• 50:04
  writer circles, and I saw that there's all these other authors
• 50:07
  that are struggling, too, to, like, get noticed and get picked
• 50:10
  up. And I'm like, oh, my God, this
• 50:13
  is not what I thought it was. So, like, I started a blog when
• 50:16
  I became a flight attendant. I wrote articles when I did
• 50:19
  AmeriCorps, which is like the domestic Peace Corps right after
• 50:21
  college. So I was still writing, but I
• 50:23
  was kind of like. Shifting my focus until I could
• 50:25
  figure out how to break into like the actual, like Author
• 50:30
  Arena published Novelist Arena. And so I was kind of focusing on
• 50:35
  other things, still writing on the side.
• 50:37
  And then by I think it was like 2014 or 2015, I had 12 books
• 50:44
  that I'd completed and none were published.
• 50:47
  And I am an optimist in general, and I think I am like a pretty.
• 50:55
  Happy person. I have a lot of passions, but
• 50:57
  like, I'm pretty much like I have this positive outlook in
• 51:00
  general, but I was just so disheartened.
• 51:03
  I was just so broken. I just, you know, if all of
• 51:06
  these people, and it's hundreds and I've lost count and maybe
• 51:09
  it's thousands, just like rejection after rejection.
• 51:12
  And like a lot of them don't even bother to write back.
• 51:14
  They don't even read it. It's like immediately sent to
• 51:16
  their they call it a slush pile. That's the term in the industry,
• 51:19
  which is really freaking insulting.
• 51:20
  Like someone pours their life into a book and you throw it in
• 51:23
  the slush pile to be unread and instantly deleted.
• 51:26
  But anyway, like I just said, all these people that think that
• 51:31
  my books are. Horrible.
• 51:34
  Like, they're trash. So they're definitely right.
• 51:36
  So I'm not doing this anymore. Like, I'll write web content for
• 51:40
  nonprofits. I'll do a lot of good, but I'm
• 51:41
  not writing books. I'm just not doing it.
• 51:43
  So then, Fast forward to 2018. I'm in Graduate School, so I'm
• 51:47
  in Graduate School. I'm rescuing all these animals
• 51:49
  in Texas. I'm on the peer support team at
• 51:52
  my airline. I'm volunteering in like several
• 51:53
  major nonprofits. Locally, I'm working my fulltime
• 51:56
  job as flight attendant because I'm still a flight attendant.
• 51:58
  And like, you know, I have my hand.
• 52:01
  In so many different things. And I just remember one night I
• 52:05
  couldn't sleep. I'm like a very terrible sleeper
• 52:08
  in general, but I couldn't sleep.
• 52:09
  And I remember lying in bed and thinking I am not that girl.
• 52:15
  Like, I don't give up on things. I mean, I'm out here rescuing
• 52:18
  like cats and dogs and bunnies and birds.
• 52:20
  Like, even when everybody tells me it's a lost cause.
• 52:22
  And like, I'm out here fighting for human rights.
• 52:24
  This is Texas where, like, we don't have a lot of human rights
• 52:28
  and I'm out here like. Marching in the streets and
• 52:30
  volunteering and giving my time to all of these things that
• 52:33
  actually make a difference and matter.
• 52:35
  I went back to Graduate School while I had my full time job and
• 52:38
  all these other plates, like spinning in the air, right?
• 52:40
  And I gave up on writing because someone else told me I wasn't
• 52:44
  good enough. Like, that's not me.
• 52:46
  Like if they don't want to publish my books, that's cool.
• 52:49
  I will. I'll self publish.
• 52:51
  I'll upload them slowly, like chapter by chapter onto my blog.
• 52:54
  I'll find a way. Like I'll find a way or I'll
• 52:56
  just write them for me, but like, I'm not the person.
• 53:00
  That has ever in my life listened when the world told me
• 53:04
  no unless there was like a valid reason, right?
• 53:07
  Or unless it was something that was harmful.
• 53:09
  But like this was my my passion. So I decided that I was going to
• 53:14
  finish the book I had been working on when I stepped away
• 53:15
  from writing books. And within 30 days it's the
• 53:18
  fastest I've ever written a novel.
• 53:20
  It usually takes me anywhere between like 5 or 6 to 9 months
• 53:26
  to finish a book, but within 30 days I'd completed the book.
• 53:29
  And I said I would give myself a few months to shop it out, and
• 53:32
  if no publishers or literary agents were interested, then I
• 53:34
  would find a way to like self publisher, somehow do something
• 53:37
  else with it. And in January I started
• 53:41
  chopping it out to publishers and I had a contract in my hand
• 53:44
  by June, and it was published the following January.
• 53:49
  So that was like my story, kind of my reminder to myself and
• 53:52
  literally like anyone and everyone in the whole world that
• 53:55
  like your value, your worth. Is not determined by other
• 54:00
  people. It might not be their
• 54:02
  preference. They might not need it in that
• 54:04
  moment. But like, if there is something
• 54:06
  that is fueling and igniting your soul with the caveat, like
• 54:11
  not selling, that is deliberately harmful to other
• 54:14
  people, because then you're casting all this negative energy
• 54:17
  back into the world. Like, but something that's just,
• 54:19
  you know, an expressive form or something that makes you feel
• 54:24
  whole, it represents your being, then like.
• 54:29
  It's nobody else's call whether you're allowed to pursue that
• 54:33
  with your whole heart. It's nobody else's call.
• 54:36
  And so once I had that first book published, I was like, I'm
• 54:40
  going to write all the books. Like I was doing it before I had
• 54:44
  my breakdown and now I'm going to write all the books.
• 54:46
  So I wrote another one during the pandemic and that one was
• 54:49
  released this year. That one's mid flight, March
• 54:52
  31st. It was released.
• 54:54
  So yeah, and I have one in the works right now.
• 54:57
  It's like. Kind of like a murder mystery
• 55:00
  with the social conscience. It's.
• 55:03
  My books are very different. They're really busy.
• 55:05
  There's a lot going on in them. I have a lot of issues that I
• 55:10
  think a lot of authors don't broach like.
• 55:12
  I talk about things like systemic injustice.
• 55:16
  I talk about mental illness and wellbeing.
• 55:19
  I talk about just kind of like mistreatment in general.
• 55:25
  Have like people or animals or anything, but I do it with an
• 55:29
  actual storyline. The one that just came out was a
• 55:31
  dystopian thriller, and it takes place in like 2037 slash 2038,
• 55:38
  kind of like The Handmaid's Tale in the future with the flight
• 55:40
  attendant as the protagonist. So yeah, that's where I'm at.
• 55:46
  Awesome, man. I I really resonate with what
• 55:48
  you're saying about just just like keeping going and and.
• 55:53
  Like not not giving up and like doing what you're supposed to
• 55:56
  do. Like, I'm, well, I'm an actor.
• 56:00
  Like trying to be an actor. At least I did it last four
• 56:03
  years. And same as yourself, you know,
• 56:06
  I do live streams, I do obviously podcasts, Patreon
• 56:11
  stuff, music, a lot, a lot of different things.
• 56:16
  But acting is the main, the main goal.
• 56:17
  And I have plenty of days, like where I just sit and look at
• 56:20
  like. And I tell other people not to
• 56:23
  do this as well. But, you know, you're like you
• 56:24
  you can't help but look at, like the numbers over time and be
• 56:28
  like, ah, it's not quite where I want it to be.
• 56:30
  Or maybe I haven't had work in a while or whatever and just being
• 56:34
  able to keep going and keep trying and, you know, not
• 56:39
  letting it get to you. And like, yeah, I was, I was
• 56:41
  saying it the other day. I downloaded this app.
• 56:45
  Fred's, it's, it's kind of wild, really addictive.
• 56:49
  And everyone's like. It's like early 2000 social
• 56:52
  media. Everyone's just like tweeting
• 56:53
  all their for or. Freddy Oh yeah, I got.
• 56:56
  I got threads too. I I didn't even know what it
• 56:58
  was. And my friend that has this
• 57:00
  amazing, heartwarming publication sent me a request
• 57:03
  and I'm like, what is this? And I looked it up and
• 57:05
  downloaded it. So yes, I'm on there too.
• 57:07
  Yeah. It's good stuff.
• 57:09
  But yeah, I'm sort of like rediscovering just my love
• 57:12
  social media again and just like having fun with it.
• 57:14
  But I was reflecting on just like.
• 57:20
  You know, the idea of not giving up and and keep on going and
• 57:25
  that there was a podcast, another podcaster who's not been
• 57:27
  doing this show very long. I've been on his, he's been on
• 57:30
  mine and he was talking about having like stagnating numbers
• 57:35
  or something. And I was just like, oh, you got
• 57:37
  to love this. You got to, you got to do, you
• 57:39
  got to like essentially find reasons to do this that are
• 57:43
  bigger than yourself. You know, like I would
• 57:46
  absolutely love it. If like, tomorrow, I got like
• 57:49
  the acting role of my dreams and you know, everything just came
• 57:52
  together and my podcast got sponsored and you know, all my
• 57:56
  dreams came true and all that. But you know, what really
• 57:58
  matters is like actually just doing the show and putting some,
• 58:02
  like, good content together and I guess talk to amazing people
• 58:05
  like yourself. I mean this, this episode we're
• 58:07
  doing right now is 223. I think Episode 223, I've been
• 58:13
  doing this like three years. I've met people from all around
• 58:16
  the world, different backgrounds, cultures, creeds,
• 58:19
  colors, etcetera. And I think the one unifying
• 58:24
  thread with all of those shows is this idea of just like,
• 58:29
  pursue what it is you want to do in life and make that your
• 58:34
  ultimate focus. And as you said, like, don't let
• 58:37
  other people tell you, don't don't let the fact that like,
• 58:40
  maybe you haven't got the numbers.
• 58:41
  Bother you. Don't let the fact that like,
• 58:43
  but here's another thing. This is something I read and
• 58:45
  This is why I brought up the Fred's thing.
• 58:48
  When you see success stories and I know you covered it earlier
• 58:51
  like oh, you know, such and such person failed 7 times and then
• 58:55
  they were a success. And I see, I see like endless
• 58:57
  success stories of like, oh, I finally got, you know, sponsored
• 59:01
  or I finally got this book deal or I finally got this role that
• 59:04
  I'm after or whatever. And you know, it's it's hard not
• 59:07
  to sort of look at that and feel like the kid.
• 59:11
  You know, waiting outside the candy shop wishing that they
• 59:13
  could have what's in the window, but they can't afford it kind of
• 59:16
  thing. It's it's like you look at that
• 59:18
  and you wonder like, why not me? Why not me?
• 59:21
  You want to? Celebrate with them.
• 59:23
  But it's so hard to. It's like, so personal, you
• 59:26
  know? That's how.
• 59:27
  I feel yeah. All these authors like getting
• 59:29
  with, signing with like the Big 5 and everything like I do.
• 59:33
  I am happy for them. But then it's kind of like it's
• 59:36
  hard to ignore that little voice inside that's like.
• 59:39
  I'm still not good enough. Like, what the heck?
• 59:41
  I just don't. I will say if they.
• 59:44
  I'll add to this as well. Like I I think the the biggest
• 59:47
  thing for me that really bugs me as well is like they'll be
• 59:49
  people who for example set up a podcast and they and you know
• 59:55
  within a few months they're they're already killing it and
• 59:58
  doing way better than me. Or people who set up a, I don't
• 1:00:01
  know like a Twitch channel and and they're doing really better
• 1:00:03
  than me. And I've been doing this like
• 1:00:05
  3-4 years so I'm not getting anywhere and I'm like.
• 1:00:09
  Damn, maybe I just really suck at this.
• 1:00:12
  But then I don't know, Like, I changed my attitude towards it
• 1:00:14
  because I didn't want to be like Captain Bitter and just sit
• 1:00:18
  there and be like, you know what I'm saying?
• 1:00:19
  Because that's a dark road to go down.
• 1:00:21
  Like they say, comparison is a thief of joy.
• 1:00:24
  And I know anyone listening to this will be like, oh, you just
• 1:00:27
  shouldn't do that, Christian. Yeah, you shouldn't.
• 1:00:29
  But you're going to do it because it's what us human
• 1:00:32
  beings do is if you're not where you want to be and you're
• 1:00:35
  desperately trying to get there. It sucks when you're not getting
• 1:00:39
  there, you know? And like when people say to me
• 1:00:41
  like, Oh well, you know, you're pursuing your passions and it's
• 1:00:44
  like, yeah, but I'm not achieving in my passions.
• 1:00:48
  Yeah, I'm pursuing them and I love doing this stuff, but I'm
• 1:00:51
  not where I want to be. I'm not who I see myself as.
• 1:00:55
  And I don't know, it's it's a it's a difficult one to swallow.
• 1:00:58
  But again, your attitude still has to be positive in despite of
• 1:01:03
  how you feel. You know, you have to kind of
• 1:01:05
  just keep doing it. And like, for instance, with
• 1:01:07
  this show, when I realized this show's about sharing stories,
• 1:01:11
  giving people hope, showing people like, hey, look, all
• 1:01:14
  these amazing human beings and all these amazing things they're
• 1:01:17
  doing, go and do the thing that you want to do.
• 1:01:20
  Yeah. And it's like, you know, the
• 1:01:22
  success is measured in such like fickle terms.
• 1:01:25
  So success might be measured by like signing on with some big
• 1:01:29
  label or, you know, getting a feature film.
• 1:01:31
  But I feel like. Who says that?
• 1:01:34
  The connections that you forge or the people that you encourage
• 1:01:37
  or the ways that you grow as a human?
• 1:01:39
  Who says that those are not successes?
• 1:01:41
  Because I'm giving a speech for my sister's nonprofit, actually,
• 1:01:45
  in just a couple days. And I've, like, agonized over
• 1:01:47
  this because I love writing articles.
• 1:01:50
  But, like, speaking in front of people, I'm always like, Oh my
• 1:01:53
  God, am I going to like? I don't know, get the hiccups or
• 1:01:56
  something's going to go wrong technologically because that's
• 1:01:58
  not my strong suit. And then I'll have like a
• 1:02:00
  meltdown and run off the stage like I'm on a fire or something.
• 1:02:03
  No. So I'm trying to prep myself,
• 1:02:05
  but the whole speech is about it's kind of, it captures my
• 1:02:10
  story as like a writer and sort of like the heartache that I
• 1:02:15
  experienced and then like finding my passion, which was
• 1:02:19
  never gone. It just I.
• 1:02:21
  I tucked it so deep down and I closed that door and I turned
• 1:02:24
  off the light. But it was always there.
• 1:02:25
  Like, it was always there, just kind of chipping away at me.
• 1:02:28
  And then eventually I just realized, like, I'm not doing
• 1:02:30
  this for, you know, the bigwigs in the publishing industry.
• 1:02:35
  I never did that. I'm doing this because I want to
• 1:02:37
  share stories and I want to, you know, get my own selfexpression
• 1:02:42
  and my own therapy through the stories.
• 1:02:45
  And so I think what I say in this speech is like.
• 1:02:48
  It took me so long to figure it out, but when I was in grad
• 1:02:51
  school we read this case study early on.
• 1:02:53
  So this is four years ago. We read this case study by all
• 1:02:58
  of these like psychologists, clinical psychologists, all
• 1:03:01
  these experts and researchers. And it said that the number one,
• 1:03:04
  according to the study, the number one indicator like the
• 1:03:07
  most telling factor of a person's overall well-being and
• 1:03:12
  like contentment in life. Their joy, I guess you could
• 1:03:16
  say. The number one consistent thread
• 1:03:18
  was that they felt they had a sense of purpose.
• 1:03:22
  And that inspired me to discover, like, okay.
• 1:03:25
  So what's my mission statement like?
• 1:03:27
  I'm working with all these nonprofits.
• 1:03:28
  I'm a social worker. I'm a flight tenant.
• 1:03:30
  But like, what's my personal mission statement?
• 1:03:32
  And when I wrote it out, nowhere in my mission statement did it
• 1:03:36
  say that I had to get the attention of a literary agent
• 1:03:40
  that I've never met, that like, has no bearing on, like, my
• 1:03:44
  being or my life. Like it just.
• 1:03:46
  Nowhere in my mission statement did it say that I had to impress
• 1:03:49
  people at the our high school 20th reunion by letting them
• 1:03:54
  know that I was like featured on Oprah or something like nowhere
• 1:03:57
  in my mission statement was that part of it.
• 1:03:59
  And so it helped me redefine and really hone in on my definition
• 1:04:05
  of success and who I want to be and the factors that like,
• 1:04:10
  embody my person and. Make me who I am and that
• 1:04:14
  hopefully are doing something really great in this world.
• 1:04:16
  And like my mission statement was basically to foster
• 1:04:21
  inclusion and healthy relationships and just like a
• 1:04:25
  positive relationship to humans and animals.
• 1:04:29
  So I can leave this place a little bit better than I found
• 1:04:31
  it. And if that's the case, then
• 1:04:33
  like if no one had ever wanted to publish my book, I can still
• 1:04:38
  do that. I can volunteer.
• 1:04:40
  At local L GB TQ Plus centers and my books really foster sense
• 1:04:44
  of inclusion and the main characters bisexual.
• 1:04:47
  And I can maybe help someone feel a little bit less alone so
• 1:04:51
  they don't have to wait 30-6 years before they feel seen and
• 1:04:54
  heard. So like none of my goals.
• 1:04:56
  As much as I love writing and I love the idea of being a
• 1:04:59
  published author, like none of them revolved around the visions
• 1:05:04
  for success that I had been comparing myself to and berating
• 1:05:07
  myself over. Yeah, no, I totally agree, man.
• 1:05:11
  I mean, this is what I was saying before about, you know,
• 1:05:15
  trying to shift the way you look at it and still keep it
• 1:05:18
  positive. Like as much as I still do look
• 1:05:21
  at things like numbers and success at the same time, you
• 1:05:25
  know, my goals are more like, I just want to do this for a
• 1:05:29
  living. My goal isn't, oh, I just want
• 1:05:31
  to be a big old movie star or I want to have the big, biggest,
• 1:05:34
  most successful podcast ever. Like, sure, those things would
• 1:05:37
  be a brilliant, but at the end of the day, like it's I've set
• 1:05:41
  myself like realistic goals that I want to achieve.
• 1:05:44
  And I I'm very thankful and amazed that there's like a
• 1:05:48
  handful of people that clock in every week and check out these
• 1:05:52
  podcasts. I'll come back to them later on
• 1:05:54
  and make a point of doing that. That blows my mind and it
• 1:06:00
  continues to and I always think about that because I think and
• 1:06:03
  this is the thing as well, the reason I want more people to
• 1:06:06
  hear this show is not because I'm so obsessed with the numbers
• 1:06:09
  that I really want it to do well.
• 1:06:10
  I want more people to hear it because I want people to be as
• 1:06:13
  motivated and. Fascinated and yeah, inspired as
• 1:06:20
  I am. Like, every time I do this show,
• 1:06:22
  I walk out of it like, wow, that was great.
• 1:06:24
  I love that I got XY&Z out of it.
• 1:06:27
  I had a great conversation with someone.
• 1:06:29
  I learned a bunch of stuff and it keeps me going.
• 1:06:33
  People like yourself motivate me to keep.
• 1:06:35
  Doing what I'm doing and it's like, I want other people to
• 1:06:39
  feel that energy, feel that. Because I can tell you now as
• 1:06:43
  well, like when guests come off my show as well, they often say
• 1:06:45
  like, I love that I felt good. I got something out of it and
• 1:06:48
  I'm like brilliant because that's what it should be.
• 1:06:50
  It shouldn't just be. Mutually encouraging, right?
• 1:06:53
  Like I think so. Yeah, I love and that is what it
• 1:06:57
  should be. That's what, in my opinion, like
• 1:06:59
  that is what all art is, right? Art in general is.
• 1:07:04
  Forging these connections or somehow, like just strengthening
• 1:07:08
  these bonds that allow people to feel like included and
• 1:07:15
  understood and in some way allow them to feel more free to be
• 1:07:22
  exactly who they are and who they're meant to be.
• 1:07:24
  And I feel like you. You achieved that.
• 1:07:26
  Like, it would be great. It would be.
• 1:07:28
  I mean, look, I'm in the same boat.
• 1:07:30
  Do you know how many animals I could save if I signed on with
• 1:07:32
  one of the Big 5 publishers? Like, let me tell you, every
• 1:07:35
  time I play the lottery here, I'm like, oh, I will buy like
• 1:07:41
  the size of a city and it's going to be a sanctuary for all
• 1:07:43
  the cats and dogs. Like, yeah, I can do so much if
• 1:07:46
  I signed on with the Big 5 and, you know, had kind of whatever
• 1:07:50
  it is, the connections, the timing like.
• 1:07:52
  The plot that these people have that, like get these amazing
• 1:07:56
  deals, but I feel like even without that or without that at
• 1:08:02
  the moment, like there's still so much good that we can do.
• 1:08:06
  And that's why I really do think it's so important to celebrate
• 1:08:10
  the wins. Because I think if you get hung
• 1:08:12
  up on I, I get it. Like I compare myself to and
• 1:08:15
  then I try to catch myself, but like, if you get hung up on.
• 1:08:19
  The losses or kind of like the perceived shortcomings or the
• 1:08:24
  comparative failures, right Then it's like you're just never
• 1:08:29
  going to move forward. You're you can so easily just
• 1:08:32
  get stuck in that mud, right? It's so easy to get sucked into
• 1:08:35
  that. So yeah, I love your optimism.
• 1:08:37
  I feel like we still have so much amazing, so many amazing
• 1:08:43
  things that we can achieve and we're on our way, like we're
• 1:08:46
  moving forward. I I kind of look at it like this
• 1:08:49
  as well. Like OK, if you take my podcast
• 1:08:51
  as an example, right, I set myself a goal that I would do
• 1:08:54
  this show for 10 years because I started in 2020.
• 1:08:57
  I thought, oh, I'd be kind of cool cover a decade.
• 1:09:00
  You know, just and let's see where we're at.
• 1:09:03
  You know that that'd be interesting.
• 1:09:04
  And I'm three years in and to be honest, I love the show more
• 1:09:08
  than I enjoyed it at first. I think I think more because I
• 1:09:12
  now. Have like a clear goal with it.
• 1:09:15
  I know what I want to achieve with it.
• 1:09:16
  I I enjoy it more because at the beginning it was just like, you
• 1:09:21
  know, like, oh, I just need another guest.
• 1:09:23
  Oh, I need another guest. Oh, I need another guest.
• 1:09:25
  It wasn't really like, I still loved it, but it didn't.
• 1:09:28
  It felt quite formulaic. And it's taken time to kind of
• 1:09:32
  develop, for example, a more laid back, conversational style
• 1:09:35
  show as opposed to just a straight up interview.
• 1:09:39
  Sometimes they are interviews, you know, that just happens.
• 1:09:42
  But like. Every time it's a challenge in
• 1:09:46
  much the same way that just having a general conversation
• 1:09:48
  with another human being, sometimes it's challenging, you
• 1:09:51
  know, not everyone you meet with you're going to click with or
• 1:09:54
  sometimes you try and find ways to click with said people.
• 1:09:58
  And it's it's not always that straightforward, but I think
• 1:10:02
  what I was going to say is that like if I do this show long
• 1:10:06
  enough and I do enough episodes, surely at some point it's got to
• 1:10:11
  pick up something. Like, I can't.
• 1:10:14
  If we get to 10 years and I I still have only reached like say
• 1:10:18
  5-10 people a week, I I guess I'll just laugh and be like, you
• 1:10:22
  know what, That was the greatest, most fun failure of
• 1:10:26
  all time. But you don't.
• 1:10:28
  Reach 5 or 10 people a week. Absolutely, absolutely.
• 1:10:31
  My books on my blog. That was kind of like my last
• 1:10:34
  resort if I, you know, don't go the self-publishing route.
• 1:10:37
  If no one will publish my books, I just post my blog.
• 1:10:39
  Even if you have. Just one person.
• 1:10:42
  And that person could also be you person that benefited from
• 1:10:45
  like writing them. But if you have Even so much as
• 1:10:47
  like one person that you have touched through that, then I
• 1:10:50
  believe it's an effort worth taking, right?
• 1:10:53
  Like it doesn't have to be a major.
• 1:10:55
  It would be great if it was a major presence and if it was
• 1:10:59
  this like grand sweeping victory, that's so clear.
• 1:11:02
  But at the same time I think if you're even if you're if your
• 1:11:07
  subscribership was literally three or four people like.
• 1:11:11
  Those are still three or four people that you are potentially
• 1:11:14
  helping and they come back because they enjoy it and I.
• 1:11:17
  And that that by the way, that's the biggest part of it.
• 1:11:19
  We I've spoken to a few guests about this lately, but this idea
• 1:11:22
  that like people that return, so you could have like 10,000
• 1:11:27
  people watch you one week and then the next week.
• 1:11:30
  Maybe only like 100 people watch you, but if those same 100
• 1:11:33
  people keep watching, that's so much more valuable than if one
• 1:11:37
  episode gets a lot 1 episode doesn't like I've.
• 1:11:39
  I've noticed this on on my episodes as well, that some get
• 1:11:42
  slightly more than others, and I think that's because people from
• 1:11:45
  that particular person's community came over and checked
• 1:11:48
  it out or whatever. Or maybe it just got a bit more
• 1:11:50
  traction because it's an interesting topic, right?
• 1:11:54
  But then there's the people that stay and that are there every
• 1:11:57
  single time and that. Is magic that's that blows my
• 1:12:03
  mind. I can't understand.
• 1:12:04
  And I've said this on my Patreon stuff as well and in the live
• 1:12:07
  streams, but like this, I can't believe that anyone would want
• 1:12:10
  to sit and listen to me for that long.
• 1:12:13
  But I'm not really. Lucky do thank you for coming
• 1:12:15
  back. There you go.
• 1:12:15
  So thank you. Thank you for listening and
• 1:12:17
  watching guys. But back to you, I want to ask
• 1:12:20
  you a couple of questions that I ask every single guest, because
• 1:12:24
  I reckon you'll have some good answers for these.
• 1:12:27
  What's the best advice you've ever received?
• 1:12:31
  So I think the best advice that I've ever received is something
• 1:12:39
  that was told to me in college, actually by a good friend,
• 1:12:44
  because I was so neurotic and like trying to get you know, 4.0
• 1:12:48
  and do all these like a million things at once.
• 1:12:51
  And anyway, I was told, and I'm sure this quote originates from
• 1:12:56
  somewhere, but I never looked it up because I like to do this
• 1:12:58
  like. Trace it back to my friend in
• 1:13:00
  that moment. But like, you don't have to
• 1:13:05
  measure your own success using someone else's ruler.
• 1:13:09
  Like, I love that. Like, it's not someone else's
• 1:13:11
  ruler that defines. Like if I get a B in this one
• 1:13:14
  class. But you know, I say 4 kittens
• 1:13:16
  that were found on the campus like that is every bit as worthy
• 1:13:21
  as, you know, getting that A would have been.
• 1:13:24
  So yeah, I loved that. Like, you don't have to measure.
• 1:13:27
  Your own worth, or your own success, or your own value based
• 1:13:30
  like using someone else's toolkit, right?
• 1:13:35
  Yeah, and I think another thing as well that just I'm touching
• 1:13:38
  on the whole kind of comparison is the Thief of Joy thing.
• 1:13:42
  A lot of the time when I do find myself thinking about like this
• 1:13:45
  person is doing better than me or I often tend to, when I pull
• 1:13:49
  myself back and realize what I'm doing, I'm like, yeah, but this
• 1:13:52
  person leads a completely different life and you don't
• 1:13:55
  see. The struggle and everything and
• 1:13:58
  the rejection and everything that they face, Yeah, yeah, to
• 1:14:00
  get it to that point, you have no idea.
• 1:14:02
  Yeah. So, yeah, yeah, it's
• 1:14:05
  interesting. So.
• 1:14:06
  It's like you're comparing things that weren't even similar
• 1:14:08
  to begin with, right? So like drawing a comparison
• 1:14:12
  that makes you feel really crappy, but it's like it wasn't
• 1:14:14
  even like a level playing field, it was 2 totally different
• 1:14:18
  things. So the comparison itself is
• 1:14:20
  flawed too, right? It's only what we see, It's only
• 1:14:23
  what we like, perceive. Yeah.
• 1:14:27
  What's the biggest life lesson you've learned so far?
• 1:14:30
  The biggest life lesson I have learned is that when folks and I
• 1:14:35
  believe this in my soul, but like when folks try really hard
• 1:14:41
  to contain parts of themselves. For me being part of that
• 1:14:47
  religious organization and feeling.
• 1:14:50
  So deeply flawed for so many years because I'm bisexual and
• 1:14:54
  like feeling like I had to hide that I had to be ashamed of it
• 1:14:59
  until the moment where I left. But like, I see it over and over
• 1:15:02
  with like clients and patients and friends and coworkers.
• 1:15:05
  Like hiding a part of yourself to appease anyone else, from
• 1:15:11
  what I've seen, only leads to suffering.
• 1:15:14
  A myriad of suffering. There's so many ways that people
• 1:15:17
  suffer, but like. Psychological torment or anxiety
• 1:15:21
  because they now have to like fake this thing in front of
• 1:15:25
  family and friends or just like the worry that loved ones are
• 1:15:29
  going to abandon them all of these things like because they
• 1:15:33
  feel they have to hide A portion of themselves, whatever that is.
• 1:15:36
  I think a lot of times from what I've seen, it is sexuality
• 1:15:38
  because that's something that isn't like race, where you can
• 1:15:41
  just like kind of see it visually.
• 1:15:43
  It's something that's intrinsic and.
• 1:15:46
  I think a lot of people feel forced to kind of hide it.
• 1:15:48
  Or they see the laws being enacted and they think, Oh my
• 1:15:51
  God, I'm going to be persecuted if I come out, things like that.
• 1:15:54
  But there are other ways that people can hide who they are.
• 1:15:56
  It could just be like the person that doesn't fit a gender role
• 1:15:59
  and doesn't want to be a stay at home mom, or like the person
• 1:16:02
  that wants to be a stay at home dad that thinks everyone's going
• 1:16:04
  to laugh at him or whatever it is, right?
• 1:16:06
  I think from what I have seen, that when we tuck away those
• 1:16:13
  pieces of ourselves. That make us the person that we
• 1:16:16
  are. I have not seen any good come
• 1:16:18
  out of it ever, ever. I've seen it lead to a massive
• 1:16:22
  suffering. I've seen it blow up in dramatic
• 1:16:25
  ways down the road. I have not ever seen any benefit
• 1:16:28
  to trying to fit some mold that has been crafted for you.
• 1:16:33
  And if you lose people in the end, like and I have, I have
• 1:16:36
  seen people that have lost people when they finally are
• 1:16:39
  true to who they are. But.
• 1:16:42
  As painful as that is, as difficult as it is, I still
• 1:16:45
  think, and I think most of them would tell you this as well,
• 1:16:49
  that like that agony is worth the freedom to be who they are
• 1:16:54
  and to meet the folks that love them for that right.
• 1:16:59
  Couldn't agree more. Do you have any upcoming
• 1:17:01
  projects or final thoughts that you'd like to share with our
• 1:17:04
  listeners? Final thoughts.
• 1:17:09
  Yes, I do have upcoming projects, but I'm just, I'm
• 1:17:10
  working on that book and then I would like to maybe start my own
• 1:17:13
  nonprofit someday to save more animals.
• 1:17:15
  But right now I love working with the nonprofits I work with
• 1:17:17
  and I'm content. So if that doesn't happen, you
• 1:17:20
  know, we're just going to wait and see how it plays out.
• 1:17:22
  But anyway, my recommendation would be to maybe start thinking
• 1:17:30
  about ways that you could just improve your.
• 1:17:35
  Kindness factor because it's really little and it doesn't
• 1:17:38
  have to be dramatic steps, right?
• 1:17:39
  Like, it doesn't. I don't preach to people I know
• 1:17:42
  I said it on here because I was trying to prove a point with
• 1:17:44
  something I was saying, but like, I don't tell people I'm a
• 1:17:46
  vegetarian. I don't want to be pegged.
• 1:17:48
  One of those people that, like, beats people over the head with
• 1:17:50
  like pamphlets about being a vegan.
• 1:17:52
  I make that choice for me, and other people are free to make
• 1:17:55
  whatever choice. I've done a lot of research.
• 1:17:56
  I watched documentaries. I read like all these books
• 1:17:59
  about how animals are treated in this country.
• 1:18:02
  And what we are doing to the earth.
• 1:18:03
  And I made my own decision, right?
• 1:18:05
  But like, it doesn't have to be that there can be so many ways.
• 1:18:09
  If that includes just, you know, taking your kids to volunteer
• 1:18:14
  someplace instead of doing like your normal Saturday like
• 1:18:20
  leisure routine. Or if that involves maybe just
• 1:18:23
  making, like slight tweaks to either what.
• 1:18:28
  You're wearing or eating or anything.
• 1:18:30
  I just think there are so many small ways that we can increase
• 1:18:35
  our compassion factor, and I would encourage folks to see
• 1:18:39
  what that looks like for them. And there's no formula.
• 1:18:41
  There's no right or wrong answer.
• 1:18:43
  It could literally be something as simple as, like when I get so
• 1:18:47
  mad at my spouse, I kind of just like.
• 1:18:51
  Emotionally flee the scene. And I'm like, okay, We're just
• 1:18:53
  going to, like, decompress and watch a movie because I can't
• 1:18:55
  talk to you right now. And like, recognizing that in me
• 1:18:58
  and learning to communicate that better.
• 1:19:00
  It can be something that small but like, increasing your
• 1:19:03
  compassion factor. I think even the tiniest ways,
• 1:19:07
  just they're so fulfilling and then seeing like kind of the
• 1:19:12
  miracles that can be achieved in like all of these small moments.
• 1:19:15
  So yeah. And adopt.
• 1:19:17
  Adopt, adopt, adopt. Don't shop, don't shop, don't do
• 1:19:19
  it. It breaks my heart.
• 1:19:20
  I wish breeding was illegal. I know there are people that
• 1:19:22
  will disagree with me but until all the animals are saved I wish
• 1:19:26
  breeding was illegal. Until then.
• 1:19:27
  Then we can breed them. But like adopt.
• 1:19:30
  And also if you have room in your heart for two amazing cats
• 1:19:35
  that I'm obsessed with. My fosters need a home.
• 1:19:37
  And yes they are a little bit older but let me tell you their
• 1:19:39
  personalities. Amazing.
• 1:19:43
  This one is my snuggle. My snuggle girl.
• 1:19:45
  She holds me in a hug. Whenever she's like on my lap,
• 1:19:48
  she has to hug me. She's so cute and her brother's
• 1:19:51
  like a beautiful Siamese and their dad died, so here they
• 1:19:55
  are, not the shelter, thank God. And I'll fly it anywhere.
• 1:19:59
  Well, almost anywhere. Almost anywhere.
• 1:20:04
  Thank you so much for appearing on the show.
• 1:20:05
  It's been an absolute pleasure talking with you about just,
• 1:20:08
  yeah, everything that you do, honestly.
• 1:20:10
  Just keep it up, keep up the brilliant work.
• 1:20:13
  Thank you. And likewise and hold your head
• 1:20:15
  up high because let me tell you, I get it.
• 1:20:17
  It's, it's brutal out there. But I feel that what we are
• 1:20:20
  doing, it's meaningful and I think that it's impactful and we
• 1:20:24
  just got to keep our eyes like trained on that.
• 1:20:27
  And just remember that when things feel kind of like
• 1:20:30
  intimidating, just, I don't know, you're making magic.
• 1:20:34
  It doesn't have to be a grand dramatic gesture, but you're
• 1:20:36
  doing it. So keep it up and thank you for
• 1:20:38
  this opportunity. It's been great.
• 1:20:40
  Thank you and to the listeners of the Christian Reed podcast, I
• 1:20:43
  hope you enjoyed this one as much as I did.
• 1:20:47
  Until next time, be safe, be well, and I'll see you in the
• 1:20:50
  next one.