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What Wealthy Donors Think During Your Pitch? With Bill Crouch · find your cause

• speaker-0: The big problem is the sixteen month turnover and fundraising staff at nonprofits. And they are therefore they're not capable to build an economic philanthropic engine because there's this constant turnover. So what are we gonna do about it? Well, we then do did some more research and discovered that we felt there was a lack of emotional intelligence ⁓ people that were being hired to be fundraisers, to to be a successful fundraiser. You gotta have resilience, you gotta have persistence, you gotta have that stay tuned. speaker-1: Yeah. Alrighty, thanks everyone for tuning into this episode of Find Your Cause. Today I'm really excited about this interview too. ⁓ we have Bill Crouch, who's the founder and CEO of Bright Dot. Bill, thank you so much for your time today. speaker-0: Thank you, Joseph. Great to be with you. speaker-1: Yes. So before we started rolling, the the reason why I'm excited about this interview is because of your vast decades of experience working with nonprofit leaders. And we have, you know, over the two hundred plus episodes we've done now at this point, ⁓ we have a lot of nonprofit leaders in our network. So I'm excited to dive deep into into those topics. But before we do, Bill, what is the mission of Bright Dot? speaker-0: Our our mission is to serve those who serve others. And our our goal is to help nonprofits be able to have more revenue so that they can serve more people. And our our ultimate goal at Bright Dot is to impact a hundred million lives during our our time in existence through the ripple effect of helping others who help others who help others who help others. speaker-1: Wow, wow. I've I've questions about how to derive that hundred million number and how you're progressing towards it. But before you do, Bill, why you? Why is this something that you've dedicated your life towards? ⁓ speaker-0: Well, I grew up I grew up in a minister's home and my father whole whole life was spent helping other people feel that they matter and bringing bringing substance to their lives. My mother was an artist and she looked at looked at life in a very creative way. And so my gift, my why is to impact the lives of other people. I saw it I saw it modeled to me all my life by my parents. Whether there was some a street person who needed some help or in grieving situations, all different kinds of situations and I saw them give of their lives to help others and and that's been my why now for all my life. speaker-1: Yeah. Wow. And then Bright Dot. So so how long ago did you found the organization and what were some of the main activities that you started and wanted to to start with? Whether it was just working with leadership or programming? speaker-0: Yes. So we'll I'm sure w we'll get to this a a little bit, but I was a a college president for two decades and I left I left there to ⁓ move from Kentucky to North Carolina to be closer to family. I played golf for a couple months and then my wife suggested that I had she said, You need to go get a job and I said, Why? Am I driving you crazy being at home? She said, No. You've got this gift that God's given you. You need to continue to share it with other people. So I said, okay, I'm about just some small nonprofits in our region. And so I brought together two developmental psychologists and I said, you know, I know a lot about entrepreneurs. And I know as an entrepreneur, you've got to find a problem, and then you've got to provide a solution. So I said, let's figure out what the problem is in a nonprofit world. That we might be able to solve. And so they worked doing all kinds of research. I traveled the country interviewing top performers in a variety of ways. And we came back together and said, Well, the the big problem is the sixteen month turnover and fundraising staff at nonprofits. And they are therefore they're not capable to build an economic philanthropic engine because there's this constant turnover. So what are we gonna do about it? Well, we then do did some more research and discovered that we felt there was a lack of emotional intelligence. that were being hired to be fundraisers. To to be a successful fundraiser, you gotta have resilience, you gotta have persistence, you gotta have that stay tunedness. And and we began to feel like they were hired hiring you. So what we said is let's let's call ourselves bright dot. And what we're gonna do is to try to make the individual fundraisers the bright dot within their organization. So that their organization can be the bright dot within their community so that we can instill in the people we serve the the realization that that could be a bright dot as well. So that's how the name came about. And that was eleven years ago. And we've served over a hundred and fifty nonprofits during this period of time. And every day I get up and I'm just excited to to be somebody else. And you know, Joseph. No nonprofits are are alike and and the challenges ⁓ are always different. And it's being a former college president, I've dealt with all those challenges, whether it's HR, whether it's financial, whatever. Our focus is in fundraising, but that really is all about the culture of the organization. So we spend a lot of time working on on culture and we we it's an 18 month process that we use. We can talk further about that in a little bit. speaker-1: Yeah. Before we get before we get into the specific programming and focus you have with fundraisers, I I wanted to talk about just the the the sector in general. You've had the opportunity to speak to a lot of nonprofit leaders. What would you say is maybe a common thread through them that has led them to want to have roles in in focus on the nonprofit sector specifically? Like is it Is it their search for meaning as a human being? Is it because they saw a huge need? I'm wondering like what are if you have some common themes of that that persona? speaker-0: Yes, so we believe that ninety to ninety five percent of all people who work for non profits grew up in lower to middle class families. Because of that, they tend to have a service mentality where they they want to serve and help other people who who are in that area. So I I would say that the majority of these leaders that that I've gotten to know through the years are there because they want to serve others. There there's a there's a that's their why. And and as they begin to develop in their careers, certain other things happen and they begin to develop some ambition. And the ambition leads them to different positions that ultimately, you know, give a get them to the top of their their organization. But they still carry that why with them. And in most cases the nonprofit leaders do not have some of the experiences that they're gonna need to be successful in running their organization. And so we s we see that need there. They they they they get the job because that's their why, that's what they want to do. And then all of a sudden they're running a business. And and typically they haven't had the the training or the education to run the business. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. And and and maybe even scale it, right? And scale the impact. So and then so w one of the things and and this is kind of relevant because the newer generation's coming up, I I have a I I feel like at least in the US, ⁓ Americans are are becoming even more individualistic versus collectivistic. And I think that's being fueled by like social media and lack of interacting with human beings is often. And and I think there's some pros and cons of that. But But but there's like a growing s anxiety and growing depression. And I'm wondering if there's any correlation of that and if the nonprofit space could be one of the outlets where, you know, people can feel more connected to humanity and feel more connected to others because service of others is kind of one one really good cure for for some of those reoccurring challenges that people are facing. Have you seen any of that in younger generations or older generations or just in in general in in the US? And and if you think technology is having an impact on that? speaker-0: Well, I think so. I th I think that at the center of our culture is this need for community and belonging. And you know, for the young people they came through COVID, you know, and and they were I they were isolated. For for the rest of us, it's just that sense of community. And we know we we looked a lot at the Harvard study about the the the longest, you know, what makes people at the end of their lives happy and fulfilled, et cetera, and it's all about it's all about community. And so we we We see that because what the non profit is doing is filling a gap in society that the government can't take care of and there's gonna be more of those gaps, right? Right. And so people are having to step up and there is this this this chivalry, this this moment of being a good citizen for people to get involved with the the non profits. A big challenge we got though right now is the eighty twenty rule. where eighty percent of your volunteers are coming from twenty percent of the people, or eight percent of your funding's coming from twenty percent of the donors, that's gone away. And and now we see the ninety five five rule where ninety five percent of all the wealth in America is held by five percent of the people. So that that creates this isolation piece for a a lot of people. And you know the society's changed so when I was growing up everybody everybody on my n neighborhood went to church and and boy you didn't do anything until after one o'clock in the afternoon on a 'Cause everybody was in church and they were in community and they were they were together. And now all this all this has changed and there's a there's a great need. And what we we believe that every human being and this and the research shows this has a quest for significance. Yep. Every human being wants to feel like they they matter. And and we see that as just as a matter of fact, we have coined and have trademarked the word mattership. Where we are seeking to bring forth this whole new understanding that our our real role is to help each other know that we matter. And and that's what we see and that's where we're spending a lot of our time trying to help the non profits understand. We all we all know that the people we serve matter. That's the reason we're that's where reason a nonprofit is started. In fact, I was just having lunch with somebody whose sister has ALS. And there's a nonprofit that's helping their family deal with the difficulties of that horrible disease. Right? And and and they're saying to this person who's obviously dying, your life matters. We care about you and we're going to surround you with that love. So we always focus on the people we serve as mattering. What we're beginning to understand is the high wealth individuals, they want to make sure their lives matter as well. Right. And if we can connect that desire of the high wealth with a non profit, then we're seeing some really strong connections being made that that make a difference. speaker-1: Yeah. How do you ⁓ so the the the quest for significance, how can you manufacture that quest from accelerating or even happening? Is it is it a like a factor of maturity? Is it a factor of needing to go through some really traumatic experience? I'm wondering what you've seen and and if there's any way that that somebody could can can have a little bit more control over that quest and accelerate that quest. speaker-0: Well, we we believe and research will show that it it is it is an internal desire by every human being. I I recently interviewed a gentleman who owned a lot of funeral homes around the United States. And I asked him the one question I always ask when I go visit with top performers, it it always changes. So I for instance I interviewed a PGA player and said, Would you teach me how you control your mind when you hit a bad shot? And then you go up there and hit a good shot. Because all of us in the nonprofit world make mistakes. What can we do mentally to be able to overcome that so we can keep going? So I asked this gentleman who owned these funeral homes, is there one thing you could teach me that you learned from the funeral home business that I could help nonprofits be better? Absolutely. He said, You guys got it all wrong. He said, Let me tell you why. He says, whenever somebody comes into my funeral home to prepay their funeral, they're only asking one question. And when somebody comes into my funeral home to pick out a coffin because there's been a tragedy, they're only asking one question, and it's the same question. And the question they're asking is if that was me, would people say my life mattered? When I die. Will people say my life mattered? And he was talking about that little dash between the dates, you know, if you're on your gravestone. And these he said, Bill these non profits all the time are saying that the people they serve matter. But it's the people who have the revenue that you also gotta l explain to them that they matter. Another wealthy gentleman, and I said, With I asked him if he would teach me to think like a wealthy person. And he said, Why would you ask me that? And I said, Because all my career I've sat on one side of the table giving proposals to wealthy people, and the whole time I'm wondering what's going through your head while I'm giving you this proposal. And he said, Yeah, it's it's really easy, Bill. It doesn't matter how old a development person is or what institution they're from, I'm always thinking the same thing. And say, Good, what is it? He said, How stupid they are. And I said, why would you say that? And he says, because it's always about them. It's always about their organization. It's not about me. And and I want I I want them to know who I am so that they can match my interest with what they do. And so I think it's not a matter of how much money you have or how much money you don't have. It's a matter of do I matter? And we think in the nonprofit culture that we've discovered, there's a lot of people working for nonprofits. Where the nonprofit leadership doesn't pat them on the back and say, Hey, you matter. You matter as as a fundraiser, you matter as the as the as the data entry person, you matter. You know, and so this constant reminding people that everybody's life is significant. And and and that's that's the the quest. And I might believe my life is significant. But what really impacts my life is when somebody else says my life is significant. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. And is that a matter of storytelling to be able to get that across or or is it i is it dependent on being able to connect impact to current activities? Like what what are some of like the the the the main ways to to make those connections or to teach that skill? speaker-0: So it's it's it's absolutely about storytelling. But you've got you've got to you've got to tell and understand the story of the person that you're trying to lead, right? That you're trying to connect with before you start telling your story. Right. And so the connection comes, I'm a listener. You know, people love to love for people to listen to them, right? And we think the you're asking me what are some of the skills that that CEOs and leaders need to have. One of the biggest skills is listening. speaker-1: Hm. speaker-0: And and that's that's a hard skill to to develop and have the the ⁓ the ability to do that. I once when I was getting graduate school, I had to work at a hospital and I was assigned to the neurosurgical floor of a major hospital to be able to talk to the families whose children or fathers, mothers were dying. And I was not allowed to have a tape recorder. I was not allowed to have paper or a pencil. I just had to go in and sit and listen and then go back to the room, the office and write down per word everything that was said. And I learned to listen in that in that situation. You know I tell our our team whenever we're meeting with people, I said no computers, no paper, no pencil. You're you're going in as one human being talking to another human being to to relate to each other. Right. speaker-1: Yeah. Well I I feel like with the advent of AI transcriptions and recording of meetings and I I fall into this challenge. Like you don't really have to listen anymore. You just hit record and have the notes summarized and and there's like less and less connections that you could potentially possibly make with somebody. It's not leading in a positive direction. Yeah. speaker-0: Yeah, and that's gonna be a real challenge for us. But if we if but if we can if we can if if we can develop those skills, AI is not gonna be able to provide the relationships to and that's gonna be the key for the future is can I think and I I use AI every day. I I really enjoy it the way it can it can help me. I like getting the assets, but you know what happens when I get the Zoom assets? speaker-1: Correct. speaker-0: I typically throw them in the trash can because I I I d I don't need them. Right? And but I've developed this this this listening skills that that are very important in relating to people. speaker-1: Yeah. Let's let's maybe use some real life examples of of nonprofit leaders I've I've interviewed recently. There's this really, really small nonprofit and they aggregate donations for new moms in underserved communities of Chicago. So, you know, whether it's with toiletries or or diapers or products and then and then give these baskets out to to new moms. Really small operation, but really impactful because diapers and wipes are expensive, especially for for maybe younger new moms, right? And and and th you know, th that that's her main that's her main activity that she does. How should she be applying some of these teachings to drive maybe donations or or fundraising for her? Real time example. speaker-0: Interesting, I was I was in the northeast working for an organization who did very s very similar. And in there was a very wealthy part of this county that they hired us to help them be able to get those people to to give donations back to them. Right? So we decided to put together what we called a woman women in philanthropy organization where we were going to try to gather women together who would Who would give $25,000 each to help with small children? Because we, you know, we thought that. And and we got we got one person to it, but we couldn't get any more to do it. And finally she said to me, she said, Sir, you're going about this the wrong way. And I said, What is that? She said, You're treating us like we're old, we're old people, right? So she said, Let's change the name of the organization from Women Who Give a Hoot. I mean Women in Philanthropy to Grandmothers Who Give a Hoot. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: And let's let's start hitting on the grandmother's heart to help to help babies. They might not be their grandchildren, but they're somebody's grandchildren. And these grandchildren need help. So the whole messaging switched. And when the messaging switched, we raised a lot of money. Because these grandmothers we got to their hearts with vocabulary and we believe vocabulary is a really key part. of this connection. Give you another example. I I travel a lot and I'm in I'm in sky miles a lot. And at the Delta. And I figured out that there's two reasons for a Sky Club. One is to give men and women like me who travel a lot the opportunity to get free food and a free drink. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: The main reason they're there is to give first great hospitality to people who buy first class tickets. Because that's where they make their money. So there's always a magazine rack, and the magazine rack is filled with magazines for high wealth people. It's not Sports Illustrated, it's not people magazine. It's high wealth, a lot of travel, high wealth stuff. I take every one of the magazines that are on the right, put it in my backpack, 'cause they're all free. Take it to my team and I say, tell out, tear out every advertisement in the magazine, and let's look at the vocabulary that advertisers are using to people of wealth and influence. And you what we discovered, Joseph, is those are those of those adjectives and verbs are hardly ever seen in nonprofits materials. Those nonprofits materials are focused on the vocabulary of the people they serve. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: Instead of on the people who have the revenue that can provide the resources so they can serve more people. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. Logically that makes so much sense though. Do you think that some of the reasons why these executive directors and founders of nonprofits don't have that vocabulary is because they feel like it's against the the ethos of g like their organization or of the nonprofit industry? Like how do you get out of that mindset and switch it to to to to to the vocabulary of those ads in the in the high net worth magazines? speaker-0: Yeah, so that's a challenge. And in in in my work, the number one key to success is the coachability of the CEO. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. speaker-0: So I try to figure out real quickly and and having been a former CEO, it gives me an opportunity, you know, to have a a different kind of conversation with with these CEOs. But first of all, it's not their vocabulary, because remember, most of them have come from the lower to middle class families. So they use very familial, very you know, caring type of vocabulary. So first of all, it's something they're not exposed to. Then what you called on, then they say, well, No, we don't want to come across looking like we're rich or that we we live above the people that we serve. And and one of my phrases I use a lot, your mission doesn't count unless you have the revenue to run your mission. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: So you gotta focus on the vocabulary of the people who have the revenue so you can still care for the people that you're you're called to do. A gentleman who who ran the Chamber of Commerce in the United States Chamber of Commerce, he was one of the top performer founders, and I asked him the one question, what can you teach me? And he said, This is the most important lesson I learned. Eagles never do the work where sparrows nest. I said, What do you mean by that? He said eagles are people who have the ability to to give a lot of resources. And every nonprofit wants an eagle on their board. But if you put an eagle on a nonprofit board, which is mostly made up of sparrows, meaning, you know, God's favorite bird was a sparrow. Sparrows are great. Nonprofits could not run if it wasn't good people who are willing to suffer, and who would come and listen to staff make reports and who would give a thousand dollars to buy a seat at a Gala or buy a golf ticket. But Eagles are people who can give a million dollars, let's say. If you put one of those on your board, they will become a sparrow or they'll quit because they don't like they're certainly not going to sit and listen to somebody make a staff report. They're not they don't care whether you spend a thousand dollars on a new computer or what color the carpet is in the in your room. All they want to do is to solve problems and transform things. So one of the things we do, Joseph, is is try to encourage every nonprofit to create a second group called the Eagle Board. And it's made up all of high wealth people. They love to hang out with each other. They want to solve problems. They don't want to put band-aids on things. And one of the I think one of the keys to all this is helping the CEO have a big vision. Because that's what these people want to fund. big vision. And getting the messaging right and the vocabulary right is all a part of what we're teaching our the nonprofits that we work with. And and we've we've I mean now I've been at eleven years. Now we have some pretty dramatic results that can happen when when you do this. But the but then the other thing Joseph is the CEO or the or the executive director has to act like an eagle. speaker-1: Yep. Yep. speaker-0: has to have the big vision, has to have the right words, we say, has to use the right kind of stationery that that high wealth people use. Right. And and that takes most of them out of their comfort zones. speaker-1: Well, Mm-hmm. speaker-0: So we do a lot of we do a lot of work on building confidence. speaker-1: Yeah. think one of the I I've been I've been in in in in sales for a decade. I'm not in the non profit space, in the for profit space. And and and I initially when I got in it, like my my dad has been a car salesman for thirty, forty plus years. And so I I've been around just those types of environments. And and I feel like you could see where some of those interactions can feel squirmy or like manipulative. Where you do so much research on somebody that you're you're like the the experience feels off. But then there's the other side of that coin where being able to connect with somebody at a a deep level and understand their interests and their hobbies and acknowledge that and respect that, that that's I I I feel like one of the ex potential excuses a nonprofit leader where this is uncomfortable is is that's being too manipulative or that's being too salesy. And that might go back to your coachability filter that you mentioned initially, but For for for executive directors or for nonprofit leaders or or fundraising leaders that come to you with that feedback or that sentiment, how do you kind of work them through that? speaker-0: Well you'll you'll understand this because of your dad. We we we say, you know, we're not asking you to be a ⁓ used card salesman. speaker-1: Yep, yep. speaker-0: We're not trying to sell widgets, we're not trying to sell cars, we're not trying to sell TVs, we're trying to change people's lives. And sometimes to change people's lives, you have to do things that you don't feel comfortable doing. Right? And but we're gonna do it with integrity, we're gonna do it with ethics, we're going we're going to do it with a with a value, and you know, we're gonna hear ⁓ we're gonna hear some no's along the way. And we're gonna we're gonna hear that some people don't like our tactics. But we're this is what we're called to do. Right? Yeah. And and you have to do what you gotta do in order to be, you know, within the ethical integrity world to do it. People the people the one thing about these these leaders of non profits, they wanna do the right thing. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. speaker-0: They that's why they're that's why they do what they do. They want to do the the right thing. But with the demographic change in our country, what what we say to these to these people is let's let's find let's find twelve people for the CEO to focus on. And if and and let's let's get to know those those people. And we ask we teach to ask a different kind of questions. I you know, we we say when you're ⁓ if you're a CO you're going to visit somebody for the first time and you walk into their house, ask them if they would mind if you took a walk around their room. And what we mean by that, to go up and look at a picture and ask them about the picture, to ask them about ⁓ this diploma, to ask them about the books they're reading. You know, spend some time building it 'cause it you know, it all comes down to one thing trust. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: They've got you've got to build a trusting relationship. People who have the revenue. And if if you can do that, you know, they can do that. Money's not the issue. Everybody that we work with initially say we need more money. Right? But money's not the issue. There's more money in this country than there's ever been. And right right today there's three hundred and fifty two billion dollars sitting in donor advice funds across the country. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: Which is money that's already been given to charity. It's just that the donor hasn't designated what charity it goes to. speaker-1: Yeah. Right? speaker-0: So money money's not the issue. The issue is building the connections with the people that have the money to to make it work. speaker-1: Well, ⁓ getting back to to Bright Dot, a hundred million lives is your goal. Talk to me about how that is going and how you're measuring it. speaker-0: Okay. Well, it's ⁓ we'll never be able to prove it, right? It's ⁓ but it but it's ⁓ motivational for us. So for instance, we know from s from studies at Yale that they they into they predict that every human being in their life is going to impact ten others. speaker-1: Mm. speaker-0: So if if we can help a nonprofit serve a hundred people this year, the chances are those hundred people are going to impact ten each. So we use the one to ten multiplier for our own for our own sake. So it we just we did a major university where we trained a hundred and forty fundraisers, development people. Right? Well there's thirty seven thousand students there. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: And part of what we were raising money for was faculty salaries, et cetera. Right. And then there were there was 79,000 alums of this institution, right? And then all those students had parents. And so just from that one institution alone, we we probably have impacted 10 million lives by by our work. Right. And by the way, that's something that that ⁓ we've learned that high wealth people they want to know the the impact they're getting. speaker-1: Yeah, that's a think big. Yeah, that's a think big that you mentioned. Yeah. speaker-0: So we're teaching the nonprofits to multiply what they're the people they're serving by ten when they're talking. So we were just doing a we were just putting together a proposal for a wealthy man in outside of Tampa, Florida, and it was for an institution that had forty five thousand people, faculty staff, students, parents, et cetera. And we multiplied it by ten and said, Your your giving is gonna have a ten X impact over these numbers. And he went, Wow. I've I've never thought about that. You know, and so that's that's how we do it. And you know, my my team wants me to move that one hundred million to two hundred million. We can we can keep but it's our it's our motivator to do our why with quality and well and and hope that we can impact these lives. speaker-1: Yeah. Wow. Well, Bill, so people that are listening and want to get engaged with Bright Dot, what's the process of engagement and what type of engagement are you looking for? speaker-0: Yeah. So we our our our sweet spot is creating this philanthropic engine for nonprofits. And it doesn't matter whether they have one development person or whether they have twenty development people, there are nine key we call them puzzle pieces that have to be put together. So when we go into an organization, the first thing we do is assess where they are. And our goal is speaker-1: Minus speaker-0: that by the time our our relationship ends, they're gonna they're gonna have fives in all nine areas. If they only have one if they only have one development person, then we gotta find volunteers. We gotta find other ways to get these nine things processes done for them to speaker-1: What are those nine things? I I know it I we haven't talked about that yet, but I'd love to d dive into those for a little bit. speaker-0: Well the first thing is you you gotta have a very exciting big CEO vision. And and Joe Joseph, we have to build those visions a lot of times because the a lot of times they think their mission is their vision. But no, the the mission is the mission. The vision is, hey as CEO in five years, I wanna be the most productive, best known nonprofit in this community. Right? That that's a vision. And every you know, you you play athletics, every successful coach wants to win the national championship. You know, you know, puts those visions in front of people. The nonprofit CO has to do that. Second thing is you've got to have an accountable an accountable board. speaker-1: Mm. speaker-0: Boards boards a person joins a board, a nonprofit board, because they love the mission. What drives performance though is not the mission, it's peer pressure. So you've got to have very clear expectations about what a board member is expected to do. And then you gotta hold them accountable in front of the other board members because If I'm sitting, if I'm on the board and sitting across the table from me as the president of the bank, I I can't I can't be seen as mediocre because one day I might need a loan from him. In most boards, nobody knows what the other board members are doing, unless you know, except for 100% giving. So those are saying third is you've got to have emotionally intelligent staff. You've got to have staff who have great who have great resilience for etc. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. speaker-0: The biggest challenge that nonprofits have is hiring the wrong per the wrong people in that job. And they, you know, we call it the the pretty people with big smiles who have big personalities they think are automatically great fundraisers. We d we know the n the key factor about whether somebody's gonna be a good fundraiser is whether they had a childhood trauma. speaker-1: Mm. speaker-0: The trauma, they one of two things either happened to them. They become ⁓ addicts as adults to deal have to have ways to deal with the hurt and pain that they had as a child, or they become very resilient, very persistent. We're gonna we're gonna get through this very difficult time as a child. If I did it as a child, I can do it as an adult. So emotional intelligence, and we do a lot of training in that area. The the the the fourth thing is. They gotta be able to identify prospects, donors. And what processes do they have in place to do that? Then they got to do research on the donor. Then they got to know how to build connections. And so sometimes if I wanted, if I thought you were my prospect, I had to find a way to get to you. And probably it's not going to be me picking up the phone and calling you for the first time. I've got to find somebody who can open the door for me. And that's key to the future of what we what we do. Then you've got to have confidence. You've got to have the confidence that you deserve the opportunity to go talk to somebody about investing in you. Then, as you know, the number one reason people don't give is they're not asked. So we do a lot of role playing with with our clients and and help them understand how to ask and how to write a proposal. This starts with the donor first and the institution second. And then the last thing is what we call mattership, which in most nonprofits call it stewardship. But stewardship is transactional, mattership is relational. And so we teach them how to to acknowledge and express gratitude in a relational way instead of in an email with a with an automatic computer signature on it. So those are the nine those are the nine pieces. And I have a team that are experts in each of the nine pieces. And so depending on what we discover in our assessment, that's who get assigned to work with the with the nonprofit. And sometimes a nonprofit might be working with seven of my team members because they have deficiencies in all the different areas. And but my the my work is always with the CEO. I'm always coaching the CEO. Making sure things are going. If there's roadblocks, I pick up the phone and say, Hey, Mr. CO, we need to have a CO to CO conversation. Yeah, you you got it you got a challenge over here or over there that I can't fix. You gotta fix it if it's gonna get so that's what we do and we we thoroughly enjoy it. I'm I'm doing a lot of speaking now at around the country, particularly on this whole area of mattership. in in trying to teach people how they matter in their lives. I've got a book coming out the end of June called Mattership How Donors Want to Be Treated. And so we're we're we're real excited about about that process. People are people are listening to some of the things we've discovered and are are trying to present to the to the audiences. speaker-1: Yeah. Wow. Wow. So and then engagement, people that are listening in in types of engagement you look for. I mentioned beforehand that we have, you know, a a large listener ship of a former nonprofit leaders. Is that the typical engagement that you're looking to to reach out to and to reach out to you? speaker-0: Yeah, we're we're trying to find those leaders or the or the vice presidents of development who will go to their leader and say, Hey, we need to do that. The best way to connect with me on the on our website or is to go and and just get a an appointment, ⁓ a free fifteen, thirty minute appointment with me ⁓ on on the calendy and I'll call you back and we'll we'll talk for a little bit and see if there's I'll I'll ask you what your pain points are and See if we got some solutions that can help you. speaker-1: Yeah. Wow. Well well Bill, I think th this is such an important conversation and it it's an area of ⁓ where I have seen in the past five or six years being in this industry and talking to leaders in this industry that that is a huge gap. And and the work that you're doing is so helpful for these organizations and these nonprofit leaders because it's skills as you know that sometimes they don't come to to to to into their nonprofit or found their nonprofit with. And it's it's a lot of times a limiting factor in them scaling the impact that they're having. So this is hugely important and and and I'm really glad that we have to have this conversation and and and talk through some of these challenges. So is there anything that maybe Well I wouldn't say speaker-0: You Joseph, thank you for what you're doing because you're impacting a lot of lives by bringing to to the audience people that they could never know about and never get engaged with. And I I just really appreciate your commitment to doing this because it's making a difference. speaker-1: Yeah. I I feel like there's there's a lot of overlaps of what we're we're both trying to do. Like we you know, we founded our organization to to add another channel and another media outlet to get these stories out to the public. 'Cause as you know, sometimes the these these nonprofit leaders are just heads down making an impact and not sharing the amazing work that they're doing. And so yeah, that was our our whole mission was to to share these stories and to drive engagement. So yeah, a lot of overlaps of of what we're both trying to do. speaker-0: Now you just gotta multiply it by ten. speaker-1: I know. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. Luckily we have some, you know, social media data that we could use to extrapolate that. well Bill, I really appreciate your time on a Friday. ⁓ and and again, ⁓ the the impact that you're you're having upstream and downstream is is hugely impactful for the industry and then for the lives of the people that these nonprofits are are impacting. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yes. speaker-0: I got one last question for you. Being six feet seven inches tall, how do you do in airplanes and on regular mattresses? speaker-1: Yeah. Great question. Fu probably f funny answer starting with the mattress. So in I think this reminds me of a Seinfeld episode. If people are or ever watched Seinfeld where the hotel people that clean the hotel rooms put their sheets really, really tight at the end of the bed. If anyone's experienced that, imagine with your feet hanging over what that feels like. So I've gotten to the point where if you lay on your stomach, your your feet could just l literally follow the shape of the mattress. So I I see that I I reframe my height as like in it the ability where my feet could be past a mattress and and just follow the shape of it face down. So I'm trying to reframe my height as a positive in in in bed situations like that. But yoga has helped me a ton with airplanes as well. So staying limber is the only way I could survive those, you know, eight hours to to Europe or, you know, fourteen hours to Korea that I go on occasionally. speaker-0: Wow. Wow. Well I'm six two and I have my feet typically are at the at the end of them in the mattress. I get that, but trying to help my ⁓ my grandson figure out some of this these life challenges. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ speaker-0: Yoga his mother's a yoga instructor, so I'm gonna tell him to start listening speaker-1: Yeah. That's huge. And if he grows another six inches, what six foot eight's the typical door frame, he'll start hitting that top part of his head on that door frame and it is not a good experience. So we'll only do that a couple of times, I'm sure. speaker-0: All right. Well thank you, Joseph. speaker-1: Thank you, Bill, so much for your time. Really appreciate work, and we're honored to to get your work out there and and and get some of these nonprofit leaders more engaged with you. So thank you so much. speaker-0: Thank you. Bye bye.