Latest / Early Edition with Ryan Bridge / Helmut Modlik: Ngati Toa CEO talks his upcoming Treaty of Waitangi debate with David Seymour

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Helmut Modlik: Ngati Toa CEO talks his upcoming Treaty of Waitangi debate with David Seymour · Early Edition with Ryan Bridge

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Big debate coming tonight on the Treaty Principles Build. This
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: is David Seymour's topic, Djuur and he will be taking
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: on the Nazi Tower chief executive Helmet Modlick. They'll go
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: head to head in a public debate. It will take
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: place at eight pm this evening. It's been live streamed
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: on all sorts of different platforms and Helmet Modlick is
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: with us this morning.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Helmet. Some say we shouldn't be.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Debating the treaty. That is a very strong line coming
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: from the lights of the party, Maori. Does this mean
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: you disagree we do need the debate.
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: I agree entirely that we should have a debate, which
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: is why I've made myself available to participate in it.
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: What I was discomforted by was the lack of substantive
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: information and thought exchange. We were only getting curated SoundBite
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: versions of one position. And so yeah, I'm looking forward
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: to the debate, welcome it.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: What do you make of Taparty Maori's approach to this,
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: which has been to throw words like genocide and white
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: supremacist out there.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: What's your take on their stance?
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: Well, I can't speak for the party, Maori of course.
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: But what I do know is that the historical record
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: of the harm that has occurred in the Maori community
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: as a consequence of breaches of they to await tonguey
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: are hard to overstate, and in fact that my memory
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: shoves me right. I believe the word genocide was originally
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: used by the white Tonguy tribunal connection with the harm
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: that resulted to the Taranaki people as a consequence of breaches.
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: So I understand the feeling, I understand the language, I
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: understand the passion, and there's no avoid at this point
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: in our history, though, I think the time for us
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: is here as for us to exchange ideas about to
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: go forward.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Okay, this sounds promising. This sounds like you're going to
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: have a robust discussion. Do you you've seen that, You've
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: seen that the principles that the government has put forward,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: David Siemas put forward.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: You know the government has the power to govern.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: Respecting the Ewi and hapoo and being equal before the law.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: Is there anything wrong with those?
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah? Well, okay, you don't want me to give one
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: of the game plans for tonight, bud, but just really quickly,
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: the government has the right to govern, sees who and
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: how did they get their right? Well, that's a rather
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: fundamental question that will examine tonight. Secondly, the rights that
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: accrue to the hapoo of In fact, the bill says
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: that they are as outlined in the treaty, but constrained
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: by whatever the government of the day actually concedes that
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: they may be. So there's a lot of logical flaws,
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: even on the question of equality before the law. I'll
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: look forward to pointing out tonight how equality before the
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: law is a fiction today, yesterday, and probably tomorrow. So
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: there's a lot of logical faus which I look forward
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: to servicing. And yeah, well that's it.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: How the big one here then, you mentioned it to
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: start with that the governor has the right to govern?
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: You say, says who, When did that happen?
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: It's the fundamental question is whether Maori seated sovereignty, whether
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: the crown, whether the government is sovereign in New Zealand.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: They have the right to make laws. You don't think
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: they do.
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: You have hit the nail on the head, Ryan, and
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: I look.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Forward to where does that leave us?
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: It leaves us right where we are, Ryan, right where
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: we are. So the real issue isn't about the technicalities.
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: The real issue has always is the substance of our
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: civil society. Do we actually believe in things like truth
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: and justice and freedoms and equality before the earth? We do? Then, call,
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: let's look with crystal clear eyes and what if that
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: got us to where we're at. We're in a great place.
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: This is an awesome place with an awesome group of
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: people and democracy call, So let's not ignore that, but
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: let's be truthful about what got us here and how
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: to go forward in the way that Kiwis actually wants.
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: That's it both, all right?
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: Hey, hey, it sounds like it's going to be a
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: good debate. Look forward to watching it. Helmet, thanks so
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: much for your time. For more from News Talk sed B,
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: listen
• 4:04
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• 4:07
  Speaker 3: you wherever you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.