Latest / Giving Pain Purpose with Lyndsay Soprano / Making Cannabis Personal

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Making Cannabis Personal · Giving Pain Purpose with Lyndsay Soprano

• This is your pain game podcast where we talk about the game of living in >> Lyndsay Soprano: This is your pain game podcast, where we talk about the game of living in and with chronic pain and trauma getting to the heart of how to heal. I am your host, Lyndsay Soprano. On this show, I plan on discussing with doctors, chronic pain patients, holistic practitioners, loved ones, and anybody that is interested in having their voice heard in the chronic pain and trauma world that we live in. Oh, man. Guys, remember the days when we were sneaking around behind our parents back to smoke pot? Or as my sweetie likes to call it, grass. He still calls it grass. And there's a little bit of an age difference between the two of us, as you guys know. And now I am giving my parents advice on which gummies to take. And I love talking about cannabis with my parents because they're now starting to use it as well for their myriad of issues. And, you know, I've taken so many products over the years and spent gobs and gobs of money to help me with pain, insomnia, anxiety, sleep. I mean, the mountains of things that I need help with, they get larger and larger sometimes, and all of those are intertwined from my perspective, and tied up with stress. Right. But what I've just recently learned from my guests that we're going to be talking to today is that I have been doing this all wrong. And, today we're going to try to fix that. So we're going to talk today about taking the guesswork out of your cannabis and CBD experience by tailoring it to your DNA. It's all about individualized medicine that can prolong good health, increase longevity, and allow us to, quite frankly, live a better life. Len May is a trailblazer in personalized medicine and medicinal cannabis So, without further ado, I would like to introduce you today to my guest, Len May. Hello, darling. >> Len May: How you doing? Thank you for having me on. >> Lyndsay Soprano: I'm doing great. Thank God you are here, because you are going to help save me and many others. This is such an interesting topic that we're going to talk about today. So before we go, let me introduce him. So, Len is a trailblazer in personalized medicine, the global authority on medicinal cannabis and the endocannabinoid system. And he is the CEO and co founder of Endodna, a, groundbreaking platform that harnesses the power of DNA to unlock personalized genotypes, paving the way for tailored health recommendations in the world of cannabis. He's also the author of the book making Cannabis personal and is the host of the very popular everything is personal podcast. A lot to say, and we've got a lot to talk about today, so I'm rolling out the red carpet for you, babe. I never really realized that cannabis was a medicine for other people And I'd like to start talking about what steered you onto the path of making cannabis personal, to help others, not unlike myself and yourself. And let's kind of take it from there. >> Len May: Well, I never really realized that cannabis was a medicine for other people. I thought it was something that I was using to help me with my additive, because when I was, diagnosed with add, when I was a, teenage put me on prescription medication, and I met some older kids. They asked me if I wanted to smoke a cigarette. I was like, cool, I'll smoke a cigarette. Never question why it was only one cigarette. But, they passed it around. I took a drag. I didn't taste like a cigarette, took another one. And they were all laughing at me. I was like, yeah, we put weed in a cigarette. Like, oh, okay. I went to class, and the windows are open in my head, sort of narrowed. I could focus. So even quote unquote recreationally when we were, and this is back in the eighties, and I would hang out with friends, and we would try to get weed, but I never told anybody that cannabis was also affecting me in a different way. And we never had that conversation. You know, you smoke, you laugh, and listen to music and all that stuff. It wasn't really I didn't think about as medicine until I became the president of the cannabis Action Network. And I held a rally at Independence hall in Philadelphia, where I was living, where I'm from, and my keynote speaker was this woman named Elvie Masica. And she was, one of the first people to get medically prescribed cannabis under a federal program, which is odd, because cannabis is federally illegal on schedule one. But they still have this program where they would cultivate cannabis, put it in these tin jars with a USDA label on it, and she was consuming in front of federal rangers where, like, the Liberty Bell is and where Constitution declaration independence are written on hemp paper, by the way. But. So we went back to our, to my house, and everybody crashed in my house afterwards, and we got woken up to a really loud noise. And, the girl I was seeing at the time, she was an artist. She made this big sculpture. It was my house, and lv happened to walk into it and break it, and she felt so bad, but she had genitive glaucoma, and she couldn't see. She was legally blind at that time. I saw her medicate with cannabis. She still wore glasses, but she could see. So this is the first time that I actually communicated with somebody who actually had a medical condition where cannabis relieves, that symptom. And I'm like, oh, well, maybe there is more to it. So I started doing a deeper dive in the cannabinoid system. You know, here we are, and the. >> Lyndsay Soprano: Rest is history there, right? Well, I found that. And I, in reading your book, which is incredibly, I mean, I powered through this thing. There's more yellow in this book highlighted in dog eared than there is not. Because I, find that for me, I also, with my pain and the things that have happened to me with my bod over the past decade, basically that there's nothing that can touch it outside of CBD and THC with me. But I know that I'm not doing it right. I'm not some, I'm somebody that throws spaghetti at the wall. But I do take, like, notes, like when I take it, how it affects me, how long it takes to do it, especially cause I like the gummies part of it. But we're gonna get into a little bit about how our bodies actually metabolize and the best type of, CBD and THC that we're supposed to have, which I feel like I'm doing it all wrong. So you might say, oh, wow, you're doing it great. But I don't, after reading your book, I'm like, nope, I definitely need you. Endocannabinoid system was only discovered in 1992 by doctor Rafel Michonne And you mentioned the endocannabinoid system, and that is a, a little bit of a difficult word to pronounce fast, but it is unbelievable how crucial it is to regulating, like, everything in our bodies. Can you talk a little bit about why that is and how powerful it is and then we can talk a little bit more? >> Len May: Yeah, I mean, it's really interesting because, you know, we trust our doctors, we trust our healthcare professionals, but there's so many more things that we don't know about ourselves than we do know. And, you know, think about this system. The endocannabinoid system was only discovered in 1992 by doctor Rafel Michonne. So if people went to school, before that, they never even heard of this system. So we're operating with a major part of our system that's unknown. And when it was discovered, it's really our primary modulating system. So what it does, it gets signals from the other systems in our bodies, like our endocrine system or immune system. Digestive sends that signal up the central nervous system, like salmon swimming upstream and into our brain. And then our brain makes a decision which endogenous endocannabinoids to release and what endogenous means we produce them ourselves. And, they're just neurochemicals, like any other neurochemical that we would produce, like dopamine or serotonin, etcetera. But the two that our system uses are the first ones called anandamide. So the word ananda means bliss and sanskrit. This is our bliss, molecule. And when we run, we get the runners high sometimes, or eating certain types of foods, like chocolate, we get that little bit of, ah, euphoria. That's an andamide being released into your bloodstream. And the second one is called two ag. And the reason why these are important is because we have receptors. So think about it this way. Humans evolved, you know, millions of years, and that evolution, there are certain things that are evolved out of our cells, so we don't need those anymore. And, but the endocannabinoid system and those receptors still exist. So we are connected to this plant genetically because we have receptors filled in. So we're consuming cannabis. The raw plant has an acid molecule associated with it. So when you actually heat cannabis, it's called decarboxylation, it drops the acid molecule, and it converts, it to delta nine THC, which is what gets us high. But the way that it works is it binds to your cb one receptors, which are mostly located in your brain, your central nervous system, and release anandamide. And when we consume CBD, it has an affinity for the cb two receptors, which are located in our immune digestive system or in our body. So kind of brain and body, and both of those, we have receptors. Like I said, this plant allows us to subsidize for things that we may naturally be deficient in. So we may not be producing enough of our own endogenous neurochemicals. That's why the plant works in conjunction with us. When we get a signal, through our brain that something is sort of out of balance, then our brain will release those neurochemicals to get us back to what's called homeostasis, or balance. >> Lyndsay Soprano: Boy, do we all need balance. I mean, and reading your book, that part of it, I'm like, oh, I know my balance is all out of whack. And my body is, my body's been in fight or flight for as long as I can possibly remember at this point in time. And I know that we're missing something, and that's something that I, it's the reason why I started this show is to find people like yourself. Because I'm like, I will not take opiates. I will not take pain pills. I know my. I know my personality type. I have an addictive personality, and I'm so addictive to be around. But, you know, it's like, it's one of those, those things where, you know, well, try this, try that. And I do. And it helps me to a certain extent, but I know that my body actually responds to it so well with how I'm doing it. I know that it can be better and much more optimized. I mean, when you're talking about the endocannabinoid system, like you were mentioning, you're talking about your central nervous system, your gastrointestinal, your hormones, like your bones. I was surprised about bones when I was reading your book, too. It was like, my bones, and my bones hurts all day long. It feels like the bone marrow in my bones is burning from the inside out all day. And so I have, like, far more hope in using cannabis than I ever have since reading your book, just so you know. And I'm not blowing sunshine up your ass here, buddy. It's, like, legit. And so. And also, by the way, this guy's hung out with, like, so many amazing people, and I, over the years, and my. I am so jealous that you've gotten to hang out with snoop. I mean, like, let's. Let's take just a quick break on that. Like snoop Dogg, please. I'm so jealous. >> Len May: Yeah, there's been a lot of experiences like that. There were, you know, cannabis back in the day. you know, by having cannabis, it gives you unique sort of, entry into different situations. I remember Slick Rick when he got out of jail, and I was in Philly in a really small club, questlove from the roots. He was playing drums in the corner. It's called Silk City was the name of the place. And he came up. There was a group called the Goats. And Slickrook just got out of jail and came up. I was in the front row, and he's like, anybody have a joint? I haven't smoked, and I got to smoke with him on stage. I had one, and I passed m back. Many situations like that. I get into clubs in New York where you smoke with the bouncers and know you build those connections. But, the industry morphed into, now that it is a multibillion dollar industry, you have this sort of dichotomy with the long beard growers who have been in it in the black market for years. And then you have suits sitting, in these conference rooms, and it's like, how did they even interact? Because it's such a different type of environment, but, yeah, it's been. It's been an interesting journey. >> Lyndsay Soprano: Well, and it's neat that we've been able to shake the taboo behind it as well. You know, I mean, just like how I was opening about my parents. I mean, my. I come from a very, very, very strict, christian, right wing home, which is obviously complete opposite of me. But, it is so awesome that you can have conversations about this now, and it's not. You're not frowned upon, you know, and that. That is something that is, I think, crucial, because, man, oh, man, I know that we're beating. We're competing with big pharma in this conversation, you know? And I certainly hope that we continue to, because this is something that I think is so much more personalized to us than any of these pills that people are putting us on. First of all, understand your own endocannabinoid system And when you spoke about add, I've never been diagnosed with add, but when I read after our conversation together, and then in reading your book, I have noticed that when I take my. I have, like, a timer on my phone that goes off when I'm supposed to take it. I don't, like, just overuse it just because I feel like getting stoned or whatever. I'm very calculated about what I do. My alarm goes off, I take my gummy, and then it kicks in, and I am, like, tunnel focused. And I never noticed that I was able to do it until I read your book about it, because I'm like, oh, my gosh, I get so much more accomplished when my gummy kicks in a little bit. And that's fascinating to me. Why is that? >> Len May: Well, I think it's a personal experience, because a lot of times, if you have anandamide that's being flooded into your bloodstream, THC is a very narrow therapeutic window. When you find the right ratio for you now, it may shut off other executive functions so you can hyperfocus. And actually, so you're not. Those scroll moments go away. And also, in add or ADHD, I never had the hyperactive part. What happens is when you find something that's stimulating and it's squirting enough dopamine, you can hyperfocus for hours. Like, for me, it was painting, for instance, or hiking. I, used to paint in the studio, and the guy who ran the studio would tap me on the shoulder. He's like, we're closing up. What do you mean? I just got here. That's 5 hours, 1 minute. >> Lyndsay Soprano: I just didn't even say 5 hours. >> Len May: I didn't even notice. >> Lyndsay Soprano: Wow. >> Len May: Because it's the stimulation, and that's where your brain is always looking for that squirt of dopamine, because you have, dopamine depletion. That's why you're always doing multiple things, reading a book. So I was just talking to somebody the other day, you know, read books. I'm like, you know what? I don't read books that much anymore. I listen to audible because when I read a book, I have three of them at the same time. So I get one, I'm like, all right, I'm bored with this one. I open up another one, and it just, you know, I have to create systems for myself. So there's all these different things. First of all, understand your own endocannabinoid system. Now, understanding method of consumption. How do you consume? And the plant is complicated. It has, like, over 400 different molecules in it. So understanding how complicated the plant is, if you're taking a gummy, you may be just consuming the isolated THC molecule, and plus you're metabolizing it. Through your first pass, your liver takes that, ah, delta nine THC, converts it to a metabolite, which is eleven oxyhydroxide. Delta nine THC then goes back up to your bloodstream, m binds your receptors, but you have a different experience. And if you're a slow metabolizer, first of all, the onset may be slower and may be a lot more powerful, and it can last longer. So really understanding your own self, like doing a DNA test to me, is your life's gps. So understanding where your own potholes are in your own road, understanding and knowing that makes you more empowered to make better decisions for your own health and wellness. And, you know, if I'm going to do this, I may actually affect that. So making lifestyle choices, just because you have a genetic predisposition, it doesn't mean it's going to epigenetically express itself. But just by knowing that. So you were talking about, you know, dependence, and, there's genetics for that as well. One of the reasons why we have this opioid crisis is because one in four people may have a genotype that makes some dependent on opioids. So if there's four of us in a room and we all get an oxy, one of us can trigger that dependence gene, and that's it. So just understanding how many doctors prescribe an opioid without unknowing that this person may have an opioid, dependence gene. What about depression? how many, psychopharmacologists prescribe, antidepressants without understanding that there's a treatment resistant genotype. And some people may not, it'll never work for them, but they'll still get all the side effects. But it's okay because we have a pill for the side effects. >> Lyndsay Soprano: Of course we do. Yeah, yeah, it causes this, and then take this because it causes this. And now you're taking ten damn pills. It's like, come on. And that's why I stayed away from it. initially, when I was diagnosed, I mean, I followed western medicine. That's basically all I had ever known. And then slowly but surely, I was getting worse and not better. I was forgetting 50% of my life. I mean, there are people that are like, don't you remember that? And I'm like, absolutely not. I have absolutely no recollection of any of that that happened in my life. And that's scary in and of itself, which I've never experienced using cannabis products at all. But in reading your book as well, talking about how and to support what you were just saying is how sometimes it causes people to be paranoid. You know, I remember that when we were, teenagers, and you know how we're like, oh, my God, paranoia set in, and a lot of that is because we're afraid of getting in trouble. But, yeah, the paranoia, it sets in with my sweetie. He'll ever, every now and again, he'll have a gummy with me. But he does not like to get stone. He doesn't like to be high, but I know with him, he eats gobs of Ambien. I don't want him to take Ambien anymore. I want him to do exactly what you and I are talking about, which is do the DNA test, and I'd like to get into that part of it. And how you and your organization created this unbelievable platform for us to be able to provide our DNA to you. And I know some people all iffy about giving our DNA out. You know, whatever. We're not being cloned. And if we are, whatever, take those haters, get out of here. >> Len May: That means you're special. If somebody was to clone you, I'm. >> Lyndsay Soprano: Like, oh, I like that. Thank you. Very well said. Lindsey Johnson started researching genetically sequenced cannabis after moving to California So I want to get into that about how this process works, because, man, talking about getting the best formulation for us, the best method of consumption, and what dose is right for us, that sounds like a pretty good thing. >> Len May: Yeah. I mean, how it started for me was, I'm always questioning things, and maybe it's part of my add part of my personality. So I got out of the cannabis business. Not that I was in the business, but, the whole lobbyist thing. And my ex wife, who was my girlfriend at the time, was like, you have to get a real job. Okay? So I went to work for Pricewaterhouse, then m pwc, and I went through this corporate journey, and I became a commercial real estate broker. And which. Which I was always trying to find, you know, sort of my purpose. And underneath all that, you know, cannabis was still a big part of my life. And as you were saying earlier, lindsey, you know, people that were started pointing fingers at you. Oh, he's the wee guy, you know, the druggie. The funny thing is that the irony that all these people came around and they would say, hey, do you have anything for my mom? Or do you have anything for this? Or help me sleep? Now it all came full circle, so, which is fine, but in moving to California, moving to Los Angeles, it was sitting in the real estate office, and these guys came in, they wanted to open an alternate pharmacy, and, they want to open up a dispensary. I was asking them, where is their paperwork? Or they compliant? They had no idea what I was talking about. So I went to help them, and they offered me a partnership. So we ended up having, you know, four or five dispensaries under the same brand called Kush Kingdom at the time in Orange county. And that's where, you know, all the different, hip hop, artists were coming in, and we were exclusive. Home of corrupts kush and methamphetamine. Og. But the one thing that I kept noticing was two people will consume the same chemical variety of a different experience. And even when the guys I worked with, he was like, hey, I want to consume some cannabis. And so weed, it was like, yeah, you know, there's a. The, sativa dominant hybrid we had. I had limited knowledge, but some knowledge. He goes, no, no, no. That stuff puts me to sleep. I'm like, no, no, no, it's sativa. What do you mean? Yeah, it's indica in the couch, right? >> Lyndsay Soprano: Yes, sativa, sit up. >> Len May: Yeah, not for me. And I was like, well, this is interesting because we have a different experience, so individually. So I started researching and got him to my hyper focus. Found a video, a guy named Kevin McKernan, who, genetically sequenced cannabis. Long, story a little bit longer. Reached out, started working with a company called medicinal Genomics. And I would get plant material from different cultivators, sequence that and look at what's really in the plant besides what we're calling it. So we started this genetic library of different chemical varieties, and then I got into the human genetic side, into pharmacogenomics. So, the study of how different drugs affect individuals and then also drug interactions. How do they interact together? And I sort of had a light bulb moment. I said, we have plant DNA here. We have human DNA here. Let's bring those two together. And they really didn't have an interest in looking at the human side, so I got lucky. I got some smart people and opened up the company and started in December of 2017. And first, we looked at every single genetic biomarker. They had direct or indirect association with the endocannabinoid system. once we identify those, we made sure we had peer reviewed references and citations for everything. And then we approached a company called Illumina that makes genetic sequencing equipment, and we asked them if they can make a custom chip for us. So, the way that it works is just like a microchip. The only thing that we look at is the presence on saliva of that, genotype that's on the chip. So, the way that it works is you have a kit. We're HIPAA compliant, GDPR compliant. We're, a global company. So you, would swab the inside your cheek. You register, and you send that sample to our lab. It'll take two to four weeks to get your results. You will log in to your portal, which is called mydna live, and you get your results, and I'll explain what you would see. Now, you can also upload raw data, from, like, 23 media or ancestry.com or I. Any other DNA test. But the idea wasn't to be able to find, hey, what's the best way to get me high? That wasn't really what we wanted to do. The FDA asked us, and we said, the goal is to help people either mitigate or avoid a possible adverse event. So, once, you know, as I was saying before, where your own potholes are, you may be able to step around them and make sure you. And at that point, you'll find the things that are, like, this is Lindsey's shelf. Like, these are the things that are better aligned with me, and these are the things that I should avoid. And that's really what we, started looking at, saying, all right, you have a genetic predisposition. We're looking at drug to drug interaction. We're looking at metabolic function for dosing, and then we're looking at products how do we align that? And we look at the best way that we thought of doing that is certificates of analysis or test results. So if a product has a test result, we run that algorithm, and we can show you how closely that product matches the suggested ratio, based on your genetic predisposition. And the idea is. And you talked about stress and all that stuff. My mom told me stress is the number one cause of all diseases And you talked about stress and all that stuff. My mom told me always, like, stress is the number one cause of all diseases. I'm like, okay, well, I believe that, but how how does it work? Like, I. Yeah, I'm like, the how, like, why, why? And how? I need to find out more. So, in part of your endocannabinoid system, as an example, there's a gene called phi fatty acid amihydrolysis. Faah. Why is that important? Well, it produces an enzyme that actually metabolizes or breaks down anandamide, which, if you remember, that's the bliss molecule that's secreted when you consume THC. But to give you an example of how this can work and how stress can actually work in your body, let's say you're walking down the street and a car pulls out of nowhere, almost hits you. So what's going to happen? You're going to have that fight or flight type of experience you were just, referencing. So you have all these neurochemicals that are pumped into your bloodstream. You have some adrenaline, you have some dopamine, you have some norepinephrine, you have some cortisol, all that's in your bloodstream. Now, when your brain realizes it's safe, there's no line chasing the jungle. Now, there's two things that can happen. There's a reuptake of those neurochemicals, and then your brain will secrete new neurochemicals to get you back to homeostasis, and they include anandamide and two ag. But if you have this genetic predisposition, you're breaking down more anandamide, so you're actually not producing enough. And if that's the case, that cortisol can stay longer in your bloodstream. If that happens, well, it can lower your ph level, make you more acidic. Your immune system can overreact to that. So what you'll feel is inflammation. And usually it's that feeling of pain, discomfort in your joints, ankles, knees, hips, neck, back, you name it. >> Lyndsay Soprano: So many, and me, too. >> Len May: And then if you have a predisposition of gut health issues like IBD, it can actually trigger those as well. It's like an on off switch, right? So knowing this about yourself. If you can subsidize with a little bit of, delta nine THC, you bridge that gap to what you're not producing naturally yourself. Now, the trick here is, if you take a little bit too much THC, like you were talking about your significant other, everybody has their own, amount. That's the therapeutic dose. And if you take a little bit too much, it actually does the opposite. It triggers the stress reactivity gene. It can actually trigger a PTSD gene, which will make you think about, oh, shit, this happened to me a month ago. And then if you have a genotype for a slow rate of fear extinction, what happens is our brain tries to take a traumatic event that we had in our life and store it in our subconscious. Well, under great duress, it can bring up that memory. And now you're dealing with a flood of stress, which can create that anxiety event for you. So that's what we're trying to mitigate. >> Lyndsay Soprano: And, Did everybody's head just explode? Cause mine did. I'm picking up the pieces off of my desk here. Whoa. That's amazing to me, that. I mean, obviously, we all know we're different. We're like snowflakes. We've got our own fingerprints. We are. We are. Everybody is not the same. I mean, we are. Every single body is different. And it makes. It's almost stupid that we haven't thought about this prior, you know, that this is a personalized experience. Just. We're not personalizing anything else in healthcare like this. I mean, it's nuts to me. Does your testing not just include what works in regards to cannabis and THC, but does it also work to help you make other healthcare decisions, to give to your healthcare provider, so on and so forth? >> Len May: Yeah, absolutely. >> Lyndsay Soprano: Wow. That's powerful. Your unique genotype makes all the difference in the world >> Len May: Let me. Let me just, address a couple of things that you said. First of all, we are like snowflakes. You're absolutely right. But, 99.9% of us are the same. It's a 0.1% that makes all the difference in the world. >> Lyndsay Soprano: Wow. >> Len May: Your unique genotype, that's what makes you unique. So, to answer your question about health and wellness, our platform is a precision wellness platform. That's our goal. So it's to empower healthcare professionals to collaborate with their patients and make better recommendations to our patients once they know that data. So, looking at your genome, we have all kinds of different reports. So we have female hormone health report, we have a male hormone health report, we have a report on your skin, nutrigenomics, mental health. We have a canine report. So that's really the goal, is to be able to do as much as we possibly can to personalize the experience so you collaborate with your healthcare professional. The days I think of, hey, take two of these and call me in the morning, are over. We've gone through a pandemic where we question a lot, which I think is a good thing, of, what our healthcare professional says. And the more transparency we have, the more knowledge we have about ourselves. We can take better care of ourselves and have, Our healthcare professionals support us in our own personal journey. >> Lyndsay Soprano: Yeah. Nothing pisses off my doctors more when I go in and I'm like, see, you were wrong, because I do. I'm like you. I question things. I research stuff. I want to know what I'm putting in my body. And, you know, they're so quick to just say, well, try all of these things. And, like, right now, I am on an anti anxiety medication called Lexapro, and everybody's heard of it. I'm on the smallest dose that you can possibly have. It 100% has helped me with anxiety. Do I want to be on it? Absolutely not. Because I know that I can do this differently, but I definitely know that it helps me. We have this. We have a funny joke, amongst my friends and family, my sweetie, about, like, in fact, yesterday, my husband accidentally left the, garage door open, and my dogs got out, and they were in the street when I drove up, and I was normally, I probably would have, like, lost my mind. And I came in and I was like, thanks, Lexapro. >> Len May: That's a great commercial. >> Lyndsay Soprano: That is a great commercial. I want to start being an influencer for Lexapro, but. But I don't want to be on anything like that. I just don't. And I think that I'm not alone in that conversation. I know you've talked about it, too, about how, you know, add medication, all these things that we're giving our kids. I would much rather give my nephew a little, a little gummy to help him perform better in school than having him hopped up on all kinds of drugs that cause all kinds of other problems, including weight gain. And, you know, I mean, all the things that go alongside of it and depression, anxiety. When you're trying to get rid of depression and anxiety, they make you gain a ton of weight. Well, guess what? I'm going to get more depressed if I weigh 50 more pounds than I did before I started it. But, I mean, I guess we do get the munchies with cannabis so that could be part of the weight game. >> Len May: Yeah, I mean, we definitely get munchies. but the reason why we get the munchies is because, there is a. Signaling from your brain to the vagus nerve to actually secrete an enzyme that makes us crave and be satiated. And what I mean by that is, it's that euphoria that feel good chemical. and what we crave is fat, sugar, and salt. You don't get the munchies for kale. Nobody says, I'm gonna smoke a joint. I'm gonna. Oh, shit. Give me that kale right now. >> Lyndsay Soprano: Somebody get me a kale smoothie, stat. >> Len May: No, but we. So, so there. There are. There are ways to. There are ways that we can mitigate that, too. And there's, there's other, you know, cannabinoids that we've looked at, that suppress that feeling, but it's part of the journey, so, you know, have healthy options. If that's the case. >> Lyndsay Soprano: For me, though, having the munchies has actually been a good thing for me because I. With my. With my crps and all of the pain stuff, I ended up kind of creating this cute little eating disorder because pain makes me sick all the time. It makes me feel nauseous and, like, even smelling food sometimes I'm like, I don't want to eat. So when I do get the munchies, I end up feeding my body, but I do it healthier. I mean, I do have my milano cookies, too, here and there, but, but it has been actually a positive thing for me. Cause I needed to put on weight. Cause I was down to, like, 103 pounds and I needed to, you know, put on a little bit of lbs. So. EndoDNA uses machine learning AI to decode your DNA Okay, so what do we do now? So, in order to decode our DNA with you, how do we do this? What is the process for getting signed up with you guys? >> Len May: Yeah, I mean, we. We do sell through healthcare professionals, but we do have a direct to consumer version. You can go to endodna.com, en do DNA. Endo means inside. Inside your DNA. And you can order a test, and it'll come right to your home, and you just swab, register. And if you do not register, we all know that sample belongs to you. You talked about, you know, security of data. We do collect data, but the data is de identified, synonymized data. So when you register, there is a number that's associated with your record. We only know your record number. And the reason why we do that is because our platform also uses machine learning AI, so we can have predictive inferences and say, you know, there's 100 people with similar genetics that use this protocol, and it showed efficacious, that it works better for that individual. so this will be the suggestion. And doctors use that as well. They have an interactive treatment plan. It says, okay, so we were just doing this hormone, you know, female hormone test. We build that with doctor Jennifer Berman, who's one of the top sexual, female sexual health, doctors in the country. She's a specialist in that. And she was like, you know, I have a lot of patients who come in and they're perimenopause, premenopause, and, you know, they have all these predisposition side effects. Is there a way that we can look to see if we can mitigate that? So, you know, some women have severity, hot flashes and weight gain, all these other things. So if they have a genetic predisposition, which they do, there's different things that you can do. So you can optimize their hormone levels, you can provide them personally supplementation, even in my daily life, of food that I put in my body. So I'll give you an example. If I have a genetic predisposition, low iron level, and I decide I'm going to be a vegan, well, if my blood work is showing up and my iron levels, are low, I know this about myself genetically, so I can supplement for that or eat some different vegetables or whatever it is, or maybe I'll make a decision before I become a vegan that maybe that's not the right lifestyle choice for me. So that's the kind of thing that your genetics can actually help, the way that we're bookending the experience. We're building this out now. We're middle of our series B raised, but we're building this out now to have a dynamic platform that actually also includes your biological age. And the reason why that's important is because once you swab. So I'm 52. I went and did my biological age, several of them. So one of them said, I'm 47. I'm sticking to that one. And my goal is to reduce, my biological age to 40. So here's my protocol. Here's everything I'm going to be doing. the food, the, supplements, the phytocannabinoids, all that stuff. And I'll come back and swab myself again maybe in six months and see if my biological age has reduced. So that's how you book on the experience. >> Lyndsay Soprano: That is. Len May says personalized healthcare is the only way we can go forward Oh my God, this is so cool. I know you call yourself the sciency guy, and thank you for adding some of the sciency stuff into this episode, for sure. I it's, it's so compelling to talk about this. the personalized healthcare is the only way in my mind that we need to go forward in our lives. It's actually within us. >> Len May: Can I interrupt you for 1 second? Just, just to clarify. So I, and I apologize. The sciency guy thing. So I never called myself the sciency guy. Here's what happened, and I'm not name dropping. I was, I was at Jim Belushi's house. He was having an event and we, there was a bunch of like really famous athletes and there was one that was a very famous sports agent. we're all on the panel and I get invited on this panel. So the guy who's hosting it, he's making introductions and I think we did consume some cannabis before, so I'll give a giveaway. >> Lyndsay Soprano: Everyone's eating Milano cookies on stage. >> Len May: So he's like, this is you know, this is so and so an NFL, player. This is an NBA player, this is an NHL player, this is an MMA legendary fighter. And he gets to me and he goes, and this is Len May. And he's thinking and he goes, he's a sciency guy. And then I got, and somebody in the audience who I knew, they sent me a box of t shirts, hashtag sciency guy. >> Lyndsay Soprano: Oh my God. >> Len May: That's how I get the science. >> Lyndsay Soprano: Well, that's a great story because that's way better than just calling you the sciency guy. I like the context behind that. But I'm so, I cannot wait to get this, to get my information back because I submitted my 23 andme data to him and we're going to see what's going on with my report. Maybe I bring you back on and we can talk about it and go through it because that would be pretty neat to do. That would be awesome. so you can tell me how effed up everything is in my body and how you can fix me. Biggest things for me are inflammation, joint pain, stress, and sleep. And I mean, those are pretty much the big hitters for me on a daily basis, man, if I can get out of 50% of my life living in a wheelchair, I would love that. >> Len May: They're all interconnected. And the one thing that I want people to really understand is just because you have a genetic predisposition for something, it does not lock you in, you can make lifestyle choices. I want people to sort of imagine this if they have like, a panel of a bunch of on off switches, and there's a lot of, other, you know, quote unquote, experts and doctors that talk about epigenetic testing, which is, you know, methylation testing, which I believe has benefits. But if you don't know your genome first, you may be turning on things that you may not want to turn on. So understanding your genetics and then making lifestyle choices can turn those switches on, or some of them you can turn off. I'll give you an example on the menopause biotape, the women's female, hormone, health test. Some women, replaced hormone optimization with estrogen can be a really great benefit for women who are going through some of the, menopause symptoms. However, if a woman has a BRCA one or BRCA two mutation genotype, which is associated with breast cancer, one of the things that can trigger that is estrogen. So if you know this about yourself, and if the doctor is prescribing a hormone optimization, they may actually do an estrogen blocker and recommend testosterone or something like that instead. So this is where it becomes a personalized experience where certain things that you know about yourself, instead of just going in blindly, you can adjust your protocol specifically to meet your needs. And under a doctor's supervision, they can monitor that over time. >> Lyndsay Soprano: That's incredible. I mean, knowledge absolutely is power. I mean, don't go in blindly with any of this stuff, guys, you know, because I've had such horrible experiences with some of the doctors that I've seen and the medications that they've put me on. Like I said earlier, I mean, some of them are very, very scary things that I would never have said, never had done, suicidal tendencies from some of these medications that they give you. Like, I'm not suicidal. What the fuck is this about? You know? And so I just. I mean, I completely stopped. Every single prescription drug that had ever been given to me. Just was not doing it anymore. >> Len May: Can I tell you a quick story, really quick? >> Lyndsay Soprano: Of course, my darling. >> Len May: So, first of all, the pharmaceutical industry is involved in this, and it's fine. We're not, you know, we're not going to get. We need to work together, not against each other. So that's one important m thing. But I was talking to a very successful entrepreneur, CEO, and he, had something to happen in business. He got depressed, so he went and got antidepressant medication. I was kind of surprised because he didn't strike me as a person. Ah, but everybody, you never know what's going on behind closed doors. So he said to me, he was driving in California with his. With, his family, I think with one kid and his wife to take his kid to soccer practice. And he was driving around the canyons, and he started getting a thought they could drive off the cliff. He started getting suicidal thoughts, and he ended up pulling over, and his wife say, you okay? Said, no, I think you should drive, and then drove. And he started telling her about that. So the medication that he was on, he was getting suicidal thoughts. And I said to him, did you ever do a pharmacogenomics test before they prescribed that? He said, no. So after he actually went and did a, pharmacogenomics test, all the drugs he was prescribing, three different ones, they were all red. They were all wrong for him, and they all created these side effects as suicidal thoughts. This is where we need to do a better job. Collaborate together with healthcare professionals so they know before they actually. And pharmds, pharmacists, they actually know this better. But before a healthcare professional prescribes a medication, they need to see if this medication can cause those adverse effect events for the individual. >> Lyndsay Soprano: Well, yeah. And it's also not just playing nicely with them, but also educating healthcare professionals on that, that this is even going on, that they can play nicely with the side of it, too, because I feel like a lot of them, they're just bogged down by paperwork, and they're like, well, we've got seven minutes to spend as much. I've got seven minutes to figure out everything about you and prescribe you and get the hell out of here, you know? And I, Especially women, I'm speaking for myself, and a lot of women have said the same thing. We feel like we're pretty much pushed out and we're not really listened to. Like, we're hysterical. That's where hysterectomy comes from, right? I'm hysterical because I'm pissed off of you giving me all the wrong shit for my body, or not listening or paying attention to where we're saying, I'm not making this up. My body feels like I'm burning from the inside out. Why would I make that up? There's no reason for me to do that, you know, so. Oh, God, this conversation is so fascinating. I want to keep talking to you, but we're running close on time here. The book is called making cannabis personal. I have already bought multiple copies okay, so you guys have to get this book, okay? It's called making cannabis personal. I'm gonna put it in show notes and putting it on social. I have already bought multiple copies, and I've already gifted them to my parents, for starters. my dad in particular, he's totally more in this. And then I'll just tell my mom what to do. but, oh, my gosh, this is so incredible. And it is the future of how we're going to be able to take care of ourself. This precision. This precision healthcare for us. I mean, it makes all the sense in the world, you know? I mean, I don't know why anybody hasn't thought about it before. You. You cutie. Great. I love it. And at the end of the book, he has a list of all of the music that you can listen to when you're high. I call it his trippy list. And I listened to a bunch of this music, so I was pretty stoked that you and I have some of the same, music taste. Len Endodna: Knowledge is power. So just understand that empowering yourself with that information Is there anything you want to leave us out, leave us with before we hit the dusty trail here? >> Len May: I mean, it just as you said, I'm just repeating it. Knowledge is power. And insurance companies have, really infiltrated our healthcare system to a way that you just gave a perfect example. Go, to the doctor. They have 15 minutes. And by the way, the reason why 15 minutes is because the reimbursement cycle, they get more for a 15 minutes visit than they do for a 30 or an hour visit. So we need to make sure that we understand that healthcare is also a business in the United States. There is the number one subscription model in the world is the healthcare system. Once you get on the cycle of pills, side effects, there's a pill for that. So just understand that empowering yourself with that information, you can collaborate better with your healthcare professional and be more in charge of your healthcare journey. It's not just about longevity, it's really about health span. So it's not about living longer, it's living a healthier life longer. And that is a way to be able to empower yourself to do that. >> Lyndsay Soprano: Yes, we all need to be advocates for ourselves. I mean, that is a big thing, is patient advocacy. And that's one thing that I'm all about here, and I know you are as well. So thank you so much for this, guys. You can find him all over the place on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, Twitter. Twitter. Is Twitter still a thing? LinkedIn. His website is endo DNA.com. that's endodna.com. his podcast is. Everything is personal, and it's epic. So please take a listen to that and please go purchase his book, making cannabis personal. He is incredible. Thank you for bringing this to our attention. Certainly me, I've learned more about this in the past week or so since talking to you and reading your book, and I am just I'm ready to tailor my cannabis to my DNA. So let's do it. Thanks again for being here, Len. Appreciate it. >> Len May: Thank you. >> Lyndsay Soprano: You are exclusively invited to share this making cannabis personal vip pain journey together, let's get to the heart of how to heal. With you by my side. Please follow the Pain game podcast. Wherever you digest your podcast content, we will be there. Visit us@thepaingamepodcast.com and follow us on all the socials. Thanks for listening, my little vip's. Catch you on the other side.