Latest / Root Cause Conversations / Beyond the Symptoms: PANS/PANDAS, Heavy Metals & Root-Cause Pediatric Health with Kristin from Bloom Pediatrics

Transcript

Beyond the Symptoms: PANS/PANDAS, Heavy Metals & Root-Cause Pediatric Health with Kristin from Bloom Pediatrics · Root Cause Conversations

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Hey guys, I'm Amanda Mavrakos, and I am your host here on Root Cause Conversations, where we're talking about speech therapy, tongue ties, oral health, plus diving into faith, family, and wellness for people of all ages.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: I am a speech language pathologist and a small business owner behind Salt and Light Speech and Language Resources here in Alabama.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: A heads up, this podcast is for educational purposes only.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: It is not individualized medical advice, and it is not meant to diagnose or treat anything.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: So always loop in your own provider for anything specific to you or your child.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for pulling up a seat at the table and joining us today.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: So let's just get into it.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome back to another episode of Root Cause Conversations.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Today we're jumping into what's actually happening biologically behind some of the struggles we see with focus, anxiety, and even sensory overwhelm.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: And why treating the symptom without finding the root cause almost never works.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: I'm talking with Kristen from Bloom Pediatrics about the functional medicine approach to autism, ADHD, and so much more.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: Hey, Kristen, thank you so much for being on the podcast today.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: I really appreciate you taking time to come talk to our listeners.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: And I've really been so excited this week to talk to you and ask you these 50 questions that I have.
• 1:38
  Speaker: Hey, Amanda.
• 1:40
  Speaker: I'm honored to be here and can't wait to have this conversation with you.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: How has your week been going?
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: I know here in the Birmingham area, everybody's getting ready for back to school.
• 1:51
  Speaker: My daughter started last Thursday, and I just got back from a business conference last week.
• 1:57
  Speaker: So the week started off busy as usual, but but very good so far.
• 2:04
  Speaker: Yeah, she is.
• 2:05
  Speaker: She is a senior.
• 2:07
  Speaker: We're very excited.
• 2:09
  Speaker: Um, but as we were talking before we started recording, it's that double-edged sword of being so excited about what's ahead for her, but so sad about her leaving.
• 2:21
  Speaker: So so yeah, but she's a senior at Trustful.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: It's a bittersweet year.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: I know she's got a lot of exciting things lined up, but it's really hard to close that chapter and a new chapter and move into new things.
• 2:37
  Speaker: I know it is, but I deeply remember being her age and how exciting it is.
• 2:42
  Speaker: So I kind of bring myself back to that about just how there's just so much to look forward to.
• 2:48
  Speaker: And I try to ground myself in that when I start getting sad.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: So before we dive into some questions today, I would love for you to tell our listeners just a little bit about Bloom Pediatrics.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: What made you start it and what makes your practice a little different from some of the other practices out there?
• 3:10
  Speaker: I started Bloom because I've been a nurse practitioner for almost 15 years now, a pediatric nurse practitioner.
• 3:17
  Speaker: And I just saw so many gaps in the conventional system that was we were just really letting down our neurodivergent kids.
• 3:29
  Speaker: And so many were, I feel like, falling through the cracks.
• 3:32
  Speaker: And that's just something that I wanted to change.
• 3:36
  Speaker: You know, there it if you do get a diagnosis, it you're you've probably waited about a year for it.
• 3:44
  Speaker: And and then after the diagnosis, there's just not a lot of education on what to do next and how to best support your child.
• 3:55
  Speaker: And in all of that, we're losing time also, which is so critical for especially newly diagnosed neurodivergent kids.
• 4:05
  Speaker: So I really saw that gap in the market, and I really wanted to fill that with a root cause approach, exactly like you talk about, and just give parents more options and just a deeper look into what's really going on with these kids, and how we can take a proactive approach in looking at these underlying causes of especially behavior and speech, are two of my big pillars that I like to work on and achieve with my clients.
• 4:42
  Speaker: I saw the gap, and I actually have one patient in conventional medicine that I saw her work with a functional medicine provider and saw that change and saw the all of the progress that she made.
• 4:59
  Speaker: And I was honestly just absolutely blown away and couldn't believe that more people didn't know about this, including myself, like had been in practice for over 10 years and just didn't know that these resources, these extra resources were even available.
• 5:19
  Speaker: So I took the leap and started my own business, and it's been almost two years, and it's been amazing.
• 5:26
  Speaker: I love my clients, and we've gotten some amazing results, and that's kind of the inspiration behind the business.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: Well, we're so glad to have you here in the area.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: There's not a lot of providers out there like you.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: And like you said, you've practiced for years and years, but we are all on a learning mission.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: You have to be a lifelong learner to be able to grow and serve your clients well.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: And so I love that you saw that gap and you were able to like dedicate some time and attention to educating yourself further and filling that gap for the community.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
• 6:04
  Speaker: You it's when we take care of other people, like our learning, it never ends.
• 6:10
  Speaker: It truly doesn't.
• 6:11
  Speaker: And it shouldn't.
• 6:12
  Speaker: So totally on board with you there.
• 6:15
  Speaker: And it did require going back and learning a whole new skill set that was, you know, completely foreign to me, but but it's been just invaluable in how I serve my clients now.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: I know that has been great for them, especially someone who wants to kind of dig deeper and get into root cause issues and figure out what's driving what we're seeing on the surface.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Can you tell us a little bit about who you typically work with?
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: I know you're pediatrics and you specialize in more neurodivergent children.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: Can you kind of tell us a little bit about what your caseload mix looks like, what ages you see, kind of what you're seeing at your practice?
• 6:52
  Speaker: I see a lot of autistic kids, kids that have been diagnosed as on the autistic spectrum, ADHD, speech delay.
• 7:02
  Speaker: I've just recently opened up to seeing pans and pandas kids.
• 7:06
  Speaker: So I'm using my license here in Alabama for that and for Leukoborin.
• 7:11
  Speaker: There are so many kids where their pediatricians are just not comfortable prescribing Leukoborin.
• 7:21
  Speaker: And so that's a gap that I wanted to fill.
• 7:24
  Speaker: But I would say my age range, I think my youngest right now is 22 months, which I absolutely adore when I get a child that young because uh they by and far have the best outcomes, the quickest outcomes, just because they're so neuroplastic, basically, that their brain is like a sponge and change is just easier.
• 7:51
  Speaker: I would say my average is like four to eight, and I'll have some outliers in there.
• 7:58
  Speaker: I'll have some ADHD teenagers, and I'll have some older kids.
• 8:05
  Speaker: A lot of my kids actually are diagnosed with both autism and ADHD.
• 8:11
  Speaker: So I work with a lot of those.
• 8:13
  Speaker: And now I've got some pans and pandas kids in there and some Leukoborin treatment kiddos that are on boards.
• 8:21
  Speaker: So yeah, it's kind of a mix of all of those things.
• 8:24
  Speaker: If you're on the spectrum, you're basically my ideal client.
• 8:28
  Speaker: If you're under 18, I keep it to under 18.
• 8:31
  Speaker: But I think my oldest has been 14.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: So I don't really know a lot about PANs or Panda or Leucoborin.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: Can you unpack a little bit of that for our listeners and kind of describe what's the difference between PANS and PANDA and then the Leukoborin component?
• 8:47
  Speaker: Absolutely.
• 8:48
  Speaker: Leucuborin is basically hydrospelinic acid.
• 8:52
  Speaker: And where that comes into play is for cerebral folate deficiency, which they found can play a huge role in speech development, especially in neurodivergent kids.
• 9:09
  Speaker: And the key with the Luke of War, and I'm guessing how they got it to be approved as a prescription medication, is because it is so high dose, I do, I also do frat, it's called frat testing, and that will indicate whether a child has the cerebral folate deficiency.
• 9:29
  Speaker: And that will is the best indicator if the Leukoborin will be successful and and helpful in treating that.
• 9:39
  Speaker: And as far as pans and pandas, that is more of an autoimmune reaction post some type of infection.
• 9:50
  Speaker: So pans can be any type of infection, viral or bacterial, and pandas is more post-strep, like a strep throat infection.
• 10:02
  Speaker: Okay.
• 10:02
  Speaker: Those kids tend to be the onset of their symptoms, it tends to be very, very fast.
• 10:10
  Speaker: It's a very quick onset, and that can be anything from OCD to ticks to anxiety.
• 10:19
  Speaker: It's like your child changes dramatically within just a one or two week period.
• 10:26
  Speaker: And that's it's yeah, it's a difficult one.
• 10:30
  Speaker: It's very challenging because again, we we there's not a lot that we there's a lot that we have to learn about it still.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: So that could be kind of scary for the parent.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: Like three weeks ago, I had this child, and now I have this happening with this child.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: So that's gotta be anxiety-inducing for everyone.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 10:53
  Speaker: And it our goal is is remission.
• 10:58
  Speaker: There's still a lot of we don't know exactly because it's so new and we're learning so much about it.
• 11:05
  Speaker: Like the incidents in adults, some of these neuropsychiatric symptoms that are present in adults, could it actually be pans or pandas?
• 11:15
  Speaker: So it's really an interesting field of study and one that I'm really enjoying diving into.
• 11:23
  Speaker: And there's just so little resources, and a lot of conventional pediatricians don't even believe that it exists.
• 11:32
  Speaker: So it's such the parents that I have come in contact with and that have come to work with me, it's been a just a huge relief to just have some validation and to have someone that will listen and that will do sort of some of the unconventional out-of-the-box treatments that are required for pans and pandas.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: How long does it take?
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: Like, so let's say a parent shows up at your office with a six-year-old.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Um, what do you do to diagnose pans or pandas?
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: What does that look like?
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: How do you decide that's what that child has?
• 12:09
  Speaker: Usually, it's usually all based on physical exam and the report of the parents with their behavior, because it is that there is that group of symptoms that's pretty classic, like anxiety, OCD, ticks, all of those are classic for pans and pandas.
• 12:28
  Speaker: And it's the sudden onset that is that big red flag that really gives us the clues.
• 12:35
  Speaker: Obviously, if they've had a recent strep infection or a recent COVID infection or Epstein bar, which is mono, if they've had a recent infection, that's another big red flag that it's pants or pandas.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really great.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: And I'm glad you told me that because people come into my office and we always have really great conversations.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: And sometimes they're just discussing things that really I don't know anything about, but we're both kind of putting our heads together, like, hmm, what is this?
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: And who do you need to go see?
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: So if I have someone come into my office, that kind of lets me know, oh, there might be something else here going on.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: We need to get you in to see a provider that might specialize in these things and help you decide if this is the right diagnosis for your child.
• 13:18
  Speaker: Because so many honestly end up in the ER and they end up being diagnosed with some type of like psychiatric disorder or illness.
• 13:30
  Speaker: And it that really is it's absolutely very downstream.
• 13:36
  Speaker: It's a byproduct of the autoimmune inflammation that's going on in the body.
• 13:42
  Speaker: It's like the behavior, I preach, you know, behavior follows biology, and the behavior is just a clue.
• 13:49
  Speaker: It's just information that gives us deeper insight into what's actually going on.
• 13:54
  Speaker: So yeah, it's really sad.
• 13:56
  Speaker: A lot of these parents do end up with their kids in the ER and end up with some kind of psychiatric diagnosis, and that is just so surface level, it you know, it does not address the the underlying factors.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: Definitely not.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: And I love that behavior follows biology.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: So if you're with your child in the emergency room and this is not the child that you had a month ago, I don't understand why a provider isn't digging deeper.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: Like this is a pretty significant drastic change for a psychiatric event, you know?
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 14:34
  Speaker: And I think it's just they don't know what else to to call it.
• 14:38
  Speaker: They don't know where else to go with it, especially if they're not pans and pandas aware or you know, they're I'll say they're they can be unwilling to be aware.
• 14:51
  Speaker: So I totally agree.
• 14:53
  Speaker: It makes just as little common sense for a new, a new psychiatric illness to just show up within a few weeks, you know, as it does not looking for that that root cause.
• 15:07
  Speaker: Like it just it totally doesn't make sense.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: Well, again, we have to be lifelong learners and we have to be willing to dig down and find the things.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: And I'll say I'm guilty too.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: I know as providers, sometimes we can get overwhelmed.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: And you know just as well as I do, it takes a lot of time, effort, and it's an investment to get that additional education and training.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: And sometimes people are just functioning at their baseline and that's all they can do.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: But I'm so grateful that we have providers like you that are willing to like dig deeper and help these parents find these root cause issues and look beneath the surface and see what could potentially be happening instead of just accepting what we're seeing at surface level.
• 15:50
  Speaker: Yeah, absolutely.
• 15:51
  Speaker: And you too.
• 15:53
  Speaker: Like, thank you for creating this podcast and bringing awareness because we're out there and we want to help.
• 16:00
  Speaker: And it's that awareness piece that is gonna, I think, change the future of healthcare and turn things around, hopefully.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: I definitely am prayerful that people continue to like learn new things and just grow in their practice.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: I want to ask you a little bit about what your initial evaluation or intake looks like.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: So I noticed on your website that you offer clarity calls for parents to give you a call and see if your services are the right fit for them.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Can you tell me one, what you might discuss in a clarity call?
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: And then two, if a parent comes in for an evaluation, what that initial assessment might look like?
• 16:42
  Speaker: Basically, a clarity call is kind of exactly that is just providing clarity.
• 16:48
  Speaker: And the vast majority of people that come to me have never worked with a functional medicine practitioner before.
• 16:55
  Speaker: They may have tried a home detox or the latest trend on TikTok supplement.
• 17:02
  Speaker: They may have really given it a good try themselves, but they've never actually worked with a specialist.
• 17:10
  Speaker: So basically it's just assessing where their child is, what they've tried, you know, what they've been, what they've been told.
• 17:18
  Speaker: We go over their diagnoses if they have one, and just making sure that it's a good fit and that I feel confident that I can help them.
• 17:28
  Speaker: Okay.
• 17:28
  Speaker: And usually by the time they get to me, there are not there are not a lot of kids that are not a good fit, honestly.
• 17:37
  Speaker: Usually the vast majority of clarity calls I have end up actually being a really good fit, and we can move forward with working together.
• 17:48
  Speaker: But I also really just explain how I'm different than conventional medicine and it and it involves a little education, just because, like I said, a lot of times they've not been to a functional medicine provider and they have no idea what that looks like.
• 18:04
  Speaker: So kind of take them through how I typically work and kind of what to expect if we were to work together.
• 18:11
  Speaker: And as far as the initial intake, we start from the beginning.
• 18:15
  Speaker: We start from pregnancy, from mom's pregnancy.
• 18:19
  Speaker: We do a deep dive into pregnancy, if there was any birth trauma, early infections like recurrent early ear infections.
• 18:28
  Speaker: We go through a pretty comprehensive health intake.
• 18:34
  Speaker: That first, if we decide to work together, then we we go down that road.
• 18:38
  Speaker: And it just gives me a good idea as to sort of where to start and all the factors that could be contributing to the challenges they're experiencing.
• 18:49
  Speaker: Okay.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: Now, you've talked about behavior follows biology.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: And you do post a lot about that on your Instagram and social media page, discussing, you know, gut health, detoxification.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: Can you kind of walk us through how you actually find the root cause for a child that may be having some challenges with anxiety or sensory issues instead of just treating the symptoms?
• 19:18
  Speaker: Sure.
• 19:19
  Speaker: I'm a huge proponent of functional medicine labs.
• 19:23
  Speaker: And just like in the adult world, you can go to your doctor and have all these symptoms.
• 19:28
  Speaker: You know in your body something is not right.
• 19:32
  Speaker: And your typical blood labs can look normal.
• 19:36
  Speaker: And it's the same thing, and that's a lot of times how we're dismissed by conventional medicine is when these conventional labs look normal.
• 19:45
  Speaker: And it's the exact same thing in kids.
• 19:47
  Speaker: So I really am a huge proponent of functional medicine labs, which are very, very different and test very specific aspects of health that give us really a roadmap for our treatment and give us just data.
• 20:08
  Speaker: My parents love the functional medicine labs because it's the first time that they've ever been given data as to why these underlying challenging like behaviors and things like that could be happening.
• 20:26
  Speaker: So, yes, where I usually start is functional medicine labs.
• 20:33
  Speaker: And a GI map is one that I love that just tests the gut, gut imbalances, gives us so much information.
• 20:42
  Speaker: Most of these tests are multiple, multiple pages long.
• 20:48
  Speaker: They test many different things.
• 20:50
  Speaker: And another one that I love is an oats test.
• 20:54
  Speaker: I test for heavy metals.
• 20:56
  Speaker: Sometimes we'll do genetics and food sensitivities and test for micronutrient imbalances.
• 21:03
  Speaker: But all of those tests basically provide that root cause insight as to what are the underlying factors that could be affecting our behavior, our functioning, our anxiety levels, and our ability to focus and executive functioning skills.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: Several years ago, I had like a nutritionist dietitian, and she did some functional labs on me.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: And one of them was the GI map.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: And it was pretty good, except for the fact that I came back with like a lot of yeast overgrowth in my gut.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: So that's my personal experience.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: If you typically do a GI map on somebody, what are some things that you're seeing?
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: Like across the board, you're seeing this, this, or this.
• 21:53
  Speaker: Absolutely.
• 21:54
  Speaker: It's bacterial overgrowths.
• 21:56
  Speaker: So we have the good bacteria in our gut.
• 21:58
  Speaker: It's called commensal bacteria.
• 21:59
  Speaker: It's all the probiotics that we take that builds up those that good bacteria that serves so many functions in the gut and in the body.
• 22:11
  Speaker: But I see a lot of what we call it opportunistic bacterial overgrowths.
• 22:16
  Speaker: And that's things like the staph and strep, things like that that are not supposed to be there, but in an imbalanced gut, they're allowed to overgrow.
• 22:28
  Speaker: And of course, those, when those things are present, they they're metabolic byproducts of those bacteria.
• 22:37
  Speaker: And that in itself can cause, can cause problems both in the gut and in the nervous system.
• 22:44
  Speaker: Like the gut brain axis is very real.
• 22:47
  Speaker: And another big one is yeast.
• 22:49
  Speaker: And it really an extra thing that I test for that not everyone does is zonulin, which is a marker for leaky gut.
• 22:59
  Speaker: Okay.
• 23:00
  Speaker: And there's a phrase leaky gut equals leaky brain.
• 23:05
  Speaker: So if we have a leaky gut and we have all of these things from the gut that are crossing into the bloodstream that are not supposed to, it just causes a tremendous amount of inflammation systemically throughout the whole body.
• 23:23
  Speaker: So that's something that is definitely, we definitely address.
• 23:28
  Speaker: But I would say those are the big three.
• 23:30
  Speaker: Another big one that we look for in the GI map is the presence of quaastridia bacteria because it can have profound effects on behavior if some of those toxins related to quaastridia are present.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm always so interested to know about the gut because it really is like the center of everything that happens in our body.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: We are a whole person.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: And so we have to look at all the moving pieces, and then we have to be diligent in putting the pieces out there and then kind of then putting them back together and creating the puzzle for this person to be able to live a healthy life.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: And when I did my GI math, it was yeast.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: And something else that I found interesting was I still had strep bacteria in my gut.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: Like Kristen, I hadn't had strep in over 10 years, but that stuff can like hang out in your gut till you die.
• 24:30
  Speaker: Absolutely.
• 24:30
  Speaker: And the more imbalanced the environment is, the more it can overgrow.
• 24:36
  Speaker: And it can really just cause further dysbiosis, further imbalance.
• 24:42
  Speaker: And it kind of gets to be a snowball effect once you have that imbalance in the gut.
• 24:47
  Speaker: And there are multiple pieces of the puzzle, exactly like you said, that are sort of individual, but also they they fit the big picture of what's going on in the body.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: So the imbalanced gut.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: I have a feeling that probably 90% of us are walking around with that.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: And so, you know, we're out here in no man's land and we know that our gut is probably imbalanced.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: And so if a lot of the people out there are like me, we go to the store and we buy prebiotics and probiotics and we throw that at our gut.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: Kristen, is that the right thing to do?
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: Should we go get a GI map and see what's happening in the gut before we start tossing over-the-counter things at it?
• 25:35
  Speaker: I think it doesn't hurt to take a probiotic without having a deeper knowledge of actually what's going on in your gut.
• 25:43
  Speaker: But as far as how much progress and how much healing that can happen, I'm not really sure.
• 25:49
  Speaker: Just because when we look at all the levels of the good bacteria, we look at the bad bacteria, and we supplement when we have that information, we supplement specifically for what's good and what's not.
• 26:07
  Speaker: And I even do for my bacterial overgrowth, I first rehab the gut because a lot of my kids, when your gut becomes that imbalanced, it's almost the natural next step to have leaky gut.
• 26:21
  Speaker: So we rehab the gut first, we resolve some of the leaky gut, and then we tackle what I call a till protocol, which is getting rid of those overgrowths in the yeast.
• 26:34
  Speaker: Okay.
• 26:35
  Speaker: And so we those are very targeted nutrients and supplements that you would just have no idea if we didn't have that data.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: So for me example, I was I had a yeast overgrowth and she gave me something very specific for that.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: But also, I need to quit eating so many MMs and drinking so much Dr.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: Pepper.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, like, it's the food that we put in our body that will cause a lot of these imbalances in the gut, correct?
• 27:06
  Speaker: Absolutely.
• 27:06
  Speaker: And food sensitivities are huge, especially when it comes to inflammation in the gut and that leaky gut component.
• 27:14
  Speaker: So that's why I threw that food sensitivity test that I do in there is I usually wait and get the GI map.
• 27:21
  Speaker: And if that GI map has a lot of red flags on it, we'll do a food sensitivity test.
• 27:26
  Speaker: And it's a it's very different than an allergy test.
• 27:29
  Speaker: It basically looks at a different way that the immune system responds versus a traditional allergy.
• 27:40
  Speaker: So you could be eating something every day that is kind of like wreaking havoc in your gut and your immune system is responding to it, but you're never going to have a true allergic reaction, like an anaphylactic reaction to it.
• 27:56
  Speaker: And a common, a lot, two huge ones are dairy and gluten is a big one too.
• 28:03
  Speaker: And the food sensitivity test will definitely, it definitely illuminates both of those things along with many, many other common foods.
• 28:13
  Speaker: But to your point too, absolutely, if we have, you know, we're not just utilizing supplements, but we are changing the diet base, especially for yeast, like you said, because yeast love sugar.
• 28:28
  Speaker: And you got you have to change, or you're not going to change the environment.
• 28:32
  Speaker: We have to, that's one of the biggest, that's one of the biggest ones that nutrition can move the needle is with yeast.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: And here I am still eating it, drinking Dr.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: Pepper and taking my yeast supplement.
• 28:47
  Speaker: Hey, sometimes we can just do what we can do, and something is better than nothing.
• 28:52
  Speaker: And I'm a big proponent of we're looking for progress, not perfection.
• 28:57
  Speaker: So no, unless you're on the Melbourne channel.
• 29:01
  Speaker: Exactly.
• 29:02
  Speaker: So that's what I tell my parents, especially if I sense that they're getting overwhelmed or they communicate that they're overwhelmed, is that this is all about progress over perfection.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: So we talked about the GI map, and I think that's great.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: I know I learned a lot from mine personally, but you also talked about heavy metals, and I'm seeing that a lot on social media right now.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: A lot of the parents that come into my office, they're taking things to cleanse the system, to eliminate heavy metals.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: Can you unpack that a little bit for us, like what the testing looks like and kind of what you're seeing?
• 29:37
  Speaker: Usually a heavy metal test, the main the most normal, like typical sample that I use is a hair sample.
• 29:46
  Speaker: And it gives us an idea of heavy metal or toxic metal exposure over a period of time versus like a urine sample.
• 29:55
  Speaker: And a lot of what I see is the mercury lead sometimes.
• 30:02
  Speaker: Those are two two of the two of the big ones.
• 30:07
  Speaker: A lot of times they'll be moderate exposures on some of the other ones, but the biggest ones tend to be mercury and lead.
• 30:18
  Speaker: And those honestly are the ones that wreak havoc on the nervous system the most, and why we do detox those out of the body.
• 30:26
  Speaker: Now, if you are doing a detox for heavy metals, heavy metals can be tricky.
• 30:34
  Speaker: And I see a lot on social media and just of parents trying to do it themselves.
• 30:42
  Speaker: And I think that it can be beneficial in some ways, but I think it's also critical to know what you're working with because different metals are going to hide in different places.
• 30:55
  Speaker: And then we have to also consider our detox pathways open.
• 31:01
  Speaker: We have to consider all those things like are we sweating, are we pooping?
• 31:05
  Speaker: Are we hydrated?
• 31:07
  Speaker: Are we urinating?
• 31:08
  Speaker: All those components are just as important with detox as your folbic acid, you know, or charcoal binder.
• 31:20
  Speaker: Those do absolutely play a role, but having our detox pathways open is key.
• 31:26
  Speaker: And I think not a lot of people are really taking that part into account, which is critical.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: And I'm I'm kind of seeing what you mentioned with some of the reports in my clinic too.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: So the parents that are coming in and doing these heavy metal detox, you said they can wreak havoc on the nervous system.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: And so the parents are doing it because they've seen an uptick in behaviors, whether that was aggressive behaviors, challenges with sensory regulation, sometimes it's just we're so out of whack.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: Our executive functioning system hasn't checked in to help us regulate.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: And I know all of that is connected, right?
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: So let's just say a parent is at home and they're trying to do some heavy metal detox at home.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: How do they know if their kiddo's detox pathway is open?
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: Like, what is a red flag for that?
• 32:22
  Speaker: One of the biggest ones is they're constipated, is they're not they're not pooping.
• 32:27
  Speaker: If you think about it, we eat, I don't know, three or four times a day.
• 32:31
  Speaker: We don't, we aren't necessarily emptying our bowels three or four times a day, but at least once a day.
• 32:39
  Speaker: And a lot of a lot of people don't consider it to be constipation unless they've gone four or five days without pooping.
• 32:47
  Speaker: And that is not that's not, no.
• 32:50
  Speaker: And so that's a big one.
• 32:53
  Speaker: The sweating is a huge one.
• 32:56
  Speaker: I actually I have a few clients that actually have sauna blankets for their kids to help with the sweating, but also the one of the easiest things that you can do is just get them outside, even in the winter, because the breath and the sweating, you know, through the skin, both of those are detox pathways.
• 33:17
  Speaker: So we want them to be active.
• 33:18
  Speaker: We want them to be running and playing and getting dirty and sweaty.
• 33:24
  Speaker: All those are good signs of open detox pathways and the hydration portion too.
• 33:30
  Speaker: Urine is just like pooping, urine is a detox pathway.
• 33:34
  Speaker: So we want to make sure that they're good and good and hydrated and moving, able to move those those toxic substances out of the body.
• 33:45
  Speaker: And if these detox pathways are not open, even if you are taking binders, a lot of times you'll see behavior get worse.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: I don't know anything about it personally, but I've definitely seen and heard that.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: So I always caution the parents, like, hey, if this isn't looking quite like you think it's good, you might need to get some support in this area because just because it says that it'll do it on the label, and because these three wonderful smart people on Instagram or TikTok said it helped their kid, doesn't mean it's necessarily the right path for your family.
• 34:17
  Speaker: Yes.
• 34:18
  Speaker: And and that just speaks too to the the bioindividuality aspect of working with a functional medicine provider because every child is so different.
• 34:29
  Speaker: And just because, and some of what I do, honestly, is a little bit of trial and error because something that works for one child may not work for the next.
• 34:40
  Speaker: So, and that's where you just have to be a little bit cautious with just randomly kind of throwing your spaghetti supplements at the wall and seeing what sticks, is we just we need some deeper insight into what's going on, and we need to make sure all these, all these extra supportive measures are in place, like those detox pathways.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: Okay, we've talked a lot about testing, we've talked about GI map.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: There's something else I want to touch on, but I'm seeing at my clinic a lot, and I'm seeing it online.
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: Parasites.
• 35:17
  Speaker: Oh, yeah.
• 35:18
  Speaker: How could I have forgotten about parasites?
• 35:20
  Speaker: Yes.
• 35:21
  Speaker: I mean, yeah.
• 35:22
  Speaker: And hey, to get rid of the parasites, we've got to be pooping, right?
• 35:26
  Speaker: That's true.
• 35:27
  Speaker: That alone will not get rid of parasites.
• 35:30
  Speaker: The cool thing about the GI map is it does test, it does have sort of an ova and parasites and protozoa component to it.
• 35:38
  Speaker: Okay.
• 35:39
  Speaker: But like I tell parents, it tests for about 15 to 20 different things.
• 35:46
  Speaker: And if those things aren't present, and if it if it's something else, that even though the GI map is negative for those specific parasites and protozoa, doesn't mean that they aren't present.
• 35:58
  Speaker: That's usually honestly one of the last things that I address, especially if the GI map is negative.
• 36:05
  Speaker: We address it a little bit earlier, obviously, if if it's if it's positive, but I I think that we all there are probably more parasites out there within our bodies than we realize, but I don't think it's to the extent that a lot of parents have been led to believe.
• 36:27
  Speaker: So a really good first step is that GI map that'll give us insight because I do have kids that come back positive for these parasites and protozoa.
• 36:38
  Speaker: I won't say that it's even half, though.
• 36:41
  Speaker: Okay.
• 36:41
  Speaker: So and so there's not an there's not an epidemic of parasites.
• 36:46
  Speaker: That's not what I'm seeing.
• 36:48
  Speaker: Okay.
• 36:48
  Speaker: Especially because I'm actually I'm testing for it.
• 36:52
  Speaker: And and obviously if it's there, we address it.
• 36:55
  Speaker: And if it's not, it's something that I'll I'll save until the end.
• 37:00
  Speaker: If I feel like there's like something missing or there's some kind of component of the care that like there's just a gap.
• 37:10
  Speaker: Like if I if I feel like we need a parasite cleanse later on, even if the GI map is negative, I'll discuss it with the parents.
• 37:19
  Speaker: And a lot of them feel very strongly about it.
• 37:22
  Speaker: So, and that's totally, totally fine.
• 37:24
  Speaker: And it's there are very, very safe ways to do it.
• 37:30
  Speaker: And that's another thing that we there are harsh ways to do it, and you have to be careful about that as well, with just ordering something off, you know, online, because that actually is a living organism, and we have to think about life cycle, and we have to get rid of the eggs plus the actual parasite, and then making sure that we're it's getting out of the body once we do address it.
• 37:57
  Speaker: So there are multiple factors involved with there's some complexity involved with parasite cleansing.
• 38:04
  Speaker: Yeah, just like everything else.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: Anything it's not, again, it's not a one size fits all approach.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: You want to make sure you're doing individualized care.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: And as you provide treatment interventions for kids, I'm sure even if things come back negative, there are things that you see or the parents are reporting on that helps you think, oh, well, there might be something going on the testing didn't catch.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: So let's do this and see if maybe this might be the next best step for this child.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: And we before we started talking and we're hit record, we were discussing about we're a whole person, we have to treat the whole person.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: And we've talked a lot about pans and pandas, autism, ATA, ADHD.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: I know when kids come into my clinic, especially with autism and ADHD, it's almost like they're treated as separate boxes.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: Are you seeing like an overlap in root causes across these diagnoses?
• 39:07
  Speaker: Yes.
• 39:08
  Speaker: And Matt is really reflected in those core testing modalities that I like to use, is because across the board I see imbalances in all of those tests that come back.
• 39:23
  Speaker: And that's absolutely that has to do with the gut, but also with the oats test, the organic acids test, it gives us some insight into whether they've got mold and yeast in the body, gives us some insight into the mitochondrial health, which is huge, and gives us some insight into our neurotransmitters if they're imbalanced, which that's a very, we call it a very downstream problem because it's not actually a root cause, it's caused by other imbalances farther upstream.
• 40:00
  Speaker: So that's something that we can definitely, and you know, our neurotransmitters, which are serotonin, dopamine, epinephrine, norepinephrine, those types of compounds in the body, they're literally the little molecules of our emotions and behavior.
• 40:16
  Speaker: So when we can balance those, it can make a huge difference.
• 40:24
  Speaker: And just sort of overall, as far as your question about, you know, keeping these diagnoses in separate boxes.
• 40:34
  Speaker: One thing I've been studying, and I attended the MAPS conference in March, and that was a huge eye-opener for me as far as what's called cell danger response.
• 40:47
  Speaker: And this is a new emerging framework by Dr.
• 40:50
  Speaker: Robert Navio that connects all of these diagnoses.
• 40:57
  Speaker: And basically, the premise of cell danger response is it's based on what we call a three-hit model, and it takes into account genetic predisposition, which can be during conception and in pregnancy, yes, because it's based on the mitochondria, and all of our mitochondria are from our maternal line, they're inherited from the mom.
• 41:26
  Speaker: So if mom has mitochondrial dysfunction during conception and pregnancy, that's much more likely that that dysfunction is going to be transmitted to the child.
• 41:39
  Speaker: And then the second hit is anything that challenges the body.
• 41:46
  Speaker: It can be an infection, it can be metals or toxins, it can be an injury like a birth injury, it can be even emotional, any kind of physical trauma, but also emotional trauma.
• 41:59
  Speaker: And then the third hit is the imbalanced environment that all of that, those that the second hit creates, creates the ongoing mitochondrial dysfunction.
• 42:18
  Speaker: And and basically what that looks like, we're getting a little nerdy here, but no, that's right.
• 42:26
  Speaker: I'm loving this.
• 42:27
  Speaker: This is great.
• 42:28
  Speaker: We all remember mitochondria from like middle school biology, it's the powerhouse of the cell.
• 42:35
  Speaker: But what this model really the basis of this whole model is how the mitochondria are also like it does create energy for the cell, but it they're also like sensors that sense danger in the body.
• 42:52
  Speaker: When they do sense that danger, they dump ATP outside of the cell versus keeping it inside of the cell.
• 43:01
  Speaker: And that that extracellular ATP is like a huge red flag for the body that's to go into fight or flight, basically.
• 43:12
  Speaker: So it it creates sort of this persistent fight or flight inflammatory, dregulated cycle in the body.
• 43:23
  Speaker: At the cellular level.
• 43:25
  Speaker: Yes, absolutely.
• 43:28
  Speaker: And I've really been researching and learning about this because it's a working like a framework, and this is by no means like they've discovered this is the cause of autism.
• 43:43
  Speaker: No, this is just it's a working theory of how we can get to that like root, root, root level.
• 43:53
  Speaker: Whereas, you know, these infections and toxins and things that we're all exposed to every day.
• 43:59
  Speaker: How they affect the body.
• 44:04
  Speaker: But this is more of a model of how it affects the cell, the actual cell, and how we can repair those cell membranes and in doing that help get the body out of fight or flight.
• 44:19
  Speaker: Because when we're in fight or flight, growth and development is not prioritized by the body, healing is not prioritized by the body.
• 44:27
  Speaker: So we're kind of stuck, especially when these things happen at like critical developmental stages, is super important to get out of that cell danger response as quickly as possible.
• 44:42
  Speaker: So we can go back to more of a rest and digest.
• 44:46
  Speaker: We can heal, we can grow and develop and have the words come and you know have all those big milestones that we that we want for our kids.
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: I mean, and you can't get much more root calls than cellular level.
• 45:03
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: I'd never heard of cell danger response.
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: So it sounds like there's three core principles at that.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: And if and if all those things have like a negative working response, it's going to take the ATP and dump it outside of the cell versus inside.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: Is that a good summary of that?
• 45:24
  Speaker: And the mitochondria also are these, they're like, they pick up these signals.
• 45:30
  Speaker: And that's what causes them to dump that ATP outside is when they pick up these danger signals from all the things that we talked about.
• 45:38
  Speaker: So, but yeah, exactly like you said, it's that extracellular ATP that are those big red flags that cause the body to go into more of that fight or flight nervous system reaction that just keeps us sick.
• 45:57
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: Can you tell our listeners what ATP is?
• 46:01
  Speaker: Yes, adenicine triphosphate.
• 46:03
  Speaker: So it's basically our energy.
• 46:06
  Speaker: It's like little molecules of energy.
• 46:09
  Speaker: And and I have a lot of parents when I explain this, it kind of doesn't, it doesn't connect until I explain it a little further because they're like, My child is very hyperactive.
• 46:20
  Speaker: I don't think energy is a problem.
• 46:22
  Speaker: And I'm like, well, it's a little different.
• 46:25
  Speaker: It's a little different.
• 46:27
  Speaker: You can have a hyperactive child, and that very much can be nervous system dysregulation.
• 46:34
  Speaker: Like it can go either way as far as the hyperactivity or like having no energy.
• 46:40
  Speaker: The having no energy tends to be the result in adults, but the hyperactivity tends to be the result in kids.
• 46:51
  Speaker: But yes, the ATP that has to do with the mitochondria in the cell and the that that it dumps outside of the cell is very different.
• 47:01
  Speaker: It that's the energy actually that drives the brain.
• 47:06
  Speaker: It drives our organs to work properly.
• 47:09
  Speaker: It helps drive us to detox properly.
• 47:13
  Speaker: Like that's the difference between that kind of energy and like I have energy to clean my house all day or you know, go run a marathon or whatever.
• 47:23
  Speaker: So it's it's very different when we're talking about it, the cellular energy versus what we would typically think about as like hyperactivity.
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: You know, I I had I have a memory of what it is just from, you know, basic chemistry and biology, but I'm like, let's just let's talk about this a little bit more because I want the parents to really understand everything that you're letting them know today, so that, you know, this gives them an opportunity to notice some things in their child and what may be running underneath the surface and what's happening there.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: Because, you know, when we were talking about heavy metals and the nervous system and then all that drives behavior and behavior can show up differently in different kiddos, right?
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: Sure can.
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: And what about you mentioned earlier you see a lot of behavior issues and then speech delays.
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: As a speechy nerd over here, can you tell me what you're seeing in your kiddos in regards to just functional speech delay?
• 48:21
  Speaker: A lot of my kids on the autism spectrum have speech delay.
• 48:26
  Speaker: I've also got a few clients that are actually not on the spectrum that are just speech delay, and that usually presents as either they definitely have an understanding of what they want, and it's just that lack of the ability to verbally communicate.
• 48:49
  Speaker: And honestly, I think that is a huge pain point that starts these meltdowns and tantrums because of the frustration that goes along with the inability to verbally communicate.
• 49:05
  Speaker: And what I like to see with my clients is we work on all these root causes.
• 49:15
  Speaker: And if they if they don't have any words, then they get some words.
• 49:21
  Speaker: If they do have words, then we're putting words together.
• 49:24
  Speaker: So I definitely see speech delay mostly in my autistic kids, but have also seen some incredible improvements addressing these root causes and with the seen some good results with the Lucaborne too, especially if they have that positive brat test.
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: But if so, if there's a parent out there listening and their child has already been to some standard pediatric visits and they really haven't gotten these root cause answers, what's that first step towards looking deeper?
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: Like what should they ask for or where should they start?
• 50:02
  Speaker: So if you're at your pediatrician, you can always ask for some blood labs, like things like iron, ferritin, vitamin D, all of those can play a big role in behavior.
• 50:17
  Speaker: And they're sort of above and beyond what your pediatrician would normally do.
• 50:23
  Speaker: But those are things that you can ask for.
• 50:26
  Speaker: And then if you get pushback, I just really encourage you to seek out somebody that is more holistically minded, that's willing to go deep with you and willing to do this specialized functional medicine testing that's going to give us all the pieces of this beautiful puzzle that's your child that we can start putting back together.
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: Kristen, can you tell people where they can find you and how they can get in touch with you and Bloom Pediatrics?
• 50:57
  Speaker: Yes, absolutely.
• 50:58
  Speaker: You can find me on Instagram at Bloom.pediatrics and the website is www.bloombloom dashpediatrics.com.
• 51:07
  Speaker: And the first step would be on the home page, you can schedule that no charge clarity call.
• 51:12
  Speaker: And it's no pressure.
• 51:14
  Speaker: We just talk about your child and get to know each other a little bit.
• 51:18
  Speaker: And I'll be completely honest, if I feel like I can help, and we can just see if we're a good fit and go from there.
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: That's great.
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm gonna put all that down below in the show notes.
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: I will link your contact information on Instagram as well as your website.
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: I do encourage you guys to follow Bloom Pediatrics on Instagram.
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: I have really learned so much about gut health and biology and being somebody who's root cause-minded.
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: It's really helped deliver more information for me.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: So, girl, I want to thank you so much for coming on the podcast today and sharing all this expertise and talking about testing and behavior and root cause issues.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: Like this, this warmed my heart so much.
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: I was so excited to talk to you today.
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: And this has been amazing.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 52:08
  Speaker: Thank you.
• 52:08
  Speaker: It has been amazing.
• 52:09
  Speaker: You've an excellent host, and I've totally enjoyed being here.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you.
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: And guys, thanks for tuning in.
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: Again, I'm gonna link Kristen's information down below in the show notes.
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: So go check that out.
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: And until next time, we will see you guys on Root Cause Conversations.
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: Thanks for tuning in.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us on our Root Cause Conversations podcast today.
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: If this episode gave you something to think about, please do me a favor and hit subscribe so you don't miss what's coming next.
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: And if you've got a few extra seconds, download it and share it with a friend who you think might need it today.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: You never know who's sitting with these exact questions that we talked about in our episode.
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: I've got everything we mentioned, plus more, on today's guest and all the ways that you can connect with me sitting right below in the show notes.
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: So make sure you check those out.
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: And if you're still short on answers after today, I am praying you get the wisdom you need whenever and however you need it.
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: Come find me over on Instagram and I will catch you guys next time.