Latest / UNLEASHED By LoyaltyOps / You Can't Scale Complexity | Derek Fredrickson

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You Can't Scale Complexity | Derek Fredrickson · UNLEASHED By LoyaltyOps

• Derek Fredrickson: I only do three things in my business as a CEO. I focus and work on my vision, I do sales, and I do team development. I'm very much focused on like what we do for our clients, which is let the CEO be in the lane of the CEO. That's their zone of genius. If you try to put them into that operator box, it's gonna feel like oil and water. Mickey Anderson: Welcome back to another episode of Unleashed. Today we are digging into this growing fractional model, and all of the things that you want to know about hiring a fractional executive, what it looks like for your business and how to grow a sustainable business in this wild Derek Fredrickson: Welcome back to another episode of Unleash. Today we are digging into this growing fractional all of the things that you want to know hiring a fractional executive, what it looks like for your business and how to grow a sustainable business in this. Mickey Anderson: day and age. Today, I am so excited to have Derek Frederickson with me today from the COO solution. Welcome, Derek. Derek Fredrickson: Wild Day and Age today. I am so excited to have Derek Frederickson with me today from the COO solution. Welcome, Thank you, Mickey. I'm looking forward to our conversation. And thank you for having me on the show. Mickey Anderson: the world of fractionals has been growing pretty steadily over the past decade, I'd say, but now we're noticing a lot more of this prevalence within Derek Fredrickson: pumped. So the world of fractionals has been growing pretty steadily over the past decade, I'd say, but now we're noticing a of this prevalence. Mickey Anderson: companies of many different sizes, from small, medium, all the way up to larger size businesses. And you are building a fractional business yourself. So I'd love to hear more about the COO solution, what you're building, anything that you can share about the business. Derek Fredrickson: Within companies many different sizes, from small, medium, all the way up to larger size businesses. And you are building a fractional business yourself. So I'd love to hear about the COO solution, what you're building, anything that you can share about business. Yeah, thank you. I've been doing fractional, meaning part time, right? Just another another way to say part time. fractional COO. So chief operating officer, basically that number two in your company. You've got your CEO, and right next to them, you've got your COO. CEO is all about coming up with a big idea, the vision. This is where we're going. And the COO is the one that makes it happen. They make it real. They're the execution for the vision. So I've been doing fractional COO work for more than 16 years and helping companies, usually around seven to eight figures, grow and scale, and typically just getting the founder out of the day-to-day bottleneck so they can focus on the bigger future that they want to be focused on. and you're right, I think the world of fractional has been gaining a lot of visibility in the last you calling it last 10 years or so. I think there were people before then that were doing fractional work, but it was just more part-time or more project-based. Where now I think I don't know if it's just the environment in the workplace or maybe it's more of a a post-COVID thing where people are looking at their professional journeys in different in different shapes and forms. And there's a lot of advantages and some disadvantages, to considering the fractional route. I always say it gives you the variety, the flexibility, the independence to choose who you work with, the types of clients that you engage with, the type of work that you do. You can be very selective. And I think, you know, in a more permanent full-time employee COO position, you don't necessarily have that. You have some other benefits. You may have that security, you may have that groundedness, which some people really crave. But I think I'm noticing a trend of more and more people that are, I say, taking the leap. into fractional or they're tipping their toe into fractional to see if that's something that they want to explore going forward. And I think it's a very you know attractive and and viable model with the caveat. And I always throw this in here because sometimes people are thinking like I should just be a fractional COO, CMO, CFO, whatever that might be, you are first and foremost a business owner. Never forget that no matter how good you are at whatever it is that you do as a fractional executive, if you don't market and you don't get clients, Nobody knows you exist. And so I always say focus on your marketing and sales in the beginning, more so than your craft. If you're a good fractional CFO, you can get better at being a fractional CFO, but you also need to get really good at building your pipeline, building your network, building your referrals, getting really comfortable and having sales conversations. Because again, if you don't have clients to do amazing work with, then nobody knows you exist if you don't have that steady influx. I've been building the COO solution for the last two years. I I I tell the story that I took off my COO hat two years ago, put on a CEO hat, and have been very much in the kind of CEO lane of building and growing and scaling my company. I have a team now of about 15 fractional COOs that work with me, and a bench, meaning like kind of like a backup, if you will, of another 50 or 60 that I've spoken to. So it's exciting. It's very motivating. I I enjoy the work that I'm doing and yeah it's been it's been a great ride so far I I'm super interested in this transition you made because you started off working essentially fractionally and I know you worked with your wife for quite some time as well in her business and then made this transition. And so I'd love to hear kind of your perspective or your journey from Mickey Anderson: I I'm super interested in this transition you made because you started off working essentially fractionally. And I know you worked with your wife for quite some time as well in her business and then made this transition. And so I'd love to hear kind of your perspective or your journey from moving from the executioner service delivery as the fractional COO to now having to cultivate talent, train and make sure that you've got them, running the playbook that you want, serving clients and focusing on the growth of this business. Derek Fredrickson: Moving from the executioner service delivery as the fractional COO to now having to cultivate talent, training and make sure that you've got them, running the playbook that you want, serving clients, and focusing on the growth of this business. the culmination of that, you know, it it sounded like it happened pretty quickly, but it took a a many, many years, right? So as you mentioned, I started out doing fractional COO work. in my wife's business coaching company. This was back in 2008. She had just reached the that that glass ceiling seven figure milestone back in 2008. And as she said, not me, these are her words, it was built on toothpicks and band-aids. There was no foundation, there was no real structure, there was no real system. She was great at the front stage, but there was no real person managing the backstage. And that's what a true operator COO does. So I stepped in and did that. And we worked exceptionally well, knowing that that was our lane CEO, COO, et cetera. Especially as husband and wife, which is not only, you know, you can add another dynamic. and then we basically continued to grow and scale that company to multiple seven figures. I describe it as a self-managing company, the right people, the right seats, processes in place. And it's not that I felt like I had kind of done what I needed to do, but I wanted to kind of test myself in other industries, other markets with other clients. it was easy because it was close to home working. With my wife and that business. And I'd been doing it for more than 10 years. So when we moved to France about 10 years ago, I started to offer fractional COO services to other companies, other clients. Fortunately, most of them came from that business coaching community, right? So we were coaching women entrepreneurs at six and seven figures, and they would tap me on the shoulder and say, I need a Derek. I need somebody to do for my business what you have done for your wife's business. And I did that for a number of years, and I really enjoyed that. And during that process, I was really kind of I don't want say perfecting my craft, but working on my craft, right? Because I was fortunate to not have to spend a ton of time on marketing and sales. and I can get really clear on like how do I work with the founder, how do I work with teams, what's the right structures, what's the right playbooks, the run books, kind of building out my own operating system of how I do that with other companies. But as a fractional executive, you cannot scale yourself, right? That's the that's the that's the rub. e I was increasing my rates and the clients would come and I would put more parameters on the work that I was doing and the clients would still come. Great problem to have. I'm not complaining. The other challenge is that living here in France, our market, my market is US based. So if I had a client in California, like their 9 a.m. meeting is my six p.m. evening. And so there wasn't a lot of room for overlap. And so my afternoons were getting really, really stretched, and I From a personal boundary perspective, I was not willing to work in the evening or on weekends. So I needed to take a shift. And I really wanted to serve these clients that were coming that or companies that were coming to me that wanted to work with me, but I didn't have enough of me to go around. So I very deliberately started to take the transition out of doing the COO work. I rolled off some of those legacy COO clients for a period of a good number of months because I've been working with them for quite some time. And started to put more time, energy, and effort into building and growing the COO solution. And I say this and it sounds like, it it this as easy as it sounds, because I'm oversimplifying, but I kind of took my playbook and just kind of plugged it into what I'm doing at the COO solution, right? I've been working with founders for 16 years. I know what it's like to be on the other side because I've been in those conversations. I've been working with them. I hear what they're saying. I can understand the high highs and low lows. So when I kind of stepped in. The CEO seat, I was kind of doing the things that I knew I needed to do because I had that perspective by working as a COO with a lot of other founders and CEOs. but since then it's been you know very much focused on building it for scale. That is my model. I'm I'm really building it with the end in mind. One of the first things I did was bring on a fractional COO from my own company, kind of walk the talk. and that's really helpful. But I'm also an operator at heart, right? I love to get into some of the detail. I love to get into the nitty-gritty. I love to kind of look at things from an operator lens. Unfortunately, my COO kind of puts me back in the CEO lane and focus more on like where we're going, what's the vision, what's the future, where are you going to get to, etc. And really, right now, I only do three things in my business as a CEO. I focus and work on my vision, I do sales, and I do team development. I very, very little delivery. Very, very little marketing, although I do have a podcast, but I'm very much focused on like what we do for our clients, which is let the CEO be in the lane of the CEO. That's their zone of genius. If you try to put them into that operator box, it's gonna feel like oil and water. So that's a little bit about what what the journey was like and what's top of mind for me. There's this transition that you you kind of spoke about lightly there, where you had to shift Mickey Anderson: There's this transition that you you kind of spoke about lightly there, where you had to shift from, selling for yourself, getting clients for yourself, making sure that your playbooks and your operating system were functional, to now having to do that for others. Derek Fredrickson: know, selling for yourself, getting clients for yourself, making sure that your playbooks and your operating system are functional, to now having to do that for others. Mickey Anderson: the business development shifts and scales up to now I have to get clients for all of these other people. And now I have to make sure the playbooks are good for all of these other people. What did that journey look like for you? Derek Fredrickson: So the business development shifts and scales up. So now I have to get clients for all of these other people and now we have to make sure the playbooks are good for all of these other people. What did that journey look like for you? Mickey Anderson: Were there any big milestones or challenges that came up while you're making that shift from kind of a one man show, one man's capacity, one man delivery to now a team? Derek Fredrickson: Were there any big milestones or challenges that came up while you're making that shift from could have a one man show, one man's capacity, one man delivery to now a team? Yeah. Some of what I focused on in the very beginning is like I had to build everything first in a way, right? Like I couldn't just kind of put up my shingle and say, hey, you want to hire me, but guess what? Now you're going to hire somebody else, right? There's not that transfer of trust. It doesn't happen that easily. And my number one value is trust. So I wasn't willing to try to facilitate that because it would feel like out of integrity. So I really, and I remember in the very beginning, I remember like the first version of my website and my marketing materials. It was all about me. It was all about Derek. And I would speak to somebody. I really had to convince them, not in a strong sales, persuasive kind of a way, but in a understanding that I have a solution that works. I don't have to be the solution. And I always say it's a solution that works. And if it works for you, great. But if it doesn't work, that's fine too. So I always kind of disattached myself from the outcome of having those conversations. And then I did a lot of work to vet. The time the members of my team. I really started to get to know them. Not only do they check the boxes and come batteries included as a fractional COO, but could they do the work at a better level than I am? And I have some members on my team that are actually better as a COO than I am. They worked with companies bigger than the companies that I've worked with. And I remember one of the biggest moments that shifted this for me where it's not about me, it's more about them and the client and our process and our structure. Is that when I closed a client at a $15 million business? And I remember in the sales conversation, like my little drunk monkey was saying, Derek, you've never worked with a $15 million company. So how are you going to try and present this as an opportunity when you've never done that type of work? And it wasn't about me. It was about the COO that I had in mind. It was about our structure, our process, their expertise, their experience. I've done the vetting for them, I've done the heavy lifting. And there's this kind of bubble of oversight and involvement from my perspective. It's not matchmaking, right? We're not like a placement company in that way. But I'm still through that. I'm still going through that, right? Like my version of the website now still has me on the homepage. And I'm trying to make it less about me and more about our process, more about our clients and more about our results. And I think in general, when you can position it in that way, you can start to shift it to be more about what we are providing as opposed to what I'm bringing to the table. it's interesting. I think there's a lot of businesses who start off as the founder, right? It's kind of the emiss itself, as many people read, right? Where it's my face, my name, right my reputation, my delivery of services. And that trust building is what sets the initial foundation. But then as you start to scale, as you start to add people who are taking over delivery for you, there's this kind of interesting shift where you wanna keep the trust and the personal relationship and the connection to the founder Mickey Anderson: I think there's a lot of businesses who start off as the founder, right? It's kind of the emith itself, as many people have read, Where it's my face, my name, my my reputation, my delivery of services. And that trust building is what sets the initial foundation. But then as you start to scale, as you start to ed people who are taking over delivery for you, there's this kind of interesting shift where you want to keep the trust and the personal relationship and the connection to the founder because it's Derek Fredrickson: because it's Mickey Anderson: what built the house essentially, while also highlighting the others and the process and going bigger for you as you're making that transition from it being all about you and the branding and marketing to now being about the solution, how are you attacking that kind of balance of I still want to have a personal brand tied to this, but also there's more to it than just that. Derek Fredrickson: what built the house essentially, while also highlighting the others and the process and going bigger for you as you're making that transition from it being all about you and the branding and marketing to now being about the solution. How are you attacking that kind of balance of still want to have a personal brand tied to this, but also there's more to it than just that? Yeah. I'm in the middle of that right now. So very transparently speaking One of the things that has been a gradual shift as I've been building this out. And again, mind you, this has been just about two years. I mean, 2025 was my first full full year in business. and one of the things that's been a gradual progression is my mindset shifting that the results that our clients get don't depend on Derek being in the room. And in the beginning, I felt like I needed to be in the room. I wanted to be in the room. And what I was doing was I was positioning it to be more about me. And less about the COO and less about our process. And what I wasn't doing was giving them the opportunity to have that room with the client without me being involved. And so what I've slowly started to do, and I do this now with every sales conversation I have, and I have fortunately several of them every single week. I present it where it is about this is the person that's going to be working with you. This is the solution. This is our process. These are the results that you're going to get. I'm not, you know, I'm not exit, you know, lefting, I haven't left the building. But what they're buying is more of the results of our methodology and our structure and our process and not necessarily me. And as a result, I had to allow myself to not be involved in that delivery piece. Yes, I might be involved in like an onboarding session just to kind of kick things off. But after that, especially in the type of work a an operator or a COO does, they're in the trenches every single day for weeks and weeks and months and months. How can I step up after 30 days and add value and say, well, you should do it this way or you should do it that way? I'm not. Like privy to what's really going on in the in the underbelly of the company. So I've just been more working on my mindset about it, changing gradual structural things in my program delivery where it's less about me. It's more about the client, the process, the team that's going to be working with them. and it's been working and it's allowed me to focus more on the things that are going to bring more opportunities and not have to get bogged down into the delivery. And I think one of the biggest things I realized, and I think I did a podcast episode about this, is that I am not the best COO anymore. And to be honest, I don't like it anymore. It's really strange. I like some aspects of it, but of of it, but I really enjoy being like the founder CEO and focusing more on that lane. Yeah, it's such an interesting transition. There's there's this shift where at first you're trying to hold on and take on more, and then all of a sudden the role becomes let it go. Yeah. And it's it's an identity shift, it's a structural shift. It's so many layers that can be really, really challenging, but also really rewarding. Yeah. Mickey Anderson: it's such an interesting transition. There's there's this shift where at first you're trying to hold on and take on more and then all of a sudden the role becomes letting go. And it's it's an identity shift, it's a structural shift. It's so many layers that can be really, really challenging, but also really rewarding as you get through it too. Derek Fredrickson: Yeah. And that's exactly what we teach our clients. So it's kind of, you know, I'm walking the talk in that way. And I think there's, and I've heard this, I I I'm going through it myself and I hear it from the clients, is that if they're going from that model where they're buying you to a model where they're buying the process, the the you know, your team, et cetera, then it's like, but there's this feeling of like significance that maybe isn't being met. And so where do I get that feeling of significance? Because everybody wants to feel significant. And so what I'm doing is I'm supplementing that or replacing that with. Being more out there, doing more podcasts, doing more speaking, connecting with referral partners, strategic alliances, partnerships, et cetera, in that regard. And that's more my zone of how I can help grow and scale and deliver to the company, as opposed to being so bogged down in so much of the day-to-day. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And one of the things you mentioned earlier on, in terms of kind of your your primary focus, was on your team development. So I'm curious for you because I find there's this. Mickey Anderson: that makes a lot of sense. And one of the things you mentioned earlier on in terms of kind of your your primary focus was on your team development. And so I'm curious for you because I find there's this as an operator, we have this desire, this almost need to playbook, to process, to, you know, document everything possible. But as you grow, there's this shift from, okay, do I really want them to be playbook thinkers? Derek Fredrickson: As an operator, we have this desire, this almost need to playbook, to process, to, you know, document everything possible. But as you grow, there's this shift from, okay, do I really want them to be playbook Do I am I hiring better people to get better insights? What does that look like for you as you're developing talent, taking in people who are better than you, so to speak, while also honoring the process that you built that you Mickey Anderson: Am I hiring better people to get better insights? What does that look like for you as you're developing talent, taking in people who are better than you, so to speak, while also honoring the process that you built that you know works? Derek Fredrickson: know works? So I'll describe my model, and I know it's not the model. There are other companies that have different spectrums of this model, but this is just what has always worked well for me. And it's what what I continue to feel is the best path for me to grow and scale the COO solution. So you're right. I probably speak to three to four possible COO candidates every single week. I probably have people reaching out to me twice that number. And I have a very, not surprisingly, structured process before I actually get on. a conversation with somebody. I have a survey that's if you go to the website at the bottom, it says join our team. And there's a survey that they have to fill out just to see if there's a possible fit for them as a COO with our company. It usually takes about 30 to 45 minutes. So that right alone is going to filter out 50% of the people that are just the looky los. And that's nothing wrong with that, but I'm looking for people that are committed, motivated, and really inclined to take the next step. And when I screen those candidates and they check all those boxes as a really, really good strong fractional experienced COO and I have the conversation with them, I say, listen, at the end of the day, yes, I rely heavily on the skill set, experience, and expertise of the COOs on my team. It's their zone of genius. They've been doing it for 10, 15 years. They love to run other people's companies. That's their jam, right? However, because we're not matchmaking, we're not a placement company that says, hey, you know, COO, here's the client. Hey, client, here's COO, go and do what you would do on your own. We're not that. But we're also not like a super defined lane of how we do what we do, where there's no room for adoptability. There's no room for them to weave in their own skill set, experience, intuition, et cetera. I said we're kind of like a hybrid. We're a combination of both. And as a result, yes, you are the day-to-day embedded boots on the ground operator. However, when it comes to do things like client onboarding, we have a methodology. When it comes to do strategic planning, we have a methodology. If you're going to be using EOS as an example, entrepreneurial operating system, there's references of how we do that. And even in the last six months, we've been building out what we call our TCSOS, our the CO solution operating system. It's our playbook, it's our methodology so that when they're doing the work with the client, and let's say you have to focus on building out dashboard metrics, KPIs, instead of starting from scratch. We've got a model. We've got a template. You can leverage that. You can use that. And if it's something that you want to modify and tweak to make it more for what you feel is best to work with the client, go ahead and do that. We're not going to keep you into that one lane. It's going to be a broad lane with some guardrails, if you know what I mean. And I think that's just the model that works for us because there are some that are pure matchmakers and others where they come in and it's like I have to just basically stay in the lane and do the work exactly how I'm told. You're not tapping into the brilliance of that COO who's been doing this for fifteen years. So you gotta, I think the model is like marry the two together. Mickey Anderson: Mm-hmm. Enable with support and guardrails, right? Frameworks, whatever it is there, but you also have to leverage the brilliance that lies in the team as well. It's this fine balance. And I find as you grow it becomes more challenging to maintain that, but also more important. Derek Fredrickson: Enable with support and guardrails, right? Frameworks, whatever it is there, but you also have to leverage the brilliance that lies in the team as well as the spine balance. And I find as you grow, it becomes more challenging to maintain that. Yeah. Also more important. I always say to our team, listen, we are all not too cool for school. We could always learn and adapt from others, including myself, right? And so now I've actually, this is interesting, just in the last two months, I actually have exited. From the monthly meeting that we usually would have with the COOs to share best practices, because I don't have those. I'm not the operator anymore. So my COO leads them. And what one COO is going through that might be a learning experience or an opportunity to benefit from in one scenario could be something that the other COO could benefit from. So there's a little bit of a rising tide lifts all boats in terms of sharing best practices, resources, just being able to support somebody, talk them through whatever they're going through. I've done that before. Yeah, let me help you with that. Right. That's a real big benefit to having this kind of collective approach to it. Yeah. Yeah. One of the things you mentioned earlier as well was we talked about Mickey Anderson: One of the things you mentioned earlier as well was we talked about letting go, I find it one of the challenges as you scale is the number of priorities and objectives and tasks tends to grow, right? Because you've got more heads, more clients, more things to tackle and oversee. And I'm curious for you, how do you balance prioritization and focus in your organization? Derek Fredrickson: I find it one of the challenges as you scale is the number of priorities and objectives and tasks tends to grow, right? Because you've got more heads, more clients, more things to tackle and oversee. And I'm curious for you, how do you balance prioritization and focus in your organization? Mickey Anderson: letting go Derek Fredrickson: Letting go of things that are nice to have, not necessarily neat to haves, and make sure that everyone's kind of aligned on what matters Mickey Anderson: of things that are nice to have, not necessarily need to haves, and and make sure that everyone's kind of aligned on what matters most. Derek Fredrickson: most. If I look back as to when I started and what I was doing in the very beginning, it is infinitely less than what I'm doing now. And I firmly believe that I say this to clients: if your business feels complex, you cannot scale complexity. You can scale simplicity. So I've simplified my business model, structure, offering, marketing. To a a full degree from what it was in the beginning. In the beginning, I had three different lead magnets. I was doing a webinar. I was all over the place in my messaging. I was like, let's just focus on women because we have a lot of women clients. Let's just focus more on maybe the less than seven figure companies that are saying, I want a COO, but they don't really need a COO. So we add a whole OBM division, an online business manager. So we were like, I'll do the work. We'll be that resource for you, no matter kind of what you need. If you're a business that has a huge physical on-site presence and I'm trying to convince you that it can work from a virtual perspective and you don't buy it, then I'm like, then this isn't the solution for you. Right. So I was very aware of the signs. Right now, we only offer one thing, and that is a done for you fractional COO model. It's not full time, it's not less than seven figures. If you're at 25 million, it's not for you because fractional doesn't work. my marketing is one lead magnet. That's it. I've always sometimes I'm like, maybe we could create this other cool lead magnet. And Claude said I could create this and I could do this really cool funnel land. No, no, no, no, no. Dial in my one lead magnet. It's a quiz and it works exceptionally well. And I'm just every month I'm retooling that. The messaging, the questions, the follow-up sequence, the ad campaigns with my marketing team, of course. I'm refining how I do sales conversations, what's working, what's not working. This is part of what a COO does. So this is a little bit more of my operator mindset: is that in all of these aspects of my business, I'm looking at. constantly through the lens of what's working, how can we do more of what's working? What's not working? Who owns the fact that it's not working? It may be me, it may be somebody else. But what do we need to change, update, or remove to make what's not working back on track and get that working again? And so I'm constantly trying to like not contain, because that sounds like I'm like trying to, you know, push down. I'm trying to dial it in. Like I'm trying to go deep into our offer, our messaging, our ICP, Our lead magnet, our sales process, our delivery model. So it's just more simple. Cause I do believe that that's easier to scale when I've got five different offerings, four different lead magnets, six different funnels. That's complexity. And that just you can scale that, but I just feel like it's gonna be a lot of work and I'd rather focus on where I ultimately want to be. Yeah, yeah. It sounds like there's this, and I I've seen this so many times where we have an operator or a founder shift into that visionary role. Mickey Anderson: it sounds like there's this and I I've seen this so many times where we have an operator or a founder shift into that visionary role. and the I call it idea vomiting starts to come up where it's idea, idea, vision, this this opportunity. And typically you have the operator, the COO, or the fractional COO there to say, Hey, like, let's focus in. Like you do your visioning, but I'm gonna tell you we're gonna come together and choose what's actually the priority here to dial it down. Derek Fredrickson: and the I call it idea vomiting starts to come up. Yeah. Idea, idea, vision, this this opportunity. And typically you have the operator, the COO or the fractional COO there to say, Hey, like, let's focus in. Yeah. Do your visioning, but I'm gonna tell you we're gonna come together and choose what's actually the priority here. Yeah. down. But you kind of you have this in between. You have an operator supporting you, but you also have the operator mindset. Mickey Anderson: You have this in between. You have an operator supporting you, but you also have the operator mindset and the visionary Derek Fredrickson: and the visionary mindset to you. So it's this interesting balance that you're kind of flexing between as the business shifted as you shift Mickey Anderson: mindset too. So it's this interesting balance that you're kind of flexing between as the business shift and as you shift as a leader. Derek Fredrickson: as a leader. Yeah. It's kind of like which one's gonna show up today. Sometimes we do my my weekly leadership team meeting and my COO and I kind of put something on the agenda that was an idea I had on Monday. It's just like, yeah, so what was this thing that you put in that you wanted to talk about? Like, no, no, no we're not gonna you know, it's just it's just an idea. It's not, you know, I've already convinced myself. But this is you call it idea vomiting, which I've never heard, which I love the expression. I call it throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks, right? But here's the thing. I always say this for a visionary entrepreneur, let them. Because if that ever gets stifled, you are basically you are squashing their ideation, you are squashing their creativity, and they need to be in that lane. But they also need the trust, faith, and confidence that when you pick the one strand of the spaghetti and you're gonna land a plane, there's a path to execution from idea to implementation, from vision into execution. And oftentimes Entrepreneurs love to start things. They don't love to finish things. So when you have an operator there that can finish things, right? You get results from things you finish, not things that you implement 50%. When you have that other dynamic in place, that's where I think you can really get some momentum. So I think with a lot of our clients, they are huge high idea generators every week, right? But at the end of the day, there may be only one of those 10 ideas that's going to stick. And they feel really good that somebody can take that forward, which might just be like, what's the next step? Doesn't mean we're doing it, doesn't mean we're stopping everything else, but we're gonna explore it. We're going to take the next step. So there's a lot that I think you know, a a really good COO is not a no machine because you don't want to stifle it, but you're also not a yes machine where you're saying yes to everything and then you're just kind of starting all of these balls in the air that can feel chaotic. I'll give you one hack. I know this is a lot, but I'll give you one hack and I do this a lot with our clients. which is if you have a visionary entrepreneur that comes with this amazing idea, I always encourage my COOs, get them to sell themselves on the idea before they try to sell it to you. And what I mean is sell themselves is like, okay, so walk me through what what's the best case scenario if we do this? What does that look like? Paint the picture for me. Get them to talk it out. What's the worst case scenario if we don't do this? Or what's the best case scenario if we don't do this? Like, what does the end result look like? What's the objective? What's the intention? What are the pros? What are the cons? Like we're just Getting them to vent and express. And sometimes they go through that process and realize, you know, that's more like a two out of ten idea. Or they go through that process like I'm now really jazzed. That's now a ten out of ten. And the COO can see it too because they've asked the questions, which is what does it going to look like? What's the result that you want? What's the end goal? What's the success criteria? Start with the end in mind and get the founder to sell themselves before you would try to sell it to the team and get them to buy in. So Mickey Anderson: that's such a great tip. it shows the importance of the team dynamics and the collaboration and the working together that's required at that executive level, where you have all these different skill sets, these different filters that people are running ideas and opportunities and challenges through and being able to really tap into all of those minds, making sure that we are choosing the most important, the best possible case, right? Derek Fredrickson: Yeah, that's such mean, that it shows the importance of the team dynamics and the collaboration and the working together that's required at that executive level. Yeah. Where you have all these different skill sets, these different filters that people are running ideas and opportunities and challenges through and being able to really tap into all of those minds, making sure that we are choosing the most important, the best possible case, right. Mickey Anderson: idea letting go of the ones that don't matter and maybe earmarking others for a a different time in the future. But it's it just it really highlights that relationship necessary and the trust necessary at that level too. Derek Fredrickson: idea letting go of the ones that don't matter and maybe earmarking others for a a different time exactly but it it just really highlights that relationship necessary yeah and the trust necessary at that level too I think 90% of the time the entrepreneur just wants somebody to listen to their idea doesn't mean that they want to go and run. I learned this from my wife she came with the expression I'm just throwing spaghetti she would say to me Derek I'm just throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks I don't want you to go and do it. We're not making a decision it's not changing anything else okay my my execution you know, nervous system got regulated in that expression, but I also wouldn't want to be there and be like, you know, we can't. there's another idea. Like if you do that, you're gonna stifle you're gonna put the entrepreneur in a box and they don't like to be boxed in. They like to be free, independent. Mickey Anderson: I so appreciate that you practiced that skill with your wife. So my husband and I run our business together. And I know a lot of other we call them couplepreneurs in the realm. but that dynamic because I know for myself in our relationship, I am totally the ideas person. I am the visionary, I am out there. I'm also the one who loves to vent and I'm a verbal processor. And so I actively have to tell my husband. Derek Fredrickson: I so appreciate that you practice that skill with your wife. So my husband and I run our business together. And I know a lot of other we call them couplepreneurs. I that dynamic, because I know for myself in our relationship, I am totally the ideas person. I am the visionary, I am out there. I'm also the one who loves to vent and I'm a verbal processor. And so I actively have to tell my husband. Mickey Anderson: I don't want you to solve this for me. I'm not looking for your ideas. I just need to get it off my chest and for you to say, thank you for sharing. Like, cool. And I think there's that a similar dynamic in the C O O CEO situation as well, in that relationship where you have to have the space and the guardrails to say, I'm gonna just vent this out, get it out there, process it. And Derek Fredrickson: I don't want you to solve this for me. I'm not looking for your ideas. I just need to get it off my chest for you to say thank you for sharing. Yeah. Cool. And I think there's that a similar dynamic in the COO CEO situation as well, in that relationship where you have to have the space and the guardrails to say, I'm gonna just vent this out, get it out there, process it. Mickey Anderson: I Derek Fredrickson: And I Mickey Anderson: This is what I need from you. Either you're gonna sit and listen or we're gonna choose together and prioritize and figure this out. So it's I I love that you learned that with your wife. Derek Fredrickson: This is what I need from you. Yeah. Either you're going to sit and listen or we're going to choose together and prioritize and figure this out. So I I I love that you learned that with your wife. There's a they call it healthy conflict, right? And that's a really good element of a COO. I call I call it the the EQ, right? I don't know if it's left brain or right brain, but COOs are typically deadline, structure, process, plan, et cetera. Then there's this other component, which is like the empathetic component, the EQ component. You are that trusted second in command. You are like, That strategic thought partner. If you've ever seen the movie, gosh, it's not good fellows. What's the Italian movie? I'm drawing a blank about it. Godfather, Godfather. Consigliere, right? That trusted sound advice-giving person. You have to have that and you have to be able to go like, okay, execute. I want to make it happen. And I think otherwise you have, I use this analogy that sometimes the entrepreneur is like a kite, and sometimes they need that string to ground them. But if you have somebody who's wired as a string and there's no kite to kind of give them the thing to go and implement, they're gonna just kind of lay flat. So if you kind of put those two together and have some healthy conflict of yes, it's a great idea and tell me more, or I think that's an amazing idea and or never say but and we're gonna map that out. Or it's an amazing idea, and how should we do that in addition to what we're already doing? Like that's a conversation that needs to be talked through. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's interesting. So my husband's background is military and and Mickey Anderson: It's interesting. So my husband's background is military and and the two I C in the military is typically like the man's man. It's the people, it's the person who people go to to share truthfully, where like the hard reality is shared, where ideas are filtered. There's a big component of empathy and trust building in that role because when the Derek Fredrickson: The two I see in the military is typically like the band's man. It's the people, it's the person who people go to to share truthfully, where like the hard reality is shared, where ideas are filtered. There's a big component of empathy and trust building in that role. Because one Mickey Anderson: first in command leaves the room, this is the person who gets reality from the ground. This is the person who becomes the filter both ways. So it's a really interesting. Now one of Derek Fredrickson: The first in command leaves the room. This is the person who gets reality from the ground. This is the person who becomes the filter both ways. So it's really interesting. Now I want to touch on a bit of the future of the fractional world and how you're building the COO solution for that. I mean, we are in the day and age of everyone's talking about these one person billion dollar SaaS companies with AI and speed and the layoffs. And it's just a wild place and time. And so where do you see the world of fractionals moving? And how are you building? Mickey Anderson: touch on a bit of the future of the fractional world and how you're building the COO solution for that. I mean, we are in the day and age of everyone's talking about these one person billion dollar SaaS companies and AI and speed and the layoffs and it's just a wild place and time. And so where do you see the world of fractionals moving? And then how are you building the COO Derek Fredrickson: The COO solution to meet Mickey Anderson: solution to meet that future? Derek Fredrickson: that feature. I think the world of fractionals is definitely building. like you said, I think in the last 10 years it's really kind of been on trajectory for a number of different reasons, and we could, you know, dive into that. I th I actually had a conversation with somebody the other day and they introduced themselves as a fractional CPO. And I had to take a moment like, okay, I don't know what the CPO acronym stands for. I'm a chief publicity officer. I was like, okay, you know, that's that's cool, that's your jam. Listen. It is kind of like marketing, right? Before it was just I'm doing more freelance, I'm doing more project-based work. I think the idea of fractional is gaining more and more momentum for a couple of reasons. One, because there's more people coming into the space and it's kind of filling a gap where more business owners are coming into this space and realize I need somebody to help run my company. I need somebody to help in operations. I need that second in command. I don't have the budget or the the the the the time to go and search and find and vet and vet somebody who's a full time second in command, right? So there's the economics that make a lot of sense, right? I often say to a company, and even some at the low seven figures, they're like, I need a full time COO. And I was like, no, you don't. Not until you're at twenty million. Cause here's why. You think you need a full time COO because you're looking at the lens of your business when it's complex. And there's so much that needs to happen. And guess what? You are the operator. So it feels like I need somebody to take a full-time job just to get everything fixed. But if you bring somebody in, batteries included, at 15 hours a week, that can do it for you, build the structure, create the processes, manage your team, build the dashboards, like that's a done for you solution. You can get that done at a fraction of what you would if you were to invest full time. And also, like I mentioned, there's the time it would take you to go and find somebody. You don't know what you don't know about finding the right operator. And then there's the runway to get that person up to speed because maybe they're not fully vented in your industry, et cetera. So I think there's a lot of value in that way. What I'm noticing and how I'm doing this at the COO solution is that I I feel fractionals are the best COOs. I feel like there's not a knock to those that are full time operators, but I think when you're a fractional, you have an entrepreneurial mind as well. Because you've been focused in some way, shape, or form about I need to get clients. I need to build my own pipeline. I need to get out there in some way. And so when you're having that table conversation with that CEO, you could be at the same mindset with them because you've been in that owner's box, even if it's just a matter of just how you get clients and build your own business in some regard. And so that's how I'm building it. I'm not looking to bring on full time. I'm not looking to do placement. I'm looking for those that I say, listen, you can have one foot in the COO solution and you can have one foot out of the COO solution. And the foot out is your own clients at varying degree, whatever floats your boat, that's totally fine. But if you want to supplement that with what I provide in here, that works really well. And I feel like some of the best COOs like that model because they don't want to be full in with Derek and they don't want to be full in on something else on their own because it's all dependent upon them to get clients. So I think a combination of both is what's working really, really well for me. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's it's interesting the hybrid that kind appear, right, through experience and some wisdom and some hard knocks, so to speak, where you start to figure out it's not black and white. There's so much nuance, so much gray in building these businesses and finding the right solution for yourself. Mickey Anderson: It's it's interesting the hybrids that kind of appear, through experience and some wisdom and some hard knocks, so to speak, where you start to figure out it's not black and white. There's so much nuance and so much gray in building these businesses and finding the right solution for yourself as well. Derek Fredrickson: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Now Derek, for the listeners who are maybe making that transition from operator into CEO into scaling their business and Mickey Anderson: Now, Derek, for the listeners who are maybe making that transition from operator into CEO into scaling their business and focus more Derek Fredrickson: Focus more on things like talent, more like prioritization and vision. Do you have any advice or words of wisdom or things you'd like to share to the audience who's going through Mickey Anderson: on things like talent, more like prioritization and vision. Do you have any advice or words of wisdom or things you'd like to share to the audience who's going through that transition? Derek Fredrickson: that transition? Yeah, it's something that w I'm doing in my business now and it's something that we do with all of our clients, which is I call it my 10 3-1. and so when I started the C Row solution, I was very deliberate to start with the end in mind. And because I had seen as an operator for so many companies, not to judge, but by default, the business had been. Built out where it was a situation where the tail was wagging the dog, where the owner was also the operator, and they couldn't feel free to focus on where I want the business to go because I'm too bogged down into where the business is today. And so I was very deliberate to say, okay, 103-1, which stands for 10 year target, three year picture, one year plan. So I'm starting to say, here's what I want this to look like in 10 years. Now I 10 years is a hell of a long time out, right? So it's it's high level, but it could be number of clients. Number of COOs, profit, revenue, my involvement, whatever that may look like. But in order to feel confident that I'm on track to get to my 10-year target, I need to see where I'm going to be at my three-year picture. That's a little bit more clear in terms of what does it really gonna start to take to get there. And then I reverse engineer and say, okay, my one-year plan has to be damn well on track to make sure I get my three-year picture. So the things I'm doing today are going to shape where I'll be in three years, which is then going to shape where I'm going to be in 10 years. And that's something that I say when I focus on, I do three things: vision, sales, team development. That's my vision. That's what I focus on. Now that may look like I'm in a spreadsheet and I'm looking at numbers and I'm doing formulas and I'm being more into that operator brain. It may just also be like I'm doing visionary activities like being on podcasts, or I'm gonna be writing a book next year, or I'm gonna be doing more speaking, just getting out there, being the rainmaker of my company. Notice how I said rainmaker of my company as opposed to rainmaker of me in that way. Mickey Anderson: Uh-huh. Derek Fredrickson: and so that's kind of what I'm really focused on. I'm I and I say this to clients if you have a situation where the tail has been wagging the dog, there's no judgment, but we need to reverse that dynamic and get you back into the owner's seat, less into the operator seat, and get you focused more on what your 1031 could be. Or sometimes I say it's your North Star, which is your why, right? Why did you start the business and maybe that got squashed when you've been focused so much on the day to day? Let's tap back into that because that's gonna get you your mojo back, and then you can feel More confident about a bigger future. So I'm very much in that space. I enjoy that. I'm building everything for scale to support that model as opposed to having it try to be more about me. I'm very less ego attached than I was in the very beginning when I started this, as I mentioned. So but it's a transition, right? I mean, it's a work in progress. This is by no means a, you know, a finished project. It's gonna be going on for quite some time. yeah. I mean, I I love the the idea of kind of working backwards. Mickey Anderson: I love the the idea of kind of working backwards ten years to three years to one year. we used to do that. I was a D one swimmer and we used to do the same thing. we used to ha use this diagram of a a rocket ship and at the top of the rocket ship was the big ultimate goal, which was typically like the Olympics or whatever. And then beneath that you would have kind of the milestones and then the plan on how to get there and then what this next year of training needed to look like in order to get there and the times and splits you needed to have. Derek Fredrickson: 10 years to three years to one year. we used to do that when I was a D1 swimmer and we used to do the of the we used to use this diagram of a a rocket ship? And the top of the rocket ship was the big ultimate goal, which was typically like the Olympics or whatever. And then beneath that, you would have kind of the milestones and then the plan on how to get there and then what this next year of training needed to look like in order to get there, the times and splits you needed to have. So I love how simple. Mickey Anderson: So I love how simple, how actionable that advice is. And I think it's also a way to really kind of hone in, as you said, dial in that visionary idea generator that can sometimes give people a little bit of whiplash, how to really dial that in into a focused vision for the company. Derek Fredrickson: How actionable that advice is. And I think it's also a way to really kind of hone in, as you said, dial in that visionary idea generator that can sometimes give people a little bit of whiplash. Yeah. How to really dial that in into a focused vision for the company. I think one of the things if if I always believe that if a visionary entrepreneur has real great clarity on where they're going. It gives them tremendous confidence and confidence for a business owner is everything. If they're not feeling confident, they're not going to make those decisions, they're not going to place those bets on the business, and they're going to feel like I'm I'm I'm kind of gunshy. I'm not sure about taking the next move. So if you can get really clear on your vision, whatever that may look like, and again, I I don't I don't know how many leads I need every single week in 10 years' time to reach my 10-year target. I know how many leads I need this week in order to get to my one-year plan, which will give me my three-year target picture, 10-year exactly. You get the idea. Mickey Anderson: Yep, yep, that's fabulous. Derek, this has been absolutely wonderful. So for the listeners who want to check out the COO solution and find you online, where would you like them to head? Derek Fredrickson: Yeah, that's fabulous. Derek, this has been absolutely wonderful. So for the listeners who want to check out the COO solution and find you online, where would you like them to head? Yeah, thank you, Mickey. This is great conversation. the website is the COO solution.com. like I mentioned, if you're an operator, COO, and looking to explore, there's a opportunity to take the next step to see about becoming a part of our team. and then if you're a business owner that might be thinking about, I wonder if I need the idea of a fractional COO, there's a quiz there as well. Like I mentioned, our one lead magnet, if you will. that helps them understand a bit about where their business is and what some of the blocks are that might prevent them from getting into that owner seat if they're really in the operator seat. So that's also at the website. perfect. And I'll make sure those links are in the description of the episode. Thank you everyone for listening, Derek. Thank you for the conversation. It was wonderful. And listeners, please make sure to subscribe and follow Unleashed for our next Mickey Anderson: Perfect. And I'll make sure those links are in the description of the episode. Thank you everyone for listening. Derek, thank you for the wonderful conversation. And listeners, please make sure to subscribe and follow Unleashed for our next episodes.