Latest / The Home of Fertility with Liz Walton & Helen Zee / Feed Your Microbiome, Fuel Your Fertility: Dr Cecilia Kitic on Gut–Hormone Science

Transcript

Feed Your Microbiome, Fuel Your Fertility: Dr Cecilia Kitic on Gut–Hormone Science · The Home of Fertility with Liz Walton & Helen Zee

• 0:00
  LizWalton: you Welcome to the home of fertility, a space for real conversations and expert insights about fertility, healing and creating family.
• 0:14
  LizWalton: I'm Liz Walton.
• 0:17
  HelenZee: And I'm Helen Z.
• 0:18
  HelenZee: We are two mums who've walked this path and are passionate about supporting you on your journey, emotionally, physically and spiritually.
• 0:28
  LizWalton: We talk about it all.
• 0:29
  LizWalton: Fertility treatments, holistic support, relationships, mind Because
• 0:38
  HelenZee: sometimes the missing piece lies in someone else's story, in the quiet wisdom of the body, or in a breakthrough that's finally
• 0:48
  LizWalton: made for you.
• 0:49
  LizWalton: We are so glad you are here.
• 0:51
  LizWalton: Let's dive in.
• 0:56
  Unknown: Music
• 0:58
  HelenZee: Hello and welcome.
• 0:59
  HelenZee: Welcome to our listeners today.
• 1:01
  HelenZee: We are being gifted and nourished.
• 1:05
  HelenZee: I'm going to use the word nourished because we are speaking with the very talented and passionate Dr.
• 1:12
  HelenZee: Cecilia Kiddick, who is a researcher and an exercise physiologist with a PhD in immunonutrition and has written more than 80 published papers exploring how the microbiome, inflammation, hormones and nutrition interact.
• 1:30
  HelenZee: Did I say we're going to have a nourishing conversation?
• 1:33
  HelenZee: She is also the founder of the IVF Project, the world's first accredited allied health practice for preconception care, and the founder of the Fertile Gut, a supplement-based brand which helps nurture the female gut in our health from menses, menstruation, right through to menopause.
• 1:54
  HelenZee: So we are delighted to have this conversation be sparked today Cecilia and thank you so much for your time and presence and the dedication to your life's work
• 2:08
  Cecilia: it's so lovely to be here Helen talking about all these very important topics to your
• 2:13
  HelenZee: audience yes the audience which is the pathways to parenthood so many of us want to spark that part of our evolution in our relationship or for ourselves and we're just seeing more and more now the statistics changing and I don't want to see people humans families wanting to be just be dealt with as a statistic and so I know how important the microbiome is in so many areas of our whole body human health and we're going to Just take a journey from the inside out, which is why I'm really excited.
• 3:02
  HelenZee: The microbiome helps us and we need to feed the microbiome to continue to help us.
• 3:08
  HelenZee: Absolutely.
• 3:11
  HelenZee: Do we eat for taste or do we just eat for taste as humans?
• 3:16
  HelenZee: Or can we also eat from a place of knowledge and as well as taste?
• 3:27
  HelenZee: Definitely.
• 3:28
  Cecilia: Yes, not mutually exclusive.
• 3:30
  Cecilia: No.
• 3:31
  Cecilia: And I think you mentioned that knowing about the microbiome and undoubtedly, I'm sure people have started to hear that term a little bit more in the general media and talking about its clear associations with our health and well-being and with respect to even the way our brain ages, our cardiovascular health, our metabolic health.
• 3:54
  Cecilia: And fundamentally, for our fertility and we have been talking about this for many years.
• 4:01
  Cecilia: We've written a book on it and it's exciting to see the evolution of the research in this space as well.
• 4:07
  Cecilia: There's a very clear connection between our microbiome and our fertility and a direct impact.
• 4:14
  Cecilia: So maybe for the audience, a bit of clarification around what our microbiome actually is.
• 4:21
  Cecilia: And when I'm talking about the microbiome, in particular, I'm referring about the trillions of microorganisms that live within your gastrointestinal tract.
• 4:32
  Cecilia: And it's towards the lower end of that, that it really is a hotbed of activity happening in there.
• 4:38
  Cecilia: Based on genome, and I know that you love genes, Helen, we are pretty much just 1% human.
• 4:47
  Cecilia: So our micro genome is outnumbering ours by far, and they are in charge.
• 4:54
  Cecilia: They are in charge of our immune system.
• 4:57
  Cecilia: our metabolic health, looking then at the way our endocrine system works and all our hormones, the way that our brain develops, so many aspects.
• 5:08
  Cecilia: And even down to then looking at creating healthy eggs, healthy sperm, and a healthy uterus for implantation to take place.
• 5:19
  HelenZee: That is massive.
• 5:21
  HelenZee: I am sure for the person listening today, they are going to scroll back a few seconds to the point where you said that we are 1% human.
• 5:33
  HelenZee: That is...
• 5:36
  HelenZee: mind-blowing for a lot of us to hear.
• 5:40
  HelenZee: So what I'm hearing there is we are not just what we see, what we dress.
• 5:48
  HelenZee: We're not just what our physical body is from the outside, but internally there is a complex ecosystem that is alive and thriving.
• 6:03
  Cecilia: Absolutely.
• 6:03
  Cecilia: We have this beautiful symbiotic relationship and we've even shown in some of our research that if you modulate the gut microbiome and essentially deliver lots of antibiotics to wipe out some of that community, you will even change the areas in the brain associated with motivation.
• 6:24
  Cecilia: So this is impacting our behavior, our physiology.
• 6:30
  Cecilia: All of these aspects of our health are intricately linked back to our gut microbiome.
• 6:36
  HelenZee: Amazing.
• 6:37
  HelenZee: Wow.
• 6:38
  HelenZee: So I'm kind of like thinking what I had for breakfast.
• 6:43
  HelenZee: And
• 6:46
  Cecilia: taking that lens in the fertility journey can be quite helpful because often we've lost this, you know, that we're not tuning into what's going on in our body.
• 6:59
  Cecilia: We don't want to listen to our body because it's not doing what we want it to do.
• 7:02
  Cecilia: So there is a bit of a dissociation that happens and we're just going through the motion.
• 7:06
  Cecilia: And sometimes That's my segue into rather than thinking about feeding yourself, let's think about feeding your microbiome and that community just as a step then to help getting people back into tune with what's going on in their bodies.
• 7:25
  HelenZee: Absolutely.
• 7:25
  HelenZee: So when we talk about hormones and fertility, and how the gut biome influences reproductive health, especially from ovulation to implantation.
• 7:37
  HelenZee: I know that you are an expert on this.
• 7:41
  HelenZee: I would love for our audience to get an insight into this research as well as beyond research into the ins and outs and the mechanical way of our body.
• 7:57
  HelenZee: So from ovulation to implantation how the gut biome has an effect on our hormones and our fertility.
• 8:05
  Cecilia: Absolutely, and that's a very big question, but let's try and break it down and you can keep me on track when I start going off on tangents.
• 8:12
  Cecilia: I've got my pen here.
• 8:14
  Unknown: Thank you.
• 8:15
  Cecilia: So when we are thinking about that process from ovulation to implantation, essentially when we're talking about our microbiome and what might be considered a microbiome that's really supportive of that fertility, we are going to have lots of different species living in our gut so they can do lots of different jobs for us.
• 8:39
  Cecilia: They also then are able to produce a whole host and range of different enzymes to help us break down food and actually extract out the nutrients from what we are eating.
• 8:50
  Cecilia: There are going to be lots of species in there that produce enzymes that can help us even balance estrogen levels.
• 8:58
  Cecilia: So for example, there's a particular enzyme group called beta-glucuronidases that are produced by different bacteria that live in our gut.
• 9:07
  Cecilia: And based on their abundance, that can even then influence whether our estrogen levels are a little bit high or they're a little bit low.
• 9:15
  Cecilia: And it's the same in males.
• 9:18
  Cecilia: When you look at males that have really great gut microbiome diversity, there's an association there then between higher testosterone levels, which can again be helpful in that realm of reproduction.
• 9:29
  Cecilia: But these microbes are influencing also our appetite hormones.
• 9:36
  Cecilia: And again, there's a strong link between metabolic health and our egg health and uterine receptivity.
• 9:42
  Cecilia: And particularly when we start to look at insulin resistance and those elements and what's happening with respect to the uterine environment at implantation.
• 9:52
  Cecilia: When we're looking at other hormones, even with respect to then the production of different neurotransmitters like serotonin and GABA and things like that, that influence anxiety and depression and those often go hand in hand with conditions where there is microbiome disruption.
• 10:12
  Cecilia: So in a fertility context, conditions that have been associated with gut microbiome disruption include polycystic ovary syndrome, endometriosis, the presence of fibroids in the uterus, male factor infertility, increased DNA fragmentation of sperm, looking at anovulation or irregular ovulation.
• 10:40
  Cecilia: And our gut microbiome is even associated with how responsive we can be to controlled ovarian stimulation.
• 10:48
  Cecilia: So that process of IVF and the delivering of FSH.
• 10:52
  Cecilia: And then also there's a direct relationship between our gut microbiome composition and frozen embryo transfer success as well.
• 11:03
  Cecilia: Because our microbes are produced all of these chemicals and compounds and metabolites that don't just stay within the gut environment.
• 11:12
  Cecilia: These are actually then going into our bloodstream, influencing the way that our immune cells are activated and even the process of ovulation.
• 11:23
  Cecilia: Now that is in itself, we could spend hours just talking about that because it's such an incredible process and we know that we need inflammation for that to happen.
• 11:34
  Cecilia: We've got to break down the ovary I love them.
• 11:36
  Cecilia: Yes, then break down the wall of the follicle.
• 11:39
  Cecilia: We've got to get that egg out.
• 11:40
  Cecilia: And there's some work showing that if you actually suppress those pathways of inflammation, and that can happen with high-dose steroids or other non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, that you may actually be suppressing ovulation.
• 11:58
  Cecilia: So ovulation might not be taking place.
• 12:01
  Cecilia: And there are many reasons why ovulation might not take place and even just having a menstrual bleed regularly doesn't necessarily mean you're ovulating.
• 12:12
  Cecilia: There's some work they did in large population studies and in 16 to 39% of women that are having a regular menstrual bleed, they were not ovulating that cycle.
• 12:25
  Cecilia: Our body is innately protective of us and if we're stressed, if we're sick, if things just aren't aligned, if we're micronutrient deficient then all of these things will say innately let's not ovulate you're barely looking after yourself and getting through this is not the time to be pregnant so yeah many and again i have gotten off track from the question but
• 12:56
  HelenZee: no no no no actually sparked and we're actually going to circle back um because i've got some questions that i want to explore with you as well, but no, you have not fully come through.
• 13:09
  HelenZee: This process is so important.
• 13:12
  HelenZee: Yeah.
• 13:12
  HelenZee: This is the foundation.
• 13:16
  HelenZee: So what you've actually spoke to in this whole conversation is the foundations and the building blocks, because sure, you can very easily just go, sure, Helen, I'm going to answer that question from ovulation to implantation.
• 13:30
  HelenZee: These are the How would a circle in and talk about the male gut biome and the levels of testosterone a male can have right through to the estro biome, which is all the microbiomes responsible for estrogen regulation, which happens via the gut and sending the transmitters back to the body.
• 14:00
  HelenZee: The enzymes that help extract nutrition from the body.
• 14:04
  HelenZee: When I'm working with clients, I ask for a food diary and I also ask for when they poop, how much water they drink and how they sleep.
• 14:15
  HelenZee: So I'm getting an overall essence of what daily active life is like because then we can do habit stacking to change that around.
• 14:26
  HelenZee: So many times I see a very full food diary, which is dotted with malabsorption and malnutrition.
• 14:35
  HelenZee: So the quantity of food that we eat is not necessarily absorbable and also not the right types of food that we're not getting the building blocks that we need to be able to facilitate our health.
• 14:53
  HelenZee: And so what you've shared here is absolute gold.
• 14:58
  HelenZee: Absolute gold.
• 15:01
  Cecilia: There's even work showing, if we're talking again about that direct connection between nutrition and fertility.
• 15:09
  Cecilia: Just globally, if you have a more, essentially you can quantify the inflammatory index of a diet and that's looking at the intake of things that we know tend to promote more pro-inflammatory cytokines, things like trans fats and saturated fats and a lot of animal products in the diet and things like that.
• 15:31
  Cecilia: So in people that have a very high inflammation inflammatory diet index, there's a 60% greater risk of infertility.
• 15:41
  Cecilia: And then as we come back down and we start to break it down even further, in people that are getting large amounts of L-carnitine, for example, that comes primarily from red meat, what we see then are often high circulating levels of a particular compound called TMAO.
• 16:02
  Cecilia: And essentially, when the you look in the follicular fluid of women that are producing higher quality embryos, their levels of TMAO are lower.
• 16:14
  Cecilia: And in women where those levels are quite high, there's even less chance of fertilization taking place and lower quality embryos.
• 16:25
  Cecilia: So direct connections.
• 16:27
  Cecilia: You can even in, there's a, this might sound a little bit obscure, but the fruit fly Drosophilia is actually, I think we share about 75% of disease-causing genes.
• 16:40
  Cecilia: So it's actually used quite commonly in models of disease and exploration in the research context.
• 16:47
  Cecilia: If you actually strip out their microbiome from that fruit fly, their eggs in the ovary will not develop as well and their mitochondria is impacted all because they're not getting the cofactors necessary.
• 17:04
  Cecilia: for the production of healthy eggs, enhancing the metabolic health of our mitochondria, having them functioning really well.
• 17:13
  Cecilia: And all of these, again, are linked to the composition of that gut microbiome.
• 17:20
  HelenZee: Wow.
• 17:20
  HelenZee: You've taken me back to my biological science days where I have etherised many, many drosophila for our studies.
• 17:33
  HelenZee: Through that degree, my gosh.
• 17:37
  HelenZee: I said that if I ever get a pet, I'm going to call it dross, which I haven't done because of all the fruit flies that ended up being etherized.
• 17:49
  HelenZee: And
• 17:50
  Cecilia: these preclinical models are really quite important in trying to understand, definitely.
• 17:56
  Cecilia: We've seen preclinical models of endometriosis.
• 18:00
  Cecilia: If you have more beautiful beneficial gut bacteria that are producing beautiful that reduces endometrial lesion growth.
• 18:09
  HelenZee: My goodness.
• 18:10
  HelenZee: At the upcoming Melbourne Expo, I want to see you in every corner because you can...
• 18:14
  HelenZee: very easily go, yep, and this is the research.
• 18:19
  HelenZee: And this is the changes.
• 18:22
  HelenZee: These are the changes that can really make a difference.
• 18:26
  HelenZee: It's an inside job, that's for sure.
• 18:29
  HelenZee: As you were talking on, you know, we've really have taken one question and we've unraveled it.
• 18:38
  HelenZee: So we're just going to be playing with that in and out.
• 18:41
  HelenZee: Where you were talking about even, so we've touched on the enzymes that actually help extract the nutrients from the food so then we are more well fed through our cells, our mitochondria.
• 18:58
  HelenZee: Now you're also talking about the microbiome as even as a fetus is growing my sense is that reoccurring miscarriages can also be a result of the microbiome Because where you were talking about the expandedness of whatever is happening in the gut then comes out into the transfers into the bloodstream.
• 19:29
  HelenZee: We also know that through the placenta and the umbilical cord, there is that relationship and that transfer between mother and baby.
• 19:38
  HelenZee: So basically, epigenetically, we are passing on a healthy genome for future generations and also impacting the potential reproductive outcome of our tiny, beautiful baby that is growing inside of us.
• 19:58
  Cecilia: Absolutely.
• 20:00
  Cecilia: And there's a lot of work showing in women that might experience recurrent implantation failure and early pregnancy loss, recurrent miscarriage, but there is that connection with microbiome disruption.
• 20:13
  Cecilia: So when I talk about about dysbiosis or microbiome disruption.
• 20:17
  Cecilia: And if someone tells you that they can tell you specifically exactly what an ideal microbiome looks like, that's a bit of a red flag.
• 20:28
  Cecilia: So we all have a microbiome that's almost as individual as the fingerprint.
• 20:34
  Cecilia: We might only share a third of species between us.
• 20:36
  Cecilia: And so what we can do, though, is we can look at general groupings of species.
• 20:42
  Cecilia: And importantly, we can look at functions of what What are they doing?
• 20:45
  Cecilia: What metabolites are they producing?
• 20:47
  Cecilia: Because that lets us know how that community is operating.
• 20:49
  Cecilia: As you know, you can have, there's two different ways to build a house, but ultimately at the end, it's still a house.
• 20:56
  Cecilia: And that's the same.
• 20:57
  Cecilia: You can have microbiomes that look quite different, but they might be doing similar functions.
• 21:02
  Cecilia: And that's what we're interested in.
• 21:03
  Cecilia: So when we're talking about even placenta development early on, there's a clear connection to the maternal microbiome and the particular metabolites that they're producing.
• 21:17
  Cecilia: Again, in preclinical work, we're seeing that if that microbiome is a little bit disrupted, it's even impacting then the vessel growth and that antigenesis that happens in the placenta for the delivery of nutrients.
• 21:34
  Cecilia: We can see impacts particularly with placental abruption and those components as well having an association to the microbiome.
• 21:46
  Cecilia: When we're looking at traversing a healthy pregnancy, there's a clear relationship too between that preeclampsia and microbiome composition.
• 21:58
  Cecilia: And just as you were talking about the epigenetic component and us imprinting on our future children, their health, more and more research is now starting to appreciate that.
• 22:11
  Cecilia: We used to think it was just potentially maternal seeding of the microbiome through a vaginal delivery.
• 22:17
  Cecilia: But we're starting to appreciate, well, maybe it's some of the butyrate and beautiful compounds that our microbes are producing that are then changing the placenta.
• 22:26
  Cecilia: And again, with that maternal interface between mother and mum having an impact there, and even the paternal genome at the time of conception impacting future children's behaviour and health.
• 22:41
  HelenZee: Yes, yes.
• 22:43
  HelenZee: Yes, and that has now been shown and proven.
• 22:47
  HelenZee: I remember when I was writing my book, I was ready, my publishing, I was ready to hit go.
• 22:54
  HelenZee: And then I had to pull it back because I found the research study that showed that with the placenta, what faces the baby is an influence of the sperm genome in the health of the placenta as well as the health contribution to the baby.
• 23:12
  HelenZee: And it's not just the mother.
• 23:14
  HelenZee: And I needed to pull the book away.
• 23:16
  HelenZee: I said, sorry, you don't have a week of publishing.
• 23:20
  HelenZee: I've just gone ready to hand it over.
• 23:22
  HelenZee: I went, nope, sorry.
• 23:24
  HelenZee: I need to add this research in here now because more and more we are now saying, okay, we are believing and trusting that male factor fertility is huge in the outcomes of healthy pregnancies and and the health of our future.
• 23:46
  HelenZee: Absolutely.
• 23:48
  Cecilia: This is 50-50 and it is something that we, you know, everyone's individual has a very different journey to parenthood and there are many different ways now to make a baby, which is fantastic.
• 23:58
  Cecilia: But if we are working with a male and female trying to conceive, it is incredibly important that it's 50-50.
• 24:05
  Cecilia: Our eggs within them have repair pathways to change the DNA integrity of sperm and do that repair work.
• 24:14
  Cecilia: with methylation and all of those components.
• 24:17
  Cecilia: So when that sperm is coming and it's not just good, but it is amazing, that means our egg does less repair work.
• 24:25
  Cecilia: And there's even studies showing that when DNA fragmentation of the sperm is even in a lower range, below 15%, where most specialists and clinics would say, that's fantastic, you get a gold medal.
• 24:38
  Cecilia: There's a difference in how many blastocysts or DNA fragmentation drops to 8% versus 13%.
• 24:49
  Cecilia: So these are still normal, but it's going out extra less repair work.
• 24:53
  Cecilia: This is absolutely teamwork.
• 24:55
  Cecilia: Even the work showing that the delivery of sperm in that uterine environment will initiate the recruitment of white blood cells that then will be impacting on the process of implementation.
• 25:11
  Cecilia: And there's lots of work showing if Sengen's delivery into the uterus, you know, in that time period around transfer, that transfer can be more successful because, again, of those interrelationships that exist and we're often just looked at as a silo when we go into a clinic and it's incredibly important to look at the whole aspects that are involved.
• 25:36
  HelenZee: I agree.
• 25:37
  HelenZee: I've interviewed a client.
• 25:41
  HelenZee: They've had their children now but they've been on an incredible journey and literally touched on a lot of the things that we're touching on today so in a typical and I say this typically because I see it in my practice all the time it will be the woman that comes in what do I need to do what do I need to fix what do I need to nurture because that's this essence of the feminine that is wanting to nurture via our nature so we're wanting to nurture that environment when we start to talk about the male counterparty it's like, no, not just yet.
• 26:16
  HelenZee: Let's just do it with me.
• 26:17
  HelenZee: And so then it was the course of natural fertility, IVF, reoccurring miscarriages.
• 26:27
  HelenZee: And then I just kept saying, we need to also look for male factor.
• 26:32
  HelenZee: I'd like you to go and get DNA fragmentation testing.
• 26:37
  HelenZee: No, my, you know, originally it was like, no, my specialist says it's not a thing.
• 26:42
  HelenZee: And I just went, well, Well, as an advocate, I'd say it may not be a thing because it's not a protocol yet from a doctor's prescription, but it is a protocol with integrative allied health.
• 26:56
  HelenZee: And so putting them onto an allied health professional, doing the DNA fragmentation, when her hubby started making the changes, which did include the microbiome and some simple things about when to drink water and when to drink coffee in the day made a huge difference.
• 27:17
  HelenZee: So something that simple.
• 27:18
  HelenZee: They went on and became pregnant naturally.
• 27:22
  HelenZee: And so it really, over a course of years, going through those steps, introducing the responsibility for what we can do for the male made a difference in the end.
• 27:36
  HelenZee: So what if we can do that a lot earlier and be synergistically with that 50-50% of that masculine and the feminine coming together in cleaning, clearing, having the right testing done, which I'd love to talk to you about.
• 27:56
  HelenZee: I'd really love our listeners to have a sense.
• 28:00
  HelenZee: And I know you said it's a fingerprint, so it's very unique.
• 28:03
  HelenZee: But my sense is that there are diagnostics that people can look at as a first function and how even people can work with you and your guidance.
• 28:16
  HelenZee: And even if we can talk about, so now I'm throwing a whole heap of questions in your direction, even if we can talk about habit stacking during the day, how we can habit stack and possibly supplement stack where needed to help feed the microbiome.
• 28:37
  Cecilia: Right.
• 28:37
  Cecilia: Okay.
• 28:38
  Cecilia: A lot in there.
• 28:38
  Cecilia: You will, again, have to remind me.
• 28:41
  HelenZee: You have inspired me.
• 28:42
  HelenZee: I just went.
• 28:44
  Cecilia: And I think through the process and just the thousands of clients we've worked with, everyone is an individual.
• 28:53
  Cecilia: That's such an important component here because sometimes people might just be relying on, or I'm reading this information, or I'm doing this, or I'm taking the supplement.
• 29:04
  Cecilia: It might not be appropriate for them and their circumstance.
• 29:06
  Cecilia: And they might not even really understand why they're undergoing assisted reproductive treatments or having trouble conceiving.
• 29:16
  Cecilia: And so always coming back to identify what are the factors at play here?
• 29:22
  Cecilia: What's likely, what are the elements we're identifying that we could enhance to support your fertility?
• 29:28
  Cecilia: And of course, through that component, we deliver accredited exercise physiology services, so physical activity is such a big modulator of our microbiome and inflammation and fertility.
• 29:41
  Cecilia: And then going through the process of doing an individual dietary analysis, it gets down to understanding, yeah, what are the patterns and what sort of food options are you choosing, but also what micronutrients are you actually getting from your diet.
• 29:58
  Cecilia: And again, we understand that's just one component because people can be eating well, but if their microbiome community is not great to extract the nutrients then you know that necessarily won't be translating to improved absorption and extraction so we can look at nutrition we also have a psychologist to look at that you know mental health and well-being because changing habits is really difficult and that support to help people implement change according to their own environment their own needs their own goal And what they're looking to achieve.
• 30:45
  Cecilia: rather than what you're taking away or depriving yourself of, which often is the sole focus in the fertility journey and that worry of, am I doing the right thing?
• 31:18
  Cecilia: Is this appropriate?
• 31:20
  Cecilia: So even when we're talking about supplementation, there are definitely some key foundational things we'll be recommending because of that clear relationship to fertility outcomes and gut microbiome support.
• 31:36
  Cecilia: And then looking at an individual to understand, do you have other conditions?
• 31:42
  Cecilia: What else is likely going on with your pathology and biology?
• 31:45
  Cecilia: What else do we need to offer additional support?
• 31:48
  Cecilia: But food first in that context too, someone could take all the supplements in the world, but if their gut microbiome isn't a beautiful, healthy community helping them extract those nutrients, then they can often pare things back.
• 32:06
  Cecilia: And often people come into us with a list of supplements, you know, 10, 15 that they're taking.
• 32:10
  Cecilia: And yet they might not be sleeping.
• 32:14
  Cecilia: They might not be having a great, beautiful, diverse diet, you know, full of lovely plant-based foods and, you know, having those predominate across the week.
• 32:22
  Cecilia: So we want to really help people make sustainable changes.
• 32:28
  Cecilia: So very much we're looking at the individual coming up with a plan that suits their circumstances and their biology and their physiology.
• 32:40
  Cecilia: You can look at the gut microbiome and there are a number of ways to do that.
• 32:46
  Cecilia: We use receptor-grade technology doing metagenomic shotgun sequencing, which is the gold standard for microbiome assessment.
• 32:55
  Cecilia: And again, if it's indicated for someone to go to that level and take a look at what they're doing and the function of that microbiome, we can do that.
• 33:04
  Cecilia: But even people presenting and the discussion of symptoms or what they might be facing, you can make some assumptions that the microbiome might need a little bit of extra love and start to implement those beneficial strategies that make a difference.
• 33:21
  HelenZee: Beautiful.
• 33:22
  HelenZee: So it's through food and supplementation as and when needed is what I'm hearing as the rule of thumb in creating sustainable change.
• 33:36
  Cecilia: And exercise and stress reduction.
• 33:40
  Cecilia: All these beautiful things.
• 33:42
  Cecilia: I'm an exercise
• 33:45
  HelenZee: professional and yoga teacher.
• 33:46
  HelenZee: I've been for 20 years.
• 33:49
  HelenZee: So still running regular classes today.
• 33:53
  HelenZee: So I'm hearing you and I've got both my hands up in the air, literally just going, yes, absolutely.
• 34:01
  HelenZee: Exercise is paramount for for our health and our vitality.
• 34:09
  HelenZee: Yeah, for sure.
• 34:10
  HelenZee: Wonderful, wonderful.
• 34:15
  HelenZee: Thank you.
• 34:16
  HelenZee: So in the show notes, we'll be able to tell people how they can get in contact with you and work with you and your incredible team of people that you've got around you to support a person's journey.
• 34:31
  HelenZee: And what I'm hearing is that when you come on as a client, you've got access to And the number of different professionals under your allied health practice.
• 34:41
  HelenZee: So it's not like you need to be shepherded off somewhere else in another suburb or another clinic that you literally can be taken care of in the wings of your practice.
• 34:54
  Cecilia: Definitely.
• 34:55
  Cecilia: And also to appreciating that communication then that happens behind the scenes between your treating team with us and your specialist as well, if that's relevant to your circumstances.
• 35:06
  Cecilia: Totally.
• 35:06
  Cecilia: important.
• 35:07
  Cecilia: Yeah absolutely and again you know most people are like oh well how many visits or who do I see it's like well until we meet with you and really understand your individual circumstances we can't necessarily know what your journey looks like but I think it's in the foundational moments to appreciate fertility treatments do not change egg and sperm health or uterine receptivity.
• 35:34
  Cecilia: These are all of the aspects that we're working on from an evidence-based science perspective, things that have been shown to support fertility and create beneficial change.
• 35:47
  Cecilia: And we want to be the conduit to help you implement those and get access to information that will help take some load off because you're not going to be worrying about, is this the right thing?
• 35:59
  Cecilia: Am I doing too much or not enough or how do I structure this?
• 36:02
  Cecilia: We want to be that landing space to support you.
• 36:07
  Cecilia: And every member of our team has had their children through fertility treatments and we've all experienced losses.
• 36:15
  Cecilia: And so while that doesn't change our evidence-based practice and expertise, I think it brings a lens that means we can really understand
• 36:31
  HelenZee: what the load is that you carry through the process.
• 36:34
  HelenZee: It takes us to the heart of fertility, my friend.
• 36:36
  HelenZee: It takes us to the heart of fertility.
• 36:39
  HelenZee: Everything that we have experienced is the wisdom keeping that gets passed on for the people that we are working with.
• 36:48
  HelenZee: And even if it is people that...
• 36:51
  HelenZee: experienced pregnancy very easily like there's stories in that as well there is wisdom in that as well and that's what we're here to do this is the the wisdom keepers that just keep sharing with with who is in front of us to help us I know for myself, I just see families or experiences, even me going out on the weekend and hiking and then just see this little kid, tiny little kid who would have only been about maybe two years old and he's on this little scooter and he's going downhill super fast, got a helmet on, got all his stuff on.
• 37:39
  HelenZee: But there was this absolute level of trust with his parents being behind, letting Letting him go and building his confidence in that he can also go as fast as his sister.
• 37:51
  HelenZee: And I just sat there, I was meditating at the time, and I just sat there and I said, this is my why.
• 37:56
  HelenZee: This is why I do what I do, because I want people to experience the absolute delightfulness by raising their children, having these different experiences, seeing the lens of the world in a different way, because it really does change when you've got a child, you're of the world the lens of what you look out it changes because you are creating this experience with this you know where I'll say where big feet go little feet follow you
• 38:26
  Cecilia: know yeah we want everyone to have that opportunity and yeah it's why we do what we do
• 38:36
  HelenZee: what we do in finishing up Cecilia you've been very very generous with your time as well as your wisdom We like asking a question here on the Home of Fertility is, what is your superpower?
• 38:53
  HelenZee: What is your superpower?
• 38:57
  HelenZee: Bring it in.
• 39:00
  HelenZee: Let us know.
• 39:02
  Cecilia: I think I'm really lucky to have a bit of a unique mix of experience and diversity through my career.
• 39:14
  Cecilia: that lets me bring a different lens to looking at a client that's having trouble getting pregnant.
• 39:20
  Cecilia: And part of that might be because of the combination of molecular biology and immunology and physiology and endometriosis and all of these other conditions that we've had experience with or immune diseases and being able to look at a client, understand their symptoms, listen to their journey, look at their pathology, and start to pinpoint the factors that might be impacting conception.
• 39:51
  Cecilia: And part of that style in the multidisciplinary team and we'll identify things that someone might need to go back to the specialist to have a discussion with and empower them with the language to be able to do that, which is incredibly important as well when you're going through this journey and learning a whole new language in the space of assisted reproductive treatments.
• 40:12
  Cecilia: And really identifying this is probably the key factor at play that is having an influence on conception.
• 40:23
  Cecilia: And we might not necessarily always have the answers for that, but again, working within a multidisciplinary team and other health professionals that, you know, invested in this space to really support someone in addressing those factors for a different outcome.
• 40:43
  Cecilia: I
• 40:44
  HelenZee: love that.
• 40:44
  HelenZee: As you were talking, I got into this image of a eagle that has got this massive wingspan and can have the breadth of vision but also minusculely go down and know that's where my lunch is, that's where my dinner is.
• 41:05
  HelenZee: So having that breadth of vision but also that finite, minuscule laser vision of being able to go right down and in into a root cause.
• 41:19
  Cecilia: That's my reflection.
• 41:22
  Cecilia: I like the visual.
• 41:23
  Cecilia: I like the visual.
• 41:24
  Cecilia: That's my reflection.
• 41:27
  Cecilia: Many people come and they are like, why did no one tell me this before?
• 41:30
  Cecilia: Why has no one looked at this before?
• 41:33
  Cecilia: Why am I just getting the answers?
• 41:35
  Cecilia: And it's just about that connection between members of your team that are supporting you.
• 41:41
  Cecilia: And I think when there's open communication, that just is the foundation for a much smoother experience.
• 41:50
  Cecilia: Yeah.
• 41:51
  Cecilia: Yeah.
• 41:52
  Cecilia: Yeah.
• 41:55
  HelenZee: Dr.
• 41:55
  HelenZee: Cecilia, it has been an absolute pleasure to spend time with you today, fleshing out the juiciness of the microbiome and they must be having a damn good party in there a lot of the time, right?
• 42:12
  Cecilia: If we're feeding them, they are pretty happy.
• 42:15
  HelenZee: Exactly.
• 42:16
  HelenZee: So I'm just thinking let's provide some really good party food to the microbiome so then they can keep having an awesome time and give us the energy, give us the vitality that we need to be able to see ourselves through the longevity of our life.
• 42:37
  HelenZee: Absolutely.
• 42:39
  Cecilia: Yes.
• 42:39
  Cecilia: Feed those microbes.
• 42:41
  HelenZee: Feed those microbes.
• 42:42
  HelenZee: Thank you so much.
• 42:44
  HelenZee: We'll have some show notes of how people can get in contact with you.
• 42:48
  HelenZee: And because this is the season of the Melbourne Fertility Expo, I am super excited that I to meet you in person and that we get to showcase you to a room full of people for your keynote presentation as well as being on a panel to be able to talk with other professionals as well as our public who are curious to know more.
• 43:15
  Cecilia: This is going to be an incredible resource for anyone in this space or on the fringes that is going to be the The lineup is incredible of the people that you are bringing together with their expertise and knowledge.
• 43:32
  Cecilia: And I would encourage, do not hesitate, come along because there's going to be so much valuable insight.
• 43:40
  HelenZee: Yeah, super proud.
• 43:41
  HelenZee: And it's not a solo journey.
• 43:44
  HelenZee: We put it out there and then incredible people come together and we're all under one space.
• 43:51
  HelenZee: And I feel it's the village that people don't know that they need unless they come and then say like you said so beautifully a few minutes ago why didn't anybody tell me about this yeah
• 44:07
  Cecilia: thank
• 44:08
  HelenZee: you Helen Thanks for joining us at the home of fertility.
• 44:14
  HelenZee: We hope today's episode brought you clarity, comfort and connection.
• 44:21
  LizWalton: If this podcast resonated, please share it, leave a review or subscribe.
• 44:26
  LizWalton: This helps us support more people that are on this path.
• 44:31
  HelenZee: And if you'd like to connect or share your story, find us on Instagram and Facebook at Australian Fertility Summit.
• 44:40
  LizWalton: Remember the missing piece might be waiting in a story your body's wisdom or something new just made for you take care and we'll see you next time