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Green and Gold Brothers Episode 14 · Green and Gold Brothers

0:04
SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to the Green and Gold Brothers Podcast, the place for all things packers related.
0:10
SPEAKER_01: You can find us on X at GRNGLD Bros, on Facebook at Green and Gold Brothers, and anywhere you get your favorite podcasts.
0:19
SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to the Green and Gold Brothers.
0:21
SPEAKER_00: I'm Zach.
0:21
SPEAKER_00: And I'm Cody.
0:22
SPEAKER_00: We are recording today's episode a few hours before the Milwaukee Brewers uh take on the Tampa Bay Rays and game three of the World Series.
0:31
SPEAKER_00: So just a quick shout out to the Brewers.
0:33
SPEAKER_00: Go Brewers.
0:34
SPEAKER_00: Hopefully they can make it 3-0 and be one step closer to bringing the World Series home.
0:40
SPEAKER_00: Sounds good to me.
0:41
SPEAKER_00: But we're here to talk about Green Bay.
0:44
SPEAKER_00: Green Bay Packers take a big loss to the Detroit Lions 20 to 17.
0:51
SPEAKER_00: Last minute field goal there.
0:53
SPEAKER_00: Ugly game in general.
0:54
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna get into that here shortly.
0:57
SPEAKER_00: I'm still very frustrated.
0:59
SPEAKER_00: We're recording this a day after the game, and still still hurts.
1:05
SPEAKER_00: Very frustrated, very confused, very just a lot of things.
1:09
SPEAKER_00: We lost to the Lions, kinda.
1:13
SPEAKER_00: It's really hard to pinpoint exactly who we lost to, but there were plenty of opportunities to win the game, and I would definitely say we lost to ourselves.
1:23
SPEAKER_01: We we beat ourselves.
1:25
SPEAKER_01: And not to take anything away from Detroit, that is a very good team.
1:33
SPEAKER_01: Definitely is a good, good football team on the other side, but we had multiple chances to not only win this one, but win it fairly comfortably, in my opinion.
1:45
SPEAKER_00: It felt like we were in a boxing match with one arm tied behind our back.
1:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:50
SPEAKER_00: At a disadvantage, penalties, so some self-inflicted, some still asking why it was a penalty, but missed kicks, drops again, poor offensive line play, poor defensive line play.
2:04
SPEAKER_00: Jared Goff's a guy where if you don't pressure him, he's gonna do exactly what he did.
2:08
SPEAKER_00: He's gonna drop back in the pocket and he's gonna strategically pick you apart, and he did that.
2:14
SPEAKER_01: To be fair to to Jonathan Gannon, uh it's kind of pick your poison.
2:18
SPEAKER_01: I mean, he is he's pretty lethal against a blitz, so if you can't get pressure with your four and you have to bring extra.
2:25
SPEAKER_01: I think they I only remember one or two times where they brought extra guys and it actually was effective.
2:31
SPEAKER_01: It either got him off the spot or was a good run blitz, but it was it was not good enough with just the down four.
2:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree with you.
2:41
SPEAKER_00: Per usual, we'll hopping injuries right away.
2:44
SPEAKER_00: Sean Ryan, Jacob Monk both went down starting offensive lineman, Sean Ryan or center, went down, I think, two plays into the game.
2:54
SPEAKER_00: It was a little later than that.
2:55
SPEAKER_01: He it was a couple drives, I think.
2:57
SPEAKER_00: Um sorry.
3:00
SPEAKER_01: No, I I I don't know exactly which drive it was, but it it was a little bit longer.
3:06
SPEAKER_01: It may have been in the first quarter, but it was definitely I don't think it was just a couple plays.
3:11
SPEAKER_00: To my defense, I didn't watch the game at my usual place.
3:14
SPEAKER_00: I was out in public, which I've been very open with Cody.
3:18
SPEAKER_00: I do not like watching Packer games out public because I miss things like this.
3:21
SPEAKER_00: So totally with you on that.
3:23
SPEAKER_01: Luckily, I was at home and to it wasn't any better.
3:26
SPEAKER_01: So uh but yeah, Sean Ryan got rolled up on.
3:30
SPEAKER_01: Uh looked like he was trying his best to stay in the game, but it just wasn't uh wasn't gonna be an option.
3:36
SPEAKER_01: Um I did see a report, it may have been from uh Domowski today, or I think it was a Packers uh beat writer that said it's looking like four to six for him.
3:46
SPEAKER_01: Uh they didn't make any move with him today, but I wouldn't be surprised maybe even after Carolina if he goes on short-term IR.
3:54
SPEAKER_01: And then Jacob Monk was uh was placed on IR today, and Mikai Becton was signed to the active roster to take his roster spot.
4:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what happens there.
4:06
SPEAKER_00: Uh just a very unfortunate situation where your starting center goes out.
4:12
SPEAKER_00: Now you have to replace him with a guy who has played center before, has experience at the position, but then he goes out.
4:19
SPEAKER_00: That was the two plays.
4:21
SPEAKER_00: Jagabunk only lasted two plays.
4:22
SPEAKER_00: That's what it was.
4:23
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
4:24
SPEAKER_00: And then um Devontae Wyatt, he he went out kind of early there.
4:29
SPEAKER_00: Uh it was second quarter everywhere.
4:31
SPEAKER_00: Right before half, because he went into the locker room early.
4:34
SPEAKER_00: He came back, finished the game.
4:35
SPEAKER_00: Matthew Golden also went out.
4:37
SPEAKER_00: I had read that they ran him through concussion protocol and he passed, so he did return to the game as well.
4:43
SPEAKER_01: When that happened, I kind of thought that that was gonna be the case because the way he got tackled, he kind of his face kind of bounced off the the turf, but he got up and then then they stopped it.
4:53
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, if he got checked out, he was all good.
4:56
SPEAKER_00: So as far as you know, we once again we dodged the season ending.
5:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there was a cart again, which is good, but close, I guess, with two offensive linemen going down.
5:08
SPEAKER_01: That does does kind of sting.
5:09
SPEAKER_01: Uh Ryan was playing okay.
5:12
SPEAKER_01: I mean decent enough, I would say.
5:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he he wasn't gonna win any awards, but he was serviceable.
5:17
SPEAKER_01: Uh Monk, maybe less of that, but still a body and a guy that has some experience playing in this offense, so could be a tougher guy to replace, potentially.
5:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I thought John Williams stepped in well for the two guys that got hurt, and we'll talk about him coming up here.
5:34
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to spoil anything.
5:37
SPEAKER_00: The run game was non-existent again for the seventh week in a row.
5:44
SPEAKER_01: At least in the first half, uh the second it was maybe serviceable.
5:48
SPEAKER_01: Uh Jacobs, I saw, did make a comment that in the first he felt very winded, but then after coming out after halftime, he kind of got back into the flow of things, and it did show he had a couple nice runs.
6:00
SPEAKER_01: I forget the numbers, but in the first half he had like seven yards, and then I think he had you know 26 after that.
6:06
SPEAKER_01: So not anything to write home about, but definitely improvement.
6:11
SPEAKER_00: It's something they can build on.
6:13
SPEAKER_00: I think I feel slightly confident having a guy back there like Jacobs, who has done this forever.
6:19
SPEAKER_01: It looked a lot better.
6:21
SPEAKER_01: He was way more decisive.
6:22
SPEAKER_01: Uh, he had one nice run off the right side that I feel like Monk probably would have, or Monk, excuse me, uh Lloyd would have tried to bounce it and maybe got a yard.
6:32
SPEAKER_01: Whereas Jacobs, you know, found the lane and cut it up for I think it was eight, maybe.
6:38
SPEAKER_00: And then just the same old gremlins that have been bothering us for weeks now.
6:43
SPEAKER_00: Missed kicks, drops, penalties, tons of pressures allowed as well.
6:49
SPEAKER_00: 26, I believe, was the final number.
6:52
SPEAKER_00: We allowed 26 pressures.
6:54
SPEAKER_00: Jordan Love still played very well.
6:57
SPEAKER_00: You had mentioned the completion percentage was still lower than you want to see it, but he was out there doing what he could.
7:03
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it really hard to it's really hard to you know constantly put drives together when you've got drops and all those pressures on him, but he still he rose to the occasion and I can't remember what he had for a final on passing yards, but 270.
7:21
SPEAKER_00: I think yeah, I think it was 274.
7:23
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
7:23
SPEAKER_01: Couple touchdowns.
7:25
SPEAKER_01: Um he did have the pick, but that was on third and long, and I think that was sort of uh it was sort of similar to the Christian Watson play against Chicago.
7:34
SPEAKER_01: It was kind of a, you know, let's just see what happens, and if it's picked, it's picked.
7:38
SPEAKER_01: It's just like a punt.
7:40
SPEAKER_00: I will say Detroit defensively did a really good job keeping everything in front of them.
7:45
SPEAKER_00: Yes, we didn't have many explosives at all.
7:47
SPEAKER_00: We did attempt to push the ball down the field, and that's something that's been working for us as of late.
7:53
SPEAKER_00: There were still a few 20 plus yard catches, but nothing big like 30, 40, and gotta give props to them for you know keeping, like I said, keeping the receivers in front of them and just not allowing anything over top.
8:09
SPEAKER_01: So I will say this.
8:12
SPEAKER_01: Uh, one of the things that I do or uh definitely have appreciated in the past about Jordan Love is his willingness to not give up on a guy after a drop or two.
8:24
SPEAKER_01: Uh, but part of me is kind of wondering if it's not time to implement the the Aaron Rodgers methodology there and with Bo Melton?
8:32
SPEAKER_01: All of them.
8:33
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
8:34
SPEAKER_01: With all of them.
8:34
SPEAKER_01: You drop the ball, I'm done throwing to you.
8:37
SPEAKER_01: Pretty soon we're not gonna have anybody to throw it to.
8:39
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's true, but I get it though.
8:42
SPEAKER_01: You know, I I totally get not wanting to shake a guy's confidence, but at the same time, like, it's gotta be better.
8:47
SPEAKER_01: This is getting old fast.
8:50
SPEAKER_00: I don't know how you fix it.
8:52
SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh these guys have been doing this forever.
8:55
SPEAKER_00: They're receivers, they do the the jugs machines at practice.
8:59
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I know they it's it's completely different practice to game time, but some of these drops are it it it's it's getting old.
9:08
SPEAKER_00: Yes, they're hitting you right in the hands.
9:09
SPEAKER_00: I I get the few that might get tipped before it gets to their hands, or you know, an awkward angle trying to keep your feet in bounds, you know, the focus catches.
9:19
SPEAKER_00: But a lot of these are I don't want to say easy pitch and catches, but they're routine.
9:24
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
9:24
SPEAKER_00: So the one with you there.
9:26
SPEAKER_01: The one that Jacobs dropped, I guess we can maybe contribute that to Rust a little bit.
9:33
SPEAKER_01: I mean, he took full responsibility for it, said the losses on him, he should have caught it.
9:38
SPEAKER_01: This is the one late in the game uh after the turnover in their own like 30-yard line, I think that were in perfect position to score and dropped it.
9:51
SPEAKER_01: Perfect throw from Jordan again and right in the hands and hits a turf.
9:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh I guess we'll just hop to some positives here instead of focusing on the negatives.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: The defense looked okay.
10:06
SPEAKER_00: We talked about, I mean, there were some explosives they gave up, but they only held them to 20 points.
10:15
SPEAKER_00: So I think that's something kind of positive to look at.
10:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they they were kind of getting shredded a little bit in the first half.
10:24
SPEAKER_01: I mean, they were were hitting their chunk plays, and it felt like if Goff had any kind of time, which he did most of the day, guys were were finding holes in the zone and and they were they were very open, and it was very frustrating because it felt like every time he wound up the throw, it was going to be a big play.
10:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
10:43
SPEAKER_01: And it kind of was.
10:45
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, definitely credit to to them for adjusting and bending but not breaking.
10:51
SPEAKER_01: I mean, 20 points to that offense, and three of them were at the very end of the game.
10:56
SPEAKER_01: That's that's a big win.
10:57
SPEAKER_01: There were a couple turnovers.
10:59
SPEAKER_01: They were maybe self-inflicted.
11:01
SPEAKER_01: One was a botch snap, the other one the same old lineman kind of kicked uh Gibbs, kicked the ball out of Gibbs' hands for a turnover right before the half.
11:12
SPEAKER_01: That could have swung the game right there, too.
11:14
SPEAKER_01: So it it was deceiving, maybe.
11:19
SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh they could have scored more points, obviously, but turnovers still are part of the game, and you make them happen and and they were able to get those and and stop them from scoring.
11:30
SPEAKER_00: So Yeah, I I know they were a lot of explosives, but like if you look at the stats, Amon Ross St.
11:36
SPEAKER_00: Brown had close to, if not over, 150 total yards.
11:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think he had 100 at halftime.
11:42
SPEAKER_00: Jameer Gibbs had close to, if not over 150.
11:45
SPEAKER_00: Jamison Williams had two touchdowns and close to 90, I believe, receiving yards.
11:51
SPEAKER_00: So that alone, right there.
11:53
SPEAKER_00: I mean, if you look at the stats and then tell me Detroit only scored 20, it's like wow, that's so that that's that's kind of what I meant when I said the defense looked okay.
12:02
SPEAKER_00: They they got off the field, you know, they did force Detroit.
12:05
SPEAKER_00: I don't think Detroit punted once, nice.
12:07
SPEAKER_00: Once okay, and it was a bomb.
12:09
SPEAKER_00: Yes, you're right.
12:10
SPEAKER_00: It was it was a bomb.
12:11
SPEAKER_00: But one punt, they did have a lot of a lot of good things towards the end there when they needed that stop on I think it was it was the stupid fourth fourth down that Dan Campbell went for it on when he was backed up to his own like the 28-yard lines, yeah.
12:28
SPEAKER_00: There were back-to-back plays there.
12:29
SPEAKER_00: I think DDS made a really nice play, and then Keyshawn Nixon on fourth down.
12:33
SPEAKER_00: Keyshawn just flew in the backfield there and made that tackle.
12:36
SPEAKER_00: That was something I had mentioned to you too.
12:38
SPEAKER_00: We were texting back and forth, and I was hoping, you know, come halftime, Jonathan Gannon would make the necessary adjustments.
12:45
SPEAKER_00: He did say that.
12:45
SPEAKER_00: I think he did.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: I think based on what they were doing in the first half, we definitely slowed him down a little bit.
12:53
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's it's frustrating to talk about, but it is what it is.
13:00
SPEAKER_00: Tucker Kraft, he's looking closer to the player that he was.
13:03
SPEAKER_00: He had a really nice touchdown there.
13:05
SPEAKER_00: I think he had a couple other catches throughout the game that kind of gave me some confidence that you know he's returning to form.
13:12
SPEAKER_00: Jordan Love, he's a baller, he's elite, he's gonna remain elite.
13:16
SPEAKER_00: Same things that we've been saying the last couple weeks.
13:19
SPEAKER_00: Um what was your take on Matt LaFleur's fourth down uh conversions?
13:25
SPEAKER_00: I know we went for it a handful of times.
13:26
SPEAKER_01: They were yeah, they we were like five or six or something like that.
13:29
SPEAKER_01: It was it was quite a few.
13:31
SPEAKER_01: Uh I I didn't hate really any of them.
13:33
SPEAKER_01: Um I know you had mentioned about taking the points to tie it, uh, the one in the first half that they ended up not getting.
13:40
SPEAKER_01: We probably would have missed it anyways.
13:41
SPEAKER_01: But the w the way it ended up, probably I was I was kind of with you on that.
13:47
SPEAKER_01: On the road uh that would have been to tie the game.
13:51
SPEAKER_01: Uh I can see the the argument for taking the points and and you know tying it up, but also I think that was more so respect for the Lions offense.
14:03
SPEAKER_01: I think Matt was anticipating maybe a bit of a shootout and a much higher scoring game.
14:10
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes when you get in those, you really there's no margin for error.
14:15
SPEAKER_01: So you have to you have to do what you think you're gonna execute well.
14:19
SPEAKER_01: And the the decision, I don't think, was bad.
14:22
SPEAKER_01: The play call ended up not working.
14:24
SPEAKER_01: I don't think that makes it a bad play call.
14:27
SPEAKER_01: It was it was creative.
14:29
SPEAKER_01: They threw a pass to Matthew Golden out of the backfield, which uh very creative.
14:34
SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh I guarantee they're gonna come back to that at some point this year and it's gonna hit big.
14:39
SPEAKER_01: But this this one didn't work.
14:42
SPEAKER_01: Uh I saw a couple people comment about if he waits a beat, Pierre Strong was coming across the middle wide open.
14:49
SPEAKER_01: That's not the read.
14:50
SPEAKER_01: That that is they could have had nobody on him, and that's not the read.
14:54
SPEAKER_01: The play was designed for Matthew Golden, and it just didn't get blocked up well enough, and and it failed.
14:59
SPEAKER_01: But I didn't I didn't hate the decision.
15:02
SPEAKER_01: I would have been okay with taking the points, but he did, I think it was either in his halftime interview or press conference I saw, he did admit that he probably should have took the points.
15:11
SPEAKER_01: So maybe a little second guessing there.
15:13
SPEAKER_01: Uh not necessarily second guessing, but you know, hindsight 2020 there.
15:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:18
SPEAKER_01: So I I think that's that's good on him, you know.
15:20
SPEAKER_01: In the past, I feel like we've kind of seen him say, well, nope, this was my decision and that's what I wanted to do, and we should have stuck with it.
15:27
SPEAKER_01: For him to be like, Well, yeah, we probably should have done something.
15:29
SPEAKER_01: I I can respect that.
15:31
SPEAKER_00: So I've just noticed a trend here, just me personally, just watching the games and um it's been more fourth down attempts so far this year.
15:41
SPEAKER_00: I think from a Packers perspective, I think they're going for it more on fourth down.
15:45
SPEAKER_00: I think they're favoring the analytics a little more rather than you know, just whether it was a gut feel before, oh, I think we're just gonna take the points.
15:53
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think it just seems like it.
15:56
SPEAKER_00: I guess I'd have I don't have the numbers on how many fourth downs they've gone for.
15:59
SPEAKER_00: And it's I guess it's a league-wide thing.
16:01
SPEAKER_00: It's been more sure, more prominent here the last couple years, where fourth and short, you know, we're gonna try the tush push, or we're gonna try our our form of the tush push, or whatever their their go-to golden call is to pick up a fourth and short.
16:14
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
16:15
SPEAKER_00: So I I like the aggressiveness.
16:17
SPEAKER_01: I do too, and that's what I was gonna just you know mention there too.
16:22
SPEAKER_01: If it is more, again, we don't have the numbers in front of us, but if it is more, I I do like it, and I think he is going a little bit more with his gut rather than oh well, you know, the numbers say this, and it's that's all fine and dandy, but at the end of the day, you also need to have a pulse on the situation, on you know how how your players are feeling when you look them in the eye and say, can we get this?
16:47
SPEAKER_01: And you know, they're yeah, let's go get it.
16:48
SPEAKER_01: Super confident?
16:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, then all right, let's let's go and let's get it and keep the drive going.
16:54
SPEAKER_01: And it's been nice.
16:56
SPEAKER_01: They're they were still, I think, 33% on third down, but they were I think they were over 75% on fourth down.
17:03
SPEAKER_01: So that's almost you know Madden-esque where oh I didn't get that, but I'm mad, so I'm gonna go for it again.
17:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you've been seeing that a lot lately.
17:11
SPEAKER_00: You see a lot with Ben Johnson, which started, you know, back when he was in Detroit.
17:15
SPEAKER_00: They know they're going for it on fourth down, so that third down, it might be a run, and you only pick up two three.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: Well, now you're looking at a a fourth and two instead of a fourth and five or six.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: Or even a shot play on the third and short, which I think building off of what you were saying, that it feels different.
17:32
SPEAKER_01: I think you're right on that because it seems like last year at least and in years past, they've they've loved that shot play on third down, third and short.
17:43
SPEAKER_01: And people are, oh, you know, why'd we do that?
17:46
SPEAKER_01: We threw deep.
17:47
SPEAKER_01: And you're either gonna get a catch or pass interference or incomplete, but then they still punted a lot.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: So they would take that shot.
17:55
SPEAKER_01: If they didn't get it, they'd punt.
17:56
SPEAKER_01: Now they're still taking that shot, and if they don't get it, well then they're coming back and they're running maybe a safer play, but a better play on fourth down.
18:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, which is fine.
18:05
SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you're gonna be effective and efficient at it, that doesn't bother me one bit.
18:10
SPEAKER_00: No, I I hope they keep it up.
18:12
SPEAKER_00: It's it's looked good for the most part.
18:14
SPEAKER_00: Detroit's one of those teams where you have to take advantage of every opportunity you get.
18:19
SPEAKER_00: I know we only punt it a few times as well, but I mean, you don't pick up those fourth downs, you know, and you're giving them the ball at midfield, or it just it seemed like there was a certain point yesterday where Detroit was doing almost anything that they wanted at any point.
18:36
SPEAKER_01: So when it comes to that, then absolutely you have to go for it on fourth act.
18:40
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
18:41
SPEAKER_01: Uh studs and duds.
18:43
SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, after we kind of talked about some of the good, I guess we can get back into some studs.
18:50
SPEAKER_00: Unless there's some other direction you want to go right now.
18:53
SPEAKER_00: I I know there's a big one that we both want to talk about coming up here, but I think we're gonna save a little time for that.
19:00
SPEAKER_00: It's on the duds list, and we're gonna spend quite a bit of time on it, I think.
19:03
SPEAKER_00: But we'll start with the studs.
19:05
SPEAKER_00: Keyshawn Nixon, we had mentioned last week, we were a little afraid putting him on the studs list because last time, earlier this season, we put him on the studs list.
19:13
SPEAKER_00: He popped came back with really poor performance.
19:17
SPEAKER_00: But I thought yesterday, you know, first half, the Lions were doing pretty much anything they wanted to and exposing Brandon Cise got exposed multiple times.
19:26
SPEAKER_00: Keyshawn Nixon, you know, they threw his way, they were throwing all over the place.
19:29
SPEAKER_00: But when it came time to get a stop, Keyshawn Nixon came in with a tackle for loss on a huge fourth down and gave us an opportunity to tie the game.
19:38
SPEAKER_00: Or actually, I think we took the lead.
19:41
SPEAKER_00: He got that stop and we kicked the field goal, I believe.
19:43
SPEAKER_01: No, that's when they missed the field goal.
19:45
SPEAKER_01: When he when he got the stop on fourth down, that was in their own territory, and then we missed.
19:50
SPEAKER_00: Either way, he came up with a stop when he needed to.
19:53
SPEAKER_00: He's not getting exposed like he had been.
19:57
SPEAKER_01: I think they were playing a lot of zone, so that kind of puts a little bit of uh an asterisk by what he did did in coverage.
20:03
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
20:04
SPEAKER_01: Uh, but he he had I know he had at least one pass breakup.
20:07
SPEAKER_01: There might have been a few.
20:09
SPEAKER_01: He made a couple open field tackles that were were really nice.
20:13
SPEAKER_01: That one on fourth down, you mentioned that he he just read it and and shot, and he was right.
20:19
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, hats off to to Keishon for taking our studs list from last week and and rejoining it again this week.
20:29
SPEAKER_01: Right.
20:30
SPEAKER_01: Uh I thought Lakin Tomlinson looked really good.
20:33
SPEAKER_01: Uh so did PFF.
20:35
SPEAKER_01: He had zero pressures allowed and was the highest graded offensive player.
20:39
SPEAKER_01: I believe his grade was elite.
20:41
SPEAKER_01: Um either PFF or uh yeah, that it was it was that one.
20:47
SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
20:47
SPEAKER_01: No, you're good.
20:48
SPEAKER_01: I was thinking of something else, but yeah, it he was uh great at elite, uh zero pressures allowed.
20:53
SPEAKER_01: They ran the ball behind him a little bit.
20:55
SPEAKER_01: Uh they have some good D tackles in Detroit, and I thought he played pretty well.
20:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I thought the move to uh so Aaron Banks was active finally, but they decided to go with Tomlinson over Banks, and I support that decision 100%.
21:09
SPEAKER_00: It needs to stay that way moving forward.
21:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was just gonna say that with how Tomlinson's been playing, and you know, he's been consistent, he's been out there the last three, four weeks.
21:21
SPEAKER_00: He needs to be out there unless he gets banged up.
21:23
SPEAKER_00: Aaron Banks, I'm sorry.
21:24
SPEAKER_00: We'll see what happens if you know they find another place for Aaron Banks.
21:28
SPEAKER_00: We'll see how these injuries keep piling up.
21:30
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I'm with you.
21:31
SPEAKER_00: Tomlinson's done everything and more.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: So absolutely.
21:35
SPEAKER_00: Uh another guy on the offensive line, John Williams.
21:37
SPEAKER_00: We had mentioned him earlier.
21:39
SPEAKER_00: Tipped the cap to him.
21:40
SPEAKER_00: Uh guy who probably wasn't planning on seeing the field at all and got thrust into action pretty early in the game.
21:48
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
21:49
SPEAKER_00: Uh came in at center, third string center.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: I guess he he can play all over the place, but um, they they worked him out at center.
21:57
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to say worked him out throughout uh training.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Camp.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: He was getting reps at center, and the reports were he's not a center.
22:05
SPEAKER_00: He was struggling with snaps.
22:06
SPEAKER_00: He was just struggling with mis cues, but they they like what they saw.
22:12
SPEAKER_00: He came in and played very well.
22:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thrown into the fire, and absolutely he he picked up pressures.
22:18
SPEAKER_01: He he did a really good job.
22:19
SPEAKER_01: There weren't any bad snaps that I can remember.
22:21
SPEAKER_01: No.
22:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, it's not gonna be perfect, obviously, but yeah, for for being put in in a very tough situation, I thought he did a really good job.
22:29
SPEAKER_00: There was one um clip I saw today, I think Mike Wall, former Packers offense lineman, he breaks down film.
22:36
SPEAKER_00: We've talked about him before.
22:37
SPEAKER_00: There are some things that John Williams has to work on as far as like schematically.
22:43
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
22:43
SPEAKER_00: I think he was communicating with, I think it was a left guard on one play, and I think he's supposed to pass that call off to the right guard.
22:52
SPEAKER_00: You're in a loud environment like Detroit, and they snapped the ball, and both guards went the complete opposite direction on the run play.
23:01
SPEAKER_00: So things that he needs to sharpen up, but I like I said, tipped the cap to him, came in, not expected to play, and I mean, he did he did fine.
23:11
SPEAKER_01: He's been a guy that we've talked about in the past.
23:14
SPEAKER_01: I've been excited about him.
23:15
SPEAKER_01: I think if he he gets an opportunity, he could be another late find by Goody on the offensive line.
23:22
SPEAKER_01: Not saying he's gonna turn into Bakhtiari or anything like that, but a solid piece you can rely on, potentially.
23:27
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
23:27
SPEAKER_01: Bakhtiari was a fifth round pick out of Colorado, I believe.
23:30
SPEAKER_01: John Williams was a seventh and basically had a redshirt year last year, and is finally getting a chance to play.
23:37
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, he's looked pretty solid.
23:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, last guy, Isaiah McDuffie.
23:43
SPEAKER_01: That's all you he had, I believe he had 11 tackles.
23:47
SPEAKER_01: Uh he he recovered the fumble right before half uh on the or no, not the one right before half, the one right after half.
23:54
SPEAKER_01: To start the second half, he recovered that one where everybody was kind of you know running the play still, except the quarterback and Isaiah McDuffie.
24:02
SPEAKER_01: He saw the ball on the ground and went and got it.
24:04
SPEAKER_01: But uh he he did a nice job in the run game.
24:07
SPEAKER_01: Um, like I said, he had 11 total tackles and just did he have the green dot?
24:13
SPEAKER_00: I don't remember.
24:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's hard to say.
24:16
SPEAKER_00: I know the Zaire Franklin thing kind of got thrown at us pretty late in the week last week.
24:21
SPEAKER_01: I forgot.
24:21
SPEAKER_01: I was gonna look at that and I forgot.
24:23
SPEAKER_01: Um I believe it would made make the most sense if he didn't.
24:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he was probably calling the shots on defensive.
24:30
SPEAKER_01: So I guess if if that was the case, then even more so deserving of this spot.
24:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:36
SPEAKER_00: Uh duds, not really looking forward to you want to get the big one out of the way first, or do we want to save the big one for last?
24:42
SPEAKER_00: Which one's the big one?
24:43
SPEAKER_00: The the refs, the referee.
24:45
SPEAKER_00: We'll save that one for last.
24:46
SPEAKER_00: Alright.
24:47
SPEAKER_00: So the D-line is um one of our duds.
24:50
SPEAKER_00: I thought just the amount of time Jared Goff had when we rushed four, we couldn't get anything.
24:57
SPEAKER_00: We couldn't sniff the quarterback.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: There might have been a time where we got I think there was only one pressure all day.
25:04
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I can't there can't have been just one pressure, I guess, because there were a couple pass inner.
25:09
SPEAKER_00: Was there a sack?
25:10
SPEAKER_00: We got one sack.
25:12
SPEAKER_00: I think Anthony Campbell might have been the only guy to have a pressure.
25:15
SPEAKER_00: I thought I heard that somewhere, but if I'm wrong, I'm sorry.
25:18
SPEAKER_00: But overall, uh defensive line, they weren't getting the pressure on the quarterback.
25:23
SPEAKER_00: Um just a very tough, tough thing to watch there.
25:26
SPEAKER_00: Because as of late, you know, we had been getting pressure with four, and like you had said earlier, Ganon does like to throw some blitzes in there, so I think that's where a lot of our pressures have probably come from so far this season.
25:38
SPEAKER_00: I thought LVN would uh maybe sh showed his presence a little bit.
25:44
SPEAKER_00: Um I just I'd like to see a little more out of our D-line going forward, especially against Jerry Goff and Jameer Gibbs.
25:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they they built that offensive line specifically for an immobile quarterback, and they earned their keep last yesterday.
26:00
SPEAKER_01: So that that was tough.
26:03
SPEAKER_01: Um on the flip side, Travis Glover.
26:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:07
SPEAKER_01: Another week of less than stellar.
26:10
SPEAKER_01: Uh it was a very nice experiment.
26:12
SPEAKER_01: Um, I do think there's something there potentially long term, but at the same time, we might need to rip the band-aid off.
26:21
SPEAKER_01: I think he gave up seven pressures himself.
26:24
SPEAKER_01: And they didn't really handle Elian McNeil very well, and just it's it's time.
26:31
SPEAKER_01: I mean, he thank you absolutely for what he did.
26:35
SPEAKER_01: You know, he he came in and he solidified that solidified that offensive line, or at least helped to do so for a couple weeks.
26:43
SPEAKER_01: But we got some guys that are probably more worthy waiting in the wings here.
26:48
SPEAKER_01: Uh Kevin Zeitler being inactive was maybe a little questionable.
26:53
SPEAKER_01: I mean, he he did have surgery in the offseason, and that that was why he was still a free agent.
26:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:58
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if that played into it at all or if he's still kind of learning the playbook.
27:03
SPEAKER_01: We mentioned this earlier that he's never been in this offense, which doesn't sound like a big deal, but it absolutely is to learn all of the terminology and and the protections and the checks, and I mean it's it's a lot.
27:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know last week's episode we were anticipating Zeitler finally getting getting the start.
27:23
SPEAKER_00: Um this week he was a healthy scratch, which was, like you said, kind of kind of puzzling almost, wondering what the heck's going on there.
27:31
SPEAKER_01: The explanation did make sense.
27:33
SPEAKER_01: Uh they they needed to have, was it three, three or four inactive offensive linemen, just the way the roster works, you only get 46 hats on game day, and you can't have 12 offensive linemen up because then you're short in other spots.
27:48
SPEAKER_01: So they needed to have people ready, or uh people inactive that maybe didn't necessarily need to be.
27:53
SPEAKER_01: Uh Banks was finally healthy, so that one was probably an easy one.
27:59
SPEAKER_01: John Williams is your your backup swing tackle.
28:02
SPEAKER_01: Thankfully, he was active because I don't know what they would have did at center if he wasn't.
28:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I don't even know what the the backup plan is there to because Jennings, who maybe is your emergency guy, was also a healthy scratch.
28:14
SPEAKER_01: He was inactive, so I get Zeitler maybe just because of a sheer numbers game, but otherwise it it was kind of tough.
28:25
SPEAKER_01: Um I do think there's a decent chance if he was healthy that he'll probably be up this week.
28:30
SPEAKER_01: Although with Beckton being in there now too, he's been with the team the same amount of time.
28:36
SPEAKER_01: I guess it'll be what they want to do.
28:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was just gonna mention, you know, this next week here with the injuries that happened on the offensive line.
28:46
SPEAKER_00: I mean, if Zeitler's gonna get the green light, it's gonna be this week, but then with them calling Beckton up, it kind of makes the the waters a little more muddy there.
28:56
SPEAKER_00: And I'm interested.
28:58
SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be a short week, quick turnaround, so we're not gonna really see or get many reports on practice.
29:04
SPEAKER_00: There's not gonna be practice.
29:06
SPEAKER_00: No.
29:06
SPEAKER_00: So nothing more than just the walkthrough probably tomorrow.
29:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's one to keep an eye on, and um I don't want to say this because I I don't know the situation, but there is a possibility.
29:16
SPEAKER_00: I know we were all banging the table for Kevin Zeitler.
29:19
SPEAKER_00: Guy's 36 years old, like you said, he had surgery in the offseason.
29:22
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to throw the word washed around, but he might he might be a shell of what he once was.
29:29
SPEAKER_00: For sure.
29:29
SPEAKER_00: He might just be an extra body that they added in hopes that you know he can step in and maybe he got into the building, and you know, there's a learning curve there, learning the playbook, learning the system.
29:41
SPEAKER_00: But being a 36-year-old guy, I mean, he just maybe he's struggling with certain things and they're just not comfortable putting him out there right now.
29:49
SPEAKER_01: It could be, you know, mind is able but body's not willing kind of thing, where not saying that he can't get there, but maybe he's just not not physically ready yet because that that's a tough position to to get back into football shape.
30:05
SPEAKER_01: And he was out for a long time.
30:07
SPEAKER_01: So, and especially being a little bit older takes your body longer to get going, longer to recover.
30:12
SPEAKER_01: You know, he's only been in the building for a month now.
30:15
SPEAKER_01: So I think we'll see him at some point this year.
30:18
SPEAKER_01: I do too.
30:18
SPEAKER_01: It's just a matter of when.
30:20
SPEAKER_01: I think his experience was worth the contract they gave him alone.
30:25
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
30:26
SPEAKER_01: Uh, even if it's you know just coaching from the sideline.
30:28
SPEAKER_01: I think that was a big thing.
30:30
SPEAKER_01: So we'll see what happens.
30:33
SPEAKER_01: Trey Smack.
30:36
SPEAKER_00: Big old big old dud.
30:38
SPEAKER_00: I'm getting so tired of talking about kickers.
30:43
SPEAKER_00: I think we're cursed, man, at this point.
30:45
SPEAKER_00: It's one after another after another after another.
30:49
SPEAKER_00: He was perfect in preseason.
30:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and we we gave him praise, rightfully so.
30:55
SPEAKER_00: The guy didn't miss, and he was he was banging through close to 60 yarders throughout preseason.
31:01
SPEAKER_00: Got a couple long ones on the year too, but he's got a leg.
31:05
SPEAKER_00: But I don't know.
31:07
SPEAKER_00: I have a really hard time defending him right now.
31:11
SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's getting ridiculous.
31:14
SPEAKER_00: The the two he missed yesterday were they were chip shots.
31:18
SPEAKER_01: It should have been gimme's for an NFL kicker.
31:20
SPEAKER_00: I think I saw something, and once again, I don't have the numbers in front of me.
31:24
SPEAKER_00: I think he's one of the only kickers to miss two within 35 this year.
31:30
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if it was 35.
31:32
SPEAKER_01: I forget what the number was.
31:34
SPEAKER_01: There's been three kicks missed.
31:35
SPEAKER_01: Maybe it was inside of 30.
31:37
SPEAKER_01: It could be 35, though.
31:38
SPEAKER_01: There's been three kicks missed, and he's got two of them.
31:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, seven, seven on the season so far.
31:43
SPEAKER_00: He's missed.
31:44
SPEAKER_00: Seven kicks.
31:45
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if that's counting the extra point that he missed a few weeks ago.
31:49
SPEAKER_00: I don't remember.
31:49
SPEAKER_00: Either way, seven's too many.
31:51
SPEAKER_00: Um, sounds like Matt LaFleur's gonna stick with them, but uh something's gotta get figured out here.
31:59
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it's a confidence thing.
32:00
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
32:01
SPEAKER_00: The first kick he missed.
32:03
SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna give him any leeway on it.
32:06
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it they got called for a delay of game right before he was about to kick it, so they move him back five yards.
32:11
SPEAKER_01: On that, quick before you continue, the delay of game was 100% on him.
32:16
SPEAKER_01: Oh, for sure.
32:17
SPEAKER_01: I rewatched it today.
32:19
SPEAKER_01: He is in his, you know, ready to kick position with six seconds on the play clock.
32:24
SPEAKER_01: That should be plenty of time.
32:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:26
SPEAKER_01: And Daniel Whalen is looking at him waiting to get the goal.
32:30
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
32:31
SPEAKER_01: He doesn't give it until double zeros.
32:33
SPEAKER_01: So he is ready to kick for six seconds and doesn't give the holder the go ahead to snap the ball.
32:38
SPEAKER_00: Even more of a reason to put him on the duds list.
32:40
SPEAKER_00: Like, come on, man.
32:42
SPEAKER_00: You're you have your routine, like you gotta get the ball snapped on time.
32:47
SPEAKER_01: It's a short week, so I doubt there's any kind of movement this week.
32:50
SPEAKER_01: I I hope we at the very least bring in some competition.
32:56
SPEAKER_01: Maybe if it's a practice squad guy or something, uh I I don't know.
33:00
SPEAKER_00: It's can't bring Brandon McManus back.
33:02
SPEAKER_01: He's got signed by the Rams, I believe.
33:06
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
33:07
SPEAKER_01: I I'm okay with that.
33:09
SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, I I hope there's something.
33:12
SPEAKER_01: I I don't know what that answer is yet.
33:14
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I doubt it's there's gonna be any kind of move made at long snapper.
33:19
SPEAKER_01: That was one of the things that I kind of wish Matt Orzik didn't have the contract that he does because we were talking about it at the end of preseason.
33:29
SPEAKER_01: We had a guy who was Yeah.
33:31
SPEAKER_01: He he did well, and the kicker was working.
33:34
SPEAKER_00: It might be time to bring that up.
33:35
SPEAKER_00: How uh don't mess, don't don't fix it if it isn't broken.
33:39
SPEAKER_00: Adam Itis was things were flowing with him.
33:42
SPEAKER_00: Smack had not missed a kick through preseason, and they switched up the long snapper, you know, at cut down time.
33:49
SPEAKER_00: And you know, to start the season, I think Smack was alright the first couple games.
33:52
SPEAKER_00: And then he hit the long one in Minnesota and I think Tampa is when it started.
33:56
SPEAKER_00: Atlanta.
33:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Atlanta he missed one.
33:59
SPEAKER_00: Tampa, I think he might have missed one or two.
34:02
SPEAKER_00: Chicago, he missed an extra point, I believe.
34:05
SPEAKER_00: And a field goal, I think.
34:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:07
SPEAKER_01: So maybe the it was two against Chicago because they left seven points off the board again.
34:12
SPEAKER_00: So it's just been getting worse as we go here.
34:14
SPEAKER_00: The one, the second kick he had, it was tipped, and originally watching it, you know, the first thought that goes through my head is like, oh, it's just it was the offensive line kind of left him left him out there to to to rot and kind of the the O-line screwed him over.
34:30
SPEAKER_00: But then, you know, thinking it through and seeing some some content online and listening to a few other takes on it.
34:39
SPEAKER_00: It was a 35 yarder.
34:41
SPEAKER_00: That's extra point.
34:42
SPEAKER_00: That's a that's a chip shot, it's a routine kick.
34:45
SPEAKER_00: And the trajectory that smack had on it was as if he was kicking a 60 yarder.
34:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the guy that that tipped it didn't even jump.
34:55
SPEAKER_01: He just stuck his hand up like they all do every time.
34:57
SPEAKER_00: So that's on Smack.
34:58
SPEAKER_00: You need to get that ball up more and just drive it through the upgrades.
35:03
SPEAKER_00: You're a kicker, you know what needs to be done.
35:05
SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna sit here and give kicking lessons because that is one thing I know nothing about.
35:08
SPEAKER_01: No.
35:09
SPEAKER_00: Those guys are phenomenal athletes.
35:11
SPEAKER_01: He's a good athlete.
35:12
SPEAKER_01: He's to to kick a ball is hard.
35:15
SPEAKER_01: Like it is not an easy thing to do.
35:17
SPEAKER_00: But I'm with you.
35:19
SPEAKER_00: I think something needs to happen after the short week here after Carolina.
35:23
SPEAKER_00: You gotta bring somebody in, maybe some competition, maybe a trade.
35:27
SPEAKER_00: I don't know what needs to be done, but I I'm sick of kickers just constantly killing us.
35:34
SPEAKER_01: I would be willing to make if if you could have a choice, I would be willing to have us make one trade and have it be for a kicker.
35:44
SPEAKER_01: And right now, I don't care what we would have to give up.
35:49
SPEAKER_01: If it's a guy, uh a vet that has done it, maybe maybe Jake Elliott is an option in Philly.
35:56
SPEAKER_01: They're going nowhere fast this year.
35:57
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what his contract looks like at all.
36:00
SPEAKER_01: Not that money would be an issue, but just how long he signed for.
36:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:04
SPEAKER_01: Um maybe Philly.
36:06
SPEAKER_01: Brandon Aubrey was brought up.
36:08
SPEAKER_01: I doubt that one would be done, but I guess stranger things have happened.
36:13
SPEAKER_01: It's a big game tonight between those two that could help sway either team's direction.
36:19
SPEAKER_00: Let's go get Minnesota's kicker.
36:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
36:21
SPEAKER_01: Give him a second round pick.
36:23
SPEAKER_01: I saw somebody actually mention that as far as Kick Sleep.
36:27
SPEAKER_01: It was it was just some random person, but I just threw that out there as a kickers to trade for, and Brandon Aubrey and Will Record were ones that were mentioned, and I literally rolled my eyes.
36:38
SPEAKER_01: Like I think I almost hurt myself rolling my eyes.
36:40
SPEAKER_01: Those teams are not giving those guys out.
36:42
SPEAKER_01: Even even if Minnesota was 0-6 and not 6-0, they're not trading their kicker to us.
36:48
SPEAKER_00: Especially now.
36:49
SPEAKER_00: Minnesota's 6-0.
36:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:51
SPEAKER_00: And a good kicker.
36:52
SPEAKER_00: A lot of their games, they've won because they have a kicker.
36:55
SPEAKER_00: They're not blowing teams out on offense.
36:58
SPEAKER_00: It's strictly get down into the red zone, your drive stalls, you get a guaranteed three points.
37:03
SPEAKER_01: I think it was two weeks ago he made six.
37:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
37:06
SPEAKER_01: And that's why they won.
37:08
SPEAKER_00: I was just throwing that out there as a joke, but I I did see that though, and I was like, are you kidding me?
37:13
SPEAKER_00: Alright, my friend, the floor is yours with our uh our big old dud.
37:19
SPEAKER_01: This one isn't a Green Bay Packer, but it is very Green Bay Packer affiliated.
37:30
SPEAKER_01: The Zebras.
37:31
SPEAKER_01: The refs have been horrible, and this is a a league-wide thing, and I don't know what the deal is.
37:39
SPEAKER_01: I I don't know if you know they signed their their collective bargaining agreement in the offseason and decided that hey, now we got some security, so we're just gonna go rogue, or or what the deal is.
37:52
SPEAKER_01: I don't think that's actually what happened.
37:53
SPEAKER_01: But no, it's probably pretty close, so I I'm with you, man.
37:57
SPEAKER_01: It's just it's ridiculous.
37:58
SPEAKER_01: The the the penalties throughout the league, I I'm not gonna throw the numbers out because they're not gonna be accurate, just coming off the top of my head, but it is by far the most through seven weeks that there's been.
38:11
SPEAKER_01: And they're it's just bad.
38:13
SPEAKER_01: It's getting worse and worse every week.
38:15
SPEAKER_01: We only had eight this week, but they were all incredibly impactful, and at least five of them were controversial.
38:27
SPEAKER_01: And the officials got kind of torn apart today.
38:31
SPEAKER_01: I was seeing all over um Twitter that it was bad.
38:36
SPEAKER_01: The national media tore him apart.
38:38
SPEAKER_00: I mean people who didn't have a dog in the fight were this was horrible.
38:42
SPEAKER_00: We had Bears fans who everybody knows the reputation there, you know, what between us and Bears fans, we we hate each other.
38:49
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
38:49
SPEAKER_00: If you're on Twitter, you can see how toxic it gets.
38:52
SPEAKER_00: And I saw a lot of Bears fans saying, like, hey, screw the Packers, but I'm glad they lost, but man, was that game hard to watch were some of those calls bogus.
39:02
SPEAKER_00: I I was gonna mention you called them the zebras.
39:04
SPEAKER_00: I was I was thinking about calling them the donkeys because that's how I felt about them.
39:09
SPEAKER_01: Yes, it it's getting hard to watch.
39:11
SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is ridiculous.
39:13
SPEAKER_01: This is a game that that we've loved our whole lives, and it's hard to watch.
39:18
SPEAKER_01: This is a bad product, and when I say that, I it's directed towards the NFL as uh meaning that, you know, it it's not necessarily the Packers, yes, they need to be more disciplined in some areas and and it something's gotta change, but at the same time, it's tough when you're getting these phantom or bogus calls that are incredibly nitpicking, and there's really no reason to do it.
39:48
SPEAKER_01: It's it's making the game about the officials and not about the players.
39:52
SPEAKER_01: There should be as few penalties as possible called because you want the product to be the game.
39:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you you should never be able to um change the game the way that they have been.
40:06
SPEAKER_00: You know what's bad when, in my opinion, I'll call him the greatest of all time, Tom Brady's in the booth, and he's disagreeing with back-to-back, roughing the passer calls.
40:18
SPEAKER_01: This was a guy who he he cried and whined up for every time he got touched, he wanted a flag.
40:25
SPEAKER_01: It's playing the game, I get it.
40:27
SPEAKER_01: He he played the system, but yes, I I'm glad you mentioned that.
40:31
SPEAKER_01: I was gonna bring that up myself.
40:33
SPEAKER_01: That when that's the guy that is saying, Are you kidding me?
40:37
SPEAKER_01: Like, this is bad.
40:38
SPEAKER_01: Even Den Dean Blandino came on air and said at least three times, yeah, that's not a flag.
40:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's the intentional grounding call.
40:46
SPEAKER_00: Brady did not like that at all.
40:48
SPEAKER_00: The same exact thing happened to Detroit earlier in the game, and they were not called for intentional grounding.
40:54
SPEAKER_01: I'll do you one better.
40:55
SPEAKER_01: There was one earlier in the game that Jordan Love had that he was in the pocket and the ball went just as far and didn't make it to the line of scrimmage.
41:03
SPEAKER_01: And no flag.
41:04
SPEAKER_01: And there was no flag.
41:05
SPEAKER_01: So consistency.
41:07
SPEAKER_01: That that's the main thing.
41:08
SPEAKER_01: Like, if if we're gonna throw all of these flags and want it to be as tight as it has been, I I guess okay, fine.
41:18
SPEAKER_01: But call it both ways.
41:19
SPEAKER_00: It needs to be called both ways.
41:21
SPEAKER_00: I my biggest gripe, and it's been more of a a thing here, league-wide, is these refs that um feel like it's an emotional situation and they're gonna throw a flag on it.
41:37
SPEAKER_00: That ref getting knocked down yesterday.
41:39
SPEAKER_00: Yes, it sucks, you were in the way, but quit being a little baby.
41:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
41:44
SPEAKER_00: Keep your flag holstered, man.
41:46
SPEAKER_00: He threw that flag because he got knocked down.
41:48
SPEAKER_00: 100%.
41:49
SPEAKER_00: It had nothing to do with and and they claimed afterwards, I read the the report on it, he thought, well, he thought he heard a whistle, and he thought that Devontae Wyatt was making a tackle after the play had been called dead.
42:02
SPEAKER_00: There was no whistle.
42:04
SPEAKER_01: Multiple Packers said that they never heard a whistle, and even the some of the other officials didn't hear a whistle.
42:10
SPEAKER_00: And the way Amon Ross St.
42:12
SPEAKER_00: Brown got up, had the ball tucked, he was looking to pick up extra yards because he didn't hear a whistle either.
42:17
SPEAKER_00: So Devontae Wyatt did the only thing that he could have done.
42:20
SPEAKER_00: He wrapped him up, he took him down, and the ref happened to get kicked in the man parts by St.
42:26
SPEAKER_00: Brown in the Nether Region by St.
42:28
SPEAKER_00: Brown, fell on his back.
42:30
SPEAKER_00: It was kind of comical.
42:31
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you've seen the memes on it yet, but no, it's one of the funniest flag calls or flag thrown situations.
42:38
SPEAKER_00: He threw the flag flat on his back and it got up in the air.
42:42
SPEAKER_00: That's what I'm saying.
42:43
SPEAKER_00: It was it was pretty funny just to see that back.
42:45
SPEAKER_01: But he was not happy, but that that can't come into your your decision making on that.
42:51
SPEAKER_01: And you're you're right about this being a recurring thing.
42:53
SPEAKER_01: It happened a few weeks ago in Minnesota.
42:55
SPEAKER_01: There were a couple officials suspended this year already because they're letting emotion come into it.
43:00
SPEAKER_01: I understand it's an emotional game.
43:02
SPEAKER_01: Matthew Golden even said it last week after his taunting penalty.
43:05
SPEAKER_01: It's an emotional game, and it is.
43:08
SPEAKER_01: You're you're talking constantly, you're putting so much effort into every play, but at the end of the day, it's about the players and the product on the field, and you can't make it about you.
43:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the officials somewhat for some reason think this game is about them, and it's clear that they think that because it's been going on week after week.
43:29
SPEAKER_00: You had mentioned the taunting call last week against Dallas, Matthew Golden gets called for flexing, and then in this game against Detroit, they pick up the first down on um uh Carl Brooks, jumped off sides on a third and short.
43:43
SPEAKER_00: They pick up the first down.
43:44
SPEAKER_00: I think every single player on that offensive line was emoting, taunting, you know, giving Green Bay every reason to swing and you know get aggressive at the end there, and they didn't, props to them.
43:55
SPEAKER_00: Right.
43:56
SPEAKER_00: But that's not gonna get called for taunting, but you're gonna call Matthew Golden for flexing.
43:59
SPEAKER_00: The NFL.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: NFL themselves reposted that clip.
44:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
44:03
SPEAKER_00: Like, are you kidding me?
44:04
SPEAKER_00: It's yeah, if you you made a really good point, and I don't think for me it would go this far.
44:12
SPEAKER_00: But if we weren't doing this podcast, I would have a really hard time, you know, sitting down and wanting to watch any games in general, but especially, I mean, the Packers, I don't think I'll ever stop watching them.
44:24
SPEAKER_00: But it's really really throwing it up there for a question right now is would I be watching this team as much as I am if the officials are ruining it?
44:33
SPEAKER_00: That's that's what I'm trying to get to.
44:34
SPEAKER_00: Totally agree.
44:35
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I made a note here that like when you're watching a game and a anytime a big play happens, either offense or defense, you can't even get excited because you have to wait to make sure the refs didn't throw a flag either on something that you didn't see, which does happen, but on something that is clearly right on the screen.
44:56
SPEAKER_01: Riley Moss had one yesterday, too.
44:58
SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't just us, not we're not just complaining about our game.
45:02
SPEAKER_01: The Cardinals and Broncos game, Riley Moss got called for a pass interference.
45:06
SPEAKER_01: He literally had to dive as the ball was in the air, didn't make contact with the receiver until the ball got there.
45:14
SPEAKER_01: The receiver dropped it.
45:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
45:16
SPEAKER_01: And then I think Moss.
45:17
SPEAKER_01: He basically only touched him with one hand as they're both, you know, diving through the air, and he gets called for a pass interference.
45:25
SPEAKER_00: That one was absolutely horrible, too.
45:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I saw a cut-up.
45:28
SPEAKER_00: It was the five worst um officiated plays this year.
45:31
SPEAKER_00: And we have three of them.
45:32
SPEAKER_00: We had three out of five.
45:33
SPEAKER_00: So I hate to beat a dead horse and just point the finger.
45:36
SPEAKER_00: I mean, we like you said earlier, we lost this game to ourselves.
45:40
SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
45:41
SPEAKER_00: We left way too many points on the board, way too many opportunities that we didn't capitalize on, but the officials had a huge role in this game, and I don't like my games decided that way.
45:50
SPEAKER_00: No, it it that's not how it should be.
45:52
SPEAKER_00: Let the players do it.
45:53
SPEAKER_00: This was worse than when we had the replacement officials.
45:56
SPEAKER_01: It really is.
45:56
SPEAKER_01: I I texted you either today or at the end of the game yesterday.
46:00
SPEAKER_01: I think I was I spoke too soon when uh I texted you right away in the offseason when they came to an agreement on their collective bargaining because hey, we're not gonna be stuck with replacement refs.
46:12
SPEAKER_01: Well, at this point, I kind of wish we were.
46:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
46:15
SPEAKER_00: Well, I digress, I guess.
46:17
SPEAKER_00: We we have to move on.
46:20
SPEAKER_00: All right, yeah, that's enough of Detroit.
46:22
SPEAKER_00: It's just gotta be better, but we'll we'll flush it.
46:24
SPEAKER_01: We'll got a short week here to turn around on to Carolina.
46:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they got they got their butts kicked against Tampa Bay.
46:32
SPEAKER_01: They did.
46:33
SPEAKER_01: Baker Mayfield was back, so there's a little bit of that.
46:36
SPEAKER_01: But Baker Mayfield was seven for eleven for 64 yards and a touchdown.
46:41
SPEAKER_01: And the final score was 40 something to six, I think.
46:46
SPEAKER_01: I think it was 45 to 6 was a final.
46:47
SPEAKER_01: They might have had 13.
46:48
SPEAKER_01: I can't remember.
46:49
SPEAKER_01: Maybe, maybe they scored a late garbage time touchdown.
46:51
SPEAKER_01: I just I happened to glance at it.
46:52
SPEAKER_00: But it was it was ugly.
46:54
SPEAKER_00: Either way, they they got absolutely pounded, not because of Baker Mayfield, but because the run game, which they ran for almost 300 yards.
47:03
SPEAKER_00: This is something this might be our opportunity to to maybe get 100 yards rushing on the season.
47:10
SPEAKER_00: As a team in a game, in a single game.
47:12
SPEAKER_00: If we can get a hundred, maybe I'll feel good about it.
47:15
SPEAKER_01: I'll feel real good if we can get a hundred because that means that we've almost equaled our output for the season, it'll feel like the recipe's there.
47:23
SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh the ingredients are there to make it happen.
47:26
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
47:27
SPEAKER_00: We have had some past struggles against this Carolina team, so that's something that's kind of in the back of my mind.
47:33
SPEAKER_01: I think that sort of stems a little bit from uh Matt's time with the Rams.
47:39
SPEAKER_01: Uh their D coordinator, Avero, um, was also on that staff in 2017.
47:44
SPEAKER_01: Matt was the OC and Avero was on the defensive staff.
47:48
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, he wasn't the DC, but he was uh pretty higher up uh position in the coaching staff.
47:54
SPEAKER_01: And I I don't know if that is just you know the some tendencies and some familiarity there that they kind of have the book on.
48:03
SPEAKER_01: So that that's been tough the last few years.
48:06
SPEAKER_01: I think Jordan's first year starting, it took a superhuman effort from him.
48:10
SPEAKER_01: And then was that a Christmas game?
48:13
SPEAKER_01: It might have been.
48:14
SPEAKER_01: I know it was later.
48:15
SPEAKER_00: That was the I think that was the Joe Barry game.
48:17
SPEAKER_00: Joe Barry was yeah, Joe Barry pretty much handed Carolina the game, and somehow we were able to Jordan Love won that game.
48:24
SPEAKER_01: Not the Packers.
48:25
SPEAKER_01: That was Jordan Love's game.
48:27
SPEAKER_01: Uh so yeah, that one's something to to keep an eye on, but I do think that if we can establish any kind of run game.
48:34
SPEAKER_01: It needs to be no.
48:35
SPEAKER_00: Yes, 100%.
48:37
SPEAKER_00: Need like capital letters need.
48:40
SPEAKER_00: I would yell it into the microphone, but I don't want to.
48:42
SPEAKER_01: I would I would sacrifice some explosives this week if we can run the ball, let run the ball 30 times.
48:49
SPEAKER_01: If you can run the ball 30 times effectively, and it doesn't have to be seven, eight yards a pop, four.
48:56
SPEAKER_01: If we can average four yards a carry on twenty or more carries, we'll win this game.
49:02
SPEAKER_01: And that sort of needs to be the goal, especially on a short week.
49:06
SPEAKER_01: Your offensive line maybe is going to be patchwork this week, so that's sort of a scary thing to think about, but offensive linemen want to run block.
49:17
SPEAKER_01: They they say that all the time.
49:18
SPEAKER_01: Run blocking is fun because these guys get to get out in space and run down the little guys, and that that's what they want to do.
49:26
SPEAKER_01: And if you can do it enough, that makes the whole whole offense go.
49:31
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm I'm with you having Jacobs back for a second week.
49:36
SPEAKER_00: You did mention it's a short turnaround, so they're not gonna get a ton of rest.
49:41
SPEAKER_00: But I mean Jacobs, he's he's had a lot of rest here the whole season.
49:46
SPEAKER_00: So I think if we put a lot on his shoulders, I feel confident that you know he's gonna he's gonna be the recipe or that he's gonna be the piece that you know puts it all together.
49:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:56
SPEAKER_01: Um bottom line is we're we can't we're not gonna survive with Jordan throwing 40 times a game.
50:01
SPEAKER_01: No, we haven't especially when five or more are gonna be drops.
50:04
SPEAKER_00: The explosives, that's something you had mentioned.
50:06
SPEAKER_00: I I think I would I would definitely sacrifice a handful of the explosives.
50:11
SPEAKER_00: We've been living and dying by explosives this year.
50:13
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
50:13
SPEAKER_00: So it's been a huge part.
50:15
SPEAKER_00: When we get a lot of explosives, we win the game.
50:17
SPEAKER_00: When we don't, we lose the game.
50:19
SPEAKER_00: But I think this is a game where you can sacrifice a handful of those explosives and maybe pick up the explosives in the run game.
50:27
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
50:27
SPEAKER_00: All you need is 10 yards, right?
50:29
SPEAKER_00: That counts as an explosive for absolutely.
50:32
SPEAKER_00: So that's that's something that needs to happen.
50:36
SPEAKER_00: Love's gonna be love.
50:37
SPEAKER_00: He's gonna be fine in this game.
50:38
SPEAKER_01: I think they're still down both their corners.
50:41
SPEAKER_01: I'm pretty sure JC Horn is still out.
50:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't know if the other guy is uh is it Jackson still out there?
50:47
SPEAKER_01: Whoever, either way, they were down both their starting corners um at one point.
50:51
SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure if it's still that way or not, but for sure their best corner's still out.
50:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they have a decent offense.
50:57
SPEAKER_00: Bryce Young has really turned it around this year.
50:59
SPEAKER_00: I I like watching Bryce Young, especially especially with you know his struggles early on in his career, and a lot of quarterbacks like that.
51:10
SPEAKER_00: They they find a way to get rid of him.
51:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and they've stuck with Bryce, and he's he's bounced back this year.
51:15
SPEAKER_00: For sure.
51:15
SPEAKER_00: It's definitely a feel-good story for him.
51:17
SPEAKER_00: And and he's a little guy.
51:18
SPEAKER_00: I like when that happens.
51:20
SPEAKER_00: McMillan, he's a really good receiver.
51:22
SPEAKER_00: Jalen Coker's a really good receiver.
51:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, they have some tight ends there, I think.
51:26
SPEAKER_00: Chuba Hubbard.
51:28
SPEAKER_00: Chuba Hubbard's a really good running back who's been playing well.
51:31
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I'm drawing a blank on their tight ends right now.
51:33
SPEAKER_00: Um Dallas Tommy Tremble.
51:35
SPEAKER_00: I don't know why I said Dallas.
51:36
SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say Dallas Goddard.
51:37
SPEAKER_00: That's that's dumb.
51:38
SPEAKER_00: Um who's the who's the other one?
51:42
SPEAKER_00: Why am I struggling right now?
51:43
SPEAKER_00: Um Darren Waller.
51:45
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, thank you.
51:46
SPEAKER_00: That's where the D the D came from.
51:47
SPEAKER_00: I almost said Dallas Goddard, but I meant to say Darren.
51:49
SPEAKER_00: Darren Waller.
51:50
SPEAKER_00: So they have they have some pieces.
51:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this definitely isn't a game that oh well they just got blown out, so we can it's gonna be a get right game.
51:58
SPEAKER_01: Still the NFL.
51:59
SPEAKER_01: You have to show up, have to execute.
52:01
SPEAKER_01: We need to be better than what we were.
52:04
SPEAKER_01: We need to stop beating ourselves, please.
52:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
52:08
SPEAKER_00: I think with Matt's game plan last week, obviously you're planning for a different team, different defense, but I like the aggressiveness he had last week in Detroit, and I would like to see that continue, especially with the kicking struggles.
52:22
SPEAKER_00: I think you go for it now.
52:23
SPEAKER_00: If you get past the 50-yard line and you got a fourth and short, you're probably gonna go for it unless you see something pre-game that smack is dialed in and he's it's at Lambo, so elements may come into play.
52:37
SPEAKER_00: Um But I like the aggressiveness he had last week.
52:41
SPEAKER_00: Matt LaFleur, I hope he keeps it going.
52:44
SPEAKER_00: Um it's gonna be it's gonna be a really interesting game.
52:48
SPEAKER_00: I think it favors us.
52:51
SPEAKER_00: I I don't know where to go with it.
52:54
SPEAKER_01: They they did just get blown out, as we mentioned, so they're gonna be hungry because you know, these guys have pride too, so that does worry me a little bit, but I think it benefits us that it was a short week and you know they got embarrassed.
53:09
SPEAKER_01: We didn't get embarrassed, we got well, if we got embarrassed, it was by the officiating and just some of the stuff that was totally out of our control.
53:18
SPEAKER_01: And I think that can be used more so as fuel.
53:21
SPEAKER_01: Uh, not saying that Carolina can't, but it's just it's a little bit different.
53:25
SPEAKER_01: It's it's apples and oranges, in my opinion, as far as that goes.
53:28
SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I'm with you on the the going for it.
53:31
SPEAKER_01: I think if it's fourth and six or less, as soon as you cross the fifty, it's gonna be go all day long.
53:39
SPEAKER_01: Uh I do think if you're gonna go with Trey Smack moving forward, if you're gonna stick with him, there is a fine line there, and we you are gonna have to be careful of totally shaking his confidence.
53:54
SPEAKER_01: Where if it feels like we're going if we go on fourth and ten from the 25 yard line because we're afraid to kick, what's that gonna do to his confidence?
54:04
SPEAKER_01: That's gonna affect him definitely.
54:05
SPEAKER_01: Right.
54:06
SPEAKER_01: So there is a fine line there, uh, but at the end of the day, he needs to be better.
54:10
SPEAKER_01: So fine line is not, you know, isn't necessarily coming into play if his job is on the line.
54:19
SPEAKER_01: So we'll we'll have to see how that goes.
54:22
SPEAKER_01: And then I do think that we need to be able to overcome that adversity.
54:27
SPEAKER_01: There's probably gonna be another couple bad calls.
54:30
SPEAKER_01: I'm I don't know who the the crew is doing this game.
54:33
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't really matter.
54:34
SPEAKER_00: Better not be the same crew that we had to do.
54:35
SPEAKER_00: I don't think they do that.
54:37
SPEAKER_00: I know they don't, but wouldn't it wouldn't surprise me if just with how things have been going, it wouldn't surprise me.
54:44
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, you are correct on that.
54:46
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, be ready for that.
54:48
SPEAKER_01: It's it's gonna happen regardless.
54:50
SPEAKER_01: I feel like we're at this at the point now where we have to anticipate that being something that happens every week.
54:57
SPEAKER_00: So Yeah, you can't have a situation where another bogus call gets called or another flag, bogus flag gets thrown, and you just have a complete mental breakdown, and then you know you retaliate against an official, whether it's words, right?
55:13
SPEAKER_00: I don't think anybody would put hands on the official on purpose, but when this thing builds and builds and builds, and it has for the last seven weeks, it's really hard to bite your lip to walk away from the situation when another bogus one gets called.
55:28
SPEAKER_00: So hopefully they can maintain composure and just next play mentality.
55:34
SPEAKER_00: Let's just move on to the next play.
55:35
SPEAKER_00: Control the controllables.
55:37
SPEAKER_00: I love that quote.
55:38
SPEAKER_00: I've been saying that a lot lately.
55:39
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
55:40
SPEAKER_00: Be mad about it.
55:41
SPEAKER_00: Be mad about it, but take it out on Carolina.
55:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, in football and in life.
55:45
SPEAKER_00: That's that's been something I've been saying a lot lately.
55:48
SPEAKER_00: Control the controllables.
55:49
SPEAKER_00: Uh I know on our prediction here, we were giving him an L earlier in the season.
55:55
SPEAKER_00: We had us losing to this one.
55:57
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna do kind of what I've been doing here, and I'm I'm staying away from that again.
56:01
SPEAKER_00: I think we find a way to win here.
56:03
SPEAKER_00: It's at Lambo.
56:05
SPEAKER_01: Um The things that we mentioned are gonna be important.
56:10
SPEAKER_01: I think it's gonna be the run game.
56:14
SPEAKER_01: If we can establish any kind of run game, that's gonna be the key.
56:18
SPEAKER_01: If if they can't, this game could get ugly.
56:21
SPEAKER_01: And maybe maybe we do still win 27-20, something like that.
56:27
SPEAKER_01: If we can run, I think we control the game and it does end up being a get right game.
56:34
SPEAKER_01: Defense is playing fine.
56:36
SPEAKER_01: We mentioned earlier, even you know, in Detroit they gave up a bunch of yards, but not a ton of points, to a very good offense.
56:42
SPEAKER_01: Carolina's offense, granted, they did beat Detroit.
56:46
SPEAKER_01: A few weeks.
56:46
SPEAKER_01: I was just about to say they did beat them.
56:48
SPEAKER_01: A few weeks ago, I think they hung 40 on them.
56:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
56:51
SPEAKER_01: That one was the the type of game I expected us to have with the Lions.
56:56
SPEAKER_01: That one was basically last team with the ball score or was gonna win.
56:59
SPEAKER_00: It looked that way early on, too.
57:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it did.
57:02
SPEAKER_01: And then everybody just kind of quit trying not quit trying to score, but they you know were fighting for who didn't want to score.
57:13
SPEAKER_00: I think the officials had a big part of that.
57:15
SPEAKER_00: It's just very, very good point.
57:17
SPEAKER_00: We're done with that though.
57:19
SPEAKER_00: So my uh my thoughts going into Carolina, my final thoughts.
57:23
SPEAKER_00: I think we win the game.
57:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, I think run games huge.
57:28
SPEAKER_00: You had mentioned that.
57:29
SPEAKER_00: Turnovers, explosives, turnovers.
57:32
SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of those favor us right now.
57:34
SPEAKER_00: So I'm it's a week-to-week league though, so this could be a tough one.
57:40
SPEAKER_00: And if if we lose this, we're back to four and four.
57:42
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
57:43
SPEAKER_00: We went from a three-game win streak, things were kind of looking up, to you know, now we're back to square one, we're 500 on the season.
57:51
SPEAKER_00: We've got New England the following week, Minnesota, and then the bye.
57:56
SPEAKER_01: So this is a a pretty important stretch right now.
57:59
SPEAKER_01: This is this is a huge stretch for us.
58:02
SPEAKER_01: This is definitely a winnable game, so we need to be able to figure out a way to get it done.
58:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
58:09
SPEAKER_00: I think that pretty much wraps it up.
58:11
SPEAKER_00: That's all I got this week.
58:13
SPEAKER_00: We appreciate everybody for following along.
58:16
SPEAKER_00: We're so close to 300 followers on Facebook.
58:18
SPEAKER_00: So if you're listening to this and you don't follow us yet, please do.
58:21
SPEAKER_00: We would appreciate that.
58:22
SPEAKER_00: And go pack go.