Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / The Tween Phone Battle: Holding the Line Without Losing Connection

Transcript

The Tween Phone Battle: Holding the Line Without Losing Connection · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Every single day. She's begging for a phone. She says
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: she's the only one without one. Sound familiar. Hello and
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: welcome to the Happy Families podcast. Real parenting Solutions every
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: day on Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast and Melbourne dad
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: sent us a voice note about his twelve year old
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: daughter who's in her first year of high school, desperately
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: wanting a smartphone. She's almost made it to the end
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: of the year. He and his wife are holding the
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: line until year eight with research and conviction about the risks,
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: but facing daily battles and the classic everyone else has
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: one argument. His question, are there any resources pitched at
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: preteens that might help them understand the risks of having
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: a supercomputer in their pocket. Here's the thing. While those
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: resources might not exist, there are proven strategies to help
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: your child understand your decision and even get on board
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: with it. Stay with us, Hi, and Welcome to the
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Happy Families podcast. Repairing Solutions every single day. We are
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Justin and Kylie Colson Tricky Questions Edition Every Tuesday. Your
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Tricky Questions are answered. If you want to be featured
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: on the pod, send us a voice note. Podcasts at
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: happyfamilies dot com. You or go to happy families dot com.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: You scroll down to podcasts, click the record button and
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: start talking. Here's today's from Nick.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: Hi Nick from Melbourne. Our daughter is twelve. She's in
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: her first year of high school. We're desperately holding back
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: the tide on giving her a smartphone until at least
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: year eight. She has a smart watch, so she still
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: has social connection with her friends and the ability to
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: contact us when needed, just no social media camera or
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: web browser, which is exactly how we want it for now.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: But the watch is small and friddly, so nowhere near
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: as enticing as a smartphone. Every single day she's begging
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: us for a phone. She says she's the only one
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: of her peers without a phone. Apparently, We've dedicated considerable
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: time to researching the issues around teens and smartphones and
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: have conviction in our views. But are there any resources
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: or podcasts available that have pitched more towards preteens that
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: might help them understand the risks to them having a
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: supercomputer in their pocket?
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: So kytie, I love how articulate Nick is and how
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: thoughtful he is in both what he's already done and
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: the way he's asked the question, what's your initial reaction?
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: Is he our first dad?
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's our first dad. We don't get a lot
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: of male voices on the pod. That's great, Yeah, that
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: is great.
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: Like you said, I love how articulate he's been, and
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: I love how invested he is and his daughter's well being.
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: The more pre armed we are as parents, the more
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: we're able to scaffold our children through this tricky period
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: of time. But I kind of feel like, even if
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: there are resources, most of our kids, I can think
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: of hundreds of conversations we've had with our children over
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: the years where they have literally looked at us and gone, yeah,
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: but that won't be me.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: Like yesus of the reward outweighs any risks that are associated.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: The risks will only have to people. Oh yeah, I'll
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: say yes whenever you ask me to hand the phone,
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: and I'll do exactly what you say. They will say
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: anything anything. So I'm writing this book about boys, and
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: one of my early readers, we've got a group of
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: beta readers. They're sort of going through those first drafts
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: for me and providing feedback, And one of the beta
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: readers said, we need a boys book. For boys like
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: I need you to do this for my teenage son,
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: like this book, except a teenage version of it, because
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: my son won't read this one. And one of the
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: other BEATA readers on a conference call said, well, why
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: don't we just do a chapter at the end of
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: the book and so you can read the book and
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: then hand the book to your son and say, just
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: read this last chapter. This one's for you. And my
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: response was, what teenage boy is going to say, Well,
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: since you've got a great relationship with doctor Justin, you've
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: read this whole book, let me read the last chapter.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: I'm all in. They don't want to hear it, especially
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: if it comes from us. And even if you're handing
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: them the resource and saying, hey, this is not actually
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: from me, it's from somebody else and they've done the resources,
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: they're seeking it themselves, there's going to be a lack
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: of motivation. You're shove it in front of their nose,
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: put it over their ears, it's still likely to backfire.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: And frankly, nick, I don't know of any resources that
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: have been built, especially for young people, where they're going
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: to get the questions answered and they're going to get
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: the stuff preached to them that you once preached to them.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: So I'm going to share instead, or we're going to
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: share today in our conversation with you, a couple of strategies.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: I think we'll share three strategies that will make a
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: difference in moving the needle on this bearing in mind
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: that we may never ever get to complete satisfaction with
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: our kids around this topic. This is perennial. It just
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: keeps ongoing. My first one, and it's something that if
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: you're a long time listener of the podcast you'll be
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: familiar with is lots of conversations using the three is
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: of effective discipline.
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: I think that's so often as parents, we think that
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: we can have a one off conversation, hit the and
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: move on, and when we find ourselves back in that
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: same place where we're having another conversation about the same thing,
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: we think that our approach isn't working. I don't know
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: what the research says on this, but I have experienced it,
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: even with you in our marriage.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: With me, pray tell.
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: The amount of times that we have a conversation and
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: we come back and revisit it and it's like I'd
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: never have said that before.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Or alternatively, I'll have the idea myself, or you'll have.
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: A conversation with your mum after we've had the conversation,
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: and all of a sudden, it's a really good idea,
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: but it wasn't a great idea when I brought it up.
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: As humans, we actually often, especially with ideas or concepts
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: that challenge us, we have to hear it multiple times.
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: We have to we have to understand.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: You're going to be able to process it, That's exactly.
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: And sometimes it's got nothing to do with who said
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: it to you, but where your mindset is in that moment,
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: and all of a sudden, it's like this light bulb
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: goes on and you go, oh, that makes so much sense.
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: Why haven't I ever thought of that?
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I hear it once and I dismiss it. I
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: hear it a second time, I'll consider it. I hear
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: it the third time, I'm like, oh, okay, this makes sense.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: So I mean, you had to bring my mum into
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: it and those conversations, and I'm a little bit defensive
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: and upset about that. But basically, Nick, when you're having
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: these conversations with your kids, it's just never won and done.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: And if you're thinking that you can sit down and
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: have a twenty minute conversation and get to a solution
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: and have everyone fisz, pump, high five, shake hands, hug, whatever,
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: and that everything will be fine, especially around a topic
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: is divisive as technology, it's just not going to happen.
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: Well, it's so emotionally charged for her as well.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: Her life will be in that phone as far as
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: she's concerned, which is why you're concerned.
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: And often another challenge that we experience is our child
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: comes home and says I'm the only one, and we
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: take that at face value because they're the ones who
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: are experienced thinks this on a day to day basis.
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: But I found that it's really handy if we can
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: actually infiltrate the community path and start to have some
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: conversations with other parents, and you'll find out really quickly
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: that your daughter isn't the only one. Maybe she's the
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: only one within her social group, but she won't be
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: the only one all right.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: So we need to get to the break, but very quickly.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: For those who are new to the POD or haven't
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: read The Parenting Revolution, let me step through what the
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: three is of effective discipline are. Just to make sure
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: that This is absolutely plain as day number one. Explore,
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: Explore what's going on for your child. Acknowledge her concerns seriously,
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: really listen, listen, listen, listen, Understand why this matters to her. Next,
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: explain the reasoning behind your decision. So don't just explain
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: the rule. Explain the reasoning and the rationale behind it.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: Make sure that the conversations are continuing and that her
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: concerns are You want to position this is thoughtful parenting,
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: not arbitrary power. It's not I'm doing this because on
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: the parent it's because I'm listening to and I'm trying
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: to understand where you're coming from and empower as much
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: as you can. So I've written a couple of things
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: on my notes here. My first question is why grade eight?
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: Is there something magical that happens at the age of
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: fourteen or fifteen. I love that there's phone but no connectivity,
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: but I wonder if she could have a phone and
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: not have connectivity ongoingly, I want to make sure that
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: you're ex exploring, exploring as much as you can so
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: that you're not just having this arbitrary Oh, we think
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  Speaker 1: grade eight's the right age, so therefore it is I
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: know that there's a whole lot of noise out there
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: in the media about it, and there are plenty of
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: people who have got movements going with grade eight being
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: where they've landed. But it's not necessarily right for your kids.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: I actually think that some kids need a phone in
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: grade five or grade six. They're unusual, it's exceptional, and
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: we really want to limit what they've got access to.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: But I think that there are good arguments to be
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: made in some cases. I also think that most kids
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: don't need a phone until they're fifteen, sixteen, maybe even
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: seventeen or eighteen, and so understanding the context matters. There
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: are two more really important things we need to talk about,
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: and they will help to answer next question about where
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: to go to get good information to have these conversations
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: stay with us. Okay, Kylie, let's run through a couple
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: of other ideas that are going to help Nick from
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: Melbourne with his daughter, who is the only one who
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: doesn't have a phone out of everybody that has a phone.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: I've found that it's really useful to use content creators
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: who discuss phone addiction and mental health impacts, and you
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  Speaker 1: can get your child to follow them on their social
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: media platforms if they're willing to so. One of my
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: favorites is Jonathan Hate. Another one is called Official Herd.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: They're both on Instagram. And even people like doctor Brad
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: Marshall are the unplugged psychologist, people who have strong academic
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: backgrounds and who are sharing really thoughtful content. Now you
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: might not tell them to follow them, but you might say, hey,
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: once a week, we're going to sit down and just
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: have a look at what other people are saying, and
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: we're going to discuss these issues and see how you
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: feel about it. That can be really helpful. I'd be
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: looking for young people who are talking about their own
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: struggles with technology. There's plenty of them. One of my
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: favorites is Freyer India, who is so good Freya Freyer India.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: There's just something about how the message lands when it
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: comes from somebody other than a parent. I mean, our
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: kids are much more likely to listen to anybody but us,
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: in spite of the fact that we are the quote
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: unquote and maybe because, but I think most of all,
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: just say hey, here's the information. What do you think like?
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: Show respect for her intelligence by inviting her into the
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: conversations rather than lecturing at her.
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: What's your third strategy?
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: We had this experience with our year ten daughter and
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: it was just so perfect. There was a school assignment
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: that was given out that was very well timed, extremely helpful,
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: and it was basically engage with. The assignment was that
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: our daughter had to engage with the argument that screens
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: are causing harm to young people and she had to
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: write an essay or do a report or something like
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: that talking about the and cons for screens for kids.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: And she just engaged with that differently because it was
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: the school assignment rather than us telling her no or
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: preaching at her. So when the school makes it easy
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: for you by giving you an assignment or giving your
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: daughter an assignment, that's great because she becomes the expert.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: You can even ask her to present the information of
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: the family. If the school isn't doing it, maybe you
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: can create some informal research opportunities at home and invite
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: her to put together a powerboak presentation making the arguments
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: for and against.
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: Because Lily goes to an industry school, so she's been
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: in placement for the last five weeks, she hasn't yet
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: experienced the new rules that have come in for this term,
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: but when she arrives at school next Monday, she has
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: to hand a phone in from age thirty to three.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, okay, And state schools around the country
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: now have all got that rule.
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: And I love that schools are starting to recognize the
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: immense distraction and challenge that having a phone in your
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: pocket all day, every day is having on our kids,
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: and specifically on their learning experience.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: All right, let's wrap this up, Nick. I think you're
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: doing the right thing. We think you're doing the right thing.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: This is valuable, it's important. It's also worth the struggle
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: on the pot. A couple of months ago, we talked
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: about a recent study showing people using phones without the
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: internet improve their well being over a two week period.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: We shared that with our fifteen year old daughter, and
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: that research evidence shifted her. It may or may not
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: work for anyone else, but it worked for our daughter.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: It's not about keeping her offline forever. It's about reducing
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: access to the most addictive elements during these crucial stages
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: of development. And I think that so long as so
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: long as buying happens, you're much more likely to get
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: positive outcomes. When she understands the decision, you get good outcomes.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: If she doesn't understand the decision, you just get rebellion,
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: you get resentment, you get a NonStop relationship breakdown. It's
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: just such hard work. So we're really trying to build
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: understand over time. One last thing that I'll say, and Kylie,
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: I'm sure that you'll have something to add to this.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: It never goes away. Like once she has the phone,
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: the arguments continue, but now the argument isn't about whether
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: or not she wants one and can have one. Now
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: the argument is you need to get off the device.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: You're on it too much, so you get to pick
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: your pain.
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: I think about so many of the conversations we've had
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: with the children with a desirable outcome in mind, and
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: yet as we've worked with our children and they've come
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: to us with their concerns, with their you know, kind
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: of thinking outside the box solutions, we've found ourselves agreeing
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: with them or acquiescing on the hard line that we
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: may have wanted to hold because they've actually been really
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: wise in their response, and it hasn't been about arguing
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: their case. It's been about having this really wonderful, enlightening
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: conversation where we get to work together come up with
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: a solution that actually feels good for both of us.
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: But the reality is, even though you might have that experience,
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: you're still going to revisit that conversation.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: I was going to say, you open up the box though,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: and it's just enduring. It is an enduring conversation. I
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: really hope there's been a helpful conversation for you, though, Nick,
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: and good luck as you continue to fight the good fight.
• 14:20
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• 14:22
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• 14:30
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• 14:41
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• 14:44
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• 14:52
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