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SMNTY Classics: Uncorking Women and Wine · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: I'm what kind of stuff I never told you production
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: of Iheartradium, and today I wanted to bring back a
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: classic that kristphin Caroline did about women who make wine.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: I was thinking about this because I told this story before.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: But my mom always, for pretty much any occasion, gets
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: me a bunch of local wines. Yeah, it's really sweet.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: So I got a bunch of Christmas and I know
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: that some of the wine makers from those wineries are women,
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: and I was just thinking about it. I kind of
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: joked with Samantha before this that I feel a little
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: weird were running this one because I know it's like
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: dry January for a lot of people. And if you're
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: doing that, more power to you. I hope it's going
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: well for you. But this was just something on my
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: mind as I was looking at the lineup of wines
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: that my mom got me. She also Samantha, you know
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: I don't like snacks. She got me in my stocking
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: this year. She got me Brahmen packets and Shasheto peppers
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: like dry tchishiedo peppers, and I was like, this is amazing,
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: you have one.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: He knows you. She knows you so well. That's beautiful.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Yes, so please enjoyed. It's classic episode.
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, welcome to the stuff Mom never told you from
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: how Stuff Folks not com.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline.
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: And today we are talking about viticulture and analogy.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Ooo. Those are fancy words. Yeah, we're just talking about wine.
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Viticulture the cultivation or culture of grapes. Analogy a
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: science that deals with wine and wine making.
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: And wine itself is considered quote our original alcoholic beverage,
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: dating back eight thousand years, according to the book Inventing
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: Wine by Paul Lucas.
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: It's also the only thing that they drink in a
• 2:17
  Speaker 4: Game of Thrones. I think I don't think I've ever
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: seen anyone drink water. I think they just drink wine.
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: Probably because the water is full of poison, full of
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: dragon poison.
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: This well, anyway, wine, you know, it's more than just
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: the boxed wine that I may or may not buy
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: on a regular basis. Wine is actually linked inextricably, according
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: to Ann B. Mattissar, with religious worship, revelry, camaraderie, and
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: upper class entitlement. And she says that it's often been
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: a beverage reserved for men of privilege.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: She writes in her book Women of Wine, The Rise
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: of Women in the Global Wine Industry, that women regardless
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: of social standing, were associated with wine excesses rather than
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: its benefits, and neebraated women were frequently linked to indiscriminate sexuality, promiscuity,
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: and adulteres. So, right from the get go in our
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: conversation about wine and women, it starts off on a.
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: Bit of a sexist foot. Yeah, Sally would not approve
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: of this. She would be like, oh, heavens, Sally, your mom, Sally,
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: My mom drinks quite her fair share of wine. We're
• 3:29
  Speaker 4: big wine drinkers in our family. I say we, but
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: I really mean my mom and her sisters.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: So wine would not be a stuff your mom never
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: told you. Right, Well, not.
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: That we've talked about it, but I learned from the best.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: Let's put it that way.
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: Well, Sally is among plenty of friends. In the United States.
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: Americans really love their wine. In fact, in twenty twelve,
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: three hundred and forty two million cases of wine were consumed,
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: which is a seven percent increase from five years ago.
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: So not only are we drinking a lot of wine.
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: We're drinking more wine than ever before in the United.
• 4:09
  Speaker 4: States, and by volume, we Americans consume more wine than
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: any other.
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: Nation actually, but not so surprisingly on a per capita basis.
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: The French, for instance, drink a lot more wine than
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: we do. They drink five bottles for everyone that we drink.
• 4:26
  Speaker 4: And also as a nation, we Americans are just as
• 4:29
  Speaker 4: likely to reach for wine as for beer, which is
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: actually a huge shift from twenty years ago.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: We're drinking a lot more wine now.
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And some think that the spike in our wine
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: consumption is due to two things. First of all, the recession,
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: because let's face it, tubuc chuck from Trader Joe's.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: Can get you a pre drunk on a dime.
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: And they also attribute it to changing preferences of millennials,
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: because because a twenty twelve Gallup poll found a thirty
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: point drop in beer preference among people under thirty, so
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: young'uns like you and I, Caroline are really enjoying wine
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: more interesting, I wonder, I wonder what's behind the drop
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: in beer, not just the rise in wine.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: But the drop in beer also. I mean, they also.
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: Attribute this rise in wine lovin to drinkers over fifty
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  Speaker 4: and women in particular.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, women love wine.
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: One of the reasons why we wanted to do this
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: episode on wine is because I feel like, at least
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: if you were to choose a type of alcoholic beverage
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: that women are going to go for, if they walk
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: up to an open bar, it's gonna be a glass
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: of wine, probably a glass of white wine, or maybe
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: a vodkatonic. But that's another episode. But women by eight
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: out of ten bottles of wine consumed at home, according
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: to the magazine Wine Business.
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and according to a gallop pole that you talked about,
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: fifty two percent of women prefer wine over beer. And
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: that's up from forty three percent twenty years ago.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: Now, looking at men.
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: Only twenty percent of men choose wine as their favorite
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: boozy beverage, but even that is up five percent from
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: twenty years ago.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: And to me, the fact that women comprise an overwhelming
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: majority of the wine buyers for the wine that we
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: have in our households and also wine drinkers. It stands
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: in contrast to that quote from Women and Wine about
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: the history long ago where women were associated only with
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: wine's excesses and as we'll see in the making of wine.
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: In the viticulture, women have often been relegated to the side,
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: only allowed to do certain smaller tasks, whereas the making
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: of wine has been more of a thing for men.
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: And yet today we are drinking more of it. But
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: maybe because of that colored history that we have with wine,
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: women are still considered a niche market.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of ways we are.
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: And that's interesting when I was reading all this stuff
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: about how we are this niche market. I mean, I
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: think it's obvious when you google anything about women and wine,
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: A lot of what you get is this really sappy advertising,
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: this slag women and wine and shoes and women and
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: wine and baking and women and wine and tools. I
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: don't know, but you know, like I said, me, growing up,
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: I was surrounded by female wine drinkers.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: My dad didn't drink wine.
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: So I've always thought of like wine as a more
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: feminine beverage.
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: And yet the industry is just now catching up to that.
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  Speaker 3: For instance, in two thousand and six, we have the
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: launch of Wine Adventure, which proclaims itself the first wine
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: magazine for women. Side note why there needs to be
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: a wine magazine for women?
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: I don't really understand, right, And that's kind of what
• 8:09
  Speaker 4: Slate writer Mike Steinberger was talking about in a two
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: thousand and five piece where he really seemed confused to
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: hear the news that wine wasn't already a happily co
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: ed party. And he said that to suggest that women
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: have a distinct set of grievances about how wine is
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: critiqued ignores the fact that quite a few men are
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: equally disaffected and often leads to that kind of patronizing,
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: saccharine journalism that most women and men rightly abore. And
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: he said that the wine market has a consumer gap,
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: not a gender gap. He said, it's not so much
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: that we need to like capture this niche market of
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: women or you know, older women, younger women. Whoever, it's
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: more that different consumers are looking for different things. Because
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: there's the whole thing about like men wanting to buy
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: wine according to their fancy pants ratings, whereas women are
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: maybe more inclined to buy wine that they want want
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: to share with their friends.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, experts and marketers have paid a lot of
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: attention to how men and women shop for wine, and
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: so typically they say that the way that women select
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: wine has a lot more to do with a food
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: that's gonna go with it, the setting and what the
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: bottle looks like, rather than wine credentials like vintage charts
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: and the acquisition process and ratings that they say that.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: Men are more drawn to.
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I will fully admit here in front of you
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: and everybody else that I love a good type face.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: On a bottle of wine.
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: I mean I tend to go for like Charras or
• 9:44
  Speaker 4: Sarrah like. But I think I've said this on the
• 9:46
  Speaker 4: podcast before. I can only drink red wine, Like if
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: I'm out, I can only have a glass. If I'm
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: at home, I have to be already in my pajama
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: sitting down because it will put me to sleep. But like,
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: there's this bottle of wine that has a like a
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: Luca door mask, a Lucha Libre mask on the cover.
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: Are the like it's an album on the front label,
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: and I just I love that. It's like getting a
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: happy meal toy as an adult.
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: Well, while your attraction to certain types of labels definitely
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: messhes with the research, Caroline, you are not of a
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: stereotype that women prefer light wines.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Women Supposedly a woman's wine.
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: Is a pino grigio, whereas a man's wine is a.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: Broad shouldered cabinet.
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: Oh, Sally would Sally would agree with these stereotypes. She
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: drinks a nice pino griege every night with ice cubes,
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: with ice cubes, Oh for sure.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: Nice.
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: Well that meshes very well. Caroline with this description in
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: wine business. As to what women want in wine wine
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: business says, the short answer is something balanced and drinkable, enjoyable,
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: and easy to deal with. Screw the unnecessary complexity.
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: Well, I found that piece to be kind of obnoxious.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: Well sure, because it sounds like, well, I'll just drink anything.
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: Well, then it also framed wine drinking in terms of
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: like peacekeeping and conflicts and things like that, which was
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: very strange and I thought, very pandering, And.
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: Well, maybe that's an example of the saccharine journalism that
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: that Slate writer was calling out, saying, why all these
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: metaphors with wine writing were not just talk about some grapes.
• 11:30
  Speaker 4: I know, I mean, yeah, there really is this movement
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: toward treating women wine drinkers. As you know, we're all
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: like part of this weird airhead brigade that doesn't care
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: about the wine itself, you know, or well, I mean,
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: I'm saying this is someone who buys wine according to labels,
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: but whatever, whatever, they're treating us all like, you know,
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: we only care about the name of the wine itself,
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: or like it's appealing to some like girly sex in
• 11:55
  Speaker 4: the city culture.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: Right, It's okay.
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: So what has happened here is that marketers have taken
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: the finding, the overwhelming finding, that women want, say, something
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: balanced and drinkable. They want ripe, fruit forward wines without
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: a lot of tannin and oak as.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, well, you know the way we're going to sell this.
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: Is we're going to almost inflate that to a chick
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: lit proportion because I feel like you walk through the
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: wine section at the grocery store and you could take
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: labels from these wines that are overtly marketed toward women
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: and slap them on a beach read yeah, and you
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: wouldn't know the difference because it's lots of pink, lots
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: of stilettos, ponytail silhouettes with names like Mommy Juice Made Housewife.
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: And then to me, the worst, which is this line
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: called B B E from Treasury War Line of States
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: it's targeting women twenty one to thirty four, so our demographic, Caroline,
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: this wine is for us, and their flavors are flirty,
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: just a pink muscato, bright a pinagregio, fresh an unoak
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: to chardonnay, and radiant a reasling, and then all of
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: the language describing it is like a page ripped out
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: of Sex and the City.
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: It's so funny because I've had Bright, but I wasn't
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: aware of any of this that we're just talking about, Like,
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: I wasn't aware that it was marketed to women, or
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: that it was supposed to be cutesy or anything like that.
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: I just thought, oh, well, it's just called this. I
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: don't think I realized.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: How was it?
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: Do you remember? It was whinish. It was very whiny,
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: tasted like wine.
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: Well, the fact that it was whiny and just tasted
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: like wine, you know, it didn't really have any.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: Distinctive flavor profiles.
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: It's what a lot of people would argue that it's
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: actually doing a disservice to women who like wine, because
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: a lot of these wines marketed to women are just plunk.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: It's not very good. It's hyper sweet and not high quality.
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, not just plank. Bloomberg writer Ellen McCoy says that
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: it's neutered commercial plank. So they're really trying to sell
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: you on those stiletto pictures more than they're trying to
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: sell you on.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: What's in the bottle.
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: Which you know, I've purchased wine before, like if I'm
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: going to someone's house and I just you know, I'm
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: not buying it because it's so fancy and I want
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: to give them an incredible wine to remember me by.
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: But like, you know, I went to go stay with
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: my aunt and Savannah one time, and she's the middle sister,
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: and so I bought her a bottle of middle Sister wine. Ah,
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: So like you know, it's like, well, it might not
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: be any good, or maybe it is.
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: But it's just but it showed that you were thinking
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: about her. It was more of a gift in that way.
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: Another facet of the more recent approach to wine marketing
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: toward women is how it's not just been a focus
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: on labels and the titling of things like middle sister,
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: et cetera, but also in how they're starting to pedal
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: wine specifically to working moms, as here's your mental health
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: break I just.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: Need a glass of one.
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: And I say it in that voice jokingly, but I
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: do understand the relaxation of having a glass of wine
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: after your work. I understand where that marketing is coming from,
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: but I don't know that it's saying, here, women, drink
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: all of this wine. It's gonna make all of the
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: gender wage gap and the frustration with the you know,
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: the imbalance of housework and childcare just magically go away
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: for the next forty five minutes.
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: Oh god, yeah, no, I have totally come home and
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: popped open my box of wine and poured myself a triple,
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: quadruple glass.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: But I mean, this is not a joke. This is serious.
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: There are UK health experts who recently noted that a
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: rise there was a rise in alcohol related deaths among
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: women in their thirties and forties, and it's linked to
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: this increase in wine consumption.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: So, in a way, that kind of marketing, persistent marketing,
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: could be doing us a health disservice in the long run,
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: saying you know what, it's wine, it's got those ioxidants.
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: It's going to give you a mental health break. Just
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: do it, Just drink it. It doesn't matter the quality.
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: Just drink all of this really sugary stuff and you'll
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: be fine. Although moderate consumption at a glass and a
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: half of wine per day has been linked to positive
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: health effects and women for things like preventing bone loss,
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: as we read over at MPR, but again it's all
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: about modern.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean I actually stopped. There was a period.
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: There was a period where I was going home and
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: like having a glass of red wine every night. Not
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: that that's like excessive or bad or terrible or anything
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: by any means.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: But it got to a point where I was like,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: why am I doing this.
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: I'm doing this because I've had like a string of
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: really stressful days at work or whatever. I just got
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: out of traffic or whatever, you know, and it's like, well,
• 17:23
  Speaker 4: maybe I should just try other relaxation methods like a bath,
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: like some yoga, or just lying on a couch even
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: for a minute when you get home.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: I just I wonder if the messages are being mixed
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: in terms of with alcoholism and wine. It seems like
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: it's easier for women to and I say this in
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: giant air quotes, get away with it, because oh we're
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: just having We're just having a glass of wine or
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: two glasses of wine or three glasses of wine, and
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: oh there's the bottle.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 17:56
  Speaker 5: And it's part of this like cultural idea of what
• 18:01
  Speaker 5: is acceptable and sophisticated and normal and feminine and female
• 18:06
  Speaker 5: when it comes to like drinking and relaxing, because if
• 18:10
  Speaker 5: somebody goes home every night and downs half a bottle
• 18:12
  Speaker 5: of vodka, you're like, oh, well you have a problem.
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: And if someone goes home and drinks a six pack.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: Of beer, it would say, oh, that's so unlady like,
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: why would you be doing that? Yeah, and you're going
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: to get a beer.
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: Good exactly, But there's no we don't hear about wine bellies,
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: you know. So that is something it's something that I
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: have started to keep in mind more for myself because
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: I've experienced the same thing as you, Carolina, getting into
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: those patterns of how easy it is to go home
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: have the wine. And while again in moderation, it's not
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: a bad thing, I'm uncomfortable when I realize that it's
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: so much a part.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: Of my routine. I'm almost reliant on it that I don't.
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: Like and often what you need and I mean, let's
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: not sound like a broken record here, but often what
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: you need is like a break when you're stressed out
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: like that, you need a break.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: Well.
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: I mean, you know, if I get home from work
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: and after I've been sitting in traffic or whatever, it's
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: just well not just as easy, but it's much healthier
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: to head down to the gym downstairs at my apartment
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: complex and get on you know, the stationary bike for
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: thirty minutes. That's the same kind of break, but I've
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: exercised instead of you know, downing a bunch like half
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: a bottle of wine exactly, and just as one final
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: side note, rather than just springing always for the two
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: buck chuck. One thing I am trying to get better
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: at is learning more about wine and learning how to
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: enjoy wine, because when you have a glass of really,
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: really really great wine, you are going to drink it
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: more slowly and you're going to savor it, whereas you
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: might if you're poured a glass of flirty, pink moscato.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: You're probably just gonna gulp it down because it might
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: not be so good.
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: But speaking of taste, getting back to this conversation on men,
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: women and wine, we've established the stereotype of women preferring
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: the lighter sweeter wines and men wanting something bolder and redder.
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: Do men and women taste wine differently? Are women just
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: drawn to wine because there's something in our palate working
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: differently than men's.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: It seems to be.
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: So. It seems to be that men and women do
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: taste differently. And I mean, one thing to look at
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: is that wines themselves are often described as masculine or
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: feminine in their weight and flavor.
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and for people who are deeply immersed in wine culture,
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: there is this idea that women do have a finer palette.
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: For instance, Matt Kramer of Wine Spectator told at age
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: that women have more taste buds than men, which makes
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: them inherently better tasters. And then in another article in
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: Wine Business, it says as women wine judges, we might
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: be unfairly harsh.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: We're quick to.
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: Dismiss any wine that comes out with sharp elbows, too
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: much tan and too much acid, or too much wood
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: and increasingly too much alcohol. So that seems to be
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: an example of how perhaps our tongues are a little
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: bit more sensitive to certain flavor profiles.
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: Right, and sensory psychologist Marcia Pelchat at the Mono Chemical
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: Census Center in Philadelphia backs up some of these taste differences.
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: She says that women have more acute senses of smell,
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: We flat out prefer less carbonation.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: And wine, and we tend to be more.
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: Sensitive to bitter flavors, and just like butterflies and hummingbirds,
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: prefer slightly sweeter ones.
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: But when Letty Tigue, who is a wine calmnist for
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: the Wall Street Journal, when she sought out an answer
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: to a scientific answer as to whether men and women
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: taste wine differently, and she spoke with a number of smalliers,
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: some of whom were husband and wife couples, to kind
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: of get that his and hers comparison. Her conclusion was
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: that when it comes to wine tasting, the palette seems
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: to be more a product of exposure and training rather.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: Than biological sex.
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: So while there might be some sensory differences in the
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: male versus a female tongue with the preference for sweeter wines,
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: for instance, I can understand how that exposure can change
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: your preference because I remember in my younger years, in
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: college days, of course, I wasn't being exposed to many
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: fine wines, and from the get go I would want
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: something more of like a sweeter reasling or a lot
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: of white wines. I hated Merleau. But now as I've
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: gotten and I've had more wine, I drink almost exclusively red.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: And I wanted to be a richer in case I
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: don't really like sweet all that much.
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: Anymore, right, Yeah, And I mean I think the same
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: could go for any type of thing you are training
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: yourself to and bibe. I mean, you know, it's the
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: same for beer. I never liked beer when I was younger,
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: and then when I went to college, not to like
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: completely give away to my parents when I started drinking,
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: but when I went away to college, you know, I'm
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: just drinking the free junk that's in the keg, and
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: you know, I hated it, and I would try to
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: drink like you know, Vodkatonics and.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: Stuff like that. Well, like, as I got older, I
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: really really.
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: Started to like better beer. And now I spend way
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: too much money on beer. And it's funny because I
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: dated this this well, this jerk who we were talking
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: about beers one time and he actually asked me, so,
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: what guy in your life introduced you to good beer?
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: So after he picked himself up off the ground, I
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: informed him that I just developed a palette for better
• 24:05
  Speaker 4: beer as I got older.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it does make such a difference.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: And I also don't want to seem like I'm trying
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: to gang up on white wines. I've had experiences too
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: of drinking a better pinogriggio and or a better chardonnay,
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: and it does make a difference in it, even though
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: that's not normally what I spring for tasting it, I
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: get it. It's delicious, Yeah, it's buttery, it's light, it's summer,
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: not all that, but it was still very refreshing. And
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: I mentioned that Letty T talked with Somalier's both male
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: and female. And the thing is is that women are
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: not only making strides in terms of consumption and the
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: wine industry catching up slowly but surely, and in kind
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: of roundabout ways to women liking and appreciating wine, maybe
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: in different ways than men do, but we are also
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: making strides in the actual production of wine. Although women
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: have been involved in viticulture for a long long.
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: Time, well, I mean women may have been involved in
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: viticulture for a long time, but it's not like we
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: were always permitted to do some of the heavy liftings.
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: So to speak, wine making itself has actually long been
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: gender segregated.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: Women have been not.
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: Only considered bad luck for the wine, but we've been
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: considered too chatty and inefficient and weak.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of.
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: Times women would not be allowed to harvest, crush, or
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: stomp the grapes for fear that our delicate physique would
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: mess things up.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: But we were allowed to pick and sort grapes.
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: But then when it came time to age the wine
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: in the cellar, ladies, you keep out because and I
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: tweeted this out when I this in the book Women
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: of Wine because I found it so hilarious. Some wineries,
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: even to this day, still ban women from being around
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: fermenting wine because of the long held menstrual myth that
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: women on their periods can turn wine to vinegar.
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: That's interesting because I feel like I am around a.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: Lot more wine on my period. I don't know about you.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: I have a feeling a lot of women can relate.
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: But that's not to say though, that there weren't a
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: number of early pioneers. We found an article over at
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: the Wine Institute just highlighting some women in the US
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: and specifically in California who were making wine and running
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: vineyards in the nineteenth century, such as in eighteen eighty
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: six we have thirty one year old Josephine Tykeson who
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: found it California Winery, which was pretty unheard of in
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: the day.
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and she was actually the first woman to do so.
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: Not to mention the youngest who did not note inherit
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: it from a family member like a husband or a father.
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, if you go over to Italy or France, for
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: those really old wine making cultures, the women who would
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: be involved in the family business, even if they were
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: next in line to inherit it. A lot of times
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: because of those outdated ideas about women really not being
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: up to snuff for making wine would often be pushed
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: to the side and running the vineyard. But gradually, over
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: time clearly that has changed. And even in the eighteen
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: nineties I thought this was pretty interesting, around ten percent
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: of California wine makers were women.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: So we headed west and started making wine. And in the.
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: Past fifty years there has been a lot of progress,
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: especially starting in the nineteen sixties, women really began emerging
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: as prominent winemakers, owning wineries and assuming management positions outside
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: of those family ties. Yeah.
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: In nineteen seventy three, we have Marianne Graff who becomes
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: the first American woman to graduate in enology from a university.
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: And moving forward up to the nineteen nineties, we see
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: the growth of women in the ultra premium luxury wine industry.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: That sounds fancy.
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: I'm imagining them in totalnecks and blazers with.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: The crests on them.
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: And don't forget like the elbow pad things. Oh yes,
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: some elbowpads. But in all seriousness.
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: In nineteen ninety eight, Diane Nurray became the first woman
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: chairman of the Wine Institute since it began in nineteen
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: thirty four. And the same year Napa Valley, Vintnor's and
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: Sonoma County Wineries Association also elected women board presidents for
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: the first time.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: And then in the year You're two thousand.
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: Me, You're two thousand, the first woman was admitted to
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: the world's oldest Bordeaux brotherhood, which is called the Gerade
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: of Saint Emilion. And that was actually a really big
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: deal because this brotherhood had been around for centuries as
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: a man only thing. Going back to what the author
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: of Women and Wine was talking about in terms of
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: wine being that long standing beverage of men of privilege,
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: and they would have these drinking groups kind of like
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: if we think about cigar clubs, where you know, men
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: go and like have cigars, an expensive Scotch and such,
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: and it would be the wine versions of that. And finally,
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: in two thousand a woman was admitted, Yeah, it's a
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: shame that.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: All that wine's going to turn to vinegar. Well, and
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: it's also a.
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: Shame that when she was interviewed about it, I don't
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: have her name in front of me, but when she
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: was interviewed about it and someone brought up feminism, she
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: was quick to dismiss it. She was put off at
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: the idea that it had anything to do with gender
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: equality whatsoever.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: So yeah, there's that.
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I mean nowadays, nowadays, in the twenty thirteen year,
• 30:18
  Speaker 4: some of our most prominent wine writers, importers, and winery
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: owners are women. One of those is Mary Ewing Mulligan,
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: who's the president of Manhattan's prestigious International Wine Center.
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: And in terms of taste making, smalliers are seeing more
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: and more women joining their ranks, possibly helped along by
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: those stereotypes about women having those finer palettes and also
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: just with women having more interest and opportunities getting in
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: there because.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: The smallier is I mean to talk about a niche occupation.
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: And Bloomberg reported earlier in twenty thirteen that of the
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: press Digitous Institute of Masters of Wine group in London,
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: there are now eighty seven women among the two hundred
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: and eighty seven worldwide masters living in twenty three countries,
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: and in both twenty eleven and twenty twelve there were
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: more new female Masters of Wine than male.
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: And nowadays more than forty percent of somalis or women,
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: Although it hasn't always been an easy climb. One may
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: of Pesquera, who's a wine director for several restaurants in
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: several states, says that it's basically taken women a generation
• 31:34
  Speaker 4: to work up through the ranks of somalis.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: Because they just face such bad attitudes. Yeah, she said,
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: many people used to think that I was just the hostess.
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: But a lot of people though, who are growing familiar
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: with women Smalia's working say that they actually prefer sometimes
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: women to be selecting and suggesting wines for their fine foods,
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: because they say that women tend to have a more
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: hospitable approach, which could actually help take some of the
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: snooty edge off of wine culture. Because I don't know
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: about you, Caroline, but it is rare that I would
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: find myself in a restaurant that would have a smallie
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: approach my table, at which point I would say, I'll
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: have the house red.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: No, I actually just had sort of an embarrassing moment
• 32:27
  Speaker 4: the other night.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: I was out at dinner, and you know, having.
• 32:29
  Speaker 4: The right Okay, obviously I'm not in a restaurant with
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: Asmalia either, but having the right server to kind of
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: walk you through, you know, if they know your preferences,
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: having the right person can make quite a difference.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: Because the other night, my boyfriend I had this waiter.
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: Who was so like spastic and clearly not really paying
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: attention to what we were saying.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: He didn't really care about us.
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: He had these other big tables that he was worried about,
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: and he like rushes over and he's like, well, you know,
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: did you want a glass of wine or.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: Something, or like a bottle?
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: And I was like, well, yeah, I was considering having
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: a glass. I mean he just rushed through the whole
• 33:00
  Speaker 4: thing and at the end, I mean I got this
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: wine that was just so so I had no idea
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: what I was drinking.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: And so it can be nice to have.
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: You know, a kind empathetic, sympathetic person walking you through
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: the wine list, right, because when you know more about
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: the wine, you appreciate it more. It probably pairs better
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: with the food, and it makes the entire experience.
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: More pleasant and worth the sixteen dollars plus that you're spending.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: For that tiny bit of liquid in that giant glass.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: I are these so giant?
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: I mean, I know why they are, but oh I
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: like the giant glass.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: I do too. I'm afraid I'm going to break them.
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: I do have a set of really really nice like
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: giant wine glasses that I do not pour the recommended
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: amount into filled on ups like the fish bowl fish
• 33:48
  Speaker 4: bowl glasses a hurricane sometimes you have fish bowl glass
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: kinds of weeks.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: It just happens.
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: So that's about it for our conversation on women and wine.
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: We've looked at wine from the drinking and sort of
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: taking it back to the making and the taste making
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: of it. So now we want to hear from women
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: wine drinkers out there and men wine drinkers too. Guys,
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: do you like a white wine as much as a
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: broad shouldered cabernet. I love that description for some reason,
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: should broad shouldered cabinet and thoughts as well on this
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: normalization of not just the drinking of wine, but the
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: drinking of wine to excess.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: And for Europeans listening.
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: Too, do we sound like a couple of wine fruits
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: sitting here because we're fretting a little bit over having.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: A glass a day?
• 34:45
  Speaker 4: Well, to be fair, I'm also calorie counting at the moment, so.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I sometimes I just I put wine with you
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: know water.
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: I'm just like, well, it's in its own calorie free category.
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: So with that, send us your thoughts. Mom Stuff at
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: Discovery dot com is where you can email us. You
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: can also message us on Facebook and tweet us at
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: Mom's Stuff podcast. And we've got a couple of messages
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: to share with you when we come right.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: Back from a quick break.
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: And now here's some letters.
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: So we got a couple of letters here in response
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: to our episode on women and Negotiation, which was our
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: kickoff to our special four part series on lean In
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: airing on Fridays, which you should really check out if
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: you haven't already. And this first letter is from Rihanna.
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: She writes, I took a lot of psychology classes in college,
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: and in one of them, the graduate assistant passed out
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: a photo copied chapter of Women Don't Ask. It was
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: so eye opening to me that I've kept the chapter
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: ever since and have tried to actively fight my urge
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: to avoid confrontation and negotiate even though it scares me.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: I have conflicting feelings on this, though.
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: Because as a millennial, I've heard constantly over the past
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: several years that I'm entitled, demanding, impatient, and ambitiously disloyal.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: So the thought that maybe I just expect more.
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: Than I deserve has kept me from negotiating as much
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: as I could, because I'm not sure I'm really worth
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: what I think I am.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: What do you think about that conflict?
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: Being a woman who, in perception and reality, probably doesn't
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: know how to ask for what she wants or deserves,
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: as well as being a millennial who's perceived as whiny
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: and demanding and unrealistic. How do we reconcile those two
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: facts or perceptions. I think that the way to reconcile
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: that is to still follow those four steps that we
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: outlined in the Negotiation podcast. On how to really understand
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: and evaluate your own worth and make the approach without
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: coming across as being too entitled or demanding.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: What do you write?
• 37:03
  Speaker 4: You can't you can't appear like you're just out for yourself.
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: You know, you have to express your worth not in
• 37:09
  Speaker 4: a dollar figure, but your worth in terms of what
• 37:12
  Speaker 4: you have contributed and what you can contribute over and above,
• 37:17
  Speaker 4: and then you can make it about the.
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: Dollar figure exactly.
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: I think that making the collaborative approach as we talked
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: about in the podcast will probably serve you doubly, not
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: just as a woman, but as a millennial woman.
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know what I mean, Like, I'm so
• 37:34
  Speaker 4: tired of this millennial stuff.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: Like it's, as you know, every older.
• 37:38
  Speaker 4: Generation thinks the generations below them are just idiots. So
• 37:42
  Speaker 4: you're already, i hate to say it, like fighting an
• 37:44
  Speaker 4: uphill battle as far as stereotypes go of this generation.
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: So all of that to say, I mean, I didn't
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: mean to sound like all negative and jumpy about it,
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: but you know, all of that to say, you kind
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: of even have to work a little bit harder at
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: the negotiation table to let them know that you are
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: there for them.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: You're there to make the company better.
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: You're there to do the best job that you possibly
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: can and really help them out with your impressive skill set,
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: you know, so they don't just think you're some college
• 38:16
  Speaker 4: kid coming to wind to them exactly.
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: So good luck negotiating, Rihanna, and thanks for writing in.
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: And I have a letter here from Kat.
• 38:24
  Speaker 4: She says, I'm twenty three years old and in the
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: second job of my career. With my first job right
• 38:29
  Speaker 4: after graduating from college, I didn't even try to negotiate
• 38:31
  Speaker 4: my salary. I wasn't particularly confident in my skills and
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: was only slightly knowledgeable thanks to my mom and information
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: from salary dot com about how much I should expect
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: to make. I pushed back a bit with my second
• 38:43
  Speaker 4: and current job, but was shut down almost immediately because
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: of my relatively little amount of experience. Within the first month,
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: I'd already gotten lots of feedback that I've been doing
• 38:52
  Speaker 4: such a great job and it's only been getting better.
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: I actually discussed this very topic with a coworker yesterday
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: and kind of regret not pushing back for more money,
• 39:00
  Speaker 4: especially given all the positive feedback I've been getting. My
• 39:03
  Speaker 4: coworker and I were discussing how long I should wait,
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: if at all, until I approach my lead for a
• 39:08
  Speaker 4: potential raise, how to go about doing it, et cetera.
• 39:11
  Speaker 4: Whenever I decide to pull the trigger on that deal,
• 39:13
  Speaker 4: I'll definitely be keeping the points you ladies made in mind,
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: which is awesome.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: Kat.
• 39:19
  Speaker 4: I hope you, I wish you the best of luck,
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: and I hope you keep us posted.
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and thanks to everyone who's been keeping us posted
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: with your emails. Mom Stuff at discovery dot com is
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: where you can send them, and also connecting with us
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: on Facebook and Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast.
• 39:34
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• 39:35
  Speaker 3: Us on Tumblr, stuff Moomnever Told You dot tumblr dot com,
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: as well as our wonderful Instagram. We are at stuff
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: Mom Never Told You And speaking of negotiation and lean in,
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: don't forget This Friday is the fourth and final chapter
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: in our series All about Boston is, So tune in
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: for that and tune in as well to YouTube, where
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: you can check us out.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: Four times a week.
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: YouTube dot com, slash stuff, Mom Never Told You, and
• 40:08
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• 40:14
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