Latest / The Marketing Brief / Rob & Brian Discuss AI Everything, Marketing as Part of Design and the Power of Community (S1 E15)
Transcript
- Brian Aucoin: Hello and welcome back to the Marketing Brief Podcast. I am your host Brian Iguan and this is the podcast where we briefly touch on topics across the marketing landscape. As always, we're joined by industry experts. We're very excited to be joined by Rob Simon today. Rob, how are you? Rob: Well Brian, thanks for having me. Happy to be here. Brian Aucoin: Thanks for joining the pod. Would you like to introduce yourself and kind of tell the people what you've been working on? Rob: I would, yeah. I guess I've been slumming around the startup industry for the past decade or so building and leading design teams throughout Los Angeles. Started my career at the beginnings of Silicon Beach before it was Silicon Beach and then had some luck, followed a company called Service Titan through their IPO. They were the first darling at Glendale and they wanted a west side designer. So I went over there and learned how to be a designer, learned how to build a team. Brian Aucoin: Mm-hmm. Rob: Then I kind of ran over to the startup world and altruists that were right on Abbott Kinney Boulevard. They offered to put a surfboard rack in the office if I was willing to leave Service Titan and become their first designer. Probably coolest founder I've ever met. And stayed with them and then met a really neat guy named Mick McCarthy Surfing and he lured me over to the agency side. Did that for a few years and then got scared, realized the agency work is really, really hard. Brian Aucoin: Yeah. Rob: I enjoyed it and I tucked tail and ran back to SAS for a couple years and then Yeah, I had an interesting path there, grew an amazing team and then fell in love with AI. AI designs specifically and then transitioned out of there and I've been running my own microagency for about the last 11 months or so. And it's just, it's been the most work for the least amount of money, but for the most magnificent skill uptick in my career. And ⁓ it's making me wonder if old dogs can learn new tricks because I feel like we're inventing tricks now rather than just learning them, which is really Brian Aucoin: Yeah. Rob: really fun so yeah Brian Aucoin: Absolutely. And adapting adapting tricks to a new landscape, a new paradigm, maybe. So you're doing a lot of product design, UX design within AI, is that correct? Rob: Yeah. Right, 100%. And ⁓ yeah, a lot of it's all touching marketing because everything we're doing in the design world is leading to our new user activation, user growth, user retention. And a lot of that really plays back to how are they understanding your product and your platform before they even come in the front door? And how does all of that top of funnel marketing work actually influence their expectations when they come in? Because they're starting to figure out that mentality and that mindset is critical to whether or not they're going to stick around, use the product, be committed enough Brian Aucoin: Awesome. Rob: to see it through and get the value out of it. And so it's all super, super connected because our attention spans are just being shortened and shortened and bombarded with so many invites. And there's wonderful new tools launched weekly at this point, arguably daily. And the capabilities are increasing every six to eight weeks with every new model. And then so competing for that consumer eyeball and brain space is becoming paramount. And so. Brian Aucoin: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I agree. When I talk to clients now, marketing has become this giant pool where it used to be a, product's done. All right, now bring in marketing and they're gonna bring consumers in, right? And now you have to do all this work to... know, everything, all the design has to be built around marketing, right? You have to, ⁓ have to know who your consumer is, how you're going to engage them. All of this, ⁓ of this design work can be done with them in mind. It's not just an afterthought of, okay, now go get consumers now that we have a product. Rob: 100%. Yeah. And even in the SaaS world, there was always almost a Berlin wall between product and marketing. And marketing was seen as a ⁓ sales and a revenue ops bucket filler. So marketing was in charge of providing sales leads so they could sign people up and get them in the product. And that stopped there. And then product took over in terms of retention, churn, keeping them there, recurring money and billing and all that jazz. And now we're starting to see that the product's evolving so quickly because AI is letting companies make things so fast. that the marketing is happening inside of the product after they get there. being able to pull that off without alienating power users, but still attracting net new users and be like, well, you came in here for this, but we just made this. And that might be the thing that makes you the lifelong. And how do you market them in platform as well as text, email, podcasts, YouTube, swag up on their doorstep. And so we're starting to see all these multi-channel things converge. Brian Aucoin: Yeah. Right. Yes. Yep. Rob: because we're trying to build enthusiasts and to your point that we were chatting about earlier, community. yeah. And that's where I feel like marketing AI are. Brian Aucoin: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I want to get to I want to get the community. I definitely want to get the community got a great point of just how do you execute right and I think it all comes back to having a solid strategy Which is something I always talk to clients first. I was like, yes I know you want to be on Instagram We'll we will get there but like what why do we exist right? Like what what are we trying to do? How do we deliver for this consumer and then we can go and execute? Tactically in these different places and get to these different consumers, but you really have to understand why you exist first. What's the problem you are solving for consumers? Rob: and consumers are looking for meaning when you buy stuff. it's the older, I'd say the older that you get, maybe the more money that you start spending on certain products, like you go out and Smith came out with a $400 pair of sunglasses made out of ski goggle lenses. You know, they had them on sale for 50 off or whatever. You can get them for 175 bucks. I still feel like I needed to justify buying that while I was going skiing. They're like, Oh, what is that? And I was like, Oh, there's cool new sunglasses. So I had to come up with a whole narrative about why I thought it was worth dumping Brian Aucoin: Yeah. Rob: $175 on this new which turned out my favorite like ski purchase. They're amazing. They're great for spring skiing You don't sweat and all that jazz but at the same time Smith didn't really give me that narrative like I'd almost generate that to help like justify This egregious purchase that you know is offering me a lot of like joy But if Smith had actually like created that narrative and that story in that buzz online about why these are awesome I guess that maybe I wouldn't have felt the need to do that but like Brian Aucoin: Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Well, one part is, is, yeah, I would say one part is coming from the brand itself, like them giving you the reason, right? But imagine if a friend had told you, yeah, they're great. You should get them, right? ⁓ like an easy decision right there. Like word of mouth, sure. Someone else said that they work for them and I can relate to that person. Then I immediately go to purchase. ⁓ Rob: It was a classic. No story. Hmm. Yeah. I would listen to it. Yeah. Yes. That's how I bought my skis. I hadn't bought new skis in 10 years and two people recommended the exact moment death wish. I was like, what the hell is that? I never heard of them. Small boutique company. Yeah, I had a ski tech and had a friend recommend just enough, those two enough for enough to elevate it to like the top, like the top one or two things I was looking for. And I never even heard of the company. Never been. And then went to their website. It was beautiful. It was great. You know, didn't even like the way the product looked, but that recommendation was enough to make me order them sight unseen. the description I was like those are the ones for me and I was like holy hell and to your point like how do you facilitate more of that like it because even if it had come from some trustworthy site that that would have been enough to or something that I've been engaging with or maybe had a pair of gooder sunglasses and they had a deal with moment or like we've just partnered with this boutique ski company like this is what you want your variable slush spring conditions in man with California where you're gonna be skiing four months out of the year you know Brian Aucoin: Love it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's my question for you. I think I've been writing a lot about the conversation economy that I think we're in right now is how do brands generate conversations? How do you how are you part of the conversation in an authentic way? And how do you respond to consumers when they want you to ask things? And I know we talked a little bit about community as well. think consumers and just everybody is creating community. It's like, what are the groups that I'm part of? How do I identify myself as part of this group? It might be a brand's platform that allows me to get in there and I find like-minded people. But when you're thinking about designing, are you thinking about ⁓ that for consumers in a way that is enabling or bringing community along with it? Is there a way that you can do that in your design? Rob: Yeah, because the most powerful, I think, advocates for your platform or product, whether it's software or physical goods, are people already using it. And there are a lot of people that have either been early adopters or lifelong adopters that they enjoy sharing their knowledge and their enthusiasm for it. It's like there's significant others, there are children, they don't want to hear about it, the neighbor doesn't want to hear about it. but they still have an impassioned experience that they want to share and they've been creating a unique knowledge base just by the longer they use something or they adopt something. They're either becoming a product expert, an advanced power user. So we're finding online communities and forums, from, know, like private Facebook groups have been working really, really well, plumbers, electricians. I build a lot of software for people in the trades. They love kind of elevating their social stature in these groups as being the expert on this certain area and having other people ask them questions. And like, Brian Aucoin: Hmm. Yeah. Rob: you even a non-productized groups like I'm a member of like a twin fin surfboard group on Facebook and everyone talks about their favorite twin fin surfboards and people like are elevated in that group based on their knowledge and what they're willing to share but it's not the smartest people and the most knowledgeable it's the ones that are willing to engage answer questions let novices ask questions without feeling stupid and then also like bringing additional insight then we you couple that with an actual brand community it's really really power seeing some brands really like give special features give certain access give credits that they can share out with these power users to attract like-minded individuals. And that kind of like natural snowball effect where you're saying, well, let's empower these people. We're not paying them to be a community activator, community member, but we're going to, they're valuable to us. So let's give them like some ammunition to be able to share with people and to be able to say, cool, well, this guy is doing a lot of work for us. It's a heartfelt promotion. He believes in the mission. He believes in the product and let's help them get some other people. Brian Aucoin: Yeah. Rob: it's a level up. Brian Aucoin: Yeah, love I love your take when you were talking I was thinking about how you grow from your core, which is something I always tell clients. They're like, how do I get new customers? How do we get leads? How do we generate new business? it's like, well, grow from your core, right? You have people who trust you inherently if they're buying your product, if they're coming back to you. How do you enable those people to go have conversations and let others know that, hey, I had a great experience with this brand or this product. And as you brought that point up, people are willing to share a positive experience that they had with the brand. being that information source to people and say you know what I had a great experience with this brand and I'd like to share it with you. Rob: Yes. Yeah, yeah, and it's so much more real. It goes beyond the comments and the reviews at the bottom of the product pages. Yeah, even brands that I trust, I'm starting to almost see some of those reviews disappear. a way, ⁓ struggle with whether or not that's good or bad because I have been so close to a buying decision and you'll see one negative comment and it's enough to give you pause. Even in the sea of a thousand positive ones, somebody says something that strikes a nerve, whether or not it was placed by a competitor as a defensive move or if it's actual honest, it's enough to sow doubt. But ⁓ because it's a unit Brian Aucoin: Yeah. Yeah. Rob: directional, it's not a conversational medium. I'm just taking something and I can't follow up on it. If I see a comment like that on a Facebook group, I can ask. I can be like, well, that's interesting. Is it because of this and this? Because I'm trying to figure out if your bad experience applies to me or if that's a unique thing to you. And with software, like it goes across the gamut. Like we've got people of all technical backgrounds learning to use this stuff. what's off putting to someone is an attractant to somebody else. And that's the neat thing about these conversations because Brian Aucoin: Yes. Mm-hmm. Rob: you do focus on your core offering you know that the same stuff doesn't fit everybody but different pieces of it resonate with different people's needs just like I don't know the Smith story it's like I'm not the guy that's gonna pay 400 bucks for a pair of sunglasses but I overheat I get hot I get sweaty like I will pay 175 bucks if I can go down a black run and not be fogged up and then not be all sweaty and clammy at the end even that yeah and it's it's funny it's like that's yeah plus you can use it for mountain biking climbing yeah nobody told me that and there wasn't even a group that was like like if i i mean why doesn't smith have a spring skiing group where let's go talk about the best gear when you're skiing when it's 55 degrees outside it's 60 because it's uh and it's yeah Brian Aucoin: Yeah, yeah, that's the value. Yeah, to you, there's value at that price point for sure. Yeah. Yeah, that's where. I was going to say that's where brands can be that platform, right, for their consumers. I find myself as consumer going to Reddit a lot because I'm seeking that conversation. I'm seeking like someone, know, countering someone's opinion and being like go down three or four levels of like, okay, who's the one that's most like me, right? I'm trying to find this consumer who's most like me, who loves the back country and loves to do things this way. And then once I find that person, then I'm like, okay, I'm following that person's advice. ⁓ Rob: You Just. Yeah. That's a bread. Yeah, ⁓ my god. Yeah, because you can't really follow somebody on reddit, right? And say, we're the same, whatever you learn, I want to know too. Yeah. Brian Aucoin: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'd like to always ask my guests what's something you're looking forward to. It can be in your professional capacity, it be in your personal capacity, but ⁓ something you're excited about right now? Rob: You know, it sounds really silly, I like spending time with my kid. I've got a six and a half year old that I love. And ⁓ I'm also like really, really addicted to quote unquote vibe coding, which just prototyping with AI using claw, using chat GP to make stuff. I'm an idea guy, I'm a builder, but it's been on my laptop and I've been stuck. And literally yesterday they just released something called dispatch where you can drive these things with your phone. So now I can set my computer up to make stuff. And then if I want to take kid out of the park, I can literally just text my computer and say, cool, you're done with that. Now let's work. on this and it's gonna work on that while I'm done and that's been the hardest part with remote work and being a dad is just trying to figure out like how do I stay productive and how do I keep moving the ball down the field. But I'm not gonna give up age 6 to 10 with my kid to go make yet another prototype. And I don't have to make that choice anymore because I can give my human and my professional hours to the job in the morning and then I can go to the park for an hour and a half with my kid and throw a football. But with a couple of messages on my phone, I can keep everything going on my end. Brian Aucoin: Mm-hmm. Rob: keep working on the things that I need to do. that's been the fun part. We call it human in the loop, like in terms of ⁓ with AI. But it's like carving out the point where ⁓ deserves a human and then setting up a system to do all the things it can do better than a human until it's ready for you again. And now we're starting to see this age of AI where it's detaching you from being in front of the computer. And you can start to think of these things running in 24-7. Brian Aucoin: Nice. Yeah. It's awesome. Rob: the platforms are moving into agentic usage, meaning that you're now creating these artificial actors and these agents to perform things for you. ⁓ 24 seven, you know, and it's which is very, very interesting. And if you thought the world was moving fast last year, like wait, wait till the end of 2026, because now, platforms are self optimizing. And then same with our marketing campaigns. And it can test and test and test and you can wake up in the morning, you can have the perfect match of creative voice placement timing. Brian Aucoin: Exactly. Rob: That said, the computer isn't going to tell you why it worked from an emotional or human level. It's not going to tell you, did you make an actual community impact? Did you create the seed of an actual community that wants to gel around this idea because they see themselves in it? Like it'll give you all the qual and all the metrics and all that jazz, but it's not going to give you the soul of the product. Brian Aucoin: Yeah. Rob: And that's the indescribable thing about these brands that work and you can't quite figure it out. They were on a saturated market. They didn't have a massive budget. The design was great. You know, it wasn't like some new magic technology, but they hit it and they ran off and they go like a vacation ink. They made sunscreen. There are ingredients in there that will kill you. I still buy it and I know better. ⁓ the brand. I think it's genius. I love what they do. I love their website. ⁓ Brian Aucoin: Yeah, being authentic, why. Yeah, understanding why you exist is so important. Well, how do people get in touch with you? Is LinkedIn the best way to get in touch with you? You're taking on projects all the time. Rob: You know, they have painting oil with SPF in it. How the fuck does that work? Why do exist? I am, yeah, LinkedIn. I had to pick one network to focus on and somehow, I don't know, I got 11,000 followers on there by accident. Brian Aucoin: Okay. Rob: And like all of us now that either were your two years in your career or 20 years in your career, like we all have a lot of learning to do and it's scary. And it's so these communities where you can support each other and figure it out together have been invaluable. You know, I feel like LinkedIn's given me the equivalent of a master's degree in the last six months on AI design because the brightest voices surface. just learned every morning I wake up and I scan it I'm like, ⁓ my God, I want to go try that. That's brilliant. I get really excited about my craft. And from a marketing perspective, I'm like, man, that's that's that's so cool. You can actually engage with a million customers right now through crafty agents. If you can train them to respond at the right time in the immediate need at two in the morning when someone's trying to figure out, do I buy this? Do I buy that? Brian Aucoin: Yes. Nice. Rob: Is it a medium? Is it a large? Is it a marge? Thank you Marine Lair for inventing that. Like, sizing up. Yeah. Brian Aucoin: Yeah, being ready when the consumer wants to talk to you. Absolutely. Well, thanks so much for joining us, Rob. It was great to have this conversation with you. Thanks for joining the Marketing Brief podcast. It was great to have you as a guest. Rob: And you keep saying, yeah. I appreciate it, Brian. Thanks for having me. It's just so cool seeing like design and marketing, like a meshing into the same thing now. Yeah, that's yeah. I don't know. Just putting the user back at the heart. It's fun. Brian Aucoin: I I agree. Yeah, well this has been a brief conversation on the marketing brief podcast. Our guest has been Rob Simon. so much, Rob. Everyone stay curious out there.