Latest / The Nonprofit Podcast / Ep 217| Strategic Planning Isn't an Implementation Problem - with Dr. Renee Rubin Ross

Transcript

Ep 217| Strategic Planning Isn't an Implementation Problem - with Dr. Renee Rubin Ross · The Nonprofit Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Say the word strategic planning, and guess what?
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_02: Half of the room, they either look away, or the other half immediately pulls out their phones.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: That is because we have all been deeply traumatized by the strategic planning process.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it was that summer retreat with your board, maybe it was being cramped into a conference room, but your paper up on the wall, a marker about to die.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: Either way, you have spent weeks working on a strategic plan, and guess what?
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: Three months later, it's not being used at all.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_02: If you survived a brutal planning process that went nowhere, if you're about to start a new one, hey, stick around because we're gonna be breaking that loop today.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: The Nonprofit Podcast powered by DonorBox.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Nonprofit Podcast.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Britt, your fundraiser coach here at DonorBox.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: The timing of today's episode couldn't be better, right?
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: Giving you a say.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: They just dropped their latest report.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, total giving has hit a historical record, but we also know everyday individual donors, right?
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's shrinking.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: And why that matters is because so many nonprofits out there cannot afford to guess their next step.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you really need a realistic strategy to stay afloat.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: And we all know that standard strategic planning doesn't always work.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: My guest today has spent years, she studied how to fix this.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: Dr.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: Renee Rubin Ross is a founder of the Ross Collective, the director of the Nonprofit Management Certificate Program at Cal State East Bay, and the author of Inclusive Strategic Planning for Nonprofits.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: Her core argument is this strategic planning isn't about implementation, it is about participation.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: If your frontline staff and your community aren't involved from day one, well, guess what?
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: You're just making a document that no one's gonna read.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: She wrote this book, listeners, for organizations like yours, because many of you have budgets under 500K.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have budgets for outside consultants.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: Renee, welcome to the show.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, so good to be here, Britt.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you for having me.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, thank you, Renee.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I wanted to start here.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I like to spice things up a little bit.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm looking at my bookshelf right now in my office.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: There are so many books on strategic planning.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: I have to ask, what made you say no?
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like I need to write another one.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know what?
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I could talk about this forever.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, the truth is that we work with clients in Northern California and around the country on planning.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I started to develop this process over many years, and we were working with people and they just kept asking more and more questions.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: How do you do this?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: How do you do this?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: How do you do this?
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: What are the steps?
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: People feel so confused about strategic planning, especially when they start, right?
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because, like, well, wait, what, wait, I don't understand what's going to happen next.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: What's a goal?
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: What's an objective?
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I just started writing it all down.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then it was like at the beginning, I was like, all right, this is something that we can give to like our clients and our potential clients just to explain what's involved in the process.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because um, when you have that clarity, which is really one of the themes of the book, you know, the more you understand where you're going, even in planning, the more you feel like a sense of ownership over it versus someone else out there is is controlling this, you know.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I started writing it all down.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then as I was doing this, I was like, all right, this could be a book and it could really help people.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I had some beta readers who read the book and gave some feedback, and their feedback was in for the initial couple drafts, was was who's the audience for the book?
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, well, who is the audience for the book?
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and they're like, is it just clients of the Ross Collective or is it a larger group?
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, actually, it is a larger group of people who, exactly what you're describing, Britt, who want to DIY this and want to know what the steps are and really understand why participation, as you're saying, matters.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: So the tone of the book changed, and I created something that describes how to do planning step by step, but also really talks about as is in the title, what is an inclusive process?
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: And how people who are in the process matter.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that's really what I saw was missing from other books, which I also have a bunch of myself.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a lot about um, here's this step here, here's this step there, here's the form you should fill out, here's what's to what to put in the survey, but seem to forget that this is really a people-oriented process.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: And what I'm hearing, uh, Dr.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: Ross, is it's not just breaking free of this presumption that who are the leaders in the room, right?
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, usually who do we invite?
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: The board, D, usually it's not the frontline worker.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: So it's changing that dynamic.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: But something I hear from you is this is not necessarily a process.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, this is a five-step spiral.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's that one-word spiral.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: Can you walk our listeners through what that five-step spiral generally looks like?
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if you if you get the book, it's on page 29.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so, so yeah, so why was this a spiral?
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think that this is the fun of it.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I don't know.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's fun, is that you start with the kickoff.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, most of these processes are gonna be similar.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna start at the beginning, you're gonna do some research, discovery work, and then you're gonna start to do some prioritization, which involves what is it that we want to see in place in the next three years as a result of our actions.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then you're gonna get into planning, which is really those goals, and going into the implementation, which is really getting your plan into your work plan.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: But but the reason why it's a spiral is rather than like linear is that there are things that emerge in each step that might impact, you know, until you get to the end, it really keeps developing.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: And even when you finish, because um, one of the things that we recommend is that this is not just something that sits on the shelf.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta keep revisiting this.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: And uh it's funny because I teach a class in strategic planning, and so someone came to my class and they said, Yeah, I don't understand.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, this organization is always planning.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what is going on?
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: What's wrong with them?
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: They're always planning.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I was at the time I was like, yeah, what is wrong with them?
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: But now I guess I understand it a little better.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: The point is, yeah, you're always going to need to reflect on where are we trying to go and how is that going, right?
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that's really the definition of planning in a very general way.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: You need to uh keep doing that to stay focused.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, this is good and it breaks free of everything I've done in the past where really plan, check, check, check, right?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then we're done.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: What I'm hearing, Dr.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: Ross, is energy.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: I know this is the tagline in your book, right?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: There's energy, it's fluid, right?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's fluid.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: I want to be real here, though.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'm thinking as a former ED, okay saying, okay, come on, Renee, I got a million things going on.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have time for this cyclical process that is something I'm going to always be doing.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: And then what happens is they sprint past the foundational stuff to get to the quick answers.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: In this process, the spiral process, do you see steps completely skipped over when you're working with these plans?
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: So um I think that's really interesting.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the things that we do is we have people work on these three-year goals, but then we actually do um a one-year implementation plan.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that is um it's really key because it's like, okay, how do you go from um we wanna serve more students to specifically we're going to reach out to X number of schools in order to make sure that our program is in those schools.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: But if you don't do some kind of implementation planning, you run the risk that you're gonna have something that's inspiring, but everyone on your team is gonna be like, hmm, well, what does this actually mean?
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that is something that we've seen.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, I mean, and and I think that's where you need to say, okay, and I talk about this in the book too.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's if you just start doing a lot of visioning without the concrete stuff, then you have a vision board.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's great.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: But you got to show there's a balance here.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: You want to, you want an inspiring, you want to know, like, why?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: What's the why?
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: Why are we doing this?
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: Why does our work matter?
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: Why do we care about it?
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: And those kinds of questions come up in the early stages in terms of visioning.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: But then you do need to get to, okay, given all of that, how does that impact the work we're doing?
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I I I love this.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I know we we get boxed into thinking that, okay, we need to do a strategic planning session every three or five years.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: Some nonprofits do it 10 years.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: Is there like the sector-wide best practice, or is it very unique to the organizations?
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_02: Do you do you have a preference when you're working with these clients?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think that a lot of organizations these days are doing three-year plans.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: There's just so much uncertainty.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so let's say you create a a three-year plan with some goals.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: And by the way, on the Ross Collective website, there is a page that is just has a whole bunch of samples because it's really, really helpful to see, you know, what some of these goals look like.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: And there's also, of course, a lot of samples in the book.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but but yeah, you want to um get the three-year goals.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then sometimes people extend it, but the thing about it is that there's so much uncertainty with um, you know, with COVID and then cuts to nonprofits and all kinds of things that um it's hard to make a plan for longer than three years.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: But yes, you can can extend it if you need to, if you feel like, okay, our goals are still the same, but we're just gonna extend it, which I've seen some orgs do.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's that delicate balance of given the times of uncertainty, right?
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: That's just the way of the nonprofit world.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's something that can stand to time that that is adaptive.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: Let's talk about that a little bit more.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: We both know in history there's always uncertain times, but these times are really surreal.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: What is the defining moment?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: How does a leader actually know that they're ready?
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: Signal after us or a or a sign?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, I'm kind of laughing because when I was writing the book, I started just by going into what does planning involve in step one, two, three, and then beta readers said, Hey, you know, well, how do we know that we're ready?
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Oh, good point.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I've actually created step zero, which is to determine your readiness for planning, right?
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so some of the things you might be looking at, first of all, capacity, right?
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: If you're like, we are wrung out, we cannot do anything else, okay, that's not the time.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: You need to shift the allocation of your workload, figure out what you're gonna do before this is a big project to take on.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, some other things to look at are your financial stability and your programmatic stability.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: If you have just hit some really big budget cuts and you don't know where your funding is gonna be coming from for next year, what you need to work on that first.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and this is a little bit of like chicken and egg.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it kind of depends how much room you have, because a lot of organizations right now have hit some of these.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: But um, it may be that you're you're just gonna focus on funding and then you're gonna come back to that kind of more visionary planning once things are a little calmer.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: So there is an assessment um in the book in chapter zero that organizations can do.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if you're not ready for a full three-year plan, then what we recommend is do a one-year action plan.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: And just say, hey, we know that these are our three most important goals, or even this is our one most important goal, and we're gonna be working on that in the coming year.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: Nice.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: I hadn't even thought about a zero, a step zero in it.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm seeing this as an evolving fluid process.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I imagine in this process that you facilitate, is it bound to dig up some internal dysfunction and tension?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yes, yes.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, of course.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: One of the one of the interesting questions that we get sometimes is like, well, does your planning process include a focus on recruitment and retention?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: And the answer is yes, right?
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: Always.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: And and actually, we don't have to specifically include that.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: All we have to do is say, what do you want to see in place?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: What do we want to see in place as a result of our actions and have people brainstorm on that and kind of build this collaborative practical vision together?
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: When they do that and they say, you know, what do we want to see in place?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: What naturally comes out of that is things like, we want to be the best organization to work for around here.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: We want to have competitive salaries, we want to have great professional development, we want to build a positive staff culture.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and then building goals around that as well.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because people who are on the team, again, this kind of goes back to why you want that participation and what it means.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's not just about how do we start with our with our org and make it a great, wonderful place to work, and then we can, you know, support the community out there as well.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm hearing like just having that participation, the buy-in of stakeholders that we don't historically include, that is an outcome.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: And let's be real like when we're inviting other voices, it's gonna be messy.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: It it that's gonna be what makes it inclusive is the messiness.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: We're not, it's not like we're doing a PR campaign.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: And even um talking about you know, this discovery process where you may do um might do interviews or focus groups or surveys, you're gonna learn a lot.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we do say, like, we're gonna learn a lot.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's not all gonna be actionable, right?
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of different ideas of what the organization should do and who they should serve and da-da-da-da.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: But it's about at the beginning, you open it up, you get a lot of ideas, and then you're gonna put some of them in your list and you're gonna say, well, that's a great one.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: But the people who are doing the work really get to weigh in on what is gonna happen next, right?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: And that's those are the people who come to the strategic planning retreat.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: It might be all of the staff and the board, you know, depending.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: It might be the the ED and the board, if this is a small org with not too much staff, but it's really the people who are doing the work get to weigh in on um what's gonna happen going forward.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: And again, this is isn't about politeness or or being like a sterile environment.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: We want that tension, we want some messiness.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: But out of curiosity, has there ever been a time where in this process it's gotten so dysfunctional where you're like, I can't, I can't work with this client anymore?
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: A number of years ago, something happened that was really hard.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna zoom back a little.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: So part of the process is there are these three levels of participation.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: There are concentric circles.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: In the inner circle is the deciders.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: These are the people who have the ultimate decision-making power in the plan.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: It might be the ED and the board president, it might be a couple members of the leadership team.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: Going out from there is the builders.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: So these are all the people who weigh in on the goals and the vision and all that.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then going out from there are the sharers.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: So those are people who share their perspective, maybe in surveys or focus groups or interviews.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: The one hard thing that happened many years ago was that we had a process and it wasn't really clear who the deciders were.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: In other words, we were working with someone who said that he that he was uh the decider, and we built the whole plan, and then someone else apparently was the decider and said, no, I don't like this and we're not gonna use it.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh, I guess in you know, in retrospect, we needed to get more clarity about who was actually making the decisions.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: But sometimes, even as the consultants, it's not very clear because the person who was working with us thought that he was the decider.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, yes, I mean, you gotta get the stuff worked out.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I admire that about you, Dr.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: Ross.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's like I'm thinking about the the way the economy is right now, right?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: And you see an invoice with a lovely payment, but it sounds like you have prioritized integrity of like, hey, I'm gonna step away because this is more important than charging them for something that is just not gonna work out.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: I will say we did a consult also a while back, and this organization, the ED started to say, um, yeah, well, um, my board members don't really know anything.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: And they just they don't they have no idea and and we just need to tell them what to do.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like, I don't think I'm your person, because our theory of of our work is basically we work to build a participatory process that honors each person's perspective and honors and affirms and brings out the wisdom of the room.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, if someone doesn't want to do that, then you know, maybe you can call AI and get a strategic plan in about 30 seconds.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: Call up AI.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um you probably had clients, the the whole planning process has been fabulous, right?
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you have a plan and they even are equipped to actually execute it so it doesn't just sit there, but sometimes things happen, right?
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then that strategic plan, even if it includes participation, is never executed.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: Is that, in your opinion, a planning failure?
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: Is that a leadership failure?
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: What happens here?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like where who's responsible?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's a big loaded question.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate the question, and I've certainly thought about it a lot because let's say we work with an organization for a certain amount of time, and even if we work with them to create that one-year implementation plan, there's still a point where there's a handoff.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: More recently, we've tried to get more granular with our clients and really say, okay, you have the plan, but how are you going to convert this from something that is on quote unquote on paper to something that is going into your work plan and your tasks and all that?
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we recently had an organization and they used um R R A C I matrix where you look at, you know, who's responsible, accountable, consulted, informed.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so they took their whole plan and started to think about um what's the work involved and who's gonna do it.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: And that's really like the healthy project management way of going from strategic plan to going to something that that starts to come alive.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and maybe that sounds dry ass, but that's it.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's really just continuing to have the conversation.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I will say that another org that we worked with a few years ago, they they went through this, they did this, the the Rocky matrix, and they found out that one person on the team was responsible for 15 new projects.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's where you say, okay, what we we now are noticing that uh the strategic plan is going to demand more of us.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: And what do we need to do?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: Do we need to shift some responsibilities around?
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: Do we need to hire new people?
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: Do we need to decide that we're gonna do one third of this right now and we're gonna do one third of this in another time?
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so uh there's a whole bunch of possibilities, but you really um, if you've done a good job, you will generate new ideas.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's, you know, because yeah, people have ideas.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's not a bad thing, but you really do want to um start going down the that road of thinking about how is this gonna really become alive in our organization.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I imagine in these planning sessions, sometimes we get in our own way where we invite a variety of stakeholders in the room, right?
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: And we have that participation, but if there's ego involved in the room, especially for many of us who are leaders, if someone asks that hard question, it's innate where we want to shut it down or we want to protect the status quo.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: So I think sometimes we need to be aware we prevent a lot of these lively things from happening.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think like again, the whole point of this is so a couple things, like just knowing that um, yeah, people are working really hard right now.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: There's certainly a lot of concerns about burnout, and it's really important to um of honor what people say they can and cannot do, right?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then at the same time, all right, um, what we've agreed that we want to focus on this.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so perhaps if we're gonna focus on this, we do need to drop that over there, right?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: And that's okay too.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: There is some Need to, you know, to find some balance.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: Strategic planning is not about saying we can do everything.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's about actually saying our most important core work is this.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: And one more question for you.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I appreciate you.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: I know you just came back from a long trip.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: What for our listeners tuning in right now, what do they have to lose when they don't include their frontline staff and get that community buy-in?
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: What do they have to do to have that participation?
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: In my strategic planning class, sometimes people come to the class and they have this strategic planning drama that they that they have experienced.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so people say things like, Yeah, someone handed me a plan and I have no idea what's what it means and what's going on, you know.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, you don't want that.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: You actually want a plan where people feel like my voice was part of this.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: And the goals that we set are realistic for the time and energy and capacity that we have.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think what you can lose if you just create your plan with AI or do not create an inclusive process is really everyone having the clarity and buy-in.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_02: Hmm.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: And listeners, we're gonna drop Dr.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: Ross's website, her contact information, where uh she's even providing you with a five-step framework, which you can download for free in the show notes.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Renee, thank you so much.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: This has been so helpful.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: Where can folks find you?
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: Is it your website?
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: Is it LinkedIn?
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, both.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm on LinkedIn posting and also the website, the Ross Collective, and we send out our newsletter on nonprofit strategy, racial equity, and leadership twice a month.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um and yeah, um, get the book, Inclusive Strategic Planning.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: If you like it, write a review.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: We're still trying to get the word out.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: For sure.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I think thanks again, Dr.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: Ross, for joining me.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: I know your work was unique.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's not your traditional strategic planning process.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: And hey, just my ears perked up as soon as I saw an academic alone on top of an author and a nonprofiteer from the eSpace.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: So you have my heart.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I just wanted to thank you for making time with us.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, my pleasure.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I really um my hope is that this book can help a lot of people come together, have important conversations that increase their clarity and focus, energy alignment, as says in the book, and just really fun to have the opportunity to talk with you about this.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, till next time, thanks so much, Dr.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: Ross.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yay, thank you.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: And thank you for being part of the nonprofit podcast community.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: Your work matters.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: We are honored to support it.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, if you've enjoyed this episode, please share it, leave us a review, or subscribe to our YouTube channel.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: Until next time, take that first step and stay inspired.
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