Latest / Your Mic / Don't start a podcast without first building a community

Transcript

Don't start a podcast without first building a community · Your Mic

• 0:00
  We're seeing now craving for real human connections,
• 0:02
  especially in the era of AI.
• 0:04
  I think it's gonna be important for podcasters
• 0:05
  to start thinking about audience outside
• 0:07
  of just the microphone.
• 0:08
  Podcasting really fulfilled my radio VJ
• 0:11
  or MTV VJ dreams because it gave me permission
• 0:14
  to start my own show and that's what happened.
• 0:16
  And that's the beauty of the podcast industry,
• 0:19
  especially in 2025.
• 0:20
  What has been your favorite thing about your podcast journey?
• 0:23
  My favorite thing.
• 0:25
  The conversations I really, really genuinely enjoy
• 0:29
  having conversations, the BAM method
• 0:31
  and it stands for brand audience monetize.
• 0:35
  If you do that in that order,
• 0:36
  you will have a remarkable podcast guarantee.
• 0:39
  My man Ozeo, you've got a podcast community
• 0:41
  of more than 4500 podcasters.
• 0:47
  What is the most common question you get
• 0:50
  that you wish they would just get?
• 0:52
  Understand after you answer it the first time.
• 0:55
  Is, you know, how do you grow a community like that?
• 0:58
  How do you engage a community, a lot of podcasters,
• 1:03
  one of the things that they don't think about
• 1:05
  is when they launched a podcast,
• 1:09
  where are all the downloads
• 1:11
  and it starts with really understanding your community
• 1:13
  and where your audience is at?
• 1:14
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:16
  And it's not just a, I'm gonna launch my show
• 1:19
  and people are gonna listen
• 1:21
  and I'm gonna post an audiogram on Instagram
• 1:24
  with the waveforms.
• 1:25
  That's the first part, right?
• 1:28
  The first part is actually launching the podcast,
• 1:30
  kind of like the Nike slogan, just do it.
• 1:33
  But I love the idea of now, you know, we're in 2025
• 1:37
  of really taking the audience first approach,
• 1:40
  a really understanding.
• 1:42
  Before I launch this, is there an audience
• 1:45
  that would be attractive to what I'm trying to provide?
• 1:48
  What transformation are you trying to provide?
• 1:49
  And it's starting there, and knowing where they're at,
• 1:52
  so you can engage them even before you launch the podcast.
• 1:55
  Transformation, pain points, all that stuff, man.
• 1:59
  All matters.
• 2:00
  Yeah, yeah.
• 2:06
  How quickly did you get to 4,500 because that is impressive?
• 2:10
  You know, Freddie, it was through in-person events.
• 2:13
  So back in the day, I was a musician
• 2:16
  and I learned how to organize a lot of local events.
• 2:20
  And even during that time, we had a very,
• 2:21
  we had the alternative hip-hop funk man
• 2:23
  and where we're like a live instrumental band.
• 2:25
  At the time, we didn't have a lot of bands
• 2:27
  that were doing that.
• 2:28
  So what I'm going with this is that I had to create
• 2:30
  a community early on for people
• 2:32
  that really appreciated that type of music.
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  So I started hosting my own events.
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  And from there, I started hosting events
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  for different niches and different business industries
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  and entrepreneurship.
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  So when I started pod Houston, it was a meetup,
• 2:46
  it was actually a workshop.
• 2:47
  And from the workshop, people were like,
• 2:49
  well, when's the next thing?
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  And then from there, it just started evolving,
• 2:54
  from there and growing.
• 2:55
  You had a product market fit,
• 2:59
  people asking when the next one is.
• 3:01
  That is crazy.
• 3:02
  Okay, so I wanna go back to your days of organizing communities
• 3:06
  and building these events before social media, maybe?
• 3:10
  Or did you already have that?
• 3:12
  Was my space around, or were you doing this
• 3:14
  by make-up calls?
• 3:16
  Yeah, yeah.
• 3:17
  No, it was actually, it was my space, you know,
• 3:19
  post, well, even in my space,
• 3:21
  I was even organizing local events
• 3:23
  through just connecting with people.
• 3:25
  So yeah, yeah.
• 3:27
  And then it was just got into it.
• 3:28
  And I think to me, and I feel like even now,
• 3:31
  Freddie, we're getting in this space
• 3:33
  where I'm always even encouraging content creators
• 3:35
  of any kind to not only think about the online strategy,
• 3:39
  the social strategy, but really thinking about
• 3:41
  the offline strategy, what can we do to create that
• 3:45
  in real life in person of an experience.
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  And now we're seeing podcasters take their shows
• 3:50
  on the road, which is exciting for me,
• 3:52
  because I'm like, I used to do that as a musician,
• 3:54
  but we're seeing now a craving for real human connections,
• 3:58
  especially in the era of AI.
• 4:00
  I think it's gonna be important for podcasters
• 4:01
  to start thinking about audience outside
• 4:03
  of just the microphone.
• 4:05
  You know, one of my favorite writers,
• 4:06
  Jack Carr, who also has a podcast,
• 4:10
  has said something regarding AI
• 4:13
  that has always stuck with me
• 4:14
  and that AI doesn't have a soul.
• 4:16
  And so they goes back to the human connection
• 4:18
  because we do.
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  Well, 99% of us do have a soul, right?
• 4:23
  And it's all about building the relationship,
• 4:26
  nurturing it, fostering it,
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  getting people to want to go to the next thing.
• 4:32
  So what are your thoughts on online versus offline?
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  Like, is there the, what's the magic potion?
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  Like the magic equation is 50, 50, 50,
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  like promoting a Facebook group.
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  I thought Facebook groups were over.
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  Is it Instagram channels?
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  Is it, you know, how many times do you post to that?
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  How many live events do we do?
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  Like, what are you finding in your area
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  in your zone of influence?
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  What are you finding to be the secret sauce?
• 5:02
  Or if we're just engaging with your community?
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  Or just building one.
• 5:06
  A building one, yeah.
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  So I used to do monthly meetups,
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  and that was a lot.
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  So how we met?
• 5:12
  Yeah, that's right.
• 5:13
  That's right, we've been together at a meetup, yeah.
• 5:15
  So I get in a testament to the power of in-person events
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  of meeting especially your local community.
• 5:21
  If anybody's watched or listened to this,
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  not only, I mean, don't sleep on local.
• 5:25
  But as far as answering your questions,
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  as far as cadence, I mean,
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  whatever feels right is practical to you.
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  I think there's people, live events, meetups,
• 5:31
  could be a lot of work, could be daunting.
• 5:34
  Yes.
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  You know that, right?
• 5:36
  Yeah, yeah.
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  Are people gonna show up?
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  I mean, I'm telling you, I always have like,
• 5:39
  this anxiety attack like leaning up to the event
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  because you're like, are people gonna show up?
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  How many bullets of sweat are you sweating?
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  Real man, it's real.
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  It's real, but it's also one of those things
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  where I tried not to think about it.
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  I'm like, you know what, I did the thing,
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  people are going to show up.
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  At least your friends and family will show there
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  be to support you, and then everything else
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  is kind of like a topping on the cake.
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  But I think it's important, and not only that,
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  for any one of the things that I think is overlooked
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  when it comes to just hosting events,
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  whether it's through live streaming
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  or having a discord or Facebook community,
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  is that as you show up, your people will show up for you.
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  And eventually, it's kind of training,
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  kind of like when you publish a podcast
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  on a weekly, you know, as coaches, we talk about,
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  make sure you train your listener,
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  and you do that by showing up on a consistent schedule
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  much like TV shows, your favorite TV show.
• 6:30
  So you get to make sure you show up.
• 6:31
  And then eventually, what I've noticed,
• 6:32
  there's a snowball effect of just being
• 6:34
  at the top of mind, people will eventually say,
• 6:36
  you know what, let me go to the event.
• 6:38
  Let me go check out that live stream.
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  And then your community starts kind of picking out from there.
• 6:42
  That's what I've noticed.
• 6:43
  Show up for them, and they'll show up for you,
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  and it might not be everybody all at once.
• 6:50
  That's it? Yeah. That's it. Yeah.
• 6:53
  You working, you working radio, you got radio experience?
• 6:57
  I want to say radio.
• 6:58
  I mean, just because I have the voice ready,
• 7:00
  thank you, raises, it means I'm like, yeah.
• 7:02
  But I like to know how you're tying in that experience
• 7:07
  and that involvement with legacy media, with what you do.
• 7:12
  Yeah, so just to be clear, I've never worked in radio.
• 7:16
  Yeah, you work for a radio group.
• 7:17
  So I work for a media group. Gotcha.
• 7:19
  Which had a radio division. Gotcha.
• 7:22
  I'm on the podcasting side. Ah, okay.
• 7:25
  So I've always meant, yeah, we'll thank you very much
• 7:27
  for that experience. Yeah, thank you.
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  But you know, it's really interesting.
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  I'll share this story with podcasting, Freddie,
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  is that I remember when I was growing up,
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  you know, we used to love MTV was a TV to watch.
• 7:41
  I mean, right? I used to love watching your own TV wraps
• 7:43
  and all the other. Tell me I'm old without telling me I'm old.
• 7:46
  We're kind of lazy. We're lazy, I thought it was a radiance.
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  But you know, MTV was a beautiful thing.
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  And I remember always thinking to myself right now.
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  I was like, I would love to be a VJ one day.
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  I would love to interview, even though it's in and out,
• 7:59
  but I was like the idea of interviewing celebrities,
• 8:02
  asking them like what inspired them?
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  Carson daily had the best job ever.
• 8:06
  1,000%. He traveled, he got to do all the parties.
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  And I'm like, man, I want to be that guy. Yeah.
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  And I was like, one day, I will love to be behind the mic
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  and interview people who will inspire me who I look up to.
• 8:18
  Yeah. And I was like, when I got introduced to podcasting,
• 8:21
  this was like in 2010. I'm like, this is my opportunity.
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  This is my opportunity to host my own thing and get to reach out
• 8:29
  and interview people who I want and build a community.
• 8:32
  So really podcasting really kind of saves and really
• 8:36
  fulfilled my radio VJ or MTV VJ days and dreams
• 8:41
  because it gave me permission to start my own show.
• 8:43
  And that's what happened.
• 8:44
  And that's the beauty of the podcast industry,
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  especially in 2025.
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  And I think we can also, for better or worse,
• 8:52
  credit the year 2020 with the rise of the Indy,
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  because nobody had anything to do.
• 8:59
  And so people were starting podcasts and ordering mics off
• 9:03
  of Amazon and starting their show and their closet
• 9:05
  or in their living room.
• 9:07
  And now we've got, we've got not just true crime,
• 9:11
  but we've got Indy hosts that their parents of children
• 9:15
  with certain conditions, their college kids that are navigating
• 9:19
  through veterinary school.
• 9:22
  They're elderly people, they're people from all walks of life
• 9:27
  and you and I have a mutual friend, Victoria,
• 9:29
  who's got the chemical show,
• 9:31
  which is about the trillion dollar oil and gas business.
• 9:37
  Every niche, I challenge anybody who's watching
• 9:40
  or listening in that, if you have an interest in whatever it is,
• 9:44
  it could be the craziest thing.
• 9:45
  Go on Apple and do a search and have to do anything.
• 9:49
  There's somebody's producing podcast content
• 9:51
  that's centered around the topic that you're interested in
• 9:53
  and that's what I love about this.
• 9:54
  I want to see if there's a podcast about the Smurfs
• 9:57
  in eight wrestling right now.
• 9:58
  Let's go.
• 10:00
  And I'm sure there is, man.
• 10:01
  I wonder if it's a surprise.
• 10:02
  And that's a beautiful thing, right?
• 10:03
  It's very topic based and now you're seeing more niches
• 10:06
  that are emerging in the podcasting space and I love it.
• 10:09
  Oh, absolutely.
• 10:10
  Because it's not enough to be a parent of a college aged kid,
• 10:16
  how about being a parent of a college aged kid in Texas
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  or being the parent of a college aged kid in the city of Houston?
• 10:24
  Right. Right. Yeah.
• 10:26
  Take it from the state to local to really ultra niches
• 10:30
  and that's what you're seeing.
• 10:31
  Yeah. It's pretty cool, man.
• 10:32
  Yeah.
• 10:33
  What is, what has been your favorite thing
• 10:36
  about your podcast journey like ever?
• 10:40
  Wowser, my favorite thing.
• 10:43
  You know what, the conversations, Freddie,
• 10:46
  like I really, really genuinely enjoy having conversations.
• 10:51
  I think the best podcasters are the ones that go in.
• 10:54
  Hard to believe it because we were born just 20 years ago.
• 10:59
  That's right.
• 11:00
  But you've been podcasting since 2012.
• 11:02
  I have.
• 11:03
  And to say there are a lot of changes since then
• 11:05
  would be an understatement.
• 11:06
  So let's do a two-parter.
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  What's been your favorite change?
• 11:10
  One, two, what are you least excited about?
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  Two great questions.
• 11:18
  What is my favorite thing?
• 11:21
  You know, as an indie podcaster,
• 11:24
  it's been amazing to see it evolve and be embraced
• 11:27
  by people who didn't embrace it in the beginning.
• 11:31
  I love seeing it evolve.
• 11:32
  Some people have some thoughts of like,
• 11:34
  oh, there's the, you know, the NPRs
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  and the main traditional media legacy media
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  coming into the space.
• 11:39
  I think it's a great thing.
• 11:41
  Honestly, I don't, I don't think it,
• 11:42
  I think it's more people,
• 11:44
  there's more attention to podcasting.
• 11:47
  And I love that it's been embraced as like real media.
• 11:50
  Yeah.
• 11:51
  And I like that.
• 11:52
  We're influencing elections, dude.
• 11:54
  I mean, come on.
• 11:54
  I mean, what it was like last year was like
• 11:56
  the year a podcast, elections as they coined it.
• 12:00
  So, and now even we saw recently with, you know,
• 12:03
  the whole Taylor Swift and the whole marriage thing.
• 12:05
  And I was like, you know, but it's interesting,
• 12:07
  but it's all attention to podcasting.
• 12:09
  And I love that podcasters are getting their respect.
• 12:12
  Yeah.
• 12:14
  Oh, absolutely.
• 12:14
  Even the indie creators.
• 12:16
  And then as far as the, was it the least?
• 12:19
  Yeah, what are you least excited about?
• 12:21
  Oh, man, what am I?
• 12:23
  You know, I am, let's see.
• 12:28
  I, you know, I think when it comes,
• 12:29
  I'm not, there's nothing that's really grinding my gear
• 12:34
  to give them.
• 12:35
  When it comes to podcasting,
• 12:38
  I think there's still room to grow.
• 12:44
  I, from an audio RSS OG starting, you know,
• 12:49
  with just a mixed minus.
• 12:50
  Before you kids came in with,
• 12:51
  before you kids came in with their sonies
• 12:53
  and these video cameras in YouTube, you know,
• 12:56
  people asked me, you know, all the time.
• 12:58
  It's like, you know, how do you feel about that?
• 12:59
  Because it seems like audio is being shifted
• 13:02
  and moved to the side, to the passenger side.
• 13:05
  And now it's a video.
• 13:06
  Yeah.
• 13:08
  And I would like to challenge a lot of the audio OG heads
• 13:12
  in the RSS heads that say, hey, listen,
• 13:14
  it's okay to embrace video.
• 13:17
  As a matter of fact, when I first got introduced
• 13:18
  to podcasting, it was actually video podcast.
• 13:21
  What was it?
• 13:22
  What was the podcast?
• 13:23
  It was called Mixergy and the Rise to the Top.
• 13:25
  Okay.
• 13:26
  And there were both entrepreneurial podcasts
• 13:28
  for startups.
• 13:30
  And one was for like solo pernivers.
• 13:31
  And there were video shows.
• 13:33
  There were video shows.
• 13:34
  So video has, this is not a new thing.
• 13:36
  Right.
• 13:37
  Video podcast was still a thing,
• 13:38
  but now it's re-emerged obviously
• 13:40
  because YouTube is now playing in the sandbox.
• 13:42
  So I think it's a great thing.
• 13:44
  I just, I don't like the idea of people saying,
• 13:46
  well, we got to protect the RSS.
• 13:48
  And yes, as an indie artist, I agree.
• 13:50
  I get it.
• 13:51
  And I think there's always going to be,
• 13:51
  that's going to be what podcasting
• 13:53
  at a score it's going to be.
• 13:54
  But I think I will love to kind of change
• 13:56
  the idea of podcasting and note that it's evolving.
• 14:00
  It's changing and we just got to go with it.
• 14:02
  I don't get caught up in the whole industry talk.
• 14:05
  Yeah. And building on that,
• 14:06
  there was an article that recently came out
• 14:07
  by Sound's profitable and I forget the guy who wrote it.
• 14:11
  I'll look it up, put his name in the show notes
• 14:13
  and link to the article,
• 14:14
  but he talked about how just under half
• 14:19
  of podcast consumers on YouTube
• 14:23
  are actually listening to podcasts.
• 14:26
  Instead of watching,
• 14:28
  conversely, 30% of Spotify podcast consumers are watching.
• 14:34
  So might take away,
• 14:36
  and I love to get your thoughts.
• 14:39
  My takeaway is audio is still king one
• 14:43
  and video will never not be important
• 14:45
  if you can do it.
• 14:46
  If you've got the budget in the bandwidth
• 14:48
  to at least go all in and try and get it
• 14:51
  at least 75% right and then course correct as you go.
• 14:55
  And I like to know what you think.
• 14:59
  Here's my thoughts when it comes to audio and video.
• 15:01
  I always say, isn't that audio versus video?
• 15:03
  And I think the people try to make it that way.
• 15:05
  It's audio and video.
• 15:07
  Yeah.
• 15:08
  As you pointed out in that data,
• 15:10
  it's like people are even consuming audio content,
• 15:12
  even on YouTube.
• 15:14
  YouTube is just a distribution platform.
• 15:16
  It's a very big distribution channel.
• 15:19
  But you know, I don't fight wherever the listener is at.
• 15:22
  You meet them where they're at.
• 15:23
  And that was a common theme that was shared
• 15:24
  in the podcast movement last year
• 15:26
  and they talked about it this year
• 15:27
  is that it doesn't matter about what we think.
• 15:30
  The market speaks.
• 15:32
  So if they're there,
• 15:33
  find a way to get your content to them.
• 15:36
  And I don't like this idea of like we got,
• 15:38
  we got to choose like it's us.
• 15:40
  It's like, no, at the end of the day,
• 15:42
  it's our listeners, our community.
• 15:44
  Yeah.
• 15:44
  That matters more than anything else.
• 15:46
  Right.
• 15:46
  So I don't think that answers your question.
• 15:48
  But yeah, I think it's audio and video.
• 15:50
  Yeah.
• 15:51
  And again, I think it's important to be able to give choice,
• 15:53
  right choice matters.
• 15:54
  Well, and so like the example,
• 15:56
  the example that I think of and I've given this
• 15:59
  in my newsletter is that before we are having
• 16:02
  any of these discussions about audio versus video
• 16:05
  and do I put my podcast on the YouTube podcast app
• 16:08
  and you copy paste my RSS feed,
• 16:11
  I was listening to audio books on YouTube
• 16:14
  where the quote unquote video was just the cover.
• 16:19
  Just a static image of the book cover
• 16:22
  and those quote unquote views were in the hundreds of thousands.
• 16:29
  So if there is ever a time,
• 16:33
  if you ever needed an example of someone
• 16:35
  who's had success on YouTube
• 16:40
  and not needing a whole video production,
• 16:42
  it's like, look up your favorite audio book.
• 16:45
  That was and the video was the quote unquote video
• 16:49
  was posted before we were ever having these arguments
• 16:52
  or debates about podcasting, just go and see the proof.
• 16:57
  I've noticed even my behavior now has changed.
• 17:01
  So I still have, I was listening
• 17:03
  when I first started to listen to the podcast,
• 17:04
  it was Apple podcast and I still listen to Apple podcast
• 17:07
  when I'm listening to audio.
• 17:09
  But I've noticed when I'm at home, Freddie,
• 17:10
  I'm not actually with my headphones with my app.
• 17:13
  I'm actually watching YouTube.
• 17:17
  Like I look at it while I'm watching my dish
• 17:20
  that is on YouTube and I'm streaming it.
• 17:22
  And it's still audio, I'll still put my headphones on
• 17:25
  and occasionally I will look, but I'm still listening.
• 17:29
  So again, it's audio and video and it's weird
• 17:32
  because I would never thought that my behavior personally
• 17:34
  would change, but it has changed.
• 17:37
  And I don't, I don't gripe about it.
• 17:39
  Yeah.
• 17:39
  I have to go for a walk then I'll plug it on Apple.
• 17:42
  Right. And it's interesting to see how on the back end
• 17:47
  and the analytics and then you can read the studies
• 17:49
  that you see that there is X percentage of people
• 17:52
  watching it on TV, just like you, washing dishes
• 17:54
  and maybe when I'm washing dishes, on the TV.
• 17:58
  Smart TV.
• 17:59
  That's real.
• 18:00
  You are literally a TV star.
• 18:01
  Yeah. That's it.
• 18:03
  Yeah.
• 18:04
  Here's another interesting thing about audio.
• 18:05
  This is talked about on a podcast movement recently,
• 18:09
  which is a big podcast conference for those who don't know
• 18:12
  that if you look at the back end consumption rate,
• 18:18
  the retention rate when it comes to audio,
• 18:20
  it's still 15 to one audio over video.
• 18:22
  Oh yeah.
• 18:23
  So you will look at the audio analytics
• 18:26
  because we have to look at that as well.
• 18:27
  So we like to point out, yes,
• 18:29
  podcasts should get on video for branding,
• 18:33
  for brand awareness, for visibility,
• 18:35
  for obviously the YouTube discoverability for sure.
• 18:38
  However, it's interesting to point out
• 18:41
  that the insight, the data shows that the audio retention rate,
• 18:46
  if it's 60, 70%,
• 18:49
  if you look at the video AKA watch time hours,
• 18:53
  which is equivalent on YouTube,
• 18:55
  maybe two to three minutes.
• 18:56
  Yeah.
• 18:57
  I don't want to point that out.
• 18:58
  And I think that's a really profound insight
• 19:01
  because when people think audio is dead, I'm like, no,
• 19:05
  attention is still in retention in audio.
• 19:07
  Audio is still keen.
• 19:09
  Oh yeah.
• 19:09
  Video is still kind of a brand play and visual,
• 19:13
  but people don't stick around as much
• 19:16
  on video versus audio.
• 19:17
  And I think it's important to distinguish that.
• 19:19
  Oh, absolutely.
• 19:20
  And I think that's even more important
• 19:22
  when you're talking about a niche podcast
• 19:24
  that if we're talking about 90s wrestling
• 19:28
  and the Smurfs earlier, right?
• 19:30
  So we're talking about something to very niche things.
• 19:35
  Is it gonna get 10 million subscribers?
• 19:37
  No, is it gonna have a small community?
• 19:39
  Well, it's gonna be presumably a lot easier
• 19:42
  to build retention with something like that, as opposed to.
• 19:47
  Not only that, but I think the smaller niches,
• 19:50
  one of the things that's been really attractive
• 19:53
  is that advertisers really love maybe shows
• 19:56
  that are maybe not big and download numbers,
• 19:59
  but imagine if you are looking to advertise your event
• 20:03
  or your product or service,
• 20:06
  and you see a podcast in a very old triniche
• 20:08
  that's aligned with your audience,
• 20:10
  and they get a good solid,
• 20:13
  let's say one to 2000 downloads a month or whatever,
• 20:16
  maybe per episode, that's attractive.
• 20:18
  That's a targeted audience that will listen
• 20:21
  to your ad every single week.
• 20:24
  That's attractive to an advertiser.
• 20:26
  So again, lifetime value.
• 20:28
  There you go.
• 20:29
  It matters.
• 20:30
  It doesn't go away, man.
• 20:31
  It doesn't go away.
• 20:32
  So that's something that's really attractive that you don't
• 20:34
  need all the massive download numbers.
• 20:36
  If you have something targeted that's consistent
• 20:39
  as an advertiser and as somebody wants to monetize,
• 20:41
  there's value in that.
• 20:43
  What are your thoughts on downloads?
• 20:46
  We obviously know that retention is gonna be king, right?
• 20:50
  Because you can have 1,000 people go into Macy's
• 20:52
  on Labor Day weekend.
• 20:54
  If 1,000 people go into Macy's on Labor Day weekend,
• 20:56
  don't buy Jack Crap, it doesn't even matter.
• 20:59
  So if you think in terms of downloads versus retention,
• 21:02
  people are downloading him,
• 21:04
  but if they're not going to listen all the way through,
• 21:05
  so what do you tell people as a coach
• 21:08
  about downloads versus retention?
• 21:10
  Like what are your key milestones, all that sort of a thing?
• 21:14
  I think there's some education to be involved here
• 21:17
  with really especially with my coaching clients
• 21:19
  of download numbers will always be the standard metric
• 21:23
  for podcasting, but now what we're seeing is retention
• 21:27
  is king right now.
• 21:29
  Yeah.
• 21:31
  So if you have a retention that people are sticking around
• 21:34
  to listen to your podcast,
• 21:35
  if it's over 100%, that means people are coming back
• 21:38
  and listening to it, right?
• 21:39
  So you want to get it 70% or higher.
• 21:42
  And these are stuff that you can look at,
• 21:43
  podcast, connect or on Spotify,
• 21:46
  but even now what's even more important
• 21:49
  is not only attention to retention,
• 21:52
  but also really understanding the engagement.
• 21:56
  So if you go to your social media channel,
• 21:57
  let's say if you have a show and you have a nice following
• 22:00
  on Instagram and let's say LinkedIn,
• 22:03
  are people engaging with you?
• 22:06
  That's a very important metric for you to measure.
• 22:09
  So I think it's important to measure,
• 22:12
  I think those two metrics are important
• 22:14
  for podcasters to measure is again, retention,
• 22:17
  your retention rate and engagement
• 22:19
  over downloads all day.
• 22:20
  And I think that's what we're seeing now, Trin going.
• 22:23
  What are your thoughts on that?
• 22:27
  I like the idea of promoting a podcast episode on social media
• 22:31
  because I think that free advertising is great.
• 22:35
  If you can execute a social media strategy halfway decent,
• 22:40
  right?
• 22:41
  Donovan of audiograms.
• 22:43
  I think that was probably just a thing back in the day.
• 22:46
  But 2019.
• 22:47
  Yeah, 2019, you know, before I,
• 22:49
  when I was still in radio,
• 22:51
  but you know, with the advent of tools like Opus
• 22:54
  and we were talking before we started recording,
• 22:56
  their tools like Opus and Munch, Riverside.fm
• 22:59
  is what we use for virtual interviews and such.
• 23:04
  If you tweak them, you do the text layovers
• 23:07
  and relevant b-roll and that's some crap that, you know,
• 23:10
  you have to tweak it, you have to massage
• 23:11
  the tools and then post the short form video.
• 23:15
  And only if there's something relevant to your social media
• 23:18
  audience does it really make sense?
• 23:20
  Because at the end of the day, if Ozeel and Freddie
• 23:24
  are scrolling on Instagram on a Friday afternoon,
• 23:27
  it's four o'clock and we're ready to wind down.
• 23:29
  We want to watch dog videos or something
• 23:31
  about entrepreneurship.
• 23:32
  Are we really going to see, are we really going to make
• 23:35
  the extra effort for John Doe who has this podcast clip?
• 23:39
  Like, oh, I was scrolling for dog videos
• 23:40
  and entrepreneurship, but hmm, let me see.
• 23:43
  I'm just going to go ahead and click on John Doe's
• 23:45
  Lincoln, Lincoln profile, Lincoln bio,
• 23:48
  and then open up the app and go and put my ear buds in
• 23:51
  and listen to the episode.
• 23:53
  That's a lot of extra steps.
• 23:55
  So you don't think social media really has much
• 23:58
  of a punch when it comes to marketing your show?
• 24:00
  I think it's just branding and awareness.
• 24:03
  And it's there, you know, like I hate to make the comparison,
• 24:08
  but it's like commercials, you know?
• 24:10
  No, that's a fun commercial.
• 24:12
  Fanta makes nice fun, bubbly, catchy commercials.
• 24:17
  Yeah.
• 24:19
  Chevy does too.
• 24:20
  I don't remember the last time I bought a Chevy.
• 24:22
  That's a good point.
• 24:23
  That's a good, yeah, great analogy.
• 24:24
  Amazing commercials.
• 24:25
  But speaking of analogies and I would love to,
• 24:27
  I would love to pick, oh, because I knew when we were
• 24:31
  going to get you in here that I wanted to talk about this.
• 24:33
  We were a podcast movement in Dallas
• 24:36
  and you had this banger, banger, branding, analogy.
• 24:42
  I know you know what I'm talking about.
• 24:44
  You remember?
• 24:44
  How can I forget?
• 24:45
  Wow.
• 24:46
  So please take it away.
• 24:47
  Out of all the things we talked about, that's sick of.
• 24:49
  I must be deep with something right with that.
• 24:50
  Genius, baby, come on, man.
• 24:52
  That's cool, man.
• 24:53
  I appreciate it, man.
• 24:54
  Yeah, let's talk about that.
• 24:55
  So I shared with you a podcast movement
• 24:58
  that one of the method that I,
• 25:01
  when I coach clients or teach workshops
• 25:04
  is the BAM method, which is a BAM
• 25:07
  in a stands for brand, audience, monetize.
• 25:12
  So I always teach new podcasters
• 25:15
  and I think this is a really good exercise for,
• 25:17
  for even podcasters that have been established
• 25:20
  of really kind of doing an audit
• 25:22
  and really understanding do you have this in the steps,
• 25:24
  in these steps.
• 25:25
  So first you build a brand and brevity,
• 25:30
  what I mean by that is that you,
• 25:31
  if you really dial in your vision, your mission,
• 25:34
  who you are and who are you going to serve, right?
• 25:37
  What transformation are you going to give to the second set,
• 25:40
  which is your audience?
• 25:42
  And then you attract your audience
• 25:43
  through a solid, dialed, and clear brand messaging,
• 25:47
  you will attract your community, your audience,
• 25:50
  and that's how you attract a community,
• 25:52
  whether, and you build it up through newsletters,
• 25:55
  through social life streaming,
• 25:59
  different elements that will bring in person events,
• 26:01
  there's different ways where you can build a community.
• 26:04
  And then the third thing is, you monetize.
• 26:07
  And I think what I've had a lot of,
• 26:11
  back and forth with a lot of experts
• 26:12
  and gurus about this, because I always say,
• 26:15
  for any people, try to get into podcasters
• 26:16
  because they want to make a buck.
• 26:18
  You know, they want to make money
• 26:19
  and as they choose a different hobby,
• 26:20
  because this is going to be a different.
• 26:23
  And if you do, it's a marathon.
• 26:25
  Exactly, exactly.
• 26:26
  Well, you know that, right?
• 26:27
  So you build a brand, you attract an audience,
• 26:31
  and when you have a community and audience,
• 26:33
  then you can monetize.
• 26:35
  And you monetize it through providing services
• 26:37
  or products or digital products, masterminds,
• 26:40
  memberships, I mean, really exciting as a solo creator
• 26:43
  is that there's a lot of opportunities
• 26:44
  for us to monetize via a podcast, right?
• 26:47
  And newsletter, all of that.
• 26:48
  So it's really exciting for the, for the Indicator right now,
• 26:51
  but you do it in that order,
• 26:53
  and I feel like if you miss a step,
• 26:56
  and you don't do it in that order,
• 26:58
  I feel like you find yourself kind of,
• 27:00
  in this kind of hamster will, this losing game,
• 27:03
  whether if you think about the money,
• 27:04
  but you don't have a brand of audience,
• 27:06
  you're not going to make anything about it, right?
• 27:07
  If you attract an audience, great,
• 27:11
  but they don't know what you're about.
• 27:13
  They don't know what your brand is about.
• 27:14
  So you can, it's kind of influencer, right?
• 27:16
  You can create, you know, you can,
• 27:18
  you can be that QC person or, or do, you know,
• 27:21
  show your abs or whatnot.
• 27:22
  You can attract the audience,
• 27:24
  but you'll see that there's a set that a lot of influencers
• 27:27
  don't make a lot of money.
• 27:29
  And the reason why is that they're really good at grabbing
• 27:31
  attention, attracting an audience,
• 27:33
  but they don't got a brand that represents anything.
• 27:35
  So again, the band method, build a brand,
• 27:38
  attract the audience, and then you monetize your message.
• 27:41
  If you do that in that order,
• 27:42
  you will have a remarkable podcast, guaranteed.
• 27:45
  Might not be overnight.
• 27:47
  No.
• 27:47
  Might not be overnight.
• 27:48
  It's a marathon, baby.
• 27:49
  It's a marathon.
• 27:50
  And no, it's not a marathon length sprint.
• 27:53
  That's right.
• 27:54
  That's right.
• 27:55
  That's right.
• 27:56
  That's another banger quote from Jack Carr.
• 27:58
  That's good, that's good.
• 27:59
  Because we talked about writing a book.
• 28:00
  He talks about, you know,
• 28:02
  it being a marathon length sprint, right?
• 28:04
  Yes.
• 28:05
  But this is not that.
• 28:06
  No, it's not.
• 28:07
  No, it takes, I mean, it takes dozens of years.
• 28:10
  I mean, there's a, oh, Chris Williamson from the,
• 28:14
  from Modern Wisdom.
• 28:15
  Yeah.
• 28:16
  He was putting out videos and, you know,
• 28:18
  he would talk about how some weeks it,
• 28:21
  he would have two views.
• 28:22
  And boy, did that resonate, still resonates with me, you know?
• 28:26
  Yeah.
• 28:27
  Still resonates.
• 28:27
  And, and a lot of people will see,
• 28:31
  oh, well, it's Modern Wisdom and it's, you know,
• 28:33
  at the top of the chart, so he's doing this
• 28:35
  and interviewing people like, you know, whoever, right?
• 28:37
  And yeah, that took years to get.
• 28:41
  Yeah.
• 28:42
  And I think, you know, going back to that question,
• 28:43
  that great question you asked me earlier, you know,
• 28:45
  I think that, that you just pointed me in that direction
• 28:48
  about the least thing that I don't like about podcasting
• 28:51
  is I don't like it when people get into the space
• 28:54
  and think that it happens overnight.
• 28:56
  I don't like it where they get into the space
• 28:58
  and feel like they can get this short SM7B
• 29:01
  and a roadcaster and feel like they're going to,
• 29:04
  to make a millions of dollars, the Joe Rogan money,
• 29:08
  you know, in six months.
• 29:09
  This is a very, it's a game of patience.
• 29:13
  It's a game of being a passion,
• 29:16
  being persistent, a really understanding
• 29:19
  that it's really not about you.
• 29:21
  What's happening is that you could do this
• 29:23
  or because you're passionate about the topic,
• 29:25
  but what's happening is that you'll burn out,
• 29:27
  but if you really want to build a brand in community
• 29:29
  and potentially monetize,
• 29:31
  you got to make sure audience first.
• 29:33
  And I think a lot of podcasts are still creative
• 29:35
  and as a creator, as a creative, I get it.
• 29:37
  Like, I have this great idea
• 29:38
  and I'm going to just get on the mic and talk about it.
• 29:40
  I'm like, yeah, but what is the brand beyond the mic?
• 29:43
  Like once we get you out of this
• 29:45
  and you have your 10, 12 episodes,
• 29:47
  what else are you going to dig into?
• 29:49
  And if you haven't built in that brand
• 29:51
  that will attract the audience,
• 29:53
  then I find podcasters will fizz up pretty quickly.
• 29:56
  Yeah, so again, for podcasters who are looking
• 29:58
  to do this overnight and make money,
• 30:00
  that's probably the thing that at least,
• 30:01
  yeah, piss me off a little bit.
• 30:03
  Yeah, it's a great thing.
• 30:05
  Chaps is hot.
• 30:06
  There you go.
• 30:07
  There you go.
• 30:08
  There you go.
• 30:09
  There you go.
• 30:10
  What other one is my gears?
• 30:11
  It grinds my gears.
• 30:13
  Oh, man.
• 30:14
  Well, this has been incredible.
• 30:17
  It's always fun chopping it up with you, dude.
• 30:18
  Yeah, man.
• 30:19
  Yeah, likewise.
• 30:20
  Yeah, I just want to say, you know,
• 30:22
  one of the things that I really admire about you
• 30:24
  for Eddie is that you know, really took a leap of faith.
• 30:26
  You know, everything that you've done
• 30:28
  to, you know, transition from radio
• 30:30
  into this podcasting space and, you know,
• 30:34
  to get involved in the community
• 30:35
  and seeing your support at pod Houston
• 30:38
  and, you know, reaching out to a lot of people here
• 30:41
  who I admire, who are friends of ours, right?
• 30:43
  We have a really close circle here in Houston,
• 30:46
  reaching out to us and asking, you know,
• 30:48
  for us to support you on this amazing event
• 30:51
  that you have coming up, you know, speak fast.
• 30:53
  And, you know, it's a testament of you supporting
• 30:57
  indie podcasters, people in your space.
• 31:00
  And I just really appreciate and respect.
• 31:02
  People who have genuine heart for the medium
• 31:06
  who really appreciate it, who understand that
• 31:08
  they want to use this medium to support others.
• 31:11
  And just, man, I'm just so proud of you for just,
• 31:14
  again, doing the damn thing, man.
• 31:17
  You know, you're like the representative
• 31:18
  just just doing it and it's not hard.
• 31:21
  It's not, well, it's not easy.
• 31:24
  It's really hard to do this.
• 31:25
  And you made the jump and you're making it happen.
• 31:28
  So much, much love and respect, man.
• 31:30
  Well, much love and respect back to you.
• 31:31
  Nothing but love and respect.
• 31:32
  You're an OG, man.
• 31:33
  You were building this empire, your empire,
• 31:36
  before I ever knew that I was going to need a podcast
• 31:40
  or need to grow a podcast company,
• 31:43
  you were in the trenches already doing the work
• 31:45
  and laying the foundation for, for numbscalls like me
• 31:48
  to come around and do it because we need, you know,
• 31:51
  we needed to pay the bills and you're right.
• 31:54
  This isn't easy.
• 31:55
  It takes a lot more time.
• 31:57
  Now we're getting in the kind of the entrepreneurial mindset.
• 32:00
  It's not easy.
• 32:01
  It takes way more time and it's way more expensive
• 32:03
  than you could ever imagine.
• 32:05
  And you're going to spend a lot of time by yourself
• 32:07
  in your feelings.
• 32:08
  You're going to feel like the best boss in the whole wide world
• 32:11
  on one morning and that same day,
• 32:15
  feel like the worst boss ever.
• 32:17
  You wish you can fire yourself and it's just
• 32:21
  that roller coaster of emotions,
• 32:23
  but I'd have a no other way.
• 32:26
  I'd have a no other way because I got my tribe.
• 32:30
  There you go.
• 32:31
  I got my tribe.
• 32:32
  You know, you and I had a very, very pivotal discussion
• 32:35
  at podcast movement.
• 32:36
  You know, I am so happy and I'm so proud to know you
• 32:39
  and to call you a friend.
• 32:41
  You know, we've had a couple of really good talks.
• 32:43
  And so the feeling is mutual, brother.
• 32:45
  Feeling is very mutual.
• 32:47
  Love you, man.
• 32:47
  Yeah, I love you, man.
• 32:48
  Respect.
• 32:49
  Yeah.
• 32:50
  So October 10th and 11th, you're going to see Ozeal
• 32:52
  at SpeakFest 2025.
• 32:54
  He's going to be teaching a workshop
• 32:56
  called Building Your Podcast Community.
• 32:58
  And you definitely want to come and check him out
• 33:00
  and you want to check out all of our workshop hosts.
• 33:01
  You know, he says we got mutual friends,
• 33:04
  Reno Friedman Watts, one of them.
• 33:06
  We've got a whole host of people.
• 33:09
  We're bringing in Ozeal, a podcast hall of famer.
• 33:13
  Wow.
• 33:14
  Rob Greenley from the podcast.
• 33:15
  He's the chair of the board of the podcast hall of famed.
• 33:17
  Rob is awesome.
• 33:18
  Yeah, Rob is really awesome.
• 33:21
  And so he's going to be leading a panel.
• 33:23
  We're going to be screening a documentary, Age of Audio,
• 33:25
  directed by Sean Michael Cologne,
• 33:27
  who we met at podcast movement.
• 33:30
  So it's, this is just the tip of the iceberg.
• 33:33
  And it's the first of many SpeakFest events.
• 33:36
  And it's a, it's a freaking honor to have you be
• 33:39
  a part of the first one.
• 33:41
  And yeah, you all get your tickets
• 33:43
  to speakpodcasting.com slash SpeakFest 2025.
• 33:48
  Bro, thanks again.
• 33:49
  Amen.
• 33:50
  I'm excited.
• 33:51
  This is fun.
• 33:52
  And I'll see everybody at SpeakFest 2025.
• 33:54
  All right.