Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #1245 - Mothers & Happiness

Transcript

#1245 - Mothers & Happiness · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

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  Speaker 1: Yesterday we celebrated mothers everywhere, but today we are going
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  Speaker 1: to talk about parenthood, motherhood and happiness. Specifically a viral
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  Speaker 1: claim by one of the world's most popular things right now,
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  Speaker 1: Chapel Rohan that quote, all of my friends who have
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  Speaker 1: kids are in hell? Close quote. Is motherhood really hell
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  Speaker 1: on Earth? Or is there something deeper going on? This
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  Speaker 1: is the Happy Families Podcast, Real Parenting Solutions every day
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  Speaker 1: on Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast. We are Justin and
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  Speaker 1: Kylie Coulson. Kylie, here's the actual quote.
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  Speaker 2: All of my friends who have kids are in hell.
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  Speaker 2: I actually don't know anyone who's like happy and has
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  Speaker 2: children at this age. I have like one year old,
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  Speaker 2: like three year old, four and under five and under.
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  Speaker 2: I literally have not met anyone who's happy, anyone who
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  Speaker 2: has like light in their eyes, anyone who who's slapped.
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  Speaker 1: Oh it was Mother's Day yesterday, Kylie, talk about my bood, Honey,
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  Speaker 1: do you feel like you're in hell?
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  Speaker 3: I mean six kids? Am I right?
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  Speaker 4: It depends what day?
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  Speaker 1: Okay, So maybe maybe chapelone has a colonel of truth here.
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  Speaker 4: I think that if we are having children because we
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  Speaker 4: think they're going to make us happy.
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  Speaker 3: Oh no, no, no, no.
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  Speaker 4: That's the wrong reason. I think about that moment that
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  Speaker 4: I became a mum so many times, and the indescribable
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  Speaker 4: joy I felt after going through the most excruciating pain
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  Speaker 4: of my life is so hard to articulate, and going
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  Speaker 4: back five more times and going through the same process
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  Speaker 4: each time, and wondering what the heck am I doing
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  Speaker 4: here again, and yet meeting that little human being for
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  Speaker 4: the very first time, and knowing that they not only
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  Speaker 4: were a part of me, but that I created This
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  Speaker 4: is so profoundly impactful in every conceivable way. And the
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  Speaker 4: joy that I experience sometimes because of how hard it is, literally,
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  Speaker 4: because of how hard it is, I can't imagine doing
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  Speaker 4: life without them.
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  Speaker 1: I love the way that you articulate that. As a dad,
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  Speaker 1: being in the labor room with you and going through that,
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  Speaker 1: some of the most profound experiences, literally the most profound
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  Speaker 1: experiences of my life have been supporting you as you've
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  Speaker 1: labored to bring our children into the world. When I
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  Speaker 1: think about this quote, this thing that she said. Opinions
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  Speaker 1: are a lot like social media accounts, right, Like everyone
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  Speaker 1: has on or a podcast, and the loudest ones quite honestly,
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  Speaker 1: rarely have the credentials to back them up. So here
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  Speaker 1: we have somebody who is saying no, not a parent
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  Speaker 1: myself don't really know, but from what I'm seeing it
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  Speaker 1: must be hell and just I don't know. So what
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  Speaker 1: I thought we would do today, I mean, you bring
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  Speaker 1: all the heart and you already have and we're going
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  Speaker 1: to come back to that shortly. But because of my
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  Speaker 1: PhD in psychology, I.
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  Speaker 3: Can't help but look at data.
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  Speaker 1: That's where I go, and I think that there's value
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  Speaker 1: in having a look at whether or not the data
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  Speaker 1: backs her up. Then we'll talk about the experience a
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  Speaker 1: bit more so. First point that I not just want
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  Speaker 1: to I need to make, and that is that there
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  Speaker 1: is a there is a happiness gap. The data contradicts
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  Speaker 1: the narrative that chapel Rone is pushing. We don't have
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  Speaker 1: Oossie data on this because in Australia we just don't
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  Speaker 1: collect that much high quality data compared to in the
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  Speaker 1: US they collect.
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  Speaker 3: It all the time, all over the place.
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  Speaker 1: But US data finds that twenty one percent, twenty one
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  Speaker 1: percent of married mum's report being very happy. Okay, so
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  Speaker 1: that's a pretty low percentage. Only one in five say yes,
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  Speaker 1: I'm very happy, versus just ten percent of unmarried childless women.
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  Speaker 1: So that's still twice as many. It is a low percentage,
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  Speaker 1: but it's twice as many. And here's the demographic that
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  Speaker 1: chapel Rone represents. This is the one that I'm most
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  Speaker 1: interested in. So we've got unmarried childless women. They report
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  Speaker 1: the highest levels of unhappiness at four four percent, saying
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  Speaker 1: they are quote unquote not too happy. And if we
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  Speaker 1: dig a little deeper into the data, married parents have
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  Speaker 1: a significant happiness advantage thirty seven percent of them, so
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  Speaker 1: about two in five say that they are quote very happy,
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  Speaker 1: compared to unmarried parents, who are only sixteen per cent
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  Speaker 1: of them say that they are quote very happy. So again,
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  Speaker 1: looking at single parenting, I guess, and doing it on
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  Speaker 1: your own versus having the additional support, it makes sense
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  Speaker 1: that that would be the case.
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  Speaker 3: It it just makes sense.
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  Speaker 4: And the biggest challenge is in life, we don't get
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  Speaker 4: to just be parents. There are so many other facets
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  Speaker 4: to our lives. It's not like we live in this
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  Speaker 4: little bubble and we get to just parent our children
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  Speaker 4: without any other influence, without any other stress point, without
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  Speaker 4: any other impact to our daily happiness. Sure, so at
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  Speaker 4: any given point we can blame it on the kids.
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  Speaker 4: But we're stressed about finances, We're stressed about money. Our
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  Speaker 4: relationship with our partner might not be strong.
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  Speaker 3: Need a new car, We need.
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  Speaker 4: A new car. We've got extended family troubles, we've got
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  Speaker 4: friendship issues, like there is always something going on, there's illness,
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  Speaker 4: There's so many things that impact our happiness, and yet
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  Speaker 4: more times than not, we'll blame it.
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  Speaker 1: On the kids, right right, right, So after the break,
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  Speaker 1: I want to talk about why, why this perception exists,
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  Speaker 1: where it's going wrong, and how we can reframe the conversation.
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  Speaker 1: I think one of the biggest misunderstandings around happiness and
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  Speaker 1: kids is that because it's hard work, people think that
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  Speaker 1: it must therefore not be good. It must therefore be
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  Speaker 1: hard and horrible and misery and why would you do it?
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  Speaker 1: So we've got this cultural obsession with convenience and independence
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  Speaker 1: and effortlessness and ease. I want this, Yeah, this business
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  Speaker 1: class comfort armchair ride on a cloud through life.
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  Speaker 4: It does sound kind of nice.
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  Speaker 1: Well, we were on a holiday recently and we bumped
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  Speaker 1: into this guy from French Polynesia thirty four years old,
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  Speaker 1: living the dream right, no kids, no relationships to sort
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  Speaker 1: of tie him down, hold him down, and he's just
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  Speaker 1: living his best life ever. And that's the world in
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  Speaker 1: which we find ourselves. And when we were talking to
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  Speaker 1: him about having six kids, we were like, yeah, it
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  Speaker 1: is harder, it's harder to go on a holiday with
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  Speaker 1: the kids, but it's also more meaningful. And the point
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  Speaker 1: that I really want to emphasize here is that mums
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  Speaker 1: and dads, parents generally, may find greater happiness precisely because
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  Speaker 1: it's hard. In other words, the things that should make
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  Speaker 1: you miserable because you are waking up in the middle
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  Speaker 1: of the night to change your wetbed, or because you've
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  Speaker 1: got a child who is dealing with a really big
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  Speaker 1: social challenge or going through some sort of neurodevelopmental difficulty.
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  Speaker 1: That stuff's hard, and it is supposed to make you miserable,
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  Speaker 1: and then you have these moments, You just have these
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  Speaker 1: incredible moments where you go, I am so happy right
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  Speaker 1: now because of the love that I have for this child.
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  Speaker 1: And I think we need to reframe the company station.
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  Speaker 1: These discussions like chapel roans, they kind of pit parents
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  Speaker 1: against non parents, and they also re emphasized this convenient,
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  Speaker 1: easy lifestyle. But what you and I have discovered it
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  Speaker 1: like as we talk about those years where I was
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  Speaker 1: a full time student, we were trying to pay a mortgage,
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  Speaker 1: we had five kids, we had we were living on
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  Speaker 1: absolutely nothing, and we had all sorts of challenges and
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  Speaker 1: difficulties that we were going through. They are the things
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  Speaker 1: that's what bonded us. Like it's the deep bonds. It's
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  Speaker 1: the commitment, the sacrifice that creates the happy relationship. But
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  Speaker 1: you might not get it all right this very second,
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  Speaker 1: but over time it becomes profound. I think we're measuring
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  Speaker 1: happiness the wrong way, Like happiness has been shown to
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  Speaker 1: decline with parenthood since the late nineteen seventies early nineteen eighties,
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  Speaker 1: since Sarah McClanahan at Columbia University did her seminal work
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  Speaker 1: in this area. But I've got several books on my
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  Speaker 1: shelves by people like Roy Bourmaster and Paul Bloom, some
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  Speaker 1: of the world's leading academics, and they say something like this,
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  Speaker 1: parenthood is more than a cost benefit analysis, and happiness
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  Speaker 1: is found not in the ease or convenience of child rearing,
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  Speaker 1: but in the meaning and satisfaction it brings to life.
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  Speaker 4: I think about the most meaningful experiences I've had outside
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  Speaker 4: of my role as a parent. They haven't been the
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  Speaker 4: administrative roles that I have dealt with. They have been
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  Speaker 4: their hands on grassroots, helping people.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, face to face as people go through hard things,
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  Speaker 1: right and seeing.
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  Speaker 4: Their light in their eyes as they have that Aha
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  Speaker 4: moment and learn and grow and move through life in
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  Speaker 4: better ways, making better choices. Right. So, as a parent,
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  Speaker 4: I have the opportunity to be literally at the grassroots
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  Speaker 4: of this little human being that overtime and develops and
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  Speaker 4: becomes their own person. And I get to be a
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  Speaker 4: part of that. I get a front row seat of
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  Speaker 4: seeing them grow and have that light come into their
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  Speaker 4: eyes when they have those aha moments, you know, the
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  Speaker 4: first time they learn how to tie their shoelace or
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  Speaker 4: the first time they do a poo in the body,
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  Speaker 4: like the joy that they have.
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  Speaker 3: Love, how excited you are about that.
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  Speaker 4: We might we might have a toddler going through that
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  Speaker 4: right now. There is just so much joy when they
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  Speaker 4: work something out. Our granddaughter right now is learning how
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  Speaker 4: to match and we're playing memory with her, and she's
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  Speaker 4: just so alive as she learns these skills and the
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  Speaker 4: joy in her face just brings so much joy to me.
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  Speaker 1: So what you're really saying is chapel roone, you're.
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  Speaker 3: Wrong, you're wrong, you're on, You're rong, you're wrong, you're wrong,
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  Speaker 3: you're on your wrong mother. What is amazing?
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  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I just I get so annoyed when people
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  Speaker 1: make these blanket statement And it's like people will often
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  Speaker 1: say to me, because I'm out doing talks and what
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  Speaker 1: have you, I say, six daughters or your.
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  Speaker 3: Poor thing, your poor thing. I'm like, you have no idea?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean financially, yeah, it's it's coming a great
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  Speaker 1: cost financially.
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  Speaker 3: It's I think that we would live in a very
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  Speaker 3: different house.
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  Speaker 1: And have a lot more money if we had not
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  Speaker 1: had six children.
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  Speaker 3: I'm not going to lie about that, but.
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  Speaker 4: Probably a lot less stress, better, a whole days, the
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  Speaker 4: whole lot.
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  Speaker 1: But but that's not what makes us happy.
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  Speaker 3: Truly.
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  Speaker 1: Life is about relationships. Relationships at the heart of well
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  Speaker 1: being and my life. And I say this every time
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  Speaker 1: they say you poor thing, I'm like, no, Now, I'm
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  Speaker 1: so rich.
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  Speaker 3: I am so rich. Life is so rich.
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  Speaker 1: Because every time I look at one of these kids
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  Speaker 1: and I smile and say I love you so much,
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  Speaker 1: or they come and give me a hug because I
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  Speaker 1: come in the door and I haven't been home for
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  Speaker 1: three days because I've been off making other people's families.
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  Speaker 3: Happy or whatever. And I just think that's what it's about.
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  Speaker 1: Like, would I would take six daughters every every day
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  Speaker 1: one hundred percent over any other alternative. I live for
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  Speaker 1: it and I love it, and it makes life rich.
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  Speaker 1: I just made it all about me. It's a Mother's
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  Speaker 1: Day review from yesterday. Ah, So, how do you wrap
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  Speaker 1: this up?
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  Speaker 3: Lvie.
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  Speaker 1: I'm not going to have the last word on this podcast,
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  Speaker 1: but we need to close. How do you wrap this up?
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  Speaker 1: In terms of Chapel Roan and what she said about
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  Speaker 1: no light being in the eyes of every parent she
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  Speaker 1: knows raising young children in a.
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  Speaker 4: World that is very much about me, me, me, me me,
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  Speaker 4: it's so easy to see how having not experienced the
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  Speaker 4: joy that comes from actually number one, creating a human
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  Speaker 4: being and number two seeing the light in their eyes
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  Speaker 4: as they come into their own and understand and grow,
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  Speaker 4: but secondly recognizing that ease over time actually doesn't bring
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  Speaker 4: us the kind of happiness and sense of purpose that
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  Speaker 4: challenges do when our children were young. We set a
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  Speaker 4: mantra for a year I can do hard things, and
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  Speaker 4: we climbed up Mount Kosiosco with four children. Our eldest
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  Speaker 4: at the time was eight. I had an eighteen month
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  Speaker 4: old on your.
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  Speaker 1: Back and I carried the three year old, a four
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  Speaker 1: year old or whatever it was on my front.
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  Speaker 4: And it was one degree on the summit that day,
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  Speaker 4: and it was a really hard thing. We had to
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  Speaker 4: work at that. We had to plan, We had to
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  Speaker 4: practice with these kids, helping them to you know, do
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  Speaker 4: a five k walk on a regular basis, so they
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  Speaker 4: didn't flake when we were walking to that to that summit.
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  Speaker 4: And that day still is emblazoned in my memory with
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  Speaker 4: those kids doing the Toyota Jump for joy when they reached.
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  Speaker 1: The summit hashtag not sponsored.
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  Speaker 4: It was just this amazing moment for them. They did
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  Speaker 4: something hard all the difference.
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  Speaker 1: This popular influencer on Instagram, Tessa Smith, and she posted
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  Speaker 1: a series of images with her young child on Insta
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  Speaker 1: and the caption was just this dear chapel roone, I've
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  Speaker 1: never had more light in my eyes, oh well said.
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  Speaker 1: The Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Roland from
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  Speaker 1: Bridge Media. More details for making your family happier, and
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  Speaker 1: for more light in your life and in your eyes.
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  Speaker 1: At happy families dot com dot a you