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The Fire Hardened Garden: Wildfire-Ready Landscapes and Defensible Space · In the Garden with UC Master Gardeners

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: This is K U C I.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: The opinions and views expressed in this program do not reflect those of KECI, its management, or the UC Board of Regents.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: Today on In the Garden with UC Master Gardeners, we're talking about something every Southern California gardener and homeowner should think about wildfire safety.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: In Southern California, hot temperatures, dry vegetation, Santa Ana winds, drought are all fueling the intensity of our wildfires.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: In January 2025, Southern California experienced two of the most destructive wildfires in Southern California history, the Palisades Fire and the Eaton Fire.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: Between the two, more than 16,000 structures were destroyed and financial losses exceeded 50 billion.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Darren Vallone.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: This is In the Garden with UC Master Gardeners, and I'm pleased to have Nathan Babbitt from Orange County Fire Authority, who is an expert on wildfire safety.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: Nathan will help us discuss how we can maintain our homes and importantly our landscapes to be wildfire safe.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: Nathan, thank you for joining us.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: Really appreciate you taking the time to be here today.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: Could you just tell us your role here at Orange County Fire Authority?
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you for having us.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for inviting us on.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Nathan Babbitt.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: You've been with Orange County Fire Authority since January uh since March of 2020, so about over six years now.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: I've been in our community wildfire mitigation unit since uh January of 2023.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Our community risk production department is divided into three sections: planning and development, prevention field services, and then my group, the community wildfire mitigation.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: So our the current section I'm working in, we do anything in the we do a lot of it in the wildland urban interface areas.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: So we're doing complaint investigation, annual defensible space inspections, home assessments, uh escrow inspections for uh if it's required on your property during escrow.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um really just edu more educating homeowners on what they can do to better prepare their homes and communities uh to withstand the wildfire.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: Excellent.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I you know we're gonna get into a lot of that in more detail.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: Our show is fire hardening your home and landscape.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe just to start, can you give a exact or synopsis of what fire hardening means?
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: So fire hardening uh it means taking a look at not only uh your landscaping, but also your home itself.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um so it's walking around your property, reducing the fuel load on your property.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people think when we talk about vegetation management, like moonscaping everything, it can still look nice, it can still be pretty, uh just reducing fuel loads and then running to your home and um either retrofitting it or upgrading it or like making certain modifications to it to make it more resistive to amber intrusion, direct flames, so that's if a fire actually is coming out of the open space into your backyard.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh radiant heat is if neighboring vegetation or neighboring home is on fire.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: So there's different uh construction features and uh tips and tricks that you can do to make sure that it stands, gets it the best shot in the event of a wildfire.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of the big high level.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: And um I was recently reading, I know University of California, they've actually done some studies and they've shown that home hardening and defensible space management, it really does help protect structures in the case of wildfires.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: They've they've gone out and they've studied this and they're starting to show you know it's definitely having a positive effect on survival rate of the structures.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, in terms of California, recently read that uh new regulations will require homeowners to adopt basically defensible spaces next to their properties.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: So zero to five feet.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um are you familiar with some of these new regulations and what changes they may have for homeowners?
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so uh right now defensible space itself has been required um up to 100 foot or the parcel line, whichever's closer since I believe 2005.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh so we've been doing uh defensible space inspections on homes in very high fire hazard severity zones.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: However, real quick, sorry, when you say required, is this something that today homeowners are meant to be maintaining?
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, we'll talk a little uh we can talk a little bit later on about the severity zones, but if in the local area, if you're in a very high fire hazard severity zone, uh you need to be maintaining dispensable space, defensible space on your property.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: And like I said, that's uh zero to one hundred foot or the property line, so whatever's closer.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we can't jump parcel lines, we can't uh make you can't go in your neighbor's yard and cut their stuff, right?
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: So we take a look at that and we do annual inspections on that.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: So right now we're in the community in those very high areas, you know, looking at single-family homes, working with HOAs.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: However, in regards to zone zero, it's basically creating a new zone within that 100-foot or that processor line requirement.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the first five foot around the house, making sure that we have uh they actually divided it, that zone zero divided into two zones, a non-um safety zone, basically underneath the eaves and back to your structure wall.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, or one foot from the wall if there is no Eve on your home, and basically nothing combustible there at all.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh all of you know vegetation pulled away.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: So if you have a two-foot Eve, nothing within two foot of the house, and then the remaining distance to five foot is a low combustibility zone.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: So that's then taking a look at the vegetation around there, making sure that it's being trimmed, limbed, and maintained in a way that's going to reduce that direct flame on the home.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and a big thing that comes up a lot about it is trees.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: Existing trees are okay if they're in that zone zero.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to go in and remove your trees, they just need to be cut and trimmed a certain way to meet the new requirements.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: So if it's below an Eve, so if it's like a shade tree that's below the Eve line, we're asking the state rule law, the state requirements now or um recommended requirements because it's still going through the procedure for full approval.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh pull that five foot out or underneath out from underneath your eaves.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: If you have a tree over your roof, pulling it five foot from the roof line itself.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so existing trees can't stay.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh they're they're asking no new trees be planted in that zone zero, but existing is okay.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: And like I said, it's been approved by the Board of Forestry.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: There's still several procedural processes it needs to go through to be approved.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so the Board of Forestry approved it at the end of August.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: It went to the Office of Administrative Law for additional review.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: They're kind of the group that dots the I's and crosses the T's and makes sure all the code references line up.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, they did find some um they had some questions on it, so they kicked it back to the Board of Forestry for additional clarification.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um so we're one step closer to it becoming a requirement, but um it's moving that way.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: However, like I said, it's still not technically enforceable in our jurisdiction.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Some um I believe Ventura County went ahead and just adopted it as is locally.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we are waiting until it's fully implemented by the state, and then we will implement the timeline on that.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um but right now it's moved past the Board of Forestry, several other procedures it needs to go through.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: All the information is on the Board of Forestry's webpage.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: So any of your listeners can go on there and look at the proposed rule plead, and that's what's moving through those additional procedural processes.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then once we get the go-ahead or the full approval, it's gonna be a huge education campaign with our homeowners and our HOAs in those very high fire hazard severity zones on you know what the timeline is and what that zone zero is gonna look like.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, that's excellent.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: And we'll get into this obviously in more detail, but just since we're on this topic, how how do you let homeowners know?
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: So let's say these changes do get fully implemented in Orange County and folks have to start paying more attention to the zero to five foot zone.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: How does that get communicated?
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: Is that through homeowners' associations?
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: Is it yeah?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: So right now, like I say, it's still being the education piece is still being worked on and how we're going to reach out to all these homes.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because one of the unique things about the zone zero requirements is that no one is grandfathered in.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of times when the state puts new regulations in, it's new construction going forward.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this is one of the few cases where it's everything existing in those very high fire hazard severity zones on the local level will be required to do this.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: So um, like I said, the higher level individuals are making those decisions, but it's gonna be possibly you know, HOA presentations, community events, mailers potentially.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: There's gonna be a huge, a huge education piece to make sure that we're getting that information out there because we want to make sure that everyone's prepared.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we found even with our current defensible space inspections that education goes a long way over enforcement.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd rather work with you one-on-one and explain why it needs to be done and what you know what requirements we're looking at, as opposed to just issuing you a notice and saying handle it.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of the last resort kind of approach we want to take.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: So when it comes to zone zero, it's gonna be working with our cities, working with the county, working with your HOA if you live in an HOA, and then even on a smaller level, if it's a single family, no HOA, possibly sending a mailer out.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um just letting them know, hey, this isn't now in effect, this is the these are the requirements, this is what we're looking for.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's divided into three and a five-year timeline.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: This is what needs to be done in three years by five years, so it's gonna be um it's gonna be interesting.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be fun.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, that's uh so you do feel it's gonna get it will go into effect.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: Just the way I mean from what we've been hearing from Calfire, just the way it's going, it's it's kind of going down that route.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: So, but it's not as um looking at the rule plead, it's not as I'd say, scary as some you know people initially thought it would be.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, there's some great examples of good, beautiful, you know, still vegetative zone zeros.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's completely moonscaping it, it's not having you put five foot of concrete completely around the house.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's just let's take a look at some stuff closer to the home, let's take a look at some of the planting, the landscaping around there, and kind of like the rest of defensible space, just make sure it's being maintained in a certain way, being properly irrigated, removal of dead and dying plant material, all that.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: So excellent.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: And that's great because uh ironically, when I was going through some of these regulations preparing for a discussion today, uh, I was gonna share.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: We've been in our house 26 years.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: Uh a buddy of mine actually went to Cal, got his degree in landscape architecture, and I was the first, I was his first uh design.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like he never designed anything before.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, hey, do you want to design our yard for a new house?
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think I gave him a bottle of wine.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: I think that was the cost.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: I can't complain, it's fine, it's beautiful, love it.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: But then I was reading these new regulations at Crate Myrtle that's right next to my house.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: I have uh warp magnolia.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: These were both his suggestions.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, thank goodness he was smart enough not to put a full magnolia right next to my house.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but I went out, you know, reading about this new regulation.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: I went out and I measured the crate myrtle is four feet and the magnolia is three and a half feet.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so my first reaction was, oh wow, I'm either gonna have to grip these out, relocate these.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: So it's good to hear maybe that's not gonna be the case.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: You we Yeah, so like you said, the rule pleads online from what we're seeing, especially trees is a very hot topic regarding the zone zero and how they're gonna handle that.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, if it's you know, if it's an existing tree and it can be limbed to the requirements in the rule plead, um it's perfectly okay.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, and I'll probably have to look at that more because the crepe myrtle, it definitely starts to get squiggly, you know, little branches up under the eaves.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it'll be just like I said, from what we're seeing, if it's underneath trees, pulling it out from underneath the eaves.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: If it's above the roof line, cutting it back five foot from the top of the roof.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I actually was working with the Natureway this morning, walking with them, and they had some trees between the homes, uh duplex kind of community, uh very narrow, you know, about five foot exactly between homes, uh, between the two buildings, and they had a row of trees in there.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's an established community, and that was one of their questions was do these have to go?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: And they are they actually just had their tree company come through and limb everything.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: Naturally, they just decided to limb it over five foot off the roof.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a little tough right now, but I said there's no requirements on how tall the tree can go, right?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: So you just need to now make sure it doesn't get lower than five foot to that roof line, but you can have the canopy fill out above.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: We're just now need to take a look at the leaflet and stuff like that on the roofs, but you know, you don't have to completely come through and clear cut this, it's just kind of got ahead of the curve.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: Just now let it continue to grow up, but keep those five foot lift up off the roof, and it'll be okay.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, that's good.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so maybe I will encourage our listeners to go out and review some of you said again.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's on the Board of Forestry's uh webpage.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I believe if you Google Board of Forestry Zone Zero Requirements, um, it can lead you there.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I also think we're getting ready to put an FAQ on our webpage as well.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I I believe the link's in there also.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: Once that's uploaded, it should be the end of this month, early next month.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh once that's uploaded, people can go see what the full FAQs are, click on the link, and it'll take you to that webpage.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: Perfect.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I was going to mention, because again, when I just read this and I was thinking, oh wow, if I want to relocate these trees, you know, and we're got not just trees, everything.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: There could be costs associated with some of this.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I did read that, and again, probably more to come on this, but there is SB 894 that was maybe approved or possibly approved that could create some low-cost loans for homeowners who are looking to either fire harden or create this clearance area.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's one of the things now that um I've been kind of that we've been kind of seeing as well, is the state has really kind of gone down the regulations route.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then now they're also trying to make sure that, you know, for the individuals who might be on a fixed income or can't afford these changes, now there's avenues to they're working on creating avenues to eventually get them to, you know, like I said, low-cost loans, grants, stuff like that, on making sure that they meet the new requirements.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: But um, that's kind of the approach they're taking now.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I I anticipate more of that coming down the line as the years go on.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's great.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: That's great.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: And then maybe one last thing on on the new uh regulations that are coming.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: There you mentioned they're going to be phase some three, five years, so obviously more to come on that.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: There's also some disclosures that I read may impact sellers of properties.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: Are those already in place, or is that something that will be new?
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: So that's already in place.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: So right now, if you live in a very high fire hazard severity zone or a high fire hazard severity zone, um it is it was formerly known as Assembly Bill 38.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: They rotate the assembly bill number.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: So we at OCFA refer to it as the defensible space disclosure.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's another disclosure form that needs to go into the escrow packet.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: If you live, like I said, in a very high fire hazard severity zone or a high fire hazard severity zone.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: And basically, before escrow closes, we come out, we walk just your property, take a look, and if there's any defensible space issues that we see, we have to disclose to the seller and the buyer what we see, and then it's up to the seller and the buyer.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's between the seller and the buyer on who wants to take on um cleaning that up.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's just it's not designed to hold up the sale of escrow.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's just another disclosure form in the long list of disclosure forms you have when you go to sell a home.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but it's just basically us coming out doing a defensible space inspection and um letting the buyer and the seller know, like, hey, for example, in a lot of the individual homeowner lots, it's dead palm fronds or there's some you know leaf litter up on the roof and just let them know, hey, you know, that needs to be removed or that needs to be lifted up or stuff like that.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: So already required.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um we also uh it's on the realtors to call us out.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't want their listeners to think that we're driving through neighborhoods looking for escrow signs and they haven't been there.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um so if you are an escrow and you're not sure if you've done that yet, please reach out to your realtor.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: They can type in OCA or go to our webpage, OCFA.org wildfire preparedness.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: There's a link, it takes you to our ready set go page.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: You can schedule home assessments on there, documents, all of our wildfire-related stuff is on that page.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a link that says defensible space disclosure.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: Your realtor will fill the information out.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: It shoots an email to our admin assistant, Jessica, and she uh will contact your realtor and get that scheduled.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: Excellent.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: That is great information.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe this is a good segue into you mentioned the fire zones, the very high, high media.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: Moderate.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: Can you say a little bit more about that and you know have those changed?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, interesting timing right now for our discussion, seeing how we just had a fire in South Orange County where I live.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: I happened to look at the at our fire zone, and we were in the very high fire zone.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, of course, maybe quick uh shout out to you guys.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: You did a phenomenal job uh on Friday.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I think a lot of people were very impressed.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: But so we were in a very high fire zone.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: I was very happy that uh obviously we weren't impacted, a lot of San Clemente wasn't impacted.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: Sad for the people who did lose, handful of people lost their homes.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: But can you just say a little bit more about the very high risk, high risk moderate?
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so the fire hazards of Arizona maps, these are created by the state of California.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: So the office of uh state fire marshal's office creates these maps.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: They were released, the new ones were released last March, and then um the cities had 120 days to adopt them as is or add to them.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, this was the first time around that cities couldn't cities in the county couldn't necessarily remove areas from the severity zones.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: They had to either accept them as the they were developed or increase.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um basically, what we're telling homeowners is it doesn't say you can't live there, it doesn't say you can't build there.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's just telling you, okay, like for your home, you live in the very high.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: All it's saying is that based on the topography, the wind conditions on the worst fired weather kind of day, the temperature, real humidity, native vegetation around it, all that, your area that you're in has a very high probability of being involved in a wildfire in the next 30 to 50 years.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of like a flood map, right?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so because of that, you need to do certain things to your vegetation around your home to reduce that to then at that point reduce the risk to your home and your community.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: So um, like I said, they're more they're a hazard map, not necessarily a risk leap.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: And they basically, again, being tiered out like that, they let us know where we can and can't enforce things.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, like I said, my community wildfire mitigation group, we can enforce we can enforce defensible space only in a very high fire hazard severity zone for the local area, so that'd be for San Clemene.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and a state responsibility area like Coto de Casa, it's all three.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, very high, high, and moderate.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: But for generally your incorporated cities like San Clemente, San Juan, Laguna Nigel, um we can only enforce defensible space in that very high.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: And then also, if you were to either do a certain amount of retrofits to your home, like I know for roofing, for example, I believe it's if you replace more than 25% and you live in that very high severity zone, the building department will require you to upgrade your whole roof to a Class A non-combustible roof.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it just puts certain additional requirements, requirements on homeowners that live there to make sure that they're you know doing the best they can to protect their community from that probability of being impacted by a wildfire.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um example is also fire in May of 2022.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's a very high fire hazard severity zone, Coronado Point area.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: That whole canyon had no recorded fire history going back to over 100 years at the time.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: But over here in Irvine, Orchard Hills area, they had a it's been very high fire hazard severity zone around that area.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: They had a fire, a wind-driven fire in 2007, the Santiago fire, and then 13 years later, they had another one in 2020, the Silver Auto Fire.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not a guarantee you're going to experience a wildfire in that area.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: They're just taking a look at the 30 to 50 year time span, what's the what's the hazard of one impact in the community?
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what I was gonna ask.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: Does if a very high fire zone has a fire, does that then change the fire risk?
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: Or but it sounds like maybe short term, but no, so from what the map's kind of been developed, is that they do look at fire history.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so the last, I believe, if I'm if I'm remembering correctly, they're supposed to be looking at updating these about every five years.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so they'll go through again and they'll take a look at any changes uh vegetation-wise or fire history related.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, if an area didn't have a lot of fire history, but in the last five years it's increased, now that probability has increased, so that may increase the severity zone for that area in future maps.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, another kind of thing that might reduce it is if you're against open space right now, but in the next you know, five years they put another development behind you, and you're now further from the open space, you might get tiered to a lower because you're not directly against it or you're not as close to it as you were.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: So it's my understanding they're supposed to be looking at revamping these about every five years.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but fire history is taken into account, like I said, topography, weather conditions, all that.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and they run it through a computer and they say basically this is where the zones are.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so kind of from what we were told was this is the first time they used Embercast as a as a modeling tool.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um and for those I'm not familiar with Embercast.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so Embercast is basically um how far an Ember could travel under certain conditions.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh okay.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: So they said under these weather conditions, with these weather.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: winds and this humidity and the vegetation, what size embers are being put up and how far will they travel?
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: And from what we were told, that's where the moderate started and they tiered it back to the open space, to the high, and then the very high.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: So this time around, that's why kind of why the maps um grew in certain areas of Orange County as opposed to the other ones which were adopted, I believe, in 2011, 2012.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: You say grew grew in terms of area or grew in terms of area.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: So more areas being pulled into the very high, some areas being dropped again because of certain, you know, like say topography or new development or something like that.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: But new areas being pulled in because of that new amber casting model.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: Uh one, just a curiosity, when I was looking at my house and I saw this in the very high, we live on a cul-de-sac and there was actually a couple houses at the end of our cul-de-sac that kind of fell into the yellow.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's you know it's I think red and yellow were the two companies like red, orange, and then yellow, something like that.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it was red and orange, but on the end of our street, was that just a kind of a weird map anomaly or is it possible that you know a house kind of across the street a couple houses down could actually fall into a different risk profile?
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: We we do see that a lot.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: So for example we have homes that are split the whole parcel split.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Half the parcel is in the very high and half the parcel is in the high.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: Industry standard and what a lot what many departments across the state are doing is defaulting to the higher.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: So if you find um so if any portion of your parcel touches the very high or has very high on it where you know it's being considered all very high.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: And that's just the way the maps were developed.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: They kind of instead of instead of trying to snap it to parcel lines, they just said hey run it through simulation this is what we're looking at.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: But the big thing to stress is just because you're in a high doesn't mean you're out of that hazard zone.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: So kind of for example uh the recent fire it started in the very high but the winds carried it up into San Juan and into a lot of that area is actually high is where we saw a lot of the fire activity.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: So and something that we educate our HOAs and our homeowners on is our group may only be able to mandate defensible space in the very high but if you're in any kind of map severity zone take a look at our website and implement those vegetation management styles in your community as well because if we're arbitrary lines fire doesn't stop at that right that's going to just gonna go where the wind topography take it.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: So we want to make sure that you know like I said the maps just tell us where certain things can be done but I've had many conversations with HOAs and homeowners saying yeah half your HOAs in the very high and half's in the high but I just do the whole thing because it's not going to stop across the street.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah it's not like oh I'm out of the red zone now this is where I stop kind of thing.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah of course in fact uh just as a sign we were right the fire started kind of very close to where we live kind of and just because of the winds which were quite you know quite strong winds on Friday blew it away from our house and just completely the other direction which was again lucky because the wind's gone the other way who knows uh but maybe this is a great segue.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: So our show is in the garden many of our listeners are going to want to know what type of plants what kind of maintenance should I be doing to lower my risk or at least give me the best chance that my yard is fire safe or my property is fire safe.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I know when looking at the uh on the OCFA website you add the four R's around vegetative management can you just kind of go through that and share the what are the four Rs and what people should be doing?
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah so the four R's are removal, reduction, replacement, and resistance.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: So for example removal would be removing any dead and dying vegetation.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: And again if you're in the very high within 100 foot of your home or the parcel line whichever's closer.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: So we want to make sure that um any dead palm fronds dead leaf litter look at your gutters on your roof stuff like that have that removed if a tree or something's declining that's when you want to kind of do I kind of combine the two replacement and removal um so for example so I've had some work with some homeowners that you know they've had a declining pine tree in the backyard.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's been trimmed up like we like to see you know the risk has been reduced but at that point having a conversation like hey this looks like it's diseased you know maybe we look at removing it and replacing it with a sycamore, an oak, something more resistive right so the replacement and removal kind of coincide with each other that's when you're going to want to look at replacing some of the larger vegetation items like trees like established trees and stuff like that.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: Reduction that's pruning thinning vertical separation so the whole thing with defensible space and what we you know educate through all the different severity zones even if you're against any kind of open space is you really want to make sure that we have spacing appropriate spacing so for example vertical separation we want to make sure that your lower limbs are trimmed high enough up that if any of the understory catches on fire it can't climb into the tree.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because in Orange County that's generally what we see is you know trees catch on fire because something underneath it catches and it allows it to get up in the actual canopy itself.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: So we look at removing those ladder fuels uh reducing giant masses of vegetation so putting spacing in there that's what horizontal spacing is so having a group of three three shrubs and then you know three times the height say a four foot shrub 12 foot away have another three twelve foot away have another three so kind of isolating the fire as well into different pockets.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: Is that the general rule maybe 10 to 12 feet separate 12 feet separation is that the so our yeah so our horizontal separation is um three times the height of whatever the tall shrub is so if it's a four foot shrub we like to see another group of spacing of shrubs about 12 foot away um we kind of got direction this year from the state basically they're considering a ground cover anything two foot or less a shrub two to six foot and then anything taller than six foot a tree form shrub or a tree itself.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so when it comes to our defensible space inspections with HOAs and homeowners we kind of give them those separation requirements and that's when kind of the gray area kicks in we let them determine what they want it to be if you will so you know if you if you got a bunch of cape honeysuckle in your backyard that's you know six foot tall and you just want to cut it all down to two foot hey it's a ground cover now maintain it at two foot.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: You want to isolate it into different pockets of shrubs cool keep it no taller than you know five foot you have three here now you can't have another three until 15 foot away.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: Okay and what about vertical spacing in terms of like you mentioned having maybe a shrub that then would catch on fire and catch the tree on fire.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: What is a good recommendation for vertical spacing then?
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: So state requirements are and we piggyback off the state and in some cases are more restrictive vertical separation is six foot lower limbs six foot minimum from the ground or three times the height of what's ever underneath it.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: So if you have two foot ground cover underneath your tree we're looking at making sure that lower the lowest limb is a minimum six foot from the top of that ground cover.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: You have a you know a three foot shrub underneath there now you're looking at nine foot from the top of that shrub uh that's because the general rule is double the height of what's on fire and that's how tall your flame's going to be so if you have a three foot shrub you're gonna have a six foot flame but if your lowest branch is nine foot you have a nice three foot buffer in case anything else causes it to be a little more intense kind of thing.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm saying with the ground cover two foot ground cover on a four foot flame that lower limb is now six foot up so you're not getting that direct fleet you're not getting that direct flame up into the bottom of the tree which could allow the whole tree to potentially ignite.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of this is on your website absolutely yeah the OCFA org yes OCFA.org and then wildfire preparedness tab and it's where all of our documents all of our stuff is that you can go through and videos, flyers, anything you got um you can also email um I believe it's RSG O C OCFA.org we have an email on our webpage you can shoot an email if you have a question too and then also there's a phone number on there too that you can call and um again our am assistant or one of us will pick it up and we can answer any questions you guys got.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: Well let's take a quick break okay you are listening to in the garden with Master Gardeners of Orange County Darren Vallone and Nathan Babbitt we'll be right back and we'll talk about maybe some plants that are less fireproof and more fireproof.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: Okay welcome back uh here with Nathan Babbitt for OC Fire Authority and so Nathan can you give us some examples of maybe some shrubs trees that would be less fire resistant and maybe some ideas of are there anything that you would say wow those are pretty fire you know those are those would burn up quickly you might want to get those out of your yard and where would you direct people if they want even more information but let's start with what are some of your ideas or that is a bad idea and this would be a better idea.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um just off the top of my head a lot of issues that we see are with cypresses cypresses and junipers.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: But those are evergreens so evergreens but the the issue that we see is the dead material on the inside so no matter what kind of if you go up to a cypress and you open it up all that dead leaf litter is trapped in there and that's going to be receptive to embers and be enough to ignite it.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: The general like I said the general rule when it comes to trees is not only limbing them appropriately but making sure that they're kind of being kept clean as well.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: Not a lot of excessive dead leaf litter not a lot of excessive pine needle buildup in the canopy or around the base of it as well.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: So cypresses another one is certain kind of palm trees um uh like I believe the queen palm and like a fan like the Mexican fan palm just because the tops of them are very fibrous so it's kind of like a bird nest and we tell homeowners if you wanted to start a fire in your backyard a little campfire what do you do?
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's your kindling right you get the finer smaller material first it takes the heat quicker faster expands it out and then you can ignite the larger lock.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: So um but there are trade-offs so for example with palm trees is I've had conversations with homeowners on okay what's it cost you to keep climbing up or having someone paying someone to come out every other year to climb that you know 20 foot tall fan palm to cut the dead palm fronds off.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know what is it cost effective now to remove it and replace it with um a king palm right and what a king palm is one of our approved palm is an approved palm tree for us because when the frond comes off the whole hus comes with it.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's less fibrous so you know you might have to it's just kind of those conversations like that of going eventually everything reaches a point where maintenance gets a little more difficult, gets a little more costly, disease might take it over and then that's the time to take a look at going, all right, let's place it with something on our recommended or approved plant list.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said we like to see a lot of sycamores, oaks a lot of the natives are more fire resistive um king palms are are on our approved list now too because I don't like Southern California everyone loves their palm trees so we found a way to um well and another note on that I know there are some pests that invade certain palms.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think it's quite reached Orange County yet but maybe North San Diego County but I don't know if some of those eventually if it gets here could also then prove to be a fire hazard or would need to be removed.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah it's and that's entirely um yeah we've heard of the palm weevil um like I said I don't know we've gotten some mixed information on if it's actually jumped over Camp Pendleton or not yet but you're right um if you're in a very high fire hazard severity zone and we see a declining palm tree or tree or any vegetation um but it's particularly when it comes to trees we'll either ask you to remove it or get an arborist out there it's a certified arborist out there to take a look and say all right no we can save this or no this is too far gone it needs to be removed and at that point um you would be required to remove that tree.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said under defensible space defensible space doesn't necessarily have planting restrictions it has spacing requirements and um we take a look at you know the only thing that will ever really absolutely ask you to remove in a defensible space situation in those very high fire hazard severity zones is dead and dying plant material.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: So and um like I said it's kind of one of the conversations I have with a lot of homeowners about their palm fronds.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: And how does that again a curiosity how does that generally work its way to the homeowner?
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I've as I mentioned I've been at the same house for 26 years.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah I think we do a fair I'm a Master Gardener well recent Master Gardener so I should be doing a better job but uh I think we do a fair job of kind of keeping our trees pruned and you know making sure areas are clean but how do you go about kind of finding the dead or dying material that you need to take enforcement action over is that just driving around or yeah so we do annual inspections.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right now our inspection program is uh mostly focused on homes that are on the perimeter of communities up against open space to prevent those from igniting and causing a conflagration.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: But again we are in those neighborhoods so if we see you know excess like dead or dying palm fronds if we see a dead tree or something like that.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: Another thing too it's complaint driven.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: So if a homeowner you know is concerned about their neighbor's tree or concerned about an HOA tree they can file a complaint on our website and we do complaint investigation on it and if it meets the requirements for removal it'll be asked to be removed but most of the time it's just a spacing issue or a separation issue not spacing but a separation issue.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: So we're like hey we'll give a notice a little uh door knock and if you can't get a hold someone will we'll act we'll type a notice out mail to the homeowner or the HOA and say hey you know you guys have 60 days 60 days total to cut the lower limbs out of this tree and cut this ground cover down and so that's what we do on our annual inspections our complaint investigation and all that so yeah we're uh we're in the communities those communities that are in those very high high severity zones we're out there um each one of there's six of us right now each one of us is assigned uh a set number of cities and we're the main go-to point and we're you know knocking on doors driving around taking a look okay and I'm guessing uh homeowners associations probably especially if they're in the high severity severity areas are doing the same yeah so our defensible space like I said it's 100 foot or the parcel line whichever's closer but we have codified documents that ask that require HOAs to continue on to that 100 foot so we have common area maintenance guidelines so um making sure the interior slopes are being taken care of making sure any HOA common areas are meeting the same spacing requirements that um we're asking the homeowners of that community to meet as well.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: And we're inspecting those and they get issued notices just like homework would get issued in those very good so back to plants that are good for defensible space where could our listeners go to if they want is there a listing do you maintain a listing so yeah we have a list on our webpage um like I said the OCFA.org go to wildfire preparedness we do have a document library on there there is a set of approved uh plant lists or approved plants that we landscape planting that's what that we like to see from ground covers to trees and shrubs um succulents included too that's one of the things is like I said a lot of homeowners when they see us come out or they want to have a conversation with us they think that we're gonna ask them to you know to moonscape it's like no you can plant things and it can still be pretty and it can still be you know a nice environment it just needs to you know we just want to see certain things planted and want to see certain things maintained a certain way to reduce that that's great because yeah I think so the message that I'm hearing is it's not go out and remove every plant every shrub it's just manage your vegetation in a smart way.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly so a couple questions that come up in the Master Gardener space a lot.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: One is mulch.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_02: So Master Gardeners we recommend mulching it helps conserve water it keeps the soil but you know certain types of mulches are also flammable could be in that zero to five space.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: What is your thoughts on mulch?
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: Is there recommendations you would provide?
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah so under the zone zero mulch uh either rubber or wood would not be required within that five foot what do you say not required should not be used.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: So right now we recommend not using it at all but once that zone zero goes into effect it will have to be removed from that five foot okay um but that doesn't mean you can't have mulch throughout your yard uh so for example those homes in the very high fire hazard severity zone we ask them to keep it no deeper than three inches um if you have it underneath the shrub kind of give some spacing don't mound it up on the shrub up into the bottom you know yes branches of it yep kind of keep a gap I know some some Master Gardeners believe the deeper the mulch the better but this is good it's good to keep in mind.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and the the reason why is we and um if you if IBHS the insurance institute of business and home safety did a demonstration with zone zero and mulch and what they found was mulch under certain conditions it's you know it's dead plant material right it's wood chips stuff like that yes uh can be very receptive to embers and the deeper it is the easier it is to kind of skunk around underneath there and then come up underneath a shrub and ignite that shrub so um we actually did a burn demonstration here where we had a we built this IBA um the business of home safety built one side unhardened with mulch directly against the home and some final vegetation directly against the home they built one exactly almost identical on the other side but they had a a five foot buffer or as concrete paver and then they had mulch outside of that five foot that our firefighters ignited it we turned fans on and blew it and within 30 minutes the home on the left which had the mulch directly to it was completely consumed.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: They came in they put it out and then while this was all going on to the left hand side 30 minutes to fully consume it took another like 15 30 for them to completely extinguish it the mulch that was five foot away was still smoldering the entire time on the right hand side but it couldn't get to the home it couldn't reach the house wow so that's kind of what that zone zero is looking at but it doesn't mean you can't have it in certain areas we caught we like to use the term um strategic use of mulch for obviously our benefits water retention stuff like that but just you know to keep an idea especially being in those severity zones how to use it appropriately if you will to make sure that it's not as receptive to a fire doesn't allow you know embers to get in there and ignite something larger that could become an even larger issue.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: In that zone zero one of the things we're looking at too is uh we've worked talked to some water departments about it is decomposed granite decomposed granite can be decent at water retention uh larger stone right you can have large stone up there we're saying larger like river rock type stuff we don't want to see pea gravel because if you or your gardener goes through with a leaf blower you're gonna blow it all over your yard right kind of want to keep it same put um so there are ways to kind of meet the similar water retention properties of mulch but it's just not going to be mulch itself.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_02: What about turf?
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes we hear you know turf real turf could act as a fire break.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_02: Is that true?
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: If it's maintained appropriately so being you know low, irrigated no patches of dead large patches of dead grass um have that either reseeded or replaced and resoded um the zone zero I believe the zone zero requirements are asking homeowners up five foot to make sure that's always mowed you know three four inches or something like that.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_02: But keep it turf could be allowed in that zero to five foot okay if it's irrigated.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_02: Any thoughts on artificial turf?
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah so artificial turf if it's uh class A rated so it that means it's designed to be fireproof if you will um you'd have to verify that it is class A.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: The Board of Forestry from last I heard they're not necessarily because there's not necessarily a guaranteed way after it's installed to prove it's class A they're just gonna ask people to pull that away from the home as well.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: But another thing too is even outside of that five foot with astro turf or fake turf and all that um a lot of the times too it's taking a look at what the infill is so is it sand or is it you know crushed rubber astro turf crushed rubber petroleum products petroleum products burn um or they can smolder and potentially become an issue so taking a look at what the infill is taking a look at how far away it is from your home you know even taking a look at what's on top of it just like with regular is you have a tree dropping leaves on it and you got just thick you know couple inch set of dead uh deciduous leaves all around the property yeah if it's smoldering through your astroturf and it's those leaves it's gonna ignite right so just again kind of like with the vegetation stuff just being fire smart being aware of what you know just kind of think just changing your perspective on how to approach landscaping but not completely get rid of everything.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yes excellent so for our listeners uh go to ocfa.org slash ready dash set dash go I think that's the website and on there a lot of this information the list of plants that are more fire safe definitely worth reviewing want to jump into a bit we have about 10 minutes left in our show here we thought we weren't going to be able to talk for 55 minutes and now I'm starting to worry we're gonna run out of time uh but we want to jump a little bit this has been great again it's in the garden And so our listeners want to hear about their landscaping, but we should also be looking at the structure of the home as well.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_02: And there's maybe uh Nathan, you could share a bit about you know what to really watch for to prevent these embers from maybe entering the home space and starting a fire there.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so the big thing we get a lot of conversation or a lot of questions about is attic venting.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of the older homes were built with quarter-inch mesh or no mesh in the attics.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: We want to see one eighth inch or see it retrofitted or replaced to one eighth inch, one eighth inch mesh.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um that will still allow your attic to breathe.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: We need it to do what it was designed to do.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: We don't want mold or moisture buildup in there, but it's small enough of a you know of an entrance that larger embers can't get in there to ignite your home.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: So let's see the one-eighth inch mesh.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: We do free home assessments, and you can schedule those on our website.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: We'll come out, we'll spend 30 minutes to an hour with you, depending on how much time or how many questions you have related to your property.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: Look at vegetation and the home itself.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: Another thing we like to take a look at too is the eaves, is a lot of people you know think they have to fully enclose their eaves.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of times it's not possible because of structural limitations or venting.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: Again, venting requirements might not permit a fully retrofitted enclosed Eve.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_01: So we tell homeowners any wood, whether it's wood siding, wood eaves, anything like that, if you see a pencil width or about a pinky width gap, whether that's termite damage, dry rot, or something just naturally pulling up apart, expanding and contracting, throw some painter's cock in there, put a coat of latex paint over it, um, and you're you're meeting that similar intent.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: Embers aren't necessarily an issue if they can't lodge, right?
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: So if they're swirling underneath your eaves and they're open, but all those gaps are you know appropriately sealed, they're gonna swirl and fall out, but then that's when that zone zero comes into effect.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: What are they gonna fall into?
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you prevented it from lodging into your eaves, but is it gonna fall into this giant dock shrub you have underneath your window and ignite it, and now we've found the issue.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of where that zone zero also comes into, is making sure that if they don't lodge and they hit your house and they fall down, what are we falling down into and keeping that fire away from the home?
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_02: What about uh fencing?
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_02: You mentioned uh the roof a little bit earlier.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_02: Are there some?
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_02: And you mentioned about having to replace a whole roof to a new fire.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_02: Are there some that our listeners should be thinking about, wow, is my roof?
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_02: What yeah, what type of roof do I have?
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so um class A non-combustible, and like I said, it would, I believe it's 25% or more in a very high fire hazard severity zone.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: If you uh upgrade or have to work on 25% or more of your roof, it would require the whole roof replacing it.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, in that very high fire hazard severity zone.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_01: But any homeowner should take a look at the roof and go, okay, are my shingles seated appropriately?
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_01: Were there any cracked or missing shingles or cracked or missing tiles?
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: A big thing we see is the bird stops at the end of the rolled Spanish tile.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: Are they installed appropriately?
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: We still need a gap to make sure that you're getting airflow and moisture removed, but how large is that gap?
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, has it fallen out completely?
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because the embers can just go right underneath that Spanish tile and directly on the roof.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, having a roofer come out every couple years, take a look at the flashing up on the top where your second floor joins your first floor, kind of thing.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, making, like I said, kind of with the eaves, any gaps or cracks are sealed.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_01: If you can keep your underlayment protected with asphalt shingles or the rolled Spanish tile or the clay tile or rolled Spanish tile, um, you're generally good to go as long as those are basically installed the way they were the home was built.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: Fencing, kind of same thing.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: We want to take a look at, you know, especially within that first zone zero, that five foot would be required to, in five years, would be required to have a non-combustible section of fencing, right?
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: So if you have a wooden gate that 90s and then directly ties to your home, five foot of that would need to be um replaced once the regulations go into effect.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_01: That starts to timeline.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so wrought iron, cinder block, stuff like that.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that's interesting.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_02: So just so um I understand our listeners.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_02: So today, if you have a fence that kind of ties into your home and it's wood, when this regulation goes into effect, so wood will no longer be emitted.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: So within that five foot, it'd have to be replaced with something non-combustible.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and again, it's gonna be we're gonna work with homeowners, we're not just gonna come out and hit it hit your listeners upside the head with notices.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna make sure that they're educated on it because it's gonna be a big change.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_01: But um one of the things they have seen on fires is wood fencing kind of like a candle wick, and it'll just burn down, and then if it's 90ing and it ties directly into your stucco, it's mounted to your stucco with lag bolts, you've penetrated the protection, and it's can get pulled into your home that way.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really just making sure that you know everything's kind of sealed and kept away from the home itself.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: But uh cinder block, wrought iron, stuff like that's okay.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_01: There's a company that's making um I can I can't remember the name of it, we can't recommend them, but it was kind of cool.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_01: Aluminum wood.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it looks like an aluminum patio aluminum patio cover, but it's like stamped aluminum that looks like wood, of course.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_01: So you can kind of still get that look, but it's non-combustible.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_01: So very good.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so we have yeah, we're we're running out of time here.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_02: I did want to take a little bit of time because we've spent the whole program is ready, set, go.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_02: And we've spent a lot of time on the ready now, which is important, and that's what this show is all about.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_02: So it's been excellent.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe just quickly on the set and go.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_02: Those are the two other aspects that you know, just good for homeowners to know, to be aware of.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so the set is just, you know, you've taken care of your hard home hardening, you've taken care of your vegetation.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's taking the steps to make sure that you have a go bag, know where all your important know what all your important documents are, family photos, make sure they're all kind of in a central location, and that way if you do ever have to evacuate, you can access them quickly and be able to get out uh in a timely fashion.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_01: You're not running around trying to collect all these different items.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we call them the six Ps.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh people and pets, make sure you grab those, papers, important documents, prescriptions, make sure you know what you're taking or where they are, uh pictures, personal computers, so iPads, desktops, laptops, all that, and then plastic.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_01: That'd be your wallets and your purses.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_01: You'd be surprised how many people in the haste of an evacuation leave their wallets sitting on the counter.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you're not going to be permitted to go back home until it's deemed safe.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_01: And that could be, you know, two, three, four, four days possibly.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_01: It could be an extended period of time.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_01: So making sure that you got enough, you know, supplies to get you over a couple day window.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then go is you get that knock on the door, um, or you get the text message from alert OC.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_01: So making sure that you know multiple ways out of your community.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, evacuations are handled by the local law enforcement handled by local law enforcement.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_01: So for a lot of Orange County, it might be the O it might be OC sheriffs.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when a fire is coming through, our incident command will take a look at where it's burning to and tell the sheriff's department or the local law enforcement what we need evacuated.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_01: They'll then go in and implement those evacuations.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it's all handled by the sheriff's side or the law enforcement side, but um, like I said, knowing multiple ways in your community because you might have to go right, you might not be able to go left that day because it's coming that way.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, having a point of like a meeting point.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're out, if you're home and your spouse or partner is out and you can't get a hold of each other, hey, we're gonna meet at the 76 station down, you know, by the five freeway or something like that.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think I read that having a communication plan almost with your spouse, your kids.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_02: Knowing what you're doing with your pets, uh, just kind of having an all-around plan of if we had to evacuate, where are we going and what do we do?
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_01: And the big thing too is with the set and the go that we stress is if you know you might take more time to evacuate, or you just don't feel safe, there's nothing wrong with evacuating before you're told to go.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_01: The worst that happens is you just come back home that night, right?
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_01: Or you get put under an evacuation, but you're already out.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_01: You're not gonna get caught in the smoke, congestion, traffic, stuff like that.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, our firefighters, when they come into a neighborhood, they want to see a fully evacuated neighborhood because life comes before property.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so if people are still running around and they're gonna make sure that you and your family get out safe before they start looking at potentially saving homes.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_01: So what they like to see is a completely evacuated neighborhood.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_01: Don't wait to be told to go.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't feel safe, just grab your stuff and go, and the worst that happens is you come back.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's probably very good advice, actually.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, just uh last Friday, I had snapped a photo of uh Forester Ranch area.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_02: We could see the hillside, you could see the fire from the top of our neighborhood.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I sent it to my son, who uh lives up in LA, and first thing he said is, Wow, that's close.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_02: I hope you have a go bag.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I don't even know what a go bag is, but his advice was spot on.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Nathan, this has been excellent.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate you taking the time.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for having us.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_02: Is there anything else before we wrap up that you know maybe just a couple you know points that you would like to leave, or you'd already mentioned, but uh listeners, uh residents can have the OCFA come out and do a walkthrough of properties?
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so um the only thing I tell like leave with your listeners is visit our webpage and look at all of our documents.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_01: There's videos on there, there's a plethora of information about blow bags, evacuating, how to prevent starting a fire if you're doing landscaping.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like we have a ton of information and how to harden all that.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_01: Take advantage of it.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's free to use, download it, print it, hand it out to your neighbors.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's all available for free use online.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then also, yeah, take advantage of our home assessment.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_01: So the option is you can either schedule it with one of us or there's a survey tool.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_01: So you have two choices.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_01: And if you use a survey tool, it's basically does your roof look like this, does it look like this?
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_01: And you kind of click through the pictures on what your house looks like, what your vegetation looks like, and then it'll email you a report at the end with a list of recommendations.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, or like I said, just schedule it with one of us and we'll come out and spend you know the time needed to make sure that your home is hardened because you know it's landscaping, you can do what you need to do and have great defensible space.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_01: But we've seen it before, if your home isn't hardened, you're gonna have beautiful landscaping, but you might not have a home to come back to.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it's both.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's home hardening and landscaping.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_01: So take advantage of what we got and contact us and get us out there to do home assessments.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_02: That is excellent.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_02: So again, thank you.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_02: Really appreciate you spending the time with us today.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, for our listeners, I think it was great to hear Nathan say this doesn't mean we have to give up our gardens, doesn't mean you have to pull every plant out.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the goal is to create landscapes that are healthy, water-wise, but also fire safe.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that's really the goal.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe on that note, for our listeners, you know, take a walk around your property this week and look at your landscape through a different lens, not just as your garden, but as a defense for your home, should a fire or wildfire happen in the area.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, this is Darren Vallone, been here with Nathan.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_02: You've been listening to In the Garden with UC Master Gardeners.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_02: Hope you enjoyed it.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_02: And until next time, keep gardening, keep learning, and be fire safe.