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Not Everything is Beneficial: Conversation · Beyond the Sermon

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  You're listening to Beyond the Sermon Podcast, a First
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  Methodist Church in Collingswood, NJ.
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  On our podcast, the goal is not just to share the sermons we've
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  preached, but to go beyond the sermon and talk about what we're
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  learning and what God is doing in US and in our community.
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  Week 2 of the game and let the church say Christians should
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  only get married in a church building.
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  And I rebuke that. However, I do think it should be
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  a pastor who marries them. I'm also going to rebuke that
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  I'm I'm biblically. I don't have a case for having
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  to be in a church building. No, because there's no church
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  and. And where is a wedding ever like
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  really described in the Bible? It's it's never.
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  So cultural. Yeah, yeah.
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  I think there's there's a holiness to doing a covenant
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  before God and his house, but it's not a requirement.
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  But it's not the whole earth, The Lord and the fullness
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  thereof. Yeah.
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  Yeah, yeah. But then can you get married
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  virtually? Because it's the commitment and.
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  Why I never said? That why not in the whole world,
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  all the realms? He knows your hearts and the
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  commitment you're making. No, no, no.
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  It's got to be in person. Oh, now it's got to be in
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  person. That's a strong stance to take.
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  You want that to be public now? Yeah, You have to get married in
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  person. Sacraments happen, and I mean,
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  as Protestants we don't actually believe that.
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  To say whoa. I'd go that.
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  Far marriage is a sacrament you heard it here first people
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  we're. Not there yet.
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  I didn't say that we're a part of it, but.
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  I don't. I didn't say that either.
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  That's the implication you took away from it.
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  Scott. That sounds like a you problem
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  and a me leaving it in. Problem.
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  Yeah, you. Isn't it in that's a problem,
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  that's what I'm saying. Oh man, well let me see what I
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  got on my handy dandy notes from yesterday's sermon.
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  It's not much, but one of the first things that you made the
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  clarification of when God spoke to you after your night of binge
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  watching and drinking after your tough day, right?
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  I think the drinking was also implied.
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  It certainly wasn't said. But it should have been is the
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  the difference between you were seeking relief when you needed
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  restoration. Where have you sought the
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  restoration instead of the relief?
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  Can you give us a practical, intentional time where you
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  desired relief but you sought after restoration?
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  What did that look like? Like a concrete example?
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  Just yeah. Because if we're supposed to
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  turn from right the one and seek the other, what does that look
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  like? It's not that every time we seek
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  restoration it's going to be a formulaic thing, but do you have
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  an example of a time where instead of going the easy route
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  that would temporarily subside, that you saw what you needed?
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  I mean, it's not like a big exciting answer, but I think I'd
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  point just to Sunday afternoon. Got home, was doing some things,
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  working on some other stuff, blah, blah, blah.
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  Hit a point where I found myself just, I don't know, distracting
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  myself because I knew I was tired and I didn't really have a
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  lot of capacity. And so I, I chose intentionally
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  to go do a little bit of reading so I could fall asleep, like
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  with the goal of falling asleep. And was that like a big moment
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  with God? No.
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  But was it getting at what I really needed?
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  Yes. And that's something that I
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  think God's been working on me about is actually choosing rest
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  even when there's, you know, any number of other things that I
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  could be doing, but allowing myself to rest, trusting that
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  he's still working even when I'm not, you know, some of those
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  Sabbath themes. And so I think that's that's
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  probably the most recent. Example for sure Yeah, well,
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  that's good. Jeremy, what about you?
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  Are there any times that usually crust or a shirt instead of
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  relief That's a. Terrible.
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  Question. I wasn't expecting that.
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  All that time to think while I was thinking.
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  No, I'll say there's there's been times, I think pivotal
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  moments in my life and specifically and the life of
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  Rebecca and I together where whether it be a job change, a
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  job opportunity, miscarriage, whatever it may be, where it
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  brings us to our knees and prayer together before the Lord,
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  where it could be a let's distract, let's relieve, let's
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  you know, whatever it may be with, I don't know, drink,
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  friendships, entertainment, spa days, like whatever it could be
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  to try and soothe whatever else is going on in our minds, which
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  is going before the Lord together has been some of the
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  most beautiful moments in our marriage.
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  But to have that be at some of the hardest times within the
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  marriage also be the most beautiful times because it
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  provided what only God could provide and that our marriage
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  couldn't do on its own. Sure.
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  Yeah. And there are any number of
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  other times where I've been stressed about life
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  circumstances or whatever and the choice to pick up my guitar
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  and sing some worship, play some worship.
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  Or other times where what the invitation has a war.
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  What I know that I is just to get outside alone with God, some
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  solitude, but doing something, not just the solitude of sitting
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  alone on a park bench or something, but, you know, doing
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  some hike, kayak, something like that.
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  Definitely times that God is used to restore my soul.
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  For sure. And IA book I'm reading for one
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  of my classes is called Sacred Rhythms by Ruth Haley Barton.
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  Yeah, I think. Familiar with that one?
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  And love it. First off, she's great.
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  Books great. And my my professor is great
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  because I've now had this professor twice and she always
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  sneaks an assignment in that may not connect with the class, but
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  it's almost to force you to get time with God during the
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  semester. So really caring for the
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  students. And this is that book for sure.
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  And so it kind of talks about sacred rhythms, solitary being
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  one of them, listening to your body, encompassing body, mind
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  and soul and relationship with God and connecting on the past
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  couple of examples you've you've given.
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  And so, yeah, even the other night I just went for a walk.
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  It was beautiful night. It was me.
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  If you know me, it's not hard to imagine shorts while there was
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  still like 7 inches of snow on the ground.
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  I went, I sat on a bench at Newton Lake Park and I was just
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  like, I'm just going to shut up and focus on God and sound like
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  a good like 2025 minutes out there.
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  And yeah, God definitely met me in that moment.
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  Yeah, it was just nice to be restored.
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  It was, I forget what it was. It was like what something in
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  the solitary practice of let God bring up the topic kind of in a
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  sense. Oh, yeah.
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  Like the to figure out what's really on your heart, even if
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  you aren't like hyper aware of it on your heart.
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  And so I'm just sitting there and looking at these geese
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  sitting on the ice while the fountains going on and the
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  lights and everything at night. And it's just like, OK, God,
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  what's on my heart. And I was just getting very
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  humbled. But moving on, one of the things
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  that your sermon made me think of as you're talking about how
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  we navigate to other people's convictions and how they live
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  out their faith and in relation to God and how you may have
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  certain freedoms, but that doesn't mean you should like
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  kind of flaunt it or poo poo others that aren't living in
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  that freedom. It's like the first time that
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  you're at a friend's house and their house has different rules
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  than your own. Yeah.
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  And so I'm wondering, what's your first memory of recognizing
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  that other houses have different rules than your own?
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  First memory. It was.
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  Probably, gosh, I probably wasn't a very old kid at this
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  point, but growing up we never had cable.
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  We never had a video game console of any kind.
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  We did have ATV with rabbit ear kind of yeah antenna.
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  I'm familiar. I studied the Great Depression.
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  Yeah. And we did.
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  We did have computers and eventually, you know, got the
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  Internet. When that was rolling out, he
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  had computer. Sands Internet, Yeah.
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  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just what played checkers no use
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  the calculator app. Oregon Trail.
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  Yeah, OK, the original entertainment.
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  I mean, eventually, but anyway, I remember going to my cousin's
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  house and they had all the things, you know, they had the
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  Nintendo and cable. And what sticks in my mind is
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  when they got Sega Genesis. For those that don't know, a
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  Sega Genesis was a video game console back in the 70s.
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  Yes, if you've ever seen Sonic the Hedgehog.
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  Originally. Was, you know, debuted on the
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  Sega. Yeah.
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  So I was hanging out with my cousin who's just a few months
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  older than me, and he's just like, hey, you want to go?
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  Let's go do this. I was like, don't we need to ask
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  somebody? Like, it's like, no, I was just
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  like, I can do whatever you want in this house.
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  So yeah, that would be one of those small things that sticks
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  in my head of like, oh, not everyone has the same level of
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  strictness about some of these things.
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  Oh yeah, my household does. I went to a neighbor's house at
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  six, and it was like, no afternoon after school.
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  And it's like, oh, yeah, I got this cool movie.
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  And it was Blade, for those that don't know, the vampire hunter.
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  Yeah. And it was the opening scene
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  where there's like this dance club and you don't know that
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  they're all vampires. Wesley Snipes.
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  Yeah, Wesley Snipes. And then the sprinkler system
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  comes on and it's blood and they're drinking blood, and then
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  the Vampire Slayer comes in with the sword and starts killing all
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  these vampires. I was like I was just graduated
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  to PG movies. I don't know that I should watch
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  in this one now. I'm now watching.
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  Oh gosh, I remember watching The Shining at somebody's house.
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  Too. Oh yeah, when you were young.
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  Yeah, yeah, yeah. From church.
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  Of course. Who had us over and as the TV
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  version, you know. OK, that does help.
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  It does, especially with The Shining.
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  Yeah, yeah. But still.
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  Yeah, I had nightmares for a while.
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  Yeah, from that one. Yeah.
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  And then even some things that like, I think it's once you're
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  branching out of your own, the world your parents have created
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  of like, I assumed all pancakes were good and we.
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  I know. And traumatizing, yes.
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  How to sleep over in middle school.
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  She's like, ohh, how many pancakes do you want?
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  I was like, I'm a grown boy, 3-4.
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  That'll start me off. Yeah.
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  And then a guy took my first one.
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  I was like this is. Horrible.
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  No more. How do I How do I She already
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  had three on the plate like I was already set for the three.
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  I was like mitted. I have to eat these now.
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  Who knew you could mess up pancakes?
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  And then I would just started feeling bad for my friend.
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  I was like, is this all he thinks pancakes are?
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  It was, it was so horrible. I felt so bad.
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  It was all those things that like even within the churches
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  that you grew up and you assume, well, yeah, maybe people in the
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  world. But then like if you're in the
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  church, then you obviously have these same limitations or
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  guidelines within the household. And that's not.
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  So. Always, Yeah, that's not always
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  the case. Like I neighbors who Christian
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  family, different house in different church and it's like
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  they lived on the corner of the street and we'd play kickball
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  all the time. They weren't allowed to go on
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  the street to get the ball. I'm assuming now as an adult,
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  parents probably knew someone that got hit by a car or
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  whatever it might be and more sensitive to that.
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  But then they'd always have to go knock on the door and get
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  someone to go get the ball. And I was like, I'm the cool
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  kid. I can just go get it myself.
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  So then I was the one who always getting the ball.
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  But then it's like super strict there.
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  But then your parents let you listen to Green Day, what kind
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  of messed up household it is. You can't get the ball, but you
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  can be, you know, impressioned by the American idiot.
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  Yeah. And so it's it's one of those
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  things of as you're talking about in your in your sermon,
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  you're preaching about meeting everyone out of love where they
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  are now. And it's hard to do as an adult,
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  let alone to teach in and still to kids as they prepare to go
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  out into the world. Lastly, I wanted to touch on
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  we're talking about if everything we say do think to be
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  glorifying to God and time out even within our entertainment.
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  If someone's seeking to glorify God even through the median
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  entertainment that they consume, how do you know if a book, show,
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  or movie is glorifying to God? I think that's like where Paul
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  in those Corinthians passages is talking about conscience.
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  You know, not quite Jiminy Cricket, always let your
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  conscience be your guide. But almost, you know, I think
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  God speaks to us in our consciences and has has shaped
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  our consciences. And hopefully as we grow in
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  holiness and in the process of sanctification, you know, he's
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  refining that conscience more and more.
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  So I think that's probably the primary way that I would judge
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  it. You know, I'd read the the books
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  behind the series that was Game of Thrones and felt fine reading
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  the books first started watching the series and the very first
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  scene is very naked people right from the get go and is yeah, I
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  got like 10 seconds into that. I was like, no, this isn't for
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  me. And and there are other things I
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  have no problem watching. You know that.
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  Also have a bunch of naked women at brothels.
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  No, but but other things that people might say, like is that
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  really, you know, should a Christian really watch that?
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  You know, like I don't have a blanket rule for myself about R
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  rated movies. It goes back to just do you feel
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  peace watching it or is there something in you that says if if
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  Pastor Scott, Pastor Jeremy walked in, would I invite them
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  to sit down and watch with me? You know as.
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  Long as you got good food. I mean, but and I mean, that's
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  kind of like a silly thing, but but I think that, you know, if
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  Jesus walked in, yeah, that that doesn't seem quite as realistic.
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  But you know, if somebody, grandma, yeah, somebody from
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  church walked in and saw you watching it, would you feel like
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  you needed to shut it off real quick or come up with a story to
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  cover up why you were watching it or something Like I don't.
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  Know how I ended up six seasons deep?
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  Exactly, exactly. It's going to be different for
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  each person. Like it's different for me than
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  it is for Meg. There are some things I have no
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  problem watching, she said. I don't really want to watch it.
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  For a while we were watching. It was Criminal Minds.
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  Oh yeah. TV show back probably 1520 years
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  ago. Yeah.
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  And it's the team of criminal profilers for the FBI and.
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  And we had a point where it's like this is just, it's a little
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  too dark. It's a little too real.
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  I don't know what exactly it was, but we just, we decided and
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  we were like four or five. It dropped after season 4, so
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  you're fine. Seasons in and and we just, we
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  just decided to stop watching because it didn't sit right
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  anymore. Yeah.
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  Yeah, anything you'd add? Yeah, I, I would say I I've
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  found in my I like it would be drastically different from me
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  for better, for worse. So like growing up, it was PG,
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  if the parent guided, then you could.
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  And then when you turn 13, PG 13 and then, yeah.
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  And so once, once I was able to pirate films and TV shows on my
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  own devices, floodgates open. I was watching everything I I
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  possibly could. That's how I got into horror
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  movies and zombie movies and everything else.
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  And so my high school years, I was everything I could, I could
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  watch to the point I was watching, I think like on
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  average two or three movies a day.
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  Yeah, which like I could have been an A student now that I
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  think about, but I, I was just so and, and primarily in the
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  world of horror and zombie movies specifically.
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  And then I got into college and it was like.
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  The horror stuff, like I don't get a thrill out of it anymore.
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  So like, let me try and find the worst films available so I can
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  feel that edge and that intensity that I once had with
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  horror movies that leads you down some super messed up rabbit
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  holes. So I've I've seen the worst
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  commercial films, right? There's, there's people that
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  watch like actual murders and that kind of stuff and whatever,
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  really dark stuff. But luckily Rebecca is way more
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  of an innocent person than myself.
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  And I also just wasn't in the same circles.
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  And I was also growing in my walk with God.
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  And so over the years, I've been able to use those experiences
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  and times to connect with certain people and be able to
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  open up conversations about faith.
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  And so God's used that time, but I like, he's also taken away the
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  taste and desire for those things.
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  So like, I can now connect with teenagers that are really into
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  horror movies and whatever. And I I still enjoy.
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  The only, almost only time you're ever going to hear Psalm
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  23 read in a secular context is in a horror movie.
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  Yeah. It's just one of those things
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  where it just it's not appetizing anymore.
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  And I think that's due to just deeper relationship with God and
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  having more of a taste and desire for what he desires and
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  loves. And so yeah, that's why for me,
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  it's it's I will never judge anyone for whatever they watch
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  because I guarantee you I've seen worse.
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  But it also is the, yes, it may be good film technically, it may
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  be good storytelling and the way it functions, it may be really
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  great graphics and designs and characters in character
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  building, But that doesn't mean it's necessarily good for you.
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  And I think the more you desire good for you will lead you into
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  better entertainment choices. And that's where for me, like
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  things that maybe I'm not the biggest fan of, I'll watch in
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  community the people similar to like what Paul's talking about.
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  We're like my friends from college when we get together and
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  they have a movie that maybe I wouldn't watch normally now, but
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  it gives us a connection point and a starting point for
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  conversations and relationship building.
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  Like, I'm not, I'm not opposed to that at all, but it's not the
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  I wouldn't go for for relief and definitely not for restoration.
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  Yeah. Yeah.
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  Yeah, it's like Paul's talking about when he says, yeah, all
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  things are. I have a right to do anything.
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  Not everything's beneficial. Right.
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  Just. You get to a point with some
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  things where it's just like, I don't know, this is really
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  adding anything to my. Life.
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  Yeah. And that's, I think the more you
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  face mortality and get comfortable with that, you
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  realize that there's only so much time.
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  You don't know how much time there is.
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  Are you going to, you know, well, all my free time in the
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  last three weeks was stuff that didn't benefit me or anyone
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  else. And then it's done and now, you
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  know, I don't know. I feel like there's so many
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  things that are available to us at all times that can benefit
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  ourselves, our relationship with God and with others that are
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  worth investing in. Well, that's our conversation
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  for today, but that doesn't mean the conversation is over.
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  We'd love to hear your thoughts on these topics as well.
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  To ask a question about anything we've discussed in this episode
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  or to join the conversation, you can head over to
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  fumccollingswood.org/podcast. Thanks for being part of this
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  conversation.