Latest / Trumponomics / 65: Dear Donald, Some Advice on China. Sincerely, Jon Huntsman

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65: Dear Donald, Some Advice on China. Sincerely, Jon Huntsman · Trumponomics

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  Speaker 1: Brought to you by Bank of America Merrill Lynch seeing
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  Speaker 1: what others have seen, but uncovering what others may not.
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  Speaker 1: Global Research that helps you harness disruption voted top global
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  Speaker 1: research from five years running. Meryll Lynch, Pierce, Fenner and
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  Speaker 1: Smith Incorporated. But if I were to sit down with
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: the President elect, I'd say, you have two ways to
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: see China. You can see China through a fear of prism,
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: and you can you can articulate the U. S. China
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  Speaker 1: relationship through fear to the American people, which I think
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  Speaker 1: does it a disservice, Or you can articulated through a
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  Speaker 1: prism of of opportunity, which I think there is a
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  Speaker 1: lot of on both sides. Hello, and welcome back to
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  Speaker 1: Bloomberg Benchmark, a show about the global economy. I'm Scott
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  Speaker 1: landman and economics editor with Bloomberg News in Washington, and
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  Speaker 1: I'm Danielmost, Executive editor for Global Economics at Bloomberg in
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  Speaker 1: New York. So, Dan, we heard a lot about China
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  Speaker 1: during the past year's election campaign. President elect Donald Trump
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  Speaker 1: spent a lot of time bashing China, talking about how
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  Speaker 1: it's manipulated its currency, taking jobs away from Americans. He's
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  Speaker 1: also pledged to pull out of a Pacific RIM trade accord,
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  Speaker 1: which gives China an opening to do its own big
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  Speaker 1: pan Asian trade deals. And while we're on transitions, China
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  Speaker 1: is going through one of its own. The ruling Communist
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  Speaker 1: Party is gearing up to elect their words it's new
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  Speaker 1: leadership team late next year. The speculation the President, Shi
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  Speaker 1: jing Ping, who took office as party secretary in could
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  Speaker 1: set himself up to lead the nation beyond tennees, which
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  Speaker 1: would break with race and practice and hawken back to
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  Speaker 1: the days of Chairman Mao. And in addition to a
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  Speaker 1: political transition, the country is also going through a profound
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  Speaker 1: economic transition. The China that Trump ranted and raved about
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  Speaker 1: during the campaign sounds like the low cost, low end
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  Speaker 1: sweatshop image stuck in the ninety nineties. But today it's
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  Speaker 1: not really about T shirts in Guangdong Province. It's about
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  Speaker 1: the Starbucks sprouting up all around the suburbs of Beijing
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  Speaker 1: and Shanghai. We have a distinguished guest today who can
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  Speaker 1: offer insight like few others on China's economy and politics.
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  Speaker 1: John Huntsman served as US Ambassador to China in the
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  Speaker 1: early years of the Obama administration and before that, elected
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  Speaker 1: twice as Republican governor of Utah. He's now co chairman
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  Speaker 1: with Joe Lieberman of No Labels, a group trying to
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  Speaker 1: push a nonpartisan economic agenda. He's also chairman of the
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  Speaker 1: Atlantic Council, I think tank in d C. And let's
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  Speaker 1: not forget briefly ran for President. John. We really appreciate
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  Speaker 1: you being here. Thank you Dan's guard. It's a pleasure
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  Speaker 1: to be with you. John. I just described Trump's image
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  Speaker 1: of China, one that probably looms large in the minds
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  Speaker 1: of many Americans. You were there for two years as ambassador,
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  Speaker 1: visited there many times. UH have deep connections there. How
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  Speaker 1: much of that picture that Trump described as true? And
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  Speaker 1: if you're briefing him on China, what would you tell him? Well,
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  Speaker 1: I think you have to see China. Uh. First of all,
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  Speaker 1: let's recognize where we are. We're in the political season.
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  Speaker 1: We're ending one aspect of political season. We're about to
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  Speaker 1: start the governing aspects of presidential politics. While at the
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  Speaker 1: same time in China, you've also got a political dynamic
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  Speaker 1: playing out in the run up to the nineteenth Party Congress,
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  Speaker 1: which will take place about a year from now. Party
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  Speaker 1: congresses they have every five years and have since the
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  Speaker 1: death of Mantzedong in nineteen six. So the peculiarity here
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  Speaker 1: is that you've got politics playing out in the United
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  Speaker 1: States and we're about to begin a political season in China,
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  Speaker 1: and they're almost running into each other in the form
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  Speaker 1: of a head on collision, which means on both sides,
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  Speaker 1: we're going to hear most more nativist talk, more nationalistic talk.
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  Speaker 1: We're going to talk about closing markets, not opening them.
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  Speaker 1: We're going to hear more about saber rattling as opposed
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  Speaker 1: to collaboration. I think this is to be expected, But
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  Speaker 1: if I were to sit down with the President elect,
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  Speaker 1: I'd say, you have two ways to see China. You
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  Speaker 1: can see China through a fear of prism and you
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  Speaker 1: can you can articulate the U. S. China relationship through
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  Speaker 1: fear to the American people, which I think does it
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  Speaker 1: a disservice, Or you can articulated through a prism of
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  Speaker 1: of opportunity, which I think there is a lot of
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  Speaker 1: on both sides. But you have to carefully balance the
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  Speaker 1: two to be sure. You have to recognize that we
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  Speaker 1: have some irreconcilable differences. You can spend a lot of
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  Speaker 1: time talking about them, but in the end there are
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  Speaker 1: no easy solutions. But as we talk about those, don't
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  Speaker 1: forget that we're we're wasting a lot of time by
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  Speaker 1: not talking about areas of commonality and collaboration. Uh. And
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  Speaker 1: they include economic opportunities both on trade and investment, on
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  Speaker 1: intellectual property protection, on the advancement of technology, opening markets
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  Speaker 1: where they are closed, helping China and make its transition
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  Speaker 1: from the old investment led export model to more of
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  Speaker 1: a consumption model, which is very good for US exports
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  Speaker 1: longer term. And there are a lot of areas of
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  Speaker 1: commonality on the security side, notwithstanding our friction in the
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  Speaker 1: South China Sea in the East China Sea, let's not
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  Speaker 1: forget we have a common cause as it relates to
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  Speaker 1: counter terrorism. We both want to calm down the Middle East.
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  Speaker 1: We want to make sure that the supply and the
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  Speaker 1: trade routes are are protected for purposes of prosperity, and
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  Speaker 1: we want to be prepared for disaster relief. When disaster strikes,
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  Speaker 1: how we can go to the aid of those affected countries.
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  Speaker 1: So there's a lot to be done on the on
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  Speaker 1: the positive side of the ledger, but we have to
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  Speaker 1: manage the downside friction as well, which is never an
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  Speaker 1: easy thing. So is the politics driving the economics at
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  Speaker 1: this moment or is the economics driving the politics? Well,
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  Speaker 1: that's that's a very very good question. I would say
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  Speaker 1: politics are driving much of the economy x because there
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  Speaker 1: is evidence that economics are driving some of the fear
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  Speaker 1: uh and anxiety that people feel here in the United States.
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  Speaker 1: Uh So, I suspect we're going to see some early
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  Speaker 1: clashes in the in the Trump administration. He has said
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  Speaker 1: that he would cite China as a currency manipulator. So
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  Speaker 1: let's just say that he does that on day one,
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  Speaker 1: which he said he would do. That takes us to
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  Speaker 1: January twenty or one. The Treasury Department, which manages these issues,
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  Speaker 1: has a semi annual report to Congress on currency manipulating countries.
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  Speaker 1: The next one up is in April. So if this
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  Speaker 1: just plays out as as it might, you could have
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  Speaker 1: China deemed a currency manipulator, which is in words only.
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  Speaker 1: But I suspect there may be some appetite on Capitol Hill,
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  Speaker 1: given that you've got a new balance of power on
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  Speaker 1: the Republican side in Congress that might want to stand
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  Speaker 1: behind Donald Trump because it does play well politically back home.
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  Speaker 1: And there are reasons that China is not playing by
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  Speaker 1: the playbook that everyone agreed to, at least under the
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  Speaker 1: w t O as session documents back back in two
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  Speaker 1: thousand one. UH. And if China were or if if
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  Speaker 1: the US Congress were to slap sanctions onto a currency
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  Speaker 1: manipulation bill, you could have some early days that that
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  Speaker 1: would include some some back and forth on the economic side,
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  Speaker 1: because China with then retaliate, of course in kind, and
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  Speaker 1: then you'd see a spiraling out of control of the
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  Speaker 1: bilateral trade and economic relationship until some equilibrium was found
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  Speaker 1: a little bit like the Tires case early on in
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  Speaker 1: the Obama administration. The great irony of this, though, is
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  Speaker 1: if China is manipulating the currency now, it's to prevent
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  Speaker 1: it from weakening. Why would Donald Trump want a week
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  Speaker 1: you want, Well, this is where you've got to sit
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  Speaker 1: down with the economists and you you have to you
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  Speaker 1: have to get the real story. So are they purposefully
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  Speaker 1: manipulating the running b or is it taken down as
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  Speaker 1: a result of an economy that is performing poorly? UH?
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  Speaker 1: And capital outflows are they you know, so they're protecting
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  Speaker 1: their currency to the tune of maybe sixty to a
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  Speaker 1: hundred billion dollars a month and have been for many months,
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  Speaker 1: which has taken their their foreign exchange reserves from four
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  Speaker 1: drillion maybe down to three point one where it sits today.
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  Speaker 1: So I think these are emergency measures that the Chinese
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  Speaker 1: are taken, just taking just to keep the currency afloat, uh,
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  Speaker 1: not manipulating for purposes of cheap chief exports. So once
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  Speaker 1: the facts are on the table, uh, And that rarely
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  Speaker 1: is the case when you're in the middle of a campaign,
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  Speaker 1: But once you're president, you've got to take a look
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  Speaker 1: at the facts and then and then based policy on
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  Speaker 1: that you might have you might have a different outcome. Well,
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  Speaker 1: you have a Democratic Senate leader, Chuck Schumer, who who
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  Speaker 1: has been uh, you know, leading this issue for many
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  Speaker 1: years to call China currency manipulator. He has a kindred spirit,
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  Speaker 1: it seems now in President elect Trump. Is there anything
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  Speaker 1: I mean you say that maybe when they see the
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  Speaker 1: facts on the ground, they might they might halt. Is
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  Speaker 1: there anything to to really stop them now? Or do
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  Speaker 1: you think you know, we're really on the verge of
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  Speaker 1: of going down that route. I suspect there will be
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  Speaker 1: a fulfillment of Trump's promise to cite them as a
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  Speaker 1: currency manipulator. I think the question will then become, are
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  Speaker 1: their punitive sanctions that back up those words from Congress? Uh?
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  Speaker 1: And if there are, I think we're in for uh,
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  Speaker 1: you know, a wild ride economically in the first six months.
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  Speaker 1: So this is an example of a president of fulfilling
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  Speaker 1: their campaign promise, and I think the Chinese, on the
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  Speaker 1: other side, are are fully prepared for that. The question
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  Speaker 1: will be how do they then retaliate and does that
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  Speaker 1: cause a counter retaliation and then a spiraling out of
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  Speaker 1: control of the economic relationship, which UH makes it more
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  Speaker 1: difficult to invest to trade. There's a loss in confidence
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  Speaker 1: overall that we we wipe out a year or two
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  Speaker 1: of productive economic engagement. I think the first few months
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  Speaker 1: will really be telling well. And to be fair, Donald
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Trump was not the first presidential candidate to bash China
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  Speaker 1: on the campaign trial Bill Clinton famously referred to the
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  Speaker 1: butchers of Beijing. Yet if anything, the economic relationship with
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: China became far more intimate under his administration. How do
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  Speaker 1: you see this shaking out in reality? Well, you can
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: go all the way back to Ronald Reagan. I remember
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: because I worked for him when he talked about moving
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  Speaker 1: our ambassador out of Beijing. Remember we we we had
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: the fulfillment of the Shanghai community in nineteen seventy nine
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: under Jimmy Carter, our ambassador went from Taipei to Beijing.
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  Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan talked about bringing him back to Taibei uh
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  Speaker 1: and then made a famous trip. I was on that
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  Speaker 1: trip with him as part of the staff in the
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  Speaker 1: early nineteen eighties and spoke to a billion Chinese people
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  Speaker 1: on live television and had warm discussions with Dung Hiao
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: Ping and some of the other early leaders where they
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: talked about most favored nations, aid that they talked about
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: non proliferation. You never would have guessed that in the
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: heat of the nineteen eighty campaign, and the same U
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: site with Bill Clinton, and the list goes on and
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: on and on. So the governing aspects of the U. S.
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  Speaker 1: China relationship are are a lot different than the campaign
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: aspects of the U. S. China relationship. So once in office,
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  Speaker 1: you have to look at your stakes, your equities UH
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: and and how you can manage what clearly is the
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: most important relationship of the twenty century. Now, now you
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: might be a little biased on this question, but how
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: much does it matter who President elect picks as his
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: ambassador to China, And how important is the ambassador's role
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: in managing that relationship compared with say the president or
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: the Secretary of State or the Treasury secretary. I think
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  Speaker 1: the and I am a little bit biased having served
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: in that position, I think the ambassador in Beijing is
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: disproportionately important because the part of the role is to
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  Speaker 1: explain the U S system to Chinese leaders, to party
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  Speaker 1: leaders who oftentimes are very confused about how we do business. Uh.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: And then on the flip side, it's too explain to
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: senior leaders in the US government how the Chinese side
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  Speaker 1: works and how through it all we can actually come
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  Speaker 1: up with with a strategy, bilateral strategy to get a
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: few things done. Because the stakes are so high on
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  Speaker 1: both sides, and because both are members of the U
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  Speaker 1: N Security Council, both are nuclear armed, We've got the
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  Speaker 1: two largest economies on the face of the earth, growing
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: numbers of disputes. It's ever important to have an ambassador
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: who can carry messages back and forth. But in the end,
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: let's face it, it really will depend on how much
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: skin the president wants to put in the game. So
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: if you want to just sort of manage the downside
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  Speaker 1: without any sense of building the upside capacity, you can
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: do that. You can sort of manage downside friction and
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: risks and all of that, but you lose the upside
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  Speaker 1: potential of the relationship. We haven't had in quite some time.
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  Speaker 1: Uh And I would say Richard Nixon tried to do
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  Speaker 1: this when he kicked off the relationship shortly after is
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: managing a true strategic dialogue which takes a little bit
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: of what the Chinese want and what the United States want.
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  Speaker 1: But it's sort of countercultural for us because we're short
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: term thinkers, were more transactional. We negotiate in ways that
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: achieve a certain defined outcome. The Chinese, on the other hand,
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: want to think in terms of forty years. Uh. And
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: we haven't been able to really strike a long term
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  Speaker 1: strategic relationship that spell out our goals over a long
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: period of time. And I would advocate for any incoming
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: president of the United States to build a strategy visa
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  Speaker 1: of Eachina that serves US interests, that brings on a
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: bilateral basis problem solvers together in State Department, Treasury, Commerce,
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: Defense Department in ways that do more than just talk
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: about the tactical, but are able to engage in more
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: of the strategic. Just going back to your time on
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: White House staff in the eighties again, does this sound
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: like the white people talked about the US Japan relationship
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: back in the eighties in the early nineties in terms
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: of economic mercantilism. Yes, because I was also in a
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: trade position in the eighties which brought me in contact
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: with Japan UH, and we had the structural impediments initiative,
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: you know, we had all kinds of concerns about their
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: mercantilistic behavior and activity, only to find and tremendous levels
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: of investments coming in the United into the United States,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: buying a lot of trophy UH investments that are well
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: known by by most of your listeners, H. And that
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: all came to an end, and the structural efficiencies were
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: never adequately addressed in Japanese policy making, and they still
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: exist today. I would say in the case of China,
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: it is a more resilient economy, it's mercantilistic today. One
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  Speaker 1: of the big problems is You've got state owned enterprises
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  Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty thousand of them that have not
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: been touched, that have gone beyond being reformed. Some of
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: them have been built up in recent years as a
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: matter of fact, and they are backwaters of of inefficiencies. UH.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: Sweetheart contracts for princeling UH, princeling members of Chinese society.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: They get discounted capital, they get cheaper raw materials, and
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: they basically engage in nationalistic business practices, and no one
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: has had the political will to take them on UH.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: And I suspect that if if the third plan of
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: reforms that Chi Jinping talked about after the last Party Congress,
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: the eighteenth Party Congress, in if thet or if the
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: third plan of reforms which were talked about in the
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: end of twenty are to come to fruition which really
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: get to the heart and soul of cleaning up the system,
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: the state owned enterprises are going to have to be
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: dealt with realistically, brought down, bankrupted, a new debt market
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: established in order to accommodate some of the inefficiencies. If
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: if that isn't done, I think the Chinese economy is
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: in for long term serious problems. Japan never dealt with
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: those inefficiencies, and we're seeing what what what that is
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: brought about. I was there three years ago for those
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: the announcement of those Third Plenum reforms, and we're still
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: waiting for some of them to to be implemented. Let's
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: leave that thought there and take a quick break for
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: a word from our sponsor. Will be right back. Brought
• 16:48
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• 16:51
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• 16:54
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• 17:10
  Speaker 1: And we're back John. Let's turn to China's so called elections,
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: that's the word they use. But at all levels the
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: candidates are picked by the Communist Party, so anyone who
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: votes doesn't actually have a choice of candidates. We don't
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: get to see the kinds of deals and machinations that
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: happened behind the scenes that they do to choose the
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: leaders all the way up to the top level. And
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: yet when you take a long view of it, this
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: authoritarian system has lifted hundreds of millions of people out
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: of poverty, kept the economy growing at a relatively rapid
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: pace and made China into a global power. They like
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: to criticize the way democracy works in the US and
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: other Western nations. Is there any merit in their viewpoint? Well,
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: I would also say they achieved that success through doing
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: it the old fashioned way and the and the easy way,
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: which is bad your currency, drawing on cheap labor, and
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: exporting products to the major markets of the world while
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: keeping your own domestic markets relatively locked up. Uh. And
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: now they're hitting the middle income trap, which is causing
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: a new reality for them. They have to transition into
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: a consumption model in order for their economy to prosper
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: longer term and for and for people to move more
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: into the middle income categories into the middle class. So
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: I see coming with that a lot of opportunities for
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: the United States. I see more more purchasing power on
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: the part of a consumer class. It will be hundreds
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: of millions strong, which is great for US exports. The
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: Chinese love to buy US products where they're available, and
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: I think increasingly will find more and more opportunity there.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: And I think on the investment side, will see more
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: in the way of Chinese investment here in the United
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: States that will run more in parallel with US investment
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: in China. We're already seeing evidence of that, and the
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: political implications, of course, will be fairly profound domestically, as
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: Jen Ping pries to keep hold of a one party
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: system which doesn't want to be a one party system.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about that shift to consumption for a moment.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Do you feel that, uh, the shift away from exports
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: and fixed usset investment to service as a consumption. Do
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: you think that is broadly understood in the United States?
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: In otherwise it's not your grandfather's Chinese economy anymore. No, No,
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: it isn't, um, and I don't think it's it's largely understood.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: I think we're we still see China through a prism
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: that has maybe dated by twenty years. We're not looking
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: at online purchases, which if you so, don't look at
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: inventories of steel and coal and aluminum, which are off
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: the charts high um that that's not a good leading
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: indicator of where China's economy is going. It's where it's been.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: The leading indicators really are our online sales. Look at
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: travel and tourism, look at airline seats, being purchased. UH.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: Look at outbound tourism. UH. Look at legal and architectural services,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: look at education and healthcare services. There's a lot going
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: on behind the scenes. And what is exciting for me
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: is the United States does extremely well in many of
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: these service related areas. And once the markets are more
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: and more open, UH, and we're able to define the
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: China of the twenty century as opposed to the late
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: twentieth century, I think we'll have more in the way
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: of opportunities. So it would be ironic if we got
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: into a trade wall with China based on a part
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: of the Chinese economy that effectively is over. Anyway is
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: effective is effectively over. As a matter of fact, you know,
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: the bloom is off the rose from a manufacturing standpoint,
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: that the golden days are are gone. China's labor rates
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: are are are on the on the rise. You've got
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: more people leaving the workforce than entering the workforce. By
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: they could be deficit twenty million workers. UH. And who's
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: picking it up. We'll take a look south into Vietnam, India,
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: Bangladesh and beyond. Uh. So China is fundamentally entering a
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: new playing field. From an economic standpoint, and we do
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: ourselves a disservice by not identifying properly where they're going
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: and what therefore the opportunities are for US investors and traders.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: Why isn't that breaking through? Well, remember Dan that we're
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: still in a political season. And when you're in a
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: political season, you don't talk by way of opportunities, you
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: talk by way of fear. UH. And when you talk
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: by way of fear, you talk about deficits, You talk
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: about threats, you talk about foreign investment that is taking
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: away jobs. You talk about UH saber rattling on the
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: security side. So now that we're beyond that, it'll be
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: very interesting to see if President elect Trump is able
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: to take the U S. China relationship and sort it
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: out into something that represents less fear and more opportunity
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: for job creation here in the euided States, US export
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: potential UH IN and overall economic relationship that of course
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: is going to be UH riddled with challenges and problems,
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: but also there will be plenty of opportunities. Talking about
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: the current political situation in the United States and turning
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: away from China, we can we can't let you go
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: without asking a few questions about what's going on here
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: right now. And one of the major stories in the
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: news is whether Mr Trump will pick Romney, your fellow
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: former Utah governor, as UH Secretary of State. How do
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: you think Governor Romney would do as as a secretary
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: of State. Well, it's not even worth my speculating on
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: any potential candidates. I think President elect Trump has a
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: pretty good sense of where he wants to take the world.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: I think it will be important to have people who
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: are of common mind as they see where he wants
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: to go. Clearly, were some international affairs foreign policy themes
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: that came through in the campaign, and they included, Uh,
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: the Middle East, We've been there too long, there's too
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: much of an overhang, something that's got to be addressed.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: Trade was prominent, which is a big foreign policy issue, uh,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: And that was we've got to get trade agreements that
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: are they're fair to American workers. And immigration was the
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: third big area that is a foreign policy issue. So
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: I suspect that if these three areas are going to
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: be prominent in in the early days of a Trump administration,
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: he's got to have people around him who were fluent
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: and conversant in where he wants to take the United
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: States and what is uh? An increasingly disaggregated world. And
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: have you had a telephone call? I've had a telephone call.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: And what was the purpose of that? Just just a
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: congratulatory call to Mr Trump. Yeah, we can't also let
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: you leave here without asking a question about your own
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: personnel plans. You're you're here with us in EC today,
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: but your roots are in Utah. You're a popular governor
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: there for some time. Uh. You're you've actually partially moved
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: back to Utah, kind of splitting your time. And I've
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: read that there there's a speculation that you're considering a
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: run for the U. S. Senate from Utah. In is
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: that true? Well, listen, we've Utah's home. I was. I
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: was born and raised in California. I was raised in Utah.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: I've spent time overseas, living overseas four times. Utah's our home, uh,
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: and we feel pretty passionately about that. And we've we've
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: gone back and forth the last few years, UH, and
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: we're looking forward to spending more and more of our
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: time there. I've always said that I've got one more
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: run left in our bones. And I don't know what
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: that will be. But I love this country. I've got
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: two sons serving in uniform. I have always believed that
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: our best days are ahead, and we're going to take
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: a good look at Uh. It may be a future
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: Senate run in the state of Utah. And would you
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: run as an independent or as a Republican? Well, I've
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: been a Republican my entire life. I've watched the Republican
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: Party go through different phases, trying to find trying to
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: find itself. But I'm of the Party of Lincoln. I'm
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: of the Party of Roosevelt, of Eisenhower, of Ronald Reagan.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: I kind of know where our roots are. Uh. And
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: I think I know where the Republican Party's roots are.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: And we've gone round and round trying to find them,
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: and I think we we might still travel some distance
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: before finding exactly what our traditional roots are. And one
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: more question, would you run if Senator Hatch decides to
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: stand for re election, would you run against him in
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: a primary? Well, we'd have to decide whether or not
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: we're actually going to to enter the race. Uh. And
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: that in part would be based on what Senator has
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: chooses to do. He's been a productive Senator for nearly
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: half a century. I'm somebody personally who believes in term limits.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: I always have you get into your job, you get out,
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: hopefully leaving a little bit better for the next person
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: to take over. Um. But time will tell on that,
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: Governor Huntsman, thank you so much for joining us today.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: This has been a really insightful and fascinating conversation. It's
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: been a great pleasure. Thank you. Benchmark will be back
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: next week and until then, you can find us on
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Terminal and Bloomberg dot com, as well as
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: on iTunes, pocketcasts, and Stitcher. While you're there, take a
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: minute to rate and review the show so more listeners
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: can find us and let us know what you thought
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: of the show. You can talk to and follow us
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: on Twitter at Daniel Moss, d c at Scott Landman,
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: and our guest at John hunts Thanks for listening and
• 26:30
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