Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Bombshell evidence! Did hubby use COVID-19 to cover wife’s MURDER?

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Bombshell evidence! Did hubby use COVID-19 to cover wife’s MURDER? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Hi guys, Nancy Grace. Here, at a time when we
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Speaker 1: com and download this. It's been highly researched and presented
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Speaker 1: for you for free. Goodbye, friend, keep the faith. How
1:40
Speaker 1: in the world does a beautiful young mom go missing,
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Speaker 1: neither sight nor sound, not hiding her hair of Gretchen
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Speaker 1: Anthony leaving behind a child. What happened to her? And
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Speaker 1: how in the world did COVID nineteen coronavirus minutes to
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Speaker 1: get into this Nario I, Nancy Grace, This is christ Stories,
2:09
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. What an all star panel
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Speaker 1: to break it down and put it back together again
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Speaker 1: to try to figure out the mystery surrounding the disappearance
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Speaker 1: of Gretchen Anthony with me defense attorney former prosecutor Darryl
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Speaker 1: Cohen from the Atlanta Jurisdiction. James Shelnutt twenty seven years
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Speaker 1: Metro major case and SWAT now lawyer Karen Smith out
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Speaker 1: of LA Forensics expert, lecturer, University Florida and host of
2:41
Speaker 1: Shattered Souls podcast. Ben Levitan Telecommunications expert joining me out
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Speaker 1: of Raleigh at bn levitan dot com. Doctor Bethany Marshall,
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Speaker 1: psychoanalyst to the stars. You can find her at doctor
2:53
Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall dot com. But first to Ray Kaputo, Lead
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Speaker 1: news anchor Orlando Morning News w DBO rate they for
3:00
Speaker 1: being with us. Let's start with you tell me about
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Speaker 1: since we don't know if she took off, we don't
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Speaker 1: know if she's kidnapped. We don't have a body tell
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Speaker 1: me about Gretchen Anthony's disappearance. When was it first noticed
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Speaker 1: she was gone, Yancy? This is a couple of weeks ago.
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Speaker 1: It's towards the end of March. Now, March tenth or
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Speaker 1: of party. March twentieth was when she was last seen. Now,
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Speaker 1: this where the story really starts, when a friend of hers,
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Speaker 1: a witness, starts getting these strange text messages on her
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Speaker 1: phone saying that she had checked into a hospital and
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Speaker 1: that she had coronavirus. So this is down in Jupiter, Florida.
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Speaker 1: It's a very posh section of South Order. Okay, wait, wait, wait,
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Speaker 1: hold on question right there, Jupiter Florida, Brett, look at
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Speaker 1: Jupiter Florida for me. Isn't that where Tiger King and
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Speaker 1: a lot of wealthy sports stars. I mean, I remember
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Speaker 1: it because I used to have a roommate in New
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Speaker 1: York that ultimately left New York and went to some
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Speaker 1: big spread down in Jeepiter. Then do you remember the
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Speaker 1: whole drama with Tiger King. That's when Jeepiter, Florida came
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Speaker 1: to the forefront. Isn't a bunch of rich what isn't
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Speaker 1: it a bunch of rich huge houses and enclays with
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Speaker 1: cul de sacs way down the streets. They can't really
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Speaker 1: get to them. Yeah, well, Nancy, if you pull it
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Speaker 1: up on a map, you can see Jupiter is is
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Speaker 1: a pretty big, you know town. I'm doing that right
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Speaker 1: now to see if you're actually telling them are these
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Speaker 1: million dollars homes? I mean, people who are off the
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Speaker 1: charts with wealth live in Jupiter, Florida, and there's a
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Speaker 1: lot of attracts, a lot of wealthy people. However, where
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Speaker 1: this happened was more inland. It was more of a
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Speaker 1: residential neighborhood. You know, these aren't these million dollars off
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Speaker 1: the chart home. So Gretchen Antony wasn't, you know, living
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Speaker 1: high on the Hawk. She was just a normal everyday
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Speaker 1: mom who was coming and going to work, just like
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Speaker 1: the rest of us. M jeepiter the Woods jeepiter is
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Speaker 1: Tiger Woods is flagship restaurant, and apparently he lives nearby there.
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Speaker 1: So you know why I am asking that to Daryl Cohen. Okay,
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Speaker 1: you're showing me is that where? Thank you for all
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Speaker 1: the pictures of him in his red shirt. But isn't
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Speaker 1: that where he lived when the big bust up between
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Speaker 1: Tiger Woods and his wife happened. See this isn't this true,
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Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen? Isn't this just the way the discussion goes
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Speaker 1: when we're preparing for cases at the District Attorney's office.
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Speaker 1: You go off on crazy tangents. But the community is
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Speaker 1: important because if she goes missing in a high crime area,
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Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, you think, okay, so there's drugs involved, she
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Speaker 1: was kidnapped, there's a home invasion. But when you're in
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Speaker 1: some wealthy enclave or the next door community, that's less
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Speaker 1: of a likelihood. Daryl Cohen, explain what I'm talking about, Well, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: in a high crime area where you have drugs going
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Speaker 1: back and forth, you have gangs, and you expect the gangs,
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Speaker 1: and you know the crime is going to happen. It's
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Speaker 1: just a quite which one where and how often in
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Speaker 1: a high end neighborhood it doesn't happen here? And that
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Speaker 1: I think is universal when some type of crime happens.
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Speaker 1: So the person who lives there, the male, the female
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Speaker 1: of the family, whatever it may be. Are you kidding
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Speaker 1: We've got a great neighborhood. It never happens here. Well well,
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Speaker 1: and actually they're right because statistically it's much less likely
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Speaker 1: to happen in a high end neighborhood, but it can
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Speaker 1: happen anywhere. That's what people don't understand. To doctor Bethany Marshall,
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Speaker 1: Psycholo's joining me out of Beverly Hills. I mean the
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Speaker 1: whole point that the reason I'm bringing this up is
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Speaker 1: when you're trying to identify a kidnapper or a killer,
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Speaker 1: you have to take a look at the environment, not
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Speaker 1: only the victim's background. But I can tell you this,
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Speaker 1: she wasn't part of a drug transaction out on the corner. Bethany.
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Speaker 1: I told you about the time brand new prosecutor I
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Speaker 1: kicked a cop out of court when I saw his
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Speaker 1: police report that said the defendant approached him a corner
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Speaker 1: with a glassing bag, because I thought, who would do that?
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Speaker 1: You expect me to believe that get out of here?
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Speaker 1: Well guess what about three weeks later, Daryl, You're gonna
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Speaker 1: love this because you were You had just left the
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Speaker 1: DA's office when this happened. About three weeks later, I
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Speaker 1: went out to investigate a case by myself. I pulled
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Speaker 1: up to that very community and guess what. I looked
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Speaker 1: over at the stop sign. A guy was gesticulating at me.
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Speaker 1: I looked over. He was holding up a glassie bag.
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Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, I just dismissed that case for no
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Speaker 1: good reason and reamed a cop out, and the cop
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Speaker 1: took a long time to make up to that cop
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Speaker 1: Let me tell you that, So, doctor Bethany Marshall, this
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Speaker 1: woman is scrubbed in sunshine. She is in this or
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Speaker 1: next to this wealthy enclave where tiger Woods and others live,
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Speaker 1: so that narrows our pool typically, but not always. Bethany
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Speaker 1: Nancy And have you seen pictures of her and her husband,
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Speaker 1: such a beautiful couple. She's blonde, gorgeous, she has a
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Speaker 1: twelve year old daughter. And I know I'm going to
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Speaker 1: sound like a broken record here, but given that it's
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Speaker 1: likely not the environment, a drug bust gone wrong, a
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Speaker 1: home invasion and crime in the neighborhood, I wonder, because
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Speaker 1: she is so beautiful in her life, somebody in her
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Speaker 1: life who's preoccupied with her, somebody who sees her, or
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Speaker 1: a stalk, or it could be anything that's right upset.
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Speaker 1: I hear somebody, Oh, okay, I think that's Darryl saying
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Speaker 1: somebody could have been obsessed with her because she is
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Speaker 1: really pretty. I mean she looks like a beauty queen.
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Speaker 1: Um to Ray Kamputer, lead news anchor Orlando Morning News
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Speaker 1: w DBO, Ray, what did she do for a living?
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Speaker 1: I think I've got Ray Kaputer, but maybe I lost him.
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Speaker 1: Let's see if we can get that back up. Guys
8:53
Speaker 1: on this panel, we're talking about Grutch and Anthony and
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Speaker 1: how she goes missing. We also know that coworkers first
9:02
Speaker 1: realize that something may be wrong. Anybody on our panel
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Speaker 1: know what her job is. How these coworkers may have
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Speaker 1: known that something was very wrong before these odd text
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Speaker 1: messages crop up. But hold on, let's talk about the
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Speaker 1: text messages to be in Levitan telecommunications expert Ben. When
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Speaker 1: not a phone call, but when a text message is sent,
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Speaker 1: can you ping the location? This is why this is
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Speaker 1: so crazy. Every time you send a text or receive
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Speaker 1: a text, the phone company keeps the record for ten
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Speaker 1: years as to the cell tower that you used when
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Speaker 1: you sent that text. She sent a text claiming that
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Speaker 1: she was in uh where that she was in the
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Speaker 1: hospital Palm Westler Coronavirus Palm West Hospitals, twenty four miles away.
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Speaker 1: If you pull up that text message at the one
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Speaker 1: company pulls up that text message and that text message
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Speaker 1: originated from a cell tower and Jupiter, you know something's wrong.
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Speaker 1: You're busted buried, she said. The second text message from Belgrade,
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Speaker 1: that's fifty miles away. Okay, wait a minute, wait a minute.
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Speaker 1: I want to soak in what you said at the
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Speaker 1: very beginning. You said that phone companies keep the location
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Speaker 1: of your text message for ten years. Would you say
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Speaker 1: ten years? Sometimes indefinite, It depends on the carrier, at
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Speaker 1: a minimum one year. But Nancy, what they keep track
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Speaker 1: of is a cell tower to which you were connected.
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Speaker 1: This is not a pinpoint location. And we'll talk about
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Speaker 1: pinpoint location in a minute, like you get for Uber
10:45
Speaker 1: and Lift and that sort of stuff. But the record
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Speaker 1: they keep says, when you sent this text or when
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Speaker 1: you receive this text, you are connected to this cell
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Speaker 1: tower on Main Street and Jupiter, and that gets you
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Speaker 1: down to an area of four square miles. So it's
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Speaker 1: not pinpoint, but it's certainly evidence that you know, if
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Speaker 1: someone else sent that text message and you or either
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Speaker 1: or if she sent that text message and it's a
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Speaker 1: lie and she's covering something up. So of course there's
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Speaker 1: a lot of red tape in getting ping location. Guys,
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Speaker 1: we are talking about the disappearance of a young mom
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Speaker 1: of a little girl. Her name is Gretchen Anthony, and
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Speaker 1: she goes missing near the very wealthy enclave there in Jupiter.
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Speaker 1: What happened, guys, take a listen to our friends at
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Speaker 1: CBS twelve This is News reporter al Pelfrey. Witness told
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Speaker 1: police she got a suspicious text message from Gretchen Anthony
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Speaker 1: stating she had the COVID nineteen virus and she was
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Speaker 1: at Jupiter Medical Center. Police did find her car there,
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Speaker 1: but no sign of Gretchen hospital parking lot. Surveillance video
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Speaker 1: shows a man leaving the car there and walking away.
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Speaker 1: Then a few days later, I got a ping on
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Speaker 1: Gretchen's cell phone in your Pensacola where a jeweler reported
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Speaker 1: a guy trying to sell a bag of women's jewelry.
12:05
Speaker 1: It's shocking, it's shocking. It's it's so disturbing. You don't
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Speaker 1: expect that in your neighborhood. Because I just keep thinking
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Speaker 1: about the little girl. According to a family friend, Gretchen
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Speaker 1: has a twelve year old daughter. Neighbor Susie Clement still
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Speaker 1: hopes Gretchen will be found alive. They're still hope. There's
12:24
Speaker 1: still hope. I guess, right, as long as they don't
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Speaker 1: find a body, it's like it's a possibility. Gretchen Anthony
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Speaker 1: fought for divorce in February, just one month before she disappeared.
12:48
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Let me go out to
12:54
Speaker 1: Ray Kaputo, joining US lead news anchor Orlando Morning News
12:57
Speaker 1: w DBO. Right, there's a twelve year old girl that
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Speaker 1: is now without a mother. What can you tell me
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Speaker 1: about someone a jeweler reporting a man trying to sell
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Speaker 1: a bag of women's jewelry, because that puts a whole
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Speaker 1: another light on her disappearance. Was someone was the jewelry Hers? Yeah,
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Speaker 1: it was hers, And you know it shows that whoever
13:23
Speaker 1: was getting rid of it either needed a lot of money,
13:24
Speaker 1: or maybe there was something symbolic in all this jewelry,
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Speaker 1: perhaps they were trying to get rid of any of that.
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Speaker 1: This raised the alarm for the person who was possibly
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Speaker 1: tempting to buy it, and they never ended up purchasing it.
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Speaker 1: So I mean, you can reveal. You know, that's very
13:39
Speaker 1: interesting because Daryl Cohen pawn shops. You know, when you
13:45
Speaker 1: can't find a witnessing, you can't crack a case. There's
13:47
Speaker 1: two places to go. One the counting jail because somebody
13:51
Speaker 1: knows something. Number Two the pawn shops because whenever you
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Speaker 1: want to get rid of something hot, I think somebody's
13:58
Speaker 1: trying to get in. Guys, tell me you're before you
14:00
Speaker 1: jump in. When you're trying to get rid of stolen items,
14:03
Speaker 1: you go straight to a pawn shop and usually they're
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Speaker 1: very heavily monitored Darryl Cohen. They have to be nancy
14:10
Speaker 1: because they're so regulated. And over the years, so many
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Speaker 1: cases have been cracked, broken, solved because of the pawn
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Speaker 1: shop that has that wonderful string to the perp. The
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Speaker 1: person who's trying to get rid of items, oftentimes jewelry,
14:28
Speaker 1: sometimes a gun. One never knows. But the pawn dunts
14:32
Speaker 1: are just perfect places. The look and you're right, the
14:36
Speaker 1: look they get a hairstyles, then we don't have those stow.
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Speaker 1: A witness calls police saying that her mother got a
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Speaker 1: text regrets and saying she was on a ventilator at
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Speaker 1: Palm's West hospital battling coronavirus. She specifically stated Palm's West Hospital. Okay,
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Speaker 1: if you are on a ventilator, doctor Bethanie Marshall, how
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Speaker 1: are you able to send texts? Or are you Nancy?
15:06
Speaker 1: My first thought when I read this story was if
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Speaker 1: she's on a ventilator, she is not sending texts. And
15:12
Speaker 1: just a quick comment about the pawn shop. Was the
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Speaker 1: person who was trying to sell the jewelry selling jewelry
15:19
Speaker 1: that she might have been wearing all on one day?
15:23
Speaker 1: Or was this a whole cash of jewelry that was
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Speaker 1: taken from a safe ooo or possibly taken from the house,
15:28
Speaker 1: because this would provide a huge clue into who might
15:32
Speaker 1: have something to do with her disappearance. Was it somebody
15:34
Speaker 1: who robbed her took advantage of her a crime opportunity,
15:38
Speaker 1: or was it somebody who was breaking into the house
15:41
Speaker 1: to try to get other goods? And were there other
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Speaker 1: items being sold at pawn shops? And is there anything
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Speaker 1: else missing from her house? You know what, Bethanie, I've
15:49
Speaker 1: got to patch you on the back for that. That's
15:50
Speaker 1: a very good observation because to James Shelnutt twenty seven
15:54
Speaker 1: years Metro Major case an swat Now lawyer. It makes
15:59
Speaker 1: a difference because if somebody had, I guess my fitbit
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Speaker 1: the children gave me, or my necklace I wear all
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Speaker 1: the time, or my bracelet I wear all the time,
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Speaker 1: that would indicate that somebody grabbed me and got my jewelry,
16:15
Speaker 1: as opposed to going into Gretchen Anthony's home and they
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Speaker 1: try to sell a whole bag full of jewelry. As
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Speaker 1: Bethany points out, that's very, very significant. James shelnutt oh,
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Speaker 1: I agree, And it can definitely as was mentioned, you know,
16:30
Speaker 1: it can definitely help you narrowed down who may have
16:33
Speaker 1: been involved in any particular crime that could have occurred.
16:36
Speaker 1: You know, one of the things that you look for
16:38
Speaker 1: is whether or not something is a robbery. Oftentimes, if
16:41
Speaker 1: something as a robbery, then that can indicate a different
16:43
Speaker 1: person than if there is some type of other familiar
16:47
Speaker 1: or domestic dispute going on. When you're talking about Paul
16:49
Speaker 1: Dodols and Raka Puto, lead a news anchor Orlando Morning
16:53
Speaker 1: News w DBO, let me ask you a very narrow question.
16:56
Speaker 1: At the time she Gretchen Anthony goes missing, does her
17:00
Speaker 1: car also go missing? Yeah, it does. Nancy, but it
17:05
Speaker 1: turns up not too long after people notice Grutching's gone.
17:09
Speaker 1: It turns up at the Jupiter Medical Center. Which wow, okay,
17:13
Speaker 1: wait a minute, that is new information. The car turns
17:17
Speaker 1: up at the Jupiter Medical Center. Interesting to ask you this.
17:24
Speaker 1: That's only three miles away from their home, so it'd
17:27
Speaker 1: be if she sent a message from Jubiter, you could
17:32
Speaker 1: probably not tell if it came from her home or
17:35
Speaker 1: from the hospital, So I wouldn't immediately be suspicious if
17:39
Speaker 1: she said she was there. You know. The other issue, though,
17:43
Speaker 1: is Daryl Cohen, when you were trying to get phone records,
17:48
Speaker 1: I'm sure as a prosecutor defense from the um scipene
17:50
Speaker 1: and phone records, they don't care if the person's missing.
17:55
Speaker 1: They don't care if there's a child at home. It
17:58
Speaker 1: still takes them ten days for them to process your
18:01
Speaker 1: subpoena Dicas Tacom and get the records. You basically have
18:05
Speaker 1: to get a court order to put a fire under
18:08
Speaker 1: the rear ends of phone companies. Would you agree or disagree? Darryl?
18:12
Speaker 1: I would agree one thousand percent, because all they care
18:15
Speaker 1: about is covering their proverbial rear end, and they don't
18:20
Speaker 1: want to provide any records because it's a very bureaucratic situation,
18:24
Speaker 1: and if you don't have the right subpoena signed by
18:27
Speaker 1: a judge, then you will never get them. And even
18:30
Speaker 1: oftentimes when that subpoena is there provided to the phone company,
18:34
Speaker 1: you still are the phone provider. You will still have
18:37
Speaker 1: a very difficult time in receiving those records in a
18:40
Speaker 1: timely fashion. Just almost never have You know, I don't
18:43
Speaker 1: understand that because I've been in the situation many times
18:47
Speaker 1: Daryl Cone, where I needed those phone records, and compare
18:50
Speaker 1: to this where the pings could possibly save her life
18:54
Speaker 1: and there's really no way. Well, I have seen it
18:58
Speaker 1: turned around in twenty four hours, but that took basically
19:01
Speaker 1: an act of Congress to get the phone company to
19:04
Speaker 1: do that. You know, Ben Levitan, you're the telecommunications expert.
19:08
Speaker 1: What's their problem with the phone company? You got understood
19:13
Speaker 1: the telephone business is competitive. If you found out that
19:16
Speaker 1: your cell phone carrier was very lax about privacy with
19:21
Speaker 1: your information, you'd probably go to another carriers. It really
19:25
Speaker 1: is an issue you do not want to be perceived
19:28
Speaker 1: as that. You know, it's to that's totally bass Awkwards.
19:32
Speaker 1: Ben Leviatan because for me, I would want the phone come,
19:35
Speaker 1: need to fork over the information immediately. If I my husband,
19:39
Speaker 1: my children, my mom, if any of us were missing,
19:41
Speaker 1: I'd want it right then. So I guess I'm looking
19:44
Speaker 1: at it in a different way, guys, But there is Yeah,
19:48
Speaker 1: there's an exegen process. If someone is like kidnapped and
19:52
Speaker 1: thrown in the back of a car, there is a
19:54
Speaker 1: process called exegen situation where the police continue immediately and
20:00
Speaker 1: do the paperwork later. Let me tell you something, Ben
20:03
Speaker 1: love Atna know you're talking about. Exigent circumstances comes from
20:06
Speaker 1: an old US Supreme Court case US versus Carol, which
20:09
Speaker 1: actually happened during the Moonshine era. Exigent circumstances. The cops
20:14
Speaker 1: were trying to get a car that was weighed down
20:17
Speaker 1: in the back of the trunk, and they thought it
20:18
Speaker 1: was moonshine and they needed a warrant, and they used
20:22
Speaker 1: exigent circumstances. That's how old that theory is. And you're
20:25
Speaker 1: absolutely right. I've just never seen it happen with any
20:28
Speaker 1: phone company. Where is Gretchen Anthony Crime Stories with Nancy Grace,
20:49
Speaker 1: Her car turns up as Ray Kabuto tells us at
20:52
Speaker 1: a Jeep dramatical center. She says she's in the hospital
20:56
Speaker 1: on a ventilator, so says her text. But the cops
21:00
Speaker 1: all the area hospitals and she's not there. Why with
21:05
Speaker 1: someone parker car at a hospital and then somebody gets
21:09
Speaker 1: this text. That's an awful lot of planning for a
21:13
Speaker 1: random kidnap or murder. But now as police begin to
21:17
Speaker 1: delve into her background, let's play that cut from Jackie.
21:21
Speaker 1: We don't know much about what was going on with
21:24
Speaker 1: this couple, but we know a little bit. We know
21:27
Speaker 1: that they recently filed for divorce, and that is usually
21:31
Speaker 1: the kind of thing that you know, it was perks
21:33
Speaker 1: the ears of investigating this that divorce or infidelity and
21:37
Speaker 1: jealousy are often the causes of, you know, these murders
21:43
Speaker 1: between couples or married couples. They were married in March
21:47
Speaker 1: of twenty fifteen in Nevada, and then they filed for
21:51
Speaker 1: divorce at the end of February, and apparently they had
21:53
Speaker 1: both signed the papers for the divorce petition sometime in January.
21:59
Speaker 1: The divorce remains open. But I would say that's actually
22:02
Speaker 1: moot right now because he's a widower. Yeah, whether he
22:07
Speaker 1: killed her or not? Yeah, or so we think he's
22:10
Speaker 1: a widower. Question out to you, Betthy Marshall. I'm going
22:15
Speaker 1: to circle back to you on the dynamics of a divorce.
22:19
Speaker 1: Apparently both of them had signed a divorce. Looks like
22:22
Speaker 1: they had a wedding out in Vegas in twenty fifteen.
22:26
Speaker 1: To Karen Smith, who has rejoined US out of LA
22:29
Speaker 1: Forensic expert lecturer, University Florida, host of Shattered Soul's podcast, Karen,
22:35
Speaker 1: Once that car was identified sitting outside the medical center,
22:41
Speaker 1: how do you process that and what do you look for?
22:44
Speaker 1: Pretty basic, Nancy, Listen, you have a car that's been
22:46
Speaker 1: apparently abandoned in a hospital. First thing I'm gonna do
22:49
Speaker 1: is I'm going to photograph that. I'm going to do
22:51
Speaker 1: some Layton Prince in DNA on the outside. Once you
22:54
Speaker 1: get inside, you're gonna look for any cans, bottles, coffee cups,
22:59
Speaker 1: things like that, perfect for fingerprints in DNA. You're looking
23:02
Speaker 1: for foreign substances other than Gretchen Anthony who may have
23:06
Speaker 1: been inside this car and drove it. Listen, technology is
23:09
Speaker 1: wonderful and it's on our side, so hopefully they may
23:12
Speaker 1: have found something foreign. To Gretchen. Inside that car, I
23:15
Speaker 1: would also look to see was the car seat rolled
23:17
Speaker 1: back to accommodated man versus a woman. I would also
23:21
Speaker 1: look for items and the trunk. I would look for
23:25
Speaker 1: a brand, a cadaver dog and a scent dog, two
23:28
Speaker 1: different kind of dogs to smell the car. We all
23:33
Speaker 1: remember Daryl Cohen the top Mom Casey Anthony case where
23:38
Speaker 1: air samples were actually taken out of the trunk and
23:42
Speaker 1: molecules within the air samples from the trunk showed decomposition.
23:48
Speaker 1: That's what a smell is, right, You're smelling something and
23:53
Speaker 1: particles of that thing still remaining the air, hence the smell.
23:58
Speaker 1: So I would bring out dogs to smell the car,
24:01
Speaker 1: cadaver dogs. I would check out the dirt on the tires.
24:06
Speaker 1: I would get the tire tread. How do I know
24:09
Speaker 1: the dirt on the tire systems straight out of her
24:11
Speaker 1: home yard or somewhere else that could be significant. Don't
24:15
Speaker 1: know if it would be or not, but I would
24:17
Speaker 1: get it. I would take the tire tread in case
24:21
Speaker 1: we needed to use it later. Of course, as Karen
24:25
Speaker 1: Smith said, fingerprints. But you also I would bring in
24:29
Speaker 1: the phosphorus light to look for blood droplets or spresolutely
24:38
Speaker 1: absolutely listen lemonol lemon of course, yes, I mean all
24:41
Speaker 1: the process you're you're talking about are absolutely relevant. And
24:45
Speaker 1: luminol is a chemi luminescent substance that detects blood where
24:50
Speaker 1: you can't see it with the naked eye. So we
24:52
Speaker 1: would use that. We would use color blood tests to
24:55
Speaker 1: test substances that may be consistent with blood inside there.
24:58
Speaker 1: All of those things you listen. You know another issue.
25:01
Speaker 1: A lot of people think that there are items you
25:03
Speaker 1: can't get a fingerprint off. For instance, let's just say, Brett,
25:07
Speaker 1: did you know this? You used piece of soap. Yes,
25:11
Speaker 1: it still may be moist, but you can take that
25:13
Speaker 1: piece of soap and you can put it in the
25:15
Speaker 1: fridge and let it cool and then dust it. For Prince,
25:19
Speaker 1: did you know that it's easy to get prints and
25:24
Speaker 1: even off a strange substances. Also, you know a great
25:27
Speaker 1: place to get Prince, James shell nut the visor the visor.
25:31
Speaker 1: A lot of times when people dust for prints in
25:34
Speaker 1: a car, they don't check the sun visor. And if
25:37
Speaker 1: the car had been stolen, I guarantee you the driver
25:41
Speaker 1: would pull down the visor to mask his or her face.
25:44
Speaker 1: And that's a great place to get prints. What about it,
25:48
Speaker 1: shell Nut, Oh, I agree with you one hundred percent.
25:50
Speaker 1: You know the thing about it, when you're talking about
25:52
Speaker 1: crime scenes like this or trying to identify people through
25:55
Speaker 1: forensic evidence, you know, people can do a very good
25:58
Speaker 1: job cleaning up, but it is hard to get everything.
26:03
Speaker 1: And there are so many things that we touch that
26:06
Speaker 1: we don't think about touching, that we don't remember touching.
26:09
Speaker 1: And it's just like what was mentioned a minute go.
26:10
Speaker 1: Of the luminol, it is next to impossible. When you
26:14
Speaker 1: have a lot of blood at any type of crime scene,
26:17
Speaker 1: it is almost impossible to get every bit of blood
26:20
Speaker 1: up so that agents like luminol or other agents don't
26:23
Speaker 1: identify the one. You know, another great thing to look for,
26:27
Speaker 1: shall not hair and fiber Absolutely, now here's the problem.
26:31
Speaker 1: Anybody that was rightfully in that car, the child, the
26:36
Speaker 1: soon to be ex husband, anybody, neighbors, coworkers, you might
26:41
Speaker 1: find evidence of them being in there, and then you've
26:44
Speaker 1: got to exclude that and see what else is left.
26:47
Speaker 1: So even a killer could have rightfully been in that car.
26:52
Speaker 1: But you know, regarding hair and fibers, you shed hair
26:58
Speaker 1: and fibers without even knowing it. You know, you get
27:02
Speaker 1: an h vacuum there, you know, explain what I'm talking
27:05
Speaker 1: about when I'm talking about that, Karen Smith, and how
27:07
Speaker 1: it works. An h vac We used to use them.
27:10
Speaker 1: They were clean too, with a clean filter. Was a
27:12
Speaker 1: small little vacuum cleaner, and the evidence would be sucked
27:15
Speaker 1: up into the vacuum cleaner and it would stop on
27:17
Speaker 1: this clean filter, and then we would turn the filter
27:19
Speaker 1: into the property room for the lab to go through
27:22
Speaker 1: it and sort through the harrits of fibers, even the
27:24
Speaker 1: soil samples, little mica and sand and whatever might be
27:27
Speaker 1: on the surface that you vacuum. That's how that works. Yeah,
27:31
Speaker 1: I mean it looks like ooh, a handheld Vac's what
27:36
Speaker 1: it looks like. But it's it's highly tuned, so it
27:41
Speaker 1: picks up every fiber and keeps it on a clean
27:44
Speaker 1: surface to use for id purposes at the crime lab. Guys,
27:49
Speaker 1: we're talking about the disappearance of this mom, this wife
27:53
Speaker 1: soon to be divorced. Doctor Bethany Marshall, tell me your
27:57
Speaker 1: analysis of what you heard regard both of them amicably
28:02
Speaker 1: signing the divorce papers. Well, I'm not sure that I
28:07
Speaker 1: would believe that what I hear in my consulting room
28:11
Speaker 1: and what couples tell the public are two entirely different things.
28:15
Speaker 1: I'm imagining the two of them sitting in my office
28:17
Speaker 1: and what I would be evaluating in terms of both
28:20
Speaker 1: of their mental health and what the separation meant. I
28:23
Speaker 1: would be wondering who initially wanted the divorce. I would
28:28
Speaker 1: be wondering if Gretchen had made any recent attempts to
28:32
Speaker 1: gain some independence from her husband, like starting any university course,
28:37
Speaker 1: making more friends, taking more time away from the house.
28:40
Speaker 1: I would wonder how the husband felt about losing control
28:45
Speaker 1: over the daughter, if he had some special relationship with
28:48
Speaker 1: the twelve year old. I would be very interested to
28:51
Speaker 1: know what the husband was saying to the community at
28:55
Speaker 1: large about this looming divorce. Was he talking in a
28:59
Speaker 1: positive way of out Gredgen. Was he was saying, you know,
29:01
Speaker 1: it is so sad, I'm so upset, but you know
29:04
Speaker 1: she has a great life ahead of her. I want
29:06
Speaker 1: the best for her and our daughter. Or is he
29:09
Speaker 1: devaluing her? Is he being derogatory? Is he putting her down?
29:13
Speaker 1: That would be a very important clue, Nancy. People in
29:16
Speaker 1: good mental health can distinguish between separation an autonomy which
29:21
Speaker 1: happens during the divorce, and rejection and abandonment, and when
29:25
Speaker 1: people get stuck. If the husband did and feelings of
29:28
Speaker 1: rejection and abandoned, then they become very putative. And one
29:32
Speaker 1: final thing I would have says, just from a forensic standpoint,
29:36
Speaker 1: is who is making the money? What did money mean?
29:39
Speaker 1: If she's leaving him, is she taking a good deal
29:42
Speaker 1: of money with her? Did he take out a life
29:44
Speaker 1: insurance policy? Did either of them have trust money that
29:49
Speaker 1: they were living off of, or money from other source
29:52
Speaker 1: that one or the other had become dependent upon in
29:55
Speaker 1: some way. But how couples talk about a divorce is
29:59
Speaker 1: very telling in terms of what's going to happen after
30:01
Speaker 1: the divorce. And Nancy, seventy four percent of women who
30:05
Speaker 1: are stalked are stalked by their own husbands before, during,
30:10
Speaker 1: and after a divorce. You know, Bethany, that's a lot
30:14
Speaker 1: to take in as police go door to door within
30:19
Speaker 1: her neighborhood. There in wealthy Jupiter, Florida, the focus of
30:25
Speaker 1: the missing person's investigation suddenly turns on a dime. Take
30:31
Speaker 1: a listen to our friend at CBS twelve. This is
30:33
Speaker 1: News reporter Al Peffley. Police say Gretchen Anthony was last
30:37
Speaker 1: seen here at her Jupiter home March twentieth. Police say
30:39
Speaker 1: they found blood inside the home, but so far there's
30:42
Speaker 1: no trace of Gretchen. It's a shock. I mean, it's
30:45
Speaker 1: a really quiet neighborhood here, a lot of families. Lafia
30:48
Speaker 1: Susie Clement lives with her family in the same Avoca
30:51
Speaker 1: neighborhood as Gretchen Anthony and she can't believe what she's
30:53
Speaker 1: been hearing about the case. And she's not the only one.
30:55
Speaker 1: This is very shocky. We're in a very safe, quiet
30:59
Speaker 1: name of and nothing like this ever happens here. According
31:04
Speaker 1: to a Jess Releast report, a neighbor heard a woman's
31:06
Speaker 1: blood curdling scream at about six in the morning March
31:08
Speaker 1: twenty first. It seemed to come from the Anthony's home.
31:11
Speaker 1: She also reportedly heard a woman yelling no, no, it hurts,
31:15
Speaker 1: and police found what appeared to be large bleach stains
31:18
Speaker 1: on the floor of the garage leading out to our
31:20
Speaker 1: the driveway. Even now you can see white stains on
31:22
Speaker 1: the cement by the garage door. Police also found red
31:25
Speaker 1: stained towels in the washing machine, broken glass, and bloodstains
31:29
Speaker 1: in the master bedroom. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A
31:48
Speaker 1: neighbor here is reportedly blood curdling screams coming from the home.
31:53
Speaker 1: I'm very curious if the neighbor called nine one one
31:58
Speaker 1: and reported that or just didn't nothing. And also, we're
32:01
Speaker 1: finding bleach stains on the floor of the garage leading
32:05
Speaker 1: to the driveway, towels in the washing machine, broken glass,
32:10
Speaker 1: and blood stains in the master bedroom. That's a lot,
32:15
Speaker 1: you know. Do you recall to Darryl Cohen when Lacy
32:21
Speaker 1: Peterson went missing, we find out her husband, now convicted
32:25
Speaker 1: of her murder, had suddenly turned into a neat neat
32:28
Speaker 1: nick and immediately upon announcing her disappearance, he suddenly did
32:34
Speaker 1: loads and loads of laundry and mopped the floor with
32:38
Speaker 1: a bleach. Do you remember that, Daryl Cohen, I found
32:42
Speaker 1: my husband mopping the floors with bleach. I definitely call
32:48
Speaker 1: nine one one right then. I remember Scott Peterson very well,
32:51
Speaker 1: who became very domesticated very quickly, and that helped in
32:57
Speaker 1: the investigation. Because tiger is regardless of whether they're in
33:02
Speaker 1: or landoor or not, they usually don't change Leopards don't
33:06
Speaker 1: lose their spots and so yes, Scott became very very domesticated,
33:11
Speaker 1: and that was very, very helpful when they finally arrested
33:14
Speaker 1: him and he was convicted. Guys, we are talking about
33:18
Speaker 1: someone who suddenly begins cleaning the house or basically a cleanup.
33:24
Speaker 1: I want to go through what is found. Could I
33:26
Speaker 1: have that document place, because that outlines all the evidence
33:28
Speaker 1: in the home. You know, we have bleached stains on
33:32
Speaker 1: the floor of the garage leading to the driveway, red
33:34
Speaker 1: stained towels in the washing machine. To doctor Bethany Marshall,
33:41
Speaker 1: do you remember the Travis Alexander Jodi Arias case where she,
33:46
Speaker 1: Jody Arius, put the bloody sheets and coincidentally her cell
33:51
Speaker 1: phone pictures in the washer. Nancy, you took the words
33:56
Speaker 1: right out of my mouth. I was just thinking about
33:59
Speaker 1: Jodi Arius. That's the first thing she did. She put
34:02
Speaker 1: the bloody sheets into the washing machine and lost her
34:05
Speaker 1: cell phone. At the same time, I was also thinking
34:07
Speaker 1: about several stories we've covered where children go missing and
34:11
Speaker 1: all of a sudden is a little tangential, but the
34:14
Speaker 1: baby pictures, the toys, everything belonging to the child is
34:19
Speaker 1: just thrown out in the trash, and it tells me that,
34:24
Speaker 1: you know, in the face of these kinds of crimes,
34:26
Speaker 1: behavioral evidence is so important. People do all kinds of
34:30
Speaker 1: crazy things to either cover up or to throw people
34:35
Speaker 1: off the trail. But you were talking about marital dynamics.
34:39
Speaker 1: I would want to know prior to this, who did
34:42
Speaker 1: the laundry, who scrubbed the floors, who cleaned the house,
34:48
Speaker 1: who took care of all the domestic chores. Was he
34:52
Speaker 1: the one who worked and she stayed home? If so,
34:54
Speaker 1: why is he scrubbing the floor with the leach. It's
34:57
Speaker 1: so suspicious. Straight out to Raycopudo, joining US lead news
35:02
Speaker 1: anchor Orlando Morning News WDBO, What all was found at
35:06
Speaker 1: the home? Raykopudo? What can you tell me? Yeah, there
35:09
Speaker 1: was cleaning solution and rags out looked like somebody had
35:12
Speaker 1: just cleaned the house. They brought a cadaver dog in
35:16
Speaker 1: and it started sniffing around and hit on some stuff
35:19
Speaker 1: there was in the garage. There was a mixture of
35:21
Speaker 1: blood and bleach, which suggested an attempt to clean up
35:24
Speaker 1: that crime scene. And then, of course, you know, later
35:27
Speaker 1: on we found Gretchen's car, but there was a lot
35:29
Speaker 1: of evidence. It showed that somebody tried to clean up
35:31
Speaker 1: the mess make it look like nothing happened. You know
35:33
Speaker 1: what's interesting to James shell Nutt, twenty seven years Metro
35:37
Speaker 1: major case and swatnew lawyer. A random killer doesn't clean
35:42
Speaker 1: up the scene. They kill for either money or a
35:47
Speaker 1: sex assault, to steal something, and then they leave. They
35:50
Speaker 1: get the hay out of there as quickly as they can.
35:52
Speaker 1: To take time to clean up means the killing is
35:58
Speaker 1: not random. No, you're exactly correct. When you start to
36:01
Speaker 1: clean up something. The reason that most people clean it
36:04
Speaker 1: up who have committed a murder like this is because
36:07
Speaker 1: you believe that there is some type of evidence left
36:10
Speaker 1: at that scene that may allow authorities to connect that
36:15
Speaker 1: murder to you. I'm wondering if that's why. But then
36:18
Speaker 1: we find out about some unusual behavior. I want you
36:23
Speaker 1: to go to your cut number three Brett. That would
36:27
Speaker 1: be our friends at WPBF twenty five news reporter Terry Parker.
36:33
Speaker 1: Police say David Anthony was approaching young girls approximately fifteen
36:37
Speaker 1: years old, pacing back and forth in sweating profusely. His
36:41
Speaker 1: truck's license plate was altered with black tape, which police
36:45
Speaker 1: say he blamed on his twelve year old stepdaughter. An
36:48
Speaker 1: officer says Anthony at first ignored his instructions to stay
36:51
Speaker 1: outside of his truck and had to hold him at
36:54
Speaker 1: gunpoint until backup arrived. Then, they say, Anthony lunged into
36:58
Speaker 1: his truck and repeatedly slammed or on the arm of
37:00
Speaker 1: the officer trying to drag him back out. A sergeant
37:03
Speaker 1: eventually subdued him with several strikes to the throat he
37:06
Speaker 1: was holding a blunt object. Anthony, a fitness instructor with
37:10
Speaker 1: a long criminal background of minor crimes, was released on
37:14
Speaker 1: bond and ordered not to leave Palm Beach County. Guys,
37:17
Speaker 1: we're talking about the disappearance of a young mom, Gretchen Anthony,
37:21
Speaker 1: and now we're hearing about extremely erratic behavior on the
37:25
Speaker 1: part of her husband just before she goes missing, weeks
37:29
Speaker 1: before Anthony goes missing, weeks before husband David Anthony, approaching
37:34
Speaker 1: young girls fifteen years old and pacing back and forth,
37:39
Speaker 1: sweating profusely changed the license plate tag on his truck
37:44
Speaker 1: by altering it with black tape. What do we know
37:47
Speaker 1: about that, Ray Kaputo? Because as I always say, when
37:51
Speaker 1: you don't you can't identify the perp. Look for the
37:55
Speaker 1: irrational behavior. That's the person. Well, we got somebody who
38:01
Speaker 1: just went through or is going through a big life event.
38:04
Speaker 1: People say divorces can be one of the hardest things
38:07
Speaker 1: you experienced, and we got that. Then we have this
38:09
Speaker 1: this bizarre behavior of him sweating, acting suspicious, and I
38:12
Speaker 1: think what's most alarming is that he is really not
38:15
Speaker 1: showing any fear of a law enforcement officer pulling a
38:18
Speaker 1: gun out. I mean, he seems like somebody who's just
38:20
Speaker 1: he's not with it. And then you stack this up
38:23
Speaker 1: with his rap sheet, the fact that people who knew
38:26
Speaker 1: him said he had issues. In fact, I was doing
38:28
Speaker 1: some research on social media and I found some people
38:30
Speaker 1: who knew him from from back in college who said
38:33
Speaker 1: he was bizarre back then. So you put all this
38:35
Speaker 1: together and you show it's a person not in the
38:37
Speaker 1: right mind. You mean, he had irratic behavior all the
38:40
Speaker 1: way back to college. That's what I've learned. Yes, guys,
38:45
Speaker 1: probably beyond that. What we know right now is that
38:49
Speaker 1: all of this has culminated and the arrest of Gretchen's husband.
38:56
Speaker 1: To you, Ray Kauto, has a body been of a
39:00
Speaker 1: Nancy The body has not been found, No nobody knows
39:03
Speaker 1: where it is. They're they're putting out they're putting out information,
39:07
Speaker 1: they're asking people if they've seen anything. But right now
39:10
Speaker 1: we don't know where Gretchen Anthony is. Wait as justice
39:13
Speaker 1: then falls. Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing off goodbye friend,