Latest / Roast the Post Podcast / Operations: Binary Bogeymen with The Strategic Linguist

Transcript

Operations: Binary Bogeymen with The Strategic Linguist · Roast the Post Podcast

• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Paul and I could not be more excited about today's special guest.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: While she needs no introduction, I'm gonna do one anyway.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: The
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: Strategic Linguist, known by some as Rebecca, is wickedly smart, hilarious, a
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: Simpsons
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: aficionado with an exceptional meme game, knows that language is never neutral and
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: is
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: passionate about making sure we know it too.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Rebecca was actually one of the very first people I subscribed to when I joined
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: Substack.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: The first post of hers I ever liked was her second.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: Called "Why Perfect English Shouldn't Be a Burden Only for Non-Native Speakers", and
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: that was published June 28th, 2025, four days after I joined Substack.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I know.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: going back through Rebecca's archives was wild because some of those early posts
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: have like two or three likes, two or three.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: So to me, it's like finding footage of your favourite band playing to 12 people in a
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: bar before they got big.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: I can say that I liked the Strategic Linguist when she was still the Product
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Linguist.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: So do yourself a huge favour and go check out the Strategic Linguist on Substack
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: because once you start reading Rebecca's work, you will never see or hear language.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: same way again, which is exactly why we needed to have her on the show.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: If there's one place where language does a whole lot of work, it's a job posting.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: Rebecca, welcome to Roast the Post.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: A lovely introduction.
• 1:36
  I'm so
• 1:36
  happy to be here.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: I am.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I remember those days when like nobody liked any of my posts and I was like,
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: what am I doing?
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: Why am I doing this?
• 1:47
  Yeah.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: I feel the pain.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: I know the pain.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you guys for having me.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: Job descriptions upset me immensely.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: So let's get to it.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: Us too.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know...
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: You've got a whole series based on it.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm very excited to see what you have for us.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just going to tell you a little bit about what we're going to be roasting
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: today.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: this week on Roast the Post, the stakes are high.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: this week on Roast the Post, the stakes are high.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: The threats are real, the mission is critical, the adversaries are
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: everywhere.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I really can't tell you much more except that the right person for this role
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: will need
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: nerves of steel, an unwavering commitment to the mission, and the ability to
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: operate when
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: failure is simply not an option.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: but also they're moving offices.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: So if you could get three quotes from movers by Friday, that would be great.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: So your mission, Rebecca and Paul, should you choose to accept it, is to roast the
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: post.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: You ready?
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: Gulp.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: ready.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: Let's do the Roasty Profile for this one.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Let's do the Roasty Profile for this one.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Let's do the Roasty Profile for this one.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: The job title is "operations."
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: The report-to title is unknown.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: The company's size is 11 to 50 employees, industry?
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Technology, information, and
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: internet.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: What do they do?
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: They build autonomous AI agents for U.S.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: national security and law enforcement operations.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: Head office location, Washington, D.C., job location, Washington, D.C., geographical
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: operating area, the United States of America, and the job is full-time.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: So that's your Roasty Profile.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Got it?
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: We're scared.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: A note before I begin, keep in mind that 1) Paul and Rebecca have not seen this
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: job ad in advance.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: And 2) the host, that's me this week, reads the job ad verbatim, run-on
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: sentences, typos, and grammar issues included.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: The only thing we edit out is company name and any other extremely identifying
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: factors.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm telling you this because this job ad, it's really hard to read out loud.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: I love this, okay.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: so you'll see.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: So what we're gonna do is go through section by section.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna pause, have our say, and then do a bit of writing.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: About the company.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: Our national security apparatus was designed for an adversary that congregated and
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: operate in the physical world.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: The threats disrupting our way of life today have gone faceless, borderless, and
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: beyond the reach of any human operator.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: We build the autonomous agents that reach them, unmask them, and stop them before a
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: life can be lost, a household can be bankrupted, innocence can be stolen, or our
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: can be nation subverted.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: In 12 months, we've gone from founding to live operational tasking and pilots across
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: multiple national security and law enforcement partners.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: We've proven it works.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: This role makes it permanent.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: We've raised $20 million to date from Redacted, Redacted, Redacted, and others.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just gonna stop there.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's a short part.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna stop because I feel like we might have a lot to say about it.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: and
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, if you're up for it, Rebecca, if you have some initial thoughts on that
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: first part of the job ad, give'r.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: Ah f*ck it, I don't care.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm quite vocal about...
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: At I think I am.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: In my head, I'm screaming it.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think it comes across to everyone else maybe, but I'm quite vocal about the
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: narrative that's being driven around this like AI stuff that's happening.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: So fear sells really well.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: And we know this, this isn't something that I need to validate with research or
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_02: anything, but that sounds pretty f*cking scary to me of like, if you want to be
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: part of like the scary, scary stuff that's happening with AI, like you get to be at
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: the front of it.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: And it's that to me,
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: I think we all saw it in the chat of like, what the f*ck?
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: That's scary.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what are you doing?
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like, because it spoke in threes.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: It also made me feel like it was written by AI, but I don't want to be that person
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: quite yet.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: but it did make me feel that I was like, you're on the AI fear narrative train.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so you're reaching for the kind of person that likes that kind of narrative as
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: well is what I was getting from that very brief one.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is just the about the company.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: This, the
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: whole job ad is very short.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I debated whether or not I wanted to bring this one to you because like we we
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: need to leverage your expertise and like why not have a big long one?
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's more about what goes unsaid, Jen.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: But this is it.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: This is it.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: Paul, thoughts?
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: This is this is very, very much FUD, very much FUD marketing, right?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: Fear, uncertainty, and doubt.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're using very intentional language choices to describe the
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: mission of
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: the organization with the mindset that people will filter in, like they'll select in
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: for, they'll choose because they want to be a part of protecting, you know, us from
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: the big bad unknown baddies,
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: them.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: but they're not really talking about
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: who "they" are in detail.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: They're just like waving this wand and creating this mysterious like picture of
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: there are people in the shadows and we want to protect you from them.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: it's very, very classical FUD marketing is what it is.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, organizations that do this.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: fear, what and what?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Fear, uncertainty, and doubt, FUD, FUD.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: That all the time.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: Can I tell you, I'm gonna be like, can you stop fudding
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: me, please?
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: Go...
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: stop fudding
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: around for FUD's sakes.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: for fun's
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: sake.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: My kind of hot take on this is that it's it's so interesting where a job ad is such
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: such a reflection of the company itself and what they do, right?
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like the job ad is written just like what the company itself does.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's very like, I don't know, it's intense.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: I thought someone just opened my door.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: I think I'm scared.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: I have the FUD now.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_02: You gave me the FUD.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: Gave you the FUD.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: Because like, so adversary is a nice
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: word, right?
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: Of, you've already started to put up a...
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: No, like to your point, Paul, like you've already given me the problem.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: There is a person out there as an adversary.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody likes to work with adversary, right?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: God, who's applying to this?
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, carry on.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: I do have some questions for you about this language.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, so that was the first sentence.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: the threats disrupting our way of life today have gone faceless, borderless, and
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: beyond the reach of any human operator.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: And my question about that language, faceless, borderless, like, what is that
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: language doing here?
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: They haven't actually told us who or what the threat is, but they've made it
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: feel enormous.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so I guess I would like to know from you, Rebecca.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: What is that escalation doing to the reader emotionally?
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's that agentless piece, right?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: So the nice thing about this is this is a passive voice where, this is being
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: done to us, but we don't know
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: by, it's a little bit of the passive, right?
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_02: Of, these things are happening, but by using like faceless, faceless I think
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_02: is interesting because it's that unknown.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: borderless because it means that it's not the call is not coming from inside the
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: house.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's the... international threat.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like this feels very espionage language.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like am I applying for the James
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: Bond role or what do we, because I know that job's been filled by the beautiful
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: Henry Cavill.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: So that's been taken.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: Wait, has it?
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: my God.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: Is this breaking news?
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I don't I think it broke.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: But as soon as he wasn't in Witcher anymore, I was like he's a... you're 100%
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: James Bond, don't f*ck around.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway,
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: sorry.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: So that job's in field.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: But yes, the faceless, borderless, it is... you're putting unknowns into the head already.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_02: But it's not using passive voice, which is what they tend to do.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: But this is more of an active voice, which means that the threat is there,
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: especially like
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: they've said adversary, they've said faceless, they've said borderless.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: What was the other one they said?
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: faceless, borderless, and beyond the reach of any human operator.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: Who is this magic man?
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: But see, I
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: think I know when I hear this job
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: ad, I think I know exactly who they're trying to attract, right?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: The people
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: who are like, f*ck yeah, I'm gonna like protect my
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: family and whatever.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like it you know, you know.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's very selective filtering.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: the thing about not naming the adversary too, that's an intentional choice.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: this this marketing mechanism where you create an unknown adversary, the second that
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: you name that adversary, it loses a lot of its potency and power because all of a
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: sudden
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: people can employ critical thinking to the extent that they want to and say, okay,
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: the adversary is Bob down the street.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: or its corporation in another country, I can actually think for myself and look at
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: what their record is and the actions that they've taken.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: And perhaps I'll remain kind of scared of them.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: Perhaps I won't.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: But if you don't actually ever name the adversary, then you can perpetually keep
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: that fear stoked.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: That's why this works as a narrative.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: Linguistically as well, reminds me of the
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: implicature of you're purposely leaving things out and you're allowing the person
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: to make
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: assumptions in their head and they have to read between the lines, which I think is
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: exactly what's going on here from a linguistic perspective.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: The implicature is what it forces you to have to construct because there's nothing
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: else there.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: You're constructing a face, you're constructing
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: you're a border, you're constructing whatever it is that they've left out.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: think that's, yeah...
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's interesting.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's very intentional because like you you're both saying, you're gonna eff everyone
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: who reads this is gonna fill in the gaps.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna have their own adversaries.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna say, that's this person,
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: or that's the person who works at the convenience store down the street, or
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: that's somebody who, you know, mugged me five years ago, or whatever.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's why it works really well,
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: because all three of us have three different people in our heads, but it's
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: personal to all three of us, to the ways, so you don't, by filling in the gaps,
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: like you
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: apply to a lot more people by instilling the FUD.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe let's just go to the role section now.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: What are you actually going to do?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: or you'd think that 's what they would be covering in that section.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: but let's see.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so the next the next section is... yeah.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: Foreshadowing!
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: Role.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: We're looking for the high-energy, high-agency generalist to be our first business
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: operations hire.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: Our mission is one of ruthless tunnel vision on the specific outcome or feature
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: that makes
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: our invisible adversaries more visible, the people contesting them more effective,
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: and our
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: collective safety, less illusory.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: Specificity comes at the expense of being able to generalize.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: We are looking for the generalist who can navigate this.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: You will wear many hats.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: You won't let a single detail fall through the cracks.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: You will not navigate a hierarchy.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: You may be sitting across from a flag officer or case officer within your first
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: week.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: You won't merely build the operational glue for a company building for the highest
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: stakes missions.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: You will create the architecture that enables us to
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: Defy the conventional wisdom of who contests our adversaries and where.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's the role.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, thoughts?
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: This is really interesting in that the the company is two to ten people, right?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a software company engaged somewhere in the supply chain of the national
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: security apparatus in the United States.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: We can kind of guess that.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: but a two to ten person company that sits in front of like a a flag officer and a
• 14:47
  case
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: officer, that implies some seriousness to the organization and it employ it
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: implies that they're bringing in
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: money because they have government contracts, but it's only two to ten people.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: There's something a little bit odd about this narrative.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah, you think?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: There were a lot of contradictions, I think a lot of us.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: Juliet, how can you not be tunneled, what was it?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: How can you be
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: tunneled visioned and wear many hats when you're like, what are you?
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: And they were talking about like specificity and ambiguity.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: was just like, talk about
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: ambiguity.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like you can't even be specific.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how are you...
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, is this just the way, I mean, I'm thinking about speech communities.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: none, correct me if I'm wrong, or you can't if you're in espionage or in any sort
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: If you're 008, Paul, for example...
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: maybe this is just the way the Secret Service speak and because none of us are
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: in it we don't know maybe these are all just...
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know, code words that they all talk about.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'm talking about these.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: I can kind of get into what speech communities are, but they're basically just
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: industries, very industry-specific of like you use terms and labels and ways in
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: which people normally speak.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: And we see it in a lot of these industries.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not hearing any tech speech community wording though.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm hearing a lot more of the espionage.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: Paul and I
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: talk about a lot on the show is that organizations typically have their own pattern
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: language and sometimes it doesn't quite translate and sometimes that doesn't matter.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: In a role like this, maybe you do want to attract people who know exactly what
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: you're talking about when you say this like weird sh*t that they're talking about.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: But in a more like general job ad, when you stick to that internal pattern
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: language, you are really... you're really narrowing your prospects by doing that.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: So for this, it everything they're doing is on purpose.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like they're they're wording in a specific way.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like we mentioned, they're trying to attract someone, a very specific type of
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: individual.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: a very specific kind of skills.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing I was gonna ask was about that ruthless tunnel vision.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: That to me, that's something that we would normally describe as someone
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: almost in an insulting way.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, "ugh, you and your ruthless tunnel vision, like broaden your broaden your
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: scope," you know?
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: but here, it's spoken as a virtue.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so what I wanna know from you is, what do you think, both of you, what do
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: you think that
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: What kind behavior do you think that that's signaling when they say things like
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: ruthless tunnel vision?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: For me, it brings up or it conjures up a cultural picture where the ends
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: justify or the ends justify the means or the means justify the ends or whatever the
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: saying
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: goes.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: they're basically saying
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: you will be required to do whatever it takes to meet our objectives.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: Now, whether or not the the true objective is unmasking the baddie or filling up the
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: company's coffers.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: Remains to be seen.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of fudgy stuff that goes on in government contracting.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: This could be one of those.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: But they will want you to be ruthless in your pursuit of their objectives.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: I very much picture a culture where people kind of stab each other in the back to
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: get face, right?
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: And
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: And be seen as the people who or the person who adds value or brings the stuff to the
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: show.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of see that from this language that they're using.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: This is a really good point because if you're saying, we need you to be
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: ruthless in your role, that's going to spill over into behaviours within.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: They've got great company culture, let me tell you
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: Great.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: I bet you they don't
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: have a head of HR.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: I bet they don't have an HR team.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I bet this was written by some dude who was just like, we just need a guy that
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: will
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: come in here and do, actually the other thing that I, and I just said it, this isn't...
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: very specific for a man.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: I turned up, they tell
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: me to f*ck off.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: Even if I was very good at espionage, I'm quite sure they'd be like, no, not you.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: A hundred percent, I think
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: anyone in the chat, like when we all say like we can picture who they're trying to
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: attract in this company,
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: of absolutely, this is very gendered.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: The other thing I was thinking of, like, as you were saying that Paul of the
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: ruthless tunnel vision is yes, that sounds like a man, but also
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: You don't say that sh*t in corporate.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: You say "dedicated."
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'm thinking about the translation of like, they're being very explicit here about
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: what they're asking for,
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: which means to me they have no corporate filter.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: This doesn't sound like a corporate government, any sort of...
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: Mmhmm.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: there's no rules to your point, Paul, because otherwise all of the
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: ruthless tunnel vision is politely written as
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: dedicated and, what?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: Attention to detail?
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, all of those things is...
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: but it was, yeah, but at the end of the day, when you step into the
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: workplace,
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: when it's really political, "ruthless tunnel vision" would have been a nicer way
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: to say
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: what the f*ck I'm doing because that's basically, so I'm interested to think
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: about
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: that, particularly just from the dynamics of the company, but also the fact that
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: they are
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: very explicit about what they're asking for in a way that you don't normally get to
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: do in a job description.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: which means that it sounds like HR doesn't exist at this company.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: could also be, in fairness, and I suspect that this is not the case, given
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: how the job ad so far has been written.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: But the the choice of language could be an intentional choice.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it could be filtering, you know, maybe through that phrase they're
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: expressing that they do not want typical corporate people.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they want people who gravitate towards this.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: f*ck the man, burn everything, save the world, sort of person, like the guardian
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: mindset.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: The language is very intentional here.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: This is a company
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: that understands their ideal candidate profile probably better than most other job
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: job ads that we review.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: The good and the bad that come with it for this specific type of role.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: What I think is really interesting is that this is how much discussion we've had so
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: far, and we still don't actually know what this role is doing.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: What are they doing?
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: So far, it's just been this like narrative, and we don't actually know yet what it
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: is that their role.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: Remember, their title is "Operations."
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: I keep having "operations" in the back of my head to be, this is "operations,"
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: but you have to be ruthless and exposing people.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well why don't we go into responsibilities?
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: because
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: we are very close to the end of the job.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: There are only two more sections.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Responsibilities.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Your responsibilities will range from orchestrating an office relocation and all
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: And all of the underlying wrinkles that entails to identifying a critical personnel
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: gap
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: and spinning up the hiring machine to find and persuade that person, to ensuring the
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: registrations, documentation, and deadlines that keep this ship afloat are
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: addressed.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: Whether it's our own internal robustness or all of the minutiae required to go
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: from an inform...
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so sorry, it's so hard to read.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: Whether it's our own internal robustness or all of
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: The minutiae required to go from an affirmative yes to a live operational pilot
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: with a
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: national security partner, you will build the framework, execute on it, and grow it
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: into a system.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: That was one sentence.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: This role isn't for the person who doesn't have just an iota of paranoia as they're
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: falling asleep that there's a fire brewing.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: The person who is content with good enough or the person who seeing and stopping
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: the most insidious threats to our way of life merely
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: entails linear effort.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: Your responsibilities will largely entail... a couple of bullets.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: this is what I'm saying.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: Right now I know that it's an office move and maybe I'm hiring people and I'm too
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: paranoid to sleep at night.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, you're hiring "a" person and persuading them...
• 23:40
  Mm-hmm.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: So let's go into the actual three bullet points.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: Your responsibilities will largely entail...
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: Are they always this hard or did you just choose a really hard one for me?
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: This is
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: why I was, it's really short, but at the same time, there's so much in there.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: So this is a perfect Rebecca job ad.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: Owning everything without a function yet, including finance ops, vendors, contracts,
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: insurance, registrations, and the compliance deadlines, nobody's tracking until
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: they're too late.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: Build the systems
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: the company runs on, including onboarding, tooling, docs, and internal process.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: So the same fire doesn't happen twice.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Be the operational glue.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: Who said the fire happened in the first place??
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: !
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: What?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: They just did.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: No, they just did
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: be the operational glue on whatever's urgent, chiefly hiring pushes, the office,
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: security
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: logistics, partner-facing setup, and the connective work between teams that
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: otherwise
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: falls through.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: So that as a reminder was "responsibilities."
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: Initial... initial thoughts?
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: I got lots of thoughts.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: but Rebecca, you are our guest.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: Why don't you... why don't you go first?
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: Are you passing the plate to me with the spoon handle facing my direction?
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: I'm trying be polite and use my manners.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I think when you first started reading it, I was like, it sounds like a Chief of
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: Staff.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: And then I was like, now it's not Chief of Staff.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_02: But then I also realised Chief of Staff is often a catch-all term for people who
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: are just
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: like, go clean all this sh*t up and come tell me when you're done, because you're
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: very organised and you're Type A.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like, tell me when you've hired everyone and everything's fixed.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: Is the other kind of idea of like maybe this is a Chief of Staff role, but in a very
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: typical Chief of Staff would just like just go fix sh*t and we'll see you later.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's one thing that I was hearing.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: And then it suddenly morphed into
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: something else when you're now doing admin and compliance and getting vendors
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: through the door and making sure everything's okay.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: But also it also rang true of like a little bit of an HR role of like you're hiring,
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: you're making sure you're finding the right fit, like you're persuading people to
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: join.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: So it's kind of like that 10 person team needing.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: Possibly, is the typical, like, this is one person's role, because we only have the
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: budget for it, but you're to do five people's roles.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: Wear a lot of hats.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: And tunnel vision, tunnel vision, tunnel, tunnel vision the sh*t out of those hats, right?
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: yeah.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: Who can do this job
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: though?
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like, that's what I want to know.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like who?
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know how some people, they hire this in their head, they're writing for this
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: person who exists and who they think exists out there.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: Who the f*ck can do all this stuff?
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: How much are... how
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: much are they?
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: How much are they paying you for this?
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_02: Do we get to know?
• 26:45
  Yeah.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, many many people can do this job, but no one can do this
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: job... no one can do this job well.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a distinction there.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: For me, this... a few things kind of stood out here.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about the tunnel vision, right?
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the... that's the classic T-shaped fallacy with people who work in
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: organizations,
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: like, we want you to be T-shaped, which, you know, people who use that
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: terminology,
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: what they mean is that you want to be... they want you to be exceptional at a whole
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: bunch of stuff, but know everything at the same time.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe that exists, maybe it doesn't.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: You can certainly debate both sides of that.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: but I take this to be more of like a "T" with a whole bunch of little stems.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not... "T" as in you're good at one thing, it's T as in you're good at
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: absolutely everything.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the only way that this works.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what they expect and demand, and they think it's rational, which is its
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: own kind of warning sign about this, right?
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: it's a flag about this organization and its leadership.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Another thing that stood out for me.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: Is they talk about going to a pilot with a national security organization.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: To me, that kind of says, okay, they're pre-revenue.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: they've maybe gotten a little bit of DARPA money to throw around.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, they are building a pilot with a grant from DARPA.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's what they're doing.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: And they're probably flying by the seat of their pants, and they're using a whole
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: lot more hype than they are actual value-added stuff.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: to sell themselves.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: This really smells like that so far.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: Another thing that stood out for me is compliance.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: Putting compliance in this context under a business operations lead is a terrible
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: idea.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: It is a terrible, terrible, terrible idea.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to go very badly, especially when you factor in that this is a company
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: engaged in building autonomous AI systems.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: A couple of questions come up.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: Compliance with what?
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: There aren't a whole lot of rules right now in this space.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, keeping the military industrial complex happy under those conditions
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: with respect to compliance is going to be f*cking hard.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean there's so much to say.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think what stands out for me is all of the like bullsh*t that they've been
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: talking about up until this point is kind of irrelevant to the role itself.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like you said, is it Chief of Staff or a kind of ops coordinator type
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: person?
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: The rest of it doesn't really matter.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like the focus is... should really be looking at
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: what it is that this person is doing, whether or not they have the skills and
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: capability to do it.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: But all of this thing about, why do you need your operations person to... like it
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: says
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: this role isn't for the person who doesn't have just one just an iota of paranoia as
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: they're falling asleep that there's a fire brewing.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: Pardon me?
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: Pardon me...
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: The f*ck are you talking about?
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: You want an ops person?
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: Hire an ops person.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: Why do they need to... why do you have to say all of this other stuff?
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: But the thing is, at the end of the day, it's good, because then somebody will know
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: what they're getting into.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: This job ad is telling you everything about the company.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: The fact that it's bringing in, especially because I don't know about anybody else,
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like you two included, anybody on the call, I'm very visual.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: So when you're reading all of this, I'm picturing a lot of things happening because
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: it is very like, the words
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: aren't emotive, but they are very
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: illusory of what it is that this could be so... the unmasked, the
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: unknown, the borderless, all these kinds of things like are coming up.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: So you're already creating pictures in your head.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: To me, it's like, why is a job description, picturing me in bed, not sleeping in
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: my home and bringing that front and centre into a job description?
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: Because what I do in the workplace has nothing to do with me being in bed and
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: not being able to sleep.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: That... that I find also very strange.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: They're moving you through
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: this isn't the same as like we are a family, but it's kind of like why are you
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: in my house?
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: Why are you in my bed?
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: Why are you... why is this something
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: that you're... but as we said, very... this sounds like they know who they want
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: to have who doesn't mind that kind of no-barrier-between, so...
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: But this is such a good point because again this this job is telling you how you
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: will be treated at this organization.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: And if they're willing to cross that boundary in written form in the job ad, then
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: that is going to happen in your work life all the time.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the other thing that's concerning to me is that, like we talked about,
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: they're trying to attract a certain individual.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: But yet, this is an operations role.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: So somebody could read this and be like, f*ck yeah, this job is so intense,
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna protect my country or whatever.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: You're hired and they're like, can you plan the office move, please?
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: And this person is gonna be like, but when do I get to do the sh*t?
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's the type of person it...
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: when do I get to unmask?
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: When do I get to f*ck sh*t up?
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a huge problem for them is that they will potentially bring
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: someone in
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_02: who maybe has operational skills, but is driven or motivated by this mission and
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: might
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: be a loose canon.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm surprised they didn't
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: say, necessary requirements.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: You haven't got to qualifications yet or is there a section?
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: there is a section of that, yeah.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_02: Should we go into it?
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah... can I place a bet?
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, I don't know.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_02: Because they're being very explicit.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: So they're not d*cking around.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: They're not withholding anything.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_02: They're being quite transparent.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't be surprised if they're asking for military experience.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: people can get sh*t done but also feel super excited to go f*ck sh*t up.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: So, I wonder whether there's any of that in here.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm...
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: Reveal.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: I...
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: think it's a safe bet, and I would I would assume that the chat's probably thinking
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: the same thing Paul, you probably had, because again, when we think of that imagery.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna take...
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna take the contrarian position on this.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to say that they are not going to ask for military experience,
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: solely because this is the wrapper of a tech bro organization.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: They don't think like that.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: I am starting
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: to picture in my brain an organization which has gotten grants from DARPA or from
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: another similar program in the US.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, alright, cool, we've got money.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then they found themselves in this position where they can do an actual pilot
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: with a national security agency in the US.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: And now they're scrambling and panicking because they actually have to produce
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: something rather than just taking the grant money.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think they're going to call for someone with military experience.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think they're going to call for somebody with some experience at doing something.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not going to be super relevant to what they actually need.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: So let's get into it.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: Let's see.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: Can I be honest?
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm saying that because..
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, you're being super
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: cagey, alright, whatever that's like, whatever you say.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I can't remember, but let's find out.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so this is the last section, who you are.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not necessarily saying these are the qualifications.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: Who you are?
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't say qualifications, or experience or anything like that?
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: It says "who you are," which again, each of these things are telling you
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: something, right?
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: Just the language that they choose.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: I can't wait to read it, I'm very excited.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so how many bullet points?
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: There are six bullet points.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: Who you are?
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: A former private equity or VC investor, or top-tier consultant where you learned
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: to hold rigour and speed
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: at the same time.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: A BizOps Chief of Staff or first ops hire at a series A to C startup
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: where you built the function instead of inheriting it.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: A founder who built and ran your own company so you know what it takes
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: Who the f*ck is this person?!
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: ?
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: when there's no one to escalate to.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: Campaign or advanced staff where the deadline never moves and the machine has to
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: hold.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: Think-tank operations or programs where the registrations, documentation, and
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: deadlines were yours to keep straight.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: And the last bullet point: national security, government, or IC background where the
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: mission was always bigger than the paycheck.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: If this is you, you will become a central pillar in the most important inflection to
• 35:39
  national security.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: The spoils reaped won't just denominated in material terms, but in lives saved.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: And scene.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: So we were both right, Rebecca, we were both right.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: They took the contrarian opposite action... who are you
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: they must have meant, we are looking for one of, we are working for one of
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_02: these people because there's no way that you would
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: find that in one person.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: There's no way.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: I think they're listing... like here's some things that could work out,
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: right?
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: But
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what I find interesting with that one is...
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you must have talked about this, but women tend to only apply for
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: jobs if they can do 100%
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: of the things listed.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_02: Men are like, I see a bullet point.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: I can be that person.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: To me, again, this screams it's a man, because they'll pick
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: one of them and they'll be like, yeah, can be, I'm two of those six people.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's six different professional archetypes.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's what they're looking for.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so what's interesting to me is that they're not listing any skill set or
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: capabilities or competencies or demonstrated whatever.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_02: They're just like... you're either this, this, this, this, this, or this type of
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_02: person.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's what matters to them.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_02: and it's interesting to me...
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_02: But like Paul said,
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_02: you can't be like, if you're one of those people, that means you can only do one of
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: those functions well, the rest of them aren't going to work, right?
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: going back to your "T" with the many prongs, if you're only one of those
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: six, then, it's all very contradictory, right?
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: Of what they've already said of.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: The breadth over depth, which one or do you want?
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: Depth
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: over breadth?
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: There's... there are a lot of comments in the chat
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: about like the a ADHD nature of a type of role like this.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it is like a someone who is very much ADHD, some of this, not the
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: we're gonna unmask and blah blah blah, but the
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: the different things and all... all the opportunities to wear different hats is
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: kind of interesting for someone like me in the way that my brain works.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it's also lacking in specificity.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's lacking in focus and they're...
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think they're gonna, I don't know how
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_02: they're going to interview.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: you know what, actually Sophia Rook wrote a piece on this about
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_02: the hoops
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_02: corporates are jumping you through.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: So a six hour dinner, there's a whole, it's supposed to be labour and
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: emotionally and physically and mentally intensive and exhaustive just to do a
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_02: little bit of a flex.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, Jennifer, you know her.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_02: She, I think it's one of her... not the latest one, it's a bit the one before
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_02: where it's
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: This is, it's a whole strategy and a flex to grind someone down during an
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: interview and then be... it's
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: gonna come.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: I could see that being part of this.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: Paul and I just did a non-live recording earlier this week.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, everyone.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: And this is what we talked about.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think this is what we were talking about in that one, about people who will
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: say, the
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_01: way I nterview someone is to take them to like a restaurant and see how they treat
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: the wait staff.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: But that's also... that could
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: be they want them to be rude to them or they want them to who knows, but...
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: that's not how you assess whether or not someone is going to be successful in
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: their role at your organization.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's wild to me.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like you said, the hoops that we make... or, were we surprised, you want to
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_01: surprise
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_01: people or like catch them on something where like you you put like little hidden
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_02: booby
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_02: traps within your interview process that are so absolutely ridiculous.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's bullsh*t.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_02: For me, job descriptions are usually a test, right?
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_02: Of some measure, you're trying to test whether somebody can do a job.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I've talked about this in some of my work before of like construct validity of
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_02: what are you f*cking testing?
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_02: Because Google does this as well, all these like FAANG or
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_02: whatever we're now calling them, because now they're the acronym.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_02: They used to ask you questions like "how many marbles fit in The Bean
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: in Chicago?"
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_02: And you'd have to do all these weird and wonderful mathematical
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_02: equations.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_02: I remember when I applied for job at Google, and they asked me some dumb f*cking
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_02: sh*t
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_02: questions, and I asked the person who I knew worked there, in the role, in a product
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_02: manager role, and I was like, hey.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: Do you sit around calculating how many marbles are in The Bean?
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_02: And
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_02: she was like, no, this is just a product manager role.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_02: I said, so why the f*ck are they asking me dumb questions that have nothing to do
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_02: with the actual job?
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_02: Because then you're not testing whether or not I can do the job.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_02: We even see this for...
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_02: I've actually thought about this for presidential elections and
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_02: politicians of...
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_02: doesn't matter how f*cking nice you are you can go kiss as many babies as you want
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_02: but if
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_02: you can't move
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_02: a bill through and if you can't get like what is the actual job why are we looking
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_02: at
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_02: these people's personalities and all the things that, like, that's not gonna make you
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_02: good
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_02: at a politician's job it's you have there's stuff to do there, so I'm always
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: like, with these kinds of things, I'm always really
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: thinking about, well, you're not testing the right construct, you're testing
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: something
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: else that isn't actually... so when I don't get the job, it's not because I couldn't
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: have done
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: the job it's because you f*cking tested something dumb that I can't do that has
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: nothing to do with the job
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've had interviewed questions where somebody has asked me what f*cking
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: Hogwart's House I'm in.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that they think that they're being funny.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: What Hogwart's House are you in? I don't know, the one that
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: supports trans rights?
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: So what does that have to do?
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, not JK Rowling's house then?
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: the correct house.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: you know, and I think that companies are trying to be in that situation,
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: what's your spirit animal, which is highly offensive, by the way.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: It... they're trying to be funnier, show personality, but it's a waste of everyone's
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: time.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_01: There are tools like role analysis and you know, any time there's a lot
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: of work that should go into this process before a job ad goes live.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: That just never happens, right?
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: Interviewing the the person who's in the role before, the people who interact
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_01: with this role and really fine-tune it.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: But no one does that.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: They just copy and paste the amount of times that we've found job ads that are
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_01: they
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_01: have a couple of different titles, and you can see that they've just copied and
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: pasted it,
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: and it's just so... so off the mark.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: I've shared the full job ad with you in our Riverside chat.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: So you can take a look and see the the entire job ad verbatim.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then when you come back, we're gonna get ratings from you on think about out of
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: 10 a rating for the job ad itself, how it's written, like the format, whether it has
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_01: pertinent information, and then out of
• 43:06
  for the role design and that's more like, is this a sustainable role?
• 43:10
  Are they set up to succeed?
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: Is this actually gonna work out for the organization?
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_02: I guess what I would like is before we do the ratings, any kind of final final
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_02: thoughts on the job ad?
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_02: You can why don't you go ahead first, Rebecca, on that?
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_02: What are your final thoughts?
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_02: What are your ratings?
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_02: it on my phone.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_02: So tooth, and I can't tell whether this is just like my bias, because I have this
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: on the brain for my next week's post.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_02: But I see a lot of flattery.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_02: I see a lot of moral obligation.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I see a lot
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_02: of like,
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_02: There's just a lot of who you are as a human being type.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_02: If you're not awake in the middle of the night, really paranoid about the way the
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_02: world is going, then we don't want you.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_02: You're not good enough.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of moral obligation wrapped up in flattery because you're the kind of
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_02: person we want.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I can't make heads or tails of your...
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_02: This roll makes it permanent, so you should be flattered.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_02: that this role is even here because all of these things have meant that this means
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_02: that
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_02: this job is here so as you apply for it and you're thinking you're this person you
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_02: should
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_02: be honoured to even be part of this is what I have and then like you won't do this
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_02: you
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_02: will do this you will do that you won't do that is very like there's no hedging
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_02: here ew
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_02: but there's no like
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_02: it's very certain when you do a job, you're...
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_02: you have targets and you try and reach them and you work towards them.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_02: There's no... you fail if you don't do that and you will if you... this just seems
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_02: very...
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_02: and then the other one that I have is the morality of also, what is this
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_02: sentence?
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_02: Isn't for a person who doesn't have how many negatives are you gonna put a sentence
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_02: where, who am I, what am I doing,
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_02: And then like, my, this, this, my last thing is, I'm sorry, this, this was, the
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_02: spoils reaped is a very warfare type...
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_02: Language?
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_02: Already very aggressive.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_02: You don't... you don't
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_02: reap spoils in the workplace.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_02: You do that when you go in and shoot sh*t up and you take over a village type thing.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_02: Won't just.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_02: not just in denominated in material terms, i.e.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_02: we're probably not going to pay you very well, but in lives saved.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like you're going to feel really good when you go home because you've saved lives,
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_02: but
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_02: we're not going to pay you very much, but you're also going to, like, pillage a
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_02: village is,
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_02: basically, what I'm reading.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: In that last line, I'm like, that's just, to me, that is the job description in
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: that final line.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_02: like, if that gets your jollies up, then you can apply.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_02: Ha ha ha
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, absolutely.
• 46:16
  Do you want to
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_02: we're while we're here, why don't we get your ratings?
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_02: What did you think about the job ad?
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_02: As a job ad, I don't think this is that bad.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_02: They're not mincing their words.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_02: They're not telling you... you're backfilling a role or like being cagey
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_02: about anything.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_02: They're being very explicit, while also being very implicit, which I know is very
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_02: contradictory, but they're not d*cking around.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_02: I think we've already said this of...
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think it reads, they know who they want.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_02: They're targeting who they want.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_02: They...
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's what a job ad is for, right?
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_02: Is to get the right candidate.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_02: Do they want a lot?
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but so do a lot of job descriptions.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's always more than what they say on the piece of paper.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'd say as a job description goes, I think this is pretty...
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_02: I give it an eight, although there's some things missing.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: You don't know what this job day to day is going to do.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think the person, I don't think the guy who applies this role really gives
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: a sh*t about what he's doing day to day.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, this is me.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: What about you, Paul?
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: What are your thoughts?
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm worried I failed the test.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_02: No, this is... this show is not academia.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: There is no final test.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: you are graded on... you're graded on your contributions, not the the things
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: that you check off on the boxes.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: So we're fine.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: So the the job ad, kind of thoughts on that, you know, to mirror what you were
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: saying a little bit.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: there is an exceptional use of filtering in this job ad.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: They did a very, very, very
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_02: good job of employing filtering.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_02: both kind of the the structural logical type of filtering and the emotional type of
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_02: filtering.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: Do you purposefully try and filter not when it comes through, in the job,
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_01: you write in a certain way where you're filtering and weeding people out.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: Is that a strategy that you guys use?
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think it depends.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_01: It depends on the role.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_00: it depends
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: on the organization, but for the company that I work for right now, do I
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: do that?
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: It depends.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_00: It can be very effective.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's one tool upon, it's one tool within a belt of many is kind of
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: my picture on filtering in a job ad.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: but they very clearly wanted to employ filtering and they did a bang up good
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_00: job at it.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_00: it is unfortunate that the person who wrote this job ad, their command of the
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_00: English
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_00: language, their structural command of the English language is bloody atrocious.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of this was gibberish.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_00: It was pure gibberish.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't actual structured language.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: It was a bunch of words that are attached to emotions that were strung together in
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: a way that was meant to have an outcome attached to filtering.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: As a piece of writing, this is pure trash, it's garbage.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_00: But as a job ad and as a filter, it's pretty darn good.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: for instance, they use things like the part where they talk about
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: "You're the paranoid person who is like lying awake at night," blah, blah, blah.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_00: Both of you
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_00: interpret that as an intrusion and an invasion.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's a negative thing for you.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_00: And that's absolutely fair.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_00: I see that side of it.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: But that is hero framing to a certain type of person.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_00: There is hero
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: and there is worth
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_00: in sitting up at night worrying about the state of the world
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: and other people, right?
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_00: So there are examples like that throughout where they they use that language pretty
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: effectively.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_00: This is also a purpose-seeking job ad.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_00: They don't want someone who is here for the money.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_00: They don't want someone who is here to have a job, they want someone who is seeking
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_00: purpose in their life.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_00: They don't say that outright, but they say it.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_00: Pretty clearly.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_00: so, that all kind of contributes to a job ad being effective in attracting
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_02: people, even though I think the writing is pure trash.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_00: As a job ad, I would give this a six out of ten.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's pretty... it's pretty good, even if I hate it.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: The role design, that's much easier to put a number on.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's pure trash because there is no design whatsoever.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: This role design is completely lacking in design.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: I will give it a 0.15 out of 10.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_00: They only get the 0.15 because they're actually quite honest when they say that
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_00: you'll be doing a bunch of stuff.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_00: You'll be wearing a lot of hats.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_00: They don't try and hide that.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: They're pretty open about it.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that's... that is something, but they haven't thought about what they truly need.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_00: The person who gets this role, unless they're a pure devout believer type
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_00: person who
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_00: will go to the ends of the earth for this organization because they filled them with
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_00: purpose and whatnot, and they have some attached issues that they haven't worked
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_00: through
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_00: that work in this company's favour, unless they are that, they're going to flame out
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_00: really, really quickly.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_00: especially in the contextual background, pardon me, the contextual background of
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: operating in a national security environment as a contractor.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_00: That is not an easy job to start with.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then you're saying, you're gonna deal with all of the crazy sh*t and whatever
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: we need, that'll be you.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a role design.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's a friggin' prayer that it'll work out.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would say similarly, the job ad itself for me, like maybe a four, I don't
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't tell you anything.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so when we say okay, they put words to paper, there's nothing
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_01: there about the job itself.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_01: Even their qualifications
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_01: are
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_01: not done properly.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_01: They don't talk about pay, they don't talk about benefits, they don't
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_01: talk about anything that's in it for you.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_01: Again, this is where we talk a lot about in job ads, how extractive it can be.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna do this and you're gonna do that.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_01: This isn't even that extractive.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's just that there's no reciprocation.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_01: You will get from this is our... this is our contract to each other and
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_01: there's none of that listed there.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_01: We don't know who it reports to.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_01: We don't know... we don't know anything about the job ad.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I can't even give it a decent rating.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even want to give them credit.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, I don't like it either.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_01: but sometimes I will be like, okay, it's fine because at least they're listing some
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_01: of these things.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_01: But here, it's a very confusing job ad and it's very manipulative as well, like you
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_01: said.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_01: yeah, so there's not there's not enough information here for me to believe or to
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: understand what this job is.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_01: for role design, I mean there's no... like you said, there's nothing there because
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_01: I don't get what the job necessarily is.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if this person could be successful.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if they could sustain this role because I don't have enough
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_01: information.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_01: They just go on and on and on and on about their fear-mongering and get
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_01: someone all hyped up to hit apply.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_01: and there's just... there's just nothing there.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think about, well, how would that work in an organization and you have a few
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_01: people?
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think they said it was, I can't remember the employee count, but it was very
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_01: small.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_01: How does this role function and interact with the other roles?
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_01: This is what I'm thinking about when I'm reading job ads.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_01: And there's just simply not enough information there about the job itself and
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_01: about the structure to even paint a picture of that.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_01: So the audience voted as well.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_01: So for the job
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_01: ad itself, the average rating was a two out of ten.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_02: And for the role, the role design,
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_02: was a one point three three.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_02: so we had a few votes there,
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_02: So the
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_02: only thing I would say about the language is I think it's wildly overcomplicated.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_02: But I also don't think this is necessarily AI.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_02: I know that was,
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_02: it might be controversial.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think this was written by AI, I think this is written by a group of people
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_02: who
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_02: didn't really know what they were asking for, who just cobbled together some nonsense.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_02: I could, I'm picturing a group of five men sitting around a table, like basically
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_02: copying
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_02: and pasting what they want into it and putting it in, which means that there is
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_02: really no
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_02: flow.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_02: There is no sense, not like sensical nonsense.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like somebody wrote the, somebody wrote the intro and was like, we're saving lives,
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_02: doing sh*t.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_02: And then like somebody's...
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_02: And that's where I feel like the edits and the way that feels clunky is because I
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_02: think
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_01: this is written by many different people just cobbled together with no one voice.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because it goes into different voices really quickly.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_01: When I was reading it, I was like, my god, talk about shifting gears.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_01: We often think about who...
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_01: like, who's doing the actual writing?
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_01: Is it the hiring manager?
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_01: Is it the recruiter?
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_01: Is it just something that they found on the internet as a template and then they're
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_01: just filling it in?
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_01: Is
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_01: it do a whole bunch
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_01: of people have their, you know, have their fingerprints all over this?
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think that it's just maybe people adding instead of editing, people are just
• 55:25
  adding their thoughts and then put this and then put that.
• 55:28
  I think we can consider
• 55:30
  this post roasted.