Latest / Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast / BPS 301: I Wrote a Short Film Now WTF Do I Do with Clarissa Jacobson

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BPS 301: I Wrote a Short Film Now WTF Do I Do with Clarissa Jacobson · Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast

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  You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting
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  podcasts, just go to IFAH podcast network dot com. Welcome to the Bulletproof
• 0:13
  Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number three. Well one, do or do not?
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  There is no try Yoda broadcasting from a dark, windowless room in Hollywood when
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  we really should be working on that next draft. It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast,
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  showing you the craft and business of screenwriting while teaching you how to make
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  your screenplay bulletproof. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, Welcome
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  to another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast. I am your humble host Alex
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  Ferrari. Now, today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof Script Coverage. Now,
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  unlike other script coverage services, Bulletproof Script Coverage actually focuses on the kind of
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  project you are in the goals of the project you are, so we actually
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  break it down by three categories micro budget, indie film, market, and
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  studio film. There's no reason to get coverage from a reader that used to
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  reading temp bowl movies when your movie is going to be done for one hundred
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  thousand dollars. And we wanted to focus on that. At Bulletproof script Coverage,
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  our readers have worked with Marvel Studios, CIA, WME, NBC,
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  many more. So if you need your screenplay or TV script covered by professional
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  readers, head on over to cover my screenplay dot com. Now, Guys,
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  Today on the show, we have writer, director, producer, and
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  author Clarissa Jacobson, and she is the author of the amazingly titled new book
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  I made a short film, Now What the F Do I Do with it?
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  And it covers everything from what festivals to submit, to how to maximize
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  your money, secure and international presence, deal with rejection, game publicity,
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  harness, the power of social media, discusses what sales reps do, and
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  much much more. I absolutely loved the book and loved our conversation. Really,
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  she really gets into the weeds on how to maneuver in film festivals in
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  today's world. So, without any further ado, please enjoy my entertaining and
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  informational conversation with Clarissa Jacobson. I'd like to welcome to the show, Clarissa
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  Jacobson. How are you doing, Clarissa, I'm doing great. I'm really
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  happy to be on your show because it's so freaking ah. So thank you
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  so much, Thank you so much. We were talking a little bit off
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  air, and I appreciate all the kind words you said about the show and
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  that you're you know that you've been listening to it for a while, and
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  you found me through distribution where a lot of filmmakers end up finding me when
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  they start running into that wall. It's no fun and nobody knows anything about
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  and we're all terrified, right exactly. And then of course after you listen
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  to me, you're even more scared because because I tell you that, you
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  I'm like, no, you're never gonna make money here. This is how
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  they're gonna screw you there, don't sign this here, and and yogis power.
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  Even if it's scary, it's scary. I'd rather you. I'd rather
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  you be scared than lose your movie. So but I'm but I'm happy to
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  have you on the show. And yeah, you reached out to me about
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  your book that you wrote called I made a short film? Now what the
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  F Do I Do with it? A guy to film, festivals, promotions
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  and Surviving the ride. Based on the title alone, I said, well,
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  I have to have her on the show. I mean, because I
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  was like, this seems like the kind of gal that I can vibe with
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  on the show because it's it's no nonsense. Yeah, that was my working
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  title and then I just never changed it and it's super long. So now
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  I just call it my WTIF book exactly. So many, so, so
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  many filmmakers do make short films. I mean, I have a long history
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  of making short films and having some success with them early on in my career.
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  But there is so much misinformation about store films. How you what you
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  do with them? Can you monetize them? How do you run the festival
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  circuit? Is you know? Where do you go with it? All this
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  kind of stuff. So before we jump into the into the weeds, how
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  did you get started in the business. Well, I when I was a
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  little kid, I thought I wanted to be an actress. So I did
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  the whole acting thing. I went to acting school. Um, you know,
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  I went to Indiana University and majored in theater and then I went to
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  American Musical and Dramatic Academy in New York City and I did that whole thing.
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  But I was always writing and the thing about acting is you need so
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  many people to to do it, you know. So I had all this
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  pent up artistic energy all the time that I can never use because if you're
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  not in a play or you're not you just can't use it. And I
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  stumbled on it's a long story how I met my mentor, Joe Bratcher,
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  who teaches Twin Bridges writing salon. But I he offered me a class and
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  I was like, well, I'm an actress. I don't write, you
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  know, like I'm an actress. But I took like yeah, and I
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  took a few, but I was kind of getting that burned out stage where
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  I was feeling like the bitter actress, you know. But I was always
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  trying to do my own projects. And then I started screenwriting with him,
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  and I just never looked back, and I had like, you know,
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  that weird come to Jesus moment where I had to like because I always like
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  want to commit to one thing and really good at it, and I was
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  like, you know, freaked out, going, Oh my god, my
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  whole life I studied being actress. I'm leaving that behind. I'm a failure
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  at it. And my friend was like, you know, life is like
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  a tributary. You're just taking another, you know, waterway. And that
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  was like fourteen fifteen years ago, and I don't miss acting at all,
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  and I just love screenwriting so much. And then I made a short film
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  for a variety of reasons, and that's when I really realized, holy shit,
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  I'm a filmmaker. Like that's where I fit, Like I fit as
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  a filmmaker. I mean screenwriting first and foremost, but I don't want to
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  just give my screenplays over and I like to be part of the whole process.
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  I just freaking love it. So yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome,
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  and yeah it You know, a lot of times you walk into this
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  business wanted to do one thing and then you find yourself doing something else,
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  and it's I mean, I walked in wanting to be a director, and
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  that still still was my goal, but I fell in love with editing because
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  it's like, oh, I can make a living and I can learn and
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  I can make connections. I'm like, this seems like a good job.
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  And I get some carpal tunnel, I work in a new condition room.
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  I'm good. I'm good to go, and I have to be on set
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  all day as a as a PA because that stinks. Uh. You know
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  when I first started, I was like three o'clock in the morning, Call
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  what the hell is it? Oh, I'm getting seventy five dollars. Well,
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  that's fantastic. And by the way, that was seventy five dollars back
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  in nineteen ninety five. Whoa not seventy five dollars today? Seven? That
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  was some like that was some mad money back in the day. But um,
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  so I so you, So let's discuss your book. How I made
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  short films? I made I made my short film. Now what the f
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  do I do with? Um? How to you? We're going to go
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  over a bunch of stuff. But one thing is a question that we always
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  get people asking me about is branding. Because I've done I've done a decent
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  job branding my show and branding myself over the years. How do you brand
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  a short in your opinion? Um? Well, with my situation, I
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  just looked at the story and what little thing that I could pull from it
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  that would be that people could latch onto and that was my lunch. So
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  my movie's a comedy horror about lunch ladies. So first thing I did is
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  I was like, okay, where does my film take place. It takes
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  place into school. So when I made the website, I don't know where
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  I learned this. I learned somewhere along the line that you you always do
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  the same type of fonts, you do the same So I got started doing
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  like, you know, it was going to be the century school book font.
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  It was going to look like at school. It was going to have
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  the same attitude as the film. And when when I talked to other filmmakers
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  short filmakers about branding, I say, you know, don't don't like freak
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  out about it, Like you know, you don't have to be some marketing
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  genius or whatever. You have to find like that thing that you can pull
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  from it that other people will react to. So like for me, I
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  my lunchly reprehensible. They're they're like really they're they're bullied all the time,
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  so you kind of you feel for them, but they're reprehensible. So like
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  I kind of went the opposite. I branded it in a way that like
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  everything was if they got in a festival, they cheated to get in,
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  everything was. So I just found that like little niche kind of thing that
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  I could hang my hat on and then when I would do all the Instagram
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  posts, the Facebook posts, all the products I took, I find that
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  a lot of people just throw stuff together. I took like a really a
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  lot of time making sure that everything like fit together, matched with the fonts,
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  looked together, looked good, and that it was consistent across all the
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  social media and um even my blogs. Like I mean, if you wrote
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  like over two hundred blogs during the course of it, but like if you
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  look at my beginning blogs, there's there you can see how it's how it
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  grows. So like I always say, you don't need to be at one
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  hundred when you start. You just start somewhere and you and you brand it
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  in a way that also it's information that you'd want to see, Like you
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  have to like create a look for your film, whether it's comedy, horror,
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  drama or whate or ever. When you're creating content, that it's stuff
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  that you want to look at, that you would want to look at,
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  because I see a lot of times people just want to announce stuff. So
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  um, so it's basically graphic graphic design one oh one. It's basically like
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  you're thinking about everything you just said as graphic design one oh, one most
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  filmmakers don't think about because they're like, oh, I'll just throw it up
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  there. I'll just take a still and I'll grab whatever font that I find
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  in in Canava or in Photoshop and my cracked version of Photoshop that I got
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  some where. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor and now
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  back to the show on my old Mac. And but to just lap it
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  up there, and that's where I always find I think that's really separates,
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  you know, projects, is the design of the branding, how it looks
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  before anyone even sees the movie. Because most people, more people will see
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  the website, definitely more people will see the trailer and the poster. And
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  that will tell me, Like, anytime I get sent video gets a scent
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  pitches for being on the show, I'll look at the trailer, I'll look
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  at the movie poster, and the second I look at it, I'm like,
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  no, they obviously don't know what they're doing, purely on the scope
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  of the design. Because design is so powerful of a way to kind of
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  introduce you to your world. And if you haven't done a good job with
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  your poster, your website, your trailer, chances are I've never won.
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  I've never once seen an insanely well done short or insanely well done feature that
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  the poster and the trailer sucked right, And I think it's too, Like
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  you have to come from such a place of creativity, like and that you
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  have to think of the branding as just as creative as the film. And
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  you know, like I fought it. I didn't want to do it,
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  don't want to do this, don't want to do that, but you know
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  what, like I just sucked it up. You gotta just suck it up,
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  and you have to find a way to make it joyful. So what
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  I did was I found a way to make it joyful. So when I
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  would send out my postcards because it's about lunch ladies, I would wrap them
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  in butcher rap. I would send like the pins in like little wax paper
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  bags with little stickers, you know, like just what would amuse me?
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  You know, and try to make make it fun because if you're not having
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  fun and you're not being creative with it, it's not going to resonate.
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  So like come from that authenticity of like why it is fun? Like what
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  excites me about how to how to how to do it? And so that
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  was kind of like always my thing, Like if if I was creating something
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  or sending something out, what I want to receive this? And you know,
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  people would say, you know, nobody, nobody cares, They're just
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  going to rip through that paper. I'm like, yeah, but I know
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  when that the programmer opens that package, they have a little smile on their
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  face, you know, to put a smile on my face, right exactly,
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  and and sorry. So the other question is this branding. This is
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  where a lot of think a lot of filmmakers make mistakes too. Is there
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  a lot of times they'll brand their film for the mass audience, But you
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  need to understand who your audience is. Is your audience the public or is
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  it film festival programmers or is it studio exacts or is it financiers, Like
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  you've got to really understand your audience. Is at a fair statement, Yeah,
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  I think so, And I asked, you know, and I just
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  think there's like a big thing to be said for consistency and putting yourself out
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  there. I mean, I have a whole chapter on this about the fear
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  of putting yourself out there because everybody, you know, it's so much easier
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  to shout someone else's work out than your own, and you're afraid that people
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  are going to go, oh, I that person is so egotistical because all
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  they do is talk about their film. But you know what, fuck oh
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  right, Like you got to talk about what you love and if you have
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  that passion and an authenticity and you're putting it out there and spending time,
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  like it takes time to like make your product look good, like did not
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  just slap together to you know, stay up a little a little later that
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  night and like make sure you have the right stuff that you're sending out,
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  you know, like it takes time and that passion and putting it out there,
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  like people will respond to it. It's not. But that's called hustle.
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  That's called work. And yeah, a lot of filmmakers they feel that
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  that once they're done with the short, I'm good. I don't need to
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  do anything else. And that's I don't want to do the non fun stuff.
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  But that's why you gotta make it fun. That's what I did.
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  I tried, I made it. I made it. I made it as
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  fun as I could, right, and nobody thinks it's fun. They're all
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  like, oh, you have a talent for it. I'm like, you
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  know, when everybody has a talent for it if you want to do it
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  right. I personally love the branding. I love the marketing of my projects
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  and things like that because it's I just think of it as just an extension
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  of the creative process. Yeah, that's for me. That's exactly the way
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  to think of it. I Mean, you look at you look at Fincher,
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  and he's really in David Fincher, He's really involved with his marketing.
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  Stanley Kubrick was heavily involved with the marketing from the trailers to the artwork,
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  to every every aspects of the marketing process of his films because he saw it
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  as well. So this Fincher that way. And I not that I'm putting
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  myself in the sync categor right, You're absolutely right. You have to have
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  that creative Yeah, I mean that's the best thing to think about it is
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  like it's just an extension of the product, you know. And and I
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  think too, you need to know what you want to do with your short
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  like if you do, you don't just want if you just want to go
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  to film festivals and part of your ass off and you don't care where your
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  film goes, and you don't need to do all that stuff. But if
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  you have a vision that you want it to be like a proof of concept
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  or you want people notice you, then you have to find a way to
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  connect the whole thing together and make it part of this. I mean,
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  to me, it is part of the same thing. It's not as fun
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  as making the film, but right, you know, it's part of it.
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  And I think the big benefit that everyone has nowadays. And now I'm
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  going to put on my old man hat because back in the days, in
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  the nineties, it was a lot more difficult to put something together online.
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  Oh yeah, I remember. I mean yeah, when you still had to
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  dial up in like DSL okay, stopping it, actually rent the camera to
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  like do a little video. No, no, there was no video.
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  We were ten years away from YouTube. Okay, that's where we That's where
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  I was. That's how old I am. Everyone like my acting things.
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  I mean, I'm aging yourself, but like my acting things, and you
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  had to do like a thing and I had to like hire somebody to bring
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  a little camera. Yeah yeah, yeah, it goes on a little tiny
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  tape or whatever, mini DV tape and they would they have to transfer to
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  a VHS. Yeah, exactly so. But the point I'm making here is
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  that when you when you, you now have the ability to make yourself look
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  much larger and much more established than you might be. Because if you've got
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  good design and you've got a solid website and you've got a solid trailer,
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  agents, managers, financiers, uh um, festival, festival programmers, they'll
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  look at that and go, wait a minute, they must know what they're
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  doing, because that is the honestly, a good design and good branding will
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  set you apart so much bad even just doing it so so so there's different
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  levels not doing it, doing it badly, and doing it really well,
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  and even doing it bad well, at least they got a website, they
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  must have done something right. But if you do it really well, and
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  that's from my experience, I mean I was with my first short film in
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  two thousand and five. I was I got into like I think three four
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  film festivals with that. With that, it was a different time. Um,
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  it was a different it was a different world back then. But a
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  lot of times it was about the website we put together, which was a
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  flash. It was a flash website, but it was so far beyond anything
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  a short film should ever have, plus all the extra stuff I did for
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  it and everything, so it looks so much bigger. I was getting called
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  by like Oscar winning producers. They're like, what's going on here? Can
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  we can we produce your Oh that's a whole I'll write another book about that
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  whole story one day, about about what happened with the journeys I went through
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  with that project, but it was about the festival, the trailer, the
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  branding, and I didn't instinctively, I didn't know any better. I didn't
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  go like I got a graphic kind of I did it instinctively, but it
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  was a mine. Was like such a desire, like I knew exactly what
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  I wanted to do with my film, and I was like, if this
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  fails, it's going to fail because not because I didn't do everything I could
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  to make it succeed. So if it fails, then I can go,
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  Okay, Well I did everything I could right, So it was such a
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  desire to have it succeed that I just was like I had a figure.
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  I had figured out how to make a website. I figured out like I
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  didn't know how to use Twitter. I was like, pound what They're like,
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  No, it's hashtag, Like you know, I didn't have a Facebook
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  page. I was not interested in Facebook. I didn't. I was terrified
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  to, like, you know, to talk about it a little bit,
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  you know, because everything she's gonna have an ego. But the passion to
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  get it out there outweighed my fear, and then I became good game,
• 18:48
  good at it. I came better and became better and better at it,
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  you know, pion absolutely. Now, speaking of social media, do you
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  think that you need to create a specific social media present for each film or
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  do you create a brand around yourself as the filmmaker and promote all of your
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  projects through that those social channels. Well, I think you could do it
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  either way. Like I have. I'm a co creator with my partner Shane
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  Webber, and we have Rebel Minks. But I still, you know,
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  we have like everything, we have our projects all there, but I still
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  like, have a separate website for lunch ladies. We're doing a feature and
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  I have a separate, a separate thing. I mean, unless you're like
• 19:33
  Richard link Lighter, right, like everybody knows who you are. I think
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  it's I think it's harder to like drive people to it than it would be
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  just to send somebody your film and just go, hey, guess what.
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  Go to my website and they don't have, you know, lunch Ladies movie
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  dot com and they can just look at their versus going to my Rebel Minks
• 19:52
  website trying to find where it is, trying to find what it's about,
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  and you can put a lot more information. We'll be right back after a
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  word from our sponsor and now back to the show. Well yeah, so
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  like but now it's much on the websites. I agree with you on the
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  website. I'm talking about social media. So I mean like like, oh,
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  do do I have a lunch lady Twitter account which has maybe X amount
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  of people on it? Or do you go to rebel minx and have that
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  as your main one for the films, because that way you can gauge who's
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  involved in the films versus you know, I think versus just it might just
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  be you. They might be into one film and that other, so you
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  know, how many you can gauge how many people are into it. I
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  think it's easier for I don't know, like it feels like it's it feels
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  very professional to have a film website, like I don't. I mean I
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  haven't really looked at like, um, you know, the big films out
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  there, but I would bet that, like like let's say Warner Brothers puts
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  out a film, I bet all those films have their own social media.
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  It just feels more. But they also have two hundred million dollars backing.
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  But I don't cross anything to open it up Twitter count, does it comed
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  or anything to open it I work. Yeah, it's it's it's it's a
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  lot of work. Absolutely. I think it all depends to is how much
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  how long? What's the long game here? Because if it's just the one
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  movie, because it takes so long to get one movie made, let alone
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  trying to do like two or three, So focusing all your energies at the
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  beginning on individual projects it would be great. But then you could also coincide
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  that with a company site or branded site like Trauma, like Trauma, I'm
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  thinking like Trauma Films, and yeah, if you're making the same different thing,
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  because Trauma has I mean not differently good Trauma has a very specific niche
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  style, right, So if you're a faker, maybe who just does so
• 21:37
  like I have a comedy horror, I have a historical horror, I have
• 21:41
  feel good drama. I have there's my films are very different, so it'd
• 21:45
  be hard somebody who likes I mean, you know, they might people I
• 21:49
  think would like that like my stuff, like my voice, but they might
• 21:52
  not necessarily like my drama. They might only like my comedy horror. So
• 21:56
  then I'm you know, I just feel like I can groom people so much
• 22:00
  more just having you know, but like like a trauma, you're expecting a
• 22:03
  certain all those films are kind of have the same vibe, you know.
• 22:10
  I agree. So if you are a filmmaker, who's gonna be like I'm
• 22:11
  going to be a horror filmmaker and that's all I'm gonna do, that might
• 22:15
  be something that might be a yeah, I can see been doing that one.
• 22:18
  Yeah. Or if you're a comedy and all you do is comedy,
• 22:19
  there might be something. But if you want to, you know, move
• 22:22
  across. I got you, I got you now. Um. The big
• 22:26
  thing with film with short films is film festivals, Like, how do I
• 22:30
  get into film festivals? How do I submit to film festivals? What's the
• 22:33
  what's the it's a land it's a landmine landfield or LaSIE landfield, minefield,
• 22:41
  a minefield of all sorts of dues, and do not in secret, like
• 22:45
  you shouldn't do that, but no one's ever told me that before and all
• 22:48
  this kind of stuff. So what advice do you have for for filmmakers submitting
• 22:52
  to film festivals today? Um? Well, first of all, and I
• 22:57
  think I read this in a book a while back and that, but I
• 23:00
  kind of perfected my way of doing it is to have to have a list.
• 23:06
  Um, but you you can. You you have an Excel spreadsheet where
• 23:11
  it tells what the early bird is, the myth, you know, the
• 23:15
  so that so that way you can track. You can look at that spreadsheet
• 23:17
  every day and track to get your films, to get your film in the
• 23:22
  early birds. You can save money that way, and you can kind of
• 23:25
  organize it by, you know, by what you want from your film.
• 23:26
  So like, are you a person who wants to have maybe be nominated for
• 23:30
  Oscars? So like, for example, I was like, yeah, yeah,
• 23:33
  I want to be nominated for Oscar. I'm gonna go. I'm gonna
• 23:36
  go for all the Oscar films for shut right, So I'll put those all
• 23:37
  on my list, and then I'm gonna go for you know I'm gonna do.
• 23:41
  I did a little research about you know, you like great horror festivals,
• 23:45
  and so I knew I want to be a bunch of horrors. So
• 23:48
  I put those on my list, and then I started really getting into the
• 23:52
  idea pretty early on that I was going to get subtitles for everything, because
• 23:57
  even though that's a little bit um up front, you put like one hundred
• 24:00
  bucks or whatever down for your two hundred bucks for your subtitles, in the
• 24:04
  end it saves you so much money because so many festivals across the world are
• 24:08
  free to enter. And so once I got on the bandwagon of getting first
• 24:11
  of all, just getting your English subtitles is amazing because once you get your
• 24:15
  English subtitles, a lot of film festivals will just take your film. Foreign
• 24:19
  festivals will take your film, your film with English subtitles and make subtitles for
• 24:23
  you. So I think that the first festival I got, and that was
• 24:29
  I submitted it with English subtitles, was too more beat and then they wanted
• 24:33
  Spanish subtitles. But then all the festivals after that that I entered, they
• 24:37
  all made they all made the subtitles for me and then opened up this incredible
• 24:41
  world in Europe where all the festivals. First of all, like I went
• 24:44
  on other other sites because people want to always want to just go on film
• 24:47
  freeway. Well there's a fest home, there's short film depot, and you
• 24:51
  can find like the most amazing freaking festivals on there. But your film has
• 24:56
  got to have some subtitles. But by the time you're done, you you
• 25:00
  know, So I would what I would do is I go on those those
• 25:02
  sites and I'd look every week and see what the what one's coming up were,
• 25:07
  you know, and then I'd see is that right for me? And
• 25:08
  if it's free to enter a couple bucks, what do you have to lose?
• 25:11
  Nothing if you got your subtitles. And then you're also having a long
• 25:15
  game if you have your sub deitals, because then if you get pricked up
• 25:18
  picked up by a sales rep or you do it yourself, then you can
• 25:21
  which is harder to do it yourself, to get your film distributed in Europe.
• 25:23
  But if you have a sales rep, then they can go and sell
• 25:26
  your film in France and Germany because you already have the subtitles. So I,
• 25:30
  you know, so like. And the other thing is there's a lot
• 25:33
  of people would say to me, um, can I have your list,
• 25:37
  you know, because I want to know, I want to know which ones
• 25:38
  to enter. And I would say, well, first of all, every
• 25:42
  films different. So my film was an eighteen minute film, so I didn't
• 25:45
  There was festivals I couldn't enter because it was too long, too long.
• 25:49
  My films comedy, horror and I and And the thing about doing your own
• 25:55
  list and going out there and researching and like looking at these festivals and see
• 26:00
  and looking at their websites is pretty soon you start to get a real feel
• 26:03
  of what's out there, what your film might be right for now you're always
• 26:07
  surprised by what your film gets in. Like sometimes you think, oh,
• 26:10
  for sure, that's a shoe one and other times you don't, you know,
• 26:11
  but you do get a feel. You do get a feel. And
• 26:15
  I can't say enough, even though it's a lot of work to create a
• 26:18
  list, Um you know about what first of all the film, the festivals
• 26:22
  that you think will fit your film, the festivals that are free, the
• 26:27
  festivals that maybe are oscar and you and you make that list, and you
• 26:30
  also put the early bird down so you know that you know how much money
• 26:33
  you're spending or you know how to weigh it. Once you've made that list,
• 26:37
  it's like you kind of feel I mean, I like I really got
• 26:42
  like a real feel of what's out there and what and what to submit to
• 26:47
  and how and how to do it and how to get stuff going. So
• 26:49
  I GE's really important. Like I get filmmakers all the time. I'm like,
• 26:53
  hey, you know, like I'll see their phone and be like,
• 26:56
  I bet this film would be great for this or this or this, Like
• 26:57
  I will give I'm to tell people that. But I but I don't like
• 27:03
  when people say, can I have your list, because I'm like, how
• 27:07
  is my list that's specific for my film going to help your film? Right?
• 27:11
  So you have to take that time. You have to take that time
• 27:12
  to create that list. And I was coming from ground zero two, like
• 27:17
  I had never been on the festival route. I didn't know. I mean,
• 27:19
  you know, I knew, I knew Sun Dance, you know,
• 27:23
  yeah, five the top five Toronto. Yeah, and just got to get
• 27:29
  out there and just kind of like and then another way that I did it
• 27:32
  too, is I decided that I wanted my lunch ladies to go all over
• 27:34
  the world, so I'd be like, oh god, I got to get
• 27:38
  in a festival in Venezuela. I haven't been an investil woman and which lunch
• 27:41
  lease have not been in Venezuela yet, which still trying. But they they
• 27:45
  didn't pay your way though, right you? But you paid your own way?
• 27:47
  No, no, I didn't. I mean I mean, like my
• 27:48
  my film, like I had this feel like I would create I created a
• 27:52
  map of where they had been because I loved the idea of them going to
• 27:56
  these out you know places like in December, it's going to be in Bally.
• 28:02
  I mean it's so you know, so like there's something so amazing about
• 28:04
  having your film be seen all over the world. So that's another way to
• 28:07
  do it, like has your film been seen in Spain? And to not
• 28:10
  get to not give up because they can take a while to break into a
• 28:14
  country, and then once you break in, it's like the programmers all talk
• 28:17
  to each other and they get to and they hear about you, and the
• 28:19
  Europeans especially, like I feel like the programmers they're really talk to each other
• 28:25
  and really share films and really they'll play your film more than once, so
• 28:30
  you know, that's another way to do it too, is like geographically or
• 28:33
  like which states by nothing into if you can't decide which ones to enter,
• 28:37
  you know. So the thing I think one of the big problems that filmmakers
• 28:41
  have as well is they always focus on the top five or ten, the
• 28:45
  sun Dances and the Slam Dances and these and these kind of festivals. And
• 28:48
  I always tell them, like, the chances of you getting your film in
• 28:52
  are so astronomical. It was like thirty thousand submissions to Sundance last day,
• 28:57
  and you know, one hundred and ten including shorts, get in. So
• 29:02
  it's so astronomical to get into those kind of things. And they feel like
• 29:06
  their failures when they don't get into the big the big ten, or the
• 29:08
  big twenty even right, And I always tell them, it's not about you.
• 29:15
  It's not personal, it's not about your film. You're not hitting what
• 29:18
  they are looking for that year. That year they really might be into this
• 29:25
  kind of film with this kind of filmmaker attached to it. It's political.
• 29:30
  It has a little to do with the quality of your film, to be
• 29:33
  honest with you, because I've seen a lot of good projects that don't get
• 29:36
  in and then I see projects sometimes they're like, I never forgot this,
• 29:40
  and forgive me if there's a filmmaker who did this, but I couldn't.
• 29:42
  I was so angry. I wasn't. Sundance was set Sundance and I went,
• 29:48
  I went to the shorts of a shorts block and I see it was
• 29:52
  called Batman Goes on a Date or Robin goes on a Date. Okay,
• 29:56
  and it's justin long as Rob We'll be right back after a word from our
• 30:03
  sponsor, and now back to the show. And Sam rockwell as Batman and
• 30:14
  Robin and Justin is like, you know, trying to go on a date,
• 30:17
  and then Batman's trying to basically move in on Robin's date. And that's
• 30:19
  a short film. And I'm sitting there going, if that was done with
• 30:23
  anybody other than Justin and Sam Rock, it would have never made the sun
• 30:27
  Dance Block. And I go, that's just that just upset me because I
• 30:33
  was like, I don't have access to Sam and Justin, especially in two
• 30:37
  thousand and five, so that it just was like, but that's the way
• 30:41
  the game is played. It's unfortunate. It's unfortunate, and sometimes you'll get
• 30:45
  you know, and then sometimes you'll get the Cinderella stories and sometimes you'll get
• 30:49
  people who don't have names get into those festivals. Of course based on there's
• 30:52
  quality and things like that. But that was just one example. It's like,
• 30:56
  oh, it's not really about I. I find that, like you
• 31:03
  have to go for the big ones, sure, because it's fun, but
• 31:07
  also sometimes like there's ones that are like just so that open up so many
• 31:11
  freaking doors. I've had festivals that have opened up so many doors. You
• 31:17
  know that that maybe if that you know, because I've seen I mean,
• 31:25
  I talk about this so like you know, I didn't my film did not
• 31:27
  get a Sundance, Okay, but and mine either, by the way,
• 31:33
  so you're a good company, you know. But then my film got in
• 31:37
  um Claremont Front and that was the festival that I needed to get it going.
• 31:41
  Sure, but but but you know there's plenty people, I mean,
• 31:47
  Clme up Front is the most amazing festival in world. There's plenty people don't
• 31:48
  know who Claremont Front is, right, So you know I got you know,
• 31:55
  i'd get in that one, or I'd get in some small I enter
• 31:57
  some small festival that I didn't get in, or i'd enter another festival that
• 32:02
  nobody had heard of, but that festival would open another door for something else.
• 32:07
  So like the idea is like to check out the festivals and make sure
• 32:09
  they have a real thing going, you know, to know that they're legit,
• 32:13
  they're not a feel good faker, and to really just be thankful when
• 32:17
  you get in them and not, you know, like it was. It
• 32:21
  was a total crazy thing when it got in that one and I wasn't even
• 32:24
  in the competitive section and it still was like the most amazing thing in the
• 32:29
  world. But like I didn't get in south By Southwest, I didn't get
• 32:34
  in you know, a ton of it. But there's always a festival that's
• 32:37
  that it's for your film, and you just got to get out there and
• 32:40
  just submit, submit, submit, and realize, you know, like when
• 32:45
  I actually did whole a whole chapter about that about why your film doesn't get
• 32:49
  in festivals, because it's a mind fuck if you if you go down that
• 32:53
  path to start believing that your film is bad, you'll drop out. And
• 32:55
  I talk to people that'll be like, oh, I've entered ten festivals and
• 33:00
  only gotten one, so I'm dropping out, And I'm like, you know,
• 33:01
  the averages ten percent of the festivals that you get in, So that
• 33:05
  means you're gonna the average film gets an only ten percent of the festivals.
• 33:08
  Oh yeah, just get out there and keep and you can't have a you
• 33:13
  know, like there's people that I know that's a small festival. You know,
• 33:15
  some of the smallest festivals have been the most amazing. They're the best,
• 33:19
  They're the best. Ever went. I went to um Well with my
• 33:24
  first film. I got into so many festivals, but I got into my
• 33:30
  first thirty five festivals, turned down from all the major festivals because I had
• 33:32
  a twenty minute right you know, action thriller. Uh not the film festival
• 33:38
  righting, you know, So you know, I got into a lot of
• 33:42
  genre and all that stuff. But after thirty five episode thirty five festivals,
• 33:45
  I had spent about one thousand dollars in submission fees. So I was just
• 33:50
  like, I didn't know anything about anything. I was just trying to do.
• 33:52
  You think about the free festivals in Europe. There was no free festivals
• 33:55
  in Europe. I didn't know about any of that stuff. And subtitling cost
• 34:00
  ten dollars a minute. So back then, so there was a whole other
• 34:04
  world but then after a while, I said, well, I got into
• 34:07
  thirty five festivals. No festival that I'm going to get into from this point
• 34:12
  on is going to explode my career. It's the way I thought about it.
• 34:17
  So I'm like, I just boycotted paying for festivals anymore. So this
• 34:22
  is I just said I'm not gonna pay for any more festivals. Now.
• 34:25
  What I did at that point is I didn't stop submitting. I submitted to
• 34:29
  everybody. And because my branding and my marketing was so on point with the
• 34:32
  trailer. Trailer was watched twenty thousand times back in two thousand and five,
• 34:37
  so it was a whole like, you know, it's I think it's one
• 34:39
  of the first trailers ever on YouTube. I'm so old it was. I
• 34:45
  looked it up. I looked it up the other day. I looked it
• 34:50
  up the other day and I was like, oh my god, am I
• 34:51
  the first movie trailer ever on YouTube? And I found I think Sony Classics
• 34:54
  I'd put one up on so and it's still up there, and it kind
• 34:59
  of twenty thirty views back then. I've seen it. It's a great trailer.
• 35:02
  Yeah, so it so because of that, I was very confident.
• 35:07
  I was like, hey, look I already got into these other festivals.
• 35:09
  So what I would do is I would submit to everybody. I mean,
• 35:13
  I did not discriminate. I submitted to everybody that could be submitted to,
• 35:17
  and then they would go back, I'm like, oh, we like your
• 35:19
  film. I'm like, great, uh if you if I'm accepted, I'll
• 35:22
  be moren't happy to pay your submission fee. But I'm not going to pay
• 35:24
  a submission fee if for the mere chance of getting in, because at this
• 35:29
  point in the game, I'm not going to throw another three or four thousand,
• 35:31
  right, And uh, it worked enough that I got into another couple
• 35:36
  and it does get Yeah. I mean the truth is is like you know,
• 35:38
  if you if you get that role going, then people start to come
• 35:43
  to you, right, and it takes a little bit, you know,
• 35:45
  like it's building. You know, Jerome Kershone calls it a pedigree. It's
• 35:47
  building that pedigree. I didn't realize if that's what I was doing when I
• 35:51
  was like, you know, emailing every single day, you know, someone
• 35:54
  to write about my film, no matter how small. It was like every
• 35:58
  single day, like just just building the reviews, building these reviews, just
• 36:01
  creating this buzz for my film, so that after about I would say it
• 36:07
  took it took a while, but about six or seven months then I started
• 36:10
  having people come to me saying, can I see the film? You don't
• 36:14
  have to pay the you don't pay the submission fee. Can I see the
• 36:15
  film? You know, yeah, it takes a minute. It takes a
• 36:19
  minute. But once you were able to build up that momentum at a certain
• 36:22
  point. And don't get me wrong, I got a lot of film festivals
• 36:24
  as was like, yeah, no, we need you to yeah, to
• 36:27
  pay the submission. I'm like, that's fine, I'm not going to.
• 36:30
  Yeah, you hustle it in the beginning, and you got always got a
• 36:32
  hustle through the whole thing. But it does. But when it starts snowballing
• 36:36
  and you start getting like people excited and hearing about it and stuff like that,
• 36:39
  then then it becomes even becomes even more worth it, you know,
• 36:43
  because getting some positive reinforcement and some of the best experiences I've ever had a
• 36:46
  festivals are always been the small ones because it's it's a it's a kind of
• 36:50
  a mom and pop like you know, everybody, everybody knows you. They
• 36:53
  treat you like family, whereas in some larger festivals, UM who shall remain
• 37:00
  name was Yeah, I think I can go over that with you after Yeah,
• 37:05
  I mean there's uh, there's one specifically in LA I think I am
• 37:09
  bored with that same one. Yeah, and um, that specific one in
• 37:15
  two thousand and five. Um, it's not Holly Shorts, by the way,
• 37:17
  I love Holly Shorts. Um, but I in two thousand and five,
• 37:22
  I submitted and got accepted, and it was a very big one.
• 37:25
  It was an Oscar whatever qualifier and all this kind of stuff. I flew
• 37:31
  my ass across the country, put myself up in Hollywood. Can you imagine
• 37:38
  I was in a hotel in Hollywood. Oh, it is me and my
• 37:44
  friend. I never forgot it. Me and my producing partner. We got
• 37:46
  into this hotel room and the beds like shut the window. No, the
• 37:53
  beds were they were so they were so close to each other. It almost
• 37:58
  seemed me like you walk automobiles. I'm like, is this is this a
• 38:04
  cleaning closet? And then like out front when I walk into like you know,
• 38:07
  Marilyn Monroe state here once, I'm like, I'm sure she did.
• 38:09
  But Jesus guys. Um so it caught. It cost us a couple you
• 38:15
  know, probably a thousand bucks fifteen hundred bucks if not more back to go
• 38:19
  over there. So we get to our screening. We're wearing a block with
• 38:22
  everybody else and then at the end, no Q and A no Q and
• 38:27
  the only thing I wanted it was a Q and A and I talked to
• 38:30
  the programmers there and then everyone's like, sorry, you can't do it,
• 38:34
  we're running late. I'm like, dude, And oh, by the way,
• 38:37
  I wasn't even the worst. Another another poor filmmaker in that block,
• 38:39
  flew from Spain and he didn't get his his and he only had the one
• 38:45
  screening. There's nothing so and that off air. I'll tell you some other
• 38:51
  stories. But uh, but but but but but some of these smaller festivals,
• 38:57
  like there's a wonderful festival down to Florida called the Melbourne Independent Film Festival.
• 39:00
  I know those guys really well, they love filmmakers. They treated me
• 39:05
  like like gold down there, and they're wonderful. There's so many great film
• 39:10
  festivals out there that will treat filmmakers well. Um, so, don't always
• 39:15
  look at the big boys. The big boys. Oh you do you do
• 39:17
  a nice little mix and then yeah, and now that they have you know,
• 39:22
  fest Home and Short Film Depot, you can enter the foreign festivals for
• 39:24
  like next to nothing. And and I've had just met so many amazing people.
• 39:32
  Yeah, so let let's talk many amazing people in the foreign festivals.
• 39:36
  So let's talk. Let's talk a little bit about the experience of working a
• 39:38
  festival, because a lot of filmmakers just go there with their eyes full of
• 39:43
  shiny golden lights and they're like, oh, look the red expectations like I
• 39:47
  had one exactly, You're like, oh my god, this is gonna be
• 39:52
  amaze. It's gonna be like because all you think about a sun dance,
• 39:53
  so you think everything's gonna be like, I'm wanna walk the red carpet.
• 39:59
  We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to
• 40:06
  the show. There's gonna be people taking pictures of me. Everyone's gonna want
• 40:09
  to talk to me about my genius and about my my my artistic expression,
• 40:15
  anything I am, how amazing I am. And then eventually, obviously Steven
• 40:22
  Spielberg or somebody is going to watch for sure, obviously from going to that
• 40:27
  first festival, so when you get there. So can we talk a little
• 40:30
  bit about how to actually work a festival, how to take advantage of what
• 40:35
  they have to offer and things like that, because a lot of filmmakers just
• 40:37
  go there completely clueless about what this is and what the true opportunities are and
• 40:44
  what the true complete delusions. Yes, absolutely so. One thing is that
• 40:51
  you can do is you can always work a festival even if you're not there.
• 40:53
  Oh so that means when you talk to the programmers so they know who
• 40:58
  you are, Like, don't be a pain in the ass, but you
• 41:00
  know, talk to them and say, you know, can I send postcards?
• 41:04
  Can I Can I send a poster? And I mean I've sent them
• 41:07
  to Europe as many times as I could, because because if you're not going
• 41:09
  to be there, at least your postcards will be there. And I will
• 41:12
  tell you, like, even if you're not there the first part of the
• 41:15
  week and you hear it coming the second part of the week, you want
• 41:16
  your postcards there on the table. I've had distributors that have gone to see
• 41:20
  the film because there was a postcard on the freaking table even though I wasn't
• 41:22
  there. So that's the first way to work your festival is to make sure
• 41:27
  you know and you got it. You have to ask because sometimes if festivals
• 41:30
  don't want your swag and they don't want all that, but like you know,
• 41:32
  you got it, try to have a presence. Then you know.
• 41:36
  I earned learned early on, don't have expectations about how you think it's going
• 41:39
  to go. So I have a funny story about more beutlefests, which I
• 41:45
  just I love it so much. But when I went there, I missed
• 41:47
  my film both times. The first time I got in an uber axe.
• 41:52
  For the first I was in such a bad it was like, you know
• 41:54
  that James Bond movie. I got stuck in a Day of the Dead parade
• 41:58
  and I was running and I was sobbing, and I was like me put
• 42:00
  ida, which was the only Spanish words I knew, and I was running
• 42:05
  and I was like, I couldn't. The taxicab driver dropped me off on
• 42:07
  the side of the freeway. I ran up. I ran into this huge
• 42:09
  parade. I got to my film right when it was over and got to
• 42:14
  do the Q and A with masscara running down my face. So in the
• 42:17
  second time, I mean it was a horror comedy. So that makes sense,
• 42:21
  yes, freaking what is it? Two two thousand miles to right?
• 42:28
  And then the second time at the film play twice, I was like,
• 42:31
  I'm gonna get there really early. So I got there really early, you
• 42:35
  know, like hat a gent tonic like talk to people. And then I
• 42:37
  found out two minutes before that it was canceled. Yeah, and then I
• 42:44
  got in a second ubract then on the way home. So like you'd think
• 42:47
  this would be like the worst situation, right, Well it wasn't. Because
• 42:51
  first of all, I, like I said I I was telling you earlier,
• 42:54
  I had stood in line for the opening night and I met my director
• 42:59
  there that of my current film, So if I hadn't gone to Morbido Fest,
• 43:01
  I never would have met him. And that the grammar was just so
• 43:05
  wonderful, Like I talked to him so many times. They've been so supportive.
• 43:07
  I wrote about them in my book. So you could look at that
• 43:10
  experience is like, oh my god, that was the worst experience in a
• 43:14
  world. Because you have this expectation that you're gonna go to the more Beato
• 43:15
  Fest, which is this amazing festival in Mexico City. You're gonna be like
• 43:19
  cob nabbing it, you're gonna be oh. And also I went to a
• 43:22
  there were supposed to be a party, and I went to I was there
• 43:23
  by myself and I spik Spanish, but there were supposed to be a party.
• 43:25
  I go to the party and the guy goes, no party here,
• 43:29
  no party here. So I went to a bar by myself, drinking,
• 43:31
  you know, margharita. And the next morning I saw on Instagram that they
• 43:34
  were all partying at the place where they told me there was no party.
• 43:37
  So they're kind of like a week but like but at the same time,
• 43:39
  like that's when I was like, I'd already kind of gotten. I'd gone
• 43:43
  to a few festivals where it was like your expectation of what you have no
• 43:46
  freaking idea what it's going to be, but like if you can just open
• 43:50
  it, open yourself up to it, something always, something amazing always comes
• 43:54
  out of even the worst festivals. I've been horrible festivals where I meet just
• 43:59
  one person that's so freaking amazing and they become like my best buddy and they
• 44:02
  help me so much. So the first thing is that they're trying not to
• 44:06
  have expectations to know that something positive will always come out of it, and
• 44:09
  then you want to be as prepared as possible with all your stuff. So
• 44:13
  like there was many times when I was the only one there with a poster
• 44:15
  and oh my god, a poster in an Easil postcards all that. I
• 44:20
  mean, I know that sounds simple. It's a pain in the ask to
• 44:22
  bring it. But yeah, if you have a poster in Easel, people
• 44:24
  we'll see, we'll tend to go to see your film over other people's films,
• 44:29
  right exactly. And it's it's it's just just an interesting the whole thing.
• 44:32
  I remember when I first my first I never forgot my first film festival.
• 44:37
  I ever got into um because I didn't know anything about premieres or if
• 44:40
  there was premieres or anything like that. So I submitted and got into the
• 44:45
  Ocean City Film Festival in New Jersey. It's amazing. Way to make it
• 44:52
  better, i won Best Director right like, right first first festival, I'm
• 44:58
  like a set. I'm like, this is gonna be easy. Like obviously
• 45:02
  everyone's seeing my genius situation, Like everyone's seeing my genius right away, this
• 45:08
  is all I should be directing a studio movie within a year. Yeah,
• 45:15
  And then I didn't get another award for like a year. Yeah, that's
• 45:19
  part too, Like when you get in the you don't get you can rejected
• 45:22
  about it, then you get, then you then you don't you know,
• 45:23
  because it comes in waves. I mean I feel like it kinds of waves.
• 45:27
  You'll get accepted to a bunch and then it'll be like eight or nine
• 45:30
  rejections. Oh yeah, it's it's films never going to get in another festival.
• 45:35
  No, no, it's crazy but so but the best part was when
• 45:37
  I looked them up and again, guys, this was two thousand and five.
• 45:40
  When I looked it up on their website, which if you could imagine
• 45:44
  what a two thousand and five website done by someone who doesn't know what a
• 45:45
  website is, it's absolutely brilliant. It was my film was being played at
• 45:52
  like Billy Bob's Crabshack, and that was where they were holding the festival.
• 45:57
  They were like basically just projecting it in the back of the bar and this
• 46:00
  guy and I think that went on for like two or three Um, I
• 46:05
  think it went on for two three years and then it closed. Would a
• 46:07
  great story, but one and I wish I would have gone. I wish
• 46:09
  I would have gone I would have been amazing, but but you just never
• 46:13
  you never know who you're going to meet. My best, my best story
• 46:16
  of working a festival is working Sundance because I didn't get into Sundance, but
• 46:21
  I work did so in two thousand. In two thousand and five, when
• 46:24
  my first film came out, my first short, Broken came out, I
• 46:28
  flew two Sundance even though we got rejected, and we were just gonna like
• 46:34
  make sure everybody at Sundance knew about our film. And we literally walked main
• 46:37
  Street on Park in Park City with a DVD portable DVD player, Oh my
• 46:43
  gosh, showing people, showing people the trailer, and we had postcards all
• 46:47
  over the place and people are like, can you where can I see this?
• 46:50
  And I would just send everybody to our website and I got so much
• 46:52
  attention. We actually got more attention than most of the film film. Yeah,
• 46:57
  you have to put yourself out there. That's thing, you know,
• 47:00
  like even if you're afraid and believe me, I'm I. I mean I
• 47:04
  was so happy to be like out there doing it so like sure, you
• 47:07
  know, but but but there is fear like that, you know, how
• 47:09
  am I going to talk to people you know, and it's like you just
• 47:13
  got to talk to people. You don't just pitch pitch people. You get
• 47:15
  to know people and you like and sometimes it's even better if you don't have
• 47:20
  your sometimes it's even better. It's fun, or if you have your team
• 47:22
  with you, but sometimes it's better even if you're by yourself because you need
• 47:27
  more people that way. Yeah, absolutely, And I think that was it
• 47:30
  that year that we did it. I think one year we actually wrote we
• 47:34
  created our own passes so well the parties, so we actually created a like
• 47:39
  this ridiculous pass that would not fool anybody. But again this is two thousand
• 47:45
  and five, Soars Sundance was a little bit different, and it just said
• 47:46
  all access. That's all I said. It was just at all access,
• 47:51
  you have no idea. But that takes so much HOOTSPA Like. I love
• 47:54
  that. They're probably like knew, knew it was bullshit, but they were
• 47:59
  like, oh man, yeah, let these guys in because no idea.
• 48:02
  How many places we got it because we acted like we were in the festival
• 48:08
  and we're like oh yeah, yeah, yeah and this, and we would
• 48:10
  leave our postcards it like sun Dances like Headquarters and then like go back and
• 48:15
  then they're like, who's this guy? And you see it all in the
• 48:16
  garbage cans. We picked them out of the garbage can. We put them
• 48:19
  like. It was just straight up. It was just straight up hustling,
• 48:22
  like hard, hard, course up. But we met hustling, but we
• 48:25
  met producers distributors that way. We had um. It led to me flying
• 48:30
  up to They flew me up to Toronto too, when we were going to
• 48:34
  try to make the feature and all this kind of craziness all because we went
• 48:38
  to a festival that we weren't accepted in. Yeah, and they work it.
• 48:43
  You talk to people you like, gotta really I mean parties, parties.
• 48:45
  We were we were parties. Like when I was at Monster Ploosa,
• 48:49
  I just walked up and down the line because I knew that people were there
• 48:52
  not to see films, and I just was like, here, here's a
• 48:55
  lunch, ladies here not we pleased show up at my show? All right?
• 48:59
  So so this is so this I'm gonna tell this story. I don't
• 49:01
  know if I should tell this story, but I think yes, please do.
• 49:04
  If it's embarrassing, tell it. It's not embarrassing. It's actually it's
• 49:07
  a hack. It's one of the many hacks to be discovered at okay,
• 49:13
  all right, but it does affect somebody else, so we knew so.
• 49:16
  So because we were hustling so much. There was this one agent at CIA
• 49:22
  that we met there at some parties and he was a he was a prick
• 49:25
  um and he wasn't very nice, but we knew his name. So what
• 49:30
  we would do is we would go to a party up in the hills at
• 49:34
  one of these giant houses and they're like, where's the list, and like,
• 49:37
  hi, John John Smith from CIA, and they're like, go right
• 49:42
  on, name mister Smith. And we would get there early before John would
• 49:45
  get there. That would because because he treated us badly. So and what
• 49:52
  we would do is so I would get in and then I would walk in
• 49:55
  and I find an exit or somewhere and I would let my and I let
• 50:00
  my buddy in on the side. We'll be right back after a word from
• 50:05
  our sponsor and now back to the show. So we're there, like I
• 50:14
  never forgot it. We were at this giant house, uh, in the
• 50:16
  middle of you know, up in the hills in Park City, and we're
• 50:20
  like partying next to like Paul Walker, Elijah Wood, Paris Hilton was there
• 50:25
  at the time. I mean we were just like this, it's awesome,
• 50:31
  Oh my god, heavily we're here. But that's but you know, that
• 50:36
  was I was younger, I was more foolish and things. Times were different,
• 50:40
  guys, Times were different. But um, don't do that to any
• 50:45
  ages that are cool guys, please, But but it was a way it
• 50:49
  was and we and one other trick that we did is we got to Sundance
• 50:52
  probably a day too early while they were setting up, and we became and
• 50:58
  we became friends with the door guys. That's smart too, So we walked
• 51:01
  in, we became friends, We befriended them, we bought them a couple
• 51:05
  of drinks here and there. So when the parties were happening on main Street,
• 51:09
  we just walk up and like Bubba and Bubba would let us write in.
• 51:14
  And that was and that and we were able to get into parties that
• 51:16
  we had no business being in. Whatsoever, none, none, whats like?
• 51:21
  People are like, is that? Why who are these people? What
• 51:24
  the hell? How did these idiots? What's all access? What is that
• 51:28
  about? So? Um, oh no, I should write a book just
• 51:31
  on my Sundance adventures. That's why I made my movie Ego and Desire,
• 51:34
  because I'd love I just love mine. Yeah, I just started watching it.
• 51:37
  I thought so funny the beginning the girls help pissed off like she was
• 51:40
  thinking all the credits because that never happens, Never happens in filmmaking. Ever,
• 51:46
  never egos egos in filmmaking. Never in a million years would that happened.
• 51:52
  Um so, um so let me get oh and show up. The
• 51:57
  other thing, too, is to show up, like if you know it's
• 52:00
  cost a thousand dollars, go to the festivals, Like I mean, I
• 52:04
  saved a little nesting and I found out, you know, using Scot's Flights,
• 52:07
  which is amazing, that you could go to Europe for pretty much the
• 52:09
  same price as you can go to New York City to see a festival,
• 52:13
  because a lot of the foreign festivals will pay for your hotels or they'll put
• 52:15
  for for you know, food or whatever you know. And I just can't
• 52:21
  tell you, like how valuable it was just meeting just going and meeting people,
• 52:25
  and especially if you're if you're not in LA or New York or Austin
• 52:30
  or or a hub where there's a lot of filmmakers or Atlanta Um. You
• 52:36
  you get to interact with your kind, your your people. You meet other
• 52:42
  filmmakers, you meet other producers, you meet other writers, and the and
• 52:45
  the networking that you do at these festivals, even if it's a little hole
• 52:49
  in the wall, festival's important. There's somebody there that you can meet.
• 52:52
  You have no idea who you can meet there. And sometimes there's a panelist
• 52:57
  who's on a panel somewhere and you walk up after words and you and you
• 53:00
  introduce yourself. And it's a weird thing at a festival, Like you couldn't
• 53:06
  do that on the streets of la but at a festival. But at a
• 53:08
  festival it's it's acceptable to a certain extent. Like if they're at the bar,
• 53:13
  you can walk up to them and oh, totally befriend the What do
• 53:16
  you do? Yeah? Do you have any advice? All this stuff?
• 53:20
  By the way, if you do meet somebody at a festival that's like,
• 53:23
  you know, big writer or a big director, big producer, don't just
• 53:27
  start asking them for things. Please? Can I buy you a drink?
• 53:31
  Uh? You know what advice? Do you know? What advice do you
• 53:35
  have? In But don't go hey, can you see my movie. Hey
• 53:37
  can you Hey, hey, I got this script. Don't don't don't do
• 53:39
  that, don't you. You know. The other good way too is I
• 53:43
  know this goes without saying, but this happened. I mean this happened,
• 53:45
  and I talked about this book too. Um. Another way to make sure
• 53:51
  that you work at festival is freaking support the other filmmakers, see their films,
• 53:54
  and when you go to a block and your film is played, don't
• 53:57
  get up after years is done. Watch the films, right, because they'll
• 54:01
  see you do that and not like really nothing is like worst will than going
• 54:08
  to a block and somebody gets up in the middle after their film is done
• 54:12
  and doesn't watch the rest of the filmmakers to support them. Yeah, there's
• 54:15
  there's that. Yeah, yeah, I've I've been in those. I've been
• 54:20
  in those as well, and I've been filmmakers are your like best. The
• 54:23
  worst is when you get to a film, when you're at a film festival
• 54:27
  and like the only people in the audience are you and the crew. Yeah
• 54:30
  that's and there's like, okay, we bought the ten tickets, Okay,
• 54:35
  I see there's some sort of pretty Once in a while, there's a small
• 54:37
  audience and yeah, which is great, Which is great, and you're like,
• 54:40
  oh bummer, it's a small audience. But I've learned to love small
• 54:43
  audiences too, because sometimes you could have a huge audience and not a single
• 54:46
  person who could do anything for you. You could have a small audience and
• 54:49
  there's somebody there that can help you in some way or wants to help you.
• 54:52
  Right, Never look down on it. Even a small audience. You
• 54:55
  just don't know who's in that audience. I'm gonna I wanna tell one more
• 55:00
  story. When I was at the Toronto Film Festival in two thousand and five
• 55:04
  or six, somebody, one of the producers who I was working with at
• 55:08
  the time, They're like, hey, we're distributing this film. Here's a
• 55:12
  ticket to go see this film. And it was like a like an independent
• 55:15
  film. I'm like cool. So I went and we sat there and I
• 55:20
  was with my partner, my producing partner, and we look in the back
• 55:23
  and they're like, is that Roger Ebert sitting shut in the corner of the
• 55:31
  theater And he goes I think it is. I'm like, let's go up
• 55:36
  and talk to him. This is before the movie starts. I'm like let's
• 55:37
  let's go up and talk to Roger Ebert. So we walk up over to
• 55:40
  Roger Ebert, and Roger, you know, we're like, oh my god,
• 55:45
  Roger, you're like the best, Like, you know, we're such
• 55:46
  a big fans of yours all this stuff. So we're talking to Roger Ebert,
• 55:50
  and all of a sudden and then we start like we start yapping about
• 55:53
  our film, like, oh, we got this, We've got our movie,
• 55:57
  and we did it for like eight thousand dollars, and it's got like
• 55:59
  one hundred visual efect shots in it, and we shot it with it's a
• 56:00
  digital camera and it looks like film and all this kind of stuff, and
• 56:02
  we're just sputing things off. There is nowhere in my mind that I believe
• 56:07
  that Roger Ebert will ever watch my film. That's not even that has not
• 56:10
  even crossed my mind at all. I'm just expressing. I'm just expressing.
• 56:16
  I'm just expressing. I'm just expressing to Roger Ebert, who's an idol of
• 56:22
  mine, what I've done as a filmmaker. And then in the middle of
• 56:24
  the conversation, I see something change in his eyes and he kind of tilts
• 56:29
  his head and he goes, can I take a picture of you guys?
• 56:32
  And I said, sure, Roger Ebert, that would be awesome because he
• 56:37
  had he had his like he carried around like you know, this is before
• 56:40
  iPhone, so he carried around his you know, his digital his camera with
• 56:45
  him. So he and he, you know, we take a picture.
• 56:49
  He takes a picture of both of us, and I'm the only ignorant thing
• 56:52
  in my mind is like, well, now I could ask him for a
• 56:54
  picture too, because he asked for one of ours. Because I wasn't going
• 56:58
  to ask him for one until this happened, because I've not got guy.
• 57:01
  I didn't want to be like, get picture, but you took one of
• 57:05
  me, so now it's fair. I want to take a picture with you.
• 57:07
  And he's like sure, So I got a picture with Roger U.
• 57:12
  And then he's like, you know, this story would make a nice little
• 57:15
  story for my blog about up and coming technologies and all of this, because
• 57:22
  all the up and coming technologies and filmmakers using this stuff. I'm like,
• 57:24
  great, would you like to watch our movie? Bam, here's a DVD
• 57:30
  and we happen to have our DVD with us, and he's like, sure,
• 57:34
  I'll take it, so he took it and we're like great, you
• 57:37
  know because originally, as we were talking and talking, he's like, guys,
• 57:40
  I can't, I don't, I can't watch your film. It's not
• 57:44
  in the festival and there's only so many hours in a day I have.
• 57:47
  And we're like, Roger, of course you're not going to watch our film.
• 57:51
  You're Roger Ebert. Why in God's green Earth would you watch our little
• 57:54
  eight thousand dollars short film from West Palm Beach, Florida, Like that makes
• 57:58
  no sense to me. I made him want to watch I'm sorry. So
• 58:00
  then he grabbed it. He took it, and we're like, Okay,
• 58:02
  he'll never watch that, but that was really nice of him to do that.
• 58:06
  We got a picture with Roger Ebert. That's all we got. So
• 58:07
  we fly back to Florida. When we land, our emails blowing up because
• 58:13
  everyone's like, Roger Eber reviewed your film on his blog and wrote a story
• 58:17
  about you. I'm like what. And we went to his website and oh
• 58:23
  my god, it's there. It's still there. It's still, it's still
• 58:27
  there. He wrote a long article about a bunch of films he watched,
• 58:31
  and he in that article. He also wrote about us that he watched the
• 58:36
  film. He gave us two lines in the movie, effective and professional.
• 58:40
  What does it? What do you say? Oh? God it? I
• 58:43
  used to repeat it like on verbatim, but he's like, oh, the
• 58:46
  mastery of horror imagery and techniques. I'm like, holy cow. But he
• 58:52
  was. He was vibing on your authenticity and your passion, so I would
• 58:55
  I had similar things happen like that. But it was a situation and it
• 59:00
  claim up Brown Where Friends twenty four. There's a million filmmakers and they came
• 59:02
  up to me and I got to have my little film on Friends twenty four.
• 59:07
  You know, it was an amazing setitive section. But he said,
• 59:09
  I said, why me, He goes, because you were so passionate and
• 59:14
  excited about your film, So that like translates, that's you know, that's
• 59:17
  a you know, bringing that up. I'm sure that's why he probably was
• 59:20
  like, there's no way in hell I'm going to see these guys film,
• 59:22
  but your passion and your authenticity about it and not pushing it. He was
• 59:27
  like, I got to see this and I'll never forget. I will never
• 59:31
  forget that to the day I die. That a giant like Roger Ebert gave
• 59:36
  a little, a little he sprinkled a little magic dust on us, and
• 59:39
  then from that there ever was still the best, still the best film critics
• 59:44
  in history of film critics. Yeah, but he because of that whoa and
• 59:49
  because of that attention. I that was my lead way exactly every festival,
• 59:55
  I'm like Roger Ebert reviewed it. We'll be right back, or a word
• 1:00:00
  from our sponsor and now back to the show. Roger. Yeah. See,
• 1:00:08
  that's what I mean, like when you you never know, like who's
• 1:00:10
  going to be there and what you're in is going to be I mean,
• 1:00:13
  I've talked about this before, Like I've been in festivals, you know,
• 1:00:15
  with films that have gone to sunday As where they the people in Sundayans didn't
• 1:00:19
  their film, They did nothing with their film, They didn't promote it.
• 1:00:22
  They were just like I'm I was in Sundance, right, Their film didn't
• 1:00:24
  go anyway. It just it was Sundance and that was it, right,
• 1:00:29
  So you got it. So you know, like you you don't have to
• 1:00:30
  get in sun you know, it's it's what you do with your film,
• 1:00:34
  where and who you the passion that you exude when you're you're there and you
• 1:00:37
  you meet Roger eBird. It's it was the most and it was such an
• 1:00:43
  it was like like you were talking about earlier, is like how did these
• 1:00:46
  things happen? There was no reason for us to be there. There would
• 1:00:50
  have been never in everything. Everything just happened, like I met this person
• 1:00:54
  that they like, I feel like you just drew that dude too. Oh
• 1:00:58
  no, there's yeah, there was an energy their thing there no question.
• 1:01:00
  But then you're like, okay, here's the ticket to the screening of this
• 1:01:04
  obscure independent film from Australia. Then and then I just happened to be showed
• 1:01:08
  up and I showed up and oh my god, there's like the universe gave
• 1:01:12
  me the ticket and a lot of people be like, oh, you know
• 1:01:14
  what, I'm just gonna go have a drink with my butt, you know,
• 1:01:15
  you know, like I'm gonna go never and that and that that one
• 1:01:21
  moment, that one moment opened up so many doors and I got called by
• 1:01:25
  like I said, Oscar winning producer. Oh my god, yeah, this
• 1:01:30
  kind of stuff. I mean, the stamp of approval. Yeah it was
• 1:01:34
  and for a short film that wasn't in the Festival in two thousand and five.
• 1:01:37
  He doesn't even he doesn't, he doesn't work there. He doesn't.
• 1:01:40
  Yeah, I mean he does. I think there isn't the only times I've
• 1:01:44
  ever heard him even reviewing a short. And when I say review, I
• 1:01:45
  use that term very loosely. He watched it and gave me two sentences,
• 1:01:50
  talked about it and he said, thinking about it and you can use it.
• 1:01:52
  And it was positive. He said something positive. That was and he
• 1:01:57
  and he was so kind. I could have said it, but he was
• 1:02:01
  the Thing about him is he was kind when he didn't need to be kind.
• 1:02:06
  He was supportive when he didn't need to be supportive, and that is
• 1:02:09
  that is the hallmark of a great, great person in our business. Because
• 1:02:15
  and I've heard this, I've heard similar stories about Steven Spielberg constantly throughout and
• 1:02:22
  I interview many of his collaborators. I've spoken to many people who've worked with
• 1:02:28
  him on the writing side, on the cinematography side, on the producing side,
• 1:02:31
  and I hear the same things about Steven, that he does things behind
• 1:02:35
  the scenes that you just like, oh my god, he has no reason
• 1:02:38
  to be he there's no need for him to be to you always hear good
• 1:02:43
  stuff about James Cameron. James Cameron, well, James Cameron, let me,
• 1:02:47
  I'd love Jim. I mean, Jim's Jim. He's there's no other
• 1:02:51
  filmmaker like him. Good stuff behind the scenes about him. I've heard those
• 1:02:54
  good stuff too. He helps, he helps when he can help. I've
• 1:02:58
  heard there's also those legendary stories about his temper on set. But um,
• 1:03:06
  but he's he's mellowed over the years. And I know a lot of people
• 1:03:07
  who've worked with Jim as well. Um. I actually know one of his
• 1:03:12
  neighbors, uh so, and he told me stories. I was like,
• 1:03:16
  he has what uh so, Um, what does he do? That's amazing.
• 1:03:22
  But there's there's these giants who who are kind when they don't need to
• 1:03:27
  be kind. You know, I got a I got an autograph from George
• 1:03:31
  Lucas in Middle from when he was not that's just his book. I wish
• 1:03:38
  that was a Stanley Kubrick. But but yeah, like he didn't happen,
• 1:03:44
  Yeah, he didn't have to be that nice. So there's these giants who
• 1:03:46
  are nice and are that don't need to be nice, And that's such a
• 1:03:51
  refreshing thing. And Roder Eberts story is one of those. But anyway we
• 1:03:54
  could keeping we could keep yapping about this for hours. Where can people?
• 1:04:00
  Where can people buy your book? Um? So you can get it at
• 1:04:02
  my website. Hey, I'm Clarissa Ja. Or you can get it.
• 1:04:06
  Um Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Target, Sunbury Press published it, so
• 1:04:13
  you can get it there. Um. If you get it for my website,
• 1:04:15
  I'll send you some lunch ladies swag in the book. Um. If
• 1:04:19
  you get it from Amazon, you're probably gonna get a cheaper You can get
• 1:04:21
  it on a kindle. Um, you know. So yeah, is it
• 1:04:25
  an audiobook yet or not yet? No, it's not. When you stopped,
• 1:04:32
  when you stopped talking to me, you're gonna stop start recording your audiobook
• 1:04:38
  and we'll talk about it afterwards. Um. I'm gonna ask you if I
• 1:04:40
  ask you a few questions. I ask all my guests, what advice would
• 1:04:44
  you have for a filmmaker trying to break into the business today. The biggest
• 1:04:48
  thing for me always is to surround yourself, to find a class and surround
• 1:04:53
  yourself with people that will hold you up and help you and to keep learning.
• 1:04:58
  So, what is the lesson that took you the longest to learn,
• 1:05:00
  whether in the film industry or in life, that I am enough. Everybody
• 1:05:06
  talks a lot about filmmakers and artists having egos, but you know, I
• 1:05:14
  always felt, and I know a lot of people feel this way, that
• 1:05:15
  you just I just wasn't no matter how many classes I took, that I
• 1:05:19
  just or no matter how much I did it, that there was that I
• 1:05:23
  just wasn't enough, that I couldn't, you know. And then when I
• 1:05:26
  just kind of set back into like I'm enough and they're either going to get
• 1:05:30
  me or not get me, the things started to turn for me. Like
• 1:05:34
  when you have when you can find that belief in yourself, and I have
• 1:05:39
  this, like I have this crazy story, like when I'm in my twenties.
• 1:05:42
  So I when I was an actress, I wanted to be on Mad
• 1:05:45
  TV, and I like, and this is a perfect example, I wanted
• 1:05:47
  to be a Mad TV and I just bug them and bug them and bug
• 1:05:49
  them for an audition. And I finally get to go to this audition and
• 1:05:53
  you had to do three characters in an impersonation. So I decide that I'm
• 1:05:56
  going to dress up as my character, which was a Bengal lady Betty,
• 1:06:00
  the Bengal Lady, and carry up a suitcase with all my clothes and do
• 1:06:03
  my whole little stand up thing with them. So I show up to the
• 1:06:06
  audition and I'm the only one dressed up and all these girls are kind of
• 1:06:11
  talking, and I hear like the lady at the front desk doesn't know that
• 1:06:15
  I hear, but I hear her go, Clarissa Jacobson's here. You should
• 1:06:18
  see her, right, And I felt so mortified and so embarrassed. Instead
• 1:06:23
  of just being in that place of like a I'm awesome, I showed up.
• 1:06:27
  So when I did my audition, I did Okay, I wasn't.
• 1:06:30
  I just was like I was off. I was off because I was upset
• 1:06:32
  about it. I didn't get I didn't get on my TV. But years
• 1:06:35
  later I read that Pee Wee Herman did the same thing for Saturday Night Live,
• 1:06:40
  and the difference between him and me was he was so completely in his
• 1:06:45
  own like, fuck, yeah, I'm showing up in my clothes, I'm
• 1:06:47
  going to do my thing, and he owned it. And I look back
• 1:06:51
  as like a younger artist about think just not owning my ideas. Yeah that's
• 1:07:00
  that. Yeah, it was so funny because I've actually in my first feature,
• 1:07:04
  I worked with Debrah Wilson and uh and Jie Michelleman, both Mad TV
• 1:07:09
  alumni. Oh really yes, and they tell me stories all the time about
• 1:07:14
  oh my god, that's the golden days of Mad TV and stuff. But
• 1:07:16
  I just was like, if so many times, if I had just owned
• 1:07:19
  because I actually had a freaking good idea. I mean, it was good
• 1:07:21
  enough for Pemie Herman. It's those girls were just being haters. They were
• 1:07:26
  just being haters, you know, And if you could just be authentic with
• 1:07:30
  who you are, that is what's that's what makes you stand out. If
• 1:07:33
  you're authentic and you own your space. Like Andy Kaufman. Come on,
• 1:07:39
  I mean come on, I mean, like you look at Andy Kaufman.
• 1:07:42
  He owned everything he did to a level that is beyond normal human capacity.
• 1:07:48
  And he did it. He did at such a level that they're just like,
• 1:07:51
  well, he's we don't understand what he's doing. Let him sit next
• 1:07:56
  to that record player and seeing Might and Mighty Mouse. I just love him
• 1:08:00
  like it's you like, oh my god, It's like, but that's the
• 1:08:01
  authenticity, the new idea. Don't let the haters get you down, Own
• 1:08:06
  It, Own, Own It and three of You and three of your favorite
• 1:08:10
  films of all time, the Mexican film sount to song great. I don't
• 1:08:15
  know if you've seen that, vaguely sounds familiar. Okay, a girl walks
• 1:08:19
  home alone and I'm sixteen candles, nice mix. John Hughes is a genius,
• 1:08:31
  John, and write teens like even today, nobody writes teens like John
• 1:08:35
  Hughes. Amen. Amen, But Clissa, thank you so much for being
• 1:08:40
  on the show. It has been a it's been a joy talking to you.
• 1:08:44
  And I hope, I hope a whole bunch of filmmakers go out and
• 1:08:46
  read the book because it is a guy to really helping you through these treacherous
• 1:08:50
  waters. And and uh, I appreciate you so thank you again for being
• 1:08:55
  on the show. Thanks so much, Alex, it was really fun.
• 1:08:59
  I want to thank Claire's us so much for coming on the show and dropping
• 1:09:00
  her knowledge bombs on the tribe. Thank you so much, Clarisa. If
• 1:09:03
  you want to get links to anything we spoke about in this episode, head
• 1:09:08
  over to the show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv forard slash three well one,
• 1:09:13
  Thank you so much for listening guys. As always, keep on writing
• 1:09:15
  no matter what. I'll talk to you soon. Thanks for listening to the
• 1:09:18
  Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv.