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INJUSTICE WITH NANCY GRACE: Close Friend of Nancy Grace Suspected in Wife’s Murder · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I have been a felony
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  Speaker 1: prosecutor in inner city Atlanta for over a decade. I
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: have been a journalist over twenty years. I've handled and
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  Speaker 1: covered literally thousands of cases. Of all of those cases,
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  Speaker 1: the injustice of some just stick with me. Wrongful accusation.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: I don't know. These good sentences that don't fit the crime,
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  Speaker 1: victims cries for help ignored. Many cases may have been
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  Speaker 1: resolved in courts, but not resolved in my mind. I
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: walked up to the house, I saw bloody hand marks
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  Speaker 1: on the front door. I just get sick. It's pure evil.
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  Speaker 1: Oxygen now bringing you in Justice with Nancy Grace premiere
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  Speaker 1: July thirteen, six pm Eastern. I'm Nancy Grace, and this
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  Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. When
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  Speaker 1: I hear cries of victims, when I hear about bloody
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  Speaker 1: handprints on a scene, when I hear the pain in
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  Speaker 1: victims voices and police describing a crime scene, I want justice.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: I want justice, and that is why the premiere of
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  Speaker 1: Injustice with Nancy Grace that launches on Oxygen July thirteen.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: It's so important to me, guys. I'm Nancy Grace, this
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  Speaker 1: is crime Stories. I want to thank you for being
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  Speaker 1: with us on this topic that is so dear to
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  Speaker 1: my heart. I can't count, I literally cannot count the
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: number of cases I handled as a felony prosecutor in
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  Speaker 1: any inner city Atlanta. Following the murder of my fiancee
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  Speaker 1: Keith shortly before our wedding, that moment, that singular moment,
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  Speaker 1: when I learned of his murderer, changed the course of
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  Speaker 1: my life and others lives as well. Keith lost his
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  Speaker 1: life in one brutal, senseless act. It unfolded in such
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  Speaker 1: a way I could never have imagined growing up on
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  Speaker 1: a red dirt road that I would end up in
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  Speaker 1: a law school, much less on TV for Pete's sake,
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  Speaker 1: But what I went through following his murder and living
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  Speaker 1: through his trial. I remember distinctly being called as a
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  Speaker 1: witness and hearing the sound of my boots going across
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  Speaker 1: a marble floor and a big old courtroom, and then
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  Speaker 1: up two sets the stairs to the witness seat, and
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  Speaker 1: then after testifying to a jury, coming back down and
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  Speaker 1: passing the state's table and on it for the first time,
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  Speaker 1: I saw Keith's bloody Denham's shirt that he had been
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  Speaker 1: wearing that morning when he left to go to work,
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  Speaker 1: and I remember stopping and looking at it. I turned
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  Speaker 1: and kept walking toward the door, and I passed the
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  Speaker 1: defense table and I looked at the defendant. He looked
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  Speaker 1: at me very briefly, that looked straight down at his lap.
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  Speaker 1: Then I looked at his two defense lawyers on either
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  Speaker 1: side of him, and they immediately looked down at the table.
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  Speaker 1: Nobody could look at me in the face. And I
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  Speaker 1: remember turning and continuing to walk out of the courtroom,
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  Speaker 1: and everything was quiet, and I could hear again the
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  Speaker 1: sound of my boots with each step hitting that marble floor,
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  Speaker 1: until wide double doors opened and they whooshed shut behind me.
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  Speaker 1: That was my first exposure to a court of law.
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  Speaker 1: I had never seen one, been in one, knew anything
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  Speaker 1: about them. That is what I remember. All the years
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  Speaker 1: of prosecuting, studying, researching, investigating have now culminated in this
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  Speaker 1: Oxygen series Injustice with Nancy Grace, and I am so
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  Speaker 1: proud to you listening. You have been with me from
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  Speaker 1: the get go, since I first appeared on Court TV
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  Speaker 1: air with Johnny Cock, when God rest his soul through
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  Speaker 1: the birth of the Twins, to Serious to Crime online
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  Speaker 1: and now amazingly my new TV home, Oxygen and Injustice,
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  Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace joining me right now, two people that
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  Speaker 1: I care about very very much here in the studio
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  Speaker 1: with me my partner in crime, Jackie Howard joining me
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  Speaker 1: from our Manhattan studios Jason Copp. Guys, it's amazing to
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  Speaker 1: me what we're doing with the Oxygen series, Jackie. It
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  Speaker 1: is absolutely amazing. Nancy, and I also find that it's
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  Speaker 1: kind of prophetic from everything that you have been through
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  Speaker 1: from the beginning of your career, how you landed here
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  Speaker 1: to now. Surely that has had to impact the cases
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  Speaker 1: that you because there are some injustices we're seeing here. Well,
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  Speaker 1: you know, that's funny that you say that, because I
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  Speaker 1: look back on cases that I actually tried, so many
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  Speaker 1: of them, I mean well over one hundred, and I
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  Speaker 1: can't even count the number of juvenile cases I tried,
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  Speaker 1: and there's no record of them because they're kept sealed.
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  Speaker 1: There had to be seventy eighty one hundred of those
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  Speaker 1: as well, and I rethink them and I reanalyze them,
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  Speaker 1: and including investigations that I did, cases that I covered
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  Speaker 1: that required my own investigation to cover them. The cases
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  Speaker 1: we have singled out for the Auction series all stand
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  Speaker 1: for something, and each one involves an incredible injustice. Listen, Hello,
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  Speaker 1: nine one on, Hello, what's going on there? What's going
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  Speaker 1: on there? One thing? I'm okay, Jason. I can't tell
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  Speaker 1: you how hearing that call, and I haven't heard it
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  Speaker 1: for so long, it's actually bringing tears to my eyes.
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  Speaker 1: My chest is actually hurting hearing that because I know
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  Speaker 1: that voice, that screaming in the background is my own friend, Dan,
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  Speaker 1: who comes home to find his wife murdered. That's what
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  Speaker 1: he tells police. Hold on, take a listen to this.
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  Speaker 1: The more they try to eliminate him, the harder of
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  Speaker 1: the time they were having eliminating him. They couldn't account
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  Speaker 1: for his time, you know. Cell Phone tracking and triangulation
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  Speaker 1: is relationship with Pamela, their past, their money, they're fine,
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  Speaker 1: Nance's potential affairs, court dealings. It all came back to
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  Speaker 1: a domestic comicide. He's the last one to see her.
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  Speaker 1: He's the one that finds the body. He's covered in
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  Speaker 1: blood in the home that they shared. His DNA is everywhere,
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  Speaker 1: his bloody fingerprints are everywhere, and his blue Jay's missing.
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  Speaker 1: Jason copp You've been watching as we investigate the cases
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  Speaker 1: way in so Nancy Oxygen played the Injustice trailer to
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  Speaker 1: Rave Reviews at Crime Come this year, and I believe
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  Speaker 1: that's because a lot of people are interested in true
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  Speaker 1: crime because they really want to help. As to what
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  Speaker 1: you were just saying, how can Injustice help victims of
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  Speaker 1: current crimes and help victims of future crimes as far
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  Speaker 1: as getting people interested publicly and having people sort of
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  Speaker 1: think about these stories the way that you do. I
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  Speaker 1: believe Injustice with Nancy Grace speaks to victims now because
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  Speaker 1: it shows them it's never over. It's never over until
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  Speaker 1: justice has been served. Someone cares, someone will still investigate,
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  Speaker 1: someone will still look at your case no matter how
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  Speaker 1: much time has passed, no matter what has happened. Somebody cares,
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  Speaker 1: and somebody is willing to fight the fight and stay
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  Speaker 1: strong till the end, until justice is served. These stories
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  Speaker 1: are just unbelievable when people are going to be on
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  Speaker 1: the edge of their seats with these true crime stories.
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  Speaker 1: Why did you decide on these particular cases for Injustice
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  Speaker 1: separate from all the other amazing stories that you've done
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  Speaker 1: in your past. You just brought a memory to meet
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  Speaker 1: Jason Copp because I would be walking down and there
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  Speaker 1: were really wide hauls of the courthouse because you know,
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  Speaker 1: you'd bring jurars about to be in panel. That'd be
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  Speaker 1: about one hundred per case to start with. Anyway, I mean,
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  Speaker 1: you've got to have huge, wide hauls at courthouses if
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  Speaker 1: you can. I'd be coming down a hall first thing
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  Speaker 1: in the morning, let's just say a quarter of eight,
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  Speaker 1: heading to court with all my files with me, and
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  Speaker 1: the halls will be flooded with defendants, defense attorneys, investigators,
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  Speaker 1: court clerks, probation officers, families, the works. And I would
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  Speaker 1: run into a defense attorney and I would typically have
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  Speaker 1: the same greeting, good morning. Never lack of business for you.
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  Speaker 1: In other words, there's always another case. There's always going
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  Speaker 1: to be another crime, and there's always going to be
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  Speaker 1: a defense attorney to try to get somebody off the hook.
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  Speaker 1: What I'm saying is it's like drinking from a fire hydrant. Jason.
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  Speaker 1: There's thousands of cases that need a spotlight. Thousands, Jason,
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  Speaker 1: It's more than I can even say. We work, and
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  Speaker 1: we worked, and we worked to pick out cases that
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  Speaker 1: not only warrant investigation, but need a spotlight shine on
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  Speaker 1: them because of their particular nature, what they stand for.
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  Speaker 1: That is how we picked the cases. And I gotta
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  Speaker 1: tell you something, Jason. This case of Pam's murder, brutal murder,
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  Speaker 1: the purple actually carved figures into her body. Okay, and
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  Speaker 1: this is a friend of mine. I had just seen
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  Speaker 1: Pam a couple of nights before she was murdered, and
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  Speaker 1: it was a lot for me to take in that
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  Speaker 1: she had been murdered. And it's such a horrible, brutal fashion.
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  Speaker 1: Then another friend, her husband screaming on nine one one
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  Speaker 1: he finds her dead body. I will never forget him
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  Speaker 1: calling me from the back of a patrol car, Jason.
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  Speaker 1: And you know what that means. He's not being treated
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  Speaker 1: as a victim or a witness. They have him in
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  Speaker 1: the back of a cop car. Crime stories with Nancy
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  Speaker 1: Grace and marks on the front door. They just get sick.
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  Speaker 1: It's pure, even flatter, blood all over the bread. I'm
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  Speaker 1: trying to piece this together. Way as this beautiful young
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  Speaker 1: girl and eating so severely and dumped in a river.
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  Speaker 1: We know who did it. They couldn't find him comfortable.
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  Speaker 1: Is that something that's fair? Is that justice that sufficient.
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  Speaker 1: They say the evidence wasn't provided to the defense, it
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  Speaker 1: actually was. Everything seems settled, and then Bob shall, oh,
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  Speaker 1: we have a warm for your or I should not
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  Speaker 1: have to tell people that there are some killers who
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  Speaker 1: are not redeemable. Injustice goes wrong, and I just kept
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  Speaker 1: telling myself that this can't be happening. The system fails.
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  Speaker 1: If I had known, then I would have been able
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  Speaker 1: to protect her. The injustice of these cases changes everybody's
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  Speaker 1: life and nothing is ever the same. Injustice with Nancy Greece,
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  Speaker 1: a new series Sentury July thirteenth and six on Oxygen.
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  Speaker 1: You know, just hearing the mix of the cases we
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: are bringing you on Injustice with Nancy Grace, I feel
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  Speaker 1: like a rocket's about to launch and everybody's doing a
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  Speaker 1: countdown and hearing the cases and what they stand for
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  Speaker 1: and why they were chosen to spotlight the injustice regarding
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  Speaker 1: those cases. Right now, I'm talking about a dear friend
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  Speaker 1: of mine, Pam, found dead in her home, bludgeoned, beaten,
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  Speaker 1: one of the bloodiest crime scenes I've ever seen, the
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  Speaker 1: killer etching carving into her skin. And then my other friend,
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  Speaker 1: her husband, charged with the murder. That was a real
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  Speaker 1: moral test for me, because everything pointed to Daniel. Listen.
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  Speaker 1: Officers that responded to that location said the house was
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  Speaker 1: a mass. There was blood spatter that was near the door.
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  Speaker 1: Pamels on the ground lifeless, She had some defensive wounds
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  Speaker 1: in her hands. Clearly she was in a fight for
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  Speaker 1: her life. There was a serious struggle. There was a
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  Speaker 1: major fight that happened in the house. There was blood everywhere,
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  Speaker 1: but they found no weapon. What happened to the weapon?
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  Speaker 1: And keep this in mind, Pam and Dan were building
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  Speaker 1: their dream house. They've been living in what looked to
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  Speaker 1: me like a mobile hume, but it was kind of
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  Speaker 1: like a prefab home for a long time. And they
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  Speaker 1: were building this thing that looked like an Italian villa
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  Speaker 1: on the side of a mountain. And they were using
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  Speaker 1: all their money to make it real. Okay, they weren't,
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  Speaker 1: you know, bringing in bricks from home depot or lows.
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  Speaker 1: They were bringing in stuff from Italy. It was costing
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  Speaker 1: a fortune. I imagine a huge financial burden on them.
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  Speaker 1: Because they were halfway through it. They were like, should
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  Speaker 1: we keep going and should we finish? They had no
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  Speaker 1: choice but to finish, and they lived up on a
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  Speaker 1: rugged mountain in California, and it was very hard to
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  Speaker 1: get up there. It takes me forever to get up
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  Speaker 1: to their place. Who in the hay would climb up
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  Speaker 1: the side of a mountain to commit a murder and
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  Speaker 1: nothing stolen, no sex attack? Who I was tested because
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  Speaker 1: when Daniel called me from the back of a police car,
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  Speaker 1: we talked, and we talked and we talked then and more.
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  Speaker 1: When I was speaking to Daniel one on one and
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  Speaker 1: I am asking him questions that the investigators had not asked,
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  Speaker 1: I learned and I believe I was the only one
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  Speaker 1: to know at that moment. When I said, well, Daniel,
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  Speaker 1: was anything taken from the home, he goes, no, nothing
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  Speaker 1: except you know what, They took a pair of my
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  Speaker 1: blue chains. And the moment he said that, my world
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  Speaker 1: changed because whoever murdered Pam had to be covered in blood,
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  Speaker 1: covered then very short for a guy, very thin, I
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  Speaker 1: certainly couldn't squeeze into a pair of his jeans. And
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: it dawned on me, why would anybody want to get
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  Speaker 1: rid of their blue jeans, their favorite jeans they wore
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  Speaker 1: practically every day, only the killer because they were likely
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  Speaker 1: covered in blood. That's where my mind went and I
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: looked at him, and I remember, Jackie, the chill going
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  Speaker 1: down my body when he goes looked at me straight
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  Speaker 1: in the face and says, I, No, nothing was stolen
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  Speaker 1: except you know, my favorite blue jeans. I wore him
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  Speaker 1: every day. That would be something that would really jump
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  Speaker 1: out at me if I was looking at this case.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: But you have such a unique way of looking at things,
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: so in looking at this case, wait a minute, you're
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  Speaker 1: totally ignoring my moral dilemma. Because here's one of my
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  Speaker 1: best friends telling me that the quote killer takes his
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  Speaker 1: favorite blue jeans from the crime scene. No money, no jewelry,
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  Speaker 1: no electronics, just his blue jeans he wore every day.
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  Speaker 1: Why and I mean the seriously, the only nobody in
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: this studio right now could fit into those blue jeans.
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  Speaker 1: Let me tell you, it's like, you know, Prince Prince
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: would wear like a woman size five clothing, like I
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: could get one leg into that. No. Same thing with Daniel.
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  Speaker 1: He is, you know, a mighty voice in the courtroom,
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: but when you see him, he's small physically. I mean, seriously,
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  Speaker 1: my daughter could probably wear his blue jeans. What killer?
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  Speaker 1: And it had to be a man, of course to
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: overpower and so bloody and so violent, etching into her skin.
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  Speaker 1: A man did it, and they wanted Daniel's blue jeans,
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: bloody blue jeans. And when I heard that, Jackie, I
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  Speaker 1: was like, all tow as sit up inside, because no way,
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  Speaker 1: even though I know that pointed to Dan's the killer,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: even though I knew cops are piling on and they
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: were going to arrest him. I knew this detail, and
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: I knew he had not told the cops that, And
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: I was really torn do I tell the cops or
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: do I keep it a secret because I believe Dan's innocent.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: I actually wasn't ignoring what you were saying. You just
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: built into my point? Is it brought in the Nancy
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: Grace method of looking at facts and figuring things out.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: It wasn't a moral dilema for you because you knew
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: your friend, So how did you put your idea in there?
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: It's just it's making my stomach hurt even remembering trying
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: to figure out do I take this to police? Do
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: I call them right now or not? And I was
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: really torn up about it. I told nobody at all
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: late that night. I mean I was in California. I
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: don't even remember what case I was covering, and I
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: remember taking my husband then we weren't married off away
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  Speaker 1: when nobody could hear, and I said, I need you
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  Speaker 1: to listen to this. I got to figure out what
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: I'm going to do, and I told him, and I
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: broke down in tears because I did not want to
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: tell police what I knew. When you're talking about a method, Jackie,
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: when I walked into a room a crime scene, I
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: feel almost inhuman because everywhere I look, I see evidence.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: Every part of the wall, the floor, the door or
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: the light switch, the rug to chair, everything, the trash can,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: everything screams evidence sent me. And I can't help that.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: Every car that goes by, I look at their tag
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: and memorize every everything that's just built in. It's like
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: years of training, years of investigation. It becomes a way
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: of life, and at the very heart of that is
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: seeking justice, seeking a verdict that speaks the truth, no
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: matter what, no matter how whether the courthouse falls down
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: around me. As I'm looking for the truth, and no
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: matter who stands in the way, I guess that's my method. Guys,
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: Please join us July thirteen, six pm Eastern Injustice with
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace only on Oxygen, the true network for crime.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace signing off, good bye friend,