Latest / Crypto Altruists: Real-World Stories of Social & Environmental Impact with Web3 / Episode 249 - 2,000 Years of Decentralized Coordination: What Web3 Can Learn from Savings Circles, with JUKUMU TZ & The Solar Foundation

Transcript

Episode 249 - 2,000 Years of Decentralized Coordination: What Web3 Can Learn from Savings Circles, with JUKUMU TZ & The Solar Foundation · Crypto Altruists: Real-World Stories of Social & Environmental Impact with Web3

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Today you'll discover the powerful history of savings circles, a form of mutual aid and decentralized coordination that communities have practiced for thousands of years, how Jacumu Tanzania is working with close to 300 savings groups across Tanzania, and how they're partnering with the Solar Foundation to test new delivery models, their recent success-winning best overall concept in the IEEE Connecting the Unconnected challenge, and how this is helping bring solar-powered internet and a computer lab to the Jacumu Community Hub, and how traditional savings practices are blending with new technologies to help communities coordinate and grow.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Crypto Altruists, where we explore the intersections of Web3 and Social Good to the stories of impact-driven builders and offer actionable insights to empower your journey into the world of blockchain for good.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Drew Simon.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Now before we dive in, please remember that this is not financial or legal advice, and always do your own research on any of the projects or investment opportunities that we discussed.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to the Crypto Altruist Podcast for episode 249.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to have you here, so thanks for joining.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: A few weeks back, you may remember that we welcomed Colleen Chase and John Ruth of Solar Foundation on the podcast as part one of a series on decentralized solar and savings circles.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: This is a continuation of that conversation, exploring the work of the Solar Foundation and their partners in Tanzania.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: In part one, we looked at the partnership from a higher level, and today we're going to the ground level, hearing directly from Alanagwe Masalela, who is the director of Jukumu Tanzania, who works with close to 300 savings groups.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: We're also welcoming back the incredible Colleen to co-host this episode.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: But before we dive in, I want to take a moment to talk about savings circles themselves, because I think there's a lot we in Web3 can learn about their history, and I think it adds important context for this conversation.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because long before there were banks, before fintech apps and credit cards, there were people helping people.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Saving circles, also known as rotating savings and credit associations or ROSCAs, are one of humanity's oldest and most enduring financial tools.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: They were documented in China as far back as 200 BCE, and today they exist in virtually every corner of the world.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: In some regions, they are widely used.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: For example, Sub-Saharan Africa, where according to the World Bank, around 25% of people have participated in a savings club.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: The concept is simple.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: A group of people agree to contribute a fixed amount of money at regular intervals, and at each meeting the entire pooled sum goes to one member.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: The process rotates until everyone has received a payout, and then the cycle can begin again.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: So let's go through an example.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: Say 10 individuals in Mexico each want to purchase a solar panel for the roof of their home, with each solar panel costing 1,000 Mexican pesos.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: Each month, the 10 individuals contribute 100 pesos each to the pool.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: The pool, or 1,000 Mexican pesos, is then distributed to one member of the group each month who can use it to buy a solar panel.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: The process repeats for 10 months until every individual has received the pool of 1,000 Mexican pesos.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: The process for who gets paid out first can be decided in a number of ways, like a lottery system or seniority.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: What's remarkable is that these systems operate without contracts, without interest rates, without credit checks.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: They're built entirely on trust solidarity and collective commitment.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: And they go by hundreds of names around the world.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: Tandas in Latin America, Chamas in East Africa, Susus in West Africa and the Caribbean, Chitfunds in India, Stockfelds in South Africa, Ikub in Ethiopia, Hui in Chinese communities, Palawangan in the Philippines, Parna in the Caribbean.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very sorry if I incorrectly pronounced any of those names.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: I really just wanted to show how widely they have been used around the world, with systems often being developed in parallel, independent from each other.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: There are many different names and nuanced approaches, but they all follow the same powerful principle, which is people helping people save.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: For me, this is where it gets interesting for Web3.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: We talk a lot about decentralized coordination, about community governance, about building systems that don't rely on centralized authorities, but communities have been doing this for thousands of years.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: Saving circles, like co-ops, are in many ways original DAOs, decentralized, community governed, built on trust and mutual accountability.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: What Web3 offers isn't a replacement for these traditions.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's an opportunity to enhance them.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Digital tools can help with record keeping, transparency, and coordination across distance.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: Stablecoins and mobile payments can make it easier to participate.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: Smart contracts could provide additional layers of trust and automation.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it's certainly caught on with Web3 projects like Bread Cooperative, Asusu, Grassroots Economics, and more, all exploring this intersection of Web3 and saving circles.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: But the foundation, the human relationships, the solidarity, the collective commitment, that's already there.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's been there for millennia.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: So as we hear from Alanagwe today about the savings groups he works with in Tanzania, I want us to hold that context.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: These aren't communities waiting for Web3 to save them.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: These are communities with deep traditions of mutual aid and coordination.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: And the question is how we can build alongside them in ways that genuinely add value.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: And with that, let's kick off today's conversation with Colleen and Alanagwe.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: So, Alanague, thank you so much for being here today on the Crypto Ultras Podcast.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm also joined by the amazing, wonderful Colleen Chase from Solar Foundation, who's going to be a co-host today.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: And um we're really excited to dive into the work that you're doing with uh Jekumu Tanzania and the partnership with the Solar Foundation on the Saving Circles program, which is really exciting.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much for taking the time to be here today.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: You're welcome.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's great to be here, Drew.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, it's great to have you both here.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, this is gonna be so exciting to dive into the frontline kind of on-the-ground impact and story because we've also we've heard in the first discussion we had with uh with Colleen and John about the uh kind of bigger vision for you know solar foundation and the bigger kind of you know focus on these solar saving circles and the different partnerships.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then today we're really gonna drill into one of those partnerships, of course, which is you know with Jukumu Tanzania.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe to start things off, could you tell us a little bit about yourself and your journey and kind of how you came to lead Jakumu Tanzania?
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_03: Uh thank you, Bru.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Colleen.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, before Jukumu, I think I used to be employed.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_03: I've worked with different companies.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_03: I used to be on a marketing department, and I think that's where I got all these ideas from on uh marketing engagement and how you should sell, especially in our um societies.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_03: So I began to find groups as my plan of uh selling products from different companies that I used to work for.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_03: So I used to uh work with different different social groups around Tanzania, different regions, and actually this gives me a very good class of uh people that I know, the experience and uh the lifestyle of these people, how do they live in their environments, challenges, what do they need.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, you know, sometimes you you take the product to the I mean to these people.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, the product might not be fit for for them, but you know, sometimes because we're just in marketing department and you have to sell, you have to get the number, or sometimes you you even push stuff that you know exactly they don't need, but you you have to sell.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_03: So I think I got all these ideas from that particular angle.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_03: So I remember uh it was uh 2018, 2018 when I I quit being employed and I started to use the groups to do now my own business.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_03: So I started small business less daily using stuff.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_03: It could be food, it could be soap, could be some different, different stuff that I know these women in these groups, you know, in these groups 80% to 90% are women, and they are the ones who they're always around uh family, they're always at home, they're the ones who uh have the budget of how much is spent in their household, expectation.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, with uh African culture, and I've seen this not just in Tanzania, Kenya, Uganda.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, we have something it's called uh Kameza.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_03: It's a it's a swahili word, it's like a slang.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: So Kameza is like uh table money where a husband will always have to leave that money on top of the table for the thing what has to be spent daily.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_03: So I remember we used to we we we started doing business to make sure like uh these women know how to spend this money, know how to save.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_03: So we started that business and it was so interesting.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_03: So from that business, I remember I met one of these uh uh government leaders around uh the wrestling where he had this idea, why don't you just come with the NGO?
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_03: It's like you're helping a lot of women to understand their status, to know how I mean what they can do, I mean, alternatively with what they have.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_03: So, yeah, so I think that was a nice idea for me, but that's where it came from.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_03: It came from the marketing, from mixing with these people, having all these people around.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's great.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: So you really have a uh kind of frontline view of the challenges that's been built over many, many years working in the communities.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, now you're with Jukumo, obviously, and you're doing some really exciting work there.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, maybe just to kind of lay the groundwork before we dive into the partnership with Solar Foundation and the savings groups, do you mind just giving a kind of a higher-level intro to the mission of Jukimu and the kind of problems that you're trying to solve on the ground?
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, you know, Jukumo mostly we're trying to deal with finance issues, you know, uh investment.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_03: We we we want because you know, with us, we believe that especially in our culture, our society, uh economic is could be the main issue that makes everything go in a different way.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_03: You know, when the household doesn't have uh enough investment, they they don't earn anything out of what they do, it's when the husband and the wife will start fighting.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's when their wife will have to go out to look for different loans that might hurt the family, it's when everything is happening.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_03: So we had an idea like, okay, if we find a way to find a solution how we can solve the uh economic issues to find economic solutions where these women can be busy generating or find a way of learning how to save.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_03: Now, with the advantage of technology and changes, now it's easy for them to adapt.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_03: And it's so interesting now with with, I mean, with how they get to learn quickly.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, that's so interesting.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's really cool.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think you're right too.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like when you look at like a lot of the challenges uh that face many places, like a lot of it does come back to economics.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: So at the very least, economics impacts all those other things, right?
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: If you look at like climate change and you know, climate resilience, you know, communities that don't have as much, you know, economic wealth in their community are are not going to be able to, you know, respond as well to climate disasters and stuff like that, right?
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: So it does impact kind of every aspect of life, right?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so yeah, I know I think you're spot on there.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll pass it over to Colleen now because you've been really working on the savings groups uh with uh Alanague and Jacumu.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, sure.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Drew.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: Alanague, I it's interesting that we both share the marketing background.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: I came from marketing at tech companies and I had the same feeling.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: I kept thinking, what is this tech for?
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: What is it really doing in the world, you know, in service to um real people's needs?
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I think we we came from the same interesting background and drew some similar conclusions.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um But I would love to ask you about the saving circles.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I know it's a traditional model in um many countries everywhere.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: The more I started learning about it, the more I thought, um, first of all, it's brilliant and I need to figure out how to use it in my own life.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but also um just how we're, well, you are working with so many different groups of different livelihoods, and then how people um can pool their money into community savings pools and then achieve whatever mission they need for greater economic sovereignty.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and can you tell us a little bit more about how how a traditional savings group works in Tanzania?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm also very curious because I think at one point you mentioned many of them have very clear bylaws.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, if if people don't participate and they don't hold up their end of the bargain, you know, they give them chances, but then they're out.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's really an interesting system.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_03: I believe uh this could be very common in uh in Africa.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_03: Uh not not all, but I would say Kenya, I've seen this, uh, Uganda.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_03: We not very different compared to the rest of the world.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_03: But uh now the nature of these serving groups, we have different uh uh by many ways.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, these community uh participate in these uh serving groups.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I'll try to mention maybe three or four, you know, you can you can understand.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_03: Now, the first one could be we uh this has been for years.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_03: I've seen my mother going through this, and uh, this is called uh sarcos.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_03: Now uh they call it Sarcos Vicoba.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_03: I'll remember the long form of this, but probably not right now.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_03: But uh you can just Google, I think it will explain it how it is.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_03: But now now this is a group of women uh that uh it could be like you know, I say I'm saying women because I've seen women's all the way have been doing this, you know.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_03: So uh now we could see the changes, we have men who are going through uh these saving groups, but uh for years this has been only for women that who have been doing this, and I think because uh of of of how uh the I mean the uh uh traditions uh like in Africa, like you know, women's have been left out, and men are always busy around everywhere.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_03: So now these women are looking for a way to find uh a solution to what they are going through.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_03: So now they are starting a group, and they are what they what they did before now they could all they could have a box, and this box could be their bank account.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_03: Now back then they used to have like an iron box.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_03: Now they go to uh I mean this technician who could could uh give them or make like a like a soft iron box, they'll they'll have a lock there, they'll put some books in that box.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_03: With these books, they will have their names, dates, uh, those dates that they meet, so they could easily mark who attended and what have you uh invest in the in the I mean in the pool.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_03: Now they normally have this point, they I mean they're saying uh they have a standard amount.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_03: Let's say everyone has to share uh a thousand every day.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_03: So in five weeks, I mean in five days, the it's it's it is five thousand, is it?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_03: Now every member will come with that five thousand on that meeting day or I mean attestation day where they all gather and they could have let's say five thousand in the box and they close the box.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_03: After that, they will ask the rest of the members is there anybody who wants to get a loan out of the uh what they have put in the box.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_03: Now, if you want a loan, you need to have let's say two different uh guarantees.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_03: One has to be within a group, another has to be in your household.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_03: You could it could be your husband, it could be your brother, it could be anybody that uh just in case something goes wrong, they could easily uh communicate to.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_03: So that that's circles that have been doing that now.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's possible now it's still there, but uh there's a big changes.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_03: Now we have technology, we have banks.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_03: So some are uh using the banks for the saving, and and that's it.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_03: But we have another uh another different kind of uh this saving cycles.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_03: Now, this is called michezo or game in soy.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_03: I mean game in English.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_03: So michezo is uh when certain group of ladies or a group of individuals or many group of people where they will accept that they will do a certain saving every day, and every day someone will get the money.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_03: So they will list their name.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_03: We are a hundred people, so every day a name has to get a certain amount.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_03: So if we are a hundred people, everybody has to do a thousand every day.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_03: So this is a hundred thousand, and each name will get a hundred thousand that depends with the list.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_03: So they will go from the first one to the last one, and then the game will over and they'll start a new one.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_03: Now, as they start the new one, now you you share your name depend with uh what exactly you want to do with the money.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_03: Other one for this for the school fees, other one for the rent, and everybody will come with their own idea.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_03: So you let's say your school fees will be after two months, so they'll put your name where after two months rotation, you'll get the money.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_03: So that's that's you know that so that has been done and it's still it's going on still today, you know.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_03: The advantage of technology now they have WhatsApp, they could easily communicate, now they can chat on WhatsApp, they can share the list on the WhatsApp.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_03: They don't need I mean they need to have books or paper, they can easily do that easy.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_03: And the last one in which uh now this now I have seen this happening so many it's it's not about money, it's about what exactly do you want.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_03: So we have different uh shops and different uh providers, could be a smartphone, could be a TV, could be curtains, could be a wig.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_03: So that's that's so the member will be will have a pool and they'll say every day you have to do 10,000, and every day someone will get a new wig, or someone will get a new TV, not a money.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_03: Now you get what you you need to get.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_03: So these are three types of saving cycle that uh have seen this happening up till today.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's amazing.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: I remember actually like a while back when I was uh in school, I saw a video in one of my classes on, I think it was like on mutual aid or cooperative, like it was something uh it was a really cool class, and we learned about saving circles.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I saw a video about a group, I think it was in Guatemala, that um did a saving circle to fund a bunch of chicken coops uh for the community, which I thought was really cool.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then it really got me inspired.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then I learned a bit more about how these have been around for like a very long time as a tool for the community to uh to coordinate and and to finance things in with without having a bank or you know, a central authority that's really kind of overseen that, which is really interesting.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: And now that we have technology, it presents a whole nother kind of you know angle to it and presents an opportunity for us to scale these things that have already been working, you know, so well.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but Colleen, you might uh maybe you can dive into the kind of the partnership and the solar lanterns piece, because I know that that's a really interesting uh kind of uh intro to the to the partnership.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, sure, sure.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: So when we started hearing about um these saving circles and we started working with Nita Labs, the our tech partner that's located in Tanzania, who introduced us to Alanague from Dukumu.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: So um we have two local partners, as we discussed in in the previous episode.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um and um we started thinking about how we could work with some of the women's savings groups to help empower them with solar power and and um appliances that use solar, because we were aiming for um more of like an asset-based development model with solar lanterns as the first asset.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's small, it's portable, and it instantly teaches people how solar works.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so we came up with um solar lanterns, which it was interesting, Ellenague.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: I remember when you said it was maybe the first really tangible asset that people had for some of these groups.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so maybe you could talk about that in and um how some of the groups, I know we left it up to the groups to figure out the business model of how they would use the solar lanterns.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: And Ellen Augway can talk about that too, because it was pretty creative and we hadn't really thought about many of these uses.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, actually, you know, actually that's that was a very good time of the year, you know, to get to know I mean Colleen Solar Foundation, John, uh Netalabs, these are my friends.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_03: Uh we have been uh hustling for a while, you know, through many, many stuff.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_03: And the good thing about them is uh actually they are challenging me every day in terms of so many things.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_03: Like they're so good when it comes to uh uh technical issues, uh uh digital and some solution that actually is needed in the in the community.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_03: So when we get a chance to have uh uh with I mean to to I mean to work together with uh solar foundation data labs, and we go these latents.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_03: I know at first.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, we didn't know what exactly we should we could do with the lanterns.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, it is just a lantern, and you know, uh, you know, politics in Africa and everything.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_03: So when you give out the lantern, people just have to take the lantern and go, and you don't expect anything from them.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_03: That's have been happening in Africa.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_03: Like uh the mind uh and uh these uh especially women are the ones who are so affected with this because they're always around home.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_03: So uh the the politics people they always come, they give t-shirts, they give them whatever, they give whatever, they give whatever, and then nothing is returning as them, like what did they gain out of getting the the t-shirt and everything?
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_03: So uh our idea was these latents have to be the change in the group.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_03: So if you are getting the lanterns, you have to make sure uh these latents, because actually it was free.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_03: Though you know, I remember uh Colleen mentioned this, like we don't care, we just have to give to the woman.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_03: Like, ah, it can't be that free because it's oh it has been free, you know, and they they don't change.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_03: So like this this cannot be free.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_03: We'll give to the group.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_03: So the latens was distributed to the group, not to the group member.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_03: Now, and the group had to make sure like if I'm having 10 people in a group, all these 10 people have to participate in this group activity.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_03: And how that has to be done now, that depends with the nature of the group and what are they doing, you know.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_03: So we have we have farmers, we have uh entrepreneurs, we have different different different types of groups that I've been working with.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_03: Now, you have the latents, and how can you use the latents to create uh a different way or to increase the saving and you to learn more about technology and solar?
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_03: So for us, that was the main thing.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_03: If you're getting the latents, the first thing you have to do, you have to you need to have a pool.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_03: You're not paying this latence to Yukumu, but you're paying this latent to your own com I mean to your own pool.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_03: So this is your money, but you have to change this latence from a latence to have something tangible in your group.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_03: So if that's a group, now you have 10 latents, let's say every day you will have to save a thousand in your pool, and after four months, that will be the end, and all members that have been working in that group activity will get the latents.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_03: Now we've own the lantern after four months, not immediately as you give them.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_03: Now, the latents will obviously cost around uh 60,000 to intervene ceilings, 60,000 to 70,000.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_03: So for us, it was not the cost of the lanterns, it was what exactly a group wants to achieve out of this project.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_03: So if you having the lanterns and every member will save a thousand every day, now in a month, you have 30,000 from one member.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_03: Now, if you say this will go for four months, each member will now save 120,000.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_03: Now that's more than what the lanterns cost, but it's what the group needs, you know, like these groups now, they needed this amount of money now to have an idea what exactly the group the group could do with the with the with what we have accumulated.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_03: And if their money, they're allowed to learn around members, they're allowed to use for their own group activities, not out of that.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_03: So that was was was the idea of how we could use the Latins to create that worth in that group and to make sure these groups have this value, you know, because I know after Larrent is now you can get more of what you don't know.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_03: But before that, make sure a group understands the value of its own.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_03: Like you have to make sure you have this money from your own pocket and you have to go to the group.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_03: So with that spirit, nobody will leave the group after you get the money after six months later.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_03: Now everybody will own part of the group.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_03: Because we have been putting all the same energy in the group.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_03: So we all have the same decision in the group.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_03: We all could share what will be generated after with the group, and maybe probably after this project with what you can have, probably you can invest in different projects that can produce profit.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: And now you you now out of you just putting in a group, a group can give you profit too after some time.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_03: Depends with what you have invested in a group.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_03: So that's give the the long, sustainable way the group could to survive out of different different projects.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_03: Because now you have your own investments, you don't answer to anybody, you can make your own money, and every member could get equal profit of what you have generated.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that's was what we saw.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_03: Like this could be the good chance to shine with the groups.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I've loved uh hearing about this one just because it's so cool how something like a solar lantern, which to many might seem like something small, can can go to can turn into something so amazing, create so much economic benefit, which is really cool.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: But uh um, Colleen, you were gonna uh say something.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: Excuse me.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: I was just going to add that the different ways the groups use the lanterns.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um maybe you could give a couple examples on the way about how some it was just used at home to save funds.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: So they didn't have to use, you know, um kerosene or or or other or pay their electricity or whatever.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: It it saved money, but others actually loaned the lanterns out, right?
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Colin.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, uh, you know, but now you know after these groups received the lanterns, now it's it's for it was them to see how they can maximize, you know.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_03: Now we had a group that didn't want to, they just wanted the lanterns to use in the household.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_03: Because you know, it is Africa, Eastern Tanzania.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes you spend a whole night without electricity.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_03: You need a light in your home.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_03: You don't have to buy candle, you don't have to buy kerosene for whatever.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_03: You can just use the lantern.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_03: The good thing about the lantern is it has like 72 hours working, you know.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_03: So you can just use the lantern, and that have been using, I mean, that have been happening in uh in some groups.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_03: But we had other groups that they were uh dealing with a small uh business maybe by the roads.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_03: We have these uh women that they do, they sell some meat, they sell some nuts, they'll sell some fish at the evening time, and they normally have to rent some light every day.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_03: They could pay, let's say, 5,000, I mean 500 or 1,000 every day to get the light.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_03: Now they had a chance to save out of what they used to give out every day.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_03: So now they have their own light, they could use that in their own business, they don't have to buy kerosene.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_03: So actually, now when you when you go to buy, you know, uh in the wrestlam we have a lot of uh chicken that uh these women are making and selling in the evening.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_03: So you when you go to buy chicken, you don't expect to smell uh kerosene out of it because now like things have changed and uh they have the latent, they could uh use them and so like that.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_03: And actually, we we we had others that uh could rent the latter to the different community far from them.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like it's a group and they have 20 latens, and they know in a certain street around the wrestlam, we have a lot of women that they do business, but they're out of these projects.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_03: So for them, it was easy to go and take the Latin to them and give them ways of payment.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_03: Let's say you pay this amount every day, or you pay weekly, or anything.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_03: So it was a way that these groups generated to make sure like they end that uh amount that they have to save every day.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's amazing.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's yeah, that's so cool.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think like one thing that you know we talked about before and that came up a lot in the last episode was around the role that technology can play in helping communities do things that they've been doing for a long time, you know, with more scale, more impact, uh, more efficiently.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I I love that the Solar Savings project is bringing together these traditional practices with new tech, like digital tracking, mobile tools.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned WhatsApp, which has been really a game changer.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: How do you see technology shaping the way that these communities uh coordinate and and and grow?
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, this technology have changed everything that I mean people didn't know before.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_03: How to I mean to operate in these groups and how these uh members could understand like uh the advantage of having technology in what they do in the everyday life.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, these have impacted a lot of changes, you know.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_03: For example, uh right now with uh with the project that we are doing, I mean, we are we are we are sharing with uh Solar Foundation Nether Labs, the engagement of uh uh having uh a hub, I mean a digital hub uh platform had created uh I mean a different attention on how it used to be back then.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: Now it's all it actually it it it gives us to these uh women to understand like now they all need to know how to use the uh their smartphones, not just on WhatsApp.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_03: Now they have experienced a different stuff.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_03: I think you know before before this was a foundation, you know, uh I remember we we had this project with uh uh with uh with uh Nether Labs, it was uh far, it was more on digital.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_03: So I think uh with these changes, now uh you know we have members that they know more on uh crypto, but they don't know if it's crypto.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, we have a group of members that they know public key, but they never had public key before.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like how it formed, and nothing, I mean, is is the issue to them, but they know how.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, if somebody has to send you some USDC, you need to have a public key.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_03: And they didn't go to school, they didn't go anywhere, but they just learned it from this kind of digital project.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_03: So now it's very cool to see how they operate, how they change, how they talk about it.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_03: And they talk about it's like a normal thing that uh that have been happening.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_03: And and the cool stuff that Drew, I want you to understand and call in, you know.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_03: I I I told this uh one of a friend that I believe crypto was meant for Africa, not for America and anywhere else.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_03: Because it fits so easily in Africa because these groups have been decentralized very long time ago.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_03: They just didn't have the uh solutions and technology.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_03: So at the gate to understand and uh engage and to learn about them, it becomes so interesting on how they can run their stuff, uh, and how they can be in their own community, and how they can own their economic issues.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_03: That's amazing.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_03: So, right now, uh with the digital things have changed.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_03: It's now we have WhatsApp call, we have we are we're training through WhatsApp, we have meetings with some uh trainers, and we just do it through WhatsApp, and they love it.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_03: And people have found it so cool.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_03: I think now it's the best time, you know, compared to how it used before.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_03: Like now it's the right time for changes.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: Drew, I I I really love the model that Jacimu uses to train.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um they use a they use a train the trainer model.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: Right, yeah, yeah.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe Alanagwe could talk a little bit about that because it's it's really, I think Alanagwe, are you up to like 300 groups now that you interface with?
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_03: We have, you know, sometimes we'll lose track of number, you know, because uh you're getting, for example, today.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I had a meeting today with some group of 30 ladies, and they all are doing the same business, which is veggies.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_03: They sell veggies around different markets in their wrestler.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_03: And uh they heard about solar saving cycle from one of the DCBT, you know, and for them it was very interesting.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_03: You know, they had to go back, when are you meeting us?
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_03: We already make sure you come with the lessons and all that, you know.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_03: So that's amazing, you know.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_03: Just to hear that call and people are so excited about the project.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_03: But the idea having DCBTs before, we used to call them CBTs.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_03: And uh why CBTs?
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_03: Because uh it's a short form community-based trainers, in which uh this was our first medal.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, our first model we used to uh engage the groups as Jukumu was starting to engage in a groups member.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_03: And why these CBTs?
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_03: Because actually these are uh people that have I mean they have been working with the groups for years, not just uh we found them working with groups already, but the issue was how they could arrange and how they could work with the groups, how they can make sure these groups get some services, how they could make sure these groups get some projects and different stuff that will keep them busy and will increase their uh financial and uh boost their economic ways.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_03: So uh we're starting with CBTs now.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_03: As we change and as we engage the uh the digital, now we we move from CBTs to DCBTs.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_03: Now, DCBTs are are the ones that we have been working more, especially in this solar saving cycle project.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_03: The solar lantern that very good help to make sure they I mean we we are getting the the perfect group for this.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_03: They are the ones who know it a distribute could know around 200 members individually, and they could know like they are living in this street, they are living in this street, they are doing this, they are doing this.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_03: So these are people that are trusted with them, they have been working with them for a very long time.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_03: For us, what we did, we just tried to increase the value of what they are doing to their people.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_03: Like we want to bring that value to them and make sure these people now they could easily understand where they are getting what they are bringing to them.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_03: And they could easily trust because of them, not because of Jukumu, but because of these disabilities, it's easy now to trust that Jukumu can impact the change in what they are.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_03: So these are disabilities.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_03: A good example, like how we get how I get to to meet with these ladies today.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_03: Now, this disability they are moving every day.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_03: They have so many things that they do far from Yukumu.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_03: They are dealing with society in so many ways.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_03: They have different business that they are working with, but with what they they carry when they go to what they do, they have Yukumu too.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_03: To make sure, like, okay, if you're a group, make sure you are in Yukumu.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_03: And uh Yukumu would make sure you are the group, you get one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_03: And to be in this form, you have to make sure you have you are in this platform, you have to make sure you can register in this platform and all that.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_03: So these have been very easy by using DCBTs.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's awesome.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that like you're leveraging these, this like network of community leaders to like build trust as well, which I think is so cool.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and uh one thing you mentioned earlier that I just wanted to really quickly revisit was around like you know, decentralization.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: You made a comment around like that we've been you know doing decentralization for a long time, and that really stood with me because you know, I think that in Web3 we often uh feel that we created or invented decentralization, which is of course not true.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's been used in in communities around the world for for centuries or millennia, even, right?
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think it's really powerful that you know in every aspect of what you're doing, there is these this decentralized element, including with these, you know, DCBTs, right?
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: Which is really cool.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I wanted to shift the focus of the conversation just a bit before we wrap things up here, because I know we're getting the end of our call.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I wanted to talk about the fact that you reached uh that there was recently an award one for the IEEE, I IEEE I IEEE Connect the Unconnected Challenge for the concept of a solar-powered community broadband network.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: And part of this involves building a computer lab at uh the Jacumu Hub.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so tell me more about this project, uh, the computer uh lab, how it will help, how it will help uh support the community, what it means for them.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm curious to hear more about this.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_03: So many communities in Africa, I don't know about much about the rest of the country, but in Tanzania, they have been decentralized for a very long time.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_03: And is not by option must, you know, because uh but I mean the the government have been very far with these uh small communities.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_03: So I remember Colleen, you you you connect me with the guy who we had interview about uh some solar savings cycle, uh Mr.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_03: Several Silver, I don't remember his name, but yes, Nathan Schneider.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, Nathan.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_03: So one of the things that we uh we chat with like you know, uh, for example, on how to use the banks.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_03: You know, these community or these small groups, this small community, they they don't know even how to use these banks, and not all of them until today, they just think the bank is the opportunity to get a loan.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_03: That's what they know.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_03: So when when a bank came in a street, they say, you know, we have a loan, that's what they market, and people just open the bank account expecting the loan will flow in a bank account without doing anything.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_03: So the point is, these people don't have that uh particular knowledge, especially on uh economic issues and all that.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_03: Now, on top of that, these people don't know much about digital.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_03: So uh I gave this example to I think Colina remember I told you this, like you know, if I go through this, I I always ask through I mean through these women that we're um I'm working with in a group of 10 women, you might find two only who knows how to use their smartphone in terms of they they even don't know how to have a Gmail account, and they are using a phone that is the must to have a Gmail, you know, Android, to operate or to use or to download some application.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_03: So when they go to the shop, they just say, I want a smartphone, this is my money, help me to even do the Gmail we need, and then I just have to download because they don't even care how safe or how bad that, you know.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_03: So that level of knowledge, it tells exactly that we are very far in terms of understanding how digital could be productive, but we have the devices, you know, Chinese, I mean Chinese phones are everywhere.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_03: Everybody can can get a smartphone right now, everybody can can get a loan of a smartphone, but what do they do with the smartphone is something else.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_03: Now with with with this with this IEEE, mostly with the with the with the with the lab, is mainly mainly to make sure these DCBTs first understood everything perfect, especially in the platform that these members are using every day.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_03: So they have to understand how safe these people have to know their email and their password.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_03: You don't you ask somebody with a smartphone there?
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_03: I don't have a smartphone, if you show them their email, they don't even understand or remember the password.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_03: So they don't know nothing about that.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_03: They just want to go through WhatsApp, they want to go through Facebook, they want to go through Instagram, they want to go through TikTok without caring if uh the email or whatever that in their phone is is for them or something like that.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_03: So now with with this, it gives a chance to Yukumu and the DCBTs now to increase the knowledge mostly on digital.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_03: Like you have to understand how to use this digital platform.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_03: But the second stuff is that community level.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_03: Now we with digital that we have, uh with DCBTs now, we are we are sure after a very I mean few days to come or whatever, we might have the community that is well communicated and understand well on how to use this platform in one stream, which is very good.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's really cool.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, amazing.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, sounds like an incredible project.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I can't wait to see how it goes and as it comes to life.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I know we're gonna also have you know Needle Labs on the podcast in the future to dive a bit deeper into it as well, which Be really cool.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: The one thing, Drew, I did want to add about the computer lab is that the computer lab is so important for the IEEE award to increase the quality of the internet access that's at the solar-powered Takumu hub where people meet and gather often.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like I think really important for people to realize that once people get solar, the next thing almost, as long as they have basic needs like water and things like that, the next thing people really seek is high-quality, reliable internet access, because that's what it takes to participate in today's world.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: And the computer lab, the idea behind the computer lab at the Jacumu Hub is when groups come in and meet for, let's say, for market days or for their savings groups meetings and different trainings from the digital community-based trainers, is they can also learn how to use today's tools productively and not just not just the fun stuff, I guess.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: But but but really say how do women use the internet at a higher speed, like a 4G or something, um, productively to help them earn more income for their families or to help them get more education for their families, or even to keep up with the world of AI.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: We have very far to go, I know, but it it is a start to be able to get this amazing community access and training where they own, they own the internet.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's a community-based model, um, managed model.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: They own the internet, they own the solar, which is the energy, so they have free energy from the infrastructure that which they already own.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this model is so important.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's not extractive, it's it's really empowering all of the groups, you know, um to see what they want to do with the tools that the rest of us in the world are using today that are that are just so important.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I think the sovereignty issue is it's just something that we feel very strongly about energy sovereignty, financial sovereignty, and and community sovereignty, you know, and resilience.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's what we're trying to get to here with all the parts of this solar saving circle program.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's amazing.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's such a cool uh partnership.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: And and yeah, I can't wait to learn more about it.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I can't wait to see the doors that it opens up.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we talked about the solar lanterns creating so many opportunities for individuals and communities.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_01: I can't wait to see what the computer lab does as well.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I want to respect everyone's time, obviously.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_01: I know we're nearing the end of this conversation.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm curious uh for Al Nagwe and Colleen, what's the best place for folks to go to learn more and how can they support you?
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I think uh for now, mostly we're using uh uh Twitter, X, and uh uh we have uh Instagram where we do uh we post some and we try to explain what exactly is happening.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_03: Uh that's where we have most, and uh um yeah, I think that's where we will mostly share our stories of what is happening in Jukumo so far, but on how they can help, I think it's to it's to support what is happening mostly.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_03: Uh this community actually they need a lot of stuff, not just they need a lot of stuff.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we need uh a lot of projects that can shape uh these women, especially uh to understand uh their value, I mean their positioning, I mean business, education, uh, I mean uh some different stuff, you know, some different stuff they have to learn, or I mean, with what they can how they can engage uh I mean other members.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_03: I think mostly it's uh it's the education, uh uh to increase more technology awareness, uh some new tools they can use to learn through what they're doing every day.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for us, I think that's mostly where we believe uh we need to support the same as uh Solar Foundation is trying to do.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, that's that's exactly right.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: We have a website if people would like to see pictures and learn more about all of the projects, including Jakumu.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it's um solarfoundation.xyz.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_00: Drew, maybe you can put some links in your show notes.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: And we're also on X as well, and we share a lot of things that Jakumu is working on and um also Neta Labs.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: So you can you can stay up to date with with what we're working on, and it's it goes further than solar lanterns.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's also electric pressure cookers, it's solar water pumps, it's um different innovative business ideas that the groups themselves want to pursue.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's amazing.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'll make sure to include all those uh links in the show notes for sure for folks listening along.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_01: So you can see this in action, you can learn more.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_01: Colleen, do you want to close things off?
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, do I want to close things off?
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would love to hear a story um from your point of view of something um that's really had an impact related to the solar saving circles and maybe one of the specific women's groups and their livelihoods.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, you know, Corinne, like everything had a I mean, had an impact.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_03: The the idea of uh engaging these women in their own groups and them having a pool, that idea of them understanding the importance of savings, uh and creating ways that they could think on how they can use their saving to invest, that's that's amazing enough, you know, because we have witnessed these groups coming with different uh ideas on what they can do next from one step to another.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_03: Which before we never had a chance to hear from them.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_03: Uh at calling, like for example, you know, now with this, uh we have a group of farmers that before we didn't know if we can have a time for them to come together and have the land that they can share and they can have a solar pump.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm saying like uh the whole uh project have created different way of thinking to this member.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_03: Uh it has created a very positive way of thinking on the next move of the groups on what they want to do.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_03: It has created the unity, it has created the sharing spirit, it has created so many things that before it was too hard to make them fit in those kind of I mean ideologies.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_03: So it's it's amazing in us, you know, to to see uh these groups understand that okay, if we are starting with uh this amount, we're expecting after after three months we have this amount, and with this amount, we can invest in this.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_03: Now, as we invest, we can easily now look for how we can ask to get a certain fund maybe to boost more on what they are doing or to increase ways on what they have started to do, in which you know I am the one who have been telling so many people in this.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's why I think we could easily come with that idea.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_03: So, with me, on how I have been doing my stuff, I've always started to do things before ask.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_03: I think that I I like to do that that way because it's easily to show what you have when you ask.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like, okay, I've been doing this for one, two, three, four, five years, and this is what I achieved.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_03: So, with what I achieved, it's easy to influence somebody else to share some energy or to increase some uh stuff that you actually have missed through the way that you have been doing the same thing.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_03: So, uh with uh this project, Colleen, I can't say specific specifically, this group.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_03: I think I've witnessed the challenge through every group that we have in this project.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_03: I've witnessed how they think and how they want to collaborate.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_03: Now, the level of transparency because of the uh platform that we are using.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_03: Now people are not afraid to share, you know, and and amazing enough, you know, before they used to have savings, and I think in one way or another, probably they had issues before.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_03: So as we started this, we make sure that they're starting a very new uh pool out of what they had before.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like if I know probably you you had a bank, probably you you are you you had a box somewhere where you save your money, and probably in what you had before, there was trouble already.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_03: You know, probably a chairman, a secretary have taken some amount, you don't know, because there's no that transparency.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_03: Now, as we start these new projects, we don't want to mix with what you used to do.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_03: Let's start afresh so you can all learn what can bring changes as you do uh I mean as you improve your I mean transparency, as you improve your engagement level, as you improve to use this, I mean platform, the digital platform, and everything.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_03: So it's amazing enough, Colleen.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_00: Ah, what a perfect transition.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, all Inagwe.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_00: What a perfect transition to the next um podcast episode with Netolabs, don't you think, Drew?
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think so.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was amazing.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm so thankful to both you, uh, Colleen and Alnagwe for being here today, sharing your story, uh taking the time to really kind of walk us through the impact has been amazing.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I can't wait for the next one.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, thank you so much to both of you for being here.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'll make sure to share everything in the show notes in terms of links so folks can follow along.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Alnagwe and Colleen, thank you so much uh for being a part of this today.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's been really fun.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Drew.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for hosting us.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_00: And Alanagwe, thank you for inspiring me every day with with your your work in the world.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I didn't know.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_03: I I thought I'm the one inspired.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't know about inspiring anybody.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_01: And that was Alanagwe Masalela of Zukumu, Tanzania, and Colin Chase of the Solar Foundation.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_01: What stands out to me is how much wisdom already exists in these communities.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_01: Savings groups aren't a new invention.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_01: They're a centuries-old practice of mutual aid and collective coordination.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_01: And what Jukimu is doing is honoring that tradition while finding ways to enhance it, whether through solar assets, digital tools, or new partnerships.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_01: The story of the solar lanterns really captures it for me.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_01: For many of these groups, a lantern is the first asset they've ever collectively owned.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_01: And from that simple starting point, they're saving, building businesses, and creating real economic resilience.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's a reminder that communities don't need outside solutions imposed on them.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_01: They need resources, support, and the trust to lead their own progress.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm also excited about what's ahead the computer lab, the solar-powered broadband network, the continued collaboration with Needle Labs on digital infrastructure.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_01: These are the kinds of tools that can help scale what's already working without losing what makes it work in the first place.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_01: This wraps up episode two of our three-part series on the Solar Foundation and their partners in Tanzania.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_01: We've heard from John and Colleen about the Solar Saving Circles model, Alanagwe about the impact on the ground, and in the next episode we'll be welcoming Needle Labs to dive into more of the technology being built.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_01: Together, these conversations paint a picture of what community-driven development can look like when it's done right.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_01: So, for listeners who want to learn more about Jakumu Tanzania, support their work, or connect with the Solar Foundation, we've included all the relevant links in the show notes.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_01: A huge thank you to Al Nagwe for joining and sharing these stories with us, and to Colleen for co-hosting.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_01: And that wraps up today's episode of Crypto Ultras.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for tuning in.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_01: If you're inspired to explore more stories at the intersection of Web3 and Social Impact, be sure to visit us at CryptoUltras.com for other closed resources and more.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_01: And if you love what you heard, it would mean the world if you could rate with you and subscribe to the podcast.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_01: Your support is huge in helping us reach more listeners like you and keeping the platform going strong.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks again for joining us, and I look forward to having you back for the next episode.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_01: Until then, let's keep showing the world for the good of crypto.