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Why Expensive Skincare Isn't Always Better with Lei Smith · Skin Anarchy

0:00
Ekta Yadav: Hey guys, welcome back to Skin Anarchy.
0:02
Ekta Yadav: I'm very, very excited about this episode because we don't get to hear a lot from our new generation of formulators and the ones that are really, really making a mark.
0:10
Ekta Yadav: And I am so excited because I have a friend, a new friend here with me today that I met on my own social media journey.
0:16
Ekta Yadav: And I'm very impressed not only by his formulations, but his scientific rigor that he puts into everything that he creates.
0:21
Ekta Yadav: So without further ado, please welcome Leitin Smith, who is the founder of Leitin Skincare.
0:25
Ekta Yadav: Welcome, Leitin.
0:26
Leitin Smith: Thank you.
0:26
Leitin Smith: Thanks for having me.
0:27
Leitin Smith: I appreciate it.
0:28
Leitin Smith: It's been wonderful to meet you for the first time.
0:30
Leitin Smith: But I'm also a big fan of yours as well.
0:32
Ekta Yadav: No, it's wonderful to have you, and thank you for agreeing to come on, you know.
0:35
Ekta Yadav: And I'm excited because your skincare really caught my eye when I first saw it.
0:40
Ekta Yadav: And I was like, I gotta talk to him.
0:41
Ekta Yadav: And we were just talking before this for all of our audience listening.
0:44
Ekta Yadav: Like, it's so cool to watch formulators at work, you know.
0:47
Ekta Yadav: And I remember watching one of your videos and you were explaining things so wonderfully in the science and what really goes into understanding like what makes skincare efficacious.
0:55
Ekta Yadav: And I think we just don't have enough of that, you know, and that kind of understanding.
0:58
Ekta Yadav: So with before I dive into that, I want to start with you, Leitin.
1:01
Ekta Yadav: And if you could tell us about your journey, like what got you into chemistry and formulation?
1:06
Ekta Yadav: I mean, where did that start?
1:08
Leitin Smith: It sort of started as a hobby, actually.
1:10
Leitin Smith: Um, so it's about six years ago I started developing my own formulas and and all that kind of stuff.
1:17
Leitin Smith: And uh did the uh cosmetic chemist course and all that kind of thing.
1:20
Leitin Smith: It just started as a hobby.
1:22
Leitin Smith: Uh at that time I was landscape gardening.
1:24
Leitin Smith: I've got a lot of passions in my life that I've done.
1:27
Leitin Smith: Uh so I have a huge passion for plants.
1:29
Leitin Smith: And so I did landscape designing and all that kind of stuff.
1:31
Leitin Smith: So during that time, that's where the passion started.
1:33
Leitin Smith: Try to launch my own brand around about that time.
1:36
Leitin Smith: Didn't quite work out, the timing just wasn't right.
1:38
Leitin Smith: And then about four years ago, I sort of decided, you know, this is what I wanted to do.
1:42
Leitin Smith: So it was a passion that sort of developed over time, especially with all the skincare that's out there at the moment.
1:46
Leitin Smith: It took me forever to find the right skincare products.
1:49
Leitin Smith: And now I I get why, because of the type of formulation that I do now, but that's essentially it.
1:54
Leitin Smith: It was a it was a passion that sort of developed over time.
1:57
Ekta Yadav: Yeah, I feel like the best things come out of that though.
1:59
Ekta Yadav: You know, like I feel like when you really kind of discover something that you you want to understand, like you innovate in that space.
2:05
Ekta Yadav: So that's that's pretty dope.
2:06
Ekta Yadav: That's how it works.
2:07
Leitin Smith: I had a huge sense of curiosity in life.
2:09
Leitin Smith: Like um, I originally started in banking uh and I had quite a good career in banking.
2:13
Leitin Smith: Then I fell in love with gardening and plants and all that kind of stuff.
2:17
Leitin Smith: And it was the same sort of situation as I got deeper into it.
2:20
Leitin Smith: I just got this like hyper focus type of personality.
2:24
Leitin Smith: And so uh when it came to cosmetics, it's like an endless, you can never know everything.
2:29
Leitin Smith: And I love that about it.
2:30
Ekta Yadav: Yeah, it's like an ocean.
2:31
Ekta Yadav: It's an ocean.
2:31
Ekta Yadav: Uh no, I wanna I want to ask you because your your formula is, I honestly I love the whole line.
2:36
Ekta Yadav: I think it's so, so well thought out.
2:38
Ekta Yadav: You know, even your new products, whenever you come out, I I get excited because you put a lot of thought into like what's gonna move the needle for consumers, you know?
2:44
Ekta Yadav: And I think the industry, I personally have been watching it for six years.
2:47
Ekta Yadav: I know you have 15 years of experience under your belt.
2:50
Ekta Yadav: What are some things that you started to notice in the industry?
2:52
Ekta Yadav: Maybe, I mean, did you have moments where you were like, I wish we would do more of this, you know, and I wish we would stop going in this direction and go in this direction.
2:59
Ekta Yadav: Did you ever have moments like that when you were making decisions about formulas or new products?
3:03
Leitin Smith: Uh I sort of just went with what I wanted to do to do.
3:06
Leitin Smith: So the way that I sort of develop uh my products is that I don't really develop with a price in mind.
3:11
Leitin Smith: There's so many ingredients out there, so I I sort of just play with a lot of ingredients.
3:15
Leitin Smith: It's like painting with all the colours, really.
3:16
Leitin Smith: I don't really follow trends.
3:18
Leitin Smith: So a lot of my products don't really like will have a lot of ingredients that people don't really care about a lot.
3:23
Leitin Smith: And so if I fall in love with something because the science is there or uh or it seems quite innovative and interesting, then I'll use that.
3:30
Leitin Smith: I think what's really interesting about formulation and especially what's in the retail market, I know how much a formulation needs to be at in order for it to make it into retail and distribution.
3:40
Leitin Smith: That when you formulate for that particular market, you have to keep your formulations that are at about 10 to 10 to 15% of the total RRP.
3:47
Leitin Smith: Which when you look at formulations from that angle, there's not a lot of innovation you can fit into that pricing, you know what I mean?
3:53
Leitin Smith: And then still keep products affordable.
3:55
Leitin Smith: And I don't think skincare needs to be expensive, but if you're going into distribution or that kind of stuff, then it does.
4:02
Leitin Smith: Do you know what I mean?
4:03
Leitin Smith: So which is why I really appreciate not being in retail and I'm gonna keep it that way because in order for me to keep formulations where people get good value for what they're buying, then I have to sort of do it in-house, if you know what I mean.
4:15
Leitin Smith: Uh and I made that decision.
4:16
Leitin Smith: I was back and forth about it.
4:17
Leitin Smith: That's part of the reason why I I like to formulate my own products, is because I know I can do it better.
4:24
Leitin Smith: So and because of the price points that I'm at as well, it's affordable for people to get really good formulations at affordable prices.
4:32
Leitin Smith: I know I'm not the cheapest, but I'm also not expensive at all.
4:36
Ekta Yadav: Yeah, but you I mean it's fair, you know, because they're very, very, very elegant formulas.
4:40
Ekta Yadav: And, you know, I've I my skin loves them.
4:42
Ekta Yadav: And I know you've changed my mind.
4:43
Ekta Yadav: I'm not gonna lie to you.
4:44
Ekta Yadav: You've changed my mind on a lot of uh ingredients I thought didn't work for my skin, you know?
4:49
Ekta Yadav: And I yeah, and like the you have um, there's an essence type of product you have.
4:54
Ekta Yadav: I think it's your toner.
4:55
Ekta Yadav: It's very, very nice, it's very soothing, and actually really helped my pores because I never thought that those kind of products would work for me.
5:02
Ekta Yadav: I'm not gonna lie to you.
5:03
Ekta Yadav: I've never had luck with them.
5:04
Ekta Yadav: And so I think that's what impresses me so much, right?
5:08
Ekta Yadav: Uh, is about what you're saying is that you've found a way to create products that we have heard about through the buzz in the industry, but like we never get the full benefit of those products because they get watered down or they're, you know what I mean?
5:21
Ekta Yadav: There's like stipulations in play.
5:22
Ekta Yadav: You know, I'd love for you to talk about that.
5:24
Ekta Yadav: Like, what are some ingredients that you have really, really enjoyed working with or that you feel like the industry maybe should work with more, you know, that we can get a lot more potential out of?
5:33
Leitin Smith: Oh, there's so many.
5:34
Leitin Smith: There's so many.
5:35
Leitin Smith: Like Urea is like a huge favorite of mine just because of the way it's helping your skin and conditions it and hydrates it.
5:40
Leitin Smith: I've got that in quite a few of my products.
5:42
Leitin Smith: Uh honestly, I couldn't list a list because I've there's so many products.
5:46
Leitin Smith: Ictolin is another one.
5:47
Leitin Smith: I love ictolin, beta glucan that's making an appearance in in the new uh LSP defense uh pigment system that I'm doing at the moment.
5:55
Leitin Smith: I'm really interested in in more newer ingredients that people don't really care about.
6:00
Leitin Smith: Like I've got in my new LSP defense serum lycopene, which is uh which comes from tomatoes, and it's really great at quenching singlet oxygen.
6:08
Leitin Smith: So I can't name because I've got so many.
6:10
Leitin Smith: I've got all my I've got I stock over 200 ingredients in my warehouse for my particular products, and I have them all because I love them all.
6:17
Leitin Smith: I'm sorry I can't answer that without Yeah, no, I mean it's it's tough.
6:21
Ekta Yadav: I kind of put you on the spot on that one, you know, because I know it's tough, especially as for a formulator.
6:25
Ekta Yadav: It's like picking your favorite child.
6:27
Leitin Smith: There's so many ingredients that do wonderful things, but you need a combination of different ingredients to do so.
6:32
Leitin Smith: There's not one ingredient that does everything, unless, of course, like you know what I mean.
6:36
Leitin Smith: So it's like a group effort.
6:37
Leitin Smith: So there's there's ingredients that I love for specific reasons, but there isn't one ingredient, I guess, that I'll say is the holy grail.
6:44
Ekta Yadav: Yeah.
6:44
Ekta Yadav: No, that makes a lot of sense.
6:45
Ekta Yadav: And you know, I want to ask you because there's a topic that comes up, I think, now more than it has ever come up, right?
6:51
Ekta Yadav: And that is barrier repair.
6:53
Ekta Yadav: And I think a lot of people are focused on barrier repair.
6:55
Ekta Yadav: I personally have I have my own theories about that because I think we've been overexfoliating for so long that we're now we're like, fix my barrier, you know, let's let's really heal this stuff.
7:04
Ekta Yadav: But from your experience, what is what is it that we miss about barrier repair?
7:08
Ekta Yadav: What is it that you would want consumers to know more about in terms of like the products that will actually move the needle when it comes to healing your barrier, helping your barrier?
7:16
Ekta Yadav: Um, you know, and what did you use in your line that you think are just you know, hero ingredients?
7:21
Leitin Smith: Obviously, ceramides are really great for barrier repair, but uh having an impaired barrier is so many things.
7:26
Leitin Smith: It's it's it's lifestyle.
7:28
Leitin Smith: Are you stressed out?
7:29
Leitin Smith: You know what it means?
7:30
Leitin Smith: That plays a huge part into how healthy your skin is.
7:33
Leitin Smith: And a lot of people don't really think about that.
7:35
Leitin Smith: And uh neurocosmetics is like something that I'm sort of keenly getting more interested in as uh the effects that sort of cortisol has on your body uh and your skin.
7:43
Leitin Smith: And so uh from that perspective, there's that part of it.
7:47
Leitin Smith: Uh, from a skincare perspective, uh people being really consistent and choosing the right skincare formulation, it's not really ingredients.
7:53
Leitin Smith: It's really interesting that people love to demonize or they go to a specific ingredient.
7:57
Leitin Smith: Nysinamide, for example, will be one of them.
7:59
Leitin Smith: Often what I find is there are people that obviously have allergies to specific ingredients, but quite often it's not one ingredient.
8:06
Leitin Smith: It usually comes down to either the type of skincare that you're using or the formulations themselves.
8:11
Leitin Smith: It's really hard, and I'll be honest with you, it's really hard to say that a specific ingredient uh you're reacting to it because you've got a product that's got like 20 ingredients in it.
8:19
Leitin Smith: So, how could you isolate that it could be that one ingredient?
8:22
Leitin Smith: From barrier repair's perspective, I think that a lot of people need to find the brand or the cosmetic line that that works really well with them.
8:31
Leitin Smith: And there's a spectrum of skincare, so it goes from like gel formulations to gel creams all the way through to oil-based skincare, which is something that I keenly formulated on because it was the only skincare that worked for me.
8:41
Leitin Smith: That's it's liquid-based formulations, so it's got like rosehep oil, hope oil, and all that kind of stuff.
8:45
Leitin Smith: And that's because my skin type is more dry, it's mature.
8:49
Leitin Smith: Uh, I've got oily combination skin actually.
8:51
Leitin Smith: Not so much now, but when I was younger.
8:53
Leitin Smith: So choosing the right skincare is really important.
8:55
Leitin Smith: The other thing, as well, is that skin changes, it changes on the seasons, changes with your hormones, changes with age, every decade, you should be revising your skincare.
9:02
Leitin Smith: So, what used to work for you in your 20s may not be working for you in your 30s, and you may have to go to a different, completely different range.
9:08
Leitin Smith: So, I think with barrier repair, it's not a specific set of ingredients because you've got a Cera V for, for example, they've got ceramides in theirs, but that'll dry my skin out.
9:17
Leitin Smith: So it's not just like it's just ceramides, and that's what you should be looking for.
9:21
Leitin Smith: If you've got drier skin, you should be, and it's not like it's and this is the really interesting thing about when people say rich creams, then I'm guilty of this as well.
9:29
Leitin Smith: I can make a formulation thick, even if it's got nothing in it.
9:32
Leitin Smith: And and it will will be sold as a rich cream because we use specific emulsifiers to make it thick, but it doesn't mean it's gonna offer you what we in theory say would be a rich cream that'll be nice and inclusive.
9:42
Leitin Smith: So I don't know if I answered your question.
9:45
Ekta Yadav: No, you did, no, you did.
9:46
Ekta Yadav: It's it's a really, really interesting.
9:47
Ekta Yadav: No, it's interesting because I it kind of opens a can of worms, right?
9:51
Ekta Yadav: For me, because I look at a lot of, I mean, I I test formulas every day and I, you know, it's like a lot of times I just wonder, right?
9:58
Ekta Yadav: It's like, what is this really in there?
10:00
Ekta Yadav: And I know that we as an industry, we hyperfixate on ingredients, you know, because as consumers, we want to know.
10:05
Ekta Yadav: We want to know, like, is this really going to match up to the academic literature that's out there, you know, to the knowledge that we've gathered over time?
10:13
Ekta Yadav: And I feel like there's always a gap.
10:15
Ekta Yadav: There's always a gap.
10:16
Ekta Yadav: It's like the theory and then the reality.
10:18
Ekta Yadav: And the reality never matches up.
10:20
Ekta Yadav: And so it makes you wonder as a consumer, like, did you actually put this in there?
10:23
Ekta Yadav: You know, like, did you, did you fill the formula with what you were saying saying you're gonna fill it with?
10:27
Ekta Yadav: And then the whole conversation arises of like, well, it's in there, but it's under 1%.
10:32
Ekta Yadav: So like you're not gaining any benefits.
10:34
Ekta Yadav: And I would love for you to speak on this in terms of like the formulation angle, is like, what does it take to truly make a formula that you're putting the percentages that you know are gonna actually result in changes?
10:48
Ekta Yadav: What are the tweaks that you sometimes have to do to a formula to make sure that you do the due diligence and that the ingredient is in there in efficacious amounts?
10:56
Leitin Smith: It's a it's really a conscious decision from a brand to decide on that.
11:00
Leitin Smith: Uh uh, you can often tell by the price of the formulation whether or not it does.
11:03
Leitin Smith: Because, like, take Korean skincare, for example.
11:05
Leitin Smith: If you take the principle that most retail products work on about a 15% cost of goods by selling a toner for $30, that means that the whole entire formulation is less than $4.
11:15
Leitin Smith: So when you think about all the ingredients that goes into that, just by working backwards, you'll you you you've got a lot of questions there because it'll be impossible for me to do it.
11:24
Leitin Smith: My cost of goods sit around about 30%, which is massive.
11:26
Leitin Smith: And I know that, you know, so that's why I know I can't go into retail.
11:30
Leitin Smith: The margins won't be in there once you take off 50%, then you take off a bit for distribution.
11:34
Leitin Smith: So when you look from a price-wise perspective, I made a conscious decision to say I want to have I want to have all of those, all of the quantities in there at the percentages that they needed to be, but then it's a more expensive formula.
11:46
Leitin Smith: And then I either put up my prices or remain affordable.
11:50
Leitin Smith: And so, you know, that I think the answer to your question, I think, is that it depends on what the brand wants to do.
11:56
Leitin Smith: Most often I can tell by the price of the goods, but this is the deceiving part about the cosmetics industry, is that price can also be misleading as well.
12:03
Leitin Smith: So just because the cosmetic product is expensive, and we often say, oh, because it's more expensive, it's going to be better quality.
12:10
Leitin Smith: No, that is definitely not the case in the cosmetics industry.
12:13
Leitin Smith: And this is the hard part for consumers, I think.
12:15
Leitin Smith: It is difficult.
12:16
Leitin Smith: Uh for people that don't know formulations, don't know skincare, don't know how like how things are priced, is that it's a it's a hard one to figure out, especially when you associate price with quality.
12:27
Ekta Yadav: Yeah, no, that's I feel like that's been the struggle, you know.
12:30
Ekta Yadav: Like before like I even before I even launched this podcast and got super interested in like, you know, just all of the ingredients stuff, like as a cons as just strictly a consumer, I remember being that person that was buying the $400 cream, you know, like the la meres of the world.
12:44
Ekta Yadav: And I used to just convince myself, you know, like, yeah, this is working for my skin, but it never did.
12:49
Ekta Yadav: And it's like even now, when there are so many educators online that are teaching about like, hey guys, look for this, look for this, you know, we still fall into that trap of like more expensive is better.
13:01
Ekta Yadav: If my cream doesn't cost $150, it's not gonna do what I needed to do.
13:06
Ekta Yadav: And I and I don't understand why we have that.
13:07
Ekta Yadav: It's like the psychology is mind-boggling to me, you know, when I see that.
13:11
Leitin Smith: So yeah, it's and I'm I'm guilty of it too.
13:13
Leitin Smith: I love bougie products.
13:14
Leitin Smith: I I and um I I used to do that, but since I became a content creator, I can't afford to do that all the time for videos.
13:20
Leitin Smith: Especially when I don't you I don't end up using the products.
13:24
Leitin Smith: I've got so the thing is I've I've got so many bougie products that I I did end up giving away because I couldn't consciously do a video on them.
13:31
Leitin Smith: Like even if I liked the formula, I couldn't justify saying it's $300.
13:34
Leitin Smith: Do you know what I mean?
13:35
Leitin Smith: So they'll just I bought them and they sat there.
13:38
Leitin Smith: They were good.
13:39
Leitin Smith: That some of the form like uh there's lots of brands I like, but when it came to the price, I just didn't think it was worth it.
13:46
Ekta Yadav: So I you know, I want to ask you because I know that they uh like a lot of chemists say, like for certain products, you need to make sure that it's not like a water-based formulation, you know, like because the active just won't be there, like it just won't work, you know.
14:01
Ekta Yadav: Is that how much truth is in that kind of a logic with the the formulation side?
14:06
Ekta Yadav: Like, you know, when is it that you need to have like an oil-based formula versus water-based?
14:11
Ekta Yadav: And how big of a difference does it make in terms of like, I don't know, shelf life, efficacy, you know, like the being able to add like a certain percentage of ingredients and making sure that they're actually in there?
14:22
Ekta Yadav: Like, I mean, have you noticed that there's like a difference or like peptides, right?
14:26
Ekta Yadav: Like certain peptides.
14:28
Ekta Yadav: I've heard this where people say, like, okay, if you have like a fully water-based kind of formulation, it doesn't have as many peptides in there as something that would be oil-based.
14:37
Leitin Smith: Uh is it true?
14:38
Leitin Smith: Uh, it depends on the peptides.
14:40
Leitin Smith: So some peptides are water-based and they dissolve really well.
14:43
Leitin Smith: Uh, and then some aren't, they dissolve better in in oils.
14:46
Leitin Smith: It just depends on the peptides that you're doing.
14:48
Leitin Smith: Uh, skin penetration is a big talk topic, and there should always be questions asked as to how you're getting that product into the skin.
14:54
Leitin Smith: That is definitely a valid subject to be talking about.
14:57
Leitin Smith: Yes, just popping peptides into a water-based serum or a lot of actors for that matter, and not having some type of penetration solution to that, whatever it might be.
15:07
Leitin Smith: It could be encapsulation, it could be microneedling, it could be, you know, something.
15:11
Leitin Smith: The formulation should, especially if you're paying good money for it, should let you know what their intention is to get that into the skin.
15:18
Leitin Smith: So that a consumer can read that and be like, oh, okay, great, whatever it might be.
15:21
Leitin Smith: And then they can make a decision about whether or not they're going to buy that.
15:24
Leitin Smith: So when it comes to peptides, yes, definitely, because a lot of actives have a lot of difficulty getting through the skin.
15:29
Leitin Smith: Whether you use something like urea to help with penetration or it's oxydiol or DMI or uh encapsulation like liposomes, or there's a huge amount of different encapsulation systems out there.
15:40
Leitin Smith: Yes, I do think that a lot of actives do need to have some type of penetration system.
15:44
Leitin Smith: And if it's just in a water-based serum, then I would ask questions.
15:47
Leitin Smith: I wouldn't buy a peptide serum if it wasn't in some type of sense.
15:52
Ekta Yadav: I asked you that because I really, really love your copper peptides.
15:55
Ekta Yadav: Like I think it's one of the the best copper peptide serums on the market, like hands down.
15:59
Ekta Yadav: And I have been absolutely obsessed with it.
16:02
Ekta Yadav: I'm not gonna lie to you.
16:03
Ekta Yadav: And it's really good and it's but brings up the whole conversation around copper peptides.
16:08
Ekta Yadav: You know, like it's a great example of how like we have these like great biotic ingredients, but like we don't have the knowledge of understanding like what's actually gonna make them efficacious and like really able to work on our skin.
16:18
Ekta Yadav: And I I would love for you to kind of speak on this topic, especially with that product specifically, because you formulated it so beautifully.
16:24
Ekta Yadav: But I know there's a lot of conversation like online, people say if you use peptides with like acids, it's useless.
16:30
Ekta Yadav: You know, they're gonna break apart.
16:32
Ekta Yadav: Or if you use them right after vitamin C, it doesn't work.
16:35
Ekta Yadav: I mean, what are what's your opinion there?
16:36
Ekta Yadav: Is there a lot of truth there or is that all hype?
16:39
Leitin Smith: There are some truths, and then there's some gaps in there where you sort of just have to make uh sort of come to the science, really like let's take, for example, vitamin C.
16:48
Leitin Smith: The data on that is really only for ascorpic acid.
16:50
Leitin Smith: It doesn't, there's no uh data for any derivatives, for example.
16:53
Leitin Smith: But for a couple heptides, because they're so expensive, I normally just say keep it away from vitamin C because there is no data on it.
16:59
Leitin Smith: They're quite expensive, but so to sort of just keep them separate.
17:02
Leitin Smith: Unless, of course, you're using ascorpic acid.
17:04
Leitin Smith: But if you're using derivatives, there's really no data that says that you can't use them with derivatives because it's all about ascorpic ascorpic acid.
17:11
Leitin Smith: AHAs, it's really to do with the low pH within when it comes to A AHAs.
17:16
Leitin Smith: The the risk I guess is that the GHKCU becomes disassociated or the the copper becomes disassociated, and then there's free copper roaming around in the skin, and then that can actually have a horrible effect on your skin and cause inflammation.
17:28
Leitin Smith: So it's a recommendation, it's like it's like it's a guideline.
17:31
Leitin Smith: I would definitely keep it away from ascorpic acid, but when it comes to derivatives, I usually do say don't use it, but there is no data on it.
17:38
Leitin Smith: Because we don't really know how ascorbic acid, how it's converting within the skin, and whether or not it's going to cause any effects.
17:45
Leitin Smith: And given the price of it, I just think it's that's just usually what I would recommend.
17:49
Leitin Smith: But I get from a science perspective that there's no real certainty around that.
17:54
Ekta Yadav: That's the I know, and that's the honestly, that's where I get stuck, is like people always say, Well, there's no data.
17:59
Ekta Yadav: And I'm like, why aren't we generating the data?
18:01
Ekta Yadav: Like I always wonder that about companies like L'Oreal and like the big ones.
18:04
Ekta Yadav: I'm like, let's get this data, you know, like let's let's test everything under the sun and see like what are, you know, what's reacting with what and all that.
18:11
Ekta Yadav: And I I just always wonder, you know, because we have these ongoing debates all the time.
18:15
Ekta Yadav: It's like I see it with copper peptides, I see it with like retinol and retinoids in general, and there's so many ingredients like that, right?
18:22
Ekta Yadav: Where it's like what's really going on with the synergy of different ingredients.
18:25
Ekta Yadav: So that's why I asked, but that's interesting.
18:28
Leitin Smith: Everyone with skin's so different as well.
18:29
Leitin Smith: And this is the thing is that like the way that products affect people's skin, like I I can exfoliate, for example, I can exfoliate, retinoid, do retinoids all in the same routine.
18:38
Leitin Smith: Never really bothered me, but that's because I've got a really good skin barrier.
18:42
Leitin Smith: Like I take and I understand my skin, so I know when it's going to be triggered and when it's not, so I know when to stop.
18:46
Leitin Smith: Whereas I know that doesn't apply to a lot of people because their skin can be quite reactive.
18:51
Leitin Smith: So there's also that as well that comes into play, I think, with a lot of these things.
18:54
Leitin Smith: But with specifically with copper peptides, I usually do recommend just to keep them separate just because the the data isn't there to say otherwise.
19:02
Leitin Smith: And plus because of the cost of the the couple peptides, why risk it?
19:06
Leitin Smith: Even I only use the couple peptides at nighttime.
19:08
Leitin Smith: Uh, and I usually keep it away from my ANHAs.
19:10
Ekta Yadav: That makes sense.
19:11
Ekta Yadav: Yeah, no, that makes sense.
19:12
Ekta Yadav: I mean, it honestly, it's at the end of the day, it's all about like trying to.
19:15
Ekta Yadav: I think the consumer now just wants to understand the science.
19:18
Ekta Yadav: That's that's my opinion.
19:19
Ekta Yadav: You know, people are more curious now than ever about, well, how do things interact, you know, because we never talked about that before.
19:26
Ekta Yadav: Like five years ago, I remember like going to Sephora and I was like, I don't even know, like, I don't know what any of this stuff is, you know, and I was just like blindly buying things, but now I'm like reading the ingredient list.
19:35
Ekta Yadav: I'm trying to figure out like what's the synergy.
19:38
Ekta Yadav: And you know, it's like we've evolved so much as a consumer base that it just makes you wonder like, where is that limit of understanding like the ingredient synergy and like it doesn't matter after a certain point, you know, especially when it comes to formulas that are like a lot of different things packed into one formula.
19:53
Ekta Yadav: That's another big question I have for you is like in your opinion, where is that limit of like how many ingredients you can add into like one formulation where it's gonna still be effective and it's going to really deliver, you know, on its promise?
20:04
Ekta Yadav: Or do you think there's no such thing?
20:06
Leitin Smith: You can add, you can add in the thing is is you have to think of the marketing side as well that a lot of companies go through.
20:10
Leitin Smith: So they don't use a lot of ingredients because they can't sell it.
20:13
Leitin Smith: Do you know what I mean?
20:14
Leitin Smith: So they will usually have a hero ingredient.
20:16
Leitin Smith: If they add in 10 ingredients, that might be good for your skin, but they don't need it because from a marketing perspective, there's no point because they how are they going to sell 10 ingredients?
20:25
Leitin Smith: So they just stick to the few hero ingredients and that's it.
20:28
Leitin Smith: You can fit quite a bit into a formulation.
20:30
Leitin Smith: My LSP exam uh, for example, the the defense serum, I couldn't fit all of that and it would be uh into one serum.
20:36
Leitin Smith: I had to create two separate serums because there's so many active ingredients.
20:39
Leitin Smith: So there are times where you can't, but if you look at the formulation, there's a lot in there.
20:43
Leitin Smith: Plus, there were two different types of systems as well.
20:46
Leitin Smith: And this is why so many people's skincare is like super long, is because they do need all these different products to get all the different benefits.
20:52
Leitin Smith: Do you know what I mean?
20:53
Leitin Smith: So you got a 20-step skincare routine.
20:54
Leitin Smith: You can slim that down quite a bit, but it's difficult to find a product that has all the stuff that you're looking for in it.
20:59
Leitin Smith: Not that you can't get it, it's just that's the way it is.
21:02
Ekta Yadav: Piggybacking off of this, like I want to ask you about like hyperpigmentation products and like formulating them.
21:07
Ekta Yadav: Like, in your opinion, like what's the toughest part about like a high good hyperpigmentation product, like to formulate?
21:14
Leitin Smith: So you've obviously got your sunscreen that's gonna be your best defense that uh on one side, then you've got your retinoid on the other side, which is gonna help clear out that pigment with sour renewal, right?
21:23
Leitin Smith: And there's this whole gap in between of what happens after you've got oxidative stress that happens.
21:28
Leitin Smith: There's so many different ingredients across the spectrum that hit different things.
21:31
Leitin Smith: There's no real one product out there that hits all those parts.
21:33
Leitin Smith: And what do I mean by that is that when UV light hits the skin, it's gonna create oxidative stress.
21:37
Leitin Smith: Well, there's single oxygen and then there's superoxide, two different forms of reactive oxygen species.
21:43
Leitin Smith: Different actives can help with like quenching singular oxygen, and then you've also got um ingredients that can upregulate superoxide dismutase.
21:51
Leitin Smith: That's one part of it.
21:52
Leitin Smith: Then you've got like carmine.
21:54
Leitin Smith: So when you're looking at carmine, what are the ingredients that are going to help down regulate cytokines and uh help reduce?
21:59
Leitin Smith: MNPs, which is something that will degrade collagen.
22:02
Leitin Smith: That's another component of it.
22:04
Leitin Smith: And then you've got things that disrupt the pathway that triggers the melanocytes.
22:08
Leitin Smith: That's another part of it.
22:08
Leitin Smith: There's not a product really out there that don't get me wrong, they've got peptides in it, but they will they will sort of do different parts of that process, but don't hit all of them.
22:16
Leitin Smith: You've got obviously melanocyte control, which is tyrosinase inhibitors, but tyrosinase inhibitors is just one of them.
22:20
Leitin Smith: You can disrupt other pathways within the melanocytes, and then you've got the transfer of the pigment into the skin cells.
22:26
Leitin Smith: That's another, which is nysinamite's a good one for that one.
22:29
Leitin Smith: So that's the problem that you got with hyperpigmentation.
22:31
Leitin Smith: There's quite a lot that goes on into that.
22:33
Leitin Smith: That's why you need so many different ingredients to sort of tackle it.
22:36
Leitin Smith: That's a difficult part of hyperpigmentation, is reducing inflammation.
22:40
Leitin Smith: And this is the part I don't think people really quite appreciate.
22:42
Leitin Smith: I think people so focus on the melanocytes.
22:44
Leitin Smith: There's so much you can do to calm the skin before you even get to that stage.
22:48
Leitin Smith: And it's all simplified in an antioxidant serum.
22:50
Leitin Smith: And I think it's drowned out a little bit, but trying to give yourself as much protection after the sunlight hits your skin for any residual, I think it's in such an important part.
22:58
Ekta Yadav: Yeah, yeah.
22:59
Ekta Yadav: No, that's a really, really good point.
23:00
Ekta Yadav: And thank you for that.
23:01
Ekta Yadav: Because that's the question like we get a lot, you know, here at Skin Anarchy, a lot of people dealing with hyperpigmentation.
23:06
Ekta Yadav: And it's like there are so many consumers that have tried like so many products, you know, and they've done the single target, they've done the multi-target.
23:13
Ekta Yadav: And it's always an uphill battle with hyperpigmentation.
23:16
Ekta Yadav: And it's like kind of feeding into what you just said and explained is like hitting all of those pathways at once, it just makes you wonder.
23:23
Ekta Yadav: And I feel like a lot of times, like that's where we start underserving communities of consumers, you know, like a lot of people who have like Fitzpatrick 4, Fitzpatrick 5, like it's very difficult to find that product.
23:35
Ekta Yadav: And like I just wonder, like from the formulation side, like how difficult it must be to try to formulate that like perfect hyperpigmentation serum, you know what I mean?
23:44
Ekta Yadav: And doing your due diligence as a chemist, like I'm gonna fix this problem, that kind of thing.
23:48
Ekta Yadav: So yeah.
23:49
Leitin Smith: Do you know what the formulation part's a little bit more easier for me?
23:52
Leitin Smith: Trying to explain it's the hard part.
23:53
Leitin Smith: So I'll be sitting down doing the marketing material for the LXP defense serum and trying to use terms, and I get really excited.
24:00
Leitin Smith: Like superoxide dysputase excites me.
24:02
Leitin Smith: And you see sod, but I'm using EEK134.
24:05
Leitin Smith: It's so technical that you people's eyes will just glaze over.
24:08
Leitin Smith: I'm sure in time it will be as people start because I know people have heard ROS or React.
24:12
Leitin Smith: No one, I don't think anyone really understands it because it's not spoken about enough.
24:17
Leitin Smith: I think the hardest part for me is trying to sell a product that has quite a lot of cool stuff in it, but not many people hear about the terms and all that kind of thing.
24:26
Leitin Smith: So that's my biggest difficulty.
24:28
Ekta Yadav: That makes sense.
24:28
Ekta Yadav: It makes sense.
24:29
Ekta Yadav: And and you know, it's it's hard to explain complex science.
24:32
Ekta Yadav: So I I feel your I feel your struggle.
24:34
Ekta Yadav: But I think we're getting there though, right, Leitin?
24:36
Ekta Yadav: I mean, I I have like hope.
24:37
Leitin Smith: Oh, 100%.
24:38
Leitin Smith: Yeah.
24:39
Leitin Smith: The one thing I love about the beauty community is that they are so knowledgeable, they will ask you questions, they want to know the information.
24:45
Leitin Smith: And I love that because although this industry is really crowded, it's not for those that are trying to make a mark.
24:51
Leitin Smith: And that's honestly, that's what keeps me up.
24:53
Leitin Smith: That's the only reason why I created the Couple Pip Tite Syrup.
24:55
Leitin Smith: That's the only reason why I created the LSP, is because people were so interested in it.
25:00
Leitin Smith: So it's sort of motivates me.
25:01
Ekta Yadav: I love that.
25:02
Ekta Yadav: No, I, you know, I really, really, really love how you approach your brand.
25:06
Ekta Yadav: I mean, obviously, in so many ways, like the science is very solid, but also like your marketing, like you're not doing any fluff marketing.
25:12
Ekta Yadav: It's not science washing.
25:14
Ekta Yadav: It's not, you know what I mean?
25:15
Ekta Yadav: Like that whole culture of like overpromising, going above and beyond.
25:20
Ekta Yadav: And I really want to talk to you about this because I feel like this new generation of like chemists and formulators, like you guys are really being mindful about this stuff, you know?
25:28
Ekta Yadav: And I really admire that because I think for so long as consumers, we've obviously spent our money, but it's also led to so much distrust in the aesthetic industry.
25:38
Ekta Yadav: You know, like it's like it's completely fed this narrative of like, well, we can't even trust what dermatologists are pushing out anymore.
25:46
Ekta Yadav: We can't trust anybody anymore because it's all a lie.
25:48
Ekta Yadav: And I would love for you to just speak on this topic because I know it's difficult.
25:52
Ekta Yadav: You know what I mean?
25:53
Ekta Yadav: The marketing component of having a brand.
25:54
Ekta Yadav: How do you approach your marketing?
25:56
Leitin Smith: I don't really have a plan.
25:57
Leitin Smith: To be entirely honest, I don't really sell my products.
26:00
Leitin Smith: A lot of people start asking me to talk more about products.
26:03
Leitin Smith: I don't really, at least of course I'm launching a product.
26:05
Leitin Smith: Uh, then I'll take people on that journey from my there's a horrible marketing plan.
26:09
Leitin Smith: I don't suggest anyone do it.
26:10
Leitin Smith: Oh, actually, it's working for me.
26:11
Leitin Smith: Uh look, I let my customers speak about it.
26:13
Leitin Smith: Uh, my customer, like, I create formulations that I love, but because I know that everyone's skin type is so different, and I'm just like that person, like, just try it and see how you go.
26:21
Leitin Smith: Even with my friends, I said, look, even when I give it all my friends buy, I said, look, I know everyone's skin is different.
26:26
Leitin Smith: If you don't like it, totally fine, I won't be offended.
26:28
Leitin Smith: And you know, my marketing strategy has always just been, I don't have a marketing strategy, I'll be honest.
26:33
Leitin Smith: To be entirely fair, I think cosmetic chemist-based formulations are where it's at.
26:37
Leitin Smith: And there's a number of reasons why I say that.
26:40
Leitin Smith: The private label industry is massive.
26:42
Leitin Smith: Even I don't care if you're a dermatologist or a doctor that has a skincare brand, it doesn't really bother me.
26:48
Leitin Smith: It doesn't impress me because as long as you've created the formula, as long as you got knee deep in the ingredients, do you know what I mean?
26:54
Leitin Smith: Because understanding, I I struggle even now trying to get through all of the clinical data, uh, and I'm in this job full-time.
27:01
Leitin Smith: So if you're not in the job full-time and you're creating formulations, did you select those ingredients because the high?
27:06
Leitin Smith: How many ingredients did you scope to come up with that solution?
27:09
Leitin Smith: The other thing, as well, is that when you layer in how how much it costs to produce a product, did you formulate your product because it was good or did you formulate it because that's all you could afford?
27:20
Leitin Smith: These are different.
27:21
Leitin Smith: It's like creativity is best when it's not capped.
27:25
Leitin Smith: That's why I don't formulate with a price.
27:27
Leitin Smith: And I often will go, oh my god, this is so expensive.
27:30
Leitin Smith: Because if I was led by price, I wouldn't produce a good formula.
27:33
Ekta Yadav: Yeah.
27:34
Leitin Smith: Um the other thing, as well, with cosmetic chemists is they have access to ingredients, especially if they formulate them in-house, they can often produce a better outcome than someone in retail could.
27:44
Leitin Smith: I know my formulations are so good at the prices that they are.
27:46
Leitin Smith: I I don't think anyone could compete with me based on the formulators that I've got, unless it was another cosmetic chemist that was doing it in-house.
27:52
Leitin Smith: But from a retail perspective, I would argue like try and keep up with my price.
27:56
Leitin Smith: Like, even my perfect toner, they're selling that at a 30 mil for the same price.
28:00
Leitin Smith: These brands out there that are selling similar formulation lines for the same price but just for 30 mils, and I sell mine for 150 mils.
28:07
Leitin Smith: And that's purely because I formulated it myself.
28:10
Leitin Smith: I source the ingredients myself, I manufactured them in-house, and I don't have a huge overhead when it comes to distribution or that kind of thing.
28:17
Ekta Yadav: Yeah, and you know, that actually brings up a really interesting question for me.
28:20
Ekta Yadav: When you're sourcing your ingredients, what are some of the things you really look for?
28:24
Ekta Yadav: Like in the supplier, like do you have like your favorite like set of companies that you source from?
28:29
Ekta Yadav: Or like how do you kind of sift through that and and figure out like what ingredient is really going to perform the best?
28:34
Leitin Smith: That's a hard one because you just get them in and see what excites you.
28:37
Leitin Smith: I source my ingredients all over.
28:39
Leitin Smith: I've got so many different suppliers from China to France to to here in Australia.
28:43
Leitin Smith: So usually ingredient, not always, uh, I do deal with companies direct as well.
28:47
Leitin Smith: Ingredient supplies direct, but a lot of ingredient suppliers go through a distributor, and then you deal with the distributor to get those ingredients.
28:53
Leitin Smith: As a cosmetic chemist, the best thing that you do is be present and go to you know the expos, events, any events that people adopt with ingredients because you've you've got to constantly learn.
29:02
Leitin Smith: This is this industry is evolving so quickly, and there's so many great ideas as well, things that you never think of.
29:08
Leitin Smith: So, how do I source my ingredients?
29:09
Leitin Smith: Uh, having great relationships is essential for formulation because you rely on these people to keep you abreast of really innovative new things that are coming out, but also emerging trends as well that are coming up in the industry, like neurocosmetics, for example.
29:22
Leitin Smith: I think that's going to be a big thing in the future, which is uh what uh you know, stress-related.
29:26
Leitin Smith: A big thing in skincare.
29:27
Leitin Smith: And I because I was going through a breakup for the last 12 months, uh, and people go through glow-ups, right?
29:32
Leitin Smith: Why do people go through glow-ups?
29:33
Leitin Smith: Or and it doesn't need to be a breakup, it could be like a traumatic family event or whatever.
29:38
Leitin Smith: It's the stress.
29:38
Leitin Smith: Do you know what I mean?
29:39
Leitin Smith: And and I remember while I was in that relationship, as much skincare as I had, my just face looked tired.
29:45
Leitin Smith: And that's the stress part of it.
29:47
Leitin Smith: And it's not until you remove that stress that then your skin is able to bounce back.
29:51
Leitin Smith: And so I'm keenly interested in it, you know what I mean?
29:54
Leitin Smith: And there's some really cool things that are coming out in the skill in the skincare industry about it.
29:58
Ekta Yadav: Speaking of which, what is the most exciting like biotech innovation that you've been like kind of looking at or that's come across your desk that you've been like, oh, this is interesting.
30:08
Leitin Smith: The thing that came out of with when I was at Paris for the uh beauty at uh in cost cosmetics, they've got like cyclic peptides, which I think were quite interesting.
30:16
Leitin Smith: Uh also that's where I was sort of getting more interested about neurocosmetics as well.
30:21
Leitin Smith: PDRN was making is like everywhere.
30:24
Leitin Smith: Do you know what exosomes I think is interesting to me, even though I know that that's got a lot of it's more look, I've got I understand everyone's concerns, but I'm I'm still like fascinated by it.
30:34
Leitin Smith: Growth factors, that's really interesting to me as well.
30:37
Leitin Smith: Um more from a micro-needling perspective, because there's a huge concern with that being used topically, but more for after treatment sort of serums.
30:43
Leitin Smith: Yeah.
30:44
Leitin Smith: So growth factors, exosomes, something that I'm really keenly interested in, neurocosmetics, and something that I'm exploring a little bit more of, but need to do a bit more research on is cyclic peptides as well.
30:53
Ekta Yadav: Cyclic peptides are so interesting to me.
30:56
Ekta Yadav: I am obsessed with understanding, and you know, it's really cool because I feel like the peptide world, it's like there's just so much we have not done yet.
31:04
Ekta Yadav: Like the synthetic company, like the companies making the synthetic peptides, I'm just like so geeked out over that stuff because I'm like, oh my god, you know, like you can bottle receptor binding and you know, all that cool stuff.
31:15
Ekta Yadav: So very cool.
31:16
Leitin Smith: Well, you know, we wanna, we wanna, we want more ingredients that we know that can get into the skin and do their things right.
31:20
Leitin Smith: So that's why it keenly interests me.
31:22
Leitin Smith: Because there are some issues with peptides, you know, not getting through the skin.
31:25
Leitin Smith: Do they get to the receptors properly, all that kind of stuff?
31:27
Leitin Smith: So it interests me because it's just it's just a newer innovation that's sort of coming out.
31:32
Leitin Smith: And oh, it's been around for a while, but then this is the thing, right?
31:34
Leitin Smith: From a perspective that you're like, now we're gonna have discussions between the difference between a linear peptide and a cyclic peptide.
31:40
Ekta Yadav: Yeah, yeah, it's coming.
31:41
Ekta Yadav: Get ready, it's coming.
31:43
Ekta Yadav: Yeah.
31:43
Ekta Yadav: All the uh social media posts, you know, people arguing back and forth.
31:47
Ekta Yadav: But you know, it that's the cool thing.
31:48
Ekta Yadav: You know, I Leitin, honestly, for me as a scientist, I look at this space and I'm just like, this is so cool because it's one of the only spaces where we can have these like conversations, you know, like constantly about science.
32:00
Ekta Yadav: Like I literally go online and I learn something every time.
32:03
Ekta Yadav: And I'm like, oh, I didn't know.
32:04
Ekta Yadav: Like, you know, there's like a toxicologist that's making a video, and I'm like, I didn't know that, you know, about and and that's where I feel like skincare, like if it's so much more than like cosmetics or like beauty, you know, like it becomes this like it's a culture, it's a culture of science.
32:18
Ekta Yadav: That's what it is.
32:18
Ekta Yadav: And I think that's what intrigues me so much about this space.
32:21
Ekta Yadav: And I and I get excited when I see people that are like the way you're you're carrying yourself with your brand.
32:26
Ekta Yadav: You know, it's like it's about the innovation with you, you know, it's about creating formulas that have efficacy behind them.
32:33
Ekta Yadav: That's exciting, you know?
32:34
Ekta Yadav: And I really, really just I I feel like as an industry, like we have to protect that.
32:37
Ekta Yadav: Like we have to protect that.
32:39
Ekta Yadav: And what you said, I could not agree more.
32:40
Ekta Yadav: I wanted to say something like you were like the cosmetic chemists that are formulating and they're making their own products.
32:45
Ekta Yadav: These are gonna be some of the best products you have.
32:47
Ekta Yadav: 100%.
32:48
Leitin Smith: So because I think a lot of people, I think a lot of brands are just chasing money, or even me, like even when I could think about going into retail, I feel like I'll sell my soul because it'll no longer become about formulating, it'll become become about price margins.
33:00
Leitin Smith: You know what I mean?
33:00
Leitin Smith: It's just from what I understand about my industry and what goes into pricing and all that kind of thing.
33:05
Leitin Smith: Like even like the copper peptides, for anyone to make that, it would have to be a massive company just to just to even meet the minimum order quantities.
33:13
Leitin Smith: You know what I mean?
33:14
Leitin Smith: But the reason why I could bring that to market is because the only reason why I could bring that to market, like let's say if you went to a contract manufacturer, they would have a minimum order quantity.
33:22
Leitin Smith: You'd have to buy each and every one of those ingredients in bulk.
33:24
Leitin Smith: That's incredibly expensive.
33:26
Leitin Smith: You know what I mean?
33:27
Leitin Smith: So to bring that formulation to life, you'd have to have hundreds of thousands of dollars.
33:31
Leitin Smith: Do you know what I mean?
33:32
Leitin Smith: Just to meet those minimum order quantities.
33:33
Leitin Smith: And the the lucky thing with me is that I can bring it to life on a small scale, see if it there's market adoption, and then see if it's going to do well.
33:40
Leitin Smith: So I'm not too scared about even though it's still expensive to bring up a product.
33:44
Leitin Smith: I think, you know, even the LXP, I'm like, oh I've still got a few bills to pay on that one.
33:50
Ekta Yadav: It is, you're right.
33:51
Ekta Yadav: It is, it's extremely extremely expensive.
33:54
Ekta Yadav: And I think that's like for me as a consumer, like that's why I value like like chemists who are making their formulas and they're getting the peptides.
34:01
Ekta Yadav: I know how expensive it is for you guys to source that, you know, and then to you have to use it.
34:05
Ekta Yadav: Like you have to use the whole thing, and then you have to make sure it sells, you know, that's like a huge risk.
34:10
Ekta Yadav: And I feel like no one talks about that.
34:12
Ekta Yadav: No one talks about like that side of the business where it's like this person has put real money on the line because they know this is a great product and it's going, it should sell.
34:22
Ekta Yadav: I wish more consumers knew about that, honestly.
34:24
Leitin Smith: Yeah, they don't.
34:25
Leitin Smith: And I I think when once you sort of understand a little bit more, you can sort of see, oh, okay, that's why whenever I go into Mecca, I try my hardest to buy something and I just can't because I look at everything and I'm trying to look for that innovative product.
34:36
Leitin Smith: And the ones that I'm interested in are like $400.
34:38
Leitin Smith: I'm like, no, don't do that.
34:39
Leitin Smith: But yes, no, from a development perspective, I feel that cosmetic chemists are where the formulations are at at the moment, especially if you want something affordable that's got stuff in it.
34:48
Leitin Smith: And I don't want to say retail products don't take my fancy.
34:51
Leitin Smith: It's just I just know that the price doesn't match my standards.
34:54
Ekta Yadav: No, it's I I think that's fair.
34:56
Ekta Yadav: And, you know, honestly, for everyone listening, like I've tried your formulas, you know, and I and I can tell the difference.
35:01
Ekta Yadav: I think that's one of the things.
35:02
Ekta Yadav: Like, I don't know if your your opinion on this, but for me, it's like at this stage where we are now in the industry, your skincare should make a difference.
35:10
Ekta Yadav: And you should be able to see that difference.
35:11
Ekta Yadav: It doesn't have to be like, you know what I mean, like overnight, like crazy results, but you should be able to tell that it did something for you.
35:18
Ekta Yadav: And if you can't see that, then you have wasted your money and you've been sold a lot.
35:22
Ekta Yadav: And I genuinely, I believe that at this point because of exactly what we're talking about.
35:26
Ekta Yadav: There are so many amazing scientists out here that are doing their due diligence, they're putting their hard-earned money into this, and we keep skimming over this because of conglomerates, you know what I mean, of these giant companies that are just like lying to us every day.
35:40
Ekta Yadav: I made a video, I don't know, on my TikTok, I made a video and I was like reviewing like one of the big companies, you know, like the the big like the L'Oreals of the world knows a drugstore product.
35:48
Ekta Yadav: I was recording it and I'm like, hey guys, look, it has Matrixel or Geraline, it has all of the buzzy peptide names.
35:54
Ekta Yadav: But guess what?
35:55
Ekta Yadav: Everything is at the bottom of the inky list.
35:57
Ekta Yadav: So you're spending $30 on a drugstore product and you're gonna get nothing for it.
36:03
Ekta Yadav: Like it's gonna do nothing for you.
36:05
Ekta Yadav: You know, at some point it becomes like, okay, obviously, we have to vote with our dollars, but we have to really like I feel like now more than ever, like consumers have to really, really vote with our dollars at this point because it's just it's like buying a lie versus buying efficacy.
36:20
Ekta Yadav: Like that's my opinion, you know.
36:21
Leitin Smith: And I think so too.
36:22
Leitin Smith: And I think look, there are brands definitely out there that are really doing it well.
36:26
Leitin Smith: They are there if you're willing to not get caught up in the brands.
36:29
Leitin Smith: Do you know what I mean?
36:31
Leitin Smith: And do you know what?
36:31
Leitin Smith: This is actually interesting.
36:32
Leitin Smith: Sometimes I will come across a product where it is expensive, but I don't care about the price, I just like it.
36:37
Leitin Smith: But they're very far and few between.
36:40
Leitin Smith: But yeah, I agree with you on this one.
36:42
Leitin Smith: I think this is the unfortunate part of the cosmetic industry.
36:44
Leitin Smith: There are a lot of brands that are charging either a lot of money and you're not getting what you you're paying for, or you're spending the cheaper products and they're overpromising and there's like literally nothing in it.
36:55
Leitin Smith: Which is, I think, which for me is a lot to do with Korean skincare.
36:59
Leitin Smith: Like, don't get me wrong, I I do love that they're affordable and a lot of people have access to Korean skincare.
37:06
Leitin Smith: And there is actually, to be entirely honest, I'd rather recommend Korean skincare to a lot of people than some of the bougie of French brands, for example.
37:13
Leitin Smith: You know, they're not they're also not cheap either when you think about it, like when you're for what you're buying for a lot of these things.
37:18
Leitin Smith: Because what you said before, you're not getting all the so when you're paying $30 and you're getting like this amount in it, you know, it's not, it's it's it's an expensive product for nothing in it.
37:26
Leitin Smith: So yeah.
37:27
Ekta Yadav: No, I I couldn't agree with you more.
37:29
Ekta Yadav: I think that it's just it's just an interesting time in the industry.
37:32
Ekta Yadav: You know, I I get very excited when I find brands that are are made with just like truly like science in mind.
37:38
Ekta Yadav: And I think for a lot of our listeners, I know it's you guys out there, they're always asking us, you know, and what works, what's gonna actually work.
37:45
Ekta Yadav: That's why I uh shouted out your copper peptide serum because it works.
37:49
Ekta Yadav: It works, it actually works.
37:50
Ekta Yadav: And people ask questions about those kind of ingredients like is it hype or is there a real efficacy?
37:56
Ekta Yadav: Even though we know it comes from serious wound healing research.
37:59
Ekta Yadav: GHK copper comes from genuinely good research and it can work, but you have to also look at the person who's formulating, you have to look at how they formulate the percentages that matters.
38:09
Ekta Yadav: And I just feel like we have to vote with our dollars at this point.
38:11
Ekta Yadav: You know, we got to make that statement as a consumer base.
38:14
Ekta Yadav: So yeah.
38:14
Leitin Smith: Yeah, no, you're right.
38:15
Leitin Smith: I agree with you on that one.
38:16
Leitin Smith: No, it's a it's a it's a fantastic industry, the cosmetic industry.
38:19
Leitin Smith: I I don't think I'll ever get bored a day in my life in this job, but you know, Everyone always keeps me on my toes, and I love that.
38:26
Ekta Yadav: I love that.
38:26
Ekta Yadav: Well, thank you so much, Leitin.
38:28
Ekta Yadav: This was awesome, and you are awesome and your your brand is amazing.
38:31
Ekta Yadav: I really truly am just in love with it.
38:33
Ekta Yadav: And I for everyone listening, you guys gotta go check it out.
38:35
Ekta Yadav: Scroll down and um you'll see the link in the bio.
38:38
Ekta Yadav: But thank you so much, Leitin.
38:39
Ekta Yadav: This is awesome.
38:39
Leitin Smith: Thanks for having me.
38:40
Leitin Smith: I really appreciate it.
38:41
Ekta Yadav: Yeah, it's a pleasure.
38:42
Ekta Yadav: Thank you.