Latest / SHULCHAN ARUCH YOMI: Own the Halacha in 25 minutes a day! / Yoreh De’ah 173:1-4. Interest: Higher Sale Price If Paying Later or Lay-Away; Selling a Loan
Transcript
- 0:00OK, good morning. We are on.
- 0:02We are in Simon, Kufai and Gimel.
- 0:05Sif, Alef. Kufai and Gimel Harbe, prote
- 0:08DNA. Ribis a lot of protein of the
- 0:10laws of Ribis, specifically Ribis that could.
- 0:13Come up in a cell. We're in the 1st.
- 0:15We're going to cover things that happened during a cell.
- 0:18So, Aleph Mahala. Habero doba seshava azar.
- 0:22Zehuvim, Beaud Base, Bishville. Shamanten Law.
- 0:27Sir, So the first is is what we would.
- 0:29Call a layaway plan if you'd pay me now and take when you take
- 0:35the object. So then it's $10 and if you want
- 0:41me to not accept payment for another 30?
- 0:43Days then it's $12.00. So that is what would we call
- 0:47what we call. Agarnata agarnata so that.
- 0:51It's it's it's the. We're getting essentially the
- 0:55MOFA is getting paid to not accept the money for a while.
- 0:58That had to have the money be. By the by the buyer.
- 1:02For a little bit longer. So that's a form of lending him
- 1:05the money and he's getting, he's getting.
- 1:08Paid for. Lending him the money in that
- 1:10way. So that's awesome.
- 1:15It's. Really, the price is. 10 but I
- 1:19will. Let you keep.
- 1:20It for longer for. 12 so that's that that way is.
- 1:24Awesome. We're going to see some ways
- 1:25that I want to atilu Imhamokhar usher even if the one selling.
- 1:30It is is wealthy. Then it's our flammals.
- 1:32He doesn't need the money. But in other words, it's not
- 1:36worth it so much that you know whose hands the money is by.
- 1:40It's not like he needs the money desperately.
- 1:42Such that oh hell, those extra 2 suit.
- 1:44Could really help me? Or or.
- 1:46You need to compensate me for the fact that I don't have the
- 1:48money right away. None of that applies.
- 1:50It doesn't matter. It's still agronata below.
- 1:54Haisa Haskar Nifsuddis Ezlow Also if we were to keep this
- 1:59horror by the Mofar. For the time for that.
- 2:01It'll take the lover to. To get the money together.
- 2:04So it's not like this. Horror would would rot, right?
- 2:06So. There's no, there's no.
- 2:08Even if there's no real difference to the MOFAR, doesn't
- 2:11matter. It's it's it's awesome.
- 2:14The nods var memoriam the devastation.
- 2:16Shah yadua. When is it?
- 2:18Also it's. When the when the price of the
- 2:21item there's an actual Shah, there's an official rate for
- 2:26this. So when when we're talking about
- 2:27different currencies? The Bank of Israel, for example,
- 2:30has an official. Conversion rate between
- 2:33different currencies, right. So that would be like an
- 2:34official. Price of this item.
- 2:39Oh, double shumto. Yeah, and there's an.
- 2:44Official price maybe? Maybe some of the subsidized
- 2:48items in Israel? That's an it's an official, it's
- 2:50an official price that that. Different stores can charge.
- 2:53That might also count. Right, so there's there's.
- 2:55There comes an an official price for an item Item Odover Shoshum.
- 2:59Told you do or or. Or even an item that the going.
- 3:03Rate for it. Is known if you go and.
- 3:06Pill pill Oshiba like pepper or wax these.
- 3:09Are things that people would constantly buy.
- 3:12Right, so the fact. That they would constantly buy
- 3:14it means that there was a known price in the city, in the area.
- 3:17The known price what? What?
- 3:18It is what were. What are people paying in the
- 3:20shop? Right, because it's a common,
- 3:22commonly bought item. If we were to compare this to
- 3:25banking ideas or financial ideas.
- 3:29That it's liquid, right, so. There's there's a known going
- 3:33rate for it. Avatal is the Kyoto, so we say a
- 3:42talos or a para. Where where the size of the item
- 3:47determine and determines its. Its price.
- 3:50And every individual item is, you know, slightly different.
- 3:54So then each one has a slight, slightly different price.
- 3:57So then you can't say that there is a known price for this thing.
- 4:01It's only what are you going to charge for?
- 4:04Al Latas goes to Bosch. And lochar yudua, the EN shumto
- 4:07yudua, there's no known, there's no official.
- 4:09Prize for it. There's no going rate for it.
- 4:12Each one of them has to be prized.
- 4:14Separately. Each one is unique.
- 4:17Each one has to be. Or.
- 4:18It's it's a non fungible item, right?
- 4:21You can't necessarily. It's not like coins where every
- 4:24coin is identical. You can switch one for another.
- 4:27That's that's where the phrase NFTS come from.
- 4:29They're non fungible, right that.
- 4:32As. Opposed to coins, any one of
- 4:34them is exchanged with with another one.
- 4:35The the the cost of 1 currency for another is is completely
- 4:39known. These are individually appraised
- 4:43items. So eventually you do so, then
- 4:45Moto la Mochrobioka then you can you can you can sell them for a
- 4:50higher price. Lathrol Isman cloning such that
- 4:54and it's not such that it's and also to say that the payment for
- 4:59it is later. So you can you can roll up the
- 5:03Agarnatar into the price. Of the item because.
- 5:06Who says it's not that price and just say and payment is in in,
- 5:10you know in 90? Days, right, So that.
- 5:12That the whole transaction that would be what to do.
- 5:15Well, Vadshala Yamalo Bufarish, you have to be careful not to
- 5:18explicitly say if you give it to me for if if you pay me right
- 5:24now, then then the price is $10. Then there's my employment Bude
- 5:28base. But you know.
- 5:29Well, with the layaway. Plan you only pay in 30.
- 5:31Days. Then the price is 12.
- 5:33That would be us or. Even in an item.
- 5:35Whose rate? Whose price is unknown?
- 5:37It's not commonly known. Ayn heta ella, there are.
- 5:44Those that say that. Even if you don't say, well pay
- 5:47now it's 10, pay later it's. 12. Even if you if you push it off,
- 5:51the only way to make it more for an item.
- 5:53Whose? Whose?
- 5:54Price is not commonly known. It's only if you raise the.
- 5:59Price a little bit. Abu Maleo, Harvey, What's?
- 6:04What's the role? Aja Nikola College I wish well
- 6:06hamtanis amas Hu Malehu where the difference in the price is.
- 6:10Clear. It's because you.
- 6:12Gave him an extra 30 days, an extra 90.
- 6:13Days to pay so. Then the the price indicates.
- 6:18That. You're doing it because.
- 6:21You're. Extending him credit in a sense
- 6:25Javalek and Mafarishva also. So then that would be like as if
- 6:28you explain it as if you. Explicitly said that there's two
- 6:31prices. And then it's also a common
- 6:34situation which I don't know if it falls under this rubric or
- 6:37not, but a common situation in stores is to charge one price
- 6:40for cash and another price for credit, especially in the United
- 6:43States. I don't know if that if any of.
- 6:48This applies. To that because.
- 6:51There are actually extra. Expenses to the Mofair for using
- 6:55the credit card. Is it considered that that even
- 6:58when you pay with a credit card, you're paying right away?
- 7:00I don't know if that falls under this.
- 7:02But but we're. Definitely saying, you know now
- 7:04pay now or pay later, which is also common in in in the United
- 7:07States. So then we we come to this
- 7:11problem. Hagad gavar anim karba Sarah
- 7:15ulufa amim kshibam saram lahir nim karbiya days.
- 7:19What about something which depends on surge pricing?
- 7:22Right, let's say he. Says that the normal price is
- 7:26tends to move and when the Sarim come to the city when when the
- 7:29officers when the when the fancy people come to town, then the
- 7:33prices. Shoot up to 12.
- 7:35What would be a situation like that, like a seaside town in in
- 7:40the States, when all the New Yorkers come to vacation
- 7:43suddenly? The prices shoot up, so there
- 7:46could actually. Be seasonal changes in prices so
- 7:50then in Regulos borough on in Shaban Hassan leyer motor
- 7:56lemofar beard. Base.
- 7:57So if it's. Normal for that to happen, so
- 8:01then you could. Just say that that's that is the
- 8:03actual. Price now.
- 8:04Now that. This that this.
- 8:05Event has had. Now we're within that time, so
- 8:08then the normal. Price is is 12.
- 8:11I don't exactly understand what the holla mean is here.
- 8:13Right. It's just just talking about it.
- 8:14It's. He's not talking about anything
- 8:19about about, about it being late.
- 8:23It's just like in the case situation where the Sarma there
- 8:27can you charge? Well, yeah, of course you can
- 8:29charge. Well, maybe.
- 8:32OK, Sif Baez Hayelo. Parish and Myrtzela mofam beshok
- 8:39leak after man niad mofam boud. If there's a situation that
- 8:44you're in town, you could take things to the fair.
- 8:48You could do this item that you're selling.
- 8:49You could take it to the fair and sell.
- 8:51It right away. But it would be at a discount,
- 8:54right? So you you have this item you're
- 8:56you want to sell. It in the city.
- 8:59If you were to take it to the fair, you could sell it for 10
- 9:00and it would sell right. Away.
- 9:02Then toba osamaalo Catholic knows some Vita namos miad ikna
- 9:06osam Bude. Bays.
- 9:08Reza Moto, now we have somebody in town, he said.
- 9:10Look, I I don't. I don't want to have to wait.
- 9:13I want to be able to buy this right now.
- 9:14I'll, I'll pay. You 12 for it, so is that also?
- 9:18Aguinatar, the answer is no, it's not.
- 9:20It's you're you're saying look. If if I were to go to the to the
- 9:23fair, I could get it. For cheaper, but I want to buy
- 9:24it here and so the. Price actually is 12, so that's
- 9:27not has. Nothing to do with.
- 9:30You have to be careful to differentiate between variations
- 9:34in price because of their natural setting.
- 9:38Versus. Are you charging more such that
- 9:41you don't have to pay right away?
- 9:43Gimel, He's paying more right away.
- 9:47Yes, yeah. But if you were if the low calf
- 9:54were were to. Take it to somewhere else or the
- 9:57Mofar would take it to somewhere else.
- 9:59There would be a difference in price, right?
- 10:01And there would be a difference in in in time for having.
- 10:03To go to that place right so, but.
- 10:08We're I think it's really the point here is just to
- 10:10differentiate between natural differences in prices.
- 10:14Because of the situation. Gemma Moffalo.
- 10:18Sora beard base. Amnas la para la ahrazman.
- 10:23You you the the deal is the price is 12.
- 10:26And the deal also is payment is due.
- 10:30A plus. 30 right in in 30. Days that that was.
- 10:34That's when you you actually pay me.
- 10:37Not that there's a difference in price.
- 10:38So. So let's hear it.
- 10:40Yafolomolo. Typically Miyad.
- 10:43So here is there. Is 1.
- 10:46There is only one price, the price.
- 10:47Is 12. And payment is due with.
- 10:51Is due after 30. You can say look.
- 10:53I'll do a special deal. I'll give.
- 10:55You a discount if you pay me now.
- 10:57So there. It's not like.
- 11:00There were two prices. It had you set up two prices.
- 11:02That would be awesome. But are you saying?
- 11:04If you give me cash right now, again, cash right now in the
- 11:08store is very common that you can get, you know, kind of a
- 11:11deal. That's what this is kind of
- 11:13talking about. If you give me cash right now,
- 11:15you can take it right now and we'll, we'll skirt around all
- 11:18the, the, the longer times that it takes me to get my money.
- 11:22That's OK because there because. The point is, there's only one
- 11:25price. The price is 12.
- 11:27And and the normal ways of doing businesses do and.
- 11:31C + 30 so it's not like the buyer is.
- 11:34Lending the money, right, That's right, right.
- 11:37And you just give me a more liquid form of payment, right?
- 11:42A lot of times people. Do this.
- 11:44Yeah, it's a discount. Like like a cash.
- 11:46Discount. But a cash?
- 11:49Discount in the sense that it's not a.
- 11:50Separate prize. It's this.
- 11:53This is the prize is what I'm advertising.
- 11:54This is what we're talking about.
- 11:55This is the deal, but if under the table.
- 11:58You manage to give me cash right now.
- 11:59OK, You can have this attack. Sorry.
- 12:06So he says. That's my Salaga Vedavka Shekhar
- 12:10Niigmar Hamekov. Beard based.
- 12:12That's he. Already rang it up at 12, right?
- 12:14It's been rang up the the price. Was 12 the Zohobo ha Lokaf?
- 12:19Kavar and. The Lokaf already lifted it up.
- 12:22He already took. Possession of it.
- 12:24So bezios bechen. You wanna mortify?
- 12:28I will quote Misha Nigmar Hamekov.
- 12:30But if before the the sale is. Done.
- 12:34So then that's kind of setting up two prices in Mamalo.
- 12:38Tiffany Akshavyud should also make.
- 12:41Off Osman, good base. If once you.
- 12:43Said, OK, if you give me 10, then if you pay right now, then
- 12:49the price is 10, right? And it's before.
- 12:51The low calf took. Possession.
- 12:53So now and the low calf is thinking about it goes no, I
- 12:55think I want to go stick. With the 12 that's awesome,
- 12:59right? That's awesome, because now you.
- 13:00Set up two prices. What was that?
- 13:05Probably. Should have also Alfa's man
- 13:08you'd base and lo you're it's a low calf.
- 13:14If the if the if the low calf. Is is is rejecting?
- 13:20The. Cash now for 10, right Dalit
- 13:26Michie Schlo, star of Alfavero owe Milva al Pass someone.
- 13:32Right with it there's. You know Ruvain lent money to
- 13:36Shimon, and Ruvain has a star that says Shimon owes Ruvain
- 13:43$100 O milva Alpet. Or even in a situation where
- 13:48there is no Shan. But it's it's.
- 13:50Just a known loan, Moto la Mojrom la Aferbepafas, right?
- 13:54So now the star, it's payable in a year, $100 payable in a year.
- 13:59Ruben has the stars of the Shimon owes Ruben $100.
- 14:02You can now sell the star, which is worth $100.
- 14:04You can sell it for later for 90.
- 14:06That's completely, completely allowed.
- 14:09But I feel. A little ideas, man of your own,
- 14:13even if it's not close to if it's not close.
- 14:16To the, the the. Payment time, right?
- 14:18So it's only due in another year then?
- 14:20Bhumi shum Rivis selling a star at a discount.
- 14:25Selling a loan at a discount has no problem with Rivis levaje
- 14:31afraisostar Baha milva. Al Halokeaf as.
- 14:36Long as the person buying the loan.
- 14:38Accepts the risk of the loan right?
- 14:41There's always a risk. That what happens if the.
- 14:44If the borrower. Can't pay back so the person
- 14:47buying the loan is also buying that risk then.
- 14:49There's no problem over this. Kigon, Emya Nihalova.
- 14:54If the Lova gets poorer, shlo. Yolomos me malathora Yeah, it
- 14:58won't have the means to pay back the loan shlo yaza alamovar.
- 15:01So now Levy cannot go back to Rouvain and say you.
- 15:08Sold me a dud. Security, you sold me a A.
- 15:11Stars. For a person who didn't have the
- 15:13means to pay it. So now I want you to make it
- 15:16good. Can't do that, Al Hamoufair
- 15:23allahufrayez Shabba Mahmoud Samoufair.
- 15:25Wait, so we're we're in the friendship between normal Arayas
- 15:28and and Arayas? Of the Lobo.
- 15:32Campaign the Lobo can't pay it back.
- 15:34But if the the. Point is, if Levy is not taking
- 15:38on the afrayas of the loan itself, so then it ends.
- 15:43Up that that the relationship. Between Ruvain and Levy is also
- 15:50a loan and we can't have that because then or or even we could
- 15:57even say that it's between Levy and Shimon, the original
- 16:00borrower and that. He's he's getting a.
- 16:02Discount. So it has.
- 16:04To be that he they accept the loan as is.
- 16:06With with the risks. Of the loan, but.
- 16:10Other risks? Let's see here I'm like hai
- 16:13Shabba Nahmastanova but normal Mochar level risks Kigon
- 16:18Shamanza. Parua or Shotova Balhov.
- 16:21Muktam. If.
- 16:24The star that that Ruben. Sold to lady actual was already
- 16:30paid back there there. Is no.
- 16:32There is no real loan backing the Star.
- 16:35Right. So then you, you saw these
- 16:36subject which isn't real, right? That's.
- 16:39Of course he can go back and get his money back, right?
- 16:41We're not talking about those kinds of of being able to go
- 16:44back to. To to Ruben and.
- 16:46Getting your money back, that should be fine.
- 16:48Oh Shatar for Balhov Mokdam or if.
- 16:51The the Balhov. Yeah.
- 16:59What? What?
- 16:59What's this case Shatar for Balhov?
- 17:01Mokdam not exactly sure what the.
- 17:08What case this? Is but the but the point.
- 17:09Is that it's? Yeah.
- 17:11What's he saying? Yeah, yeah.
- 17:20Again that again where where the star wasn't where the.
- 17:23Star Folk wasn't. Real.
- 17:24In other words, normally star folk could be on on Hassan, and
- 17:29then there's there's a shebot on that.
- 17:30But what if he went if he and someone else collected on it?
- 17:35A situation where there. Is no real claim behind the
- 17:39stock that. That's what we're talking about.
- 17:40In both cases, we're talking about that.
- 17:42There is a lien on it such that you can't such that you can't
- 17:45collect. In other words, the original
- 17:46star the Reuben sold the lady was uncollectible.
- 17:50Right, either because it was already paid back or the the the
- 17:54car car that. That it was meshuba.
- 17:55Two, it was actually. There was an earlier lien on it.
- 17:59Stuff like that. And so Sheila?
- 18:01Lukov that. Doesn't have to be that.
- 18:03The person that Levy. Buying the star accepts that
- 18:07kind of that kind of a prize no that that kind of a prize you
- 18:11know charlatan level Aphraius can remain by by Ruben that
- 18:15doesn't affect as to. Whether there's rib is.
- 18:16Here or not then Yezhbi Anamo from Moshkin Sholei.
- 18:20What happens again? Ruben lent money to Shimon and
- 18:24and accepted a Moshkin motto La mahalo ka.
- 18:28He can now sell this mashkin. Straight out sell it out.
- 18:33Mithen Motors. Yavtifeno Mahalova.
- 18:36But Arvas. Obamashkin.
- 18:38It's also mutter. That the lova will will.
- 18:44Promise to pay back with with an Arivor with a mashkin then.
- 18:49Avar. The Qiba Lovamov Akraias, it's
- 18:52now a kind and we said that it has to be that when the when the
- 18:55mohair. I'm sorry when the.
- 18:57Mohar sells Amashkinor sells a a loan that the aphrais is on the
- 19:06person buying it. What?
- 19:09Happens if the Mohar accepted the Aphrais on himself and it
- 19:12was the wrong thing to do, he did it.
- 19:14So then we say it's now a kind. That it it works.
- 19:21Then any. Of the Kabul Hovo.
- 19:23Masa Loma also and if he and even in a situation where if the
- 19:27if you can't now collect the Hove and the the lady can't
- 19:32collect the Hove and the situation where reuven wrongly.
- 19:36Accepted the Afrias. He can even go back and and now
- 19:40get everything back from from from Reuven.
- 19:42And now it's it's it's Reuven's problem to go collect on it.
- 19:46Muslim Mosad and that that that would stand in court then yezh
- 19:50boreva EE la moschar. But if there would.
- 19:53Be a difference in price because now it's it's all being undone.
- 19:58So as long as the profits go to to to the moschar khushem
- 20:01shahala moschar la author bepophos.
- 20:04Just. Like Reuven could sell this loan
- 20:08to Levy at a discounted rate. Kaka Hollomochololova by Osmo.
- 20:14He could also sell the loan or or the mashkin, he could sell it
- 20:17back to the original lender. He could send it.
- 20:19Back, sell it back to to. To Shimon, now in a normal.
- 20:21Case of of. A loan we're.
- 20:24Always worried about that the. The lender will pay more.
- 20:30Back to the I'm sorry that the borrower.
- 20:35Will pay more back to the lender.
- 20:37This is situation where. The borrower is paying.
- 20:41Less back to the to the lender. OK, he he here.
- 20:46Here's the loan. It's due.
- 20:47And you know, I lent you $100 due in a year.
- 20:50Oh, the the person I'm gonna get out.
- 20:52I I need cash back? I'll sell you.
- 20:54Back this loan that you owe to me for only $90.00 and then then
- 20:58we'll be done. There's no reason why why why
- 21:01you can't do that. OK, Haga.
- 21:05Now the only difference is this. The reason is because anybody
- 21:09else would then hold it till the end of the year and then get
- 21:12Levy would get it from from Shimon would would collect $100
- 21:16at the end of the year. In the case where.
- 21:18Levy is where Levy is. Shimon right, there is no $100
- 21:23at the end of the. Year the, the the.
- 21:24The loan would end up ending at that point, right?
- 21:28But the mechanics. Of it is because of this and so
- 21:31it works Hagar. Asala adenom la havaro.
- 21:35Hey, Lafa. Asardinian.
- 21:40What's that word Taran? Ustarani Mimashini 5 you based
- 21:45in Lukloni. Ufatrani Yeah.
- 21:49Mimashini 5 you based in Lukloni?
- 21:51I'll give you. 10 dinner and if you can get.
- 21:57Rid of this of this Hove that I have to pay 12 to somebody.
- 22:03Else to somebody else. Yes.
- 22:06Where the thinking is that that that. 12 is like a tax or.
- 22:12Some kind of government? Fiat where you?
- 22:15You have to come up with the money.
- 22:17Right, I forgot. The Escher Scheiftar asmo be
- 22:19Yudhinran, even if he. Would also let's say.
- 22:22Pay off the person collecting it with Yudhinran.
- 22:25He could. He could do it himself, but
- 22:27after Shakayev. But after Shakayev based.
- 22:31Dhinran it's only where he there is an actual fee of.
- 22:34Of of of 12. So if you paid, if you paid the
- 22:38guy off. Yourself with only 10 great, you
- 22:40got out of paying 12 but if you pay someone else here's 10 you
- 22:45get rid of my. Hope for 12 SO.
- 22:47Then in a sense, you're you're you're doing.
- 22:52Rivas because that other. Person is assuming.
- 22:57Your loan. To the other person.
- 23:00And why isn't it like he's buying it for a discount?
- 23:05Why should this? Be us, Sir.
- 23:07Well, he's selling it. Selling it as Monta, selling for
- 23:10a discount rate. We just saw this Monta.
- 23:12So what's the what's the issue here?
- 23:14Well, does. That seem sort of like take 22,
- 23:18take two more ginger out of your pocket to cover me.
- 23:22And why isn't, I'm guessing, come from Montana?
- 23:28Paying less back. Is never a problem.
- 23:30Left for this. It's always paying more back.
- 23:32Which is a problem. Right, even if you're saying if
- 23:35you get rid of my my loan, so you're, you know, I'm you're
- 23:39going to pay. 12 and you you're lending.
- 23:41Me 12, then I'm going to pay back 10.
- 23:44That's never a problem with. Ribas, I am moving 12.
- 23:47Yeah, I say to you, here's. 10/10.
- 23:51Do me a favor, pay in 12. Yeah, that's.
- 23:55Not a problem that. Is it?
- 23:58Sounds like the case, but. It the point is that he's not
- 24:01he's not. Pay him 12 somehow get rid of.
- 24:04This this 12, it could be you could pay him. 12 it could be
- 24:07you pay him off to do 12 with only ten.
- 24:11Maybe I'll only give him 10. Give the 12 right?
- 24:14Right. So why thus?
- 24:15I'm not really sure. I've got the the extra shift to
- 24:19ansmobutan the dafkish 5 you'd based.
- 24:21Didn't I will in a hired elish Enough Yatil Allah, he's not yet
- 24:25fired. But there will be a charge of
- 24:2812. Channel.
- 24:31If you have to. Allow omnus that you have to you
- 24:33know, you have to pay in your in your trade or something,
- 24:37something like that and sharp and Amy Dinaso the.
- 24:40Odd. You'd based in which would be
- 24:42worth 12 dinrin, so in OMERSH. Call Alai.
- 24:46Lo Omnus ASA Alan Omar Maltani Min Omnus Motor.
- 24:53If you just say, you know. Pay it off for me and I'll pay
- 24:57you back with omness. That's that's a problem.
- 25:00But if? It just says save me from having
- 25:02to to do this omness that's my time the only.
- 25:05If I have to sell the puff is. Because maybe you can buy more
- 25:07for. Less we'll stop here.