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Jim Palmer opens up about Craig Albernaz drama | Birdland Territory · Foul Territory

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Welcome in to another edition of Birdland Territory with Steve, Tim, Brad,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: and a Hall of Famer. Number 22, Jim Palmer, joins
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: us today. We've been working on getting him on the show.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: We got it done. And Jim, we are excited to
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: have you and talk about a lot of things, Orioles here.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: And first of all, wishing you, as we tape this,
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: a happy birthday.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: Thank you. I was telling you I had Don Stanhouse,
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: full pack. I told him I was going to have
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: a full pack type of day. I said I was
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: going to walk the bases loaded to get to Bobby
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: Bonds to throw a backup 3-2 slider to strike them out.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: And Earl Weaver's down on the dugout floor, you know,
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: about to the last cigarette of the pack. So, yeah,
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: I've heard it from a lot of people. Terry Crowley,
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: of course, and Scotty McGregor, a lot of my friends.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: You know, some of the Oriole personnel. So, Craig Alberness,
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: I'm waiting, but I'm probably not going to run away.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Oh, my gosh. Well, Jim, it's been an interesting few weeks.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: after your appearance on the be more sports podcast, you
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: mentioned that Craig Albernass did not get back to you
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: and you reached out a little before the season to
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: talk about Colton Couser. That thing went crazy. It went
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: viral and you were hearing from all over from the world,
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: really all over the sports world. I mean, what did
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: you make of the last two weeks and how that
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: all played out?
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: Well, it had nothing to do with how they played
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: this year. You know, I mean, it's so, I was just, listen,
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: I come from the school of, You know, not the
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: fact I've been here over 60 years and I've seen
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: a lot of stuff, but I mean, I played. People
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: probably forget that, but I did play for a long time.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: And I mean, I remember how we always tried to
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: help each other. And, you know, I mean, I'd walk
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: down to the other end of the bench to help
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: Earl Weaver, you know, because we wanted to win. So,
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: you know, Craig called me the day he got the
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: job or the night he got the job. And, you know,
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: we had a talk. I said, can we talk about
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: glove positioning? And, you know, he said that he'd love to,
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: you know, kind of educate me on the way the
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: catching's finally evolved and not to agree or disagree. And,
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: you know, so we had a conversation. So right before
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: spring training, I just said, listen, I said, I don't
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: want to interfere, but I'm just saying you're going to
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: find out that your best all-around outfielder could be Colton Couser.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: And the reason for that is because he, a couple
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: of years ago, he left field the hardest place to
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: play in Camden Yards. He was, I think, second in
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: the gold glove finalist. You know, he'd throw. They don't
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: throw a lot from the outfield anymore, like in infield.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, they take infield a lot, but you don't
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: see guys throwing like we used to do every day.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: So he's got a really good arm. He can get
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: the ball. He can steal bases. He's got tremendous power.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: The one thing he does is, or a couple of
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: things he does, he strikes out too much and, you know,
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: does not hit well with runners in scoring position, maybe
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: because the game speeds up. I always thought that you
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: probably want a guy at scoring position, you pitch them
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: a little differently, but, um, basically, so maybe you have
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: him watch somebody because if he can play every day
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: or not, maybe not every day, but if you have,
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: you know, if, um, Chris sale is not pitching, you know,
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: the toughest left-hander in the national league, you know, you
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: got them in there because he's going to help you
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: win games and more, more than just with his bat,
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: but he can hang in there. And the reason I
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: say this, um, Paul O'Neill was a pretty good player.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, he hit, what, 300, six straight years for
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: the Yankees, hit. 359, won a batting title. And, you know,
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: so when we do the games, I always go over
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: and talk to him, and I said, hey, how'd you
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: hit lefties? And he said, well, I hung in there.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: And then you look at his number, I think he was. 247,. 249.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: But he was a good outfielder, took balls off the bat. And,
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: you know, you don't always face a left-handed starter. It
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: doesn't mean you're always going to face a left-hander for
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: all nine innings. So he got to play every day,
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: and he helped him, what, I think four out of
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: five World Championships. So that's kind of what I wanted
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: for Craig Auburn. And, you know, again, we had had a,
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: you know, text relationship, and then I didn't hear from him.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: And so in August, when the club is struggling, we just,
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: I think, may have, we're going up to Boston. They've
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: gotten to 500. I mean, you got to, if you
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: look at the Orioles, they were, what, after, they were
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: 10 and 10, I think on April 17th, it took
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: them another 118 games to get to 500. And then
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: they lost seven in a row. So we were in
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: Houston going to Boston where they would lose. They'd lose
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: seven straight. And I just casually sat on the thing.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: I said, hey, did you ever get the text? Because
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: we had had conversations on the field all year long
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: and very amicable. And he said, oh, that's a long
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: time ago. And then he said, and, you know, maybe
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: he's irritated. Maybe he's got other things on his mind
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: because managers do have that. He just basically said, you know,
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: it's a lot easier to talk about something than do it.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: And I said, hey, I've been around, you know, for
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: a long time. I said, if you don't talk about things,
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: it's impossible to do. So I just told that story
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: because Mike Bordick had said something like, hey, you know,
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: they're going to make changes. And my question was, well,
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: what changes are they going to be? Are they going
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: to be front office are they going to be maybe
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: you have some people with live baseball experiences actually coaching
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: or so on and so on so again I had
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: no animosity you know they made a big deal out
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: of it but there were a lot of things that
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: went on this year that you know had nothing to
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: do with you know the fact that he didn't text
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: me back so and then the other problem is he
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: has a friend by the name of Rob Abel who
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: tweeted 73 times he His wife was the first female
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: coach for the Giants. She also went to the Guardians
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: when Craig went there to be the bench coach. And
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: he owns a baseball school and all that. He kept
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: agitating and not with me because he said, you know
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: what you're trying to do. You're trying to make people
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: dislike Craig. And I'm sitting at home and I'm saying,
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: wait a minute. They're not going to dislike or like him.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: Managers get liked or disliked how you manage. And he
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: had a tough year in the sense that I mean,
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: he did have a lot of injuries. You know, he
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: didn't have a closer. He lost some starters. You know,
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: Jordan Westbrook could be one of the best players on
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: this team all around, play multiple positions where maybe you
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: can platoon then and so on and whatever. So it
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: wasn't the easiest year, but this guy kept agitating and
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: then people kept answering back because, listen, I mean, they
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: won 79 and 32. They won, what, seven out of
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: the last 11 games. But at the end of the day,
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: I think, When you have Alonzo, you sign him, and
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: you make some additions. I think they thought they would
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: be a little bit better than the year before, and
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: that just didn't happen. But this had nothing to do
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: with the fact he didn't text me. I wish him well.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: I'm hoping he does what Buck Showalter did. And, Brad,
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: you got there, what, in 2014, I believe. Yep, 2014.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: But Buck came over in 2011. I think they won,
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: I don't know, 34-23. Next year, they lose 69 games.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: The next year, they win 93. So maybe, and it's
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: going to be a telltale offseason for Mike Elias, because
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: you didn't re-sign Trevor Rodgers. You have to go out
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: and get a really good left-hander. I mean, he had
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: one horrible month. He already over 10 runs a game
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: in May. But at the end of the day, you
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: need to, you know, he got a lot of question marks.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: So we'll see how this all plays out. But it's not, listen,
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: I wish him well. I sit in the booth. I
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: know when people turn on the Oriole games, they like
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: me a lot better than Ben when we win. So
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: I get 14 straight years of losing baseball. So I'm
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: sure they didn't like me during that period. But at
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: the end of the day, you know, we represent the club.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: I want them to do well. I mean, I, you know,
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: still have a place in Baltimore. I've been there since
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: I was 19 years old and I turned 81 today.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: So again, I wish them well, which is why, you know,
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, I, I try to be supportive. And at
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: the end of the day, they made a big deal
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: out of just the fact that, you know, maybe he
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: didn't get the text. If he had said, Hey, I
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: don't get, I didn't get the text. This would, it
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: would have gone in. Nothing would have ever happened. So
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: it's really no big deal. The bigger deal is what
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: are they going to do in 27, 20, 27 is
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: you're going to be a baseball season with a lockout
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: or at least pending lockout. And, you know, we'll go
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: from there.
• 8:34
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• 8:37
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• 9:32
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• 9:34
  Speaker 4: we sent you.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: How's that for you? I feel like I just did
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: my monologue. You did. You did. Great ratings, too.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: Let's see what else our guys got for you, Brad.
• 9:45
  Speaker 5: Yeah, Jim, I just think back to, you know, the
• 9:47
  Speaker 5: first spring trainings and when I first was kind of
• 9:50
  Speaker 5: up and down with the Orioles, you had a conversation
• 9:52
  Speaker 5: with me. in batting practice and to me that like
• 9:55
  Speaker 5: you're sitting there telling me I couldn't do what you
• 9:57
  Speaker 5: and Zach did. What is it about relieving that you
• 10:00
  Speaker 5: thought was so different compared to like what you did
• 10:03
  Speaker 5: when you were pitching? Where do you think that's at today?
• 10:05
  Speaker 5: Is it just, do you see every pitcher? Cause I
• 10:07
  Speaker 5: kind of see it as every pitcher kind of throwing
• 10:09
  Speaker 5: like a reliever now. And it just, it's amazing evolution
• 10:12
  Speaker 5: of where pitching has gone.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: Where, where do you see it in today's game? Well,
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: you know, it's funny, Richie Bancels, and you had him
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: as a trainer, and then Brian Ebel was there for
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: 38 years, and Mike Elias let him go a couple
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: of years ago. But Richie used to always say, you know,
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: it's everything you have for, you know, as long as
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: you can go. And, you know, when I started, we
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: were kind of taught, I mean, basically, you throw a
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: guy a low and away fastball, and you see what
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: he does. If he takes it, you throw him another one.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: You know, because... And we used to always talk about
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: information pitches. You want to find out– I mean, now
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: they have all the– we have good– but they have
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: all the analytics and whatever. But I always felt there's nothing– Brad,
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: you probably feel this way too, except you didn't have
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: as much time coming in on the bullpen usually, probably
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: with most of the time, except one year I think
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: you were the closer, with guys on base. But I
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: always wanted to see what the hitter did. And if
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: a guy– could hit my low and away fastball that
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: many probably couldn't hit a change up or curve ball
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: or pitch, pitch on the inside part of the plate.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: So you wanted to find that out as quickly as
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: you could. Now they give you the scouting report. You're
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: going to, it's like auditioning in Broadway. You know, you're
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: supposed to go up there to sing and dance and
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: you're yodeling and you're telling jokes. You're doing basically, they've
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: seen everything you have definitely by the second time through
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: the order. And then what does baseball do? They look at,
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: you know, on stat pass, they go, gee, first time
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: through the order there. you know, 225. Second time, 250.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: Third time, 300. Well, they got a better guy in
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: the bullpen. And we saw that last night in the
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: Dodger game. I mean, Besser pitched five innings. You know,
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: if you told Earl Weaver, I can get you 15 outs,
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: he would have said, you mean a triple A? But
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: the point, and again, this is the playoffs, and they,
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: you know, Milwaukee does have a really good bullpen. I mean,
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: Uribe tried to lose it for him, but, you know,
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: Will Smith, I thought he hit a grand slam, but
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: the ball stayed in the ballpark, and Then they came back.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: You know, it was a great game. But I always
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: wonder how you guys are and how the relievers are
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: as good as they are. Because, again, when you start,
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: you know, you've got to, hey, if you give up
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: a run in the first inning, just don't make it two.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: The whole key to starting is basically you want your
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: guys to think that they have a chance to win.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: How do you do that? You stay out of big innings. And,
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: you know, obviously, you know, Snell had a great game.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: He retired, what, 14 in a row? But you tell
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: me when you're pitching the seventh inning, the Dodgers scored
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: two runs to go up two to one. You go
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: three and two on Andrew Vaughn. Now, and he'd already
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: thrown him a 3-1 changeup. He's throwing 97 miles per hour,
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: even though I think they've juiced the guns for the playoffs.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: I mean, the guns. Like Evan Phillips came the year,
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: I go to 2018. I think what you went to Atlanta.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: Got him. Okay. Yep. So, you know, he's got a
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: good arm. Didn't have the breaking ball he has now.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: But his average fastball, I think, is 95.5 this year.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: He's throwing 97, 98. Yeah. Guys are now throwing 99
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: to 100. You tell me after six months, six and
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: a half months of pitching 50, 60, 70 times, do
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: you gain velocity in October? So I'm just kind of wondering.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: But you saw the game last night. It's a game
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: of the bullpen. You better have a good bullpen. Orioles actually,
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: if you look at the year they had, they started
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: out poorly, you know, mainly because Rodgers had the one
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: bad month. And then Bassett struggled before he got back
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: surgery and then came back and ended up 9-5. But
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: he didn't certainly pitch as well as he liked. But
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: the bullpen actually, I think, surprised people. And, you know,
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: Helsley was supposed to be the closer. Again, I'm kind
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: of defending Greg Alvarez. He had to deal with all
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: these things. I mean, you got yourself a closer. you know,
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: that once I think 38 or 39 for the Cardinals
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: and Helsley, and he hardly pitched at all. So again, uh, I,
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: I don't know how bullpen guys do it because you
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: got to come in and be perfect. And you have
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: to usually do it. If you close, it's probably a
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: lot easier, at least physically, not mentally because you know,
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: you know better than anybody, you know, you get the
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: lead after eight innings. Do you want to mess it up?
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: You know, Dennis Eckersley said that fear used to motivate him, uh,
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: you know, um, So everybody has a little different stuff,
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: but I don't understand. I don't understand how the bullpen
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: guys do it because you have to come in and,
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: you know, you have to have the scouting report. You
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: got to know, you don't know what you have. You know,
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: as a starter, you get to, you know, kind of
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: feel your way into the first inning and so on
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: and so on. So it's probably the most important part
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: of the pitching aspect now because starters, to your point,
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: don't go that far. But you tell me. So I look.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: I looked up your numbers. You pitched in about 800
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: games and never started a game.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: No, never.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: My major leagues. No, no, no openers back to even the, no,
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: not even that.
• 15:09
  Speaker 5: I thought I might get one towards the end, maybe
• 15:11
  Speaker 5: not in my triple a time, but no, never, never
• 15:14
  Speaker 5: started a game.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: You didn't trip a starting pitcher on the way out
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: to the bullpen.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: Maybe that would have been the way to get in.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: That could have been it.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: That's the amazing thing. I mean, I figured, you know,
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: a lot of times guys, I pitched with Stu Miller. I,
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: Goose Gossage, Terry Forster, they were all starting pitchers. Jeff Reardon,
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: you know, Dennis Eckersley had, what, 390 saves, 190 games
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: as a starter, which is why he was the first
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: ballot Hall of Famer. But the bottom line, a lot
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: of guys start out starting. But, you know, what, 42nd
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: round draft choice. Yeah. And to end up pitching in
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: the big leagues for, what, 11 years. I mean, I
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: remember you coming up and I'm going, this kid's got
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: great stuff. And like I told Brandon Young two years ago,
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: I said, you have major league stuff, but when you,
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: you have minor league command and when you change that,
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: he did, you know, and he was a really good
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: pitcher this year. Got a lot of runs early. Didn't
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: win a lot of games late because, you know, the
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: Orioles struggled offensively. It seemed like the games he pitched,
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: but at the end of the day, I find it again.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: So I have so much admiration for relievers because they
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: have to come in and, you know, And that's what
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: everybody goes, well, you know, he blew that game. Well,
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: you know, that might have happened in the second inning
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: when the starter gave up three runs. So it's maybe
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: sometimes a thankless job.
• 16:36
  Speaker 6: Jim, I wanted to go back to something that you
• 16:38
  Speaker 6: alluded to when you were bringing up Colton Couser that
• 16:41
  Speaker 6: has driven.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: Us crazy throughout the season.
• 16:45
  Speaker 6: And it's when Jackson Holiday, you can go back to
• 16:49
  Speaker 6: a game in which he went four for four and
• 16:51
  Speaker 6: then he did not start the following game because there
• 16:55
  Speaker 6: was a left-handed pitcher starting that game. And this isn't
• 16:58
  Speaker 6: just an Orioles thing, but this over-reliance on platooning and
• 17:02
  Speaker 6: not wanting left-handed batters to face left-handed pitching. I always say, look,
• 17:08
  Speaker 6: we don't know if Jackson Holiday can hit left-handed pitching,
• 17:10
  Speaker 6: but we'll never know if you don't give him the
• 17:12
  Speaker 6: opportunity to. Mike Elias has talked about some self-reflection and
• 17:17
  Speaker 6: what they can change moving forward.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: Would you like to see more.
• 17:21
  Speaker 6: Commitment to some of these guys to become everyday guys,
• 17:25
  Speaker 6: regardless of who's pitching that day?
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: Well, I'll go back to, again, when the Orioles had
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: a lot of their season ticket holders in January. Gunner
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: was there. He was probably the winner of 22. And
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: Kyle Stowers was there. And, you know, I was talking
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: to both of them. And, you know, Stowers went to
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: Stanford and maybe a little bit older than Gunner because
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: he was a college guy. And I said, you know,
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: the key– because I think everybody thought that Gunnar was
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: going to be rookie of the year. He'd come back
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: at the end of 22 and had some really good years.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: I said that the one, you know, maybe the one,
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: not criticism, but the one scouting thing is you don't
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: hit lefties too well. And Gunnar looked at me and
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: he said, well, the more I see, the better I'll do.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: So to your point, Tim, that makes a lot of sense.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: And then Kyle Stowers said, I hit lefties pretty well
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: because not for as much power, because traditionally, if you
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: go back historically, Almost everybody's OPS goes down. That's on
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: base percentage. And slugging goes lefty versus lefty versus righty
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: versus righty. But Sauer says I use left center field.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: So when you go back and look at Colton Couser,
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: when's the last time he ever hit the inside of
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: a baseball and hit a ball to left center field?
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: I don't mean the ball out of the plate. I
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: mean the ball like Alonzo. Alonzo took 43 home runs,
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: countless times the ball down. on the inside half or
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: down and in, he would inside out, hit the inside
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: of the ball to the opposite field. Now he is
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: Pete Alonzo and he does have over 200 home runs. And,
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: you know, every year he does hit over 30, 30
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: to 40 to 50 home runs to that his rookie year.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: But I don't think Colton Couser swing allows. I mean,
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: if you live in California and you know, if you
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: like hamburgers in and out, it's great. But if you
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: have an in and out swing in the big leagues,
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: So did you guys by chance watch the Dodgers against
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: Chris Stale in the Atlanta game? Where he hits a ball,
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: excuse me, Freddie Freeman hits a ball over the left
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: field fence and DeBond catches it, I mean, leaps over
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: the fence. Next time up, it's ball against the toughest
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: lefty in the National League, in the mezzanine. So I,
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: maybe this is just me, maybe I'm an ill person,
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: but But when I used to do the Dodger games
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: or the Atlanta games, I would go on YouTube and
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: I would watch how Freddie Freeman goes about getting ready
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: to hit. He hits like 330 off runners to scoring
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: position for 8 or 9,000 at-bats. Yes, I think he's
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: 36 now. He did have like 60-some games without a
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: home run or something this year. So maybe this is
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: not the best year and maybe things are slowing down
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: for him. But he's been a great player. And so
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: the next day I go on YouTube again and he
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: talks about how Chipper Jones, who is in the Hall
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: of Fame, even though he was a switch hitter, told
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: him when you hit, if you take the inside line
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: of the batter's box, if your hands follow that, you
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: don't come in and out of a swing. So I'm thinking, geez,
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: that really makes sense. And, you know, you can stay
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: through the ball. You can maybe hit a breaking ball
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: or not. And You know, I want Colton to do well.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think this guy, I guess he has
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: his own hitting coach down in Houston. It's not working.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, again, I don't say that with malice. I'm saying, hey,
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: I watched the game. Ben McDonald talked about it all
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: the time, the more vertical swing and whatever. The toughest outs,
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: I don't know about you, Brad, but the toughest guy
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: where the guys would cover the plate. If I throw
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: him a fastball out over the plate and they hit
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: the ball the other way, And maybe somebody along the line,
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: because when I talked to Dean Albany, who was a
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: terrific scout for the Orioles and now is with the Phillies,
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: he said Colton Couser was a bat-to-ball guy for Sam
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: Houston State. So maybe somewhere along the line, somebody said, hey,
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: you need to hit more home runs. We saw the
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: driveline article this year where the perfect swing is three
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: feet out in front, 18-degree launch angle, and you'll hit
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: more 77s. And, of course, they asked Pete Alonzo. He said, Pete,
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: what do you think about that? He said, why would
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: I want to do something that I do 1% of
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: the time, the other 9% of the time? And it
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: made so much sense. How many times did you see
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: Pete Alonzo, 43 home runs, hit the ball to the
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: opposite field on the ground? Milwaukee. I didn't do the
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: Milwaukee series. Ben did. So I talked to Ben before that.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: I said, well, you asked Pat Murphy why Milwaukee hits
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: more ground balls than any team in the Major Leagues.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: So Ben did. And Pat said something like, do you
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: do know the batting average right-hander hitting a ground ball
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: to right field between first and second, lefty hitting one
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: between short and third, what the batting average is? It's 367.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: You know what the league average was this year in
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: the American League? 241. Nationally, I think it was about 244. So,
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: and Ben says, well, how do you get them to
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: do that? He says, because if you want to play
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: for the Milwaukee Brewers, you might have to do that.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, I watch the game now. You know, we
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: can't do the shifts like you do where you have three–
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: you have your shortstop playing in short right field or whatever.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: But the shortstop's playing almost right behind second base, you know,
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: within the limit. And that's where the left-handed are up.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: And where the right-handed are, the second baseman's playing right behind.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: They have balls right almost at the shins of pitchers
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: and second baseman and the shortstop's catching them. So you
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: do have room to hit the ball on the ground
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: and whatever. But, you know, when maybe the philosophy– You know,
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: we were told three or four years ago that the
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: best thing that happens in baseball is a home run.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: And I started looking at numbers. I'm going, OK, since 2006,
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: when they tested for steroids, home runs are up and
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: runs per game are down. So you tell me. We
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: know some teams, the Orioles, you know, the Yankees, they're
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: predicated on home runs. Look at the Dodgers. You know,
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: last night, Smith didn't hit a home run. If he
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: hits a home run, they take it up. What a
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: 4-1 lead, you know, at the end of the day.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: So he hits a double. But the bottom line, a
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: lot of teams like Milwaukee, I mean, you know, they're
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: not like a normal team. And maybe that's why they
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: won more games than any other team in baseball.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: We are talking to Hall of Famer Jim Palmer today
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: on Birdland Territory. And we got some more questions coming
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: his way in just a moment.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: Hey, everybody.
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: It's the best time of the year for sports right now.
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: You got the NFL. You got the NBA about to start.
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: You got college football. You got hockey going on here.
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: And the best part of all, you got the MLB playoffs.
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: So if you want great seats to the LCS and
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: then the World Series, wherever that is, go to SeatGeek.
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: I've used SeatGeek many times for college football tickets, concert tickets.
• 24:17
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• 24:18
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• 24:21
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• 24:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, AJ, the best deals are on SeatGeek. With over
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: 35 million downloads, SeatGeek is the number one rated ticketing app.
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: And with SeatGeek being MLB's official ticket marketplace, your tickets
• 24:33
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• 24:38
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• 24:51
  Speaker 4: use it later.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: Gracias, SeatGeek.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: Our guest today, one of six men enshrined as Orioles
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: in the Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, New York, Jim Palmer,
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: went in on the first ballot in 1990. So, Jim,
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: I want to ask you a question about Gunnar Henderson.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: We've seen a two-year fall off in his performance. If
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: anybody goes back and looks at the voting for the
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: 2024 MVP, see the company he was keeping that he's
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: not keeping now. What did you see this year? And
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: can he get back to being that elite talent?
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: What's he 25? Of course you can. I mean, he's,
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: he's a marvelous athlete. And, you know, I used to,
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: when Brooks, Brooks, Brooks Robinson was alive, I'd say Brooks,
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: you ever see anybody in all the years, you know,
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: been with the Orioles, anybody that athletic. Now we've had
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: a lot of athletic guys, you know, I mean, and
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: of course I'm probably talking about more guys that came
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: up through the organization. not Adam Jones's of the world,
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: you know, that we traded for and whatever, who was
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: a marvelous player and did so much for the city
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: of Baltimore. But, and Brooks would say, no, Gunnar, you know,
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: is good or better than any of them. I look
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: at it. Okay. So he had 28 home runs at
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: the all-star break in 2024. And he only hit nine
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: the rest of the year. So he's hitting a home
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: run every 17 times up. And then, Second half of
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: the year, he hit a home run every 30 times up.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: That's what he did last year. Hit a home run
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: about every 28, 29 times up. But he hit 342
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: at runners in scoring position. He hit 205 this year.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: So I thought, I looked at last year, and everybody goes, well,
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: he didn't hit as many home runs. Of course, he
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: went from 24 to eight errors. Tony Mancellino, who took
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: over as manager, and the club actually was 60 and
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: 59 with him. turned him into a really good shortstop
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: by getting him to slow down and not rushing. And,
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: you know, again, everybody's clock's different as an infielder, but
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: the good ones, their clock's on time most of the time. And,
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: you know, Gunnar got it to where he could tell
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: the time in the dark. That's how good he was
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: at shortstop. This year, I think he went to 18 errors.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: But somewhere along the line, and the minute they announced
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: that he was going to be on the WBC team,
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: and I'm going, okay, well... He's not going to play
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: every day because Bobby Witt Jr. is one of the
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: best players in the American League. You know, the guy that,
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: you know, that the Orioles did not pick, they picked
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: Adley Rutchin ahead of him. So I'm going, where's he
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: going to play? So I had to play third. Bregman,
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: of course, said, well, I'm not on the team. I
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: want to play a lot. So Gunner and, you know,
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: his best month was April. He had eight home runs.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: But ever since the second half of the year, he
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: doesn't hit home runs, you know, like once every 28 times.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: He just had an amazing time. Now, I don't know
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: if that's the fact that I know he tried to
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: pull more balls this year, but when you drop 135
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: points for runners in scoring position, you're not using the
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: whole field. Now, did he hit some balls hard at people?
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: Did he get frustrated? I mean, you would think it'd
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: be a little bit less difficult, never easy, less difficult
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: with Alonzo on the team because he's beat Alonzo. And
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: other than the month of April where he hit 175,
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: which that'll never happen again, trying too hard. Pete had
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: as good a year as you ever want to see
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: a guy have, especially in his first year. I mean,
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: he was better than advertised. So I, you know, why
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: wouldn't gunner be able to be better, but he doesn't
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: hit lefties as well. That's probably because he doesn't use
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: the whole field. And the other thing is Brad, you
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: were a catcher, but how would you like to be
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: a left-handed hitter in Camden yards? Yeah. When they, when they,
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: I'll be kind when they moved the wall out from
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: three 64 to which was too short. They could have
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: moved it back like they did for Mike Messina. I mean, Steve,
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: remember that? When they wanted to move the fence back
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: eight feet, they actually moved home plate back. Oh, that's right.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, how many millions of dollars do you think
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: they spent taking that wall out? I mean, in the yards,
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: it doesn't look the same. But anyway, so your left-handed hitter,
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: where do you want to hit the ball? You want
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: to hit it at the right field or center field.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, they move left center in a
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: little bit. It's 373 or whatever. I don't know what
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: they call that out there. You know, it used to
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: be the Mr. Splash zone, but he's history. So, at
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: least now. But who would want to be Mr. Splash
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: in the winter in Baltimore anyway? So, I'm going to
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: give him a pass on that. Now, the bird, I
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: don't know. I mean, birds fly south. Birds probably in
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: the desert. So, you know. Whatever. Why are you guys
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: laughing about it?
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: I guess what you're saying is Gunner needs to use
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: the whole field more.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: Well, but who... who knows what somebody told him? I
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: don't think Dustin Lynn and Brady North told him that.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: I don't know, you know? I mean, Scott Burst, great agent,
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: but he's got his guys and they work out with
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: him and all that. And he said, well, you know,
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: you only hit, what, 18 home runs in 2025. You've
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: got to hit more home runs. I'd love to pitch
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: against guys. I don't know about you, Brad, that are
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: trying to hit home. Because their swing was in and out. And,
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: you know, when you're in and out of the zone,
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: you don't stay on good pitches. If you make your pitches.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: Don't get me wrong. So, you know, yeah. Yeah, I mean, plus,
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: when's he a free agent? That's another thing, you know?
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, a lot of guys play really well before
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: he becomes a free agent. But I don't think Gunner's
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: the problem. The problem is they have a lot of guys.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, they... there were a lot of bright spots
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: on the Orioles, even though they only won 79 games.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, Blaise Alexander comes out of, you know, it's
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: what one 32 in April and then it's like three
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: months of three 60 and he can play all over.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, though he did break his hand and then
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: had some back problems, but you know, how about Christian
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: and Garcia on a strand? I mean, where is he
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: going to play next year? I mean, he hit lefties,
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: he's hit righties, he hit over 300 with runners in
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: scoring position. You know, it's a guy that what four
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: years ago, had a really good rookie year and then
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: had some injuries. Kobe Mayo. He'd be my right fielder.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: I would say, Kobe, you know what? We'll meet you
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: at the local high school or junior college down in Florida,
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: and we're going to take balls off the bat, which
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: is what Paul O'Neill did. One of the best Paul
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: O'Neill stories, he's hitting 360 in AAA, and somebody gets
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: hurt in Cincinnati, and they call somebody else up, and
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: he sprints, and he had to have a temper. He
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: sprints into the manager's office, and he says, I'm hitting 360.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: How come I didn't go up there? And they said
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: they wanted a complete player. Now, Kobe Mayo could probably
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: be a complete player. Now, is he going to hit
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: a home run against lefties every nine times up like
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: he did this year? Probably not. They'll adjust. But he's
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: got tremendous power. He can run. He's got a great arm.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: But Castellanos, remember him that they gave all the money
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: to with Philly? He was horrible in the outfield. There's
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: no way that Kobe is not more mobile. And all
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: he has to do is figure out to maybe stay
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: in there because he's an inside half hitter. Use the
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: whole field. hit the ball away and that comes with reps.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: And all of a sudden you've got yourself a young
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: player that has immense power. What do they call it?
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: A light tower power. Yeah. At home runs, you hit
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: it to the top of the light towers. So there
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: are a lot of, you know, a lot of goods,
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: you know, Rico Garcia out of the bullpen, you know,
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: so they, there were a lot of guys that came
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: in and had good years. But at the end of
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: the day, when you looked at this club in spring
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: training before all the injuries, you figured they'd be a
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: lot better. I mean, I thought, you know, I thought Eflin,
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: you know, he had back surgery. Usually when you come
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: off back surgery, you're, you know, he takes care of
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: the back problem and he has what six, six, and
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: he gave a chance to win every time. And he
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: pitched what four innings and then had to have Tommy
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: John surgery and same with Westberg. So again, but where
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: are all these guys going to play next year? You know,
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: what positions are they going to play? Do you, you know, platoon? I, I, I,
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: I played with John Lowenstein and, And Gary Renike, they
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: hit 31, 33, 46 home runs between them in left field.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: So platoons work. You know, the Yankees won five straight
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: world championships with Hank Bauer and Gene Woodling. Hank was
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: my first manager, and Gene Woodling was our first hitting coach.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: You know, platooning in left field. So platoons work. You
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: just have to figure out. But just think about, for
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: Craig Alderness, and again, just imagine it's your first year
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: as a manager. And you come, you know, you don't know,
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: you don't know your players. And I saw the Chris
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: Bassett thing where he said, you know, he thought he
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: made everybody accountable. And, you know, but, you know, you
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: get new coaches, you've got, you know, new this, you've
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: got a new manager, you have this, you have injuries.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: Maybe 79 wins is a lot of wins. I don't know. See,
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: I look at it. Tony Mancelino took a team that
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: was 15 and 28 and went 50 and 59 with
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: Bradley Reckman being hurt, no Pete Alonzo. but they didn't
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: even consider him, I guess. So, and again, it's nothing
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: against Craig, but this was Craig's first year. And, you know,
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: to your point, Steve, didn't somebody say Gunnar Henderson's had
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: seven hitting instructors in the last three years? Seven. So, so,
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: you know, I mean, Brad, I don't know. I mean,
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: I had some bad years, not too many, thank God,
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: but so if you hear it, you hear things, you
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: hear echoes in your, in your head sometimes when things
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: don't go the way you want to, or you, you know,
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: don't make the pitch you want to. So there are
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: probably a lot of, a lot of echoes, but not
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: for Gunner because of, okay, what do I do now?
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, what's my approach, whatever. So again, he's, you know,
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: we look at him as being been around forever, but
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: he's only 25 years old. Right. Extremely gifted, you know,
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: as far as talent wise.
• 34:48
  Speaker 6: Well, Jim, I guess we can end with a question
• 34:51
  Speaker 6: about you. We all love watching you on Masson. You, Kevin,
• 34:55
  Speaker 6: Ben all have a great time together. Just how much
• 34:58
  Speaker 6: do you enjoy being in that booth and how much
• 35:01
  Speaker 6: longer do you want to do it?
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: Well, my wife said Orange Theory, so I don't think
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: she's back yet. I don't know. You know, I mean, listen,
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: the Orioles have been very nice. You know, I got
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: a nice birthday wish from Katie Griggs. And, you know,
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: I have a contract that kind of, if I just
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: tell them by October 1st, at least for the moment,
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: I get to come back. So I plan on coming back.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: I mean, I suppose that we have a long lockout and,
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: you know, that the owners and the players don't think
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: rationally because there's a lot of revenue out there and
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of people who love this game. I
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: would imagine I'll be back, you know, for next year.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, I enjoy doing the games. I think one
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: of the things... You know, Aaron Goldsmith does the play-by-play
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: for Seattle, and he gave me kind of a backhanded
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: compliment a couple years ago. He said, you know, I
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: don't do all our games, so I listen to you,
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: and you know as much about the Mariners as you
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: know about the Orioles. And I said, kind of my job.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: You know, that's what good analysts do. Brad, you learned that.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: I mean, you've gotten better because we all, it's kind
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: of like, you know, they throw you out in the
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: bullpen first day. Hey, you know everything, you know. Well,
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: it's not the way it works. You know, broadcasting is
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: the same way. You've got to do games. You know,
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: when you work with good people, you know, we don't
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: do a whole lot of three-man boosts. I think we
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: did opening day this year. But Ben's great, and, you know,
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: Kevin is Kevin, and Ben Wagner takes his place, and,
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: you know, so on and so on. So when you
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: work good with– it makes a lot of fun. It
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: would be nicer if they won more games, but we
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: can't dictate that. And I know how passionate Oriole fans
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: are and so on and so on. So, you know,
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: hopefully I will be back next year, do my 54 games.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: But what happens is, you know, Ben likes– you know,
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: I don't blame him. He's Mr. College Baseball. So he
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: goes away for like a month. And I end up
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: doing a lot of games in like 19 out of
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: 23 games or something like that. And you're only doing 54.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: It's not like doing 81 and so on and whatever.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: But the Orioles have been nice enough. I have a
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: place in Little Italy. So I get to go to
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: the Merritt down in Canton. I get to go around
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: the corner to eat in Little Italy. That's about a
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: mile and a half to the ballpark. So I'm not
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: complaining at all. And if I did, who would care?
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: When a guy would whine, and George Bamberger, he was
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: a great pitching coach, what, 12, 20 game winners, five
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: young award winners. Somebody would be whining, he'd take a
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: quarter out of his pocket because it was before cell phones,
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: and he said, here, go call somebody that gives a,
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: you know. So I got the message early on. But,
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: you know, listen, I'm happy that I'm healthy enough to
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: do this, and hopefully the Orioles are going to have
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: a much better year. And Mike, let's hope Michael has,
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: has a great off season, but you know, the interesting
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: thing is if they're going to lock everything down, supposedly
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: December one, and you can't send Christmas cards and all that,
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: they have some work to do in the next six weeks.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: You know, I mean, it'd be busy. Yeah, exactly. Well,
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't mean just players, but I mean,
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: getting the right M's and getting guys, you know, Craig,
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden it says guys know what they
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: need to do and all that. Well, better get the
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: memo out in the next six weeks because it's, For
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: this club to be better, they're going to have to
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: improve some, you know, in some facets of the game. And,
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: you know, that's kind of what baseball is about. And
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: hopefully they'll be better. I mean, you know, the runners
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: are scoring position. They're 10 points below the league average.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: You know, the last time they scored a lot of runs,
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: they hit 287. This year they hit 242. You know,
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: so it's a game of skills. And I think everybody thinks, well,
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: the Orioles have a lot of talent. They're core players,
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: and they do. but there's a big difference between talent
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: and Brad knows this guys that, you know, throw 99
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: in the bullpen and have no idea of where it's going,
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: you know, and the skills to actually pitch or to
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: play or, you know, make the make fielding plays or
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: whatever the case may be. So let's hope the skills
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: get better. And that's what spring training will be. And
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: let's hope they have six weeks of spring training. Yeah.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: Everything's kind of in a flux. So we'll kind of
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: play it by ear.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: Jim, what a pleasure to have you on today. Happy birthday.
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: Oh, thank you. Brad, are you in Southern California?
• 39:14
  Speaker 5: No, for the weekend, yes, but I live in Nashville,
• 39:17
  Speaker 5: just south of Nashville.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: Well, I know that. Well, you know, you like the taxes,
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: so I understand.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: His Padre days coming back for him here the last
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: few days.
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: Well, let's say, well, how, how beautiful is that bumper?
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah. It's amazing. Yeah. It doesn't get any better.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: It's only like six.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: I'm here.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: I'm only like 70 miles up the, up the coast. Yeah.
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: So we'll enjoy it. Good seeing you guys. Good seeing you, Jim.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: And the very last thing I'd like to say, I'll
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: share an opinion here if I might. And I told
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: Jim this during the season, he hasn't lost an inch
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: off his broadcasting fastball. So as many years you want
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: to call games, that's as many as I would love
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: to watch you call games. And I want to say
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: one more thing. The last few weeks have been interesting
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: and turbulent and crazy at times. Here's what I know about.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: You, Jim.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: You love, love, love the Baltimore Orioles. And we love
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: seeing a hall of famer who loves our team in
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: Baltimore like you do. And, there's a lot of a
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: lot of emotions with you when it comes to the Baltimore.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: Orioles well yeah and I mean I was part of
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: a lot of great things I mean to play for
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: a team I mean I and I signed before the
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: draft I mean I could have signed you know I
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: I came back from South Dakota played in the college
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: league I was the only high school player up there
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: we had a car accident jump in the car behind
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: us a couple of other players and the Orioles and
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: Houston comes and Houston offered more money and My parents said, no.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: And then the next day, 10 teams called. So I
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: probably could have gotten a lot of more money, but
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, to get a chance to be in six
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: world series and play with Brooks and Frank and some
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: of the greatest players that ever played. And, you know, the,
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: you know, the Al Bumbris and the Kenny Singleton's and,
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: you know, I saw Eddie at a, at a card show,
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: Eddie Murray, you know, who, who, who, you know, one
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: of one of like three or four legitimate guys that
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: had 3000 hits and 500 home runs. And then of course,
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: Cal's dad was my first manager. And when Cal started
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: his streak, I just happened to be pitching that night.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: So like 2,632 games later, to be honest. So, but again, yeah,
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: it's been a great run and we'll, you know, we'll,
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: we'll see how it goes, but I appreciate spending the
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: time with you guys. Steve, I enjoyed that.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: Loved having you on, have a great birthday and can't
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: wait to see you in 2027. Hopefully we're going to have, Baseball.
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: We'll let them work that out. And we look forward
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: to seeing you at the ballpark real soon, Jim. Thanks
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: for taking time today.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: You guys have a good holiday. I know it's down
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: the road. Yeah. Take care. Thanks, Jim Palmer.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: Our guest today on Birdland Territory. Thanks to everyone for
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: checking it out. And we'll see you next time on
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: the next edition of Birdland Territory.
• 41:56
  Speaker 5: If you made it this far, you'll love this next video.
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: Check it out right here.
• 42:00
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• 42:02
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