Latest / All Figured Out with Andrea Barr: Figuring Out Work, Life and Parenting / 88. Finding your flock in motherhood with Gemma Van Slyke of The Motherflock

Transcript

88. Finding your flock in motherhood with Gemma Van Slyke of The Motherflock · All Figured Out with Andrea Barr: Figuring Out Work, Life and Parenting

0:00
Welcome back to the All Figured Out podcast.
0:02
I'm your host, Andrea Barr. Thank you so much for joining me
0:05
again this week. It has been such a pleasure
0:08
getting to know my guest today, Gemma Van Slyke, who is the
0:11
founder of the Mother Flock, which is a Vancouver based
0:14
community and resource hub helping moms navigate the
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isolating, identity shifting roller coaster, which many of us
0:21
know about, of postpartum mattresses and motherhood.
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She is such a light. She comes from Scotland.
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She spent time in Australia and she had two very, very different
0:32
postpartum experiences, 1, being in Australia, 1 being here in
0:35
Canada. And it's really interesting to
0:37
just hear what her motherhood experience and journey has been
0:41
like. She has taken a power pause in
0:44
her career. She was formerly an elementary
0:46
school teacher and she is a stay at home mom.
0:50
But who is starting the mother flock?
0:51
So she is no longer a stay at home mom in its entirety.
0:56
She wears 2 hats now and she's also the partner of a physician.
1:00
And we talk about the demand, you know, somebody who has a
1:03
really demanding partner, who has a really demanding role and
1:08
what that can be like. And we just had a really great
1:10
conversation. It's definitely the vibe of just
1:13
two friends having a chat and just real talk talking about,
1:17
you know, the highs and the lows of motherhood and the experience
1:21
of looking to find your purpose. So I really hope you enjoy.
1:25
Gemma is so wonderful. And.
1:28
Yeah, enjoy. You're listening to the All
1:33
Figured Out podcast. I'm your host, Andrea Barr.
1:38
I'm a career coach for parents, mom of two, and a
1:41
self-proclaimed expert at winging it.
1:43
After 10 years in the corporate world, two major career pivots,
1:46
and navigating life with kids, I've learned one thing.
1:50
No parent has it all figured out, and that's OK.
1:53
Here, we're all about growing personally and professionally
1:57
while keeping family time sacred.
1:59
You'll get practical tips, career strategies, and musings
2:02
on life, plus guest experts to help us fill in the gaps.
2:05
So grab a coffee or hide in your car sometime.
2:09
We're about to figure out this work life and parenting stuff
2:12
out together. Gemma vents like thank you so
2:17
much for joining me on the all figured out podcast.
2:19
Hi, Andre, how you doing? Good, so nice to have you here.
2:23
Only for having me. You're so welcome.
2:26
We just met recently and it's been so lovely.
2:29
Yeah, it was just, I loved, I loved our our meet cute and
2:32
meeting you on the on the Zooms, even though we're both in the
2:35
greater Vancouver area. But yeah, it's wonderful to meet
2:38
people who are in the same space and same community.
2:41
And now you have such a fascinating story.
2:44
So you have an accent that does not sound Canadian.
2:46
No. But nor is it Australian, though
2:49
you have lived there. So take us back.
2:52
Where are you from? I want to hear your your
2:56
traveling journey. Yes, I'm from Glasgow and
2:58
Scotland and I've moved around quite a bit.
3:04
Uh, then England for a little bit and then have been in
3:08
Australia and then back to Scotland and have been in
3:11
Vancouver in between all that. So Vancouver is now my home, but
3:16
all my family and friends and stuff are still back and in
3:19
Glasgow. I mean, for a a Scottish accent
3:22
it's not that strong, but I also try and pronounce it when people
3:27
aren't used to it, so yeah. Like you were just telling off
3:30
air. We were chatting.
3:31
Yeah. You're talking about your
3:32
husband. And I had no idea what you said
3:34
at 1st and then yeah. And then you did a Canadian
3:36
accent. You're like Aaron And I was
3:38
like, yeah, it's. Aaron, I feel like I'm just
3:42
putting on a voice, but yeah. Well, it would be like if I
3:44
tried. I didn't even attempt to say it
3:46
in your add-in. And then people think I'm saying
3:50
Adam, and then a small thing. Yeah, like, I mean, well,
3:53
because we were talking about names and pronunciation, Andrea.
3:56
Yeah, yeah, it's the whole thing.
3:58
Oh, I love that. So when you go back to Scotland
4:00
or people like, oh, look at you, Canadian accent.
4:02
Yeah, they're like, no, you, you sound so Canadian and then here
4:06
like. Soul.
4:07
Canadian. Yeah.
4:09
So Canadian. I don't know, I'm just speaking.
4:12
My husband has. I'm obsessed with accents
4:14
because I kind of AM the movie. Yeah, this is the total side,
4:20
side changed. But I'll be watching a movie and
4:22
like, all of a sudden I'll be like, that person's not American
4:25
or that person's not actually English, and I have to look at,
4:28
it would be like, I would explode if I didn't look up
4:31
where the person is from, right? Always right.
4:33
And I didn't do it to the point where I'll be like, that person
4:36
is not American. I think they're Irish and all
4:38
that. Yeah, I'm usually right.
4:40
That's great because I'm awful awful at it.
4:42
Like, are they Irish? Are they English?
4:44
Are they from new? Zealand, you can't even tell
4:47
Irish English. Yeah, I mean, I can't.
4:48
I can't move for the most part, but occasionally I get thrown
4:51
off. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
4:53
Well, cause you guys are crazy. I feel like even people I've met
4:56
from England, what you go 15 minutes and that one is
4:59
different. That's crazy.
5:01
I mean, Canada is like the second largest country in the
5:03
world and we all there's differences but not that crazy.
5:07
Yeah, I know because one of my friends husbands back home is
5:10
he's from like a pretty rough part of Glasgow again, 15
5:15
minutes down the road. And sometimes I'm like, what is
5:18
he? Saying just like across the
5:21
tracks. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
5:23
Oh my gosh. Yeah.
5:26
Goodness me. OK, So what brought you from
5:28
Tell Us to about your journey? Oh my gosh.
5:31
I don't even where we where we start, but I know that a pivotal
5:34
point in your life was when you lived in Australia.
5:37
Can you tell us a bit about that experience of becoming a mother
5:40
there? Yeah.
5:41
So I've been living in Vancouver.
5:44
I moved to Vancouver in 2011. I've been living here almost 10
5:49
years, um, where we went to Australia for my husband's work.
5:55
So he just finished a medical training and was going there for
6:00
his fellowship and we had this amazing opportunity to move to
6:04
Melbourne. Um, and of course it had to be
6:09
the year that COVID hit. And so that was a whole other
6:13
adventure. But yeah, we moved to Melbourne
6:16
for a year and was an amazing experience, despite it being,
6:21
you know, as, as I don't know if you heard that about Melbourne,
6:24
but had to like world world's longest lockdown, very, very
6:29
strict. But you, you just adjust your,
6:32
your perspective to where you're living, right.
6:34
And yeah, we ended up having, we left when I was pregnant.
6:39
So I had to resign from my position as an elementary school
6:42
teacher. So I had to resign,
6:46
unfortunately, to leave and plan to work out there for for the
6:50
majority of the year before I gave birth.
6:54
But then because of the lockdowns, I was only able to
6:57
work for a couple of months. So yeah, we had our baby in
6:59
Australia, in Melbourne, and it was like, I feel so fortunate
7:06
for our situation. We were, we were kind of forced
7:09
to be in this little bubble, just the three of us, just
7:11
because of the way it was. And I know COVID is very
7:14
challenging for everyone, but we just felt like the experience
7:23
was very well supported. The healthcare system there
7:26
works very well and is very efficient.
7:29
And um, yeah, I just had a great experience having her baby
7:34
there. We moved to, then moved to
7:36
Scotland when she was about four months and um, then stayed there
7:45
for a year and then we moved back to Vancouver for good.
7:49
So yeah. Wow.
7:51
What was it like to be, I mean, if we take it back to the
7:53
beginning of that part of your story and you're pregnant and
7:57
making a huge move and it doesn't sound like it, you
8:00
always knew it was going to be a short term.
8:02
This was basically a training, right?
8:03
So you need to be there for a short period of time.
8:05
But what was it like to be in that phase of kind of wanting to
8:08
like cozy and nest, like be in comfortable places that, you
8:13
know, work, that, you know kids, that, you know coworkers, and
8:17
then you're uprooted and you leave?
8:19
What was your mentality going into that?
8:22
Yeah, I very much would like go with the floor and pretty
8:27
independent person. So I think for our situation it
8:33
worked well. Um, again, I was pregnant and we
8:37
were forced to be in a lockdown. So instead of, um, you know,
8:41
having to work up until however many weeks, I was able to pretty
8:46
much relax for the majority of my pregnancy.
8:50
So I think I think it works well.
8:54
It's, it's there's a lot of unknowns when you move
8:57
internationally. I think that there 1 challenging
8:59
piece was the not knowing and like, you know, with Ed resigned
9:04
from my job and then we didn't know who you're even going to
9:07
like the flight was going to go if we were going to get there
9:09
delays and visa they had obviously their borders were
9:12
closed. So we had to apply for a special
9:14
exemption. And so things that we already
9:16
like packed up her apartment given her notice.
9:19
So it was kind of it, it was very early days in the
9:22
pregnancy, so it all felt manageable.
9:24
But um, yeah, looking back it, it's, it's a pretty wild ride.
9:30
That's yeah, that is so wild. But I love how you you've really
9:34
seen the beauty in all of it. It's like that old story around
9:36
like you can't judge if something is good or bad until
9:40
later on, right? Because you realize that like
9:43
you got to cozy in your own way and.
9:45
Yeah, totally. And like COVID was surreal for
9:48
so many people. Like we got on that plane and
9:51
there was click, it was 50 people that were allowed on the
9:54
plane. But on a huge flight that's
9:57
like, that's like 1-2, a couple every like 15 rows or something.
10:01
So, um, yeah. And then the Army comes on to
10:05
your, your, your plane. When you arrive at the other
10:08
side, you get taken to hotel quarantine for two weeks and
10:11
without a window that even opens.
10:13
And yeah, looking back on it has mantle.
10:17
I'm just glad that we didn't have kids at that point for that
10:20
experience cause yeah, stay in a hotel room for two weeks with.
10:26
No toddler with no, I just I, I think our kids are kind of still
10:32
like we became parents in similar phases and it's just I,
10:35
my hat is off. All the hats in the world that I
10:39
own are off to the parents who had any version of children or
10:44
during the pandemic, like that is it was so and you know, you
10:47
and I kind of had it. We had kids in the pandemic, but
10:49
not at that beginning stages were nothing was known.
10:52
We thought it was 2 weeks, 3 weeks, whatever, Max.
10:54
Like that's incredible. And given that your husband was
10:56
in healthcare, was he going into what?
10:58
Like where was his training? Was he going into a hospital?
11:00
Is that scary? It was a little bit.
11:05
However, there was very few cases in Australia at that
11:09
point, right? It was kind of like there was 5
11:11
cases in the whole entire country and, and, and the
11:14
government knew exactly where those cases were so.
11:16
You, you and you. Yeah, you.
11:19
They were named like in the media, yes, you really you had
11:25
to watch your step like you couldn't be breaking any rules
11:28
because you know, you'd be named and shamed.
11:30
So it felt felt very safe. So that part I'm grateful for.
11:37
It was like you moved to the UK and it was a totally different
11:40
story. We'd come with us like really
11:42
strict mindset from Australia and then you go to the UK and
11:45
it's just a free for all. So, yeah, yeah.
11:50
Yeah, and so tell me about the experience you've had two
11:54
different. I think it's really interesting
11:55
part of your story as well is that you've had two different
11:58
postpartum periods and two really different postpartum
12:00
experiences. They're always going to be
12:02
different. But with you, you were in two
12:04
different countries for both of your kids for two different
12:06
postpartum experiences. Tell me, what was it like in
12:09
Australia? Like what was the and, and it
12:11
was also pandemic, I know, but what was the community like?
12:14
What was the postpartum support like?
12:16
Or even just the, you know, giving birth.
12:17
Like what was what was that experience like?
12:20
Yeah, it was so straight away when after your discharge from
12:25
the hospital, we had your maternal health nurse and they
12:31
came to visit us six week, 6 times in the first week.
12:36
No. Yeah, 6.
12:38
Times the 1st. Time in the first week, yeah.
12:41
And so like every single day you're getting less support with
12:43
feeding and like any questions you have like chickens.
12:49
Um, and you know, that was my first experience.
12:52
So that's kind of, I was like, Oh, this is great.
12:54
Like you've got a lot of support and then at the six week mark,
12:58
you're when kind of the visits start to die down a little bit
13:02
and you get put into, they basically set up this group
13:06
where you're, you're meet with other moms who've had babies
13:10
around the same month or month or so and, and you meet for six
13:15
weeks. So straight away you're, you're,
13:18
you're meeting other moms who have babies the same age, have
13:21
similar concerns, similar issues, and you were just able
13:27
to build connections. And for me, not knowing anyone,
13:30
um, or knowing very few people in Melbourne like that was a
13:35
game changer. And so I feel very fortunate for
13:40
that experience. So there was also like a lot of
13:43
community groups and activities and that kind of thing.
13:46
So I was like very active from the get go, which I think made a
13:52
big difference. It's also like the phase of was
13:55
in my life as well. We were kind of adventuring.
13:58
And so, and when you're tag teaming with your partner, I
14:01
don't know if this is just the difference between 1st and 2nd
14:04
kid, but when you're texting was a partner, you kind of have
14:06
these little breaks, right with one kid and you can still kind
14:10
of do things that you need. And I found second time I had my
14:18
second baby in in Vancouver and it was just a a very different
14:22
experience. Yeah.
14:24
And I have to ask before we get into the Vancouver experience,
14:26
you can trust it was that the public.
14:28
So I think there's public and private, but that was the public
14:30
system. Like the public system allowed
14:33
you to have that nurse coming by, they put you into a group
14:37
and was it a group with other first time moms or kind of mixed
14:40
bag? Yeah, it was another first time
14:42
moms and there was one mom who it was her second child, but
14:47
it's been a while. And so the the the nurse had
14:51
kind of said, yeah, come and join this group because she
14:54
doesn't really have community herself.
14:57
So yeah, it was all brand new moms.
14:59
That's OK, That's really cool too.
15:01
Because there is a difference, right?
15:02
Like you don't really want to be in a group with half the people
15:05
are kind of like, oh, just you wait or, or trying to kind of
15:09
teach, you know, you want to be experiencing it together.
15:12
Yeah. So cool.
15:15
OK. And then you guys, so you went
15:18
to Scotland, how lovely. You have to spend time, sure
15:20
lots of time with family and friends and then came back to
15:23
Vancouver where you were picking your lives back up with a baby
15:29
though. So you're left with.
15:31
That baby, yeah. So my husband got a job here and
15:36
then it was always our plan to move back.
15:38
Like, I've very much food Vancouver as my home now.
15:41
And he was brought up in the Lower Mainland himself.
15:45
So like, it was always our plan. And I was just kind of like, I
15:50
had a toddler and we were planning to get pregnant again.
15:55
So I ended up staying off and yeah, we rented for about he
16:00
started working out like a ton and then we were just kind of
16:04
trying to find her way. I was debating whether to when
16:08
was the right time to go back to work.
16:10
And I think the one issue is the childcare, right?
16:13
You have to have your name on your list or, or be like paying
16:16
for a nanny. And so for our situation or and
16:20
our family priorities at that time and like we just decided
16:23
for me to stay home until while we had our our, our second baby.
16:29
So yeah. Oh my goodness.
16:32
Can I ask you about having being the partner of someone in a
16:36
demanding job? Like someone who's a physician?
16:39
I assume if he was going to do his training, he's coming back.
16:43
That sounds like it's probably like some of the busiest times
16:46
of a medical career or, or it's just, yeah, if there's a lot
16:52
going on. Yeah, there's a lot going on.
16:55
I mean, there's always a lot going on.
16:57
I think there probably always will be.
17:00
It's kind of it's challenging as a partner and in that kind of
17:07
situation because like he wouldn't be able to do what he
17:12
does without me. But then you're also kind of not
17:17
forced into this role because it's our our choice.
17:20
Like I can go back to work completely, but because of, you
17:25
know, the logistics with childcare and our family
17:28
priorities, like it just makes sense for me to be home for at
17:34
at this, at this point, especially when your kids are so
17:37
young and you know, it's like more than a full time job in
17:42
itself, so. Yeah, I like how you, how you've
17:45
been using the word priorities, like our family priorities and
17:48
how you're not just like I love just even the way that you're,
17:52
you're not justifying anything. You're just, you're stating a
17:55
fact. And I think that I need to call
17:57
that out because so many mothers, parents, we I did it
18:01
this weekend. I we were at a birthday party
18:04
and a family or one of the families there said that we go
18:07
to daycare, our kids go to daycare together or our older
18:10
kids who are in preschool. And they said, oh, addies in in
18:15
half day. She she only in half day.
18:17
And I was like, Oh yeah, yeah, she is.
18:19
Then I freaking launch into this like whole explanation as to why
18:24
she's in half day and how we have a nanny and why we have a
18:27
nanny and like trying to justify why it's not a bougie decision,
18:31
but it's really based on our family priorities and where
18:33
we're at. I'm I'm lucky I didn't actually
18:36
get into like the five years ago details of my husband's health
18:39
history. Like that's happened before.
18:41
And I end up in this spiral and I'm like, shut up, stop talking.
18:46
And you know, and like I am so in this, you and I are both so
18:51
in this space. And I can still personally find
18:53
myself wrapped up in the justifications in the over
18:56
explaining. But really what I loved about
19:00
just our 10 minutes so far together is you were like, yeah,
19:03
based on our family priorities, this is the decision that we've
19:06
made. And it just sounded so normal.
19:09
It didn't sound like you're on a high horse.
19:12
It didn't sound like you were saying other people need to make
19:15
the same decision. Like it just felt really natural
19:19
and I just, I want to take that on myself.
19:21
Yeah, it's it's hard though, because it's a bit of a mindset
19:24
shift because you feel like you do feel like you've got
19:28
suggested by yourself and you you can't win either way.
19:30
You can't win if you're a working parent and your kid
19:32
isn't childcare and you can have when, if you're a stay at home
19:35
mum and um, like that, that's the kind of dynamic that I would
19:41
love to try and, and shift because, um, it does.
19:47
You are a team, um, like you're and your partner.
19:50
Everyone's situation is different and you know, you, you
19:54
get a bad Rep if you have your child in childcare and you get a
19:58
bad Rep if you're a stay at home mom, like as if you're sitting
20:01
on your butt doing nothing, which is not the case.
20:05
So. No.
20:06
Or if like, you know, if somebody came from really old
20:10
money family and neither of them worked and they still had a
20:14
childcare or nanny daycare, whatever.
20:17
And then they have to feel like they but why does anybody have
20:20
to justify their situation? You know, it's it's it's a
20:23
decision that you make based on what's right for you and your
20:25
family. And like Mel Robbins says, let
20:27
them. Yeah, exactly.
20:29
I love it. OK.
20:32
So if we keep keep going in the journey you're Vancouver
20:36
experience. So you had your second in
20:38
Vancouver and it was out of the pandemic at this point.
20:42
Yeah, yeah. Summer 2023.
20:46
Yeah. So almost two years ago.
20:47
Yeah, I was trying to do or I almost failed our Nexus
20:51
interview the other day because I gave my son who's your your
20:55
youngest, same age, gave the wrong date.
20:58
Yeah, he was pretty sure. I was like, yes.
21:02
And he's like, Are you sure that's the that's the year?
21:04
I was like, well, no, that is not the year.
21:09
Can I still have the Nexus, please?
21:12
OK, Anyways, 2023, we're well on the pan, but that might at this
21:15
point. And so you would think that that
21:18
would have been the MATLAB experience that you hoped and
21:21
dreamed for that was on Pinterest.
21:22
What was your experience like? Yeah, it was just a bit
21:26
underwhelming to be honest. Like, I don't know if we just
21:30
were spoilt with the experience that we had in Australia or if
21:32
it was just the situation and I was in, but I just phoned after
21:37
the discharge from a hospital that the checkups were, um, you
21:46
know, pre basic and, and part of that is probably being a second
21:52
time mom and you know, you've got other things you do and it's
21:56
just like, yeah, just I've got to get to this point and then go
21:58
home and deal with my rowdy toddler at home.
22:01
But, um, and a part of it was maybe our situation with being
22:06
like more settled and, um, the role that I was in at the time,
22:13
but um, yeah, there was like a bit of a disconnect for me was
22:17
like even getting our follow up appointment with midwives.
22:21
And so I kind of fell through the cracks that way.
22:24
Eventually kind of got seen and then you have your weekly check
22:27
UPS or whatever. Um, and then at the six week
22:31
work, I, I had a, I like to see section.
22:33
So we had our six week check up with OB.
22:38
Of course I had an infection, didn't even know about it.
22:42
My gosh. Yeah, I don't know, like whether
22:48
that's why I find with here is it's up to you to really declare
22:54
and advocate for yourself. And I obviously was like an
22:57
overwhelmed postpartum mom who's dealing with like a toddler at
23:01
the same time and wasn't even checking and like wasn't being
23:06
checked. So, um, figured that out.
23:08
And then it's just after the six week mark, that's it.
23:12
And, and for any sort of, and I know there are some places in
23:17
Vancouver, there's some great drop, drop in groups and there's
23:19
some virtual groups. I didn't access them or wasn't
23:26
aware of them at the time. And so yeah, it kind of just
23:32
failing to like after you're discharged at the six week mark
23:36
and then you carry on with life. And obviously it's not, you
23:41
don't pass six weeks and everything is fine and you're
23:44
healed and you can now go on with motherhood all happy.
23:51
And yeah, it, it just found that that period was, was quite
23:56
challenging, whether it was due to having like the jump from
24:03
1:00 to 2:00, I found way harder from zero to 1.
24:06
Um, I just feel like building a community would have been like
24:13
helpful and I have friends and I had friends who had kids, but I
24:20
don't know. It just would have been nice to
24:21
have something where you can connect with other people who
24:24
are in the exact same situation as you, you know?
24:27
Totally. I'm sorry that that was your
24:29
experience and that makes me feel sad for two years ago,
24:33
Gemma, who was like the fact that you felt that you were the
24:38
words fell through the cracks like no postpartum parent should
24:44
ever fall through the cracks. Like to me that's it's
24:48
inexcusable. And I know you're probably about
24:50
to say, oh, you know, I was supposed to maybe.
24:52
No, like they should no new parent, no birthing parent
24:56
should be expected to be hounding the clinic or calling
25:01
or remembering to do this. You're supposed to be like doing
25:03
a birth certificate thing. It's like it's ridiculous the
25:06
amount of administration that you're expected to do in those
25:09
early days when you're like, I can't even see straight, let
25:14
alone how do you Oh, OK, now the clinics on lunch got a call
25:18
speculator like. Yeah, yeah.
25:21
And you're just giving a whole bunch of Flyers from the
25:23
hospital, like here's all the information.
25:25
Like I'm like my daughter's. Colouring on it, I don't know.
25:28
Yeah, the older one, I'm like here, like entertain yourself.
25:31
That's so. That's too bad, you know.
25:33
Yeah, but I mean, to be fair, like my situation, but I, I feel
25:38
in the grand scheme of things wasn't that bad.
25:40
Like I didn't have a traumatic birth, I didn't have any like
25:45
serious physical stuff going on afterwards apart from the
25:49
infection. Parts from an infection.
25:51
At all. Yeah, Well, I know, right?
25:55
No, no, that's what that's what we do, right.
25:57
And yeah, I feel like there's people out there, I imagine that
26:02
have way more challenging times than experiences than I did.
26:06
And that's where I felt like if if I've had this experience and
26:11
it wasn't that bad, like things need to be a little bit better.
26:15
Yeah, absolutely. And I can.
26:17
I'm thinking about how you were assigned a mother group in
26:22
Melbourne and I think that there's something so interesting
26:25
about. I'm sure you could opt out.
26:27
I'm sure they're not forcing you to.
26:29
Go. But the fact that you are, it is
26:32
kind of a given. It's like something that you
26:34
could opt out of versus opting in.
26:36
I think that's the move. I think that's, that's like
26:40
that's where the money is. Because I'm, I was actually just
26:42
even thinking about like relating it to 1st year
26:44
university. I don't know if you went to
26:46
college, university, if anyone listening is kind of kind of
26:49
resonate with this. But if you go to university, big
26:53
new school. Like I went from a school of 600
26:55
girls from kindergarten to grade 12.
26:57
And now I'm in the school of a massive, massive Canadian
27:01
university and you're like, whoa.
27:04
But they do such a good job. Like my school, I went to
27:07
Western. They did such an unreal job of
27:09
creating communities for you in so many ways so fast.
27:13
You were opted into a community within the floor that you lived
27:16
on. You were opted into the
27:17
community of your department or faculty that you were in and you
27:21
were given shirts and you were like, this is your team.
27:23
These are your people. And like, come on, no 18 year
27:27
old is going to opt into that. But sure, they might be able to
27:30
opt out. So, so put them in
27:31
automatically. Like it's like the mothering
27:34
group, like put up, put them in automatically.
27:36
So it doesn't feel like this thing that's like, oh, should I
27:39
do it? Do I know anyone who's doing it?
27:40
Is this a cool thing to do? Because we all still do that.
27:42
We might be adults, but we still do.
27:43
That right? I really need this.
27:45
Yeah, like, oh, they're going to be like weirdos.
27:48
I don't know, like we're kind of all we have funny sides to us.
27:51
Yeah, I know. I know myself.
27:53
I would like, oh, do I need this?
27:55
Like, it's one more thing, but if I was opted into it, I'd have
27:57
been like, yeah, it's easier to just like go than opt out.
28:00
And I'm sure I would have found a ton of value in that.
28:02
So there's something, there's something there, wouldn't you
28:05
say? Yeah, I think so.
28:08
And you know, that comes from a higher up level, right?
28:12
Like the healthcare system, a government like that's, that's
28:17
the part that I feel like is missing, really missing here.
28:20
Yeah. And so that it sounds like that
28:22
has inspired the mother flock, which is a community that you
28:27
are building and doing such wonderful things.
28:29
Let's tell us a bit about the inspiration.
28:31
It sounds like we've heard the inspiration, but tell us more
28:34
about how this idea came to be. Yeah, it just been sitting with
28:38
me for a while. Like it, it blows my mind that
28:40
this doesn't exist here. Like how does it not exist?
28:43
And I was kind of in that, um, face postpartum, whereas needing
28:50
something like I was at home with the kids.
28:53
My oldest had just started daycare and I was still home
28:55
with the youngest. Um, and I was starting to lose
28:59
my mind a little bit. Like I needed like a passion
29:01
project or like, um, like a new hobby or something to throw my
29:06
energy into that wasn't just the kids, that whole kind of process
29:13
of a mattress and like losing your identity and not sure where
29:17
you're going. Um, I just felt like I, I needed
29:20
something and I'd started listening to some podcasts and
29:24
reading some books and um, and then there is, I'm turning 40
29:31
this year. And then there was another
29:33
moment where I was attending my is my husband's, um, is
29:42
grandfather's funeral and it's for his this is kind of going
29:46
off a little bit, but no, go on got him as a wedding present,
29:51
like family tree scrap. And so there's a whole bunch of
29:54
family in town and I was trying to get them to like write their
29:58
little sections of this family tree, like about their life and
30:02
what's their story and kind of thing.
30:03
And I was, I was just sitting there thinking like, what would
30:06
I write? Like, I don't know, like what I
30:10
would write about myself, Like, what is my legacy?
30:13
And like, you know, I've always worked in like, helping
30:16
professions and being a teacher and I worked in mental health.
30:19
But so I've been making a difference.
30:21
But it just felt like this isn't just it.
30:24
And that idea had been sticking in my head a little bit.
30:27
And then? And what idea in particular was
30:30
really? I think just just the the lack
30:34
of postpartum support and community forum.
30:36
So like building some sort of community and resource for new
30:43
moms in Vancouver. And where was I going with that?
30:48
Forgot now. Oh, I'm sorry.
30:49
No, no, no, no. Sorry, OK, The family tree the.
30:53
Like the family tree and and there was one podcast.
30:55
Yes, thank you. There is one podcast, I think, I
30:58
can't remember what it was, but it was along the lines of if you
31:02
have an idea that you would be, you know, frustrated at yourself
31:06
if someone else came out with it before you or did took action on
31:10
it before you. Great question.
31:12
That is your saying that you need to start taking action.
31:15
And I was like, you know, I'm just going to do it.
31:19
And so that's kind of where the mother Folk came from and the
31:23
idea for the for the mother Folk.
31:24
And yeah, we've just kind of launched it over the last month
31:29
or two. And yeah, we've got a group
31:32
going starting in or is running right now and out of Trouble
31:37
Lake and our website is up and running.
31:41
And so it's been a really great and creative outlet for me.
31:44
One of the books I, I I read in the in this whole kind of trying
31:52
to figure out like my direction and purpose and that kind of
31:55
thing was forget the exact total, but it's about feeding
31:59
your Unicorn space by Eve Rodsky And and this is kind of been
32:04
like my Unicorn space, like a little passion project that like
32:09
has purpose and meaning and is like a creative outlet for me.
32:12
So. Yeah, I love it.
32:14
I think it's so beautiful and I'd encourage you to get rid of
32:17
that little, the, the word little from there, because I
32:21
think it's beautiful. And, and whether it stays within
32:25
Vancouver or it goes worldwide, you know, the, the difference
32:29
that it can make to even one person who comes to one of your
32:32
groups and feel seen and heard and understood by their moms and
32:36
is really able to normalize the challenges amongst, you know, a
32:39
community that's not, that's not little.
32:42
So, yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
32:44
Thank you for that. Of course.
32:48
Tell me for those who are listening, who are, you know, we
32:51
hear the word mattresses and it's, it's, I don't know, it
32:54
seems like it's a, it's a newer vernacular, like it's a word
32:57
that's been around forever, but it's newer in our vernacular.
33:00
How would you define mattresses? Yeah, I think it's just the it's
33:07
just the shift that happens during motherhood, the the
33:11
developmental change that is physical, hormonal, emotional,
33:18
social. There's such a, such a mix of
33:23
things, dynamics going on during that period and um, I think
33:29
every mother goes through it, um, but to varying degrees.
33:34
So for example, and for, to varying degrees for different
33:37
births as well. So like I found that my
33:41
mattresses for my breast, pregnancy or first child, um,
33:48
was relatively smooth and easy. However, I don't feel like
33:52
things changed as drastically for me in that time.
33:55
I say I can press pregnancy. I feel like my metro essence has
34:00
been a lot more challenging to work through and is still
34:06
ongoing and it's kind of like adolescence, right?
34:10
We give that, um, we give that time for teenagers to like go
34:14
through all these shifts, the same physical, hormonal, social,
34:17
emotional and it. We give them years, we educate
34:20
them on it, and then what do we give mothers to go through this
34:26
period of time? It's not six weeks.
34:28
It's. 6 to 8 weeks, yeah, two weeks depending on vaginal or.
34:34
Really, it's not even a year, right?
34:37
Like it can take, it can take years to move through this, um,
34:43
identity change. And when you come out the other
34:45
side, you, your values are different, your perspective is
34:48
different. And, um, I think once I heard
34:51
that term it, it really, um, it lifted a big weight off my
34:57
shoulders. Like I'm like, oh, this makes
34:59
sense. This is what I'm struggling
35:01
with. So yeah.
35:03
Yeah, it's like it's validating that you are changed and that
35:07
you're not supposed to. You know, I was even filming
35:10
some content this morning and I had a friend helping me and she
35:13
was asking me some questions. And she was like, what?
35:15
What advice would you give someone who's to a mom who's
35:18
feeling like they want to find themselves again?
35:21
And the way that it was kind of phrased was as if you're you're
35:24
searching for who you were, like, through this, like tall
35:28
field of grass or like a corn maze, and you're like, searching
35:31
and searching for where she is. Yeah, she's not there.
35:35
And that like, she's you like the like, deep down your soul,
35:39
who you are. I'm getting deep here.
35:40
But it's like you're still there, but she is no longer
35:44
there because she's this like, even more badass version, you
35:50
know, like she's in a different field because she's like, she's
35:53
doing even bigger and better things.
35:55
She's got even more love in her heart.
35:57
You know, it's like, yeah, but like you gotta, you gotta suck
35:59
the way from that, like the old corn maze and like, yeah, find
36:02
somewhere else. You haven't lost herself, right?
36:05
It's like this is who you're meant to be.
36:07
You just trying to figure. That out, yeah.
36:10
And it's like, it would, it would be like saying to those
36:11
people like, yeah, put your like, put your kids.
36:16
If you were going to find yourself, that would mean that
36:18
your kids weren't there and no mother.
36:23
There's maybe, but really no mother is like, Oh yeah, I would
36:27
rather find my old self and not have these children that I have
36:31
known. Right?
36:32
Like it doesn't make sense but. It doesn't exist.
36:35
It doesn't exist, but that's OK. But we all feel it, no matter if
36:38
you know. Those are not easier said than
36:39
done. Yes, absolutely.
36:41
For sure, for sure. And and what would you say to
36:45
somebody who's who is themselves like just navigating that?
36:49
What is my purpose? Where are my where am I headed?
36:52
Like you, you started to follow a breadcrumb trail.
36:55
How did you know that that was the breadcrumb trail to start to
36:59
explore and follow. That's a good question.
37:04
I think the the, I mean, the first thing was like educating
37:08
myself and even learning about this world.
37:10
I didn't know about mattresses or hadn't heard the term until
37:16
like 9-10 months into my second child like hadn't heard about it
37:23
my first pregnancy. So I think that's probably the
37:24
first thing is like just learning that this exists.
37:28
This is a thing of validate anger experience and that in
37:31
itself will gives you that self compassion to give yourself time
37:38
and understanding. Because when expectations don't
37:44
meet reality, I think that's where we kind of get into the
37:48
whole mum girl and the resentment and questioning
37:53
yourself and the mum rage. So I think that's the first two
38:00
things is the, the education and then and then the compassion.
38:04
And then it's just taking time and whether that's, you know,
38:08
trying to find your way or just, um, like finding a new passion
38:15
or just valuing the new skills that you are, are and
38:20
experiences that you're having with your children.
38:22
And yeah, I think that's that's it, yeah.
38:26
I love that. I'll add to it I would say.
38:28
No, Yeah, go for it. A notebook or an or even a
38:31
sticky note in your phone. What are they called?
38:33
The Notes app or, or whatever type of phone you use.
38:35
Yeah. And just starting to write
38:37
things down because it's true. Like once you start to explore
38:39
this, everybody will come at a book like the book you were
38:43
describing. So everybody will read that and
38:46
take something different away from it.
38:48
And it will prompt something in their mind, like you might read
38:50
it and be like, how is everybody not getting all fired up about
38:53
my trust and what's next and finding your Unicorn space and
38:57
like helping like you're like, it's so obvious that this is it,
39:01
but that's obvious for you. I would read it and I might take
39:04
something completely different about about, you know, something
39:06
related to the podcast or whatever it is.
39:08
And so like making note of what those things are.
39:11
I always say to people, what are you Google?
39:12
What do you always like researching and talking about
39:15
Googling and like, what's this stuff that's always in your
39:17
mind, kind of like twinkling around in there that you can't
39:20
get out of your head? I'm talking about it as well
39:23
because I think that like I'm not a big talker or shader
39:28
naturally, which is something I'm trying to change but.
39:31
I think look at you in a podcast.
39:33
Well, at all this is, this is a big deal, right?
39:36
So yeah, I think sharing these experiences is helpful both for
39:41
yourself, but for other people because I found so many other
39:45
mums and friends be so come to me to be like, I also felt the
39:49
same way. Like I've also had these
39:52
struggles, I've also had had postpartum depression or have
39:57
also had extreme mum rage and I'm like, I had no idea.
40:03
So I think I think that's helpful both for and therapeutic
40:07
for yourself, but also for for other moms and for new moms as
40:11
well so that they can start to hear stories.
40:15
Because I think you have these expectations and your plan for,
40:17
for, for your pregnancy and your birth, but you don't think about
40:20
the aftermath so much. And, and, and I think if we're
40:25
parents shared the challenges and wins as well, I think that
40:32
would help everyone. And I think you're so right.
40:36
I think about the times I've been in the, you know, mother
40:39
spaces and you're going around and you're kind of sharing.
40:42
And as somebody who does share a lot and does talk a lot and has
40:46
been in theatre and perhaps a bit different from you, maybe I
40:51
should take myself out of this equation.
40:53
But, you know, there's the people who, you know, you know,
40:55
raise their hand or want to share and you can tell that they
40:58
feel this is not me, but they feel kind of uncomfortable
41:00
sharing their voice, perhaps. And then they say the thing and
41:04
it just lands and you're like, how could you have been?
41:07
You know, it's so like, I always feel so thankful when those
41:10
people share because they just have such wisdom to share.
41:12
But they're like, oh, but I'm, you know, I'm taking up air
41:14
time. I'm taking up space here.
41:16
But you also have to remember that by you sharing what's on
41:20
your mind, like you're probably alleviating these three other
41:23
people and those were in that room's brains and being like
41:26
you're making them feel seen and heard.
41:28
So it's not that you're taking up airtime, is that you're
41:30
sharing like you're actually giving a gift.
41:32
To absolutely. And that's something, something
41:35
we have on our website is a page called, which I feel quite
41:38
passionate about is a page called retracements tails and,
41:41
and basically encouraging people to share their, their birth
41:45
story, but also their journey towards motherhood and how their
41:47
identity has shifted. And, and I think that's it's not
41:50
necessarily like it's therapeutic for you to be able
41:53
to Share your story, but like this is a gift that you're
41:56
giving other people by being able to read that story.
41:59
Oh my gosh, I think it's such a gift.
42:01
I always joke that like I'm a career coach for parents, but
42:04
like, if you will allow me the honor of hearing your birth
42:07
story, like I am all ears. Yeah, I know totally.
42:10
Because, I mean, you don't tend to share it that much, but like
42:13
when you do hear, I'm also like really curious.
42:16
And when you do hear other people's experiences and it
42:19
might be completely different from yours, it's, it's, it's
42:22
just nice to know that someone else has also had a similar or
42:28
different experience and, and it validates all of it.
42:31
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
42:33
Where do you see the mother flock going?
42:35
Currently? It is going to be in Group, in
42:39
person group programs here like you know, here in the Lower
42:42
Mainland, Trout Lake specifically over the month of
42:45
April and May at 2025. But where do you see it going?
42:50
Put it out there in the world. That's, I'm kind of testing the
42:55
water and just kind of seeing how things go.
42:57
But um, yeah, I, I would love to keep running the group.
43:00
Eventually I'd love to, you know, branch out to other areas.
43:06
We have a whole bunch of amazing guest speakers in postpartum
43:11
specialists coming to share their wisdom with your mom.
43:15
So, um, it would be able to, it would be, I think, just think
43:20
it's an amazing opportunity. So being able to, to, to grow
43:23
that group and make it more widely available would be
43:26
amazing and also just grow the community of Vancouver.
43:29
I'd love it. We're taking a break for this
43:31
summer for the group and then coming back in September, but
43:36
I'd love during the summer to be able to, you know, Belfour
43:39
community and host more events and go to the website and and
43:44
yeah, just see where it goes from there.
43:46
Ah, Congrats. It's so huge.
43:47
I think it's beautiful. I could see you partnering with
43:50
the government and having the mother flock.
43:53
I don't know, let's put it out there and you, you're the
43:57
perfect person for that. Oh my goodness, you're such a
44:00
wonderful human and I'm so pleased to be in your space here
44:04
and just to support you in any way I can to grow the mother
44:07
flock in the community because I think it's so needed and it
44:11
makes me want to have more babies.
44:12
But like. You're not, you know.
44:13
Yeah, yeah. Everybody find you Gemma and
44:18
connect with you. They were on the Instagram so
44:23
that dot mother fuck, you can follow us there all our updates
44:26
and our websites and the motherfuck.com and we have a an
44:32
e-mail newsletter quote every couple of weeks so you can sign
44:35
up to their via the website. Amazing.
44:37
And if someone is not local, which we have lots of non
44:39
Vancouver people who are listening, what can they?
44:43
What can they get for you from you?
44:44
Yeah, I think we have a whole bunch of resources on our
44:47
website that are not necessarily related to Vancouver as well.
44:51
Space and resources and tips and how to prepare for postpartum
44:55
and finger Unicorn space and as well as reading our Mistress
44:59
wants tails. So this is definitely a lot of
45:01
resources on there. And then just advice on seeking
45:03
your own community as well. Wherever you are and can people
45:08
submit their mattresses sales? Yeah, absolutely.
45:11
With yeah, yeah, yeah. So if you go on the page,
45:13
there's like a little like if you want to submit kind of
45:15
thing, here's where to go. Yeah, Tell Gemma that you heard
45:19
about her on the All Figured Out podcast, so.
45:21
Yeah. Back to see who doesn't.
45:23
Help. Yeah, yeah.
45:25
Well, thank you so much. Oh my goodness, I almost forgot.
45:28
I've been forgetting this recently, but I asked every
45:30
guest what is something that you're still trying to figure
45:33
out? Goodness.
45:36
I was like always the reaction is always like the exhale with
45:39
the. OHS everything.
45:44
I think for me it's like the the and being and having young kids.
45:49
I think it's the the balance between like my identity, my
45:55
interests, my mental health and and prioritize my family and
46:01
also just being present. I find like the overwhelm and
46:07
like I could get quite stressed out sometime.
46:09
And so I'm really trying to change my mindset and like enjoy
46:11
the moments, go over the floor. It doesn't matter if they they
46:15
don't get their dinner at 5:00, that kind of thing.
46:17
So those are some things that I'm trying to figure out.
46:21
None of us know what we're doing.
46:22
Um, so yeah. All of them.
46:26
I love that. Can I ask you one more question
46:27
that's coming to mind is you and I both have kids who are past
46:32
that, like, baby bubble. We're not really in the baby
46:36
bubble anymore. What's your opinion on the power
46:38
of community as kids get older? And how can we can prioritize
46:42
that when life gets just busier and you kind of forget about
46:45
your own mattresses and you forget about all that stuff?
46:49
You know, like, I'm not going to moms groups unless I'm Speaking
46:52
of them. Like, yeah.
46:53
What do you think? Well, I think it's hard, it's
46:56
challenging because I think like, yeah, you have this little
46:59
window when the kids you're, you have babies and you can maybe
47:03
branch out and go to these trips and then things get busier.
47:06
Your friends end up being your kids friends your your kids
47:11
friends parents. Um, yeah, I think you still have
47:16
to, um, challenge yourself to put yourself out there, whatever
47:20
stage you're at and make connections and be the connector
47:24
among the people that you know as well.
47:26
So, um, you know, there's still still equally as important and
47:32
valuable whatever stage of parenthood you're at, because
47:35
it's all, it's all tough, right? It's all hard, Yeah.
47:39
Just in different ways, Definitely, yeah.
47:41
Yeah, and I like that. I like that call to action for
47:44
anybody listening who feels like it's missing in their area and
47:48
they, you know, maybe they're past the baby bubble or they're
47:50
in the baby bubble or they're not in Vancouver to even maybe
47:54
in a small way like how can you create, how can you build that
47:57
bridge for people? Put three people together.
47:59
Yeah, take two friends who were both on parental leave who don't
48:03
know each other, and let's go for let's go to the zoo or go
48:06
for coffee or whatever like that.
48:08
That's part of like, that's it. Yeah.
48:10
That's building community, right?
48:11
Yeah. And that's, that's the first
48:13
step. So that's what it takes to start
48:15
building your your community and your village.
48:17
Yeah. Maybe you'll franchise.
48:19
You're the mother fuck. I don't know why I'm feeling.
48:22
I'm feeling so pumped about this.
48:23
Business. I love it.
48:24
I love it. Thank you so much, Jenna, Jenna,
48:28
Jenna. Thanks.
48:31
Andrea, you got me there. I'll just see you again soon.
48:38
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
48:40
I love it. Thank you so much for listening
48:44
and since you made it this far, please share this episode with a
48:47
fellow parent who you love, respect, and want to support.
48:52
And while you're at it, hit me up on Instagram at All Figured
48:55
Out. Andrea, I would love to meet you
48:57
and hear what you are trying to figure out these days.