Latest / MUBI Podcast / Kelly Reichardt: THE MASTERMIND behind some of the best movies of the century

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Kelly Reichardt: THE MASTERMIND behind some of the best movies of the century · MUBI Podcast

• 0:00
  Heads up, this episode includes adult language and spoilers.
• 0:07
  You know, I remember this is how old I am.
• 0:10
  I remember waiting for the first McDonalds to be built, and it was like this idea of fast food was coming and there was all this excitement and we went on the night it opens, we went through a drive-through and we got hamburgers and they were like the greatest thing in the world.
• 0:26
  And then immediately, like a Subway appeared across the street and then it became four.
• 0:34
  And even as a kid, I remember thinking like, "Maybe this isn't good." That is filmmaker Kelly Reichardt.
• 0:43
  And after that childhood epiphany, she went on to make celebrated movies full of characters trying to drop out of a society they can sense maybe isn't good.
• 0:53
  The latest example is called The Mastermind, about a guy in 1970 Massachusetts, played by Josh O'Connor, who's got a wife, two sons and none of the direction of his peers.
• 1:03
  As his dad never tires of telling him.
• 1:06
  I saw Kipp's father today.
• 1:06
  He said Kipp has projects all over town.He spends all his time balancing books, scheduling on the phone.- Those are the tasks of the top man.
• 1:15
  - It's an idiotic way to spend your time. So he comes up with what feels to him like a better way
• 1:22
  to spend his time: plotting an art heist.
• 1:26
  to spend his time: Trust me, given it a lot of thought. I'm Rico Gagliano.
• 1:31
  to spend his time: Welcome back to the MUBI Podcast.
• 1:31
  to spend his time: MUBI's the global film company that champions great cinema.
• 1:36
  to spend his time: On this show, we tell you the stories behind great cinema.
• 1:38
  to spend his time: We are in the middle of a season about food on film, but we're taking a break from that to drop in this very, very special episode.
• 1:45
  to spend his time: It's my interview with Kelly Reichardt.
• 1:48
  to spend his time: Most critics will tell you she's one of the greatest living American filmmakers, and you're going to hear her tell me about her whole career.
• 1:56
  From the anger that motivates her: Society in movies are constantly telling us that this thing I'm talking about is a winning situation for everyone, and it's not a winning situation.
• 2:05
  From the anger that motivates her: It's a fuckin' losing situation.
• 2:08
  From the anger that motivates her: To the treacherous shoot for her Oscar nominated Meek's Cutoff, starring Michelle Williams.
• 2:13
  From the anger that motivates her: We pushed everyone too far in that film, and some people really went crazy in the desert.
• 2:17
  From the anger that motivates her: And I was like, you know, I'll just do whatever I want to do because clearly I'm never making another movie.
• 2:22
  From the anger that motivates her: We also get into her movies Old Joy and of course, The Mastermind, which The New York Times just named one of the top ten movies of the year and which is streaming right now on MUBI.
• 2:31
  From the anger that motivates her: It is funny and gripping and totally about modern America, despite being set in the 70s.
• 2:37
  From the anger that motivates her: I spoke to Kelly in October before a live audience at MUBI Fest in Berlin, Germany.
• 2:42
  From the anger that motivates her: Please welcome Kelly Reichardt.
• 2:47
  From the anger that motivates her: We started off talking about her childhood, which she says didn't exactly prime her for a career in cinema.
• 2:56
  From the anger that motivates her: I don't have a movie that got me into movie making per se.
• 3:00
  From the anger that motivates her: Sorry, I'm from Florida and I didn't grow up around art at all.
• 3:04
  From the anger that motivates her: But I do remember sitting in my grandparents house behind the TV line, which was like a piece of masking tape on the carpet and seeing Whatever Happened to Baby Jane.
• 3:14
  From the anger that motivates her: And there's a beach scene in that, and it's a black and white film.
• 3:19
  From the anger that motivates her: And I remember that seeing the beach scene in black and white was probably like the first impression, like, that film made on me, that someone was actually doing something, that you could make the beach look so different by putting it in black and white.
• 3:33
  From the anger that motivates her: - How old were you at that point?
• 3:33
  From the anger that motivates her: - I don't remember how old I was, but, you know, young enough that I was in my grandmother's nightgown, watching, with a Shirley Temple, watching Whatever Happened to Baby Jane? So, young.
• 3:47
  From the anger that motivates her: - Fancy.
• 3:47
  From the anger that motivates her: - Yeah.
• 3:48
  From the anger that motivates her: I like how you're like, "I'm from Florida, so I have no art in my life." It's like there's art in Florida! I grew up in North Miami in Broward County in a law enforcement family.
• 3:59
  From the anger that motivates her: And my dad did listen to jazz, so there was that.
• 4:02
  From the anger that motivates her: But it was-- put it this way my sister, who I love, moved into a house in her adult life, not where she lives now.
• 4:10
  From the anger that motivates her: And the art on the wall is what the people left there before she moved in.
• 4:14
  From the anger that motivates her: So we're not like, totally, it's not an art family, I would say.
• 4:19
  From the anger that motivates her: Although that is fascinating because my next questions are about your first film, River of Grass.
• 4:23
  From the anger that motivates her: I didn't know any of what you just told me, and it's all in River of Grass.
• 4:26
  From the anger that motivates her: I mean, there is a cop...
• 4:28
  From the anger that motivates her: - Who loves jazz.
• 4:28
  From the anger that motivates her: - Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 4:31
  From the anger that motivates her: Actually, I have a clip of River of Grass, believe it or not, to play.
• 4:37
  From the anger that motivates her: This is four minutes into the movie, and I feel like there's a lot about your oeuvre that is there right away.
• 4:46
  From the anger that motivates her: It's a scene that starts with a shot of the Florida Everglades, tall grasses swaying by a stream.
• 4:52
  From the anger that motivates her: Then shots of two people fishing in the stream.
• 4:55
  From the anger that motivates her: And then a sudden swish pan...
• 4:59
  From the anger that motivates her: to a four lane highway just a few feet away.
• 5:01
  From the anger that motivates her: That's when we hear the main character in a voiceover, as we see views from the car of more roads and construction sites and highway medians.
• 5:10
  From the anger that motivates her: People used to think this area was uninhabitable,but more and more it's becoming civilized.And they say that within two years there will be a shopping center every 15 miles. Right away, it's civility versus nature.
• 5:28
  From the anger that motivates her: Shots of nature, and then a swift pan to civility barreling its way in the form of a road through nature.
• 5:36
  From the anger that motivates her: Does that come from you living in Florida?
• 5:39
  From the anger that motivates her: Was that happening as you were growing up?
• 5:40
  From the anger that motivates her: Well, it was, we actually when my parents got divorced, my mom moved to the Everglades.
• 5:47
  From the anger that motivates her: It was a swamp with a house, and horrible.
• 5:51
  From the anger that motivates her: But the last time I went there, I tried to find that house and I never got to any sense of the Everglades.
• 6:00
  From the anger that motivates her: I drove and drove and drove and it was just housing development after housing development, there was-- you would never have known it was a swamp.
• 6:07
  From the anger that motivates her: - It was gone.
• 6:07
  From the anger that motivates her: - It was gone. Yeah.
• 6:09
  From the anger that motivates her: So I did have a feeling, you know, maybe this isn't a good thing for whatever reason.
• 6:17
  From the anger that motivates her: Well, that's going to be my next question is when you make this movie, which is 94, is that?
• 6:22
  From the anger that motivates her: Yeah, we I think I made it in 93 and it came out in 94.
• 6:25
  From the anger that motivates her: - Did you--- Came out early. Yeah.
• 6:29
  From the anger that motivates her: To what extent did you know this is going to be part of my project?
• 6:34
  From the anger that motivates her: This is something I'm going to explore a lot in movies.
• 6:38
  From the anger that motivates her: - That theme.
• 6:38
  From the anger that motivates her: - Who knows what I was thinking.
• 6:41
  From the anger that motivates her: I had a deep desire to get out of Florida and had an idea that things were happening elsewhere.
• 6:47
  From the anger that motivates her: I'm a great complainer and I like to-- So it's probably like I just thought of it as complaining about what I saw as crap, or whatever, you know?
• 6:58
  From the anger that motivates her: But it wasn't like an agenda of some sort.
• 6:58
  From the anger that motivates her: I would say.
• 7:02
  From the anger that motivates her: So really, it was just like, this is lame.
• 7:02
  From the anger that motivates her: So I'm going to talk about it basically.
• 7:07
  From the anger that motivates her: Yeah. Or it's not just lame, it's bad.
• 7:10
  From the anger that motivates her: You know, it's-- We used to drive from Miami to Alta Montana when I was a kid, and we would take these camping trips.
• 7:19
  From the anger that motivates her: I can remember being on the highway and, like, wild horses, like running near us and stuff like that and being at the local gas station.
• 7:26
  From the anger that motivates her: And I've kept those drives going up till just after my dog died.
• 7:30
  From the anger that motivates her: And, I mean, it's just endless sprawl from corner to corner of the country, and you just have this feeling of like a loss, you know, and just how completely capitalism swallowed individual businesses or made us somehow the population seems okay with like, vacationing near an eight lane highway and going to Applebee's restaurant, like a chain store, or having one radio station that goes used to like wait and tune in the radio station in the state you got to, and y'know and that was like an exciting thing to find the local radio station.
• 8:11
  From the anger that motivates her: Which doesn't exist anymore.
• 8:13
  From the anger that motivates her: For that matter you used to have to stop all the time and wash the bugs off your windshield, and insects don't exist anymore.
• 8:21
  From the anger that motivates her: You could drive cross-country without ever cleaning your windshield now.
• 8:25
  From the anger that motivates her: Your car used to be covered in bugs.
• 8:28
  From the anger that motivates her: So it's just like, I have a feeling of like, my team losing and something being swallowed up that somehow, like, I guess enough of the country or the world in lots of places is okay with, or just doesn't...
• 8:44
  From the anger that motivates her: - It takes it like this is what we get.
• 8:44
  From the anger that motivates her: - Like it might be imposed on them.
• 8:48
  From the anger that motivates her: Yes. It's mediocrity to the extreme and even below mediocrity.
• 8:54
  From the anger that motivates her: And so anyway, now I'm complaining.
• 8:57
  From the anger that motivates her: See what I said? I'm a great complainer.
• 8:59
  From the anger that motivates her: Well, this actually maybe leads me to the kind of characters you put at the fore of your movies.
• 9:04
  From the anger that motivates her: Who, it's no big secret, I think that a lot of your films and you've talked about this, these are loners, they're outsiders, they're people who don't fit into society.
• 9:12
  From the anger that motivates her: I have a quote here from a magazine called Indie Film Hustle.
• 9:16
  From the anger that motivates her: They said you're "more interested in glimpses of" what you describe"as people passing through drifters, loners and outcasts"relegated to the margins of society,"trapped in a restless search for a better life." And I've heard you also call your characters"characters who don't have a safety net." But I will say, like all respect to you and to Indie Film Hustle, I think it's even more than that.
• 9:37
  From the anger that motivates her: They not only don't have a safety net, a lot of, especially your male characters, reject safety nets when they're offered to them.
• 9:44
  From the anger that motivates her: It's almost like by design they want to be outsiders, and I'm wondering where that archetype came from.
• 9:52
  From the anger that motivates her: It's not like society imposed it on them.
• 9:55
  From the anger that motivates her: Society did impose it on-- Society in movies are constantly telling us that this thing I'm talking about is a winning situation for everyone.
• 10:04
  From the anger that motivates her: And it's not a winning situation.
• 10:06
  From the anger that motivates her: It's a fucking losing situation.
• 10:09
  From the anger that motivates her: For a lot of people, especially if you're interested in beauty.
• 10:13
  From the anger that motivates her: You know, there's less individualism than ever.
• 10:16
  From the anger that motivates her: I mean, I guess I'm depicting loners and people that fall outside the system, which for a time in America was embraced.
• 10:23
  From the anger that motivates her: Right?
• 10:26
  From the anger that motivates her: Isn't like the whole idea of America is supposed to be like, you're going to be the individual.
• 10:32
  From the anger that motivates her: And I've just been reading, weirdly, Benjamin Franklin's autobiography, I mean, what an idiosyncratic person.
• 10:39
  From the anger that motivates her: But that is not really what is held in high esteem.
• 10:46
  From the anger that motivates her: I mean, I had dinner the other night with some 20 year olds, my friend's kids, and we were trying to explain to them that there was a time when, like, if you had a trust fund or you had any money, you tried to hide it and it was just so uncool to have money.
• 11:02
  From the anger that motivates her: And how when I was coming up, we didn't think of making films like they would support us.
• 11:08
  From the anger that motivates her: It was never going to give us a lifestyle, and these kids were just completely like,"What are you talking about?" Like they said, everyone they know, they all want to make money.
• 11:19
  From the anger that motivates her: And the idea of selling out was like completely off their radar.
• 11:25
  From the anger that motivates her: They were eye rolling to us, just like, "What are you talking about?" I feel what you're saying.
• 11:29
  From the anger that motivates her: In defense of youth, though, it's like it's increasingly hard to do anything without large amounts of money.
• 11:37
  From the anger that motivates her: Completely. I'm not laying it at their doorstep at all.
• 11:41
  From the anger that motivates her: I'm just saying that somebody's done something very bad.
• 11:48
  From the anger that motivates her: No, I don't mean to lay it at the feet of the youth, like this is what we gave them.
• 11:52
  From the anger that motivates her: So I am drawn to people that recognize that it's not a system that they want to be part of, and want to exist outside of it, or can't be a part, can't get a toehold in.
• 12:06
  From the anger that motivates her: There was an interview that I saw with you where you said that you like having a project because it keeps you from having to deal with all the stuff you have to deal with when you don't have a project.
• 12:16
  From the anger that motivates her: And the stuff that you mentioned were things like opening the mail and applying for credit cards, which does not seem like huge, insurmountable obstacles.
• 12:25
  From the anger that motivates her: So like I'm wondering to what extent you are like a high functioning version of the characters on screen who, like you, make movies so you can drop out of society for a while with like a bunch...
• 12:34
  From the anger that motivates her: It's cute that I was talking about mail because when did you last get mail?
• 12:38
  From the anger that motivates her: No, I'm just like a cranky old lady.
• 12:42
  From the anger that motivates her: This is like the guy, the old Muppet guys in the balcony.
• 12:47
  From the anger that motivates her: - Statler and Waldorf?
• 12:47
  From the anger that motivates her: - Yes, exactly.
• 12:49
  From the anger that motivates her: - You're both.
• 12:49
  From the anger that motivates her: - I liked having a human pick up a phone.
• 12:53
  From the anger that motivates her: I don't like talking to a robot or a robot, telling me how much they appreciate me.
• 12:57
  From the anger that motivates her: I like when you actually can't get through to a human.
• 13:00
  From the anger that motivates her: Or... I liked going to the post office.
• 13:00
  From the anger that motivates her: Things that, like, hardly exist now.
• 13:06
  From the anger that motivates her: I like going to the pharmacy.
• 13:06
  From the anger that motivates her: I don't want to get my drugs in the mail.
• 13:11
  From the anger that motivates her: I don't even want to go to the weed store.
• 13:12
  From the anger that motivates her: I want to, like, meet my friend's brother and go through his suitcase.
• 13:17
  From the anger that motivates her: - I don't like...
• 13:17
  From the anger that motivates her: - Hang out for like a half hour talking about Dungeons and Dragons.
• 13:22
  From the anger that motivates her: Not that, but, but, I mean, I don't know if people outside of America realize how much, I mean, rents are high everywhere.
• 13:32
  From the anger that motivates her: I think cost of living is high everywhere.
• 13:36
  From the anger that motivates her: But people live by trying to get health insurance in America.
• 13:40
  From the anger that motivates her: And if you don't have a job, you probably don't have health insurance, and that is especially when you become my age, just the struggle for health insurance is a full time obsession for people, and I live in a rich country.
• 13:56
  From the anger that motivates her: - Yeah.
• 13:56
  From the anger that motivates her: - You know?
• 13:57
  From the anger that motivates her: Let's pivot to a different topic.
• 13:59
  From the anger that motivates her: 'Cause I could go on and this is going to be a great podcast.
• 14:03
  From the anger that motivates her: Yeah, no, it will.
• 14:04
  From the anger that motivates her: You guys brought your sleeping bags, right?
• 14:06
  From the anger that motivates her: Believe me my wife is in the audience she'll tell you that you and I can complain all day long.
• 14:11
  From the anger that motivates her: But for the sake of this audience, we shan't.
• 14:13
  From the anger that motivates her: After this movie, your first film, there's like a ten year period where you're not making movies and you've said that you spent this time kind of making Super 8 movies...
• 14:23
  From the anger that motivates her: It's not that I wasn't trying.
• 14:24
  From the anger that motivates her: Right. Well, you said that you spent your time, this is what I'm curious about.
• 14:27
  From the anger that motivates her: Like fucking up.
• 14:27
  From the anger that motivates her: You spent your time, like, doing stuff.
• 14:30
  From the anger that motivates her: And I mean, to be honest, like, the 90s was not a nice time for women to make films.
• 14:35
  From the anger that motivates her: It was not an open door and all the groovy male filmmakers, it was not hospitable to women.
• 14:39
  From the anger that motivates her: It was unhospitable to women.
• 14:43
  From the anger that motivates her: There's a reason there's not a lot of, when you look at those decades that women aren't making films.
• 14:49
  From the anger that motivates her: So I was always trying to make a film during that time, but I could not.
• 14:54
  From the anger that motivates her: So I would say on the flip-side of it, I just kept working.
• 14:59
  From the anger that motivates her: And I went back to Super 8 and I learned how to edit, and I just practiced should I ever get the chance, and made things that were small enough that I could fuck up and no one would care or see them.
• 15:14
  From the anger that motivates her: And so that I would say, is like maybe what I was probably talking about and that I just was consuming a lot of films and learning the history of film.
• 15:27
  From the anger that motivates her: And, you know, as I said, I grew up not being exposed to a lot of stuff besides like Day of the Dolphin and the Pink Panther movies, you know?
• 15:36
  From the anger that motivates her: So I was in Boston at the time, and then in New York, two cities where you can, there's just art house films, and you can see everything projected you'd ever want to see.
• 15:47
  From the anger that motivates her: It was like sort of my schooling time.
• 15:47
  From the anger that motivates her: Self schooling time.
• 15:53
  From the anger that motivates her: The other thing that I hear happened in that ten year span is you had some sort of momentous trip to visit the places where In Cold Blood happened.
• 16:03
  From the anger that motivates her: You took like a road trip down Route 50.
• 16:07
  From the anger that motivates her: Route 50 goes across east to west.
• 16:10
  From the anger that motivates her: It's like the last two lane highway.
• 16:11
  From the anger that motivates her: Why that movie and why that route?
• 16:11
  From the anger that motivates her: 'Cause it feels like that makes sense.
• 16:16
  From the anger that motivates her: I took a lot of road trips.
• 16:16
  From the anger that motivates her: I'd just drive around the country a lot.
• 16:21
  From the anger that motivates her: And then at that time, I had my dog and I take her.
• 16:25
  From the anger that motivates her: So, yeah, I thought I'd go out to Kansas where In Cold Blood took place and just, you know, see if I could find the house or find various things.
• 16:35
  From the anger that motivates her: The courthouse.
• 16:36
  From the anger that motivates her: But before I went, my friend Todd Haynes had moved to Portland and I was working on films.
• 16:43
  From the anger that motivates her: I was working in the art department on films, and I had worked on Todd's film Poison, and we became friends and I went out to see him, and I met John Raymond, writer of The Half Life, and he gave me The Half Life.
• 16:59
  From the anger that motivates her: And I got to Kansas, and I was finishing The Half Life in the motel room that first day there.
• 17:05
  From the anger that motivates her: And I ended up getting really distracted by The Half Life.
• 17:08
  From the anger that motivates her: And I wrote John and asked him if he had any short films, 'cause at that time I was just making, like trying to do narrative on Super 8.
• 17:19
  From the anger that motivates her: I think I asked him if he had a story that took place outside 'cause I wouldn't have any lights and that I could write a dog into 'cause I had this dog that could never be left alone.
• 17:29
  From the anger that motivates her: And he sent me Old Joy.
• 17:31
  From the anger that motivates her: So I detoured from the In Cold Blood trip, and I went out to LA and my friend was working on Top Model and he got me a job on Top Model as a so-called writer.
• 17:47
  From the anger that motivates her: And I worked on that so that I could have time to write this script for Old Joy.
• 17:55
  From the anger that motivates her: Wait a minute, is this Top Model the reality show?
• 17:57
  From the anger that motivates her: Yeah.
• 17:59
  From the anger that motivates her: Season one. Season two.
• 18:03
  From the anger that motivates her: So are we going to see some influence ofTop Model season two on your development?
• 18:08
  From the anger that motivates her: No. At that point I was teaching at NYU, a place I was very ill suited to, and I really disliked teaching there.
• 18:18
  From the anger that motivates her: So I took this semester off, but worked on Top Model, and that allowed me to make some money so that I could go to Portland and scout for Old Joy.
• 18:32
  From the anger that motivates her: We've got a clip of Old Joy that I want to play, and I want to play it after one more influence that you've mentioned, which was a Apichatpong Weerasethakul's movie Blissfully Yours.
• 18:40
  From the anger that motivates her: I wanted to play a clip of it, but it's bizarrely hard to find.
• 18:44
  From the anger that motivates her: But what about that movie so captured you at that moment?
• 18:48
  From the anger that motivates her: Well, I wrote the script for Old Joy-- By the way, my influences so far, we got the Pink Panther and Top Model.
• 18:57
  From the anger that motivates her: Yeah. Pretty good.
• 18:59
  From the anger that motivates her: - I see it all.
• 18:59
  From the anger that motivates her: - Right.
• 19:00
  From the anger that motivates her: I went back to New York and Queens, where I had an apartment, and I had written the script, and I was showing it to my friends, and all my friends were like, there's not really a movie there.
• 19:11
  From the anger that motivates her: Like, this just isn't a movie.
• 19:13
  From the anger that motivates her: And then I showed it to one of my friends who lived upstairs from me in Queens, who's like a real cinephile.
• 19:21
  From the anger that motivates her: And I came home one night and in a plastic bag on my door was a VHS copy of Blissfully Yours.
• 19:29
  From the anger that motivates her: And I watched that and I was like, okay, it is a movie.
• 19:32
  From the anger that motivates her: Like, I can do this.
• 19:33
  From the anger that motivates her: Like, it just kind of gave me a kind of permission.
• 19:35
  From the anger that motivates her: I mean, I was gonna do it anyway, but it just was great to see.
• 19:40
  From the anger that motivates her: I mean, I haven't seen it because I was tracking it down for this interview I couldn't find it and, I'm assuming it seems from its trailer, which you folks are welcome to go and find on YouTube that it is set in kind of jungle or forest.
• 19:53
  From the anger that motivates her: - Yeah, as many of his films are.
• 19:53
  From the anger that motivates her: - Yes.
• 19:55
  From the anger that motivates her: And it's like it seems very slow paced.
• 19:55
  From the anger that motivates her: It's kind of a romance.
• 19:59
  From the anger that motivates her: - What about it, I guess grabbed you?
• 19:59
  From the anger that motivates her: - I guess just the...
• 20:03
  From the anger that motivates her: They were people, in this case in the jungle, mine were people in an old growth forest who had past relationships and were just sort of finding their way in nature.
• 20:18
  From the anger that motivates her: And the deeper they get into nature, how it affects how open they are or what's fearful in a city versus what's fearful in silence of nature, and how the quiet could build tension as opposed to like, a pounding soundtrack.
• 20:40
  From the anger that motivates her: But even when I was making Old Joy, everyone, apparently not to my face, but later, I was told, kept saying like they had, the crew and all, had bets going of whether or not this could really be a movie.
• 20:50
  From the anger that motivates her: And so, you know...
• 20:52
  From the anger that motivates her: but I was confident after seeing Blissfully Yours.
• 20:56
  From the anger that motivates her: And she was right to be.
• 20:58
  From the anger that motivates her: How Old Joy set Kelly Reichardt on a slow, quiet path to acclaim.
• 21:03
  From the anger that motivates her: And how it finally led to The Mastermind, coming up in just a minute.
• 21:05
  From the anger that motivates her: Stay with us.
• 21:14
  From the anger that motivates her: All right, everybody MUBI is the global film company that champions great cinema, bringing it to you wherever you are in as many ways as we possibly can.
• 21:21
  From the anger that motivates her: We stream movies, we produce them, we distribute them in cinemas.
• 21:24
  From the anger that motivates her: Movies from any country, from legendary filmmakers to brilliant first timers, we've always got something new for you to discover.
• 21:30
  From the anger that motivates her: And I want to tell you about something we've cooked up that you can discover not on a screen, but on the beautiful printed page.
• 21:37
  From the anger that motivates her: It's the companion book to the movie you're going to hear us talk about in the next act of this episode,The Mastermind.
• 21:43
  From the anger that motivates her: The book is called, cunningly, The Mastermind.
• 21:46
  From the anger that motivates her: Like Kelly's films, it is, first of all, beautiful to behold.
• 21:49
  From the anger that motivates her: It's a box set of four booklets in a slipcase, and it documents the making of this great movie.
• 21:55
  From the anger that motivates her: It is full of personal reflections, photographs and fragments of memory from Kelly and her collaborators.
• 22:01
  From the anger that motivates her: There's also an exploration of Arthur Dove, the real life American abstract painter whose paintings get snatched in the movie, gorgeous reproductions of his work.
• 22:10
  From the anger that motivates her: This thing is incredibly cool, and you can order it now for delivery in 2026.
• 22:15
  From the anger that motivates her: Head to mubieditions.com to snag a copy and to peruse the rest of our MUBI Editions book offerings.
• 22:22
  From the anger that motivates her: You can also head to mubi.com to subscribe and stream The Mastermind, along with a bunch of Kelly's other films.
• 22:28
  From the anger that motivates her: We've got all the links and info you need for all of this in the show notes of this episode.
• 22:33
  From the anger that motivates her: Speaking of which, let's get back to the conversation and the episode.
• 22:42
  From the anger that motivates her: So Kelly Reichardt's second feature,Old Joy, is about two old friends.
• 22:46
  From the anger that motivates her: Mark, who has a career and a family, and Kurt, a loner.
• 22:49
  From the anger that motivates her: They decide to get together for the first time in years to hike to a natural hot springs in the middle of the Cascade Mountains.
• 22:56
  From the anger that motivates her: In this scene, they find it, get stoned, and as Mark settles into a rustic bath.
• 23:02
  From the anger that motivates her: Kurt suddenly starts massaging his shoulders.
• 23:05
  From the anger that motivates her: Hey, what's going on?Just relax man.- Just settle in.
• 23:15
  From the anger that motivates her: - All right. Mark is tense, but slowly relaxes, his hand gripping the side of the bath goes limp and floats palm up in the bathwater.
• 23:27
  From the anger that motivates her: For a long time we're close on his face and the sound of burbling spring water.
• 23:32
  From the anger that motivates her: Until Reichert cuts to a wider shot of rain falling in the woods outside.
• 23:39
  From the anger that motivates her: And then to a flowing stream.
• 23:47
  From the anger that motivates her: I love that scene, that's just a heartbreaking moment of friendship.
• 23:50
  From the anger that motivates her: Reichert edits her movies.
• 23:52
  From the anger that motivates her: So I asked her how she put the sequence together.
• 23:54
  From the anger that motivates her: Do you remember finding that structure of it? It's all close-ups.
• 24:00
  From the anger that motivates her: And then going from those close-ups of people to the progressively larger shots of water, basically.
• 24:09
  From the anger that motivates her: It's funny because Justine Kurland, the photographer, she did a book of people in nature, very Pacific Northwest, and it was her photo book that John wrote Old Joy for.
• 24:21
  From the anger that motivates her: And when she saw the film, it really stuck in my mind, she really hated the shot of the hand so much turning over.
• 24:29
  From the anger that motivates her: "I can't believe that was so heavy handed.
• 24:29
  From the anger that motivates her: I can't believe you..." So whenever I see that scene, that's all I think.
• 24:34
  From the anger that motivates her: - Really?
• 24:34
  From the anger that motivates her: - Yeah.
• 24:35
  From the anger that motivates her: But, you know, by design, you are going to get be intimate with them and get in them.
• 24:40
  From the anger that motivates her: And then, I mean, before this, we're in the, in the bigger setting, and then we go into their little world and then we...
• 24:49
  From the anger that motivates her: I'm not really good at talking about the films, to be honest.
• 24:52
  From the anger that motivates her: - Like the undercurrents of what...
• 24:52
  From the anger that motivates her: - I'll say...
• 24:55
  From the anger that motivates her: I love the idea that it's like that one shot of the hand falling off the side of the bath is too heavy handed.
• 25:01
  From the anger that motivates her: Like for those who haven't seen this movie, that's the climax of the film.
• 25:04
  From the anger that motivates her: Yeah, like that's as crazy heavy duty as it gets.
• 25:07
  From the anger that motivates her: And apparently I went too far.
• 25:10
  From the anger that motivates her: You're like. It's like an explosion as far as she's concerned.
• 25:14
  From the anger that motivates her: That's amazing.
• 25:15
  From the anger that motivates her: There's also I mean, this is your second feature film now, I'd say another undercurrent we haven't even gotten into yet in a lot of your films is this they're very feminist films, and your second film is about two men, and I'm wondering if that occurred to you at the time or, like what? Why?
• 25:30
  From the anger that motivates her: That was the thing that you felt was the next one.
• 25:33
  From the anger that motivates her: In John's story, there were really no women.
• 25:37
  From the anger that motivates her: So I married the guy in the tub.
• 25:41
  From the anger that motivates her: He has a wife in the film now, and she's pregnant and they're supposed to go shopping for a crib and stuff.
• 25:48
  From the anger that motivates her: And this other character, his old friend, comes into town and he kind of ditches his wife and goes off with his friend.
• 25:56
  From the anger that motivates her: So the women are not invited, and that's why they're not in the film.
• 26:01
  From the anger that motivates her: They're not invited on the camping trip.
• 26:01
  From the anger that motivates her: It's very exclusive.
• 26:04
  From the anger that motivates her: Is that what attracted you to that then, as a feminist, this idea that they're purposely kind of excluding.
• 26:10
  From the anger that motivates her: Well, yeah, that wasn't in John's story.
• 26:13
  From the anger that motivates her: So that was something I put into the story.
• 26:16
  From the anger that motivates her: But I think you've made like this heartbreaking portrait to me as a man.
• 26:20
  From the anger that motivates her: Like watching that because this has happened I think a lot of men in the room could probably identify with this, is that you do lose touch over time with your friends.
• 26:28
  From the anger that motivates her: Women traditionally like, hang on to those relationships and men just let them go.
• 26:32
  From the anger that motivates her: And I feel like you've hit on something, but it's like for your second film as a feminist, to be going for that.
• 26:38
  From the anger that motivates her: Well, it kind of worked out for me because people didn't really know who I was, and people thought Kelly was a man.
• 26:43
  From the anger that motivates her: - And so it...
• 26:43
  From the anger that motivates her: - Wow!- It opened some doors, by accident.
• 26:46
  From the anger that motivates her: - Really?
• 26:48
  From the anger that motivates her: Yeah. Everywhere I went, they were like,"Oh, wait, what?" Yeah.
• 26:52
  From the anger that motivates her: So that was good.
• 26:54
  From the anger that motivates her: - Yeah.
• 26:54
  From the anger that motivates her: - Wow. So you...
• 26:55
  From the anger that motivates her: They thought you were like, an Iron John type maybe.
• 26:58
  From the anger that motivates her: Yeah. Like something. Yeah.
• 26:59
  From the anger that motivates her: Guys finding themselves in the wilderness.
• 26:59
  From the anger that motivates her: That's amazing.
• 27:02
  From the anger that motivates her: Well, let's go really quickly before we get to The Mastermind.
• 27:05
  From the anger that motivates her: Meek's Cutoff, addressing some of the similar things.
• 27:09
  From the anger that motivates her: First, I just want to say it opens with shots of pioneer people, many of them women, doing chores in like, a river, I believe.
• 27:17
  From the anger that motivates her: And you have said that you love filming chores and process.
• 27:21
  From the anger that motivates her: - Yes.
• 27:21
  From the anger that motivates her: - And I wonder why that is.
• 27:23
  From the anger that motivates her: - I love a chore.
• 27:23
  From the anger that motivates her: - Why?
• 27:25
  From the anger that motivates her: First of all...
• 27:27
  From the anger that motivates her: I don't know. It's very calming.
• 27:27
  From the anger that motivates her: You can achieve it.
• 27:30
  From the anger that motivates her: Most chores-- and I just, I like watching people do stuff, and chores are good.
• 27:37
  From the anger that motivates her: And they're different in different times with the chores are so in, Meek's, they're doing chores near a river, and then they're going to be without water for the rest of their journey, which is problematic.
• 27:49
  From the anger that motivates her: - Yeah.
• 27:49
  From the anger that motivates her: - Interesting.
• 27:50
  From the anger that motivates her: It's like they really need water, and they're just like using it as a tool.
• 27:53
  From the anger that motivates her: Yeah, they don't know it's their last time seeing water.
• 27:56
  From the anger that motivates her: It's interesting. You said also that you like, instead of rehearsing very often you have your actors do the chores that their characters would do.
• 28:05
  From the anger that motivates her: What did you have Michelle Williams...
• 28:09
  From the anger that motivates her: We had 'Pioneer Camp' so they came out a week early and they had to learn how to walk the oxen, and we used oxen instead of horses.
• 28:20
  From the anger that motivates her: And I always was like, the pioneers had oxen.
• 28:22
  From the anger that motivates her: Why is every Western with horses?
• 28:25
  From the anger that motivates her: Oxen are very dangerous and they don't back up.
• 28:29
  From the anger that motivates her: So you can never like, when you do a second take, you always have to be moving forward your whole crew,'cause oxen don't go backwards.
• 28:36
  From the anger that motivates her: And there's a lot of reasons to not use oxen.
• 28:38
  From the anger that motivates her: And I would never do that again.
• 28:42
  From the anger that motivates her: But they had to learn how to walk the oxen, which was kind of paramount.
• 28:47
  From the anger that motivates her: And then also they had to learn how to build fire without matches, how to grind coffee and make coffee and put up the tents and take down the tents, a million times. So it would--'Cause when we catch up with them their way into their trip, and so they're past the inspirational, like "We're going to get to heaven on earth" kind of the inspiration is gone, and now they're down to like, if you look at the diaries of the pioneer women and the men, they go from aspirational to I put up the tent, I cook the beans, I cut the bacon.
• 29:24
  From the anger that motivates her: I put down the tent.
• 29:24
  From the anger that motivates her: I walked this many miles.
• 29:28
  From the anger that motivates her: So they're at that stage when we catch up with them.
• 29:31
  From the anger that motivates her: And then they each just had this one set of clothes.
• 29:35
  From the anger that motivates her: And so, yeah, there was a revolt at some point where the actors I was trying to get everyone to not shower, and there was a revolt where they got together and refused to act if they couldn't wash their clothes once'cause they were just so smelly,'cause it was like 110 degrees out there.
• 29:51
  From the anger that motivates her: And so the other thing is the women learning how to maneuver those wagons with no peripheral vision because of the bonnets, which is what pioneer women had to do.
• 30:04
  From the anger that motivates her: So you're walking these oxen and you can't see what's going on beside you.
• 30:09
  From the anger that motivates her: You can only see what's directly in front of you.
• 30:12
  From the anger that motivates her: And that's sort of the approach I took for how I shot the film.
• 30:16
  From the anger that motivates her: You know, I use like a square frame instead of a rectangle, so you couldn't see where they were or where they were going.
• 30:22
  From the anger that motivates her: You would just be with them.
• 30:24
  From the anger that motivates her: And I think overall like giving the actors physical things to do, especially responding to animals, keeps people incredibly present.
• 30:34
  From the anger that motivates her: It's a non-acting technique, really.
• 30:37
  From the anger that motivates her: Like, I mean, you'll be killed if you screw up with those oxen.
• 30:41
  From the anger that motivates her: And so yeah, keeping actors busy is a good thing.
• 30:44
  From the anger that motivates her: Yeah, I've heard that meals, like, it's very hard to act badly if you're actually eating a meal because you have to actually eat.
• 30:51
  From the anger that motivates her: Yeah, but meals are a nightmare.
• 30:53
  From the anger that motivates her: That's...
• 30:55
  From the anger that motivates her: Well, just sound.
• 30:57
  From the anger that motivates her: I had too many meals inMastermind. Yeah, yeah.
• 31:01
  From the anger that motivates her: Well, let's get to that, actually.
• 31:01
  From the anger that motivates her: Although, actually.
• 31:03
  From the anger that motivates her: Wait, you've given us some insight to a Kelly Reichardt set what I do want to know, what is it actually like on a Kelly Reichardt set?
• 31:09
  From the anger that motivates her: I'm assuming that it's not long silences like.
• 31:13
  From the anger that motivates her: - On a set.
• 31:13
  From the anger that motivates her: - Yeah.
• 31:14
  From the anger that motivates her: That set, Meek's Cutoff was, that was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life.
• 31:18
  From the anger that motivates her: And it was the hardest thing I think the actors would say that they've ever done.
• 31:22
  From the anger that motivates her: And I'm so lucky no one got hurt on that film.
• 31:25
  From the anger that motivates her: We were really in the middle of nowhere and there were rattlesnakes and it went from being 110 degrees where someone had, what do you call it when you get too hot?
• 31:38
  From the anger that motivates her: - Yeah, heatstroke.
• 31:38
  From the anger that motivates her: - Yes.
• 31:40
  From the anger that motivates her: In the desert, which is really dangerous.
• 31:42
  From the anger that motivates her: And then it dropped to like 20 degrees and someone got the opposite of heatstroke.
• 31:49
  From the anger that motivates her: - Frostbite.
• 31:49
  From the anger that motivates her: - No not frostbite.
• 31:51
  From the anger that motivates her: But were you go into like a seizure because you're too cold.
• 31:55
  From the anger that motivates her: Anyway, too many things were dangerous on that film because we were really far from a road, and we would go across this playa every day.
• 32:04
  From the anger that motivates her: And then we learned, if it rains, you can't get, you're trapped, you can't get back across the playa.
• 32:09
  From the anger that motivates her: So at the end of the day, people would pack up and there was a race to be in the front, because if you were in the back, you were just eating dust.
• 32:17
  From the anger that motivates her: Anyway, we pushed everyone too far in that film.
• 32:20
  From the anger that motivates her: And some people really went crazy in the desert.
• 32:24
  From the anger that motivates her: And I was like, well, this is obviously the last film I'm ever making.
• 32:26
  From the anger that motivates her: And so, you know, I'll just do whatever I want to do because clearly I'm never making another movie.
• 32:32
  From the anger that motivates her: But okay, that was the extreme, but we had quite a pleasant time making as far as that goes.
• 32:36
  From the anger that motivates her: You know?
• 32:38
  From the anger that motivates her: I mean, filmmaking is hard.
• 32:39
  From the anger that motivates her: In making Mastermind it was like, we shot in the fall.
• 32:43
  From the anger that motivates her: Mastermind and First Cow were both much better experiences because for one thing, the weather wasn't killing anybody.
• 32:52
  From the anger that motivates her: But it's a good experience.
• 32:54
  From the anger that motivates her: I mean, we, I work with a lot of the same people over and over, and we're very close.
• 33:00
  From the anger that motivates her: And so it's like picking up on a conversation and not starting from scratch all the time.
• 33:05
  From the anger that motivates her: And I feel like it's like on a trip together and an adventure and everyone's all in.
• 33:12
  From the anger that motivates her: It's not like the actors are really separate from the crew, like actors are usually sort of more separate from the crew and hang out in their trailers and stuff, and we don't have those kind of amenities, so...
• 33:25
  From the anger that motivates her: The lack of budget helps.
• 33:27
  From the anger that motivates her: - Breed some camaraderie.
• 33:27
  From the anger that motivates her: - Yeah.
• 33:28
  From the anger that motivates her: Let's move on to the what sounds like a great adventure: Mastermind.
• 33:33
  From the anger that motivates her: What was the first inkling of this movie?
• 33:33
  From the anger that motivates her: Where did it come from?
• 33:37
  From the anger that motivates her: I'm looking forward to the answer'cause it's like I feel watching it, that it could have come from anywhere.
• 33:41
  From the anger that motivates her: It could be the character, it could be the era.
• 33:43
  From the anger that motivates her: It could be the genre.
• 33:43
  From the anger that motivates her: Like what came first?
• 33:47
  From the anger that motivates her: - The circular drive.
• 33:47
  From the anger that motivates her: - What?
• 33:50
  From the anger that motivates her: The circular drive that's outside the museum.
• 33:55
  From the anger that motivates her: Kelly's talking about a location in the opening act of The Mastermind, where in a scene that is both tense and hilarious, our hero parks his getaway car in a museum's circular driveway as his fellow thieves clumsily load up the trunk with priceless Arthur Dove paintings.
• 34:11
  From the anger that motivates her: Hey, go easy, man. Easy. But then, as he finally tries to pull away.
• 34:18
  From the anger that motivates her: Honk or something. He realizes another car has randomly decided to park right in front of him, blocking the escape route.
• 34:25
  From the anger that motivates her: Oh, this isn't good.
• 34:28
  From the anger that motivates her: It's a scene Kelly literally ripped from the headlines.
• 34:32
  From the anger that motivates her: Art heist stories just interest me.
• 34:35
  From the anger that motivates her: And I was cruising around the internet for art heists, and there was a 50th year anniversary of in 1972, when these teen girls had gotten caught up in an art heist.
• 34:49
  From the anger that motivates her: They went to the museum for an art assignment for their high school, and some guys were stealing some masterpieces, some big art, and they got caught up in the scuffle and I was like, oh, that is amazing.
• 35:04
  From the anger that motivates her: And then there was the description of how their car blocked them in a circular drive.
• 35:10
  From the anger that motivates her: And then I think I was like, had just revisited Costa-Gavras's State of Siege at the time.
• 35:17
  From the anger that motivates her: And there's a montage, a car montage at the beginning of that film, because they're going to kidnap a senator, and it's really beautiful the way it moves from car to car.
• 35:27
  From the anger that motivates her: And I had this whole elaborate car circular drive thing in my mind, which I had my circular drive for like five hours, and it's not as elaborate as my...
• 35:39
  From the anger that motivates her: But we did what we could.
• 35:42
  From the anger that motivates her: So it started there, that particular snatch and grab or heist, whatever you want to call it.
• 35:50
  From the anger that motivates her: This is back before security cameras and back when there were circular drives in front of museums, and they'd go in and just grab some paintings and run out.
• 36:00
  From the anger that motivates her: And so I set it in 1972, which would put it just like the end of the 60s, the living in the 50s, suburbia like that's been deemed not to be the dream it was portrayed to be.
• 36:17
  From the anger that motivates her: And the country is super divided.
• 36:20
  From the anger that motivates her: 70 is like the year America bombs Cambodia and the shootings at Kent State happen,- where the protesters are shot- By the National Guard.
• 36:33
  From the anger that motivates her: By the National Guard, who are going to my hometown, Portland, as we speak.
• 36:38
  From the anger that motivates her: Yeah, you're almost sort of answering my next question, which is like, were you aware of the parallels to the modern day as you started thinking of that era?
• 36:48
  From the anger that motivates her: Well, you can't be.
• 36:48
  From the anger that motivates her: Well, you know, when we made the film, things were different.
• 36:52
  From the anger that motivates her: You know, we started filming before Trump.
• 36:55
  From the anger that motivates her: We filmed during the election, but we were still giving arms to Israel and we were still a divided country.
• 37:03
  From the anger that motivates her: And you start this movie, there's like a, in the background, we hear a news story where they're talking about students protesting on campus and how cynical they've become, etc, etc.
• 37:11
  From the anger that motivates her: I mean, did you ever think about setting this movie in the modern day?
• 37:14
  From the anger that motivates her: No. You couldn't.
• 37:16
  From the anger that motivates her: I mean, really, while we were filming in the museum, a young guy did a snatch and grab.
• 37:23
  From the anger that motivates her: He went in and grabbed two etchings and ran out into the woods with them.
• 37:28
  From the anger that motivates her: But like a heat, a drone with a heat, you know, caught him in like ten minutes.
• 37:33
  From the anger that motivates her: So, I mean, you couldn't really do the story now, and I don't know how to address the political situation in an art way at this point.
• 37:41
  From the anger that motivates her: Like, I don't have enough bird's eye view of where this is all going, or like, I wanted to not be in this moment.
• 37:50
  From the anger that motivates her: So it's maybe an escape for you, in a way.
• 37:51
  From the anger that motivates her: Well, definitely, I wanted to.
• 37:51
  From the anger that motivates her: I mean, what date are we in right now?
• 37:56
  From the anger that motivates her: We're like the first week of October.
• 37:58
  From the anger that motivates her: Last year, I hadn't even started filming yet.
• 38:02
  From the anger that motivates her: I mean, that's how much I did not want to be in the world, like, I stop shooting and I went into the editing room and I cut every day.
• 38:10
  From the anger that motivates her: But obviously, as you're working on it, you realize the parallels are revealing themselves constantly.
• 38:17
  From the anger that motivates her: And because America repeats its stupidness all the time.
• 38:22
  From the anger that motivates her: But, you know, then there's art.
• 38:25
  From the anger that motivates her: You know, Arthur Dove's like, the good side of America.
• 38:28
  From the anger that motivates her: You know, Arthur Dove's an American, kind of considered the first American abstract painter.
• 38:33
  From the anger that motivates her: And just like that, all those things exist in the sort of handbasket of America.
• 38:40
  From the anger that motivates her: But at some point, you know, you got to kind of quit thinking about the political and think about just the character and the day you're in and what that character is doing that day, and let all the other stuff kind of go.
• 38:53
  From the anger that motivates her: Yeah, we're running low on time.
• 38:55
  From the anger that motivates her: I did want to ask you a last question, though, about this movie.
• 38:57
  From the anger that motivates her: I'm watching this film...
• 38:59
  From the anger that motivates her: The opening scene and the heist itself were like pulse pounding.
• 39:05
  From the anger that motivates her: And I could imagine, like, if it was any other filmmaker and I'd watch this movie, I would be like, oh, their next movie is going to be like a Hollywood thriller.
• 39:11
  From the anger that motivates her: This is their calling card and they'll do a Hollywood thriller.
• 39:14
  From the anger that motivates her: Obviously not going to happen with you, but you've also worked with big stars.
• 39:17
  From the anger that motivates her: I do wonder to what extent Hollywood has ever come knocking and been like, hey, you know, here's, I don't know, a Pink Panther Redux or something to do.
• 39:26
  From the anger that motivates her: And what are those conversations like?
• 39:26
  From the anger that motivates her: Because I'd love to be a fly on the wall.
• 39:30
  From the anger that motivates her: Yeah, I haven't had those conversations.
• 39:32
  From the anger that motivates her: I mean, I have a teaching job that I like.
• 39:32
  From the anger that motivates her: I really like my teaching job.
• 39:36
  From the anger that motivates her: I have a community of people, colleagues that I teach with that mostly aren't narrative filmmakers.
• 39:42
  From the anger that motivates her: And so that's always an interesting world to be in.
• 39:45
  From the anger that motivates her: And then I like making films with my community that I make films with, and I'm not the most flexible person.
• 39:55
  From the anger that motivates her: I can't just like enter another world where like other people have opinions and I mean, like I'm in a completely collaborative situation with the people I make films with, but they're of my world.
• 40:06
  From the anger that motivates her: It's just, it's just not a thing.
• 40:07
  From the anger that motivates her: - Yes.
• 40:07
  From the anger that motivates her: - Yeah.
• 40:08
  From the anger that motivates her: It's not going to happen.
• 40:09
  From the anger that motivates her: It's not happening. Yeah.
• 40:11
  From the anger that motivates her: I for one, am glad.
• 40:13
  From the anger that motivates her: I mean, for everyone's glad.
• 40:13
  From the anger that motivates her: No, I mean, like they are too.
• 40:16
  From the anger that motivates her: Yeah, but they've been beating down the door.
• 40:19
  From the anger that motivates her: I'll just tell you no...
• 40:22
  From the anger that motivates her: wondering if, I like to believe that someone's holding back the calls somewhere.
• 40:27
  From the anger that motivates her: But I don't know who that would be.
• 40:32
  From the anger that motivates her: Kelly Reichardt, The Mastermind, is streaming now on MUBI and I cannot recommend it enough.
• 40:37
  From the anger that motivates her: Check the show notes of this episode to subscribe and start watching.
• 40:41
  From the anger that motivates her: And that is the MUBI Podcast.
• 40:41
  From the anger that motivates her: Next episode, coming later this week.
• 40:45
  From the anger that motivates her: We go back to our season about food on film with one of the world's great filmmakers who put Chai at the center of her breakthrough movie and her life.
• 40:53
  From the anger that motivates her: It takes 20 minutes. You know, I make it every morning, so I know.
• 40:57
  From the anger that motivates her: Yeah, this ain't just putting a bag in a cup.
• 40:59
  From the anger that motivates her: No, no, no. That's what we call Musungu chai, which is the restless white folk do it like that.
• 41:06
  From the anger that motivates her: The legendary Mira Nair talks about how she brewed up her debut,Salaam Bombay! and dishes on what her son, Zoram Mamdani, eats at home.
• 41:14
  From the anger that motivates her: Follow us so you don't miss it.
• 41:15
  From the anger that motivates her: Also, if you've got questions, comments, or you just want to sound off on your favorite Kelly Reichardt movie, our email is podcast@mubi.com And now let's roll credits.
• 41:24
  From the anger that motivates her: This episode was hosted and written by me Rico Gagliano Ciara McEniff produced it along with assistant producer Kat Kowalczyk.
• 41:31
  From the anger that motivates her: Christian Coons edited and mastered this episode.
• 41:33
  From the anger that motivates her: Our original theme music was composed by Yuri Suzuki.
• 41:36
  From the anger that motivates her: Huge thanks this week to Elodie Fagan, Ibit Omer, Marie Kloos, and everyone who made MUBI Fest Berlin a blast.
• 41:43
  From the anger that motivates her: Also Linda Winkler, Kai Kern and the Silent Green team in Berlin who did tech and recorded this event.
• 41:47
  From the anger that motivates her: What a place you got there.
• 41:51
  From the anger that motivates her: This show is executive produced by me along with Efe Çakarel Daniel Kasman and Michael Tacca.
• 41:55
  From the anger that motivates her: And finally, for the best in cinema, subscribe to MUBI at mubi.com Thanks for listening.
• 42:01
  From the anger that motivates her: Go watch some movies.