Latest / Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel / Author Craig Schmell: "The Uninvited" Party Crasher of NYC

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Author Craig Schmell: "The Uninvited" Party Crasher of NYC · Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel

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  Speaker 1: That's B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash P-O-D. Start your journey to
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  Speaker 1: real conversations in a new language today. Craig Schmel has
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: a world-class knack for talking himself into places he wasn't
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: supposed to be. Just to name a few, let's go
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: through them. You've driven inside a presidential motorcade, Reagan's motorcade?
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: That is correct.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: He's gotten high inside the Kremlin.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: That is correct.
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  Speaker 1: He's sung on stage at the Grammys.
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  Speaker 2: I did, indeed.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, all of these things are very interesting, but the
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: most stunning thing about them is that he wasn't invited
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  Speaker 1: to any of them. When his life finally hit rock bottom,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: he had to figure out who he was and what
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: his place in life was going to be going forward
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: to be a better man. His life journey is what
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: inspired him to write The Uninvited, How I Crashed My
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: Way Into Finding Myself, this amazing book we're going to
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: hear all about. Welcome, Craig Schmell.
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  Speaker 2: Nice to meet you.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: Nice to meet you. Thanks for coming.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.
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  Speaker 1: So talk to me about where you're from and your
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: childhood and how you got into all this.
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  Speaker 2: I am from Rockland County, New City, New York. Just
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: near the Tappan Zee Bridge. I graduated Syracuse University, went
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: to law school on Long Island, and then lived in
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  Speaker 2: New York City. It all started because back in the 80s,
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: if you were a guy or two or three guys
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  Speaker 2: trying to get into a nightclub, it was very hard
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: to get into Studio 54 or any of the great nightclubs.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: I had to figure out a way to get in,
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  Speaker 2: and I did.
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  Speaker 1: That's great. But you had all these great credentials. I mean,
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: you went to some good schools. You obviously are very handsome,
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: so it doesn't seem very hard. I'm sure the ladies
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: were not a problem for you. So why couldn't you
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: get in on your own accord, do you think?
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: Because back in those days, I was a nobody. I
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: was still in school, and I didn't have a lot
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: of money. And if you didn't tip the doorman a
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: lot or you didn't show up with a bevy of women,
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: they just didn't let guys in. Right.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: Well, it's similar still today. I used to run the
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: door at many clubs and that was still the idea then. Okay.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: So go on. So what would you say to get
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: into these clubs?
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  Speaker 2: So I would call a nightclub in advance because I
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: always knew if you had a name of somebody that
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: gave you credibility. And usually they wouldn't even give me
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: a name. And I would say I was there the
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: other night and left my jacket. Who is the manager?
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: Hmm.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: And they would give me a manager's name and I
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: would say, oh yeah, I believe that's him. You know what?
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: Let me call you back. I have to do. So
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  Speaker 2: now I had a name and I would call back
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: maybe an hour later and ask for that name. And
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: then usually try to get them on the phone and say, hi,
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  Speaker 2: my name is Craig Schmel. I was at the club
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: Saturday night. We happened to meet. You were very nice.
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  Speaker 2: You gave me your card. And usually when you kind of,
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: throw that at somebody, they meet so many people they-
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  Speaker 2: They don't remember. They don't remember and they didn't want
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  Speaker 2: to embarrass you by saying, I don't remember. Right. So
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  Speaker 2: usually they would say, oh yeah. And then I'd say, listen,
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  Speaker 2: you mentioned if I'm in town and if I want
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  Speaker 2: to come back, you would put my name at the door.
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  Speaker 1: Very smart.
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  Speaker 2: And then once I got there, I would go say
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  Speaker 2: hello to the door, the manager, get a card now
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  Speaker 2: for real and now meet the doorman, get a name.
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  Speaker 2: And now I had names.
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  Speaker 1: And now you're somebody.
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  Speaker 2: Now I'm somebody.
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  Speaker 1: And now they recognize your face. That's correct.
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  Speaker 2: Okay.
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  Speaker 1: So it started with nightclubs.
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  Speaker 2: Correct.
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  Speaker 1: And then what was the next step up from nightclubs?
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  Speaker 2: The next one, well, I went to Russia.
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  Speaker 1: Okay.
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  Speaker 2: During my junior year of college. And I studied in
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  Speaker 2: London and we went to Russia and some friends had
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  Speaker 2: told me if you sell your jeans in Russia. You
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  Speaker 2: can make thousands of ruples.
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  Speaker 1: Is that true?
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  Speaker 2: It's true, yeah. Because they didn't have jeans back in
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  Speaker 2: the day in the old Soviet Union. And we sold
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  Speaker 2: our jeans, made a lot of money. I had a limousine,
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  Speaker 2: a chauffeur, a translator. I snuck marijuana into Russia. This
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  Speaker 2: was probably the stupidest thing I've ever done. And then
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  Speaker 2: we talked our way into the Kremlin and we smoked
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  Speaker 2: part in the Kremlin and we marched in the May
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  Speaker 2: Day Parade. And I just would take things to the
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  Speaker 2: nth team limit.
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  Speaker 1: Oh my goodness.
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  Speaker 2: And it was because I was 20 something years old
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  Speaker 2: and I just didn't think.
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  Speaker 1: There were consequences.
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  Speaker 2: I didn't think there were consequences. Right.
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  Speaker 1: So before we get into the end result, let's talk
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: about more of your war story. So people really understand
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  Speaker 1: kind of where you were going with this. So you
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: did that. I know you drank out of the Stanley Cup, right?
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 1: Did you know a player?
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  Speaker 2: No. After a while, we started to realize that if
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  Speaker 2: you had a laminated pass on your neck, it gave
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  Speaker 2: you now instant credibility because no one ever looked at
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  Speaker 2: the laminated passes. But if it looked, we had this
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  Speaker 2: You know, saying that it's not who you are, it's
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  Speaker 2: who they think you are.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: And if they think you belong, you belong. So we
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  Speaker 2: started to create laminated passes for events and it just skyrocketed.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, my gosh. So you and your friends would get
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  Speaker 1: into these.
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  Speaker 2: We would get into the greatest events. I started going
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  Speaker 2: to premieres of movies at the Ziegfeld. The Grammys at
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  Speaker 2: Radio City, MTV Music Awards at Radio City. The Rangers
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  Speaker 2: won the Stanley Cup.
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  Speaker 3: Let's greet the day by placing a piece of gum
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  Speaker 3: in your mouth. Now chew. You're standing in a vast desert.
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  Speaker 3: The air is minty.
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  Speaker 2: Chew.
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  Speaker 3: In the distance, the day arrives.
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  Speaker 2: Chew.
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  Speaker 3: You say, hello day, we meet again.
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  Speaker 2: Chew.
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  Speaker 3: You shake hands.
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  Speaker 2: Chew.
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  Speaker 3: The day has a strong grip. Chew, but yours is stronger.
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  Speaker 3: Extra gum.
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  Speaker 2: Chew good. 94, we had VIP passes for the locker room.
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  Speaker 2: And that's how I got into the locker room for
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  Speaker 2: the night the Rangers won the Stanley Cup. Wow.
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  Speaker 1: And now tell me about the Grammys.
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  Speaker 2: Grammys was probably the greatest night of my life and
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  Speaker 2: the worst night of my life. I was in my
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  Speaker 2: apartment the night before, Channel 7, Tappy Phillips is reporting
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  Speaker 2: live from the Grammys. Tomorrow is the 30th anniversary of
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  Speaker 2: the Grammys, 1988. It's going to be the greatest night
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  Speaker 2: in the history of music. Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder, U2,
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  Speaker 2: Billy Joel.
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  Speaker 1: It was an endless- Huge lineup.
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  Speaker 2: And this is the night before. And I said to
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  Speaker 2: my buddies, I'm going to go down to Radio City
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  Speaker 2: to- see if I can find something to get us
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  Speaker 2: in for the next night. And another thing I forgot
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  Speaker 2: to mention is another way I got into nightclubs is
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  Speaker 2: I had asthma as a child. So I had an
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  Speaker 2: inhaler that I had that I never used, but I
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  Speaker 2: would use it for doormen to get into nightclubs too.
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  Speaker 2: I would say I left, went to my car to
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  Speaker 2: get my inhaler. I'm just returning.
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  Speaker 1: Wow.
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  Speaker 2: And so if I had a prop, it gave me
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  Speaker 2: even more credibility.
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  Speaker 1: Wow. And nobody ever stopped you?
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  Speaker 2: No one ever stopped me.
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  Speaker 1: This is incredible.
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  Speaker 2: So I went to the Grammys the night before. Big
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  Speaker 2: burly guard at the front door. I said, I'm sorry
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  Speaker 2: to bother you. I had to go to my car
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  Speaker 2: to get my inhaler. And he let me in. Now,
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  Speaker 2: this is the night before. So he's not thinking anything.
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  Speaker 2: And I'm now walking around looking for something to give
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  Speaker 2: me credibility for the next night.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: Long story short, I find a business card on the
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  Speaker 2: ground that says Michael Huddle Hairdressers. I go into Whitney
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  Speaker 2: Houston's dressing room. I take her invitation.
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  Speaker 1: Wait, wait, wait. How did you even get near the
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  Speaker 1: dressing room without- It's the night before.
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  Speaker 2: You could walk anywhere.
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  Speaker 1: You could just walk anywhere.
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  Speaker 2: Nobody stopped me.
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  Speaker 1: Incredible.
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  Speaker 2: Because it's the night before.
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  Speaker 1: You would think that they had a lot of security
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  Speaker 1: all over the place.
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  Speaker 2: Not the night before.
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  Speaker 1: Well, whatever. Any night. Okay, go ahead.
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  Speaker 2: So I walked around gathering props and then I hear
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  Speaker 2: about the, production office down below the stage. And I
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  Speaker 2: go to the production room where there's all these desks
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  Speaker 2: and it says hotels, after parties, limousines. and there's a
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  Speaker 2: desk with a big sign that says VIP passes.
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  Speaker 1: Oh my goodness.
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  Speaker 2: I go up to the young lady and I said, hi,
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  Speaker 2: how are you today? And based on that answer, I
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  Speaker 2: would know what I'm dealing with. If somebody says, fine,
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: thank you. How are you? I know I And she
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: was very nice. And I said, listen, and I held
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: up the Michael Huddle hairdresser card I found when I
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: first walked in. And I said, I'm sorry to bother you.
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  Speaker 2: I'm working with Michael Huddle hairdressers. I lost my VIP pass.
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  Speaker 2: Could you just give me another one? And if I
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: find mine, I promise to bring it back. And I'd
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: also found the broken tag, one of those chains, dog
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: tag chains that I put around my neck that was broken.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: Oh, so it made it look like the story was true.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: It made it look like I lost my VIP pass.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: She said, what's your name? I now decided, do I
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: give her my real name or a fake name? Because
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: if you give her your real name, now they can
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  Speaker 2: find you.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: Long story short, I gave her my real name. I
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: showed her my ID, gave me even more credibility. And
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  Speaker 2: she said, listen, I really shouldn't be doing this, but
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: you seem like a good guy. Here's a VIP. And
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: she gave me an all-access VIP pass. And I took
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: it and ran, got out of there as quickly as
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: humanly possible, went back to my buddies who were still
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: in my apartment. And the next morning we went and
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: photocopied the pass, made a bunch of copies. My buddy
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: Barry came with me. My other buddy chickened out. And
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: we went in with our tuxedos. Walked the red carpet
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: like we belonged.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: You walked the red carpet?
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: Wow. Did you stop for photographs?
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: It wasn't as big back then.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: So it wasn't like the paparazzi line?
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: It was still crazy, but not like today. And we
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: figured out, we had known from previous events that they
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: have what's called fillers that are higher, that stand on
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: the side of the stadium. And when the stars are
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: away from their seats during the filming, the fillers go
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: sit in their seats. And we found three seats right
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: in the front, two seats right in the front, my
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: third row right behind Michael Jackson and Whitney Houston and
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: Billy Joel. And I took pictures with them.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: And no one asked you to move. No one said,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: who are you guys? We have other fillers.
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  Speaker 2: I think we were in U2' s seats and they never
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: came back. And we were backstage because we had the passes.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: And then for the finale, it was hosted by Billy Crystal.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: They asked Billy Crystal, asked all the stars to come
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: on stage to sing together for the 30th anniversary. Everybody
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: went on stage. And I looked at my friend Barry
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: and I said, I'm going up. And I went on
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: stage and I stood next to Michael Jackson and Whitney Houston,
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: said hello to them. They were lovely. They were standing
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: in the back. And then I realized they're filming and
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: I said, listen, and I kind of walked and you
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: see me on video of me walking to the front.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: They were singing a song and they handed me, he
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: put the mic in front of my face and there
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: I was singing for the world at the Grammys. Wow.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: But it was the greatest night, but yet the worst
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: night of my life. It was the greatest night because
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: I could achieve anything and could bullshit my way to
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: the top of the world. But it was the worst
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: night because I started to believe, you know, my own shit.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: Pardon my French. That I can lie and manipulate my way.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: It was kind of the beginning of the end for me,
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: kind of.
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: Let's greet the day by placing a piece of gum
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: in your mouth. Now chew. You're standing in a vast desert.
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: The air is minty.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: Chew.
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: In the distance, the day arrives.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: Chew.
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: You say, hello day, we meet again.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: Chew.
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: You shake hands. Chew. The day is a strong grip.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: Chew.
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: But yours is stronger. Extra gum.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: Chew.
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: Good.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: Changing my life.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: So did you have a job now at this time?
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: I had a job, but I wasn't working hard. I
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: went from job to job. I could barely keep a
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: job for more than three to six months.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: And so going out seemed to be like what you
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: were looking forward to at the end of the day?
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: While my friends were going to work. All day I
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: was doing nothing and it was my time to shine
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: at night. Right.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: And plan your next heist at night or whatever. And
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: your friends, did they see you as like a hero
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: about this or they thought you were a con artist?
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: At the beginning I was a hero and then as
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: I wasn't working, being, living up to my potential, you know,
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: friends started to kind of say, listen, you're too toxic
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: for us. Right. Because I was having way too much fun.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: Got it. And did you ever get caught at any point?
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: Did anyone stop you? Never.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: We got caught at Radio City when I took about
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: 12 guys to see The Who perform Tommy.
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: And we made fake passes and a couple of the
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: guys got caught because we had the same pass and
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: somebody saw that it wasn't numbered and they And a
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: couple of guys got kicked out and I left with
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: them because I didn't want to stay without my friends.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: My brother ended up staying and I think another friend stayed,
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: but I left. But that was the only time we
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: got caught because it got to the point where we
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: were taking 10 people. We would make copies of these passes. Right.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: And I would go to shows with bring five, 10 friends.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: So at this point in your life, you're living your
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: best life. You're going out, you're having fun, but you
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: don't really have any stable- work or things going on.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: Did you have a girlfriend?
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: I had a girlfriend and a couple on the side.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: Oh, and a couple on the side. Did she know
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: about the couple?
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, no.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: Got it. Okay. Did she, did that end up becoming
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: a problem? The women on the side, I mean.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: It became a problem. Yes.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: Okay. So we'll get to that. So what started to
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: be sort of the tipping point for you?
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: I was drinking more and more as I've was just
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: kind of spiraling. And my time to shine was at night,
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: but I had no clue why, how. I had gone
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: to great schools, I had a lot of potential, and
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: I was just lost. But in my back of my mind,
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: I always would think that I had this great potential,
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: and I kind of felt if I ever channeled it
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: in a proper direction, I probably could do something productive.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: But I was stuck. Right.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: Well, it seems like you had these great skills because
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: you obviously could talk to anybody. You could negotiate or
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: weasel your way into any scenario. And it was almost
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: like you had this mentality of fake it till you
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: make it, and you made it every time. So those
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: skills are actually really good, but probably if you put
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: them in the right place. If they're in the wrong place,
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: it's dangerous.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: And I think that's the reason why my parents continued
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: to enable me. They saw that I had potential and
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: didn't want to disrupt. The tough love was about to come. Right.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: And it came December 7th of 1990.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: Oh, and what happened then?
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: They showed up at my apartment on a Saturday morning.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: I was hungover, sleeping, and they proceeded to read me
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: the riot act.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: And how old were you at this point?
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: 28. Okay.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: And what was the riot act in this situation?
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: The riot act was my mother said, I love you,
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: but I don't like you. And my father said, I
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: have more respect for a bum on the street corner
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: wiping windows at red lights. At least he's trying to
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: make something of his life. Wow. You have more potential
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: in your pinky than anybody I've ever met. And you're
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: not even trying. And it all stops here. And he said, essentially,
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: either you get help And we will support you and
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: help you and be there with you or continue on
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: the destructive path you're on. And you are dead to us. Wow.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: We don't want to know from you ever again. Don't call.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: Don't write. You're out of my will. Don't call your brothers.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: You're dead to us.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: So were they financially supporting you? Were they taking that
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: away from you at that point?
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: Essentially, the enablers came and stopped enabling.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: So obviously, that was going to be hard for you.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: So you couldn't talk your way out of that.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: I would have been homeless because they were helping with
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: the rent.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: Oh, with the rent too.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: I didn't own a wallet or watch. I didn't have
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: a bank account.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: Got it. So the job you had or the job.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: At that point, I didn't even have a job and
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: was lying to my parents that I did. Oh boy.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: Okay. So it was an ultimatum. It wasn't like we're stopping.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: It was like you need to stop or else.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: Correct.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: So how did that go over?
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: I went home with them. Because they said either you
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: stay here and we'll leave and you're dead to us
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: or come home and get help and we'll help you.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: I had no choice. Essentially, I went home and I
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: met a man who would change my life.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: So were you at the point where you were drinking
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: a lot? Were you doing drugs a lot? Or was
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: it just the lying that was so out of control?
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: It was everything, right? And I couldn't understand it. I
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: didn't understand it. It was just survival. And, you know...
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: I just saw the world. No one ever taught me
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: certain things. I was taught essentially. And I came from
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: a great family and went to great schools. But, you know,
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: you do whatever you have to do to survive. Yeah.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: You know, and I knew lots of people that cheated.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: I knew lots of people that smoked pot regularly. I
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: knew lots of people that drank. I just took it
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: a little to the extreme and I just didn't.
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: Let's greet the day by placing a piece of gum
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: in your mouth. Now chew. You're standing in a vast desert.
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: The air is minty.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Chew.
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: In the distance, the day arrives.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: Chew.
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: You say, hello day, we meet again.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: Chew.
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: You shake hands. Chew. The day has a strong grip.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: Chew.
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: But yours is stronger. Extra gum.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: Chew good. I couldn't see clearly. I was just lost. Right.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: Or there was no end game. It seems like that
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: happens maybe a lot for kids at a certain point,
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: and then they stop, and then they're forced to go
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: get a job on Wall Street or at a bookstore.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: It doesn't matter where, but they're just forced to do
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: something to change that and find some stability.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: And my enablers allowed me to postpone that.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: Got it.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: So we're talking about meeting a man that changed your life.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Tell me about that.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: I met a psychiatrist by the name of Dr. Arthur Knauert, Dr. K.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: And essentially my life changed after him getting to know
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: who I was and how I was living my life.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: He asked me a very simple question. And that simple
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: question was, do you like yourself? And nobody had ever
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: asked me that. And I said, yes. And he said, really,
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: tell me why. And I said, well, I have a
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: great apartment in New York City, a hot girlfriend and
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: great family. And he said, Craig, that's not a reason
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: to like yourself. And I had been telling him about
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: my life and he pointed out the window to a stranger.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: And he said, do you see that stranger walking? And
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: I said, yes. He said, keep your eye on that stranger.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: And I said, okay. And he said, what if I
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: told you that stranger was you? What if I told
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: you that stranger you as underachieved throughout his life. Could
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: have been a better student in school. When he was
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: a student, he cheated, as I did. Took the shortcut always.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: When he played sports, didn't try his hardest. Would you
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: like that person? I said, no. And he said, what
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: if I told you that person, when he had a girlfriend,
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: had three girlfriends on the side? What if I told
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: you that person, when he had a job, didn't work hard?
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: He went in late, left early. What if I told
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: you that guy across the street could have been a
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: better son, a better friend, a better person? Would you
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: like that person? And I said, no. And he said, well,
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: then how could you possibly like yourself? I just described you. Wow.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: And I cried like a baby. And it was the
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: first time anybody had ever told me why I had
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: this soul sickness in my soul that I just never
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: felt good about me. And I cried. I almost cried
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: out of joy as well as sadness because it was
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: the first time I had heard the truth about me.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: And with tears rolling down my face, I said, what
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: do I do? And he said in the most loving,
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: kind voice, he said, Craig, in order to build self-esteem,
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: you have to do esteemable acts. I said, what do
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: you mean? And he said, every day, You show up
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: and you're a man of honor, integrity, commitment. You lift
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: yourself up and you build self-esteem. Every day, if you
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: have a job, I don't care if you drive a
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: taxi cab, be the best taxi driver you can be.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: Don't make it a job, make it a career. If
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: you have a girlfriend and you make a commitment, you
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: live up to that commitment. If you want to tell
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: 20 girls you're seeing 19 other girls and be honest
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: and they all are okay with it, fine. but be honest,
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: be honest with yourself. And he explained that when you're
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: late and you make a commitment and you're telling somebody
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: you're going to be somewhere at five and you get
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: there at 520, you hurt them, but you're hurting you
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: more because you're defining yourself as unreliable, a man that
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: doesn't live up to his commitments. And I've been trying
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: to live that way now for 32 years. Wow.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: That's unbelievable. So What was your first tangible step, though,
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: walking out of the office or wherever you were sitting
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: with him? How did you find your purpose?
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: I found my purpose, I think, first by getting a
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: job and being good at it.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: And did you know what you wanted to do at
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: that point?
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: No, I had graduated law school. I had failed the bar.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: I had no right passing the bar because I never
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: studied and never tried my hardest because I kept underachieving
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: my whole life. I kind of lived with the motto
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: of minimal effort, maximum result. And my friends used to say,
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: in order to pass the bar, you have to pass
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: the bar. Yeah. And I couldn't pass either one. Right.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: And I decided to, I had a roommate from college,
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: worked at Lehman Brothers. I decided to go work on
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: Wall Street. And I started to find something, A, that
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: I was really good at, that I really liked. And
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: I made it a career. And it brought me a
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: lot of self-esteem. And I would go to work at
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: 6 a.m., stay till 10 o'clock sometime. And I started
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: to work hard. And I stopped drinking. And I started
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: to feel better and better about myself.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: And was it hard to take the nightlife aspect out
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: of the equation and the drinking or whatever else was
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: going on on the side?
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: What happened was I started to just feel better about life.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: And it became easier and easier to stay away from
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: drinking and drugs. I went to a 12-step program, which
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: also helped. I surrounded myself with like-minded people. And It
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: just kind of took on a life of its own.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: I started to help others and it started to make
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: me feel really good. And I've been doing it now
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: for almost 32 plus years.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: And what was your parents' reaction? How long did it
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: take them to see a change in you?
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: It took a little time. And in fact, a great
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: thing to tell you about is I went to my
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: dad to make apologies for all the damage I had done.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: And I had it written.
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: Let's greet the day by placing a piece of gum
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: in your mouth. Now chew. You're standing in a vast desert.
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: The air is minty.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: Chew.
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: In the distance, the day arrives.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: Chew.
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: You say, hello day, we meet again.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: Chew.
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: You shake hands.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: Chew.
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: The day has a strong grip.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: Chew.
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: But yours is stronger. Extra gum. Chew good.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: Not all these things I wanted to say. And as
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: I'm starting to say, dad, I am so sorry. Before
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: I can finish the word sorry, he said, stop talking.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: And I said, dad, you don't understand. I want to
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: tell you. He said, stop talking. And I stopped talking.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: And he said, Craig, your words mean nothing to me.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: You've apologized a thousand times. And he basically said to me,
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: I want desperately to be judged by my intentions, but
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: the world only judges me by my actions. Don't tell
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: me what you're going to do. Don't tell your mother.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: Don't tell your brothers. Just live it. And if you
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: live it, people will see it. That's the only thing
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: that matters in life. And he ended by saying that
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: great men and women don't have to tell anybody how
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: great they are. People just know.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: That's a great quote.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: You are what you do, not what you say you do. Yeah.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: So do you have any regrets about what you did
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: in the past?
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: None. None.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: That's an interesting answer. Elaborate on that a little bit.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: I lived an amazing life. I hurt one young lady,
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: maybe two, but at the end of the day, I
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: had a lot of fun. I didn't steal anything. I
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: didn't rob. I never got arrested. I was just having
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: the best time. And I have zero regrets because it
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: all had to happen to be the man I am today. Right.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of people don't understand that it's
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: okay to make a wrong turn to make a right
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: turn or that you have to go down whatever path
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: you have to take to figure things out.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: I agree.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: Having a lot of negative things in your life or
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: partying or it doesn't even have to be negative, but
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: going down a certain path that's different than what you
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: end up on is so important because you wouldn't have
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: gotten there unless you learned those lessons. And I think
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: some people really beat themselves up too much and think, oh,
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: I'm starting too late in life to have a second
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: act or to figure it out. Or I don't know
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: what my purpose is. And they get so stuck because
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: they feel like they've aged out of figuring it out.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: But it's sort of like all the life lessons that
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: you have, in my opinion, are so important because that's
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: how you figure out what you don't want to do
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: and what you're good at and what makes you happy
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: and doesn't make you happy, don't you think?
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: I agree. One of the great lessons I learned through Dr. K,
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: and it's true because I can tell you that the
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: three or four worst days of my life have all
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: turned out to be the best days of my life.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: And Dr. K used to teach me about making choices, right?
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: Our lives are defined by the choices that we make.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: And Dr. K used to teach me about when life
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: comes at you, you have choices. You can react with
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: emotion or you can respond with intellect. When you act
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: with emotion, you make poor choices because you're emotional. When
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: you respond with intellect, you make better choices. I don't
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: need to be right. I like to be happy. Most
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: people want to be right and go to any extreme
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: to prove they're right, but I just want to be happy.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: So Dr. K used to always tell me, you never
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: make anything better by making it worse. And so when
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: life comes at you and it's not the way you
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: want it, you have a choice. to either react with
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: emotion and make things worse or respond with intellect. I
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: worked for Morgan Stanley in 2008 and I watched the
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: banking crisis. The banks almost went out of business. Lehman
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: Brothers went out of business. Bear Stearns went out of business.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: And I watched Morgan Stanley stock go from 70 to
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: six in about a week and a half. And I
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: could have reacted with emotion and I know a lot
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: of people did. And what did I do? I kind
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: of looked for an opportunity and I got into the
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: gym business. And I opened up a franchise of gyms
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: called Retro Fitness and ended up doing very well. My
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: wife wanted a divorce about 10 years ago. It was
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: the most painful thing I've ever been through. But I
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: divorced with love instead of fighting. And I didn't want
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: to fight because of Dr. K. And I gave her
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: anything and everything she wanted. And I did it because
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: of my children. And I did it because of love.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: It's probably the most beautiful, most esteemable thing I've ever accomplished. Wow.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: Because today, her and I are best friends. And I
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: have two beautiful daughters that never saw the chaos of
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: a divorce.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: That's amazing. So I'm 48. I feel like I have
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: friends that I see going out all the time, right?
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: And even at my age, they're constantly going out. They're constantly,
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: their lives revolve around making plans, traveling? What restaurant are
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: we going to? What outfit are we getting? It's just
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: superficial nonsense, right? And I am constantly feeling like a
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: lot of that because I was in the nightclub business
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: for so long. And because I'm the opposite of that now,
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of how that takes a toll.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: But I feel like a lot of that is because
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: people are running from something in their own lives that
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: they're not necessarily happy with. And for people that maybe
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: are not necessarily doing that just to blow off steam
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: and have fun, if it's become a problem and it's
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: affecting their marriages or their work or their lives because
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: they can't keep it together, those to me are people
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: that are kind of running because they don't have a purpose.
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: And so what is your advice then for people that
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: have kind of figured out, yeah, I don't have a purpose.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: I'm just coasting or I'm chasing or I'm looking for
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: things externally. How would they get on the path of
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: actually finding something that they do like? Because I think
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: that's the hardest thing. Like they figured out they're not happy,
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: but how do they get on the path of finding
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: happiness when they've been off of that path for so long?
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: It's certainly an inside job, right? It certainly starts with
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: making better choices in your life. And I think it
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: also helps to have a purpose by doing charity work,
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: giving back to others. finding a hobby that inspires them,
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: meeting new people in that hobby, right? I don't need
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: to go out. I don't even enjoy going out that
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: much because it doesn't really, I don't like the people
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: you meet and it's all superficial. And I find that,
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: you know, whether it be in hobbies or even learning
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: to spend time, quality time by yourself, And that's something
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: I've also learned about. I used to think that if
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: I'm by myself, I'm alone. And I don't look at
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: it that way. I learned from Dr. K, right? If
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: you change the way you look at things, the things
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: you look at change. And so when I'm by myself,
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: I'm not alone. I'm by myself. The truth is I
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: have two beautiful daughters. beautiful life, many wonderful friends, two brothers, family.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: I have a wonderful life and I've learned to just
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: love me. And I think it starts by doing esteemable acts.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: And usually that starts by helping others. When I'm helping
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: others and doing for others service, I don't have even
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: a chance to think about me.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: Right. That's a great answer. What would you say to
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: people that are like listening to this story and they're like,
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: wait a minute, he sounds like he was having so
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: much fun. What a great life. Now he sounds like
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: this boring guy that doesn't like to go out. My
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: question is, what is misunderstood about a purposeful life, really?
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: Well, the truth is I still love to go out.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: I go to the theater regularly. I'm going to the
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: Knick game tonight. I have season tickets for the Rangers now.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: I don't even have to sneak in. I have this
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: wonderful life, and it starts and stops by just constantly
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: doing esteemable acts. Yeah. When I tell somebody I'm going
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: to be somewhere, I'm there. When I tell somebody I'm
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: going to do something, I do it. Because I have
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: learned that when I don't, I may hurt you, but
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: I hurt me more. And I don't like hurting me.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: I have this wonderful life today. I love getting up
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: in the morning. And I think most people, a lot
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: of people need alcohol to escape, drugs to escape, food
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: to escape, gambling to escape, sex to escape, right? And
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: it's all connected. It's just because people don't feel good
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: about self.
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: And even the women you referred to get dressed up
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: and go out. They get attention from strangers. They feel
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: better about self.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: And when you feel good about yourself and it's hard,
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: it takes time and it takes work. But by doing
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: esteemable acts, it helps. If you ask me today, Craig,
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: do you love yourself? I don't know. But I can
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: tell you I like myself a lot more than I
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: did when I started my journey 32 years ago. Yeah.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: I love hearing that. That was my last question for you.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: How do you feel about yourself now?
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: I'm a work in progress. I still make mistakes. I
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: still want to sneak into places. I was at Walgreens
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: a couple of years ago and there was an old
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: lady in front of me with 14 items. And there
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: was a person at the register and I walked out
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: with a $ 1. 79 light bulb because I didn't want to
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: wait because sometimes I can be impatient and intolerant and
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: risk my job and getting in trouble for $ 1. 79. I
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: did go back the next day and I made an
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: amends and I gave the manager, but I'm a work
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: in progress. And so every day I want to do
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: good and I'm always working on myself. We never should stop.
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: Because we're human beings. We're flawed and we're all flawed.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: But it feels good to work on yourself. And it
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: feels good to get healthier and healthier. And it all
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: starts and stops with making wise choices. And the only
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: reason why my life looks so different today, I'm an
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: amazing father to two beautiful daughters who I am accountable
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: every second, every minute of the day. And that's another
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: esteemable act, right? Every day I do good and I
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: go to bed, I feel better about me. And I
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: look forward to getting up the next day to do good.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: There's so much to do in life. And that's part
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: of the reason why I wrote this book and now
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: making it into a movie.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: That's fantastic. I think that's really good advice for people
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: looking for a purpose and trying to figure out their
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: second act in life. So yeah, where can people get
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: this book?
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: It's online. You can download it and listen to it
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: on Audible. They're starting to make it into a movie.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: Fantastic. Who's going to play you?
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: They're looking right now, maybe at Austin Butler, who from Elvis.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow. Do you think he can get your accent down?
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: We'll see.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: He did such a good job with Elvis.
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: I align myself with a producer, director named Michelle Danner,
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: who just directed a movie called Miranda's Victim with Andy
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: Garcia and Abigail Breslin and a bunch of stars and
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: She's going to do the movie and we'll see.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: Amazing. I cannot wait for that. And I hope everybody
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: will go and get the book. Thank you so much, Craig.
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: I appreciate your time.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: Nice to meet you. So nice. You too. Thanks.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to our podcast, Misunderstood
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: with Rachel Uchitel. Please be sure to subscribe to the
• 39:12
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• 39:14
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• 39:21
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• 39:29
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much. and I can't wait to see
• 39:30
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• 40:02
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