Latest / The STA Clinician Podcast / STA189 ‘MoveMojo: Fitness for Individuals With Disabilities' with guest Robert Francis

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STA189 ‘MoveMojo: Fitness for Individuals With Disabilities' with guest Robert Francis · The STA Clinician Podcast

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You're listening to the Sports Therapy Association podcast, putting evidence
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back into soft tissue therapy.
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Music.
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Welcome to episode 189 of the Sports Therapy Association podcast. podcast.
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My name is Matt Phillips, creator of runchatlive.com. And as always,
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this episode is being recorded live on a Tuesday, 8 o'clock on the Sports Therapy
0:34
Association YouTube channel, Sports Therapy Association Facebook page,
0:37
and the Sports Therapy Association open group.
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So if you are listening to the podcast, thank you very much for listening.
0:43
But if you would like to join us live and have a chance to ask our guests questions
0:48
directly and hang out with other people who join us live, then all you've got
0:51
to do is go along on a Tuesday at 8 o'clock to one of those sources and you can do so.
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In this episode 189 entitled Move
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Mojo Fitness for Individuals with Disabilities my special guest is Robert Francis
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who has eight years experience working in Olympic and Paralympic disciplines
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and he's going to be discussing his new project Move Mojo which is an inclusive
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physical activity program that creates accessibility and enjoyment for everyone
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regardless of their ability.
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Robert is on a mission to redefine the perception of disability through the
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power of movement so stay tuned to hear how soft tissue therapists in particular
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can help create a world in which the opportunity to move is a human right,
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that's just that's not my words that's quoted from the website that gives you
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an idea the passion i'm so excited about this episode i have been for ages and
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i say that about all our guests but it's such a great topic which we've touched
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on before and we really are lucky to have a guy of robert's experience and passion with us tonight.
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But first of all, last week in episode 188 of the Sports Therapy Association.
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We concluded our three-part series of how to set up a massage therapy business
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in which our panel of experienced sports massage therapists and sports therapists
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gave some fantastic tips on both setting up as a mobile therapist and also doing event work.
2:11
As I posted the other day or yesterday.
2:15
Because of some technical difficulties that are being investigated.
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I think I've just received notification that they are sorted,
2:20
but it's not actually available as a podcast yet, but it is on YouTube.
2:23
And by the time you hear this podcast, it should be available.
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I've just got to check the audio that's being downloaded properly for me,
2:30
and then I can upload this podcast.
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A huge thank you to the panel who took part in that episode.
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It was Carla Bickerstaff of Sports Massage by Carla, Hannah Tabram of Hannah Tabram Sports Massage,
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Katie Evans of Moodwell Soft Tissue Therapy and Chloe Reynolds of CR Sports
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Massage all links to those people and the information and the show notes is
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all available well it will be once I manage to upload it but yeah you can find
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it all I think on YouTube as well if you go to YouTube.
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By the way if you are watching tonight via the Facebook open group and you'd
3:02
like to ask a question or leave a comment then because you're in the Facebook
3:04
group you're going to need to click on the link in the post comments which I
3:08
will bring up on the screen now it's just you You only have to do it once in your lives.
3:13
And all it is, is you need to give Facebook your permission to post basically
3:19
your photo so people can see you. And I do recommend you do it because part
3:22
of hanging out and joining us live is networking so people can see your logo.
3:26
People can be attracted to it and then network and kind of find out more about
3:29
you, especially if you're in the same location in the UK.
3:31
So basically, you just need to go to b.live forward slash comments hyphen issue.
3:38
So that's b.live forward slash comments hyphen issue not important if you listen
3:43
to the podcast but if you are joining us live and you need to do that once if
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you come from a facebook group.
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Right then back to this episode of the sports therapy association podcast episode
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189 move mojo fitness for individuals with disabilities with my special guest
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robert francis who i shall bring up right now.
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Music.
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Hey Bob, how are you doing? Hi Matt, thanks for having me today and thanks for the introduction.
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That's okay, I'm really excited. As I said, I'm excited about all guests and
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I love my job and I love having the chance to speak to people.
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But I'm sure you understand, you feel particularly privileged to work with the people you do.
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Because it's an area of our society who are marginalised and they need people
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to have a bit of passion and time.
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So i'm really pleasure to spend time with you and hear all about it where are
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you in the world where are you sitting at the moment i am in the uh tropical
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paradise of birmingham so yeah.
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Beautiful our international listeners are now thinking wow the
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tropics in the uk but yes absolute paradise it's not
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the end of the world but you can see if you look out the window with a pentagon fantastic
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that's great so thanks like i said coming on the
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show people in the live lounge who have joined us
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if you have got questions i'm just gonna say hi to a few of you to join to
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recognize your presence as sarah jones is here hey sarah thanks
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so much for joining us glenn murphy is here said
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hi all and gary benson is the founder of the
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sta is here as well saying you're looking forward to this one
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aren't we all and like i say if you are in the live labs and do feel free to
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ask questions um it's a great opportunity to learn from somebody who's got massive
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experience working in this field so there we go right so it's exciting time
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for you yeah bob you just managed to launch it literally was it like a week
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ago or something the website went in life?
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Sure. Yeah. So like all startup founders, spinning multiple plates,
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putting out constant buyers.
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So yeah, the last two weeks have been pretty much full time into it.
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I've had a proof of concept for two years and really kind of strategized to
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build out like such things like the business plan, the actual curriculum, what our offering is.
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So I've been delivering for two years around full time work and then made the
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leap from the frying pan into the fire two weeks ago.
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So yeah, full-time startup founder. Yeah, it's going really well,
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really well, really excited.
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And it's an incredibly busy, busy time these last two weeks have been.
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Yeah, it's going to be tough, isn't it? We've had a few guests on the show who've
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started up these businesses, which in theory on paper should just be so successful,
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but it's like any business.
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You need to get the word out there and you need to kind of help people share
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what you're doing. And so hopefully this will help with that.
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And I'll say now for people who have just joined the podcast,
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just in case you do have to go off and do something else, if you do have an
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interest in this field, then do please go to movemojo.com.
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Simple as that, M-O-V-E-M-O-J-O.com. all
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the information is there plus all the links to our website to
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the social media if you're an instagram fan then it's move.mojo
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if you're a twitter fan for some reason then it's
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move underscore mojo and obviously it's on facebook and linkedin as well just
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look up mojo yeah definitely recommend it really exciting time and and a real
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help you can make in with a group of people like i say who really needs help
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so give us a little idea then i know this is tricky and i I warned you this
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question was going to come up.
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Obviously, you've been busy with launching it, but what is working with this
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population? What is a typical day for you, Robert?
7:24
Yeah, absolutely. So my background was in Olympic power sport.
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I finished a project to go into this full time.
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My last project was with the International Olympic Committee over in the Pacific
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in a country called Banawati.
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And kind of my background being in professional sport was,
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The life which I'm delivering now is completely in terms of contrast.
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So what you said, it's adding value to that population, which is so underserved.
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So in terms of like how my day looks, it's really intrinsically led,
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especially with the purpose and the mission statements, which you can see all
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on our website and our values.
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It's really trying to empower persons with
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disabilities to really take control of their health through physical
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activity ultimately making it inclusive making
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it safe and making a real fun environment however with
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the same sports medicine sports science elements
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as what you'd find in a para program for example or what
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we were delivering for the IOC so with that
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same same level of expertise however very purpose-led
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very intrinsically led to actually real deliver ultimately
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increase someone's quality of life and also their
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potential life expectancy too so it's
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really changed upon going from more extrinsically
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you know looking at the badge who
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i work for what team what competitions we're
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preparing for more to that greater intrinsically led
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purpose of actually we're going to change someone's
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quality of life and we're going to potentially change the course of
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someone's life through you know empowering them to take
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control of their health for example even just
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being able to reach down to the floor and pick something up off the floor or
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be able to get out the chair or get up the stairs without the the assisted need
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of the carer for example those things are so intrinsically led that you know
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my day looks completely different going from that extrinsically more high pressure
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you know this competition prep.
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For that organization etc literally going out and just changing people's lives
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through the through power movement really.
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Is it's out i read your website like
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i say go to move mojo people and and it
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is a so honest transparent kind of
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mission statement you put up there and they really do hit home
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because like you say you can really you really can change lives with this maybe
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if we could let our listeners know when we say individuals with with disabilities
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obviously that is a large range of people but But give us some examples of what
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disabilities you work with, individual, sure.
9:59
Sure, absolutely. So we use the term disabilities because we don't really want to exclude.
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So we work with all ranges of disability. That might be physical, for example.
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At the minute, we have a massive SEND population, so special educational needs,
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which could involve speech impairment, visual impairment, for example,
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as well as autism, for example, somewhere on that spectrum.
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Those within community centre special care and those within SEND schools.
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SEND schools, SEND community centres are the main bulk of
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our work at the minute in terms of providing inclusive
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physical activity for those populations
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and realistically with the SEND population the
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special educational needs it's so underserved in
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terms of what activities are available for them to be able
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to go into this we did lots of different elements of research including
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over 100 parents and we found that programs are
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so limited that could cater for this population and
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the programs that could were were very few
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and far between and not regular so for this whole demographic
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there was nothing regular in terms of physical activity in
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terms of how myself and you could just go
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join the gym for example i mean how daunting is going
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to the gym anyway how daunting is it going out for a
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run let alone if you are you have special
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educational needs for example it the dawn the the dauntingness and how the inequalities
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are just just exaggerate the problem so we really wanted to kind of provide
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that service to to this demographic and that's currently what we're working
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with at the minute within community centers and special educational needs schools,
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Fantastic. Why do you think these people are so undiscerned?
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I think from my last two years of building this up around working within Parasport
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is that it requires high levels of communication.
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High levels of coaching competency and high
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levels of experience as a practitioner on how to adapt your
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exercise hierarchy or adapt your
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exercise prescription description in terms of what could
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happen on a daily weekly monthly basis is the adaptions could
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vary so much just with that one person in front of you and
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then additionally with the group there could be 20 participants
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within the group but all 20 have various different
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needs various different abilities you as a as a
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practitioner you have to be able to have those exercise adaptions
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and that experience to be able to adapt in front of you but
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also i think what's massively key what i touched on is kind of
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the coaching experience and communication in terms of being able
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to get that message across and I think for me
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this is more challenging than working
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in Paralympic level sports and working for the
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IOC getting athletes to go and win
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a medal at the next Olympic Games because in terms of where
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I've really had to work on and continue to work on is my
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communication skills and is my adaptions every day
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is completely different every person is so different as
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well within those groups and so it really leans on that
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other side which i don't think we're taught on university programs i don't think
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we're taught on courses so it's it's really an interesting flex for me right
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now and what i've learned over the last two years to pick up those additional
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skill sets it's it's interesting.
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We had a little chat before and we've mentioned this before with people
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found on the show but it's interesting how the
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parallels that we can draw from working with
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people individuals with learning disabilities and working with
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people who have not got diagnosed learning disabilities in the sense that we
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should really all be looking as our clients as individuals who need communicating
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with in different ways and who can change like you say from day to day we should
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be recognizing recognising and be prepared and have the skills to do this.
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So it's interesting listening to you and just realising that,
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you know, what you're talking about is obviously intensified and more amplified
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than what can happen and potentially more dangerous.
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But it's all skills really that clinicians lack and need just from working with
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somebody who hasn't necessarily got a learning disability. Do you agree?
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Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I think it's a common trend what What a lot of
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S&C coaches say when you're coaching in academy settings with,
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like, for example, younger age groups, you need the better coaches there,
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arguably, because you need to have those better communication skills.
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And then as the athlete moves up the pathway to senior level,
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you're just putting numbers in a spreadsheet, doing some testing,
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looking more at the analytical kind of harder skills, so to speak.
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And I think there's a lot of correlations to draw from that in terms of everyone
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does need those communication skills.
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And when you start working with those younger age groups or you
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start working with participants or individuals with different
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disabilities or abilities so to speak you really have
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to it just opens a can of worms in terms of like wow there's
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so many levels to this communication element maybe we should
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really start looking at these at hard skills not not the
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softer skills like they're termed as so to speak and such as
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like the data sets the numbers go completely out the window and it really
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opens up a can of worms of how much communication and skills within that that
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we are we are potentially missing as practitioners definitely there's a really
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good post not i'm not sure if you're familiar with derrick griffin who's a great
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physio and pain educator and
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also a great runner as well with this 222 marathons and things but he's.
15:22
He did a post the other day i think it was on a podcast this
15:25
is gonna backfire me i can't remember the name of the podcast now it's
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a new podcast but anyway i'll put it on the links but he was
15:30
was pointing out that traditionally what
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we refer to as the soft skills should really not be called
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soft skills because he says therapists will flock
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in their thousands to the latest ways to
15:44
you know work with a proximal hamstring tendinopathy or
15:46
something their manual therapy techniques and we regard kind of
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communication and open-ended questions and that stuff is kind of the soft skills
15:53
and like the mood and the lighting but really now we're realizing that they're
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not soft soft skills at all and this is what actually people lack and if anything
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people have got enough of the kind of we have protocols and the gold standard
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all that we need more of these soft skills so that kind of touches very much
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of what you've just said yeah absolutely i think.
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Realistically going into this further even from.
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Kind of relating to individuals or participants who come
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to come on to our sessions and relating to their care
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their care network or other stakeholders such as parents carers
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teachers really kind of brings out that communication
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to a whole new level just like if a
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patient was to come into a sports therapy setting you've got to
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bear in mind like how you not just communicate with that that patient
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in front of you but also the the network that they have
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around them and i I think really getting into kind
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of more of a community health with MoveMojo has
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really opened me up even more to we don't just
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have to communicate with a participant or patient or athlete in
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front of us we've also got to learn how to communicate to that wider audience
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of the other stakeholders in their relationship and for
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me especially on that website we worked really really
16:57
hard on that messaging to really be as open as
17:01
we can about what we're trying to do and ultimately
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within our sessions that's ultimately what what we try
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and do as well so in terms of that communication it's just
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opened me up to even more learning and i think
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it's it's massively undervalued undervalued within the sector
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fantastic great we should
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point out i'm just going to put in the notes here because i hate
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saying something that i'm not knowing what i'm talking about so i'm just putting the notes
17:24
it was the modern pain podcast with derrick griffin where
17:27
as well as a lot of other great stuff he mentions those soft
17:30
skills and it just just it's something so important so if
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you listen to this podcast then yeah yeah that's that's the one you need to
17:35
check out be interesting in that oh yeah i
17:38
just wanted to point out that we a year ago actually which that.
17:40
Flew by and we did have a focus let.
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Me put that on the screen so i can see we did have a special focus back
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in february 2023 which was where we combined mental health
17:50
and learning disabilities and we had the pleasure of having guests such
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as james chapman of all about the mind who's an instructor at mhfa
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and mental health first aid we also had alistair of the ld
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physio.com with the ld standing below disability and we
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also had ryan smith and jack howard who are the greatest hosts of
18:05
let's be frank podcast which is a mental health awareness podcast on
18:08
the platform in a safe space where they can stand up and speak about their
18:11
life struggles and mental health challenges um so if
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you're interested in this topic then i would recommend that you
18:17
as well as checking out move mojo but go back to
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those three as well and you'll hear a lot of the stuff being
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talked about and referred to including the difference between
18:27
in learning disabilities and learning difficulties and
18:30
also mental health as well something I want to chat with you
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about Rob if that's okay a lot
18:36
of people get confused don't they and this is one of the big problems I think
18:38
and why people with individuals with learning disabilities can feel so marginalized
18:43
we don't kind of realize that people with learning disabilities are individuals
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and they're actually more likely to have mental health issues which is even
18:53
more of a reason to to get them in, moving, having fun, isn't it?
18:56
Yeah, sure, absolutely. I think for us, as a program, we don't just look at
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the physical exercise element of it or the physical activity kind of.
19:06
As just a one singular, you know, silo point of view down at physical activity.
19:11
We like to think that our program is holistic.
19:13
Obviously, we are, you know, getting people moving through inclusive physical
19:18
activity, but the extra benefits of that is an increase in mental health, for sure.
19:22
And I think it's because a lot of these individuals feel very isolated within
19:26
their communities. There's not a lot in terms of offering.
19:30
And what we really pride ourselves selves on and
19:33
what i really wanted to develop because of that was game-based
19:36
exercise that involved working as a
19:39
team working with other individuals and then
19:42
also having like a social and a communication element attached
19:45
to that so we know the science behind you
19:48
know physical activity just exercise and increases dopamine with the
19:51
endorphin so to speak so you're going to get that positivity out
19:55
of that but also just being in a room with others being
19:57
able to talk catch up share things with but then work with
20:00
them and then also do game-based activities where
20:04
you're working together as a team we're not just seeing
20:06
like physical elements come out of this we're
20:09
also seeing positive mental health elements come out of this
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we're not psychologists we're not a psychology program but
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in terms of just alluding to more like a holistic model we're not
20:18
just seeing wins from that physiological side it's
20:21
also from that psychological side of improved mental mental
20:24
mental health so to speak and that's really what
20:27
we're we're all about you know about inclusiveness and that kind of holistic
20:32
model because we know that health isn't just a one-dimensional point of view
20:36
and especially exercise if we can combine it with that teamwork with those communications
20:40
with that game-based activity too we're also going to hit a lot of other elements within that as well.
20:47
Great information don't get people who are in the lounge if you've
20:50
got any questions suggestions for rob then do far away you're
20:53
probably down there writing things down on your pads and
20:55
getting your pencils out i know what you're liking there but chas allen has got
20:58
a comment here hi very interesting we have similar challenges managing long-term conditions
21:02
in the community definitely i mean
21:04
what we're talking about i think can be applied to lots of people who
21:07
are marginalized including the elderly we can have diagnostic
21:10
overshadowing with the young as well we just presume because of
21:13
their age whether it's young or old
21:16
or the fact that they may have have down syndrome that what we're
21:20
seeing is a consequence of that diagnosis and that's
21:22
the tragic thing we miss the symptoms which is someone
21:25
else came in we go straight away oh it looks like you might have this going on
21:28
you know it might have something wrong with your knee and it and it can have
21:31
deadly consequences it can have tragic consequences as as talked about by alistair
21:35
and the tragic case was brother and even the other day not to make it down i
21:39
don't think too much on the show but i read this and i was nearly sick i mean
21:43
there was a guy with down syndrome who was in hospital and and.
21:48
And somehow his notes said kneel by mouth and he was given kneel by mouth and
21:54
he was complaining and he was saying he was really hungry in the limited communication he had.
21:59
And the nurses even said, are you sure this guy's kneel by mouth?
22:03
And it's like, yeah, he's definitely don't worry about complaining.
22:05
And it was classic diagnostic overshadowing. They thought because he had Down
22:09
syndrome, the fuss he was making and his movements and that was just because
22:13
of Down syndrome. And it wasn't kneel by mouth at all.
22:15
They got paperwork mixed up and he died. he had
22:18
like six days without food and and it wasn't supposed to go up at all and it's
22:22
one of sadly many many situations where people with learning disabilities have
22:27
died because they've been treated differently rather than going well hold on
22:31
let's just it's not somebody with downs here's an individual who's yes got down
22:35
but they've got something else going on as well,
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it's pretty shocking not to bring it down but i mean and what you do rob is
22:40
all about this isn't it it's accepting that these are individuals first of all
22:44
it's john it's sally it's jane it's not not just, oh, another person with Down's
22:47
or another person with autism.
22:48
It must be quite, there must be some sad stories.
22:52
I don't want to draw on the sadness, but because obviously there's happy stories as well.
22:55
But you must see a lot of people who are neglected and not given opportunities.
22:59
And then finally they get to you.
23:01
Yeah, I think, yeah, wow, I was blown away by what that story was for sure.
23:08
Yeah, we try and flip that in terms of, yes, there is so much negativity.
23:14
And we try and flip back to the empowerment so for
23:18
example like yesterday i have my monday group
23:20
and i look forward to
23:23
that all weekend because i go in there and i have the most fun ever like i'm
23:28
playing games with people who i connect with you know christmas we all give
23:33
each other christmas cards for example my birthday we all brought me birthday
23:36
cake so you know we i think we try and flip that,
23:40
you know, to see obviously everyone as empowered persons who,
23:45
you know, come to our sessions.
23:46
And yes, we recognize the challenges, but we see the challenges as something
23:54
that we can overcome and we can adapt and we can make it as inclusive as we
23:59
can to really cater for all those different needs.
24:01
And I think that that.
24:04
Obviously that negative element kind of started to
24:07
flip in my mindset to like thinking what what can i do with
24:10
this hour i have this with this group and i
24:12
i started playing these different games really experimenting with different
24:15
sessions that i could do just after lockdown when i was trying to develop
24:18
a proof of concept and the parents and the carers were coming to to me saying
24:22
they look forward to this session all week you know they they love you they
24:27
love the sessions they love getting together they're just playing with their
24:30
friends and this this This is like the highlight of most of our participants' week, right?
24:37
And for something, for me, it was like, oh, I'm just doing game-based activities.
24:40
I'm just having fun, right?
24:42
Very structured S&C, but dosed in game-based environments.
24:47
And then it was almost like, wow, I'm actually creating more cultural and kind
24:50
of societal change with this.
24:53
Like, yes, there is so much neglect and negativity.
24:57
And I've heard stories similar to yours. I heard a terrible story today,
25:02
talking to someone, but I really try and focus on like what we can do in the
25:07
here and now and what can we affect and what positive change we can do.
25:10
And that's almost like why we have that philosophy of trying to empower those
25:16
persons, because it can be done.
25:19
Like we've demonstrated that it can be done with a proof of concept.
25:23
Yes we are launching as a startup but we
25:26
have a proof of concept to say that yes this this can be done and
25:29
we can affect change positively with this and yeah it really struck me from
25:34
the feedback that we were getting and just just even me as a coach just looking
25:39
so forward to turning up on a monday to be able to just involve and integrate
25:43
into the group myself even you know yeah definitely.
25:47
So yeah it is like you say it's very
25:50
much a question of empowering and showing
25:53
success so that we can educate everybody else and
25:56
i think this is where i'm excited for our listeners who like i
25:58
say are essentially either sports therapists or sports
26:01
rehab specialists or sports massage therapists and i'm
26:05
interested for you to give us some tips on for people
26:08
who are maybe already working with a individual with
26:11
a learning disability i know i'm conscious of on
26:14
saying that it could cover so much so so you can
26:17
pinpoint it a little bit more if necessary but what
26:20
are some tips for or maybe people who want to get into
26:23
that because they think i really want to do this maybe they've got a relative or they
26:26
know somebody thinking you want to help more these people what are some tips
26:29
that you can advise on when you are
26:32
working with people with a learning disability yeah absolutely
26:36
i think it's treating everyone as an individual firstly you know and And then
26:40
realizing that you can affect a lot of positive change with just adapting what
26:47
you're probably doing already in almost with general populations, so to speak.
26:54
But listening, working on that communication element. So really listening and
26:58
trying to understand what the situation is and what the ability is.
27:02
And then really adapting, like I said, what you're doing in general practice
27:07
at the minute, but adapting it.
27:09
And a big thing which has worked really for us, which I allude to all the time
27:12
is making it fun and making it engaging, like turning it into a game,
27:17
having different challenges within that, for example.
27:20
Example so like a squat right the
27:23
nhs use a derivative like a
27:26
sit to stand for example so i looked at
27:29
the sit to stand and made it more game based
27:32
so there's different variations we use so it could be a sit to stand
27:34
where they have to bend on the stand throw the ball up and
27:37
be able to score it through the hoop for example or they
27:40
have to throw the ball up and then knock down the targets like
27:43
the you know three skittles down at the end for example the hinge
27:46
the deadlift pattern we do in the chair so it
27:49
might be in the chair just bending down rolling the
27:52
ball down the bowling alley to the skittles for example and
27:56
then we might use the chair as a support and then they might try
27:58
and bowl hinge at the hips and bowl the ball down to the skittles so something
28:02
which has worked really really well is looking at
28:05
kind of general practice like squat push pull hinge
28:08
brace strength and conditioning principles adapting them
28:11
so working out right we need these fundamental
28:14
movements for life how do we adapt them okay this
28:18
is how we can adapt them like using the chair using different
28:21
aids so to speak and then
28:24
right now how do we gamify them okay and now
28:27
how do we communicate and listen and watch our individuals achieve
28:30
that and what are the outcomes of that do we need to go back and
28:33
adapt this even further right so that's.
28:37
That's an example of how i've done it to get to
28:40
where i'm at right now and something which practitioners can do
28:42
in their own environment is look at
28:45
kind of general fundamental movements use aids
28:49
adapt them and then fun gamify it
28:52
and then constant communication constant observation and
28:56
just see see if it is actually creating positive change excellent and
29:01
and you're saying that and i'm thinking and again we chatted briefly about
29:04
this but in theory the modern therapist we
29:07
know for example that one of the biggest problems in in
29:10
exercise prescription is is not clients and
29:13
patients will go away thank you very much give my money and
29:16
they just won't do it you know it's a terrible and and hopefully
29:20
therapists realizing now that when when patients or clients don't
29:23
do the exercises you can't just say oh well how do
29:26
they expect to get better then you know they didn't even do the exercises and
29:28
blame them we kind of try and turn it around and make make make the therapist
29:32
realize if they haven't done it's because of me i haven't either given them
29:36
something they can feasibly do or give them too much or maybe i haven't listened
29:40
to them enough and realize you know what the barriers they've got are so what
29:43
you're talking about is something that.
29:46
All therapists should really be doing making things more fun making
29:48
something that people are actually going to enjoy but i'm interested
29:52
what do you think in your experience could be
29:55
some of the fears that therapists have
29:58
in working with some of this population what do they fear could
30:01
go wrong in terms of reactions and do are
30:04
these fears justified or is it something that it can
30:07
be dealt with you know on an individual basis if something does go wrong
30:10
yeah definitely i think utilize your network
30:13
so obviously there's a whole integrated care board
30:16
or a whole stakeholder network around these
30:18
populations that we're talking about so you know
30:21
you can lean on other practitioners to you know such
30:24
as like understanding realistically what their
30:27
what the person's condition is what they can do what they
30:30
can't do you could also look at like you know.
30:33
Doctor's notes or physio's notes to actually understand the
30:36
whole process speaking with carers parents around
30:39
this to really get a full picture and then speaking and
30:42
listening to the actual person in front of you to see what
30:45
they can do what they can't do and I think you'd be
30:48
really surprised about what they know they can do what they want to
30:50
do and what they may struggle with right but then you've
30:53
got that whole network around that person too which you
30:56
can really lean on I know certainly for us like you know
30:59
communicating with parents who know them best or carers who
31:02
know them best day center staff who care for them
31:05
constantly if for example they were
31:08
to go for you know they had had an injury and they
31:11
saw a medical professional we would understand exactly
31:14
through the through the day
31:16
center staff what the what the professional
31:19
said and then we can adapt our session based on that advice
31:22
around that so to speak so you know
31:25
we use that whole network approach of that kind of integrated care
31:28
around the person but then also speaking to them understand
31:31
what they can do and what they can't do and i think that really
31:34
comes back from my experience within para sport previous to
31:37
this when i was with archery we did a
31:40
lot on the pathway with kind of people coming through battle back or the help
31:43
the heroes program who'd gone through quite a lot and really as a practitioner
31:48
you you could really it was really kind of a difference to see how much they
31:54
can actually do once you ask those open-ended questions and what people felt
31:58
comfortable to do with a disability.
32:00
And you'd be really really surprised with the capabilities
32:03
that that that people can have have amazing that's
32:07
great and and what about people who
32:10
are worried about working within their scope and maybe
32:13
insurance i mean what do
32:16
you know about that in terms of who they should contact should people contact
32:20
insurance companies and gary actually in the in the live lounge might be able
32:24
to work on this but if you are working with someone with a learning disability
32:26
does it put your insurance at risk if they're diagnosed with something what
32:30
do you know yeah i couldn't really couldn't really answer that to to be to be
32:33
honest gary might be the expert there.
32:34
I know certainly for us, we're insured as a physical activity provider for people
32:40
with disabilities or non-disabilities.
32:43
I know in terms of the qualifications, I,
32:45
you know we've got like postgraduate or degrees
32:48
within rehabilitation setting or strength and conditioning
32:51
so that might be a factor within it in terms
32:55
of the insurance yeah we're insured for that i wouldn't be
32:58
sure going from let's say a sports therapist to
33:01
to that special kind of population so to
33:03
speak you wait gary'll have an answer in the
33:06
comments if he's still there then he'll have an answer next up but it's obviously
33:09
something you need to check out and definitely not work outside of your scope
33:13
but there sounds like there's so much you can do if you just hey guess what
33:16
the answer is just communicate you know talk to the person if they can if they
33:20
can talk to you back and and let you know or talk to people who come with them.
33:25
Very similar ways to working with children in some
33:28
respect you know we don't alienate children just because they haven't
33:31
got the experience or the ability to voice what they
33:34
want because they're six or seven years old and we
33:36
don't turn them away but so why do we just turn away somebody who's you know
33:40
hasn't got the ability to talk like an adult just because you know they're learning
33:44
disabilities so fine right where are we we've got a fantastic 837 I've got loads
33:49
of things I want to ask you so with regards to Move Mojo regards.
33:55
Is there, are you going to help educate, is there a plan to help educate other
34:00
therapists and provide courses and things to give to share some of your experience?
34:05
Yeah, definitely. I think that's the way we're going.
34:08
I think the practitioners out there, there's not a lot on offer around this at all.
34:13
If there is anything from what I've done in terms of desktop research, I
34:16
know I learned these skills working
34:20
within para sport coming from other professional
34:24
sport settings into more like a para sport role
34:27
and then during COVID then coming
34:30
to work with SEND populations through COVID and
34:33
I've really kind of picked up these traits over the
34:36
last two years developed the curriculum developed the skills
34:39
from that from para sport experience and
34:42
then doing this for two two years but there isn't really
34:45
any qualifications or any learning through that it was more self-learning
34:49
through experience but then also being in a an ngb that had a para program to
34:53
learn off para coaches or other people within that para sport setting who had
34:57
years of experience within para sport but there is nothing out there in terms
35:03
of qualifying or giving anyone cpd to to do this,
35:08
let alone gamifying exercise or communicating sessions or communicating exercises.
35:15
You know, a really interesting one as well, like when we look at communicating,
35:19
it's not necessary always through kind of our voice.
35:23
We can kind of communicate those different elements through like constraints-based
35:27
approaches by, you know, just changing the sessions or using some different
35:30
colors or giving a different cue, for example.
35:32
There's so much scope that we see in terms of learning opportunities so we are
35:38
definitely looking at putting courses on to really educate practitioners on
35:42
everything that i've developed to really give back and be able to,
35:47
be able to further kind of this mission to
35:50
just get the move the the world moving more so to
35:53
speak amazing sounds good and obviously we'll keep
35:56
members updated sta members of
35:59
any courses that are coming up and i imagine if people
36:03
are interested in they can is there
36:06
a newsletter anything you're doing yet well they can definitely go to your website
36:08
can't they is there someone they can sign up for information about these things
36:11
or is it yeah definitely so we've got a monthly newsletter which will come out
36:15
start rolling from the end of march it'll come out every march if they just
36:18
go on to website press inquire now it'll direct to a type form just drop the
36:22
details into the type form and then you'll be able to subscribe to our monthly newsletter.
36:28
Excellent right so yes move mojo
36:31
i just gotta check yeah it's a move mojo.com of
36:35
course it is if you're listening to the podcast you can't see these screenshots here
36:38
but i'm just going to bring it up people are in the live manager join us live on
36:40
youtube and facebook let's just make that a little bigger so
36:43
yeah move mojo.com there's loads of information on there
36:46
i mean it enthuses you straight away it's inspiring and
36:50
there's videos on there there's like i say details all the
36:53
philosophies and mission statements and also
36:56
some really interesting facts i want to bring one of of the pages up that
36:58
I saved here and have you talk us through it it
37:01
just so simply talks about the difference between
37:04
what you're trying to put forward for people with learning
37:07
disabilities and what happens in exercise classes so I
37:10
mean it starts off at the top and then I'll let you describe what's underneath but
37:13
it says no one with a disability should feel excluded from exercising and
37:16
improving their health which sounds so obvious but what talk
37:20
us through how you chose and what you kind of point out underneath there
37:23
with the difference between exercise classes and move mojo yeah absolutely
37:27
so we did a a round of market research
37:30
so we used an independent researcher we got
37:32
100 parents and then we got 25 participants
37:36
with send so special educational needs
37:39
and realistically heard their views and we got interview based focus groups
37:45
we also sent out questionnaires so we got a load of data to really kind of capture
37:50
some of the pain points which which individuals within the community feel about
37:54
exercise or fitness in general.
37:58
Like I said, how daunting is it for myself and you to go into the gym?
38:03
I mean, even now, you know, even myself, it's like sometimes you just you do
38:08
do feel daunted, don't you? Just turning into a new gym or a new a new sports
38:13
club, which you're which you're unaware of. You're joining a new sport.
38:16
It's a daunting experience.
38:17
So we really wanted to understand what people were feeling.
38:21
And then we did market research into understanding the
38:24
market and what could be offered and what was being offered and there's
38:27
really nothing there for anyone with
38:31
a disability let alone a special educational needs
38:35
so we really wanted to understand what
38:38
people were going through and really design a purposely built product
38:41
for them and that's where we come up
38:44
with that comparison it's the the move mojo what we're
38:47
trying to push forwards versus what is
38:50
traditional exercise or traditional exercise classes that you'd probably see
38:54
down at your local gym or your local council leisure center so to speak versus
38:59
the movement that we are trying to trying to develop so we really wanted to
39:03
listen to to people within the community and really develop that product that would really kind of,
39:09
suit their their needs and really fit what what they were missing everyone really
39:14
understood the importance of physical activity and it really kind of speaks
39:18
volumes about what you were saying where people go to the therapist or the physio
39:22
and then don't do their exercises when they go it was like.
39:25
95 percent of people completely understood that physical activity
39:28
was good for them right however to be
39:31
able to achieve that was a completely different story and i
39:34
really go back to what i said at the beginning when we looked at the numbers
39:37
as well it was just so limited in terms of what was on offer and
39:40
then even if they you know even like
39:43
just a general offering down the down your local gym or your
39:46
local council authority what was on offer it was just nothing nothing
39:49
tailored or specific at all and it
39:52
really goes back to your question of why hasn't anyone done it before and
39:55
it's it's something that goes through my head every day especially now and I
40:00
really think it's the fact that I've had to lean on so much of my experience
40:04
within parasport and And then also my S&C career of constantly adapting exercises
40:08
and then having some really in-depth experience with like NGB,
40:14
IOC stuff, where I really got to be around the experts in para sport and exercise prescription.
40:20
Description and like i said this is
40:23
what i'm doing now is more challenging than me
40:27
working putting people on the podium at olympic or
40:30
paralympic kind of games so to speak because of
40:33
those different adaptions those different communication skills and those different
40:37
coaching abilities and i think we really wanted to purposely challenge the whole
40:42
concept of exercise and what is already out there with this new product so to
40:47
speak which can be offered to of the community and it's what the community really, really wants.
40:53
So like we kind of alluded to before
40:56
somebody who went on a course which
40:59
you provided talk about this communication and how to
41:02
gamify they're going to be learning lots
41:05
of skills which will help them with everyday clients as well it's going to be
41:08
something they can apply to anybody yeah so we delivered a course to british
41:13
archery on last last monday and that was out there at one of our instructor
41:18
coaching conferences and we put coaches through basically basically how to gamify a warmup.
41:23
So a basic ramp principle, raise, activate, mobilize, potentiate,
41:26
how to gamify it, how to make it fun for different audiences,
41:29
and then also how to adapt to make it inclusive through constraints-based approaches
41:34
for different coaching skills.
41:36
And it was an afternoon workshop just on warmups, for example,
41:40
let alone how a main section could look like.
41:43
And there's way more variables in a main session than there is in
41:46
something like a 10 minute warm-up at the start right but we
41:49
had some really good feedback from archery coaches who came on to
41:52
that and we're really looking at delving into other sports to try and help more
41:57
coaches but then also from that practitioner element of therapists those same
42:02
skill sets could be applied for sure and it's something that we're looking at
42:06
launching as well as our delivery towards the end of this year.
42:10
Sounds amazing, sounds great and it is interesting because at the end of the day,
42:14
i think it sounds so obvious that
42:18
as kids we learn through playing we learn all
42:20
of our skills and motor skills we don't sit down and say
42:23
right this is how you run this is how you crawl it's just you do
42:26
it to get from a to b and normally it's because there's something in which is going to
42:29
excite you and you do it and you learn it and then suddenly at
42:32
some point as you get older it turns from right
42:35
you're gonna do this now 10 times three times
42:38
what's looking in the mirror at yourself and feeling really
42:41
self-conscious and we expect it to work we wonder why people don't do
42:44
it but well i think even though that feels natural i
42:46
think the reason why some people find it so difficult therapists to
42:50
to do this is it's like a it's a void of information they
42:53
really don't know where to start and how to turn something to the game or maybe
42:55
they haven't got the confidence so it sounds like what you're going to be aiding
42:59
people is going to be really really useful and helpful so i'm looking forward
43:03
to hearing how it develops yes and i think i think just touching on the games
43:06
i it was during art when i worked for work within archery i really understood the power of,
43:13
like you said, how people learn through fun games and how much buy-in you can
43:18
get once you start putting a challenge on it, maybe a social value of having
43:22
to communicate work with other individuals, right?
43:26
How much that increases the like retention
43:30
the buy-in for example and then also the execution
43:33
of the task or the exercise because like
43:36
people generally get into the archery because
43:39
they don't like more kind of physical high
43:42
intensity sports for example right archery is mega
43:44
inclusive it's a great sport to be be a
43:47
part of but one of my challenges as being a strength and
43:50
conditioning coach within archery was to almost
43:53
break down some of those barriers and beliefs about snc and
43:57
doing the exercises and that's where the light bulb moment just came on about
44:01
three years ago whereas like how about we we experiment gamifying a lot of our
44:06
snc delivery and so really started experimenting on the pathway and it took
44:12
off massively to the point where where we were playing like cones and domes, for example,
44:17
for like a warm-up or like connect four, right?
44:21
Or ones where you'd have to run up and throw the hoop onto the target and then
44:27
run back. And then the next person goes a bit of a razor.
44:30
The buy-in to that was massive because it was hitting so many of those other
44:35
points in terms of engagement, in terms of fun, and it really took off from there.
44:39
And i could recommend it to any practitioner about
44:43
if there's a window of opportunity to try and gamify
44:46
stuff because it's going to increase the buy-in
44:49
retention and execution of what you're giving
44:52
to people excellent there was i'm
44:55
not sure whether you've ever been to serve the expo and in at
44:58
the nec normally in november's but we've got a we've
45:02
been there every year but with the last few years several years we've
45:04
had a stand with people speaking and there's one speaker a
45:08
immy tester who who's who's talking all about gamifying and stuff and she's
45:14
a wonderful therapist who's a great example of someone who learned traditional
45:17
skills and then was horrified being told especially through social media of
45:21
how a lot of what she learned had been terrible and and was about to quit i
45:25
don't think she won't be saying that but then fortunately.
45:28
Got in contact with the right people said whoa whoa whoa hold on we're not
45:31
saying throw everything out okay we're just going to tweak
45:34
things a little bit you're not doing this with your hands and she's totally
45:37
embraced it um and as also she's doing a
45:39
film of praise sports which really helps because that's all about game motivation and
45:43
eye contact visuals and she did a fantastic presentation i
45:46
mean full credit to her about all about gamifying stuff so
45:49
it's it's really well received so i think that'll
45:52
be something which um will be sought after this
45:54
year as well if you're around in november for therapy expo that'd be
45:57
great we'll have to let me know i'm getting out but yeah it's
46:00
a real massive theme i think and it'd be great to hear you've got some courses coming
46:03
out wonderful gary has come back to us as i promised
46:06
you would he actually came back about 20 minutes ago there's no insurance restrictions
46:08
for working with special populations however codes of conduct regarding chaperones
46:12
parents guardians for minors or vulnerable adults brilliant okay then thanks
46:16
gary maybe i could count on you wonderful where are we 10 minutes I want to
46:22
make sure that I don't keep my guests longer than I said they would be here.
46:26
So you mentioned the courses. There was another slide I wanted to bring up from
46:30
your website. I wanted to show how many I'll be able to get through.
46:31
I found this really great.
46:33
And like I say, people, we're using this on YouTube because people can join us and see them.
46:37
But if you're used to the podcast, then go to movemojo.com and you'll see all
46:40
this information here. I just wanted to bring this one up because I thought
46:42
I had some great information on it as well.
46:44
If you're used to the podcast, you can't see it, but it's a big slide which
46:47
says, We aim to create physical activity for life.
46:48
And it just talks about the participant journey and like i say it could be applied
46:54
to any population at all but particularly for people with a learning disability
46:58
you're going to need kind of more one-to-one attention but i love the way you
47:01
move from engage to develop to empower could you talk us through that kind of
47:04
journey and why you picked those words yeah absolutely so,
47:08
it was almost we were trying to create something
47:11
bigger than move mojo so
47:15
with everything that i've
47:18
done as a practitioner I have always tried to
47:21
empower the athletes that I work with that if I was to go and quit and never
47:27
come again they would have enough knowledge and enough skills to be able to
47:32
carry on being physically active for life so when I was always programming I would really.
47:39
Coach but almost coach not
47:43
just the exercise but the why the how behind that
47:46
and also give them the confidence so what
47:49
i really saw when i joined archery because it was such a decentralized program
47:54
where athletes would come on our pathway bi-monthly so every other month to
47:59
us that this empowerment was even more important being able to give our athletes
48:03
the tools though when we go away for a couple months,
48:06
can work through the program that I set and feel like they can own it from that
48:13
stage in terms of if we're not there, they're still working through it.
48:16
That also helps from a buy-in and a retention and an execution phase.
48:20
So really, I saw the power of that and really wanted to incorporate that into
48:25
the Move Mojo program as our endpoint.
48:28
So when participants participants leave us or
48:32
or move on from us so to speak they've
48:35
increased certain variables that will manage to
48:38
keep them physically active for life right so that's
48:42
our end point where people can leave us and feel
48:45
like they can join a sports club they feel more confident to
48:48
do physical activity or they understand
48:51
the fun of it so they're they can do it at home so
48:54
we want to give people those tools to be able to
48:57
do that and that's also integrating the bigger care
49:00
network of parents teachers social workers within
49:03
that frame so if mojo just stopped existing or people moved on developed to
49:08
a point where they didn't you know they they were they they they wanted to go
49:12
and do a sport like let's say boccia for example or archery then they have that
49:17
increased confidence and that understanding of fundamental movements to be able to achieve that.
49:23
With our starting point, it was really about breaking down barriers and engaging them.
49:28
So with our start point, going into the communities to engage persons who may
49:33
have not been ever engaged within a physical activity program before.
49:37
Four so really that communication that gamification
49:40
that engaging piece is really is really key
49:43
there to get people physically active to increase confidence
49:46
to look at certain belief systems around physical
49:50
activity and see if we can really really gain
49:52
that buy-in to come to our sessions and to engage in group.
49:55
Sessions and actually get moving then when
49:59
they actually come to us over the course of three months six
50:02
months maybe a year however long we deliver to them
50:05
for we look to increase fundamental movements you
50:08
know squat push pull hinge but through gamification
50:11
but most importantly we look to increase communication
50:15
social values confidence and then
50:18
a positive kind of positive view on
50:21
sport and physical activity so then it gets to that
50:24
empowerment stage which is a third like that stage which i
50:27
talked to you first which is where they have all those skills not
50:30
just physically but from a social communication confidence point
50:33
of view to then engage in some some form of physical activity for
50:36
life so ultimately what i'm striving for and what
50:38
we're striving for is something bigger than bigger than move
50:41
mojo and i think it's a really good
50:45
piece maybe for sports therapists or
50:48
or physios to look at is can we
50:51
empower the patient enough that they probably never come back to us
50:54
with that same injury again like can
50:57
we empower them that much on exercise rehab or
51:00
prehabilitation that we never see them you know with that same issue right rather
51:05
than that kind of reoccur in service for that same thing for example can we
51:09
really educate empower and develop them so they never come back for that for
51:13
that element you know so ultimately we you know we want almost that self-sufficiency
51:18
by the end of it so to speak.
51:20
Great yeah definitely most definitely and and
51:23
because once upon a time that would have been like oh but that's
51:26
terrible i need to see each patient eight times if possible have them coming
51:29
back forever and it's like that was the business model but i think hopefully
51:32
particularly because of covid and third person starting to talk more to each
51:36
other that we realize now that health care can't be based on the same model
51:40
as you know as yeah we'll kick into time and going well that's going to cost
51:44
you it just doesn't work with people you need to work at making that person feel,
51:48
more confident about their body their ability to do stuff
51:52
and and maybe not come back to see you but then be prepared that if they do
51:55
want to come back you're not going to turn them away which we were talking about
51:57
last week you know they may well love coming to see you and the journey might
52:00
go on forever but yeah it's a new business model which people should now be
52:06
getting on otherwise you know your business is going to dry up if you're just
52:09
working on everybody seeing you 10 times.
52:11
Yes absolutely i think that's really important for our end goal our end goal
52:15
is to get more more people into sport or more people physically active, right?
52:19
If we can get more people engaged in different varieties of sports,
52:23
joining a local sports club or, you know, going and doing physical activity
52:27
at home away from us, like that's our mission. We've got people moving more.
52:32
So that's, this is really key to what we strive to be able to do.
52:38
Engage people within some form of physical activity, develop fundamental movement
52:42
skills, social communication.
52:44
Confidence, and then that leads to an empowered life with physical activity
52:48
for hopefully the rest of their lives,
52:50
and i guess the massive knock-on effect from that which even helps you
52:53
even more in your mission is these people have the confidence to go out and
52:56
mix with the general community and then show that
52:59
yeah okay so i've got this learning disability but i'm still playing
53:02
football i'm still here having a beer with you at the day i'm having a cigarette i'm
53:05
getting pissed you know just because i've got a learning disability doesn't mean
53:08
i'm not human and i haven't got i can celebrate the good times
53:11
and i'm going to get grumpy at the bad times you know so and that
53:14
will help educate society and in turn mean that these people
53:17
aren't being marginalized and either feared or treated
53:19
like angels like little angels from heaven they're so sweet these
53:22
people when really they're just that's the last thing i want to hear so yeah
53:26
so inspiring really really cool thank you right it's 8 57 just to reiterate
53:31
again if you want the podcast and you want to follow or connect with robert
53:37
francis of move mojo then you can go along to the website which is movemojo.com.
53:43
You can whatever your preferred method is i mean all the links
53:46
on there but facebook and linkedin just type mood mojo instagram is
53:49
mood dot mojo and then twitter is mood underscore mojo
53:53
and obviously if you listen to the podcast and you've got further questions then
53:56
best place is go to youtube and leave some questions on there youtube is the
54:00
best in terms of shelf life it'll be there forever and it'll come up in google
54:03
searches so forget facebook nothing against well just facebook shelf life is
54:08
dead and twitter i don't know what it's for but youtube is the place and i will
54:11
see these comments and I will forward any questions to either Robert or anybody
54:15
else who I think can help you.
54:16
So feel free to keep the conversation going. That's the idea.
54:20
Right then we've reached that time once again before i forget next tuesday,
54:25
um if you are a support cast i'm going to join us live or people in
54:27
the live lounge next tuesday which will be march the 19th
54:31
and the topic is going to be talking about business models we're
54:34
going to be it's going to be transforming your healthcare business
54:37
model with special guest frank bendetto of the honey badger project it's something
54:41
i've talked about a couple of times in other episodes it really is this idea
54:44
of the days of where you could only help your patients or clients face-to-face
54:49
one-to-one in healthcare are limited because you're going to burn yourself out
54:53
the only way you can make more money is just see more people so.
54:56
Frank is an expert in in suggesting and helping
54:59
therapists understand how they can
55:02
be supporting their clients and patients at the same time even
55:05
if you're not seeing them so a hybrid sort of care where you could
55:07
be maybe helping through a spreadsheet or some kind of like something you
55:11
can do in the evening it's not because otherwise you're burning yourself out okay and
55:14
this is the reason why a lot of therapists physios sports therapists
55:17
are burning out and sadly we're seeing so many people need profession because
55:20
they really think the only way of making money your business model is
55:23
seeing more people and not earning anything when really
55:27
that's not what your patients need or what you need so that's gonna be it's
55:30
gonna be a great episode and like i say that'll be recording it live as always
55:32
next tuesday march 19th on either youtube or facebook or the sports therapy
55:37
association facebook open group but for tonight it just leads me to say So once
55:42
again, thank you very much to Robert Francis of Mood Mojo.
55:45
Thanks for your time, mate. Really appreciate it. Sure. Thanks, man. Appreciate it.
55:48
And thank you to the people in the live lounge who've joined us as well.
55:51
You make it all worthwhile because I've always done these things live for the
55:54
last 10 years. Run chat live or sports therapy association.
55:58
It's just, it's lovely to have a chat with people. And the feedback we get is
56:00
lovely because they just think it flows.
56:02
In my mind, it's not flowing at all. But the feedback we get is it's just a conversation.
56:05
We're just chewing the cud, chewing the fat, which is often a nice way to learn as well.
56:09
So thank you for joining us live. and thank you if you are listening to the
56:13
podcast then as always please leave a rating and review because it helps the
56:17
information from our great guests reach more people thanks to google it's all
56:20
based on reviews so please do that right hopefully see some of you next week
56:26
once again thanks for watching.
56:27
Music.