Latest / Foul Territory / Joe Maddon Unfiltered on Ohtani’s workload, Intentional HBPs, Devers/Castellanos situations, Front office influence

Transcript

Joe Maddon Unfiltered on Ohtani’s workload, Intentional HBPs, Devers/Castellanos situations, Front office influence · Foul Territory

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: My rule for the position players was to respect ninety
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: feet and my rules for the pitchers were too. I
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: wanted you to work on your defense on a daily basis.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Whatever that meant, just please, I want good defensive pitchers.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Other than that, man, you were on your own.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: Here we go.
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: We got Joe Madden joining us right now, former longtime skipper,
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: and many ways to check out what Joe's doing.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: We'll talk about the pod and all of that coming
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: up in a moment. Joe.
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: Great to have you on. I'm sure you've been listening
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: to some of our banter here. AJ wants to know
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: if you've ever code read him before to hit him,
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: and what you thought about the recent back and forth
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: with the Padres and Dodgers.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: How you doing good? Thanks for having me boys, and yeah, listen,
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: we had a lot of reason to code red AJ,
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: but never did. Right.
• 0:46
  Speaker 4: That is a lie.
• 0:46
  Speaker 5: That is a bull faced lie, Joe, because calviam Basketball
• 0:50
  Speaker 5: hit me after we beat you oh five.
• 0:52
  Speaker 4: The next year my first bat and you weren't the manager,
• 0:55
  Speaker 4: but you were the bench coach.
• 0:56
  Speaker 5: So I'm playing in Sosia and you and then and
• 1:00
  Speaker 5: then there was.
• 1:01
  Speaker 4: One in twenty twelve.
• 1:02
  Speaker 5: You were still in you were still in Tampa and
• 1:05
  Speaker 5: Alex cob hitting me after you guys thought I had
• 1:07
  Speaker 5: a dirty slide on Zobras, and then Katana threw behind
• 1:11
  Speaker 5: Ben Zobris.
• 1:12
  Speaker 4: You guys all whined, and that was the famous hawk Harrelson.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Wagner, what are you doing? See, when you have a
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: really good veteran team, the manager never has to say anything,
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: and you know that really should should never have to
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: come from the manager. These are the kind of things
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: you talk about in spring training. Uh, And it's always
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: about defending your own brood. My experience has been most
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: of the times when this has red, it's obviously obvious
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: when it should happen. But what normally occurs is that
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: a veteran pitcher will mosey up to somebody, whether it's
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: somebody in a bullpen coming into the game, a guy
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: in the pen, or somebody on the bench itself. But
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: these are conversations we all have in spring training. I
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: could honestly tell you I've never went up and told
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: or asked anybody to hit a batter, but it's it's
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: been done because of the unwritten rules. And you guys
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: were talking about something previous to this about a pitcher's
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: or pitch that cannot do it. I'll tell you why.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, I had a young pitcher with the Rays
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: that one of the dudes asked him to hit somebody,
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: and this guy was totally freaked out of it. He's
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: a really good picture because he had never done it
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: before and he didn't want to do it, and this
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: is it puts the guy in a very difficult situation.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: So really, when you asked, when it's asked of a
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: pitcher to do something like this, and I know, like
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: Ozzie would get upset if somebody didn't drow somebody at
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: the right time. I know that, but you have to
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: ask the right guys. Chuck Philly one of the best.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Chuck you would pick out a thigh. That was this
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: big thing like I think Eric brought up about or
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: somebody brought up about throwing behind the guy at his butt.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Pick out a thigh is always the most effective way.
• 2:40
  Speaker 6: Joe I one time got in trouble from a manager
• 2:44
  Speaker 6: because I told one of our pitchers to hit somebody
• 2:48
  Speaker 6: because they hit Yelly three times in a row and
• 2:51
  Speaker 6: the Cardinals just nobody on our team, and I got
• 2:55
  Speaker 6: aired out by Craig counsel. So have you seen it
• 2:58
  Speaker 6: where managers only want to be the one that's ordering
• 3:02
  Speaker 6: the code read.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: I can't. I can't say that specifically because I know so.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: She never wanted to throw at anybody. I'm going to tell
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: you that right straight up. So she did not like
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: that at all. And again, like I've started, I've not
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: specifically seen that. No, But again back to my original point,
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: conversation in spring training was always about protecting one another.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: You talk about the Cardinals. The time I was with
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: the Cubs, the Cardinals as much as anybody would throw
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: at somebody that was part of their culture there, and
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: you knew that. And I remember specifically there's a situation
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: in Wrigley where I felt that was happening against us.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: And my comment afterwards was that we don't start anything,
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: but we're going to stop stuff. We'll stop something that occurs.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: So if you in fact believe you're being attacked, of
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: course you have to retaliate. I don't care what anybody says.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: I don't care about the narrative that's been created in
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: today's games. It's just the way things need to be done.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you the two thousand and eight Rays send
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: it as quickly as we did because of the fight
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: we had in spring training with the Yankees and then
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: the fight we had with the Red Sox there season,
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: because we had to take that division. Nobody was going
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: to give it to us, and these guys were pushing
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: the Devil Rays around for years. So I think the
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: two of the biggest moments there seven of moments in
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: the history of the Rays was the fight when Elliot
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: Johnson pancaked Francisco Servelli at home plate in a spring
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: training game, and the other one was when Shields got
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: Cocoa Crispin the thigh to start the game after there
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: was in issue of the night before these You know,
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: some people could argue all they want, but these are
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: the kind of things that may be necessary to galvanize
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: a team, and all of a sudden, yeah, you start
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: believing in yourself. He become a little bit tougher, quite frankly.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: And I don't I don't see anything wrong with it.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: I don't want anybody throw on anybody's head, Absolutely not.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: That's not the point. Picking out of thighs the pro
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: way of doing it, all right.
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: Two things, One, Ozzie, once you mentioned that he got mad.
• 4:47
  Speaker 5: I was there for that. I was catching I got
• 4:49
  Speaker 5: hit twice. He told somebody to throw it a guy.
• 4:52
  Speaker 5: He missed, he got he didn't took him out. It's
• 4:54
  Speaker 5: a whole song. It's still is raging today because the
• 4:58
  Speaker 5: kid got sent down. He was getting sent down or regardless,
• 5:00
  Speaker 5: but he missed. And then Azzie came out put on
• 5:02
  Speaker 5: a show and it was a big and I had
• 5:04
  Speaker 5: nothing to I didn't tell anybody to hit anybody. Somehow
• 5:07
  Speaker 5: I get that I was told I didn't tell anybody
• 5:09
  Speaker 5: hit anybody. I didn't know what was going on. I
• 5:11
  Speaker 5: knew that he was getting sent down. After the game.
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: It just sucked for the kid. Whatever, I apologize, I
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: had none do with it.
• 5:16
  Speaker 5: So but then my question is is I've also seen
• 5:18
  Speaker 5: this one because Tom Okay, So I had Tom Kelly.
• 5:21
  Speaker 5: Tom Kelly wouldn't put a young kid in to hit
• 5:22
  Speaker 5: a guy. He would say, Rookie, no, I want a
• 5:25
  Speaker 5: veteran because of what you said. Now, have you ever
• 5:27
  Speaker 5: had a guy tell you no, Because I've seen that
• 5:30
  Speaker 5: happen too, where a manager has gone to a player
• 5:33
  Speaker 5: and said I want you to hit this guy, and
• 5:34
  Speaker 5: this picture said no, I'm not doing it again.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: I've never said that directly to a picture. I have not.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: I know that you'll see that. Like I said, a
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: vet might mosey up to somebody in between innings, or
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: it could come from the bullpen, comes from all a
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: bunch of different directions. I've seen guys attempt to hit
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: somebody and miss, and at some point you got to
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: stop trying. I mean, you just can't keep throwing at
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: him like he's a dartboard. That's not the point. So
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: I've seen that where it's failed, and then you've got
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: to move on. At some point. You don't want to
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: hurt anybody, even when it's when you throw at and
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: sometimes miss intentionally, at least the message has been sent.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: Of course, the guy on your team that had been
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: hit really would prefer a pound of flesh. I understand that,
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: But there's these little the nuance of doing something like this.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: The hit needs to be below the waist, I believe,
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: and sometimes it has to be done. The message has
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: been sent, and I'll argue that with anybody today's world,
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: especially let's just say the sports world in baseball, doesn't
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: believe in this kind of stuff where where you get
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: to the point where there's an instant replay going on
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: things that are being reviewed, and you have guys from
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: two different teams standing on second base, arm in arm
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: practically looking at the scoreboard because score all this stuff
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: really I think subtracts emotion from the game. The technology,
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: more technology involved, the less emotion involved. So that part
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: of it I don't like. So you're seeing that bore today.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: Nobody really wants to be that crew. But I didn't
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: see the Padre Dodger exchange, by the way. I have
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: to check that out. But in today I can see
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: shilty shilty with the Padres. I get that day with
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: the Dodgers, you know, and these are two of the
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: better teams. You have to take your own turf man.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: Nobody's going to give it to you.
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: Agreed. I agree.
• 7:14
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• 7:17
  Speaker 3: It's always golf season down in Florida, but we're in
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: the thick of golf season across the country and someone's
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: looking to get a new club.
• 7:25
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• 7:28
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• 7:29
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• 7:31
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• 7:35
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• 7:38
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• 7:41
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• 7:43
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• 7:45
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• 7:52
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• 7:59
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• 8:02
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• 8:12
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• 8:14
  Speaker 5: All right, let's go on to something a little bit
• 8:17
  Speaker 5: just as crazy as throwing it. Guys Rafield Devers talking
• 8:20
  Speaker 5: about emotion. Well, it's got emotional for the Red Sox
• 8:23
  Speaker 5: and for him. How would you have handled this situation
• 8:25
  Speaker 5: if you were the manager of the Red Sox. I mean,
• 8:28
  Speaker 5: what's your thoughts on this? Because you've been through a lot.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it starts it starts in the beginning. I guess
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: that's yogiism. You know, the moment that they knew they
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: wanted to get Bregman and they had a chance to
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: get Bregman. I think that's when the dialogue needed to
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: be created. Now with Devers, I know that the concern
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: there is that, well, what if we don't sign him
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: and we've broke the subject and all of a sudden
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: he's going to be upset. So I'm going to talk
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: to Devers. We might get Bregman, all of a sudden,
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: it doesn't happen. Are we going to inflict some kind
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: of a mental injury on it? Because we've talked about it.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: There's a fairness about that point. However, if they knew
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: they were really down the road to pregnant, this stuff
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: was going to happen. I think at that point the
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: conversation had to begin. So a that number two Bregman
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: has to be the third basement, no question, there's no
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: parceling around that. The point I think where they made
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: the mistake is to tell them to put his glove
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: down completely at that point there, I really I kind
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: of believe I would have asked him to continue to
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: take ground balls if both third and first base, and
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: then beyond that, you try to get them a game
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: maybe once a week on defense somewhere, either at third
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: or first, or maybe one at each place. Give Bregmant
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: a day off, give the first base in the day off,
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: et cetera. And keep this guy solving and keep him
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: on the field. Because when you get guys that young,
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: you just want to turn them into dhs. It's not easy.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: I had was part of four outfielders with the Angels
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: erstat Samon Edmunds and Ga Garrett Anderson in the nineties
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: at some point there with oh, this is a great idea.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: One of them will DH per week. We'll give the
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: other so they get one day off a week and
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: we'll rotate it that way. It's be wonderful. They hated it.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: They absolutely hated it. When you're talking about young, younger players,
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: the thought of kind of being castrated, I'm not a
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: player anywhere I can't be on the field bothers them
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: a lot, and you're you're you're really slicing an ego
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: at that point too. So those are the points that
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: need to be you have to be careful with in
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: the conversation has to be Frank has to be honest,
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: don't dissemble, none of the executive talk. Front office, stay
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: out of this. Let Alex handle that. Too many chefs
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: not good. So there's a lot of things that went
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: wrong with this. But from the beginning, I call Jack
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: Ryan as a protagonist and all the Clancy novels not
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: mister President. He wasn't your friend. He wasn't just a
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: friend of yours. He was your best friend. Go right
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: to it. Run towards the issue, don't tap dance around it,
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: because eventually it turns into devers playing in San Francisco.
• 10:50
  Speaker 6: Does this feel like something that the front offices nowadays
• 10:54
  Speaker 6: maybe overstep the manager And did you need to keep
• 10:59
  Speaker 6: that did you need to keep that at length when
• 11:01
  Speaker 6: you were a manager, like, Hey, I need you to
• 11:04
  Speaker 6: stay up in your front office. I'll take care of
• 11:07
  Speaker 6: what's going on in the field in the clubhouse. Or
• 11:09
  Speaker 6: is that something that the game has changed since the
• 11:13
  Speaker 6: years you've been you know how long you have been
• 11:15
  Speaker 6: in it.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: The game hasn't changed. The administration of the game has changed. Yes,
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: I mean everybody always talks about the game has changed,
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: and I dispute that it's the same game. But how
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: we're administrating it is different. And yes, when I was
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: back in you know, the eighties and nineties whatever, when
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: I was trying to get to the big leagues, gms
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: were afraid to come in clubhouses. You never saw them.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: You never saw front office personnel in clubhouses there. You know,
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: they did their job, which was to acquire players, keep
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: everything rolling properly, put seats in this, fannies and butts
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: in the seats, et cetera, et cetera. But they weren't
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: necessarily they were never really involved in the coaching of
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: you know, the distribution of information. Whatever. You had, You
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: had advanced scouts, you had your your your coaches on
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: the team, you had your manager who normally set the
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: patterns for the whole organization. Now I'm not here to
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: tell that that was all correct. I used to get
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: upset with that because I thought, we we have a
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: new manager with every two or three years. With the
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: Angels back in the day, and you're constantly turning over
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: your cutoffs and relays, your first and third place. You know, offensively,
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: what was important is the bunt, could you know Buck
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: Rogers like the stink play like stealing third base on
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: a fake a butt with the say with the delay,
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: steal a second. Every manager brought his own stuff into
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: the mix. Today, That's not true, and I, like I said,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: I disputed that I wanted to see more of a
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: homogenized method of the Angels play regardless of who the
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: manager was. Now it's gone to the absolute opposite extreme
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: where the homogenation comes from. Emogenization comes from the front office,
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: and the manager pretty much is at the at the
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: whim of all that, or at the edict of all that.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: We as managers today definitely is a middle manager. It's
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Jean Bak would would not get a job today. Early
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: would not get a job today. White and Herzog would
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: not get a job today. That kind of authoritarian authority figure. Uh,
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: you know, somebody that really knew what he wanted and
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: what he liked would have never been listened to. That
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: guy would have never had this opportunity. You'd have never
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: heard of these people if the game was administrated back
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: then like it is now. So game is the same,
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: the way it's being uh, like I said, processed on
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: a daily basis is completely different. And so the other
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: front office is way more involved in daily conversations analytical departments,
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: way more involved in instruction, quite frankly, and they're they're
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: down in the field before the game, they're in they're
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: in bullpens, are in batty cages, or every place they
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: should not be. So yes, that's what's different about the game,
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: not the game itself.
• 13:54
  Speaker 6: Have you ever needed to stand on business, as the
• 13:56
  Speaker 6: kids say, when a player says something to you? Rob Thompson,
• 14:02
  Speaker 6: Rob Thompson said, Nick Castianos after he got taken out
• 14:06
  Speaker 6: of the game, went too far? What his comments went
• 14:09
  Speaker 6: too far? And Rob Thompson was standing on business and said,
• 14:13
  Speaker 6: you know what, you're not playing today.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever told somebody's not playing based
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: on what he said to me, I'm pretty sure. Although
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: I did have one situation though i'll go back. I'm
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: not going to name names, but I had an issue
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: with one player called him in, had a couple of
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: the coaches with me so that everything I said was
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: verified or validated, and told me he wasn't going to play
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: until a certain thing occurred, and so I did that.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: But it wasn't something he had said. It's something that
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: I did not like on the field. So that's what
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: that was. From and then after a day or two,
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: I thought to myself, you know what, I'm wrong. He
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: was not wrong, he was wrong in a sense, but
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: I was totally wrong the way I presented it to him.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: So I apologized to him and I put him back
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: in the lineup after couple of dates, because after I
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: evaluated what I had said and the process that I
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: went through, I thought my process was wrong even more
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: than his was. So that happened one time. Otherwise, you know,
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: I've taken guys out of games for different reasons, but
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: this always like a warning in advance if they're breaching
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: some of the I have some really easier or no
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: rules at all. My rule for the position players was
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: to respect ninety feet, and my rules for the pictures
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: were too. I wanted you to work on your defense
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: on a daily basis. Whatever that meant, just please, I
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: want good defensive pictures. Other than that, man, you were
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: on your own. I'm not a big believer in rules.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: I think integrity has no need. There's no need of rules.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: If you have integrity, you answer these questions to yourself.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: And one of my opening dialogues to all my players
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: always was, you know the difference between right or wrong.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: You don't have to wait for me to tell you that.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: You grew up with some great parents. I think we
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: all are born with this inate ability to determine what
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: is right and what is wrong. Choose right. That's exactly
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: what I tell my guys, so excuse me. The situation
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: with rob he had a choice there. He could have
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: chosen not to say anything at all. He could have
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: just taken what nick said after the game, called in
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: the office, he yelled at one another and then figured
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: it out after then. But he made up his mind
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: to do what he did. But I do respect what
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: he did Robbie. That is, he was honest with the press.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: He didn't have to tell him exactly what was said,
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: but he told him why Nicky wasn't playing. He didn't dissemble,
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: he didn't give it any execu you talk, and I
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: love that about him.
• 16:39
  Speaker 5: What would you tell Dave Roberts about handling Showhy now
• 16:42
  Speaker 5: that he's back pitching and hitting.
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: Is there anything?
• 16:45
  Speaker 5: Is there a difference in handling him as just a
• 16:47
  Speaker 5: hitter versus when he has to pitch and hit.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: The thing I did with him was we had a
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: conversation every night before the next day so after the
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: game's over, how you feeling? The big thing? He had
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: told me early on a show. We first determined that
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: we're going to do both things with him. In that
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: spring training, he was only concerned about his legs and
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: how his legs felt. So it was fair. It's a
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: fair point, I said. Okay, So every night e pay
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: is at that time as assistant, I would text Epay
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: or talk to e Pay and he would go to
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: show and we would say, okay, what do we got
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: for tomorrow? How are we feeling for tomorrow? Is there
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: anything you don't want to do tomorrow that kind of
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: a thing. Are you good? And that would be the conversation.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: So the only thing I would do. See, there's the
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: issue here. Don't think that you know. I mean, we
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: don't know. We've never done what show does? I did
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: it in little league maybe twice a week, right, never
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: did it every day on a big league level, you know,
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: played multiple positions, so nobody's ever done this. So to
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: think that you know, or to think that there's some
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: kind of algorithm that's going to determine what's going to
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: prevent him from getting injured, not true. So I would
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: just communicate with him nightly after the tonight's game we're
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: playing tomorrow day or whatever. Show what he got? He said,
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: let me, let me get to you in the morning,
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: get back to you in the morning, and then that's it.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go off of his converse because you
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: have to understand he is It's an overused term, but
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: he is the unicorn. Nobody's done what he's done before,
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: So you have to listen to him in this situation.
• 18:08
  Speaker 6: What kind of answer would he give you? Would it
• 18:10
  Speaker 6: just be like, yeah, yeah, I'm good to go, thumbs up?
• 18:13
  Speaker 6: Or is it when he when he get into it, like, hey,
• 18:15
  Speaker 6: my legs are really sore. I don't think I can
• 18:17
  Speaker 6: give you. I don't think I can give you stolen bases,
• 18:20
  Speaker 6: but I'd love to be in the lineup. You know
• 18:22
  Speaker 6: how How in depth would he give you exactly?
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: That's pretty much. That's pretty accurate right there. Normally he
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: would always be good show likes to play. He likes
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: to play. And if you remember, when we first did this,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: we didn't have the show hey rule, So when he pitched,
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: we'd played with the regular National League lineup at that time,
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: and then once we took him out of the game,
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: I put him in right field, the dach would come
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: out of the game and we would play that excuse
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: we play the right We took him out of the
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: game and had to move things round so it was
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: a nationally game. And then once I took him out
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: of the game, it's next to that bat. I'd have
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: to put a right field there, but but the pitcher
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: would be in the lineup. So that's how it began.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: So there was a little bit more involve I had
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: to be aware of how he felt taking him out
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: of the game, like six to in eighty five and
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: two thirds, whatever it was. Harry comes, when we're at bat,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: you feel good enough to well out the right field
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: right now play you know, play an out or two
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: and then come back and get your bat and then
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: be done. That was like the most difficult decision at
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: that particular point was how to utilize that. Otherwise, gosh,
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: he he would he would. I think he pitched the
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: first game of a double hitter and then played a
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: d h in the second game, and no problem. He's
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: just an incredible his whatever he does in his workout routine,
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: which is pretty private because you know, you don't see
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: a lot of him before the game. He's always doing something,
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: but he's incredibly strong, so I never I can't remember
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: me once or twice I might have like asked him
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: like strongly, because I really, come on, you got to
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: take a break at some point, and I think he
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: did and I can't remember specifically went, but it was
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: an easy conversation. He wants to play, You got to
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: watch him, but you gotta trust.
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: Him, Joe, So what would you do now? I mean,
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: he's almost thirty one, and there's been some surgeries right
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: the elbow again, shoulder, all of that. Of course, for
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: most baseball fans, we want to see him do this
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: hitch and hit for as long as possible because this
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: might be the only time we get to see it
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: for most of us in our lifetime. Would you try
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: to see if you can talk him into an extra
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: off day here and there, even from hitting, especially once
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: he's built up to five or six innings, or is
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: it still just all hey, you tell me how you're
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: feeling and what you want to do, Because I mean
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: the topic that our guys have brought up obviously they
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: haven't done both, but they're like, can it affect is
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: hitting in any way? It didn't in the past, but
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: ken it now surgeries and years later in his life.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Well, I think you could talk about it. I think again,
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: I always like to be proactive in front of the
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: situations like this, and so you would probably try to
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: create different potential scenarios that we might want to adjust
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: to as this thing is in progress. I mean, right now,
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: that was one ending the other day. He probably handled
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: that very very well. I think once we get to
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: the All Star break, I think they're going to rap
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: him up to about four or five innings by the
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: time he gets to the break in an effort to
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: get him to become more of a normal member of
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: the rotation. After that, I think when you get post
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: All Star break, that's when you may want to really
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: start checking in on things like this. But again, he
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: will tell you there's one thing about him, and that's
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: what you got to do. You just establish the trust
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: through conversation and the fact that he gets to know
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: you and and you know that you're being honest and
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: upfront with him. I think that's not.
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: Called for.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: Unlikely that maybe he may require a day off after
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: he pitches, and then who knows, they could even line
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: it up to the point where maybe there's a day
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: off after the day pitches. They can be very creative
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: with this in an effort to not miss any time
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: on the field. So there's you can look at this
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: so many different ways in regards to how you want
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: to get this done. And maybe the schedule just runs
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: for like two or three and then we might say, show,
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: we just need you to take a day here somewhere,
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: because there's no real built in break in the schedule,
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: So just just look at it. You always got to
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: have to get in advance of this kind of stuff,
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: And I've talked about this before. They're probably going to
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: look at the World Series postseason and work it backward
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: when we get right after the All Star break, and
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: then determine how many innings potentially he's going to pitch
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: and how comfortable they are with that. But knowing that
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: they have to be keep in mind next year, they're
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: going to want to have them scratched out to a
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: certain number so that we don't go through this same
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: routine next year of trying to figure out how many
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: innings we can pitch him.
• 22:35
  Speaker 5: So last one, before we let you go, you mentioned
• 22:37
  Speaker 5: communications and talks, and someone in the chat had a
• 22:41
  Speaker 5: great I think it was Mike g He had a
• 22:43
  Speaker 5: great He's a Cubs fan, so he wants to know
• 22:45
  Speaker 5: if you had such great communication, how come you couldn't
• 22:48
  Speaker 5: get John Lester to throw over to first base.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: Dude, we've tried. That was a big part of it.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: We h we did. We went, We had a special
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: sessions out on the half field that's low Park. Here's
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: what we did. Eventually, Okay, would bother John more than
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: anything throwing over to first space. Well, my final determination
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: was John, You're never gonna have to throw over to
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: the first space. This is what we're gonna do instead.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: What we did instead was John, you have a couple
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: of different things you can do. You could hold the
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: ball a little bit longer at that time, you can
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: step off John. You could quick pitch, or we could
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: pitch out. Furthermore, riz I wanted Rizz to dance back
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: and forth off the bag and back to try to
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: create doubt in the in the base runner's mind and
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: from home play, whether it was rossy or contrast. We
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: had really good throwers. I wanted a lot of back
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: pitch at first base because if they're in their first
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: base in any way shape or formed decides so maybe
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go there and says no, and he gets
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: in that nowhere's land. He knows we have really good
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: throwing catchers. Furthermore, when these runners used to get so
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: far off because they thought they could and they could,
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: they became uncomfortable. There have never been that far off
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: the bag and they were always regardless of they they
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: in the back of their mind they knew Johnny would
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: do it, But what if we just did a quick
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: step pitch up, He's going to be out also. So
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: I wanted to focus on the things that he can
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: do and felt comfortable with, as opposed to the one
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: thing he could not do it was uncomfortable with.
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: That's good stuff, Joe. This was great.
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: We always really enjoy it booking Joe the Pod with
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: Joe and Tom Berducci, who we love having on here
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: as well.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: It's really good stuff.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Joe.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: Thanks, good to see it.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: I appreciate it, gentlemen anytime. And I'm just playing a
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: lot of golf and growing my tomatoes. It's kind of fun.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: We love that. We love that.
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: That's what happens. You age, when you manage, and then
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: you go backwards. Actually, now, now Joe's getting young.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: I'm a teenagers dude. I'm I'm back to seventeen, eighteen
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: years old. It's awesome.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: I wear the shirt for you too today. Well you
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: know what this is.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I can see it now.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: Grateful that Expo shirt for you.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: Love it, brother, love it.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, got you, Joe.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: You guys keep it going, keep it going. Appreciate it.