Latest / KFM On Demand / The Bible for Kids Podcast - S9Ep29: Twist of Time from Tricia Goyer and Nathan Goyer

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The Bible for Kids Podcast - S9Ep29: Twist of Time from Tricia Goyer and Nathan Goyer · KFM On Demand

• 0:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Christian parenting.
• 0:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the Bible for Kids Podcast with your hosts, author Trisha Goyer, and author and co-creator of Veggie Tales, Mike Noraki.
• 0:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: If instilling biblical values and kids is important to you, this podcast will give you the resources, wisdom, and hope to do just that.
• 0:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now let's join our hosts, Trisha, and Mike for this week's episode.
• 0:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to the Bible for Kids Podcast.
• 0:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: I am Trisha Goyer.
• 0:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm Mike Naraki.
• 0:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: Today, our guests are a mother-in-son writing duo, our own Trisha Goyer and Nathan Goyer.
• 0:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: But before we get to them, we'd like to start every Bible for kids podcast with the Bible verse.
• 0:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Trisha, Ephesians 611-12 says, put on all of God's armor said that you will be able to stand firm against all strategies and devil.
• 0:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: For we are not fighting against enemies made a flesh and blood, but the evil rulers and authorities of the mighty powers of darkness who rule this world.
• 1:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we are not fighting against enemies made of flesh and blood, but it gives evil spirits in heavenly places.
• 1:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, man, and that's a great verse for talking about an epic book.
• 1:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's great.
• 1:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's great.
• 1:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's awesome.
• 1:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: You guys, so Trisha and Nathan Goyer are the authors of the Clockwork Chronicles, a three book series that blends historical fiction with the supernatural steampunk twist.
• 1:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Book One is Breath of Bones, Book Two is Flight of Fate, which is currently a finalist for a role-makers award at role-makers, which is happening soon.
• 1:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: And Book Three, Twist of Time, has just been released.
• 1:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: Trisha is a best-selling author of over 100 books and a home schooling mentor.
• 1:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: Nathan, her third oldest is a co-author, Nathan, is an upstart designer and science fiction author who has developed a successful mobile RPG game.
• 1:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: After graduating from the University of Arkansas Little Rock, he works as a software quality assurance analyst and in his quote, unquote spare time, which all of us authors have, co-authored the Clockwork Chronicles trilogy alongside his mother Trisha Goyer.
• 2:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: So guys, welcome!
• 2:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: So good to have you back on the podcast Trisha, you're here all the time, but love that you're back with your son and talking about your new book.
• 2:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's fine.
• 2:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't beat them with me.
• 2:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
• 2:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 2:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's awesome.
• 2:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: Before we dive into the book, could you all just give us a reminder?
• 2:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: I know we talked to you all last release.
• 2:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: But can you tell us a little bit about how your collaboration started?
• 2:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: And Trisha, was it always your plan to write this series together?
• 2:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it was never my plan even right in speculative fiction.
• 2:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nathan and I went to a conference for all makers and I was just blown away literally by just excitement and all the cool elements you know I've written in World War Two fiction before.
• 3:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: but this has you know steam punk and flying ships and robots and mystical creatures and I was actually sleeping the floor and Nathan was over the house and I was sweeping by the a bookshelf that had books from the Czech Republic which our daughter lives there.
• 3:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's a book on the gallum.
• 3:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like Nathan.
• 3:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: What about a golem that they resurrect during the World War II to protect the Jews from the Nazis?
• 3:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then his mindset are going and pretty soon we had a basic plot, which I pitched at a conference, and the rest is history.
• 3:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: We were just going to write one book, and right after the first book released, Steve Lobby, who is the publisher, came up and said, do you guys want to do two more?
• 3:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, nice.
• 3:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was not my intention at all, but it's, I love how it just kind of unfolded.
• 3:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's amazing.
• 3:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: And what was that feeling like, you know, because you get done with this big novel and you feel the relief of having that done and then somebody asked you to write two more.
• 4:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Is it like exciting or terrifying or both?
• 4:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I'd say we kind of had an idea for.
• 4:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: We were at that point by the time the book was done, we were kind of hoping that Deepwadi would say something like that.
• 4:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, okay.
• 4:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: And we had said something, you know, the story,
• 4:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it was fairly rarely wrapped up, but we left a lot of room where we could go next.
• 4:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 4:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: So we were very excited.
• 4:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: We were, like, kind of to be able to write two more.
• 4:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's awesome.
• 4:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: So you guys are actually writers who enjoy writing then.
• 4:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, definitely, because there are writers who like, like myself who love to have written, you know, so the process of writing is quite painful.
• 4:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: So Nathan, let's start with you as a son working with your mom.
• 4:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, how do you do divide the labor, uh, and, you know, obviously this is historical fiction, so you have to balance research of World War II, you know, with all of the imagined developments and, you know, steam punk, which even kind of predate some of the World War II stuff.
• 5:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, how do you, how do you divide up the, the labor?
• 5:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, it was interesting.
• 5:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: It kind of changed the base on the book and, you know, my mother's very very busy woman and, yeah, I'm pretty busy myself, but a lot of it was just trying to find
• 5:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: a time when we could both just really dive in on it and work together, so like for the first book, press a bones, it was very much of the case that, you know, she was super busy during that time, so I kind of wrote most of the kind of vein first draft and then she came through and Kimmel was like, idea that works through it and then we kind of went back through and fix it and got it all set up.
• 5:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: Books two and three, there was a lot more hand-in-hand and collaborative
• 5:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 5:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: And for the the case of like, you know, this was her first step into speculative fiction, that's very much my realm, just in general.
• 5:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: It was the process of trying to, I was, I was kind of probing and seeing how far she wanted to go.
• 6:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: And for a few like really hesitant to kind of really get that that crazy, but over time, you know, by the end of the series, she was come up with just
• 6:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's awesome.
• 6:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: And we guys kind of in the same room where you're over zoom where you're doing this like just over emails or how to how to how to that physically work for y'all.
• 6:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Google Doc.
• 6:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 6:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 6:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 6:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: If they're Google Doc, we'd have our brainstorming sessions in person.
• 6:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes we just be texting a time while we're both at our houses.
• 6:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah.
• 6:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm just above.
• 6:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, that's great.
• 6:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's great when you can work out that process like that.
• 6:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I've done some writing.
• 6:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: I remember with Phil Bishop, Bob the tomato, he and I would write.
• 6:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: And a lot of times it would be just, yeah, back and forth collaboration by words, you know, which, you know, if writing is your end project and that's a great way to go.
• 6:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: So this is a three book series, you know, we mentioned the breath of bones, flight of fate.
• 7:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: You guys said when you finished breath of bones, you would kind of tie it up, but less left some loose strings.
• 7:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: I imagine when you're doing a three book series, you got to kind of tie the whole thing up in a nice little bow and you're done done, right?
• 7:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: I suppose.
• 7:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: So what was the most challenging part of bringing this whole big story to a conclusion, Trisha?
• 7:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think the most challenging part was we had built up all these elements and then they all have to come to the huge climax which seemed way too big for me and thankfully Nathan stepped into that part and wrote this amazing huge climax of all the things that happened and then I think I went through book one and two again like
• 7:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: listen to them, actually, I bought them an audible.
• 7:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: But your own books and made sure we weren't missing anything.
• 7:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: But the amazing thing was, looking back, it looks like we had planted things in books one and two, which is the least, it ended up coming together and worked out perfectly through book three.
• 8:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so it was the balance of, it needs to be big enough.
• 8:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we've been building for three books and then we took over that.
• 8:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then also every little detail, but I think we really did a good job balancing the two people come up to me and say, are you going to be doing a book for?
• 8:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: And not currently, Nathan's like, I need a break from my mother.
• 8:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: But there is like the whole world that we built is just fascinating because it's true world virtue with steam punk which are steam powered engines flying ships robot with fantasy elements in spiritual warfare a lot within book three to so yeah it was the fun elements yeah yeah and I like to add there too you know I have
• 8:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: very much a type.
• 8:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: I absolutely drive me crazy whenever there is, you know, that unresolved plot thread.
• 9:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: But we were very meticulous.
• 9:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: We were looking through everything.
• 9:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, I don't want any of you sends.
• 9:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't want any fan come up and say, Oh, what, what about this?
• 9:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we were very careful.
• 9:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: At those conventions later, like 60 years down the road at those conventions when they're asking you.
• 9:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, an episode two.
• 9:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
• 9:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right, very hard to avoid.
• 9:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: yeah no and that is the challenge right i mean you you set up all these questions and trying to to to wrap all those up and answer them in a really sad ice factory way is as a real challenge you can be good daunting but when you nail it it's super fun so i totally totally get that so
• 9:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: So the series deals with some pretty heavy themes.
• 9:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, we've got World War II, so there's Nazis, there's a spiritual element so we've got ancient prophecies and just the reality in play of good versus evil.
• 9:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: Nathan, why is it important to introduce these unseen battles to teenagers and adults through fiction, rather than just through regular history or lectures or what have you?
• 9:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I would say that it's,
• 10:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: For me, a lot of the time that got really interested in things is because it was through a game, or through a book, or through a movie, that there's been so many times that something fantastical got me excited about a concept, whether it be history, whether it be, something spiritual, so if we can peak like these teenagers interests and we'll work to end things like that,
• 10:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: through the press of bones, and then they can go and start learning about the real history and find them out.
• 10:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: I consider that a massive win.
• 10:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: And at the same time, if you've seen these characters struggling with these spiritual battles and quite literally a spiritual warfare, especially the third book, but just the conflict inside of the characters,
• 10:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I feel like that, even though these characters are in the crazy scenarios that we will never be in our lives, you can still relate very much to what a character is going through.
• 11:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: I agree.
• 11:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think the story element personalizes things in a way and brings an emotional element that is so heightened compared to, you know, just the facts of history, you know, and so I just love, I love how story can do that could kind of bring you in and just really invest you in the characters and invest you in the emotion and and it really makes you more interested in that, you know, in kind of the general history of the area.
• 11:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, good.
• 11:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: It is time for our first breaks.
• 11:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to go ahead and do that.
• 11:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: We'll take our break and we'll be right back on the Bible for kids.
• 11:38
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• 11:42
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• 11:50
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• 11:54
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• 12:03
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• 12:12
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• 12:18
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• 12:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Looking for a daily devotional, your tween will actually engage with.
• 12:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Heroes of the Bible devotional too offers 100 engaging devotions for kids ages 8 to 12, featuring real people from the Bible and the early church.
• 12:44
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• 13:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: bring it back into your own interview.
• 13:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: I love that.
• 13:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, we're talking about sort of, you know, wrapping up, you know, a three book series and then, you know, sort of the, some of the themes that you deal with book two is a flight of a fate is a rumoured finalist.
• 13:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: Congratulations.
• 13:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's, that's coming right up.
• 13:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: Probably by the time this, this airs, you'll have found out that you've won the, yeah.
• 13:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or not, or
• 14:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, when we, both of a sudden we had a start book too, we didn't know, we had a basic concept, and we actually interviewed someone who was a curator in Naples, and he led tours in Pompeii.
• 14:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we were just trying to find out about what was happening during World War II.
• 14:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: There was actually some objects that Hitler and the Nazis were especially interested in because they believed they had mystical powers.
• 14:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: So again, that ties into what we were doing.
• 14:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we've seen Raiders of the Lost Ark, you know, exactly, exactly, you gotta tie that in there, but when we got done talking to Rafaelo, he said, I said, is there anything that we haven't talked to you about and he's like, well, you haven't asked about the mafia.
• 14:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we're like, what are you talking about?
• 14:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
• 14:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 14:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: The blood effect brought in the characters, one of our ranked characters, Thidora, is a member of the Mafia.
• 14:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: And truly, truly, if you look in history, in fact, there's a new book that just came out about it.
• 15:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: The Mafia's involvement in, um,
• 15:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: kind of getting stealing information from the Germans and sabotaging them helped us as we were invading Sicily during the World War II.
• 15:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I said research World War II for 25 years.
• 15:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: I had never heard of the Mafia.
• 15:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so once we set the adora in the book, I mean,
• 15:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: I actually think she's probably the favorite character that we've, I didn't do, have ever written.
• 15:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: She said, and I had multiple people come up to me and she's my favorite character because she's like, getsy, but then she has this tender par and the stuff that she says or pulls off, it's like, if I were to be this really cool hip adventure seeking person,
• 15:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, also, and if you wanted to be in the mom and if you were.
• 15:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: And if I want to be the mom, yeah, exactly.
• 15:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we didn't really, we didn't bring in, we brought in some of them.
• 16:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm off here.
• 16:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: We didn't really like, that would be it.
• 16:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: Right, right.
• 16:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: But that's your sort of mafia turn to good guys.
• 16:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, when you're fighting Nazis, you know, Mafia, the most of the tables.
• 16:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so it's these characters that are cool, but that would do things or say things that we like kind of wish we would be that bold.
• 16:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so that would super fun.
• 16:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think when you have books that have the high stakes these are.
• 16:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: life-and-death situations, the fantasy elements with characters that can just jump off the page, at least they jump off the page with us.
• 16:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that is the mix that you need.
• 16:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have been impressed by how intelligent teen readers are.
• 16:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: You can't, it's not like talking down to them or writing down to them or
• 16:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: dummy down things, they are sharp, they pay attention to details, and so I think when you have all those elements, I think it just isn't a being a nice package and plight of faith.
• 16:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's awesome.
• 16:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, and you mentioned, you know, the high stakes in flight of fate, you know, you ramp that up in twist of time as you should for the final book.
• 17:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: So Nathan, how did you approach writing about spiritual warfare in a way that feels grounded in biblical truth, but still keeps the readers, you know, at the edge of their seat?
• 17:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 17:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: I like that question idea because when you think about it,
• 17:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: It can be really easy to kind of doubt God's plans sometimes and just imagine if you're in a place, you know, like, you know, war torn Europe and what were to you know, that's a really tough place to maintain your faith, but it's also the best place to really, you know, have the people when you're kind of up against the wall, you don't have any idea if you don't want to do just turning to God into situations.
• 17:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I just feel that like four or four readers, it just goes to show that, you know, no matter what the situation you can turn to God and that, you know,
• 18:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, really show that there could still be a lot of good even when you really can't see it.
• 18:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, the God is always moving and in control.
• 18:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I love that.
• 18:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: Trisha, you know, kind of have a unique seat at the table as a, you know, a homeschool mom.
• 18:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: mentor, you know, to many others, and then obviously as an author, when you look at books for teenagers today, do you feel like, you know, there's something missing, you know, and why do we need more stories that challenge teens to think deeply about courage and sacrifice?
• 18:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think sometimes we, again, we just talk down to them or write down to them or there's a balance of either making the situation goofy, funny, not being serious and the or not really going deep with the spiritual themes like it's hard to find mixes of that.
• 19:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: principles and teachers of their Christian schools, private schools, micro schools, homeschools, and they over and over again were saying how hard it is to find appropriate books for teenagers.
• 19:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because, you know, we know like on clay publishing is a great place, they do speculative fiction, but
• 19:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: just in the general market, there's either going to be language or sexual content, even at young ages that is shocking.
• 19:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: I always talk to parents when I speak at homeschool conferences about going to the library and doing the flip-open test where you just take a book and you flip it open and then you start reading and right away you're going to find out if there's a program.
• 19:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: We have to remember that whatever the beliefs are of the writer, no matter how cute the cover looks, no matter how catchy, whatever it is, the beliefs of the writer will come through.
• 20:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so it is hard finding strong Christians who are pouring into kind of that.
• 20:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: So when we find that, I love to point them to, you know, on-click books and other Christian
• 20:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: teen fiction.
• 20:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I've been teens these are have to read up or um you know and I don't believe people say well at least they're reading Yeah, and that does because it's like would you invite this person who's anti god everything and your home to lecture your child for Right hours you wouldn't but that's the world where you're gonna get so it's hard out there
• 20:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and so it's, you know, we only wrote three weeks, but hopefully hopefully he'll give people more to read.
• 20:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was in, uh, Branson at the Teachem Diligently Conference and, um, uh, young man came up he had bought Breath of Bones last year and he was in his seventh time through reading that book.
• 21:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, wow, that's amazing.
• 21:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we often call out to Colton out to send this to his mom.
• 21:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: So he gets, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 21:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: But he was like, and so he was so excited because that last year, flight of faith was not out yet when they came and now we have two more books for him and he was so excited.
• 21:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: He helped me pack out my whole booze, so excited.
• 21:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm so excited.
• 21:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's so great.
• 21:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I mean it's so it's their readers out there and just remember that like, you know, it's not like everyone's not on TikTok everyone's not You know, just on social media.
• 21:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: There are people that love reading Yeah, getting good books in their hands is hard, but there is good stuff.
• 21:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, if you know of good stuff Buy them get them for gifts for people help out the writers that are putting out the good stuff out there
• 21:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, and what you're saying is so true because, you know, a story is so powerful and such a powerful vehicle for worldview that, you know, that's going to influence what you spend your time with is going to influence how you see the world.
• 22:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's so important for authors of faith to be able to put out stories that reflect that worldview and that's so important.
• 22:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and I've been my career's been in the world of, you know, kids and, you know, comedy and shiny happy, you know, and all that, you know, but a lot of times teens are looking for, you know, something a little bit more dramatic, a little more serious, maybe even, you know, teams would probably call it dark themes, you know, and this question is for both of you, you know, many,
• 22:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: Parents are afraid of, you know, those, you know, darker, more serious themes, even if they're written from a Christian perspective, you know, how do you respond to those parents are concerned about introducing concepts like spiritual darkness and, you know, historical conflict in the real evils of, you know, men to, to their teens.
• 23:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: They have to have that balance you want to make sure you're not going too far with some of those things, but at the same time, you know kids, especially teenagers, they want real, you know, they don't they don't want everything to be, you know, hello kitty and stuff like that in the world, they want to see how see their characters go through real situations because some of them are some of the readers are going to really tough situations themselves and so be able to see those, you know, those those deep scenes and stuff like that.
• 23:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: can just be really helpful for a lot of people.
• 23:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like I know I've been in times of my life where I've struggled and I've seen characters go through a similar situation and then prevail is just yeah.
• 23:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's just really inspiring and it really helps you a lot.
• 23:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I definitely think it's trying to find the balance of giving those real deep scenes, those really deep questions that they want to hear that they want to know the answers to.
• 23:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: and finding the balance of not going too far.
• 23:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: You don't want to, you don't want to freak him out too bad.
• 24:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: You don't want to grow some out.
• 24:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: You want to keep the appropriate, but you do definitely want to keep it real.
• 24:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: Mm, love it.
• 24:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 24:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, um, you know, I always usually ask parents because they'll say, is this appropriate for 13 year olds?
• 24:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'll say, what did you child like to read?
• 24:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 24:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, there's still reading, you know, the dark diaries, maybe
• 24:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'll send them to the squirrels, to Dead Sea squirrels, go read the Dead Sea squirrels, go back to them later, but I know I'll ask them, because it really is, you know, I said, do you have you have they read or have you read like Frank Peretti type books where there's right?
• 24:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I feel like spiritual battles and they're like, yeah, that there's that element to this right number three and you know if they say if I say I said there's war themes so in book one there's an assassination and it's like, oh, we love world war two we read like and then they're fine like you don't Yeah, exactly exactly Indiana Jones or Jurassic Park if your kids watch those things.
• 25:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, be perfect, but there are some parents and really it is asking the parent like
• 25:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: What do you think is a book for your child?
• 25:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
• 25:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sam, there's seven year olds watching Jurassic Park and the dinosaurs eat the people.
• 25:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: And, um, they're 15 year olds aren't watching that yet.
• 25:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I, oh yeah.
• 25:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Asked the parents like, what do you're going to love to read down?
• 25:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that really will kind of point them.
• 25:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's not right or wrong.
• 25:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Each family decides how much they want to.
• 25:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Open up those types of things to their kids, but there's there's nothing I always say there's not Like if there's violence, it's not gonna be completely described in detail.
• 25:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's you know someone gets squished and we just know she got That happens in that happens in loony tunes all the time
• 25:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: or an assassination that really happened.
• 25:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'll say that, and this is also a thing, a thing, it's based on true history.
• 25:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: We just add the fantasy elements, but if there's a day and a time something happened in the book, it really happened, and it also included newspaper clippings from time that time period to show, so your kid is learning history, but just being caught up in this adventure.
• 26:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: So then parents really like that too.
• 26:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I love that.
• 26:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, you're right, I just knowing your kids, knowing what their, this type of stories they take in, what they can handle, I think is really important.
• 26:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: I still get comments from adults now who just say, whenever they watch the rumor, they still get freaked out, you know, because it just hit them, you know, so just like, you know, so it just depends, you know, who you are and what you used to.
• 26:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: But we're gonna take another break,
• 26:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: Get ready for mystery, mayhem, and meaningful faith lessons in a town where Jesus' parables come to life.
• 26:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: When Anthony moves to parable port, he quickly learns the town isn't all that it seems.
• 27:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Some lint or something is messing with the parable of the sewer, causing orange birds to attack and binds to go wild.
• 27:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Can Anthony and his new friends crack riddles and uncover the town's secrets before it's too late?
• 27:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: Perfect for kids ages 8 to 12.
• 27:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: The Sewer's Secret is the first book in a brand new middle-grade adventure series.
• 27:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: The sober secret is available now online, or at your favorite local retailer.
• 27:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: From the co-creator, Veggie Tales, and the voice of Larry the Cucumber, comes an all-new Dead Sea Scrolls Adventure.
• 27:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: When Michael and Justin are forced to hide moral and pearls identities in a class presentation, they turn to AI to generate odd squirrels stand-ins,
• 27:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Uncle Merge and Aunt Purge, as things spiral out of control, the boys begin to wonder if the cost of lying is worth it.
• 27:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Don't miss Cyberskworld, book 13 in the Dead Sea Scrolls series, available now wherever folks are sold.
• 28:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to the Bible for Kids.
• 28:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Trisha Goyer and Mike and I are here with my son Nathan and
• 28:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's right, we're interviewing them about their latest book and their trilogy.
• 28:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: So Nathan, this question's for you, and it's kind of relevant to me too, because I think as authors, we all spend time researching our stories and kind of learning and growing, I was just working on a story today about where Paul's road to Damascus story comes into play, and I just learned so much in researching that and figuring out how it's going to
• 28:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: As you're writing, what did you learn about your faith or about storytelling during the process of writing, maybe the whole trilogy that you didn't know before?
• 28:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: I would say that was definitely the first case in Breath of Bones with the character Samuel who was one of my favorite characters.
• 29:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: He was the grandfather and mentor to EOSF and he very wise and he very grounded in his face like the character.
• 29:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: I, you know, I have to think of things that are wise to say, I have to find, you know, versus this A.
• 29:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I've got a lot of to do.
• 29:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: And one thing that I really thought of a lot when writing that and kind of yields a struggle through best of bones was kind of just, you know, the responsibility of men and a man to kind of, you know, lead and, you know, protect our families and sing like that and be together in our community.
• 29:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like those characters, you know, they're their family name, they're they're the sectors of the people.
• 29:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: So it made me think a lot more of kind of what a, like the responsibility of a man to the people he cares about.
• 30:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, kind of tying that into, you know, storytelling and bringing that in is kind of showing that process of Because like when you're when you're writing characters like that, like a character like you have to have those arcs, you know, those arcs.
• 30:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: And having you know, Joseph starting out and he's been asked these questions by the grandfather like, and he doesn't know the answer yet, and to make a compelling story and until a story is, you know, they have to make do things wrong to make mistakes, just like everybody does.
• 30:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, Joseph had to try and do things the wrong way, you know, trying to take things into his own hand and kind of send down this past of more of you know, giving up.
• 30:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: protecting people and helping people and kind of moving into just getting back and getting revend.
• 30:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: But through the course of the journey, learning and kind of finally understanding what his grandfather was telling him back at the beginning of the book.
• 31:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: So it's, you have to make the fact that the story arc in the progression of the character is throughout the story.
• 31:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, and that's what I love about stories that just reflects life in story itself is about change and how we go through the process of change and you know, and that's through failure and you know defeat and learning and you know and moving on and.
• 31:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so I think, you know, the things that we learn in story we can apply to our own lives, which is wonderful and powerful.
• 31:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: And Trisha, the question I have for you is, is similar, now that the series is done, the trilogy, is there a truth or take away, you hope readers carry with them, after they've finished, you know, twist of time from your, all the work you all invested in that.
• 31:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely, so it was really cool in December of 2024.
• 31:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was able to go to Prague and go to the Clock Tower, which is where this book is in the Old Town Square.
• 31:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I've been there too, it's such a cool, cool place.
• 32:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: And especially when you kind of just first come into, you come into the square through this little alleyway, and it just opens up and there's that tower there.
• 32:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's super, super cool.
• 32:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's so awesome.
• 32:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I gotta go, we've done, been to the clock dozens of times, love it.
• 32:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: People wait for the hour and you see these little apostles by laying through and there's a skeleton that rings a bell to remind everyone that death is, everyone's gonna die.
• 32:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they're coming for you.
• 32:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're coming for you.
• 32:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 32:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Really, we looked into a lot of the symbols of where everything went.
• 32:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: But in December, I gotta go and did a tour of the Old Town Hall and go behind the clock.
• 32:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: And what is not really shown from the outside is there's a cathedral in there and then there's also a memorial for the people who died.
• 32:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: So in Prague, the last battle in Europe during World War II was at that clock tower.
• 32:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the days after the war had already been declared that it had ended, the Germans were still trying to hold it and the resistance came up and there was I think 19 of the resistance that died and then from the rubble they pulled out a cross and it's there.
• 33:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: It is charred and it has the names of those that gave their sacrifice, the sacrifice, their lives during the last battle.
• 33:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: And there was also underground tunnels.
• 33:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: All these underground tunnels that we write about.
• 33:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: I got to go down the underground tunnels.
• 33:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I think the whole thing that I hope people that first of all light and darkness, like it's all around us, even then we can't see it.
• 33:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: There is the battle, whether it's big and bold like during World War II, but just the battle for our hearts is happening everywhere, how people realize that.
• 33:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then it realized, like, during hard times, kind of like what Nathan was saying, like, we will make our mistakes.
• 33:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: But we keep trying and we keep seeking God.
• 33:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we still keep coming together as a community and standing up for what's right and standing up for the light and the truth that that is victorious.
• 34:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, kind of pointing to revelation, like, Jesus is going to be coming with a tattoo on his thigh and coming to bringing ultimate victory,
• 34:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: in parts of history more than others and definitely World War II and that fight and the resistance people that died the sacrifice they gave.
• 34:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean it's true history it's just super fun to write about when we add all these other elements but true people like real people
• 34:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: you know, sacrifice their lives and it's a glimpse of Jesus' love for us.
• 34:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so hopefully I'm at the end of the book.
• 34:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm sure they're not going to lay there and have this big spiritual awakening moment, but if those truths can be planted in little ways that there is a fight between good and evil, ordinary people can do extraordinary things and remembering the true people that went through this, I think that would be a huge takeaway.
• 34:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's great.
• 34:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you guys, thank you so much for being here.
• 34:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: Congratulations again on the third book, having that out and the finalist designation for the second book.
• 35:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: Can't wait to see how that goes.
• 35:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: Can you remind our listeners how they can find the clockwork chronicles and connect with your work?
• 35:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely, so there were ever books or sold, so whether it's Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Christianbook.com, our publishers on-clave, they're also on the on-clave website.
• 35:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: There is the Kindle version, and then hardback, they're beautiful hardback.
• 35:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: They just did an amazing job, and then the audiobooks are fantastic.
• 35:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: I love listening to them.
• 35:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're my story, and they just...
• 35:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you guys read them or who read some problems?
• 35:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we have, I forgot to give a name of the guy.
• 35:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: So Jim Rubert, James Rubert, did books two and three.
• 35:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: I forgot the guy that did his name is, forgot his name anyway.
• 35:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: But what I love about audiobooks, because it's like another layer and through the story to hear the inflections on the, I don't know, it's just real.
• 35:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: So.
• 35:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, so anywhere they find audiobooks or and I always like to tell people to go to your library and request that they be ordered because if they're ordered library then they're in circulation so a lot of people can read them.
• 36:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: wonderful.
• 36:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well that's great.
• 36:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you guys both once again listeners be sure to follow us on Facebook or Instagram at the Bible for kids.
• 36:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: The Bible for kids is now a 501c3 nonprofit and we'd love to have you join us in our mission of reaching kids with a message of the Bible.
• 36:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: Visit the Bibleforkids.com to explore our store, donate, or learn more today.
• 36:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: We'll see you next time.
• 36:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for listening to the Bible for Kids Podcast with Trisha Goyer and Mike Nurekki.
• 36:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Be sure to connect with the Bible for kids on Instagram, Facebook, and at thebibelforkids.com.
• 36:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: The Bible for Kids Podcast is powered by the Christian Parenting Podcast Network.
• 36:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Find out more at ChristianParenting.org.
• 36:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Our show is also available at wayNation.com.