Latest / Authentic Living / Faith, Resilience, and Leadership: John Robertson on Navigating Change and Relational Currency

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Faith, Resilience, and Leadership: John Robertson on Navigating Change and Relational Currency · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to Authentic Living with Roxanne, a place where we have conscious conversations
• 0:08
  about things that really matter in our lives.
• 0:12
  And now here's your host, Roxanne Durhaj.
• 0:40
  Everyone, it's Roxanne Dorhodch.
• 0:42
  Thanks for tuning in again today to Authentic Living with Roxanne.
• 0:46
  Today, I have a colleague, r Robertson, and he helps senior leaders navigate crises.
• 0:53
  So, John, welcome to the podcast.
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  Thank you so much for having me, and I'm looking forward to being an encourager for your
• 1:00
  listeners.
• 1:00
  So appreciate it, Roxanne, very much.
• 1:02
  Thank you.
• 1:03
  So let me just tell you a little bit about John, and, you'll get the gist of what John
• 1:08
  does.
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  He's the author of two bestselling books, Run Towards the Roar and Living the I am in the I
• 1:15
  have culture.
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  He's coauthored bestselling book, Elevator and Empower Insights on Personal Growth,
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  Resilience, and Transformation.
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  He's a workplace wellness expert and cultural alignment specialist with over thirty years of
• 1:28
  experience helping corp corporations and individuals navigate every kind of crisis.
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  So, John, let's just talk a little bit about what got you on this path to being where you
• 1:41
  are today.
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  What where did you start this path off?
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  I guess if I'm gonna be really honest, I'm a bit of a magnet.
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  So if garbage happens, it's gonna be in my circle sphere.
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  There's two ways to live.
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  Right?
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  One is the if only
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  Mhmm.
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  That hindsight or the what if.
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  And a lot of people get caught on those and the problem that people have is we forget that life
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  has an if in the middle.
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  So, we're not going to get rid of the if.
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  We have to choose to live by faith or by fear.
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  And so, I got started in it by a whole bunch of those kinds of things kept happening and you
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  eat, I either turtled or okay, that didn't go according to plan.
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  Now, how do I grow forward?
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  And because I'm not a big fan of fixing or diagnosing people, it's when people would get
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  what I would call a Charlie horse, be it psychological, emotional, spiritual, moral,
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  relational Charlie horse.
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  I didn't try and fix.
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  I just listened and walked through some okay.
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  So what do you wanna do to get your head back in the game?
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  And I actually really enjoyed it and typical.
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  Okay.
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  I should probably get training in it.
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  And you know how many times we start doing something?
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  And and that's the way I'm wired.
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  Like, I I love helping working with people, and whether it be individuals or organizations or
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  leaders to stop doing whack a mole, start doing stop doing Groundhog Day and just never ending
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  series of programs.
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  What about leaning forward, leaning into the harness so that when we fail, we fail forward?
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  Yeah.
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  Because oftentimes, it's so reactive.
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  John and I have had, I would say, similar corporate kind of trajectories.
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  And a a lot of times in my capacity as an executive at health and wellness strategy, we
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  would be called in because this team is, you know, there's an arbitration lots of
• 3:52
  arbitrations happening.
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  There's been a trauma response and we've responded, but we have a couple of people that
• 3:59
  are still not getting along.
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  Right?
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  Then you go in, you do your thing.
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  Right, John?
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  And then the company goes, oh, that's good.
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  Everybody's back to normal.
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  Productivity's back.
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  And then what we find is that's clearly, like you said, you know, playing whack a mole or
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  plugging that hole, which is oftentimes not the real root cause of what's happening.
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  Just to build off of that in a very real, just happened this past weekend.
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  A guy was did his training for the week, trying to come home on a Saturday, stopped for
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  something they told me, I don't remember what it was, And he died suddenly as a result of a
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  heart attack.
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  Wow.
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  And so he didn't make his kids baseball game.
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  But then it's a smaller community, smaller organization as well.
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  And all of a sudden, now, what do we do?
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  Because this guy, I'll call him Fred.
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  It's not his real name but Fred was incredibly popular, always willing to help, always rolled
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  up his sleeves kind of person.
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  And now, what do we do?
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  So, all the senior leaders, their heads are spinning because Fred would be the guy that
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  they would call had this happened.
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  Right.
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  So, story short, I got connected to it and well, somebody connected me to them and I said,
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  first thing I gotta ask you is, if your goal is to put a band aid on this cut, I'm out.
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  Because it'll be two months down the road when his wife and kids and others, their life's gone
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  back to normal.
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  The people directly walloped.
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  Their life has no normal to go back to as if that was what they were gonna do.
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  Yeah.
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  And I think the average leader thinks that so long as we get the support, on the ground
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  within seventy two hours, kinda like with all the data says, and we get people that have been
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  through other losses, all those things.
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  And then what happens is that in fact everybody will go back to normal.
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  And when I know that's in fact not the case.
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  Isn't that a perfect I saw you.
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  So I think
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  Isn't that a perfect illustration, though, Roxanne, of what happens?
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  And to illustrate and I know people are tired of the pandemic talk, but listen to the way
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  people now view it.
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  For years, we heard, well, when things go back to normal, when things go back to normal.
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  And all of us on the other side of COVID, the pandemic, we all realized that Norm died during
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  the pandemic.
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  There is no going back to Norm.
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  Maybe we need to name that Norm a new name because, like, again, here we are.
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  Absolutely.
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  2025.
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  And here we thought, oh, once we once we got past the pandemic and we know that most people
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  are still anxious or depressed, you know, isolated and not functioning well again.
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  But we kind of blipped over that and we kind of went along life and we got the you know 75 or
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  65% productivity.
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  This is kind of what we can expect And then we get walloped with other things going on
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  politically.
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  And now it's, woah, this pandemic was like, you mean there's other things like this coming?
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  I was just talking with a couple different professions.
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  And one of the things that's been a huge shift for them for years, their profession, one of
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  them was the funeral service.
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  Their profession was ten, twenty years of service.
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  If they didn't finish their entire career in it, that's just the kind of funeral director.
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  Now, they're talking five years and then they go on to something else.
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  If we're serious about keeping people's heads in the game, I'm not a fan of banging on
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  leaders' heads Cause that doesn't change anything.
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  Flip side of that is how people and organizations respond to people through pivotal
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  critical moments.
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  Mhmm.
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  Either keeps them longer or one of two things.
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  They resign, they may not leave, or they leave.
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  And, John, I think it when we think of it as big crises, it's, oh, we gotta do something.
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  But oftentimes, it's the little the little ones, like the man you're saying that was, I'm
• 9:01
  gonna say, such a center of reference.
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  And he probably was allied to a lot of people, and we might gloss over that.
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  And that sometimes ends up being more a more critical mass to an environment because that
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  demonstrates if you don't address it the right way, it means, like, if he was so well liked
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  and nothing was done to address what happened to him, I'm just little old me that kinda I'm
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  kinda
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  super
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  polite, but I'm nothing too special like he was.
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  What does that mean about me if anything were to ever happen to me?
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  Would I not be addressed?
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  Right?
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  Well, perfect illustration of this is that the educational, the tagline, whatever I use, is
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  the event is never the real crisis.
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  And quite often to your comment, we can overreact to the big ones.
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  And if we react, we underreact to the stone in the shoe, to the little ones.
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  But the event is never the real crisis.
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  And any organization leader or person who forgets that is automatically gonna cause some
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  of their own headaches or heartaches.
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  So when you when you go in and you're called in and Yep.
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  Let's say people have some knowledge of what we're talking about.
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  Right?
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  Like Sure.
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  Yep.
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  It's you have to address concerns.
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  But they're like, you know what?
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  I'm not really completely bought into this, John.
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  Maybe big, needs 10 times.
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  Maybe small, maybe one or two.
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  But you kind of go in and you're having that strategic conversation to kind of have them
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  look at the impact of if it's done well and if it's not done well.
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  What how do you wade through that when you're having a conversation with a company?
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  So actually a relatively simple process.
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  So if you picture key benchmarks, there's an event, whatever it is.
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  Then there is obviously the reactions.
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  And the quickest way that that'll show up in the workplace is some form of decline in
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  productivity.
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  It could be an attendance.
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  It could be actual output.
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  It could be an increase in children throwing sand in the sandbox.
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  Whatever we wanna call that behavior in the workplace.
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  So, we do the intervention.
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  So, there's an event, productivity declines, we do the intervention.
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  Create all these ideas, thinking, and so forth But then what starts to happen is there's
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  dissension always.
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  And dissension is a simple whatever tug of war moment where the walk and the talk don't match.
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  And expectations don't align with what's delivered.
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  And in an organization anchored in values or supported by values.
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  Not the ones on the website.
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  I'm talking about actual operational ones.
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  What happens is then they move it from dissension into a program.
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  Oh, okay.
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  Well, people are not playing well together at the workplace.
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  So, let's do productive conflict resolution or let's do a leadership program or whatever.
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  There's all kinds of programs that get offered and the result is dissension grows because
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  there's more skepticism.
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  Oh, great.
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  Now, they're putting a band aid on a cut juggler.
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  Right, right.
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  And what comes out of that is often institutionalized which is a really fancy way
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  of saying, your well-being is so important to me, us, that I've written another policy.
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  I've written another procedure.
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  That's the normal progression and the result of that is engagement, well-being, so forth start
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  to decline.
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  And the goal becomes survival.
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  When an organization is values based leadership led, then, the support is offered at the exact
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  same points.
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  So, support is offered at the intervention.
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  So, what do we need to do next?
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  We need to do a program on how to have conversations so that people are willing to
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  talk and I know how to listen effectively, not as a counselor.
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  That's not the goal And then when the dissension happens, instead of saying, this is
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  how we do it here.
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  Because it's values based, the organization and leaders can actually evaluate where the
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  dissension is coming from.
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  And the result is moves into the five core pieces I call shift rap.
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  And yes, you have to say that with clear diction.
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  But but the shift are the five pieces.
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  The leadership, the values, the intervention, what's the plan when the plan doesn't work?
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  What does success mean in your organization?
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  What we're not gonna keep everybody happy, healthy, and engaged at work.
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  We're dealing with human beings.
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  So what does success mean?
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  And what does leadership mean?
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  If I was new to English and you were talking about this leadership, leading, leader.
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  What do you mean?
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  And most people default.
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  I shouldn't say most.
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  Many people default to, well, title or position.
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  That's the worst thing through a critical moment because it's about trust and respect and
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  credibility and, if you will, followability even if they're not always likable.
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  Absolutely.
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  It's just about the humanness of things at that point.
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  Humanness.
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  Absolutely.
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  I remember years ago attending as a first responder to a critical situation.
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  It was in a one of high end hotel.
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  And when I was doing the debriefings within the seventy two hours, and the CEO showed up at the
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  beginning of every one of them just to show his presence for a second, just to say, I'm here.
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  I support you in whatever you need, which was such a gentle it it it didn't seem contrived or
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  anything like that.
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  He didn't take much time.
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  He didn't wanna take away from the process or anything like that.
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  And I thought, you know, what an intuitive, smart, thing to do to be able to show people
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  that I am I understand this.
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  It was because a patron one patron who would check-in once every month, same suite, for
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  years and years, John, had committed suicide on property.
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  Wow.
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  So everybody, quote, unquote, got to know that person.
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  It was very private because it was a high end kind of place.
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  Privacy was key.
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  So people knew this person.
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  The CEO knew of this per and then they one of one day, obviously, they came, and they had
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  been obviously planning and they committed suicide on on-site.
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  But, again, going back to that element to your point, what I love about what you're saying is
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  it's kinda like forget what's hanging on the wall, forget whose CEO, whose frontline staff,
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  whose customer service in that moment.
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  It's just we are in it together, and we're all having something happen and how could
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  we And we're all humans.
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  And so one of the things that you just perfectly described is part of the shift that's
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  happening, which is so exciting.
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  It's long overdue.
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  Younger people and whatever that means anymore, I don't know.
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  But younger people are
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  no longer enough fit that category, I
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  I put highlights in for purpose.
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  I see that.
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  I saw that that silvery.
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  Yeah.
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  Sparkle.
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  Yeah.
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  Nice high.
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  And so what's happening in the workplace is they're not staying for pensions and benefits.
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  And I think it's phenomenal.
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  I think it's long overdue.
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  Because listening to people, well, I've only got five years, four months, and eight hours
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  left until I can retire.
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  Where's the job satisfaction in that?
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  Where's the motivation?
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  And tying it to well-being and health.
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  Pressing through things doesn't isn't gonna make us healthier.
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  And and I quote, back in the day when we called people mister and missus, our minister growing
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  up, his name was mister Newton and I remember meeting him when he was dying and so he was on
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  morphine for pain and I was about 17 and he said, don't forget, John.
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  In a world of presence, people need presence and I looked at him and I 17.
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  I'm thinking, you got a little too much morphine going here and he obviously read my
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  look and he said, smiled and he said, no, John.
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  It's not the morphine.
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  In a world of P R E S E N T S, people need P R E S E N C E.
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  And people can fix and diagnose and all those things.
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  And sometimes most often there's no fix.
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  And so therefore what they need is just our presence.
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  Not listening to reply, all those other cliches as a leader, as an organization.
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  How do you get your best out of your people?
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  How do you help them engage?
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  Show them that what they do matters.
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  You know, it doesn't matter to me whether it's the front person at the counter, the admin, the
• 19:00
  custodian.
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  I don't care the title because I may never meet the person with the title but by the time I've
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  met all the other personnel, I've already got a picture of what it means to be in your
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  organization.
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  Absolutely and that what a what a profound statement for you to have received at such a
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  it steered so much of my life, my career because I don't come in to fix, to diagnose, to
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  it's okay.
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  So help me to understand.
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  What's going on?
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  And I think when you can listen at that profound level, people would really they open
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  up because there's no end point in mind.
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  They're just like Absolutely.
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  Trying to understand what's happening, what the actual pulse of the organization is.
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  A perfect illustration of this is happening now all the time with our virtual meetings.
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  So as you're talking, I'm doing the and it's okay.
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  John's already stopped listening.
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  So, John, tell us tell us a little bit about the books and when the listeners buy a copy,
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  what they might experience, Run Towards a Roar and the living I am and I and K.
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  In So let me I have culture.
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  So let me interrupt and so let me take two pieces.
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  So run toward the roar is the foundation.
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  So it's the book that requires the thinking and work.
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  So, the term I invented in that is called Pasio Fidelis.
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  Pasio is the root word of passion and Fidelis is the root word of fidelity, of faithfulness,
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  of loyalty.
• 20:47
  Mhmm.
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  So when life gives us a roar, animal instinct in humans are animal as well.
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  Animal instinct is fight, flight, freeze, appease.
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  Most of us will run away from the roar instinctively.
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  When we know what our values are, when we know what really motivates us, not something on a
• 21:11
  website, in a brochure, but the things we want said about us, either at our funeral or when
• 21:17
  we're not in the room.
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  Those values are the motivation, the Pasio that we will make a commitment to be loyal to when
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  the roar happens.
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  Hence, the subtitle, transforming crisis and change into the opportunity to thrive.
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  And there's nothing worse to it for a human being to finish in a way or to succeed in a way
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  that doesn't matter in the long run.
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  So, that's the first is run toward the roar ethos.
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  The second one book is living the I am in an I have culture.
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  Being the leader, being the person that people can trust through critical moments.
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  And so what happens in those critical moments is what's inside.
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  Look just like a teabag in hot water.
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  What's inside always leaks out.
• 22:14
  Mhmm.
• 22:15
  When I do my work, when you do your work before those hot water moments, we're not destroyed or
• 22:23
  eroded by what's inside because we've been working on it.
• 22:28
  So, the term that I invented for that book is Persona Octaritas.
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  Persona is the term that's used for that character, that image that we portray.
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  Octaritas is the Latin is the root word that we have authority, power, prestige in today's
• 22:49
  marketing terms.
• 22:50
  It's called our brand.
• 22:51
  So, when I am working on, how do I want you to describe me non physically?
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  Can you trust me?
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  Can you respect me?
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  Can you follow me even if you don't always like me?
• 23:05
  And the I am book is different than I have because you and I were chatting about this
• 23:13
  previously.
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  I have a bachelor's degree.
• 23:16
  I have a master's degree.
• 23:17
  I have twenty years of experience.
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  I have.
• 23:20
  Yeah.
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  And through critical moments, that kind of leader is not trusted, respected, or followed.
• 23:27
  Absolutely.
• 23:28
  Because the very essence of that person is resonating through even more so when there's
• 23:33
  something critical that's happening.
• 23:35
  We're reading and oftentimes it's not words.
• 23:37
  Right?
• 23:37
  It's we're just in a state where I I think that's where the element of humanness comes out
• 23:43
  and the rawness of feeling.
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  And if you're not, like you said, in that space where you can hold that space for people,
• 23:52
  they're gonna go, what's he or she doing?
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  And to your point about dissension, and they go, what does what do teams go back and they
• 24:00
  do?
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  They say, did you see what John said when this happened?
• 24:03
  Did you notice what happened?
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  And there was a kind of a x y z happening, and then they start to kinda create these little
• 24:09
  pods of toxicity that gets, you know, described.
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  And that's the like you said, that's the culture that permeates.
• 24:16
  And then then productive when either where there's more conflict, where why there's more
• 24:22
  arbitrations, why they don't care about getting things done online.
• 24:27
  That's the thing that a lot of times we try to quantify, which is tough to do.
• 24:32
  Right?
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  Isn't that the truth?
• 24:34
  Yep.
• 24:35
  Yep.
• 24:35
  Actually, one of my keynotes, so some of the things I do are keynote speaking, but one of
• 24:40
  the keynotes is the formula, TLC equals RC.
• 24:45
  So TLC is not what it used to mean.
• 24:48
  Today, it's about trust, leadership, and communication is never what's said.
• 24:53
  It's always what's heard.
• 24:55
  But TLC equals RC, relational currency.
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  Mhmm.
• 25:00
  And what you just perfectly described is relational currency.
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  Those relationships that are in overdraft if you will.
• 25:07
  They're in debit position versus the relationships that have huge currency because
• 25:15
  they're in a credit position and you we could turn to them no matter what was going on and
• 25:20
  know that they would have our back not be focused on trying to knife us.
• 25:26
  Like you described those little pods of conversations.
• 25:31
  It becomes like the children's broken telephone game where those little conversations start to
• 25:40
  grow and they take on their own life.
• 25:43
  Yeah.
• 25:43
  They take away from productivity because people are just not feeling validated.
• 25:47
  They're feeling disconnected.
• 25:48
  They're not feeling cared for, which is such a pivotal thing.
• 25:52
  And I think of my own trajectory in my career, John, and it's so true.
• 25:57
  Right?
• 25:57
  Like the leaders that I would have walked on water for some of them, because they just were
• 26:03
  so good.
• 26:04
  And it was like, I'm trying to think, did they like, of course they taught me things but it
• 26:09
  was just because I elevated and special and I could be who Roxanne was in that person's
• 26:16
  presence and I'm talking about high level positions and wherever I was coming from it was
• 26:22
  like, it's okay, we got this.
• 26:23
  What's going on?
• 26:25
  What do you need?
• 26:26
  Kind of versus oh what happened?
• 26:28
  You know?
• 26:29
  Exactly.
• 26:30
  You
• 26:30
  know kind of what did you do?
• 26:31
  What time is it?
• 26:32
  Oh no.
• 26:33
  I gotta catch the subway kind of.
• 26:34
  Yeah.
• 26:34
  And to your comment it's that whole premise is not a program.
• 26:41
  It's remember that we are not human doings.
• 26:45
  We're human beings.
• 26:47
  And the minute we start focused on the doing, we lose all of those empathy and vulnerability
• 26:55
  and transparency and caring, and we lose all the relational currency.
• 27:00
  Because we'll go to tactical versus the currency, like you said, the basic fundamental
• 27:04
  things that people just need to know that you care about them in some way.
• 27:08
  They will people perform.
• 27:10
  They perform.
• 27:10
  They know what to do, but they need to feel like you're seeing them for who they are so
• 27:15
  that they could just feel connected and you could basically get out of the way so that they
• 27:19
  could do what they do very well.
• 27:22
  Well, and I think isn't that what you and I were talking about previously on another
• 27:26
  conversation was getting people to do what you want them to do is a performance management
• 27:33
  accountability.
• 27:34
  But when people are motivated to do what needs to be done, which one's gonna give better
• 27:42
  productivity?
• 27:43
  Absolutely.
• 27:45
  Now, John, this has been an amazing conversation.
• 27:48
  But I what I wanted I have one last question that I'm curious about.
• 27:52
  Let's say you're working with a leader, and he or she is, what's some of the first fundamental
• 27:59
  strategies or things that you do with that leader if they're kind of not completely bought
• 28:04
  in?
• 28:05
  They understand the concept that we're talking about.
• 28:07
  What kinds of things do you do with them to, you know, kinda open the space to get them
• 28:13
  learning some of the things they need to do to deliver what we've been talking about?
• 28:18
  Depending on the personality because some people like to analyze.
• 28:22
  Yeah.
• 28:22
  So, for those types, I will do like a triage.
• 28:26
  Okay, over the last two to four years, let's look at the programs you've done and let's look
• 28:30
  at the ROI, the residual value of all those programs.
• 28:35
  So, are you less busy and more productive today as a leader or are you kinda like the Mad
• 28:42
  Hatter off of Alice in Wonderland or Frosty the whatever it was.
• 28:46
  I'm late.
• 28:47
  I'm late.
• 28:47
  I'm late.
• 28:48
  They're always in a hurry going somewhere but not really sure where you're going.
• 28:53
  If a person is more, I wanna take my leadership to the next level.
• 28:57
  So, let me finish the triage.
• 28:59
  What comes out of that is those leaders get exhaust by always being busy and not actually
• 29:06
  feeling like they're accomplishing anything.
• 29:08
  That's where we start.
• 29:10
  Okay?
• 29:11
  What's one area that's kinda Groundhog Day?
• 29:16
  For those that are less on the busy side and more on the, okay, what do I need to do to move
• 29:24
  things forward side, then, okay, let's just pause and there's a visual.
• 29:32
  So, if your listeners are driving a vehicle while you're listening to this, please don't do
• 29:37
  this right now but if you're stopped, draw on a piece of paper, draw a circle like a clock,
• 29:45
  draw the 12 points on the circle.
• 29:49
  And draw in the middle of the circle, write the word leader or leadership, whatever.
• 29:55
  Then, write out 12 words or terms that come to your mind.
• 30:00
  When you think of leader and then, okay, how are you modeling them?
• 30:08
  And one of the things that I do is I get people to do this at a table of three to five other
• 30:16
  people and now, share how many you all have in common.
• 30:21
  And on average, it's about three to four.
• 30:24
  So, if you've got three people sitting at your table and you only share four terms in common
• 30:32
  around your definition of leadership, How do you think that's gonna ripple out through your
• 30:37
  organization?
• 30:38
  So, start by defining what you mean.
• 30:42
  What does it and the term I use is I don't use leaders.
• 30:45
  I use shepherd guides because they're in front walking the talk, guiding people.
• 30:50
  Leadership traditionally is the rancher coming behind people and driving them in the direction
• 30:55
  they should go.
• 30:57
  I also, we talk about the values.
• 31:00
  What are the real values here?
• 31:03
  And what does success mean as your organization?
• 31:08
  So, one organization I was just chatting with, we got talking about DI and diversity, equity,
• 31:15
  and inclusion and so forth And what came out of it was I did the well, why does that matter?
• 31:22
  Because the government and the normal
• 31:24
  Because of the regulations and what I'm going to be judged if I don't have it and blah, da,
• 31:27
  da, kind of thing.
• 31:28
  And I said, that's great.
• 31:30
  So just write a policy, do a program, and check the box.
• 31:33
  We want to make sure it's ingrained in who we are.
• 31:37
  Okay?
• 31:38
  Now we're talking about your values.
• 31:41
  Does that matter to You're talking about who am I and what is it that you want to resonate with
• 31:46
  DEI, not just DEI as a stamp.
• 31:49
  We
• 31:49
  are Absolutely.
• 31:50
  And
• 31:51
  those types of things.
• 31:52
  Yeah.
• 31:53
  And what you just perfectly described is rather than doing the reacting Mhmm.
• 31:59
  Okay.
• 32:00
  How do you want to grow this in the workplace?
• 32:03
  So I had a we had a phenomenal conversation because I said well really what you're talking
• 32:09
  about is psychosocial safety in the workplace.
• 32:12
  Because DI, if I'm not safe in the workplace, it doesn't matter what the package title is.
• 32:19
  Nothing's gonna fit.
• 32:21
  Absolutely.
• 32:22
  Absolutely.
• 32:23
  So it depends on which way the leader wants to approach it.
• 32:27
  I like approach of the triage.
• 32:29
  Right?
• 32:29
  If you're the frenzied, we're not gonna start to teach you anything.
• 32:33
  No.
• 32:33
  Exactly.
• 32:34
  You have to slow you down and figure out.
• 32:37
  And then but if you are the type that's already triaged into, okay, I'm managing, I'm
• 32:42
  functioning, but I'm recognizing now I wanna, you know, grow or flourish, then you kind of
• 32:48
  funnel down into those core areas, and then you start progressively working on things based on
• 32:55
  what
• 32:55
  You just said it a lot shorter and better than I did.
• 32:58
  But yes.
• 32:58
  I I don't know about that, John, but thank you anyway.
• 33:01
  No.
• 33:02
  So, John, you like you alluded to, obviously, you do a lot of consulting.
• 33:07
  You do keynote speaking.
• 33:08
  What else do you do out there in the world of work and
• 33:12
  Training and coaching would be the other two.
• 33:15
  So it depends on where organizations are at.
• 33:19
  So for example, it might be providing crisis intervention training on when we meet a person
• 33:25
  in crisis.
• 33:26
  What do I
• 33:27
  do?
• 33:28
  Yeah.
• 33:29
  Through to having that conversation, like showing appreciation at work.
• 33:36
  Genuine appreciation.
• 33:37
  I'm talking about
• 33:38
  The fluff, no fluff.
• 33:40
  Yeah, exactly.
• 33:41
  The real things.
• 33:42
  So you do pretty much kind of anything related to navigating crisis Yeah.
• 33:48
  From the microscopic with coaching or on all the way up to strategic planning based on where
• 33:54
  the company is at.
• 33:55
  So just to give you a visual because I love high IQ visuals.
• 33:59
  Picture a teeter totter.
• 34:01
  Oh.
• 34:02
  Okay.
• 34:02
  That's really high level.
• 34:04
  I I know and I'm gonna push you right outside your comfort zone and so that fulcrum in a
• 34:10
  teeter totter is that critical moment.
• 34:12
  Be it crisis, change, or growth.
• 34:15
  Yep.
• 34:16
  How a leader handles those critical moments, tilts
• 34:21
  the
• 34:21
  teeter totter towards safe, engaged, productive.
• 34:25
  So, recruitment, retention, all those things are not a big challenge or how that leader
• 34:31
  handles that critical moment tilts towards unsafe, disengagement.
• 34:36
  They're always dealing with fires.
• 34:38
  It will never leave it neutral.
• 34:41
  And Roxanne, let me and I please don't name names.
• 34:44
  But I can illustrate that critical moment fulcrum.
• 34:48
  Think about a critical moment in your life.
• 34:51
  And you remember, you will remember the people that you thought were your nine one one friends
• 34:57
  would always be there for you, and they just evaporated like water on hot asphalt.
• 35:03
  Yep.
• 35:04
  Yep.
• 35:05
  And other people that you maybe didn't even know cared came out of thin air.
• 35:12
  And what can I do, Roxanne?
• 35:14
  Yeah.
• 35:15
  It's often amazing how that happens, right?
• 35:17
  And you really do learn a lot based on this when you're going through something yourself
• 35:25
  and your expectations are high of certain people.
• 35:28
  And then other people out of nowhere, a quiet presence, a different space, and you're like
• 35:33
  blown up.
• 35:34
  And you're like, wow.
• 35:36
  What it's taught me, John, with things that have happened in my life is not to judge
• 35:41
  because people have qualities that you might have to be in the right space for them to
• 35:46
  demonstrate it to for you, for them to be able
• 35:49
  to do
• 35:49
  what you need.
• 35:50
  And maybe you've never had that opportunity in the past as well.
• 35:54
  And just dark humor alert.
• 35:56
  I'm one of those personalities that if we're in a boat and everything's smooth sailing and
• 36:01
  everything's going like clockwork, you don't want me in your boat.
• 36:04
  Because I'm that personality that'll stand up just to rock the boat and say, now this is
• 36:12
  gonna get exciting.
• 36:13
  And that's just I don't do status quo routine well.
• 36:19
  It's not a good thing or a bad thing.
• 36:21
  It's just my strength is, okay, let's find a way to get this boat planing your organization,
• 36:29
  your leadership, your personnel so that people want to work here and people know how to
• 36:37
  thrive.
• 36:54
  So John, sorry about that.
• 36:56
  But what I'd like you to do is to let everybody know where they can get ahold of you.
• 37:02
  So the easiest way is shoot me an email, and it's my so the domain is Fort Log dot co.
• 37:12
  And it's .co because I work with people, work with organizations.
• 37:16
  So colleague, collaborator, coordinate, and so on and so forth.
• 37:23
  It's a co.
• 37:24
  Fort Logs, Fort Safe Place in the Frontier.
• 37:27
  You gotta know where you're going.
• 37:28
  And a log is a journal to help others sail the sea because you no point going there alone.
• 37:33
  And the easiest way to do it is send me an email at hello@FortLog.co.
• 37:39
  And let's just have a simple conversation.
• 37:42
  Awesome.
• 37:42
  This has been an amazing conversation.
• 37:45
  So everyone, again, like the podcast, give us a review.
• 37:48
  We love to have people like John who is sharing his wisdom with the world.
• 37:52
  And I'm walking away with just drop down into your essence as a leader.
• 37:58
  Give yourself the time to be able to spend that space so you can connect with others.
• 38:04
  And with me, what's new, in the fall, I'm starting a first cohort on the ROR course.
• 38:10
  So if you're interested, just reach out to me at Roxanne@RoxanneDurkodge.com.
• 38:16
  Okay, everyone.
• 38:17
  Take care.
• 38:17
  Bye, John.
• 38:18
  We'll talk to soon.
• 38:19
  Thanks, Roxanne.
• 38:20
  Thanks for tuning in to Authentic Living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive,
• 38:26
  healthy change.
• 38:27
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist, and coach.
• 38:31
  To work with Roxanne, visit roxannedurhaj.com/blueprint.
• 38:37
  We'll see you next time on Authentic Living with Roxanne.