Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - EP. 308 - SKELETONS IN THE CLOSET W/ JANET BANISTER

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JFK ASSASSINATION - EP. 308 - SKELETONS IN THE CLOSET W/ JANET BANISTER · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Remember like Bob Clark and Doug Campbell, Rob Clark, job Bordelli.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: In the Heart of Dallas, relgings unfold, a tel shadows,
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: mysteries and sold but truth is obscured in the Deaths
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: of the Night, The Lone Gun and podcast sheds a
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: Flickering Light.
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: Section one oh seven of the Fair Use Act of
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: nineteen seventy six provides protection to use copyrighted material for research, analysis,
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: education and commentary purposes. We hear at Loose Moose Productions
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: reserve that right now. On with the show. Here's Joe
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: b and the Triple b Hey Andrew Dean House things
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: in Texas.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: Everything is going to hail down here in Dustice.
• 0:56
  Speaker 4: Jolly and then trumble Bee Bam and trumble Me and
• 1:02
  Speaker 4: Joey rock Dog and show a Red trumble.
• 1:06
  Speaker 5: Me and Joby show Me and trumble Bee Baba.
• 1:10
  Speaker 4: Trumble By and Joby rock Doggy shoe ared.
• 1:17
  Speaker 5: Shining.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: I would just thinking the.
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: Shoe cham cha.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Jo and here we go and here we go. You're muted, row.
• 1:51
  Speaker 5: I didn't need to have the sound.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: I know what she said there, yeah, and I say
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: it often, thankfully. I'm muted most of the time anyway. Uh,
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: welcome to the show. This is episode number three hundred
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: and eight of the Lone Gum And Podcast. Along with
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: my co host Joe Borelli, we are pleased and privileged
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: to have a very special guest on the show today.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: She is Janet Banister, great niece of Guide Banister. Maybe
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: you've heard of him if you listen to this show.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: We talk about him often. Welcome Janet to the show.
• 2:23
  Speaker 5: Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's our pleasure totally. And funny story. So, I'm,
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: of course researching an episode and looking up Guy Banister stuff,
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: come across this little thumbnail and I'm like, I've never
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: seen that image of Guy Banister before. So I was like,
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: wait a minute, that's for our podcast. Hold on, let
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: me click on that. And I was like, oh my god.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: Janet Banister has a podcast on Guide Banister. It's called
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: Skeletons in the Closet Family Secrets, and you can listen
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: to it pretty much anywhere, right Janet.
• 3:02
  Speaker 5: Available on all major platforms, and the only place you
• 3:06
  Speaker 5: can't get it is ironically YouTube. But I'm working on that.
• 3:10
  Speaker 5: I don't know quite how to do it. Maybe you
• 3:11
  Speaker 5: guys can walk me through it later.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: So sure, no problem. We are YouTube experts, right, right, Joe, Yeah,
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: totally right. So Janet, welcome to the show. And you know,
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: we talk a lot about the JFK assassination. What is fact?
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: It's the only thing we talked about really so, and
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: we are conspiracy leaning show, but we are document based
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: and reasonable people. I think we're not. There's crazy, kooky
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: conspiracy people now being related to someone like Guy Banister.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: When did you find out the importance and the significance
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: of of guy, you know, and being related to him
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: and what he has contributed to history.
• 4:05
  Speaker 5: So I remember, even as a kid overhearing my folks
• 4:09
  Speaker 5: talk about it. My mother, god lover, didn't ever meet
• 4:13
  Speaker 5: a conspiracy theory she didn't love, and of course that
• 4:17
  Speaker 5: was like a gold mine right in the family, right. Yeah,
• 4:21
  Speaker 5: So the I remember even talking about it at school
• 4:24
  Speaker 5: with my friends when I was a little kid and
• 4:27
  Speaker 5: being like, oh, my uncle may have killed GfK. And
• 4:30
  Speaker 5: then I get the side I going okaye in it, okay.
• 4:34
  Speaker 5: And I was kind of a weird little kid too,
• 4:37
  Speaker 5: so that probably didn't help. Yeah, I can hear the
• 4:40
  Speaker 5: whole town a wee were going here.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So, the.
• 4:46
  Speaker 5: My folks have always been adamant that Guy had nothing
• 4:52
  Speaker 5: to do with it, and there were other things he
• 4:55
  Speaker 5: was into, which I'm going to go into in the
• 4:57
  Speaker 5: in season two. The season finale of season one just
• 5:03
  Speaker 5: came out this week, and we go into the JFK
• 5:06
  Speaker 5: years in season two. My folks have been always pretty
• 5:09
  Speaker 5: adamant that he wasn't involved. And now for clarity, my
• 5:12
  Speaker 5: mother never met Guy, but knew Mary, Guy's widow pretty well.
• 5:17
  Speaker 5: They talked a lot, and of course my dad was
• 5:21
  Speaker 5: probably as close to Guy as as far as I know,
• 5:26
  Speaker 5: it was one of the closer ones to Guy. He
• 5:28
  Speaker 5: remembers a lot more than his siblings did, and there
• 5:32
  Speaker 5: are of course He's got cousins from Uncle Ross. Ross
• 5:35
  Speaker 5: would be Guy's other brother. Ross survived the longest. He
• 5:40
  Speaker 5: passed away, I believe in like two thousand and two
• 5:42
  Speaker 5: or somewhere in there, and Guy was the oldest. Ross
• 5:46
  Speaker 5: was the youngest, if I remember correctly. I know I'm
• 5:50
  Speaker 5: going to look back and regret saying that, but I'm
• 5:52
  Speaker 5: pretty sure Guy was the oldest and Ross was the youngest.
• 5:55
  Speaker 5: There was like a thirteen year difference between him. So
• 5:58
  Speaker 5: Ross was quite a bit younger, and he has his
• 6:00
  Speaker 5: own family, But Dad remembered a lot about Guy and
• 6:05
  Speaker 5: talked a lot about Guy, and it was so I
• 6:09
  Speaker 5: remember when the movie came out in ninety two. I
• 6:12
  Speaker 5: was eleven years old, and I remember them hitting the
• 6:18
  Speaker 5: roof when the movie came out, And it was largely
• 6:24
  Speaker 5: because there was a gigantic difference between what was portrayed
• 6:28
  Speaker 5: in the movie and how he was remembered with the family.
• 6:32
  Speaker 5: And of course, the stories that my family remembers and
• 6:37
  Speaker 5: tells a lot are the stories that are in all
• 6:39
  Speaker 5: through season one, where he was one of Hoover's original
• 6:44
  Speaker 5: g men, and he and Hoover were rather close. There
• 6:48
  Speaker 5: was a pet name for Hoover, and Dad is He's
• 6:53
  Speaker 5: not one hundred percent certain, but he remembers it being
• 6:56
  Speaker 5: the director. The director is on the phone, and.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: So is it.
• 7:04
  Speaker 5: It was funny because my mother always referred to Hoover
• 7:07
  Speaker 5: just too for clarity. She always called him Jay Edgar,
• 7:10
  Speaker 5: like like they were on a first name basis, and
• 7:13
  Speaker 5: so it just kind of makes you feel closer to it.
• 7:16
  Speaker 5: And also at the same time, it's a little bit
• 7:18
  Speaker 5: eerie because in the back of your mind, even as
• 7:22
  Speaker 5: a kid. I remember thinking he's like, well was he?
• 7:24
  Speaker 5: I don't know, so there is even a question for
• 7:27
  Speaker 5: me when I was little, So.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know that that. You know that big memorable
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: scene at the beginning JFK, you know, the infamous pistol
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: whipping scene, you know with him and Jack Martin.
• 7:41
  Speaker 5: Is that.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: Is that what they were upset about? Or was it
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: more like the rest of the movie where they could
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: do those flashbacks and they're kind of insinuating something more
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: sinister between you know what what was going on in
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: New Orleans back then with Lee Harvey Oswald.
• 7:58
  Speaker 5: Well, when it comes to the pistol whip, it depends
• 8:00
  Speaker 5: on which story you believe, because there were three about
• 8:03
  Speaker 5: three stories told about the pistol whipping, and Martin told
• 8:07
  Speaker 5: and you showed it in your last in your episode,
• 8:10
  Speaker 5: the story about the phone bill. If you look into
• 8:15
  Speaker 5: other documents, and I wish I could just like pull
• 8:17
  Speaker 5: these up off the top of my head, but details
• 8:19
  Speaker 5: go kind of like the Peanuts teacher in the back
• 8:22
  Speaker 5: of my head, and I can never remember exactly where
• 8:24
  Speaker 5: I read it. But the Delphine Martin or not Martin, sorry,
• 8:29
  Speaker 5: Delphine Roberts witnessed the pistol whipping, and she herself told
• 8:35
  Speaker 5: a couple of different stories about it too, but hers
• 8:38
  Speaker 5: were fairly close though, like she had mentioned that they
• 8:42
  Speaker 5: were just in an argument and they'd been drinking. But
• 8:45
  Speaker 5: the one that I found the most compelling and probably
• 8:48
  Speaker 5: most likely the truth to me, because Martin was a
• 8:52
  Speaker 5: notorious liar. He was known all around New Orleans esbian
• 8:56
  Speaker 5: full of it that he also, I don't don't know
• 9:00
  Speaker 5: if you were aware he was wanted for murder in
• 9:01
  Speaker 5: Texas under his real name. Yeah, so he was not
• 9:06
  Speaker 5: This is not a good man. And Delphin Roberts said
• 9:12
  Speaker 5: in one of her statements, and now, like I said,
• 9:14
  Speaker 5: she conflicted herself. But in one of her statements, Guy
• 9:17
  Speaker 5: caught Martin going through his files in the act of
• 9:21
  Speaker 5: going through the files, and that's what prompted the pistol whipping.
• 9:26
  Speaker 5: And I find that to probably be the most plausible
• 9:28
  Speaker 5: for the for his rage to be that vitriolic that
• 9:31
  Speaker 5: he pistol whipped him. I absolutely believe it happened. Guy
• 9:35
  Speaker 5: was out of control at that point. So it's not
• 9:39
  Speaker 5: a matter of did it happen, it's what was it
• 9:41
  Speaker 5: really about?
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And with your podcasts and look, folks out there,
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: I highly recommend checking out just taking out her podcast
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: and listening to every episode because they said, you're nine
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: or ten episodes out and we're not even She's not
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: even to the JF play stuff yet. Really, Guy Banister
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: led this fan tastical story, storybook kind of life. You know,
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: it's just insane everything that he was, you know, tied
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: to and into and doing, and you hear about stuff
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: like that anymore.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: Almost like a Forrest Gump type of life, right, love
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: back a box of chocolates.
• 10:18
  Speaker 5: So I've been told by two people and people close
• 10:23
  Speaker 5: to me, like one was a bestie and one was
• 10:25
  Speaker 5: a another relative on my husband's side, that I was
• 10:28
  Speaker 5: full of it and I was name dropping, and so
• 10:31
  Speaker 5: that was part of what prompted the podcast. This is
• 10:34
  Speaker 5: like I'll show you know. So I was able to
• 10:37
  Speaker 5: confirm most of what was told. The most frustrating one
• 10:40
  Speaker 5: was the World War Two stuff. I could not confirm
• 10:43
  Speaker 5: the vast majority of his World War Two stuff he
• 10:46
  Speaker 5: was doing then. But Dad did call me about two
• 10:51
  Speaker 5: days ago and he found one of the magazines about
• 10:58
  Speaker 5: him while he was in the in the height of
• 10:59
  Speaker 5: his career with the FBI. So he's gonna. I'm gonna
• 11:03
  Speaker 5: next time I get out to the ranch, I'll take
• 11:05
  Speaker 5: a look at it.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: So's that's crazy?
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I loved I think it was in the
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: first or second episode. And this is in relation to
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: the portrayal in the JFK movie. You said that you
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: wanted to bridge the gap between how you and your
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: family knew him and how he was portrayed in the
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: JFK movie. And I think you said, in all reality,
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: it's somewhere in the middle, right, And you know, we
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: know we've talked about the JFK movie a lot. It's
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: a great movie, not one hundred percent accurate on a
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: lot of things. That's Hollywood. So it makes me rethink, like,
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: was it portrays Guy in a certain way. He's slurring
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: his words, he's really kind of out of control, like
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: you said, And from your podcast, I've learned he's a
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: much more complex character than I think a lot of
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: people in the JFK community give him credit for. Right,
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: They just look at this little little part of his
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: life towards the end, and he's a very mysterious character.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: He died in nineteen sixty four, right, I don't think
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: there's like interviews with him, So it leaves it open
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: to a lot of speculation and kind of confirmation biased
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: through the decades.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: Right, So.
• 12:29
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's it's challenging, and in a way, he probably
• 12:37
  Speaker 5: looked pretty close to the way that ed Asner showed
• 12:40
  Speaker 5: him in the movie, though the material would have been different.
• 12:43
  Speaker 5: There's some a lot of factual issues with the with
• 12:48
  Speaker 5: the movie, but there's a huge change in his not
• 12:55
  Speaker 5: only his like personality and his actions when he left
• 12:59
  Speaker 5: the fa Right around there is when he had the
• 13:01
  Speaker 5: stroke or received brain damage from a surgery. That is
• 13:05
  Speaker 5: still really that one was the hardest one to try
• 13:11
  Speaker 5: to surf. Several folks quoted and this would have been
• 13:15
  Speaker 5: the Anthony Summers. This is how I found out about
• 13:17
  Speaker 5: it was I was looking at Anthony Summers is biography
• 13:21
  Speaker 5: on Hoover, The Secret Layer, the one where he makes
• 13:25
  Speaker 5: a really big deal about Hoover being gay. I forget
• 13:27
  Speaker 5: the name of it, but I thought it was full
• 13:30
  Speaker 5: of crap. And I called Dad and I said, Dad,
• 13:33
  Speaker 5: did you do you know anything about guy getting brain damaged?
• 13:35
  Speaker 5: And he said no, no, not from a surgery. But
• 13:38
  Speaker 5: then the next time I talked to Dad, he said,
• 13:40
  Speaker 5: you know, I'm pretty sure he had a stroke, like
• 13:43
  Speaker 5: he had sat and thought about it, and I did,
• 13:48
  Speaker 5: and right after I talked to Dad about that. This website. Oh,
• 13:51
  Speaker 5: I'm so frustrated because it's gone and I keep quoting
• 13:54
  Speaker 5: this web, this phantom website. I'm so mad. I'm so
• 13:56
  Speaker 5: mad at myself for not using the wayback machine. But
• 14:00
  Speaker 5: had an interview with one of the aunt Mary's. I'm
• 14:02
  Speaker 5: pretty sure it was Uncle Ross's wife, Aunt Mary that
• 14:08
  Speaker 5: had mentioned to I believe it was Aaron Cohne that
• 14:12
  Speaker 5: he had not only had you know, some damage, but
• 14:15
  Speaker 5: that he had had a couple of strokes. They had
• 14:17
  Speaker 5: a series of small strokes and that really it may
• 14:25
  Speaker 5: not influence your cognition a lot, depending on where the
• 14:28
  Speaker 5: stroke was, but it apparently. I mean, I think it's
• 14:31
  Speaker 5: pretty obvious that it really wildly influenced his judgment and
• 14:39
  Speaker 5: how he dealt with frustration. His window of frustration was
• 14:42
  Speaker 5: always right here, and everything would set him off. There
• 14:44
  Speaker 5: were other incidences where it wasn't just the pistol whipping
• 14:48
  Speaker 5: with Jack Martin. It wasn't just him threatening the waiter
• 14:51
  Speaker 5: with a gun. He also got into trouble when he
• 14:55
  Speaker 5: pulled a gun on some teenagers on a bus who
• 14:58
  Speaker 5: were harassing him. So rather than just dealing with him,
• 15:01
  Speaker 5: he was not afraid to use his fists when he
• 15:05
  Speaker 5: was younger, he didn't mind tussling a whole lot, which
• 15:11
  Speaker 5: my uncles were also in the nobody likes, nobody minds.
• 15:16
  Speaker 5: So yeah, yeah, but yeah yeah. And but instead of
• 15:24
  Speaker 5: him taking care of whatever it was going on in
• 15:27
  Speaker 5: a way he would have done ten years prior, he
• 15:29
  Speaker 5: pulled his gun, and that to me speaks very strongly
• 15:36
  Speaker 5: to his lack of judgment. And you can have a
• 15:38
  Speaker 5: stroke and not be completely incapacitated. We've had family members
• 15:44
  Speaker 5: in the past where they had a stroke and were
• 15:46
  Speaker 5: unaware of the fact that one In one instance, the
• 15:52
  Speaker 5: family member was continually having seizures in the portion of
• 15:55
  Speaker 5: the brain in the frontal lobe where she wasn't shaking,
• 15:58
  Speaker 5: she wasn't doing the things you typically associate with caesars seizures,
• 16:01
  Speaker 5: but she would have what looked like tantrums, and it
• 16:06
  Speaker 5: was because of seizures, not because of her being childlike
• 16:10
  Speaker 5: or whatever.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: And so it.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: The branch.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: Right like, the difference is subtle. I think you mentioned
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: that on one of the episodes.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: It can be Yeah, we'll combine that with you know,
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: hard drinking too.
• 16:26
  Speaker 5: It's yeah, combination well, and I there was so he
• 16:30
  Speaker 5: they that's how the family grew up Baptist, and I'm
• 16:33
  Speaker 5: assuming Southern Baptist. I'm pretty sure it was Southern Baptist,
• 16:36
  Speaker 5: because I mean, you know it's in the South. But
• 16:39
  Speaker 5: he with Baptists, you know, they're they're anti drinking. And
• 16:44
  Speaker 5: it was noted on his application by one of his
• 16:48
  Speaker 5: references that he was a good Baptist that didn't drink. Now,
• 16:52
  Speaker 5: that could be it could be one of two things.
• 16:55
  Speaker 5: Maybe at the time he was very observd because guy
• 16:57
  Speaker 5: was really hard about rules. Rules were were rules when
• 17:01
  Speaker 5: he was younger, and that's why he was so obsessive
• 17:04
  Speaker 5: about procedure. If you ever get the chance to look through,
• 17:06
  Speaker 5: it's publicly available if you want to look through his file.
• 17:11
  Speaker 5: Most of his correspondence with Hoover were suggestions to changing
• 17:14
  Speaker 5: procedures because he was obsessive about a procedure and rules.
• 17:18
  Speaker 5: So it's possible he actually wasn't drinking. But there's a
• 17:20
  Speaker 5: joke that you know, if you have if you take
• 17:23
  Speaker 5: a Baptist on a fishing trip and you don't want
• 17:24
  Speaker 5: them to drink all your beer, Just take two Baptists
• 17:27
  Speaker 5: so they won't drink in front of everybody else. So
• 17:31
  Speaker 5: the joke is that there is drinking it within the
• 17:34
  Speaker 5: Baptist arch, but it's just done privately. So who knows
• 17:37
  Speaker 5: what the truth is there. It could be a couple
• 17:39
  Speaker 5: of different things. But yeah, by the time, by the
• 17:42
  Speaker 5: time he reaches New Orleans, he's definitely imbibing rather heavily.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: So when did he leave the FBI. Was it like
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: the mid.
• 17:52
  Speaker 5: Fifties or earlier or it was a very end of
• 17:55
  Speaker 5: fifty four. And that was one of the one of
• 17:57
  Speaker 5: the mistakes I made, And I was shocked how fast
• 18:00
  Speaker 5: he was snapped up by the NPD when he left
• 18:03
  Speaker 5: the FBI. So what that really suggests to me, and
• 18:05
  Speaker 5: I was thinking about it later, and I wish i'd
• 18:07
  Speaker 5: put it in, is that it suggested to me that
• 18:09
  Speaker 5: at some point there was some recruitment going on because
• 18:14
  Speaker 5: he had he retired from the FBI. He sent in
• 18:17
  Speaker 5: his his letter in November, if I remember correctly, and
• 18:22
  Speaker 5: he was he started at the NPD by January.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: The next year, so he wasn't he wasn't fired from
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: the FBI. He basically resigned.
• 18:32
  Speaker 5: Yeah, he did. He definitely did resign. Now, whether it
• 18:35
  Speaker 5: was under pressure or not, it's really hard to say.
• 18:38
  Speaker 5: It was very common for Hoover if he was displeased
• 18:41
  Speaker 5: with you, to transfer you to somewhere you didn't want
• 18:43
  Speaker 5: to go. It could have been a situation in which
• 18:48
  Speaker 5: they wanted Guy to go to hont He was supposedly
• 18:50
  Speaker 5: going to be transferred to Honolulu, and that's why Guy retired.
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: And now.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: What's that Who doesn't want to go to Honolulu.
• 18:58
  Speaker 5: Well, if you want to be in the think of
• 19:00
  Speaker 5: it all the time, you probably don't want to go
• 19:01
  Speaker 5: to Honolulu. Well well, yeah, this was after World War Two,
• 19:05
  Speaker 5: so it's not like he would have seen a lot
• 19:06
  Speaker 5: with that. But Mary Jane, his daughter was ill and
• 19:12
  Speaker 5: had been ill since birth, and so she needed a
• 19:15
  Speaker 5: lot of specialist care. And he didn't want to go
• 19:18
  Speaker 5: to Honolulu because he didn't want her to suffer any
• 19:21
  Speaker 5: sort of setback with her health. And now you could
• 19:26
  Speaker 5: make the argument that Hoover knew that and offered that
• 19:28
  Speaker 5: to get him to quit. You could also offer that
• 19:32
  Speaker 5: it was like a if you d and D like
• 19:35
  Speaker 5: it's a saving throw, trying to save his career because
• 19:38
  Speaker 5: he keeps running his mouth. He never had a filter,
• 19:41
  Speaker 5: even before he started drinking. After he started drinking, I mean,
• 19:44
  Speaker 5: it was all noe, all bets are off. Yeah, So
• 19:47
  Speaker 5: there's a lot of things you could argue there. I
• 19:49
  Speaker 5: wouldn't be shocked if there was some pressure involved trying
• 19:52
  Speaker 5: to get him to quit because of whatever actually went
• 19:56
  Speaker 5: down in Minneapolis. If it went if it made it
• 19:58
  Speaker 5: all the way the complaint, made it all the way
• 19:59
  Speaker 5: to the and the Senator, it was a big stink
• 20:04
  Speaker 5: whatever happened.
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: And so.
• 20:08
  Speaker 5: It's not likely that I know a J. Weberman put
• 20:12
  Speaker 5: down whatever happened in Minneapolis, was he botched a manslaughter investigation.
• 20:16
  Speaker 5: The FBI doesn't investigate manslaughter unless it's on like of
• 20:21
  Speaker 5: a Native American reservation, or under very specific circumstances, or
• 20:24
  Speaker 5: maybe during the commission of a federal crime. Whatever. I'm
• 20:26
  Speaker 5: not a lawyer. Don't come at me if I said
• 20:28
  Speaker 5: that wrong. But the it's what's more likely is that
• 20:33
  Speaker 5: he had an opinion, Yeah, exactly. And it's more likely
• 20:38
  Speaker 5: that he had an opinion about something and let that
• 20:40
  Speaker 5: known and stepped on some toes. Is quite a lot
• 20:43
  Speaker 5: more likely what happened there great, and.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: It seems like that's the same thing that happened in
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: New Orleans when he was in anti corruption. But yes,
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: before I didn't want to like jump to that, Yeah,
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: I want I kind of wanted to. So he he
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: was part of the FBI before like the precursor of
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: the FBI.
• 21:04
  Speaker 5: Yeah, he was part of the Bureau of Investigation before
• 21:06
  Speaker 5: it became the moniker we know today in.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: The thirties, right, thirty four, thirty four, And just just
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: briefly because I want to go through his kind of
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: forrestume type of life. You know, he had in his family,
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: relationship with Hughey, Long, Bonnie and Clyde, the Dyllinger Gang.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: He was part of a lot of things, and it's
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: really crucial when you try to understand the character that
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: is Guy Banister to go back and see what is
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: early and mid career was like. So if you want
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: to talk a little bit a bit about that, I
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: think that would help the audience.
• 21:46
  Speaker 5: Awesome. Yeah, And this what I'm about to say, I
• 21:50
  Speaker 5: think comes from this magazine that Dad just found, So
• 21:53
  Speaker 5: I can back it up hopefully in a week next
• 21:55
  Speaker 5: time I get out to the ranch, hopefully. But Dad,
• 22:00
  Speaker 5: the story he always told is that he was recruited
• 22:02
  Speaker 5: to the FBI from the Monroe Police Department because he
• 22:06
  Speaker 5: was a manhunter. He was known forgetting his man. Guy
• 22:09
  Speaker 5: was the last one allowed into the FBI with no
• 22:12
  Speaker 5: college degree. As far as I know, that's the claim
• 22:15
  Speaker 5: that was made to me, but I also could be
• 22:18
  Speaker 5: that also could be something that was passed down that
• 22:20
  Speaker 5: I mean, who knows.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: So he.
• 22:26
  Speaker 5: His father, William Henry, was a sheriff's deputy in Monroe Parish,
• 22:34
  Speaker 5: and the claim was made that William Henry or sorry
• 22:40
  Speaker 5: Guy guarded Bonnie and Clyde's car and while he was
• 22:45
  Speaker 5: waiting there for the FBI agents to come pick it up,
• 22:49
  Speaker 5: that the FBI agents they had a conversation and he
• 22:52
  Speaker 5: was recruited to the FBI from there. My sister remembers
• 22:55
  Speaker 5: the story a little differently. Aunt Mary came up and
• 22:59
  Speaker 5: saw Guy's widow when we were I want to say
• 23:03
  Speaker 5: thirteen fourteen, somewhere in there, and all I she had
• 23:07
  Speaker 5: a bit of dementia at that point, and I remember
• 23:10
  Speaker 5: all I remember her talking about was Palamina horses. She
• 23:13
  Speaker 5: loved Palamina horses, and she had to tell me all
• 23:15
  Speaker 5: about the Palamina horses. They just heard the palamino horses, Janet,
• 23:20
  Speaker 5: but she told Ginny all the cool stories. It sucks, but.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: He was.
• 23:29
  Speaker 5: She remembers it as Hoover being in the garage as well,
• 23:32
  Speaker 5: and that's entirely possible because Hoover liked to get in
• 23:35
  Speaker 5: the thick of it at that point, he was trying
• 23:36
  Speaker 5: to build a name for himself, So it's entirely possible,
• 23:38
  Speaker 5: probably probable, that Hoover was there as well, and he
• 23:44
  Speaker 5: put in regardless what the truth is, he put in
• 23:46
  Speaker 5: his application about a month after Bonnie and Clyde were
• 23:50
  Speaker 5: taken down and he was hired just this would have
• 23:55
  Speaker 5: been I think in November of that year, so it
• 23:58
  Speaker 5: was after Dillinger was taken down. And that was the
• 24:01
  Speaker 5: big kind of surprise to us and the whole family
• 24:05
  Speaker 5: is that he wasn't at Dillinger's shooting. We all thought
• 24:10
  Speaker 5: he had been. And then I went back to my
• 24:12
  Speaker 5: dad and I said, Dad, there's where did you find
• 24:16
  Speaker 5: where did you hear that that he had been at Dillinger?
• 24:19
  Speaker 5: And Dad said, well I read it, and I went oh.
• 24:25
  Speaker 5: And so then I talked to my cousin who had
• 24:27
  Speaker 5: told me that too, and she said, well, I read
• 24:29
  Speaker 5: that too, and I went, oh, and so looking at
• 24:34
  Speaker 5: the timeline, there's no physically possible way for him to
• 24:37
  Speaker 5: have been at Dillinger. So now he did, however, help
• 24:43
  Speaker 5: take down one of Dilager's associates. And what I think
• 24:45
  Speaker 5: happened is that as he told the story throughout the year,
• 24:47
  Speaker 5: somebody misheard and then misreported because a lot of the
• 24:51
  Speaker 5: work done on his you know, life and what he
• 24:53
  Speaker 5: had done was from interviews after he died, So if
• 24:56
  Speaker 5: somebody misremembered that, that's a really easy thing for that
• 24:59
  Speaker 5: to happen. He was assigned to New York and New
• 25:06
  Speaker 5: Jersey early on, and Aunt Mary told this great story
• 25:09
  Speaker 5: about going to pick up guy and met the entire
• 25:13
  Speaker 5: New York Yankees team at the airport, and she she
• 25:20
  Speaker 5: she loved to tell tales. And after he leaving New
• 25:25
  Speaker 5: York and New Jersey, he was I believe he was
• 25:28
  Speaker 5: in Indianapolis for a little bit too, and then was
• 25:31
  Speaker 5: bumped over to Butte because he told he told Hoover
• 25:35
  Speaker 5: that the FBI was a prostitute trying to retain its virginity.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: Yes, and you refer to Butte as Siberian.
• 25:43
  Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, yeah, And I actually like Butte. Dad loves
• 25:48
  Speaker 5: to go to Butte. Dad'll do it. He he hardly
• 25:51
  Speaker 5: ever leaves the farm, but he loves to go to Butte.
• 25:54
  Speaker 5: And it's if you ever get a chance, Butte is
• 25:56
  Speaker 5: I mean, I'm saying this, I'm not nobody's given me
• 26:02
  Speaker 5: anything from Butte. I love to go up to Butte.
• 26:04
  Speaker 5: And everybody jokes about it being you know, the Berkeley Pit,
• 26:07
  Speaker 5: and yes there is the Berkeley Pit, but the historic
• 26:10
  Speaker 5: downtown part of Butte is so much fun and you
• 26:13
  Speaker 5: get it. You can go deep in the mind and
• 26:15
  Speaker 5: then they turn the lights off and all this it's
• 26:16
  Speaker 5: really creepy. But he spent most of his time in Butte.
• 26:22
  Speaker 5: He was in Oklahoma City there a little while later
• 26:25
  Speaker 5: after and then went back to Butte. And then from
• 26:30
  Speaker 5: Butte went to Minneapolis, then Chicago. And there was another
• 26:36
  Speaker 5: YouTube podcast on Guy. I don't know if you guys
• 26:38
  Speaker 5: had watched that one. I forget the name of the podcasters,
• 26:43
  Speaker 5: but they made the claim they told this really fantastic
• 26:46
  Speaker 5: story about Guy raiding the German embassy in New Mexico
• 26:52
  Speaker 5: and that he bugged it and all this other stuff,
• 26:55
  Speaker 5: and it was a great story. But then they immediately
• 26:57
  Speaker 5: followed that great story up with and Hoover was so
• 27:01
  Speaker 5: pleased with guy that as a reward he gave him
• 27:05
  Speaker 5: the posting in Chicago. Well, that didn't happen for like
• 27:08
  Speaker 5: ten years after that, so that timeline that math ain't math,
• 27:14
  Speaker 5: and and I'm really bad at math, so if I
• 27:17
  Speaker 5: can math it, that's like really bad. And the other
• 27:21
  Speaker 5: problem with it was Chicago's not really a reward. That's
• 27:26
  Speaker 5: one of the least desired posts in in the FBI
• 27:31
  Speaker 5: at the time, because yeah, the difficulty and actually, my
• 27:37
  Speaker 5: nameless FBI friend said a lot of people preferred being
• 27:40
  Speaker 5: in the in the more outermost offices like you, because
• 27:44
  Speaker 5: it was more interesting. You didn't work just in one
• 27:47
  Speaker 5: division that did all like kidnappings or all bank robberies.
• 27:52
  Speaker 5: You had a little bit of everything. So he said
• 27:54
  Speaker 5: that a lot of folks preferred to be out in
• 27:56
  Speaker 5: the smaller offices. So and then that after that is
• 28:01
  Speaker 5: when he went to the NFPD. And now I can't
• 28:03
  Speaker 5: remember what your question was, So did I hear It's okay?
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: No, No, I was going to say, you spoke about kidnappings,
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: and I think I got a whole episode on it.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: I didn't know how prevalent it was.
• 28:15
  Speaker 5: Oh, it was awful forties, thirties, forties, and it was
• 28:19
  Speaker 5: the worst. And it kind of peaked by nineteen thirty eight,
• 28:22
  Speaker 5: if I remember correctly, and.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: Guy Banister's younger brother, Ross was kidnapped.
• 28:28
  Speaker 5: He was, and I didn't know anything about that, And
• 28:30
  Speaker 5: then it was in the file. The FBI sent me
• 28:34
  Speaker 5: with a news clip about it, and I didn't look
• 28:38
  Speaker 5: through most of the clippings. I just was looking through
• 28:41
  Speaker 5: the main file and I sent Dad wanted a copy
• 28:43
  Speaker 5: of everything, so I put it on his computer for him,
• 28:46
  Speaker 5: and then I get a call about a week later.
• 28:48
  Speaker 5: He goes, well, I forgot Ross was kidnapped. I was like, what,
• 28:52
  Speaker 5: and so so then as I looked it up more,
• 28:56
  Speaker 5: it was It's funny because you get a little window
• 28:59
  Speaker 5: into Ross. Because while Guy was pretty bad ass himself,
• 29:02
  Speaker 5: Ross was pretty hard bitten as well. And there's a
• 29:08
  Speaker 5: lot of stories that Dad told when they were young
• 29:10
  Speaker 5: that I won't pass on. I'll keep those private, but
• 29:12
  Speaker 5: they he was tough, He survived a lot.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: Ross was World War Two veteran, right was up the
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: Midway thing.
• 29:19
  Speaker 5: Dad was pretty sure he was at the Battle of Midway,
• 29:21
  Speaker 5: I do know he served. It was in his because
• 29:23
  Speaker 5: he's also Ross was also a state senator and he
• 29:30
  Speaker 5: worked for the Louisiana Highway Department. I'm a little foggy
• 29:33
  Speaker 5: on whether he worked for the state Police or the
• 29:35
  Speaker 5: Highway Department, or if those are the same thing in Louisiana.
• 29:37
  Speaker 5: I'm not real sure, but yeah, I do know he
• 29:41
  Speaker 5: served in the Navy, but I'm not one hundred percent
• 29:43
  Speaker 5: certain if he was at Midway, because Dad wasn't one
• 29:45
  Speaker 5: hundred percent certain.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: But can you remind me how that ended with the
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: the kidnappings?
• 29:52
  Speaker 5: They were debating, so they picked him up. The kidnappers
• 29:56
  Speaker 5: were two convicts that were escapees, and they had damaged
• 30:02
  Speaker 5: the vehicle they had already stolen in another state, and
• 30:07
  Speaker 5: they needed another vehicle. So they saw Ross. It was
• 30:10
  Speaker 5: late at night. It was about nine to forty five
• 30:12
  Speaker 5: at night. They saw Ross and they held him up
• 30:14
  Speaker 5: at gunpoint, and they one of them climbed in the
• 30:18
  Speaker 5: car with Ross and made him follow them to a
• 30:22
  Speaker 5: quarry where they ditched the old car. And then they
• 30:24
  Speaker 5: both hopped in with Ross and kept holding Ross at
• 30:27
  Speaker 5: gunpoint and made them drive. And so then they made
• 30:30
  Speaker 5: him drive to a pharmacy, and at the pharmacy they
• 30:36
  Speaker 5: bought medical tape and then they tied Ross up and
• 30:40
  Speaker 5: they were debating whether they were going to kill him
• 30:41
  Speaker 5: or not, and then they wound up ditching Ross kind
• 30:46
  Speaker 5: of on the side. I think, if I remember correctly,
• 30:48
  Speaker 5: I'd have to go back and look. But he got
• 30:50
  Speaker 5: ditched on the side of the road and he got
• 30:51
  Speaker 5: free of the tape and walked back to town to
• 30:55
  Speaker 5: so he came out okay, But it was kind of
• 30:57
  Speaker 5: a near thing. But the funny I think that's what
• 31:00
  Speaker 5: struck me about Ross is that in his interview with
• 31:03
  Speaker 5: the police, he was talking about how the Ross is young,
• 31:08
  Speaker 5: he's eighteen. He said, these guys were talking like they
• 31:11
  Speaker 5: were trying to impress me, and they were very worried
• 31:14
  Speaker 5: about their images hardened criminals, and He's like, they're full
• 31:16
  Speaker 5: of shit. So that kind of just gave, like I said,
• 31:20
  Speaker 5: a window into kind of Ross's character.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: So yeah, and how do you think that affected guy?
• 31:27
  Speaker 5: I think he would have been He would have been
• 31:30
  Speaker 5: ballistic and what I The other thing I don't understand
• 31:33
  Speaker 5: about that particular kidnapping is there were two offenses that
• 31:36
  Speaker 5: were federal in that kidnapping because they had stolen a
• 31:39
  Speaker 5: car and taken it over state lines and it was
• 31:41
  Speaker 5: a kidnapping. The FBI at that point had Oh wait
• 31:44
  Speaker 5: a second, No, was this in twenty nine? I think
• 31:46
  Speaker 5: it was before the FBI had jurisdiction. No, it wasn't
• 31:50
  Speaker 5: a twenty nine Good gosh, when was that because Huey
• 31:53
  Speaker 5: Long was governor. I think so. It had been in
• 31:55
  Speaker 5: the early thirties. Oh gosh, I can't remember. I'd have
• 32:00
  Speaker 5: to bring it up. It does matter because in after
• 32:03
  Speaker 5: the Lindberg baby kidnapping, that's when the FBI got jurisdiction. Yes,
• 32:09
  Speaker 5: but I can't I can't remember exactly when Ross was
• 32:12
  Speaker 5: in there. It's in the podcast. Just listen to the pod.
• 32:14
  Speaker 5: It'll be all right.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: But the uh, what was it, Fain, You were talking
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: about the Ross kidnapping, right, and Fault about it?
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 32:26
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I guy had recently become an agent. It was
• 32:30
  Speaker 5: really close to the beginning of his career. But anyway, sorry,
• 32:34
  Speaker 5: that's what I remember. What I'm saying now is that
• 32:36
  Speaker 5: the the interstate transport of the vehicle would have made
• 32:39
  Speaker 5: that FBI jurisdiction. I don't know why it was investigated
• 32:44
  Speaker 5: by the Louisiana Bureau of Investigation, but that was one
• 32:47
  Speaker 5: of the most crooked organizations in Louisiana at that time,
• 32:50
  Speaker 5: so they're not exactly known for following rules. They actively
• 32:56
  Speaker 5: that the LBI actually, if I if I have the
• 32:59
  Speaker 5: same if it is the same bureau that was mentioned
• 33:04
  Speaker 5: in the Kingfish book, they actually did kidnappings for Huey
• 33:09
  Speaker 5: Long and warrantless search, warrantless arrests.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: It was.
• 33:13
  Speaker 5: It was pretty pretty scary, but the LBI did clear
• 33:18
  Speaker 5: the case. They found I think at least one of
• 33:20
  Speaker 5: the convicts was found. They found Ross's car totaled upside
• 33:24
  Speaker 5: down in a ditch, but yeah, I had I don't
• 33:29
  Speaker 5: know why that was not investigated by the FBA. That
• 33:31
  Speaker 5: said Guy would have been ballistic, and I have a
• 33:34
  Speaker 5: hard time believing that even Guy was probably in training
• 33:37
  Speaker 5: at that point. And I have a hard time believing
• 33:42
  Speaker 5: that he wasn't trying to at least pull some strings
• 33:44
  Speaker 5: to try to help get his brother back. That would
• 33:45
  Speaker 5: have he would have been pissed, beyond pissed.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: Wow, fascinating.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: This book is so crazy. So all right, I know
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: Guy was portrayed in the movie JFK, but he was also,
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: and I believe what was it was he in Don.
• 34:11
  Speaker 5: Yeah, And I have the hardest time saying Don Delillo's lib.
• 34:15
  Speaker 5: I had to re record that sucker like twenty five times.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: I'm not yeah, yeah. I have trouble saying liberty lobby.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: I say liberty lobbity.
• 34:32
  Speaker 5: Liberty lobbery, yeah. Nice. I even teach diction, I can't,
• 34:36
  Speaker 5: and I can't say else very well. So, but the
• 34:40
  Speaker 5: I'm a choir teacher, so that it's what we do.
• 34:43
  Speaker 5: The In Libra, my my uncle actually really liked that book,
• 34:49
  Speaker 5: not so much that I haven't read the whole thing.
• 34:51
  Speaker 5: I just read a couple of sections where they portrayed Guy,
• 34:53
  Speaker 5: just to kind of get a vibe check and see
• 34:54
  Speaker 5: how they portrayed Guy. And it was probably the closest.
• 35:02
  Speaker 5: Libra was probably the closest as to how we remembered him.
• 35:09
  Speaker 5: The Oh who was the other author, the one that
• 35:11
  Speaker 5: had the cold six thousand?
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: What was his name?
• 35:15
  Speaker 5: I forget.
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: He Summers Weberman.
• 35:20
  Speaker 5: No, it was it was a it was a fiction.
• 35:22
  Speaker 5: It was fiction. I can't think of his name off
• 35:25
  Speaker 5: the top of my head, but his the language that
• 35:27
  Speaker 5: he used and the way he portrayed Guy was so offensive.
• 35:29
  Speaker 5: I couldn't make it, thank you. It was so offensive
• 35:32
  Speaker 5: I couldn't yet past like seven pages in it. He
• 35:36
  Speaker 5: like had guy dropping the F bomb like every other word.
• 35:41
  Speaker 5: All of his characters did, though it wasn't just guy
• 35:44
  Speaker 5: and then. I mean, you know, I do like me
• 35:48
  Speaker 5: a good swear word now and then, but it has
• 35:49
  Speaker 5: to have a little artistry, you don't. You can't just
• 35:51
  Speaker 5: sprinkle that shit everywhere, you know. But the it was
• 35:55
  Speaker 5: more about like he had guy pissing his pants and
• 35:58
  Speaker 5: passing out at a table and all this other crazy stuff.
• 36:02
  Speaker 5: He just kind of really leaned into that stereotype from
• 36:05
  Speaker 5: the movie. I don't remember if that was published before
• 36:07
  Speaker 5: or after the movie, but they leaned it was it.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: I was looking at it just recently. Yeah, and movie
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: was ninety one two, Jeff.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean because as well, up until I guess
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: the late fifties and early sixties, you know, guy is
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: running a business, you know, he's running space. He's supposedly
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: doing these investigations, although I don't know exactly what he
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: was investigating, or he was having other people do his
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: work for him, you know what I'm saying, Because there
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: seemed to be a lot of investigators claimed to have
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: worked for him, you know, in that time period, many
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: of them in fact, including like Jack Martin. And I
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: was actually going through a file today and I found
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: a bunch of old newspaper clippings and it was during
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: the time of the Yearrison investigation, and this newspaper was
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: interviewing Jack Martin's wife at her house. And this is
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: a time when Jack Martin had he fled to Houston
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: for something and then he'd come back and said that
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: he was going in hiding because he was scared for
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: his life. And so they were interviewing his wife and
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: they talked, you know, they were asking her questions about things,
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: and then whoever was writing their article made the comment
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: in passing that in Jack Martin's house he has a
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: signed picture of Guy Banister, like a framed signed picture,
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: And which makes sense because even in the police report
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: from you know, the pistol whipping, you know, he was
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: very complimentary towards Guy and thought of him like a
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: father figure basically, and didn't want to press charges. He's like,
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: you know, I can't do that. You know, I can't
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: do that to guy. You know, almost like he held
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: a deep respect or you know, some kind of weird
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: fatherly love type thing for him because of how much
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: Guy had helped him out throughout the years. So I
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: thought that was pretty cool, you know, to come across.
• 38:27
  Speaker 5: That and that that's actually one of the situations that
• 38:32
  Speaker 5: I questioned quite a bit. And I here's my take
• 38:36
  Speaker 5: on that fatherly the I can't, you know, prosecute guy.
• 38:39
  Speaker 5: He's like a father to me. Before the pistol whipping,
• 38:43
  Speaker 5: Guy had been telling people in the office to stay
• 38:46
  Speaker 5: away from Martin for weeks before the pistol whipping because
• 38:50
  Speaker 5: he was a dangerous guy. And that was in I
• 38:54
  Speaker 5: think I found that in the Warren Commission records. It
• 38:56
  Speaker 5: was either Warren Commission or HSA. I can't remember which.
• 38:59
  Speaker 5: Oh no, it might have been even Garrison. I can't remember.
• 39:02
  Speaker 5: All the in my head picturing all these documents, they
• 39:06
  Speaker 5: all start to look the same, and then then I
• 39:08
  Speaker 5: can't remember. It was the first set I looked at,
• 39:12
  Speaker 5: So it must be the Garrison Commission because it was
• 39:13
  Speaker 5: the first set I looked at where Guy had gone
• 39:17
  Speaker 5: around and said, hey, you know, don't mess around with
• 39:18
  Speaker 5: Jack Martin. Especially. It seems like the women in the
• 39:20
  Speaker 5: office he was warning about Martin. Martin was a cagey
• 39:30
  Speaker 5: kind of guy, and I think the like he was
• 39:35
  Speaker 5: like a father and to me comments may have all
• 39:38
  Speaker 5: It's absolutely plausible that they were that close, absolutely plausible,
• 39:42
  Speaker 5: But in the in the light of the fact that
• 39:44
  Speaker 5: he was warning people to stay away from Martin, it
• 39:47
  Speaker 5: makes me think that that was a little bit more complex.
• 39:51
  Speaker 5: I also think it's possible that Martin said that he
• 39:53
  Speaker 5: was like a father to me comments to get the
• 39:56
  Speaker 5: police to back off from investigating out of concern of
• 40:01
  Speaker 5: them finding something else out that was he was trying
• 40:04
  Speaker 5: to hide. That said, the Garrison Commission is I think
• 40:11
  Speaker 5: probably the least reliable of all the commissions because of
• 40:15
  Speaker 5: the number of witnesses who either knowingly lied Garrisons or
• 40:19
  Speaker 5: when Garrison himself lied, or when he included shaky testimony
• 40:27
  Speaker 5: to prop up the case. So it's it's hard to
• 40:30
  Speaker 5: make any sort of determinations off of the Garrison Commission.
• 40:34
  Speaker 5: It's kind of fruit of the poison tree, that's true,
• 40:38
  Speaker 5: m hm.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: And and Martin of course had his issues with alcohol
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: as well.
• 40:43
  Speaker 5: Absolutely, and he he was known around town as being
• 40:47
  Speaker 5: really annoying and talking a lot yes and being talking
• 40:52
  Speaker 5: a lot of shit, and he get Jerson makes a
• 41:00
  Speaker 5: big deal out of Martin being desperately afraid, and he
• 41:06
  Speaker 5: frames it as he's afraid that somebody's going to take
• 41:08
  Speaker 5: him out because of what he knows. Is how Garrison
• 41:11
  Speaker 5: framed it. I find it entirely plausible that Martin was afraid,
• 41:19
  Speaker 5: but it doesn't necessarily mean that he was involved it.
• 41:22
  Speaker 5: It could be of the eight hundred other people he
• 41:24
  Speaker 5: pissed off that week, you know, and so it is
• 41:29
  Speaker 5: not really evidence of involvement in the conspiracy per se.
• 41:32
  Speaker 5: It's evidence that he's kind of a jerk, makes everybody mad.
• 41:37
  Speaker 5: And he also was into stuff that he shouldn't have
• 41:39
  Speaker 5: been into, like guy Guy was also into stuff he
• 41:42
  Speaker 5: shouldn't have been into, and both of those things can
• 41:46
  Speaker 5: have make people go after you for reasons other than JFK.
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, was it. I mean it's interesting because, you know,
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: the day after this Pistol Wimbian incident, which is you know,
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: the day of the assassination, the day after, you have
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: Jack Martin going uh to to the cops and to
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: the FBI and and basically dropping the dime on David
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: Ferry and telling them how he thinks that he was
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: involved in the ferry, New Oswald, and that's how all
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: this crazy stuff got started. You know. Of course, it
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: wasn't until three or four years later that Garrison, you know,
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: went to it went about investigating all this stuff. And
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: I think I think I told you too when we
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: talked earlier that had guy banished been alive during the
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: Garrison investigation, that you know, things could be dramatically different.
• 42:41
  Speaker 5: Very different. I agree, I agree, And Dad remembers guy
• 42:47
  Speaker 5: having dirt on Garrison.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: Now he had dirt on everybody in the United States,
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: he did.
• 42:54
  Speaker 5: And now here's there's a big butt in there. And
• 42:58
  Speaker 5: I always say, hey, guys, there's a big butt in
• 43:00
  Speaker 5: the middle of class, and then the kids going so
• 43:03
  Speaker 5: and I have to watch myself. Is impossible to not
• 43:06
  Speaker 5: say double on Taunders in front of middle school school students.
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
• 43:10
  Speaker 5: So the giant butt that's in there is that?
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: That's what she said?
• 43:17
  Speaker 5: Yeah, oh yeah, there you go. See you can do it.
• 43:21
  Speaker 5: You can keep up with middle schoolers. I got burned
• 43:24
  Speaker 5: today bad by one of my alto's. But anyway, what
• 43:28
  Speaker 5: was the question It was about eighty HD, I don't remember.
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: I was thinking if if Banister was still alive and
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: started his investigation.
• 43:37
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so the thing is like, and this is what
• 43:43
  Speaker 5: really struck me when I was researching the n OPD episode.
• 43:49
  Speaker 5: Even a lot of folks perceived Guy being hired by
• 43:52
  Speaker 5: the n OPD as a vanity sort of hiring to
• 43:56
  Speaker 5: try to make it look like they were trying to
• 43:58
  Speaker 5: do something about the corruption, but not really do anything
• 44:01
  Speaker 5: about it, so everybody could keep the status quo. And
• 44:03
  Speaker 5: we're quite surprised when he got in there like a
• 44:06
  Speaker 5: pit bull and he wouldn't let it go, and he
• 44:08
  Speaker 5: wouldn't let it go, and he wouldn't let it go.
• 44:10
  Speaker 5: And because guy could never in his entire freaking life
• 44:13
  Speaker 5: read a room or do anything that would be more
• 44:16
  Speaker 5: politically expedient to get something done in anything other than
• 44:20
  Speaker 5: just telling somebody they're an asshole or telling somebody you're corrupt.
• 44:24
  Speaker 5: He was very direct and he kind of dug his
• 44:27
  Speaker 5: own grave in the NPD in that respect because he
• 44:31
  Speaker 5: made the wrong people mad. And so when it comes
• 44:36
  Speaker 5: to my dad remembering Guy having dirt on Garrison, I
• 44:41
  Speaker 5: do think it's entirely possible that he's switched the names
• 44:44
  Speaker 5: in his head, because it's very well documented that he
• 44:47
  Speaker 5: had dirt on Morrison, the mayor. The mayor was crooked
• 44:53
  Speaker 5: as the day was long, and so I do think
• 44:57
  Speaker 5: it's plausible that it wasn't about Garrison, it about Morrison.
• 45:00
  Speaker 5: Now that said Garrison was in this entire milieu of
• 45:05
  Speaker 5: is that a milliu that's the thing, right of all
• 45:08
  Speaker 5: of these Yes, see, I'm fancy and I'm fitting in, yes,
• 45:20
  Speaker 5: but they Garrison is not only surviving but thriving in
• 45:25
  Speaker 5: this milieu of corruption. And even Garrison supporters that I've
• 45:32
  Speaker 5: talked to have said that they wouldn't be surprised if
• 45:35
  Speaker 5: he was also on the take, because that's kind of
• 45:37
  Speaker 5: how it was down there. And now now you take
• 45:42
  Speaker 5: that kind of level of corruption and you take somebody
• 45:46
  Speaker 5: as hard knows this guy and you throw it in there,
• 45:48
  Speaker 5: it's like throwing gas and a fire. Everybody's going to
• 45:52
  Speaker 5: scorch their eyebrows off, and like nothing really positive is
• 45:55
  Speaker 5: going to come out of it because he just made
• 45:57
  Speaker 5: it all explode.
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: And that.
• 46:02
  Speaker 5: Again is shortly after he had the stroke. He wasn't
• 46:04
  Speaker 5: exactly very good at controlling his mouth beforehand, and he
• 46:08
  Speaker 5: was extra not good at it after the stroke, and
• 46:11
  Speaker 5: so it was just kind of doomed to fail. But
• 46:14
  Speaker 5: I think if Guy had been alive during the Garrison commission,
• 46:18
  Speaker 5: he would have had the receipts to hit back.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: Like Garrison and the NPD and the FBI, you know,
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: they just kind of blind eyed certain things like carlosmore
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: as giant mafia guys right down the road, this tomato salesman,
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: you know, and none of them, you know. Well, I
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: mean at the time, you know, the FBI wasn't going
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: after the mafia anyway. But right for Garrison or the
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: NPD to turn a blind eye to what's going on
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: in their own perish tells you a whole lot.
• 46:54
  Speaker 5: Agreed. I agree, And I think it's terribly convenient that
• 46:58
  Speaker 5: Garrison made the center of the conspiracy Cymody was dead.
• 47:04
  Speaker 5: I think that's terribly convenient. Now that said, sometimes there's
• 47:08
  Speaker 5: smoke because there is actual fire, it just might not
• 47:10
  Speaker 5: be the fire that you're thinking it is. So Guy
• 47:14
  Speaker 5: was into things in New Orleans. He told he told
• 47:16
  Speaker 5: Dad about it. I mean, he was very open about
• 47:18
  Speaker 5: the fact he was trying to help overthrow Castro. The
• 47:23
  Speaker 5: training scene at Lake Pontretrain in the movie where he
• 47:27
  Speaker 5: was training the expats that happened, and he was. So
• 47:32
  Speaker 5: here's what's interesting. Dad remembers him Guy telling him he
• 47:37
  Speaker 5: was doing that at Pontre Train. Dad remembers that, but
• 47:40
  Speaker 5: it was before the Bay of Picts, not after the
• 47:47
  Speaker 5: That's what Dad. The best of Dad's memory was. Guy
• 47:51
  Speaker 5: was very open about how much he hated Castro. Of course,
• 47:53
  Speaker 5: he was a rabbit anti communist, and I got a
• 47:58
  Speaker 5: little window into what his thinking was on that in
• 48:00
  Speaker 5: that he told he was handing out leaflets a lot
• 48:04
  Speaker 5: like Oswald was, but he was handing out leaflets. I
• 48:07
  Speaker 5: believe it was at Louisiana State University, but I could
• 48:11
  Speaker 5: be wrong about that, in which his purpose behind going
• 48:17
  Speaker 5: after Castro was not only the communist angle, but he
• 48:21
  Speaker 5: felt he was handing out leaflets where it was showing
• 48:24
  Speaker 5: what was happening to kids in Cuba at the time,
• 48:27
  Speaker 5: and so Guy thought. I do think Guy genuinely thought
• 48:31
  Speaker 5: he was trying to free and oppress people. And that's
• 48:37
  Speaker 5: to the best of what he's what I've read, what
• 48:40
  Speaker 5: Dad has told me, what he's told of the family,
• 48:43
  Speaker 5: I really do think Guy was genuinely trying to free
• 48:46
  Speaker 5: the Cubans. Now, my brother likes to point out a
• 48:54
  Speaker 5: lot of the family. Most of the family leans away
• 48:56
  Speaker 5: from him having actually been involved in the Kennedy assassination.
• 48:59
  Speaker 5: All all of us are like, yeah, he was totally
• 49:01
  Speaker 5: involved in the Cuban stuff. No, yeah, that's not even
• 49:03
  Speaker 5: a question.
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: But.
• 49:09
  Speaker 5: It becomes it's it's kind of a sword that cuts
• 49:11
  Speaker 5: both ways. He was so dedicated to the idea of
• 49:17
  Speaker 5: the place and the sanctity of government along the lines
• 49:21
  Speaker 5: of the rule of law is the rule of law,
• 49:25
  Speaker 5: and that is the guy that would have absolutely been
• 49:27
  Speaker 5: in the driver's seat before the stroke. But my brother
• 49:32
  Speaker 5: also likes to point out he said, well, you know,
• 49:35
  Speaker 5: he could have felt that Kennedy had so violated his
• 49:39
  Speaker 5: oath of office through the Bay because of the Bay
• 49:42
  Speaker 5: of Pigs. Guy had never been a fan, but the
• 49:44
  Speaker 5: Bay of Pigs, he felt like he left the people
• 49:47
  Speaker 5: that he had worked with out to dry to be
• 49:49
  Speaker 5: taken by the Cubans. And so after the Bay of Pigs,
• 49:54
  Speaker 5: my brother likes to point out that he's like, what
• 49:55
  Speaker 5: if he felt like he had no other choice?
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: See this, and he's right in the middle of a
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: hot bed in New Orleans with all these Cuban exiles
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: that are all over the place. In the same building
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: as him, all over the neighborhood, you know, and and
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: and David Ferry. You know, oh my lord. Immediately, you know,
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: people go to the JFK movie, but you got to
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: get the Joe Pesci version of that guy out of
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: your brain because you actually, seriously I heard an interview.
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: It was in Garrison's office. They were interviewing David Ferry,
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: and he sounds nothing like Joe Pesci, you know what
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: I mean. He doesn't sound like effeminate or anything like that.
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: No deep voice, very like, very intelligent.
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: Very authoritative. Yeah, yeah, you know, and this guy was
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: you know, it's he just sounds like the type of
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: guy who could you know, sway you're thinking, like he
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: was a motivator type of guy. And you know, these
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: guys are all around Banister constantly in his office, you know,
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: so and they're always talking about things you hear, you know,
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: you read these interviews like I've been interviewed with David Lewis,
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: you know, who kind of works for a Banister off
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: and on, you know, and he talks all the time
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: that you know about what he saw, what he saw.
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: You come into office and Ferry would be in there
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: and Carlos would be in there and Sergio Kostas Smith
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: would be in there, and they'd be talking, and as
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: soon as he walks in the room, they shut up
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: and shut the door, you know, and it's just, you know,
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: you hear all these things that're like, I think there's
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: like thirteen witnesses who claim to have seen Oswald or
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: in and around Banister's office in the summer of sixty three.
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: That's a lot of eyewitnesses. I can understand one or two,
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: you know, maybe Okay, you know, there's a lot of
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: a lot of testimony who puts Oswald in his immediate vicinity,
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: including conversations that they had on Canal Street out out
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: in front of his office. You know, he was seen
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: talking to Banstard. This guy William Guldett, who was a
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: CIA asset, said he saw him talking twice in deep conversation.
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: You know. It's just and everything that you know, when
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: you when you think about what Oswald was doing down there. Okay,
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: so he goes into a Cuban store and he says,
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: you know, hey, we're on you. I'm on your side.
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: If you you know, I have this handbook. You know,
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: I'm trained to the gorilla fighting. I can help train
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: your Cuban exiles, you know, to fight against Castro. And
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: then the next day he sees him on the street
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: handing out pro Castro literature, you know, which is when
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: Oswald got arrested and all that. It just seems to
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: me like Oswald was playing some kind of a game
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: down there, or I know a lot of these things,
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: you know. Okay, so you set up this fake pair
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: of play for Cuba Committee and you try to recruit
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: people to join, you know, the organization, and then you
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: can immediately out there as communist or comedy lovers, and
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: you know, your name goes in the file. You know,
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: you're now a communist. Stuff like that. And there's you know,
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: plenty of allegations that he was an FBI informant when
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: he was in New Orleans and things of this nature.
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: It just gets it just gets so convlievered. What do
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: you think about the allegations of Oswald being in and
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: around Banisher's office back then?
• 53:46
  Speaker 5: So I have okay, and I mentioned this to Trouble
• 53:49
  Speaker 5: being a phone call, but what I would like to
• 53:57
  Speaker 5: reintroduce skepticism to the JFK Research Committee because one of
• 54:04
  Speaker 5: let me give you an example. So like, let's say
• 54:06
  Speaker 5: we talked earlier about guy uncle Ross rather being kidnapped. Right,
• 54:12
  Speaker 5: So if you were using kind of a conspiratorial thinking,
• 54:16
  Speaker 5: you could very easily say the following, which would be,
• 54:19
  Speaker 5: you mean to tell me that just after Guy Banister
• 54:22
  Speaker 5: is hired by the FBI that his brother was kidnapped.
• 54:26
  Speaker 5: That does that? See? You know, like you can connect
• 54:28
  Speaker 5: these things and make it sound really really sketchy. Same
• 54:30
  Speaker 5: deal with that memo. That's why that memo got me.
• 54:33
  Speaker 5: It looked really sketchy right toward the end of his career,
• 54:35
  Speaker 5: and then suddenly he quits looked really sketchy, probably just
• 54:40
  Speaker 5: maybe related, maybe not, but not nearly as scary as
• 54:42
  Speaker 5: it looked because of the names that were on that memo.
• 54:47
  Speaker 5: It was Hubert Humphrey and Orville Freeman, who Freeman was
• 54:50
  Speaker 5: the Secretary of Agriculture under Kennedy, and then of course
• 54:55
  Speaker 5: Humphrey was a future vice president. So having those two
• 54:58
  Speaker 5: names on a memo right at the end of his
• 55:00
  Speaker 5: career looked really, really sketchy. So it is one of
• 55:06
  Speaker 5: the things. And if it was author, oh here he
• 55:09
  Speaker 5: is right here, I have them right here. John McAdams
• 55:13
  Speaker 5: I always call him dug on accident. But one of
• 55:16
  Speaker 5: the things he likes to point out, and I won't
• 55:19
  Speaker 5: I don't want to get you in trouble with the
• 55:20
  Speaker 5: copyright police, so I won't read it aloud. But he
• 55:23
  Speaker 5: said that in a lot of conspiracy theories that you
• 55:27
  Speaker 5: can make a towering pile of evidence that is rather shaky,
• 55:32
  Speaker 5: that one one blow and it just goes all comes
• 55:35
  Speaker 5: tumbling down. And my my other degree, I teach music,
• 55:40
  Speaker 5: but my other degree is in sociology anthropology, and I
• 55:45
  Speaker 5: find conspiracy theorists. I study a lot of cults. It
• 55:49
  Speaker 5: was always my students when I was teaching high school sociology.
• 55:51
  Speaker 5: It was their favorite unit was to do cults, and
• 55:54
  Speaker 5: they could do either political cults or religious call and
• 56:00
  Speaker 5: a lot of those religious cults were doomsday cults. There
• 56:02
  Speaker 5: was actually one kid found an actor's cult in Western Montana. Yeah,
• 56:08
  Speaker 5: he lived right next door to it. So he did
• 56:11
  Speaker 5: presentation on the actor's cult where these actors came in
• 56:14
  Speaker 5: and paid a bunch of money and for acting classes
• 56:16
  Speaker 5: and then got wound up using being used for free
• 56:19
  Speaker 5: labor to build this camp. But when you look at
• 56:24
  Speaker 5: conspiracy theories, and I the one that always pops to
• 56:26
  Speaker 5: mind is is Koresh in Waco. Koresh was the master
• 56:33
  Speaker 5: of making things appear to be related. So what he
• 56:36
  Speaker 5: did is he had this what he would say is
• 56:40
  Speaker 5: is he would tell all of his followers, like in
• 56:43
  Speaker 5: this very highly biblical language, so they're going to come
• 56:46
  Speaker 5: and fire, and you know, they will be tested by
• 56:48
  Speaker 5: fire and all this other stuff. And then in the
• 56:50
  Speaker 5: background he's stockpiling illegal weapons, and so he was creating
• 56:56
  Speaker 5: the situation. He was actively creating the situation that led
• 56:59
  Speaker 5: to the the Wiccoe. Yes, he was manifesting. And then
• 57:07
  Speaker 5: he got to die as a martyr, and I think
• 57:10
  Speaker 5: he probably hoped that he would come out of that
• 57:13
  Speaker 5: alive so that he can He was intensely narcissistic, but
• 57:20
  Speaker 5: it it made him a martyr. It lionized him in
• 57:24
  Speaker 5: a way that he did not deserve. He gave incredibility
• 57:26
  Speaker 5: he did not deserve. And my concern when I'm looking
• 57:31
  Speaker 5: at all of this stuff, especially like the stuff in
• 57:33
  Speaker 5: New Orleans, because a lot of it was heavily investigated
• 57:36
  Speaker 5: by Garrison, is you got people lie. People lie all
• 57:41
  Speaker 5: the time, or they're mistaken, and for lots of reasons.
• 57:44
  Speaker 5: Sometimes they want to be relevant. They want to be
• 57:47
  Speaker 5: They want to be the one that can say, well,
• 57:50
  Speaker 5: I was there when blah blah blah happened. You know,
• 57:52
  Speaker 5: they want to be relevant. They are doing something they
• 57:58
  Speaker 5: shouldn't be doing and are trying to distract from that.
• 58:01
  Speaker 5: You can lie about X because you're doing why. It's
• 58:05
  Speaker 5: not necessarily that you're doing X and you're lying about X.
• 58:09
  Speaker 5: It can be two different things that you're lying about.
• 58:13
  Speaker 5: One of the really well documented issues, like with Delphine Roberts,
• 58:17
  Speaker 5: is she changed her story three times each commissioned. The
• 58:21
  Speaker 5: story got a little more grand and by the time
• 58:24
  Speaker 5: she got to the Anthony Summers book it was even
• 58:27
  Speaker 5: more over the top. And she was paid by Summers,
• 58:30
  Speaker 5: and actually Summers got into a really tight spot. Her
• 58:33
  Speaker 5: attorney pulled a gun on him and it was, yeah,
• 58:37
  Speaker 5: it was. It was really cooky. And McAdams was really
• 58:43
  Speaker 5: good at documenting a lot of these problems. So did Posner,
• 58:45
  Speaker 5: And I know that posner is a dirty word in
• 58:47
  Speaker 5: a lot of communities. Posner's mistake is leaving stuff out.
• 58:54
  Speaker 5: In my opinion, there was things he was either unaware
• 58:57
  Speaker 5: of or didn't include, But the way in which he
• 59:00
  Speaker 5: approached approached was meticulous, So you could definitely attack Posner's
• 59:05
  Speaker 5: findings basically because he was ignorant of a lot of things.
• 59:09
  Speaker 5: But the way he approached it was he tried to
• 59:11
  Speaker 5: be very methodical. So when it comes down to was
• 59:17
  Speaker 5: guy involved and like that whole all everybody that's coming
• 59:23
  Speaker 5: in and out of five point thirty one Lafayette, it's
• 59:29
  Speaker 5: very difficult to discern if the conspiracy was the Cuban
• 59:33
  Speaker 5: stuff where he was trying to help overthrow Castro legitimately,
• 59:37
  Speaker 5: if it was CIA, and that is something I'm still
• 59:43
  Speaker 5: wrestling with because the CIA put out a document where
• 59:45
  Speaker 5: they disavowed all knowledge or like they said, we never
• 59:47
  Speaker 5: worked with and we considered it, but his his detective
• 59:50
  Speaker 5: agency was failing and we didn't want to, you know,
• 59:52
  Speaker 5: mess with that. I don't believe a darn thing that
• 59:55
  Speaker 5: the CIA said.
• 59:59
  Speaker 4: They have.
• 59:59
  Speaker 5: The are probably I did an interview with a gentleman
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 5: who's helping with the lawsuit against the CIA, and he
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 5: felt that the CIA and this and the Secret Service
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 5: were probably the most egregious on the destruction of documents
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 5: in trying to hide things. So I find it very
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 5: hard to believe that the CIA guy was not involved
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 5: with CIA, because we do know he was involved with
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 5: the BA pigs, so he had some sort of relationship.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 5: It had to have it had to have been there.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 3: I fo C.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: Headquarters in New Orleans, like right across the.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 5: Street from that was Oh, and I I thought, but
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 5: maybe I'm wrong.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: I thought they were all in like one building.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 4: M h.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: And yeah.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 5: And the sheer number. And here's what makes me question.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 5: I'm explaining your question in a very roundabout way, and
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 5: I apologize. The sheer number of people who either claim
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 5: to have been CIA or there's a document on them
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 5: in that area is absurd. It almost passed. This is
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 5: the point of believability. Now that said, the CIA at
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 5: the time was also out of control, so who knows,
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 5: maybe they did plant that many people. And also being
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 5: having a relationship with the CIA doesn't mean you're an operative,
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 5: doesn't mean you're trained, doesn't mean that I actually I
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 5: actually took care when I was when I was younger,
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 5: I was a CNA at a nursing home and we
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 5: had to see an x CIA agent in the nursing home,
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 5: and even through her dementia, she not a word. She
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 5: thought everything was a training exercise. So when we got
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 5: her up for breakfast, it was long lines of Oh,
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 5: what's what's the exercise today? But she said nothing, absolutely nothing.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 5: It was very interesting, But why.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: They used their assets to do the dirty work? Right,
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: because it can't be tied back to them directly. You
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: know absolutely that she claim for the CIA probably were indirectly,
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: but you'll never be able to prove it one way
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: or the other.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 5: Well now either, you know that's and that's exactly what
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 5: when another person I've interviewed pointed out is he's a
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 5: guy might have been working for them and not realize
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 5: he's working with them. And here's the really interesting thing.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 5: And I think we, I think JFK researchers need to
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 5: take a really close look at this because I found
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 5: this information really rather easily just on a web search.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 5: And I think the author, if I remember correctly, was
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 5: also McAdams before he passed away in twenty twenty one,
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 5: I think. But he had a blog on all of
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 5: his research for years. Love yeah, yeah, And so the
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 5: thing was that he noticed everybody seems to know about
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 5: the fact that men from the government came and took
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 5: guy's files out of five point thirty one Lafayette after
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 5: he died, because Mary reported that. Yet Mary did what
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 5: often wasn't noticed is that years later when she was
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 5: asked about it again, she was not super sure if
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 5: it was FBI or CIA or she said, just guys
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 5: from the government. She's like, I didn't check badges. It
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 5: could have been the CIA that has his files, and
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 5: I personally think that's probably likely, personally because the FBI
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 5: how they do their files. My my FBI friend explained
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 5: a lot of this to me. He was a specialist
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 5: with the files.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 4: And.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 5: If guys stuff from his office had been seized by
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 5: the FBI, it would have been part of the files
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 5: that were released by the FBI in the jfk assassination files.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 5: Now there's not all of the files have been released there.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 5: That's what that lawsuit is about, is to get the
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 5: final bits of files released. But about I think ninety
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 5: nine percent of them are out guys files, and the
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 5: things ceased from his office would have been in that release,
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 5: unless it's in that less little bit that they're holding
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 5: back because it's something really embarrassing. But I think it's
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 5: far more likely that it was seized by the CIA.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 5: That's my personal opinion just based on just inference, not
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 5: like heart evidence, but especially if.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: It was dealing with Cubans or Cuban exiles, because they,
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: you know, come to find out years later, you know,
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: they're funding these anti cast Cuban groups, you know, to
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: the tune of like fifty grand a month for you know,
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: things like the dri that Carlos Bringer was involved in,
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: you know, and of course all that didn't come out
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: until way way later.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 5: But well, and and that actually, I'm glad you brought
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 5: up bringa because something really really struck me with him
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 5: with Oswald. So I'm coming out all this stuff, like
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 5: I said, late in life. I didn't study all this
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 5: growing up, but I'm coming in it with twenty years
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 5: of teaching experience, and I cannot diagnose like learning disability,
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 5: these developmental delays, that kind of stuff. I cannot diagnose that. However,
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 5: I've seen it a lot, and I kind of know
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 5: what it looks like. And when you look at Carlos
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 5: Spring's account of Oswald approaching him, he just walks in
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 5: like in front of God and everybody, not knowing anybody.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 5: He said, Hey, do you want me to blow up
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 5: the Huey Long Bridge? Just walks up and says that
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 5: to me, you cannot tell me that a CIA agent
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 5: would do that in front of God and everybody. Number one,
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 5: if he was like so deep state in the CIA,
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 5: that is so clumsy. Number one. And number two, Brigay
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 5: was taken aback the way he reported it. Now you
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 5: could make the argument that maybe Bringay is not being
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 5: honest about it either. I mean you could absolutely make
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 5: that argument, because again, if all this was CIA involved,
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 5: I don't trust a word of it. But even Bringa
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 5: is kind of like, sir, this is a Wendy's we
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 5: don't do that here.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 3: So but it.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 5: So you have Oswald, who has struggled with mental health
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 5: since he was very young. His mother reported him has
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 5: reported that he was very difficult as a child, and
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 5: what difficult means, I don't know what that looks like.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: But then of course he coming from her, she had
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: several problems as.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 5: Well, exactly. So yeah, so then you got somebody who
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 5: is from a young age struggling, and I had a
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 5: person make the claim to me that Oswald's mental health
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 5: issues as an adult were likely to do all the brainwashing.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 5: It's like, no, I don't agree, because he had troubles
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 5: from the time he was young. So if you're looking
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 5: at a developmental issue that's present from the time he
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 5: was young, that could be trauma. Because again, like you said,
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 5: the mom is something else her on her own, you
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 5: got trauma. To me, this reads like autism.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna say, he's probably on the spectrum somewhere.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 5: I have a strong and this is again personal opinion,
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 5: and I can't and I know I've never obviously never
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 5: met Oswald. I mean, I'm not a psychologist, but again
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 5: I'm a teacher, and I see this stuff all the time.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 5: He reads autistic to me, and that does not mean
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 5: that people who are autistic are violent. That is not
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 5: what that means. What that means to me is that
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 5: you've got this let's say he was. Let's let's just
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 5: say he was, and then you add on all this
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 5: complex trauma from growing up with them mother and being
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 5: a band in a couple times, if I remember correctly,
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 5: she put him into care.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: Was it?
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: You know, he's going on different schools.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 5: But yeah, and as as a teacher, I've seen that
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 5: it's deeply traumatic, deeply traumatic.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: And moving all the time.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 5: And Posner's book describes how he would just sit and
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 5: rack his the rifle the man carcandle open shut, open shut,
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 5: open shut, just over and over and over hours. And
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 5: there was an assessment done of him, like some psychologists
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 5: in the sixties got together and kind of tried to
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 5: kind of spitball what was going on with him mentally.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 5: But so, the biggest thing to me that says that
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 5: there was a conspiracy was the sheer amount of cover
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 5: up that happened.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 5: But the thing, the thing I cannot get over is
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 5: I don't buy that somebody is unhealthy as Oswald was
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 5: an act of like CIA agent. He could have been
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 5: maybe a useful idiot maybe. And I and again I'm
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 5: not saying that people with autism or idiots. I'm using
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 5: that colloquial phrase of a useful idiot just clarity, because
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 5: I have a lot of people in my in my
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 5: life who have autism. I have a lot of people
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 5: that I care very deeply about that have autism.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: And he might have been really good at learning and
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: writing Russian, right exactly, Hey, let's use this.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 5: And you've got special happened, Yeah, you've got these special interests.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 5: There's just a lot of things that to me point
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 5: at it. But also, and here's the caveat, And I
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 5: always try to remain objective. I am looking at Oswald's
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 5: behavior through my own filters, and I know that, and
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 5: I could definitely be wrong. But if I had somebody
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 5: in my life exhibiting those behaviors, I would be taking
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 5: them for an assessment, if it was my child, if
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 5: it was you know so. And again, this is not
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 5: against anybody in the autism community. It has zero Having
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 5: autism does not mean that you'll become a criminal. That's
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 5: not what that means. I do think that it might
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 5: have changed how I say it, because I think it
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 5: might have changed how Oswald looked through looked at the world.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 5: There was a yeah, and there was the also the
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 5: situation down in not New Mexico, sorry Mexico, where he
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 5: was turned away at the Cuban embassy and he ran
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 5: out in tears in his emotions were so out of control.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 5: He was sobbing publicly, and then the embassy had to
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 5: I don't remember if it was the embassy or if
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 5: it was it was the Russian embassy. Yeah, they were
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 5: having a game and he pulled a gun and they
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 5: had to cancel the game. Yeah, so this is not
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 5: somebody who screams to me CIA agent. These are not subtle.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 5: There was something going on with Oswald and it had
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 5: at the very least it was trauma. At the very
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 5: least it was the trauma how he grew up and
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 5: that does And I had another person pushback with me
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 5: on mental health issues like when I brought them up,
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 5: and it's like, I'm not trying to excuse it. I
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 5: don't think that he shouldn't be held accountable. Let's say
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 5: that he wasn't killed by Jack Ruby. He absolutely should
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 5: have been held accountable. I'm not trying for anyone to
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 5: escape accountability. What I do my brain, where my brain
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 5: always goes, is like how can we prevent this in
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 5: the future, and about understanding what happened and what what
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 5: what broke down?
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: And it was a lot. You know, when you're talking
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: about how the Dallas police reacted and treated everything right
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: after the assassination, they really screwed up, right they.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 5: Yeah, everybody you.
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: Know, and the FBI. You know, you come to find
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: out that that that Hoover reprimanded like twenty five agents
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: from the top down to the local field office. He
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: sent Hosty to wherever Kansas City or wherever he sent him,
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: you know, purgatory. And you know, with everything that the
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: CIA was into, they didn't want that to come out.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: And the FBI, like you said, Hoover, always wanted to
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: look like they could do no wrong, Like they were superagents.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 5: Obsessed with with the image, absolutely obsessed.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: With Yeah, like even in even in movies, in Hollywood movies,
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: the FBI couldn't be portrayed ever getting shot. They always
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: had to get their man or else they couldn't, you know,
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: use the FBI in the movie type of thing. But yeah,
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: I mean a lot of these agencies, like you said,
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: you know, the CIA, the FBI, the Dallas Police, they
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: all made huge mistakes and they all had a lot
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: of things to cover up. Doesn't necessarily mean that they
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: were involved in the assassination per se. But if investigating
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: the assassination is going to open up all these Pandora's
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: boxes and expose all of their shortcomings and things that
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: they don't want public, then yeah, they're going to take
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: steps to you know, put a little on things. S
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: if it be shutting this guy up over here or
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: clamping this down over there, you know, because I'm sure
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: you've you know, heard about the incredible witness list, you know,
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: of people these early deaths of people surrounded, but the
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: you know, the Canade assassination and guy banisters on it.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: You know, you know, it's just it's insane. I don't
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: think Oswal was a CIAgent either. I don't think he
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: was really knowing what he was doing. I as actually
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: just we just did an episode on looking at his
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: early discharge from the Marine Corps, you know, and they
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: let him out early. He goes home to his mother,
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: supposedly to help her. He's there for three days, and
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: then he goes to New Orleans hops on a freighter
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: and he's off to Europe through Helsinki and he defects
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: the Russia.
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: That to me seems like it's some kind of an
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 2: orchestrated thing, like he just don't suddenly decide to quit
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: the Marines and three days later you're off on a
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: boat to Europe to you know, defect to Russia without
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: some kind of a plan. But I could be.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 5: Wrong, you know, and I kind of Again, that's another
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 5: situation where this cut both ways. You could say that
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 5: Oswald was so impulsive and out of control that he
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 5: was just you know, and they're in that situation. It's
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 5: often made a big deal about where it gets pointed out, well,
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 5: you know, the State Department paid for him to come home. Well,
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 5: at the time, the State Department paid for any American
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 5: citizen who was trying to get back home that got
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 5: stranded to come home.
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so.
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 5: I just I get really well and yeah, and it's
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 5: and that's the other thing that strikes me about Oswald
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 5: is that, well he was in the Soviet Union for
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 5: a while it was this is the best thing ever.
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 5: Capitalism sucks, blah blah blah, and then he realized that,
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 5: you know, this kind of sucks, and then he comes
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 5: home and then then he's kind of the grass is
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 5: always greener for Oswald. Nothing was ever good enough for Oswald. Nothing,
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 5: nothing was ever hit Oswald's fault, like his situation, like
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 5: with the debt and their financial strains that they were having.
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 5: Nothing was ever his fault. He was viciously abusive to Marina,
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 5: And to me, this speaks a lot more to someone
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 5: really struggling over someone who has been recruited to the
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 5: CIA that just I just I can't quite get past that.
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 5: And but again, like I'm fairly certain that guy was
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 5: in on this with the CIA, at least on the
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 5: Bay of Pigs, and then they disabout disavow every like
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 5: all knowledge of ever having worked with him. So again,
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 5: how much of this stuff about the CIA is them
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 5: trying to sew confusion? Who knows the If you've ever
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 5: read the Trailer Destruction series by by Chad Nagel, it's egregious.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 5: He documented the worst of the destruction of evidence by
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 5: the CIA, and some by this secret Service, and some
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 5: by you know, some other folks, but mainly the CIA,
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 5: and it is positively egregious how much has been destroyed.
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 5: So there's got to be something they're hiding. We'll probably
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 5: really never know what it is. The remaining documents that
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 5: have not been released have to be I actually agree
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 5: with the statement. I believe Robert F. Kennedy said this,
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 5: but I could be wrong, so please don't quote me
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 5: too hard when which he said, at this point, we're
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 5: so far past the assassination that the documents that they're withholding,
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 5: there's something has to be very deeply embarrassing to the
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 5: agency at this point, because he finds it highly doubtful that.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: That well nobody's still alive from.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly, there's everyone's dead. Everyone's dead, and it's there's
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 5: no point in withholding that stuff. So it's got to
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 5: be deeply embarrassing to the agency. Is I kind of
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 5: agree that. I kind of lean toward I think he's right.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: Had that little thing at the Trump at one of
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: Trump's campaign stops where you know, he said, you know
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: he's going to put rfk J you're in charge of
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 2: his assassination committees, and that they're going to get their
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: files released for sure this time. You know, he didn't
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: do it last time when he was president, but he
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: said he was going to do it this time for sure.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 5: Well, and yeah, I find that interesting and I find
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 5: that tantalizing. But I also kind of think, you know,
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 5: they did that same thing with the guy where the uh,
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 5: the guy running against the Morrison for governor said oh,
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 5: by the way, this guy banished your guy. He's really cool.
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 5: He'll be the head of the state police if I'm elected. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 5: I think they're making political Hey, yeah, it's I am conservative.
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 5: I'm not a Trump person myself. I'm not on the
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 5: Trump train. I look at the Huey Long episode and
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 5: then I look at the Trump campaign, And I don't
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 5: think think that Trump has the ability to control all
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 5: three branches of government like Huey Long was able to
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 5: do down in Louisiana. But he's a populist, and I
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 5: just I don't believe what he says when he's talking
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 5: about the g k assassination. I think he's just trying
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 5: to get an election. One.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: Well, my fingers are crossed, the ones, these ones, the
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: toes on my feet, they're crossed too. Yeah, we can
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 2: only hope. I mean, I mean, they got to come
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: out eventually. Over I'm just curious to see what that
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: you know, what they're having or what they're not releasing
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: from what reason.
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 5: It's got to be something kooky, And I I'm with you.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 5: I really want them released. And I hope the lawsuit
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 5: is successful, but that the I haven't gotten a recent
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 5: update on the lawsuit, but they have a lot of
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 5: really high hurdles to clear to be able to suit the.
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think they're going to. I mean, it's
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 2: a noble effort, but I don't think they're going to. Yeah.
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 5: Yeah, if you do want to catch up on what's
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 5: going on with the lawsuit and everything, you can trot
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 5: over to jfkfax dot org. That's led by Jefferson Morley,
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 5: author Jefferson Morley, and he's a really good, really good resource.
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we are familiar with him here. One thing
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: I want to ask, so and one of the episodes
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: you went into like did Guy know Jim Garrison? And
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: one thing I remember from the JFK movie, Uh, and
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: this was when Garrison and a couple of his investigators
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: were in that square where all everyone was around. He goes, oh,
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: Guy Banister, I used to have lunch with him? Yeah,
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: where where did that come from? Garrison? Because I remember
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: one of the episodes you talked about a potential relationship
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: here within the FBI too, Right, Yeahbi, guys, it's not
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: out of the realm possibility that they would have lunch
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: once a year or something like.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 5: That, right, And if they met at conferences or trainings,
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 5: because Garrison was over in Seattle and Guy was in
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 5: Butte and as the crow flies, I mean that's that
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 5: would have been quite the distance apart then, but as
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 5: the offices are set up, that wouldn't have been that
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 5: far apart. So it would be entirely plausible that they
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 5: knew each other. The document that I have is okay,
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 5: and take this as you will. It was on the
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 5: UFO story. Somebody had taken like a screenshot of the
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 5: UFO story from the newspaper in I was at forty seven, Yeah,
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 5: nineteen forty seven, and then superimposed the text saying that
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 5: you know, they knew each other by nineteen forty seven.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 5: That's entirely possible. I don't know for certain, and again
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 5: it's really difficult to tell that if it was true
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 5: or not.
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: So I wonder if that was like one of those
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 2: Japanese balloons that they were sending over here. I don't
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 2: know if I don't know if you've ever heard of that.
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 2: But back then, the Japan.
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I did a whole episode on it.
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I wonder if that's what That's what
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 2: it was.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 5: Oh, the UFO turned out to be a hoax. It
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 5: was a couple of boys were having fun with the locals.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 5: They didn't anticipate it was going to get turned over
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 5: to the army though, and it blew up rather quickly.
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 5: But he did respond to a Japanese bomb up in Kalispell,
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 5: and that one, thankfully, it was not I don't it
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 5: was a Japanese balloon. I shouldn't say bomb. I don't
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 5: think that particularly one was a bomb. Some of them
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 5: were bombs, some of them were weather instruments, some of them,
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 5: you know, they had different purposes. The one did blow
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 5: up near US, near in Thermopolis, Wyoming. I believe there.
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 5: The only deadly bomb was in Oregon. A family was killed,
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 5: and it was absolutely horrific, but they were I think
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 5: they were the only deaths involved, and.
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: They covered it up rightly.
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 5: They weren't. They didn't allow any sort of news release
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 5: about the family dying because they they knew the Japanese
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 5: were monitoring the papers, and so it worked that.
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they got on this windstream specific I think that's
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: where I learned this from you, and that's oh. Yeah,
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: it was thousands of balloons sent by Japan. I had
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: no idea a semi World War two.
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 5: Yeah, three A three hundred of them made landfall. One
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 5: made it as far as Michigan.
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 5: But yeah, they were. There were several that It mostly
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 5: hit the Western United States, as you could imagine.
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: And I was.
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: As part of the FBI or the precursor to what
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: was responsible for tracking them or keeping track of them.
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 5: Yes, at the time, the FBI initially was deemed the
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 5: agency who would respond at the time, I think, if
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 5: if I remember correctly again, this was like what four
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 5: episodes ago, five episodes ago, so I can't quite remember,
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 5: but it was eventually turned over to the army, if
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 5: I remember correctly, But I could be wrong about that.
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 5: I know of people that are coming at me in
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 5: the comments.
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: Our commenters are pretty cool.
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So, Janey, you've been very generous with your time
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 2: with us this evening, and before we let you go, though,
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 2: I do have to ask you a question.
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 5: Oh dear, Okay, I'm ready, all right, what if.
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 2: You give us a little preview of what your next
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: season is going to be about and when we may
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: expect it.
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 5: I'm shooting for January and it will be the JFK years.
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 5: I'm going to go through each the evidence for his involvement,
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 5: the evidence against his involvement, and then I have an
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 5: episode planned with another pod, another podcast you were doing,
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 5: a joint and episode in which we talk about what
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 5: makes all of this so difficult to discern the truth
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 5: For with all.
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: Of the.
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 5: The the innuendos, the rumors, the the outright fabrications, trying
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 5: to surf all those and why is it so difficult
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 5: to figure out what actually happened? And that particular person
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 5: does like kind of like the psychology of conspiracy theories
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 5: and it's called single bullet query. And so we're working
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 5: on planning that episode right now. I've got a couple
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 5: episodes already recorded for it, and it involves interviews with
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 5: some of the people I've mentioned, the gentleman that did
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 5: the that's helping with the lawsuit with the CIA and
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 5: his and everything he's documented. I've also got an episode
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 5: already recorded with a professor in Mexico who made him
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 5: major discovery regarding Oswald's time in Mexico and where he
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 5: took down a major part of the what was what
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 5: has been generally accepted to have happened in Mexico.
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, a bunch of crazy stories in Mexico. Oh absolutely,
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 2: I still don't know if he was there, not one
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 2: hundred percent either way. But yeah, that's just me. I
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 2: hope maybe you can convinced this otherwise.
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 5: Yeah, he caught somebody in a really big lie and
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 5: it was through just some gumshoe putting things in order
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 5: and checking stories and dates, and he was able to
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 5: catch somebody in a gigantic lie. So doctor Stero, he's
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 5: cool dude.
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 1: So yeah, Well, Jennet, I just want to say so,
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: I've listened to all nine of the episodes.
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: I think the premise of what you're doing Skeletons in
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: your Closet, you're really objectively looking at your relative, Guy
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: Banister in a very like fair way. And I do
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: suggest that all of our listeners go to Skeletons in
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: the Closet on whatever platform and listen to listen to Yes, subscribe, Yes,
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: listen to it in order one through nine. Don't just
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: jump to nine, because you're going to get a lot
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: of context on who Guy Banister was. And he's a
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: very mysterious figure. And you know it's I I flip
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: flop on my thoughts on him. I'm you know, I
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: have no I'm not saying he was a plotter or anything.
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: He has those connections, they're very mysterious. David Ferrie, I mean,
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: you can't and Oswalt, but I'm really looking forward to
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: season two. Season one was amazing and I can't thank
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: you enough for joining us.
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 5: Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. And yeah,
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 5: I get probably the most views on Apple, but I'm
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 5: also on Spotify and all the major platforms, and please
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 5: rate and review. We're also on Patreon under dapper Jackalope,
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 5: and that's my podcast company and it's just me and
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 5: my husband. He does all the techie stuff, you know,
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 5: and I'm the talent.
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go. Well he does a great job.
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 2: Your podcast sounds fantastic production wise.
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: You have a great voice too.
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 5: For Oh God love you. That was I had to
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 5: get over that. I had to re record that first
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 5: episode probably four times. I kid you not. I was
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 5: really struggling with it because nobody likes the sound of
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 5: their own voice. And I speak completely differently than I sing,
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 5: and I teach singing and I don't The way I
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 5: come off on the recording is not how I hear
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 5: myself in my head, and it took me a long
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 5: time to get myself get over myself on that one.
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 2: So yeah, well you're definitely because it sounds great. You
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 2: sound great and uh and you sounded great to see me,
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 2: So thank you again for joining us.
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 5: You so much. I appreciate it.
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 1: We had a blast.
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 2: We'll put all your your links and uh, all your
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: links being the description below where you can find everything
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 2: about it and check it out. We have this little
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 2: we have a new what do you call it, do
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 2: a new tradition, Yeah, where we sing and dance with
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 2: Dean Andrews for like a minute.
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 5: Oh hecko.
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: So yeah, Dina, you could be full of you could
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: be silly. And we do hope one season two comes out.
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: Maybe you'll come back on and we'll chat about some more.
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 5: That'd be great. Thank you, thanks so much for having me.
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks guys for checking us out, and we'll see
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 2: you next week.
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: Until then, everyone subscribed to her stuff.
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 2: Yes, hit it Dina.
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 4: In Patty's prison, he did not talk for the record,
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 4: but he said, come to be Street and I'll show
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 4: you what I think of the case. The greatest lies
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 4: are told in the name of truth. The greatest crimes
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 4: are committed in the name of justice. The quotation is
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 4: Jim Garrison's. It could be used for him or against
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 4: him in this strange case.
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 3: Good night, where are you're at