Latest / Midweek Table / The Last Supper | John 16 | Dan Wootton, Mandy Wootton, Kyrsten Smelcer

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The Last Supper | John 16 | Dan Wootton, Mandy Wootton, Kyrsten Smelcer · Midweek Table

• 0:00
  Welcome to the Midweek Table.
• 0:05
  This is our Carbondale podcast where we take Sunday's message and talk about how it actually
• 0:09
  fits into real life.
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  Each week we sit down with a pastor who spoke on Sunday to hear what stood out, what got
• 0:14
  left out, and how we can live it out.
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  So pull up a seat to the table and let's dive in.
• 0:18
  Hi, it's so good to have you here with us today at the Midweek Table.
• 0:22
  My name is Mandy.
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  I'm here with Pastor Kirsten, our kids pastor.
• 0:27
  Very special guest on the podcast this week.
• 0:29
  I wouldn't consider it special, but okay.
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  The kids pastor is the only pastor that gets kicked out of most services.
• 0:35
  Well, yeah, that is true.
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  Everyone stays with the adults and every service we're like, and go away.
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  And leave now.
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  Like, I'm not even in trouble.
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  With the best intention, with the best love.
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  I would like to say that you're like the Pied Piper of our church.
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  It's so much fun to watch our kids leave the sanctuary after worshiping with their parents
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  and they follow you out the aisle.
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  It's just wonderful.
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  And they're so excited to go upstairs and learn about Jesus.
• 1:01
  Yes.
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  Okay, I do have a couple of kids pastor things I want to ask to start off.
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  But first we need to do our would you rather for the day.
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  Would you rather be able to rewind time 10 seconds or fast forward time 10 seconds anytime
• 1:15
  you want?
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  Would you rather be able to go back and relive anything for 10 seconds or would you rather
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  to skip ahead through anything you want to for 10 seconds?
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  I think ignorance is bliss.
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  Like if I know it's going to happen 10 seconds ahead of me, if it's something really good,
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  then I've already ruined the surprise.
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  And if it's something really bad, then I'm going to be like anxious to get there, you
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  know, like, like, like 10 step for it.
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  See, but then if you rewind 10 seconds, it's like, oh, I have that like, oh, I need a replay
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  of like what just happened.
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  That was my immediate reaction.
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  Yeah.
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  What if it was a really good thing?
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  And then you can just indefinitely press rewind and live it 10 seconds at a time over and
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  over and over and over again.
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  As for some with attention challenges, I would use it for the moments I had checked
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  out of something.
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  Oh no, I missed that.
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  I'm sitting here talking to my wife.
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  What did she just say?
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  It was apparently really important and I wasn't focused.
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  Why is she staring at me funny?
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  This is a big week for us at the church.
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  We're heading towards Easter Sunday on Sunday and it's a lot, it's a very special morning
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  for kids.
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  Yeah.
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  So you get dressed up a little nicer than normal and you got some other family members
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  that might be coming with you to church you don't normally come to.
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  Yeah.
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  Talk about Easter for our kids on Sunday.
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  Yeah.
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  So the kids will be in worship with us per usual and then we'll go upstairs and have
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  a just a fun time.
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  I'm kind of shorting my sermon to allow more conversation with the kids and allowing that.
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  And then after service, which is where all the excitement goes, is of course the Easter
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  egg hunt that every kid looks forward to.
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  Because I had a kid yesterday go, candy!
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  And I was like, and yeah, that checks out.
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  And so they're looking forward to that and we have prizes that they can select eggs that
• 3:02
  may have prizes in them to select.
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  That's a new level.
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  Can adults participate in the Easter egg hunt?
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  Unfortunately adults can't.
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  So we have a section in the egg hunt.
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  You have three days to go adopt the child so that you can be a part of the Easter egg
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  hunt.
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  You can have the candy you want.
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  You can have the prizes.
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  There's so many wrongs.
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  Don't do that.
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  Yeah.
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  But also, yeah.
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  No.
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  But it's going to be so much fun and very family oriented, which is what Easter Sunday
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  is about and getting to celebrate Jesus together as a family.
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  I had asked you yesterday about your sermon from yesterday.
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  And I'm thinking forward to Easter.
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  Like we have our Good Friday service on Friday night at seven.
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  Please make plans to be there.
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  It'll be a wonderful time of worship with the Lord and with God's people.
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  And so when I asked you about what you preached yesterday, it just was beautiful.
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  The topic that you landed on, because it helps kids to put that topic in their heart for
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  the rest of the week leading up to Easter.
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  Can you just briefly tell us what you talked about yesterday?
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  Yeah.
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  So I did a fun way of talking on the crucifixion and going into a series where we were looking
• 4:08
  at everything leading up to Easter Sunday.
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  And so I taught the Bible story of Jesus's crucifixion through Legos and then was able
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  to really pinpoint on how Jesus gave his life for us and what that looks like and how we're
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  able to live through that and how we can, as people know, that Jesus did this for us.
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  Even though we deserve to be on and hit that cross, he took our punishment for us and we're
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  able to have a relationship with him through that.
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  And so being able, through his love, that we're able to be with him.
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  Praise God.
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  That's so cool.
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  And as a father, I just find great joy in knowing that Legos are worshiping Jesus.
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  And I also see a fundraising opportunity.
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  Can we just repackage it and make your own Lego set?
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  We'll sell them for $1,000.
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  Great idea.
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  It's time for me to get some of my money back from Lego company.
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  I know.
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  You've invested so much into plastic.
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  It's time.
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  I should have bought stock in Lego like 20 years ago.
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  That every parent ever.
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  What a miss.
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  Hey, and then talk about the next Sunday.
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  We're doing a special follow-up Sunday for all the kids.
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  Not this week on Easter, but the week after Easter.
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  Yeah.
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  So on April 12th, we're doing a fun thing called Pajamas and Pancakes.
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  And so the kids can come and dress up in their favorite pajamas.
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  And we're going to be talking on how we can rest in Jesus and how we can then enjoy pancakes
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  and have breakfast together and just be in our pajamas and be comfy and cozy.
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  And so we're looking forward to a great Sunday morning all together.
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  Sunday after Easter.
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  Sunday after Easter.
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  It's happening during both services, upstairs and kids.
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  It's going to be such a fun time.
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  I think I feel led to be in kids ministry.
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  If you want to have a bunch of fun, contact me on coming up and enjoying so much fun with
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  those kids.
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  We are wrapping up a sermon series.
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  Actually, the final sermon of the series is going to be this Friday.
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  And so there won't be a podcast episode about it.
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  So if you're just on the podcast with us, this is the final week of our Last Supper
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  sermon series going from John chapter 13 to John chapter 17.
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  I just want to encourage you, if you've been walking through this series with us, or even
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  this is your first episode, this is a wonderful week for you to take, you could do it in 15
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  minutes, and read from John 13 to John chapter 17, just all the way straight through.
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  It's an incredible discourse of Christ.
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  It is his longest conversation that he has in a private place.
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  It's not one of the big public sermons.
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  It's just Jesus talking to his disciples.
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  And we spent on Sunday all of our time in John chapter 16, where Jesus is now in the
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  Garden of Gethsemane, and everything is about to happen really, really soon.
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  There's a phrase there, it's in a little while, that Jesus is going to be gone in a little
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  while, and he's going to be gone for a little while.
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  And we spent Sunday talking about time, and about our perception of time, and how Jesus
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  gives us the ability to tell time through tumultuous times.
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  And we used the three lenses of immediately, imminently, and ultimately, and that God wants
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  to give us great joy immediately, through his son, through salvation, that we can call
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  upon his name, imminently, through the Holy Spirit, that while we're walking through this
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  world, and we're going to face some really challenging things, and we might lose track
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  of time, that the Holy Spirit is that good gift to us that allows us to receive comfort
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  and counsel through all of the challenges of this earth, and then ultimately, with the
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  Father, that we can be with Jesus and with the Father together forever, and that that
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  is his plan for the ultimate joy that we'll experience in this life, and that knowing
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  those things, understanding a little bit of the timing of heaven, can be something that
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  continues to give us peace.
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  So it's podcast time, which means our first question of the day is, oh, it's actually
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  for me, am I first?
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  No, you're first, is what stood out?
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  So for both of you, what stood out to you about the sermon on Sunday?
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  Yeah, I think something that I've just been like eating, like mulching on in my heart,
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  meditating on, is that concept of time that you were saying.
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  And I do love how God is so unclear about the nature of time and who he is.
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  And this is really random, but I think a wonder that sat with me, listening to you preach,
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  is just like, our Bible is our story, right?
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  It's from the beginning of creation to revelation, and kind of what happens after revelation.
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  But what did God do before Genesis?
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  He's not bound by time.
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  And so I love your immediate, imminent, and ultimate, because it really puts in perspective
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  my finite life that I am caged in by time, but God holds it all together.
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  That really stood out to me.
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  Yeah.
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  And I think the joy part, where sometimes it's in those moments where your timing is
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  like, okay, what's going on?
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  And finding that joy in those moments of like, okay, God, you're right here with me, allowing
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  me to do all this, and those moments where we're able to rest in his joy through all
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  of it, and being able to go into that, and just talking on joy.
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  It's just that spiritual awareness, that we're listening to him, and that every day he is
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  our filter that we receive life through, and we just get out of the place we had stuck
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  in ourselves.
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  I love the opening story that I shared, I found this week, that was the too soon to
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  tell.
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  And that so often, we're just so quick to make judgments.
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  Today was a terrible day.
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  This person is a terrible person.
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  This is a terrible situation.
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  I hate my job.
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  And we jump to these really fast conclusions, and we're just missing out.
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  On those parts where you get the joy.
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  When you focus too much on the negatives, toward those little tiny moments of that joy,
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  you're like, it's just so tiny, but it's so big.
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  The negatives and the nows, of just the right now, of like, what am I getting right now?
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  Am I happy right now?
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  And missing out on the timeline of what God's trying to accomplish.
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  Yeah, and I do think that it's really prevalent in American culture, that instant gratification
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  is a part of how we live our daily lives.
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  And if we're not gratified immediately, then we feel negative about it.
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  It hurts.
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  It's hard.
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  Well, maybe I should say, I'm grumbly and complaining.
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  I don't need to put that on you guys.
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  And so we can get stuck in that.
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  But the immediate call to joy is Jesus.
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  Like in those moments where it's hard, and when it hurts, and when I'm grumbly, what
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  if I just started singing out loud, like, this is hard, praise the Lord.
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  And I, that was a really challenging thing to my heart yesterday, is finding Jesus and
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  the immediate hard things, because he is constant joy, whether things are going well or not
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  going well.
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  There was a family counselor I was listening to this week, and had the recommendation,
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  you think of all of our apps and stuff, and it was a recommendation specifically for children,
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  but feel free to take it or leave it, that was, do not let your children watch anything
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  that is less than 10 minutes long, right?
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  That like, get those settings, whether it's YouTube or a show or something, but don't
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  let them watch anything less than 10 minutes long, because of what that does to that immediate
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  gratification of I need it now, I need it now, I need it now.
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  And as a creative person, I think about my childhood, and so much of the creative work
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  that God did in my life was all through boredom.
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  It was all through having nothing to do and being stuck at home, or letting your mind
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  wander.
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  Letting your mind wander.
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  What if I did this?
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  And how would I do it?
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  Yes.
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  And not being allowed to have screens, and being out in the backyard, and just all of
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  those like creative things come from the space and timing that God's given to us, and we
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  just often are running from it.
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  Has there ever been a time in your life where it was a hard time, and God surprised you
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  with joy in the middle of it?
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  I know that's a really random question, we didn't talk about that before.
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  And I can go first, you know, like ask the question, give you time to think, but I went
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  through probably like my high school career, I felt really lonely at some point.
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  And it was about a year and a half of just heavy loneliness, depression as a teenager.
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  And the Lord kept bringing like songs to my heart.
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  And I can picture myself in my laundry room right now, and the song that I would be singing
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  on those days, that it wasn't like this vibrant joy that He would give me, but His calm, settled
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  joy sustained me through that really hard time.
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  And it ends up being one of the most formative times in my walk with Jesus, was during the
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  hard time, and His joy in the midst of it.
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  I still don't know, I'm still thinking.
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  I think we experienced this sometimes when we move somewhere, you know, like you moved
• 13:08
  to Springfield for four years for the Vanjie University, and how long have you been here now?
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  Almost, it'll be two years in November.
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  And going somewhere, you know, for us, like 10 years in Milwaukee was always a funny deal,
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  because in one sense, 10 years can feel like an entire lifetime of a birth, an adolescence,
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  an adulthood, a senior adulthood, and not to be negative, but also a passing away, right,
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  and grief.
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  So it could feel like the whole thing, and it could feel like, well, that was about 100
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  years right there, and then in another way, it can just feel like five minutes.
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  Like God sent us from Tulsa to Milwaukee, we were there for five minutes, we came back.
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  It's like opening a good book, and then you have all of these pages to read, and you think
• 13:52
  you're in this book forever, and then all of a sudden you finish your last page, and
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  you close the book, and you put it on a bookshelf.
• 13:58
  How did four years at Evangel feel like for you?
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  Did that feel long or short?
• 14:02
  I feel like it started out long, just because it was like, I was figuring it out, I was
• 14:07
  like, well, like my freshman year, like end of like fall semester, I was in my bedroom
• 14:13
  by myself, and I was like, I'm not going back.
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  And I went back, and I found the, like, the strongest friendships, and then it just helped
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  me get through to where the second semester of my freshman year into my sophomore, junior,
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  and senior, it was like the quickest years of my life, because it was just like, I had
• 14:31
  so much fun and enjoyed those times with friendships, and I grew a lot through all of that.
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  That's so good.
• 14:38
  That's really cool.
• 14:39
  Yeah.
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  Those challenging seasons, they're hard.
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  But trust God.
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  They're the best.
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  Yeah, you're the best.
• 14:44
  One of the questions we always ask is what got left out.
• 14:48
  I feel like I'm watching John walk away in this series, like, oh, but there's so much
• 14:53
  more to say.
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  Like, it's been six weeks, but there's so much to do.
• 14:56
  I'm excited about the sermon on Good Friday.
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  But like, one of the little things that has become a reminder to me going through this
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  series is the personality of John in the authorship of this book.
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  And one of the things that if you want to dig deep into the personality of John, go
• 15:14
  read some of his other writing, specifically, like First John and Second John.
• 15:20
  In First John, you're going to notice that John has a very cyclical way of speaking,
• 15:25
  where he touches on something, and then he goes somewhere else, and he comes back to
• 15:28
  it.
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  And he touched on something, he comes back to it.
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  He touched on something, he comes back to it.
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  And when you're listening to the Gospel of John, it's not a tape recorder.
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  You are listening to John retell what Jesus told him in person, maybe 50, 40 years earlier,
• 15:47
  right?
• 15:48
  Yeah.
• 15:49
  And even in the writing of Christ, you're still experiencing the personality of John
• 15:54
  as John's heart is telling you about Jesus, and what Jesus said, and what stood out to
• 16:01
  John, what John still is just electric in his memory 30, 40 years after Jesus said these
• 16:07
  words.
• 16:08
  And so there's something really beautiful to me about John's personality.
• 16:12
  And you see those same things you'll see in his writing in First John.
• 16:16
  In this discourse, in the Gospel of John, as Jesus says something, and then comes back
• 16:20
  to it, and then does something here, and comes back to it.
• 16:23
  There was one verse in particular in John chapter 16, which is just a bright spot, and
• 16:28
  I totally ignored it on Sunday.
• 16:30
  But it is John 16, 28, yes, I came from the Father into the world, and now I will leave
• 16:36
  the world and return to the Father.
• 16:38
  And there was a theologian I was studying this week who really said, he said, that is
• 16:43
  the entire Gospel in one verse.
• 16:45
  I'll say it again.
• 16:46
  Yes, I came from the Father into the world, and now I will leave the world and return
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  to the Father.
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  And he gave four words to describe it.
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  It's the incarnation that I went from the Father.
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  So I'm not from Earth, I'm from the Father.
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  So I am God in flesh.
• 17:02
  So I came from the Father, I went into the world, he used the word humiliation.
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  So then I lowered myself into the frailty of humanity, and not even just into the frailty
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  of humanity, the suffering of humanity.
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  The lowest of the lowest.
• 17:14
  That I fasted for 40 days, and I was sick in my body, and then I was bruised, and I
• 17:19
  was abused, and I was murdered, and so the humiliation of Christ.
• 17:23
  But then he says, then I came out of this world, the ascension, so then he resurrects
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  from the dead, he ascends into heaven, and then I went to be with my Father, which is
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  the glorification.
• 17:35
  So then I went in, I came down, I was from God, went in, I came out, and then I'm with
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  the Father, and there's the glorification of Christ.
• 17:44
  Which is a cycle in its own nature, right?
• 17:47
  And I think about the story of God, and the story of Christ, and it is a cyclical pattern,
• 17:52
  right?
• 17:53
  Like this pattern of redemption that, hey, God created things, and mankind fell, and
• 17:56
  then God made a way, and then Jesus came, and then, you know what I mean?
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  Just the joy of the word of God.
• 18:02
  Yes.
• 18:03
  You're like, oh, I could have done a whole sermon just on those two sentences right there,
• 18:06
  and I can't do it, because we're out of time, and it's Easter, and let's move on.
• 18:10
  But like, those are all the things, right?
• 18:12
  Like, we're still in Good Friday on, like, next Sunday.
• 18:16
  And that's the thing that was challenging about these chapters in John, in this series.
• 18:21
  It's like, he kind of says the same thing multiple times, of like, hey, I'm with you,
• 18:26
  and it's going to be really hard, but don't worry about it, because I'm going to send
• 18:29
  the Spirit, and it's going to be really hard, but I'm with you, and I'm going to spend my
• 18:33
  Spirit after I leave.
• 18:35
  Yes, I'm leaving, and I'm with you, and things are going to be really hard, and I'm going
• 18:38
  to send my Spirit.
• 18:39
  Okay, so I want to ask Kirsten a preaching question.
• 18:41
  So, like, I had a lot of joy sharing this sermon on Sunday, and it came in the process
• 18:47
  of writing it, discovering some new things in the Word, and then being able to share
• 18:51
  with people.
• 18:52
  From a kid's pastor perspective, what are the things that give you joy about preaching?
• 18:57
  Like, when it works well, how do you know that it's working well?
• 19:01
  How do I know?
• 19:02
  Well, like, this Sunday, I think is, like, the best example, is because as I'm explaining
• 19:07
  the story of, like, the crucifixion, and I'm going into those hard details, but are
• 19:12
  just so, like, pivotal to the story of just, like, well, that you can see them just drawing
• 19:19
  into it, and then being like, oh, wow.
• 19:23
  And so, it's like those moments where then they're asking questions, they're wanting
• 19:26
  to know more of just then saying, like, one of my points on Sunday was, like, Jesus took
• 19:30
  our place, and I had a kid go, how did Jesus take our place?
• 19:33
  And I was able to give an example, and it just was, like, easily of just being, like,
• 19:38
  you know, to a kid, it's like, well, my sibling did this, but my parents blame me for this.
• 19:42
  And it's like, but that's what Jesus did for us, was we did something that he never did,
• 19:47
  and he still took our place.
• 19:49
  And for that moment to be, like, for them to hear them go, oh, it's just those moments
• 19:55
  of them drawing into what you're saying, into knowing, like, this is what's happening, and
• 20:00
  this is how I can do it, and them drawing into the whole thing, the whole time, I was
• 20:04
  like, wow, they were into it, and understood the part of how much what Jesus did for us.
• 20:11
  That it wasn't just easy for him, like, it's not just a story about Jesus, like, he experienced
• 20:16
  injustice for a sibling to be blamed for someone else's, but allow themselves to be blamed.
• 20:23
  Like, a kid gets that, like, what?
• 20:25
  He did that for me?
• 20:26
  That's crazy.
• 20:28
  One of the things that me and Maddie talk about is going from the wow moment to the
• 20:31
  so what moment, right?
• 20:33
  The wow that, like, scripture's incredible, and that we see what Jesus did, where there's
• 20:37
  so many testimonies, miracles, and there's things that as we teach, we get that, like,
• 20:41
  wow, I can't believe that that was here, or that it was done, or that it was here for
• 20:45
  me.
• 20:46
  And then turning the wow moment into the so what, well then, so what, like, how does that
• 20:50
  affect my week?
• 20:51
  When do I change about all those things?
• 20:55
  What do you think those things look like for a kid?
• 20:57
  One of those moments, I think, is just, like, at the end, it was just like, okay, we're
• 21:01
  gonna thank Jesus for what he did for me, allowing me to just say, like, Jesus, thank
• 21:07
  you for washing away my sins, allowing you to forgive me, and showing that he forgave
• 21:13
  while on the cross, and in the midst of him in pain and struggling, he still says, like,
• 21:19
  Father, forgive them.
• 21:21
  And it's those moments of, like, it's hard, but when you can love, like, Jesus, and how
• 21:27
  the hardest times of when they were beating him and he still loved all those people, it's
• 21:32
  living like Jesus and loving people, even when it is the hardest thing to do, it's still
• 21:38
  allowing yourself to love others the way Jesus loved us.
• 21:42
  I think one of the things about our kids' ministry at Carbondale that is one of the
• 21:45
  greatest strengths is the prayer culture of our children, is that we got some kids that
• 21:50
  are prayer warriors, that know how to react when something goes wrong, they know what
• 21:56
  to do.
• 21:57
  Yeah, and I love walking through every once in a while and seeing that you're teaching
• 22:00
  them that, like, you create space for them at the altars and give them time to pray.
• 22:05
  Yeah.
• 22:06
  Okay, we got some Q&A to do today.
• 22:08
  It's our new segment that if you have any question you want us to address, you write
• 22:12
  it in the Facebook comments below.
• 22:14
  If you're not on Facebook, you have to go over there to leave a comment there, or, you
• 22:18
  know, if you got phone numbers, just text Pastor Matt.
• 22:20
  At 2 o'clock in the morning.
• 22:21
  At 2 o'clock in the morning, and let him know what to do.
• 22:25
  So here's one question we had online that was, have we gone to the extreme of only talking
• 22:29
  about heaven and the good things of God and neglecting preaching the reality of hell to
• 22:34
  this generation?
• 22:35
  Right?
• 22:36
  The balance of, if we do believe that there is a heaven, logically, it means there has
• 22:42
  to be another option.
• 22:44
  Is that logically, if I need Jesus to be saved, well, then I need Jesus to be saved
• 22:50
  from something, that there needs to be some, something else, otherwise there's nothing
• 22:56
  to be rescued from.
• 22:57
  And how do we balance the conversation of the awareness of both heaven and hell?
• 23:04
  Yeah.
• 23:05
  Jesus actually talks a lot more about heaven in the gospels.
• 23:11
  And so I think as a church, during the revival movements earlier in the 20th century, we
• 23:19
  probably focused more on fire and brimstone to bring people to the Lord, like God wants
• 23:23
  to save you from hell and eternal suffering and fires and all that stuff.
• 23:27
  And we swung all the way over to really focusing on hell, that we didn't preach heaven very
• 23:32
  much and living the godly life on earth.
• 23:36
  But now I think that we are in a season as a church that we do focus on heaven more and
• 23:41
  that we don't really talk about hell a whole lot.
• 23:44
  And so it kind of takes away the reality of hell, because Jesus does talk about hell,
• 23:49
  like it does exist.
• 23:51
  Can I give a slightly different diagnosis from what you just did?
• 23:54
  I don't know that I would say the difference is talking about heaven versus hell, as much
• 23:58
  as I see in preaching the difference between talking about now and eternity.
• 24:02
  But I would say that 20, 40 years ago in church, it was all about eternity.
• 24:09
  And so it was like a get out of here, and then you're going to get to heaven and everything
• 24:12
  will be fine.
• 24:13
  But there's not much to do here, or get out of here and you're going to go to hell, and
• 24:16
  so you need to not do that.
• 24:19
  And I would criticize more of modern preaching that we end up talking just about the now
• 24:25
  rather than the balance of all those things.
• 24:27
  Even in the thing we talked about in the sermon on Sunday, we talked about immediately, imminently
• 24:31
  and ultimately.
• 24:32
  I think hell is both immediate, imminent and ultimate as well.
• 24:36
  That the immediate hell of being disconnected from Christ right now, today, and the imminent
• 24:44
  destruction that comes from that on this earth, before your heart even stops beating, of how
• 24:49
  terrible a life is that is living in rebellion to God, and all the consequences of sin that
• 24:55
  come on us in this world, that is hell all by itself, not to mention hell ultimately
• 25:02
  of a permanent disconnection from God, of a permanent banishment from his presence.
• 25:09
  It's all those things.
• 25:10
  And so I appreciate the question, and I think that's the balance.
• 25:15
  Do you have kids ask you about things like that?
• 25:17
  No, not really.
• 25:18
  I think a lot of those kids understand the part of it, and I think more it's asking,
• 25:23
  well, who Satan is?
• 25:25
  And allow going into more of those conversations, because they know those words, and I think
• 25:31
  it's still something that is talked about, and it's that.
• 25:35
  So I don't get a lot of questions.
• 25:36
  It's more of just, I think it's more focusing for kids is on the now, and being like, well,
• 25:42
  having a relationship with Christ, and kind of building that foundation to where then
• 25:46
  as you get older, it is focusing more on the, well, the heaven and hell part, but trying
• 25:53
  to build a foundation of like, come, have a relationship with Jesus, and what that
• 25:57
  looks like for you to be able to live that out, and being able to grow in that.
• 26:02
  But I feel like a lot of my kids know the difference of heaven and hell.
• 26:07
  And so it's not a lot of explanation that goes into with it.
• 26:11
  It's interesting, too.
• 26:12
  I had had, this is a little bit of a tangent, but I got two minutes, I'm gonna do it.
• 26:16
  I had a really cool conversation with a Latino pastor, someone who is pastoring over an immigrant
• 26:21
  community, and talking about the difference between the way we approach, that I do think
• 26:27
  if you are in a middle, upper-class society, there's this starting point of like, you think
• 26:32
  you're fine.
• 26:33
  I need to tell you you're not fine first, and then I need to build you up.
• 26:37
  So you think you have everything under control.
• 26:38
  I need to tell you that you are a sinner who's on their way to hell, and you need to be rescued.
• 26:43
  So I gotta give you the problem first.
• 26:45
  And that in other situations, and I'm not saying this is not specifically to a specific
• 26:49
  economic class, it's not specific to any specific ethnicity, but you have people in
• 26:54
  this life who are already in sorrow and pain, who already are very aware of their insufficiency
• 27:03
  from the first day.
• 27:05
  And for them, you don't need...
• 27:08
  To say there's a problem, you need to say, hey, here's a solution.
• 27:11
  Yes, yes.
• 27:12
  They're living every hour aware of the problem.
• 27:15
  Another quick question here, I think, that came is, why does not feeling like you belong
• 27:21
  actually make sense for a Christian?
• 27:24
  That Mandy preached last week about not belonging.
• 27:28
  Can you read that one more time?
• 27:30
  Yeah.
• 27:31
  Yeah.
• 27:32
  How does...
• 27:33
  Why does not feeling like you belong actually make sense for a Christian?
• 27:38
  I think belonging brings a sense of comfort, and when we're comfortable, we let our guard
• 27:42
  down, and we can lose some of that zeal.
• 27:47
  Not passion, we can lose that zeal, like a sustaining passion to pursue God.
• 27:52
  And if we already find ourself in a place of not belonging, we're not going to give
• 27:57
  up.
• 27:58
  We're not losing anything, so it's like, well, might as well keep moving forward.
• 28:02
  I'm not going to disappoint anybody.
• 28:04
  I'm just going to follow Jesus anyway.
• 28:06
  So I do think that belonging is helpful, and I do think that belonging can create a soft
• 28:12
  pillow on a comfy couch and say, hey, lie down here and rest, you don't need to work
• 28:16
  very hard.
• 28:17
  Yeah.
• 28:18
  Yeah.
• 28:19
  Everything's fine and safe.
• 28:20
  Yeah.
• 28:21
  Yeah, I feel like having that sense of belonging is like, okay, I'm seen and I'm valued, where
• 28:27
  it's like, with that, with us having a relationship with Christ, He already does value us, so
• 28:33
  trying to find the things in other ways that we find our belonging in, it just doesn't
• 28:38
  bring that satisfaction of what Christ is for us.
• 28:43
  And so being able to allow us to find that belonging in Christ allows us to have that
• 28:48
  joy and have those fruits of the Spirit for us to live out and show others and being able
• 28:54
  to be like, come, you belong in the kingdom of God and being able to bring others into
• 29:00
  showing where you belong at and not finding it in the other things in our world.
• 29:05
  Yeah.
• 29:06
  That's so good.
• 29:07
  Yeah.
• 29:08
  Well, friends.
• 29:09
  It's that time.
• 29:10
  It's that time.
• 29:12
  Thank you for having me.
• 29:13
  We're looking forward to a great week here at the church.
• 29:14
  We hope you can join us, and if you're watching from a different state or something, go to
• 29:18
  church on Easter.
• 29:19
  Don't miss the resurrection Sunday.
• 29:20
  Yes, go worship Jesus.
• 29:21
  He rose from the dead for you, for the Lord.
• 29:24
  Yeah.
• 29:25
  I want to pray for you.
• 29:26
  Father, I thank you for this day.
• 29:27
  I pray that you would give us the joy we need today, and I pray that you would give us joy
• 29:30
  immediately, imminently, and ultimately.
• 29:33
  We thank you for your presence.
• 29:34
  We pray that you would just bless this week, all the family gatherings that are going on,
• 29:37
  all the prep work here at the church for getting ready to celebrate together.
• 29:42
  I pray that all of that, our attitude, the way we approach all these things would be
• 29:45
  pleasing to you, and that your name would just be known.
• 29:48
  Let your name be known here in Southwest Tulsa.
• 29:51
  Let your name be known in Sepulpa and Sand Springs and Glenpool and Jinx and Bixby, Lord.
• 29:56
  Let your name be known in Oklahoma, throughout the U.S., and to think of the global celebration
• 30:02
  of your resurrection we're going to have this Sunday.
• 30:05
  We praise you for that, that every tribe and tongue would know your name.
• 30:09
  We thank you.
• 30:10
  We praise you.
• 30:11
  Amen.
• 30:12
  Amen.
• 30:13
  Join us next week.
• 30:14
  See you soon.