Latest / Sac-A-Lait Talk / TOLEDO BEND FALL TRANSITION SECRETS WITH PRO GUIDE-CARLA WHITSTINE
Transcript
- speaker-0: Welcome back to another slab bike segment here on Sacculate Talk. Joining us today is a hammer from Toledo Bend who knows exactly how to track down giant slabs even when to can even when the conditions get tough. She's a pro guide with bent rod guide service and a true expert on the bend. The one and only Captain Crappy herself, Carla Wittstein. Carlo, welcome to Sackolade Talk. speaker-1: Hey everybody, glad to be back. speaker-0: My pleasure, Carla. Thanks for jumping on with us for our slab bike seven today. Carla, if you're ready, we're locked and loaded. speaker-1: Let's go. speaker-0: Okay. Carl, what is the story behind the nickname Captain Crappy? speaker-1: Well, I am a U.S. Coast Guard Master Captain and people up north call white perches. I grew up calling them, call them crappy. So first name starts with a C. We have captain, we have caller and we have crappy. So I just, Captain, crappy callers. speaker-0: Okay. So so that's the story behind it, huh? speaker-1: The three C's. Yep, that's it. speaker-0: Should say. speaker-1: That's right. And my sister's fixing to move from Florida and she's going to be guiding. She's a Coast Guard Captain too, and she's fish at the bend on her time off from Florida. She's going to be sac-a-lay-sam. speaker-0: Okay. Yep. That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Carla, how did you get your start fishing Toledo Bend and what led you to transitioning into guiding full time? speaker-1: Well, my parents lived up here after I was raised. And of course they moved up here and they started guiding. My mom and dad together on one boat guiding. This is before SpotLock and all the forward-facing sonars. And they did it for several years. It was called Whitstein's Guide Service. So my mom and dad, I used to go help them and that's how I got started. speaker-0: Okay, awesome. Let me ask you this, Miss Carla, how has the crappy fishery on Toledo Bend changed since you first started targeting them? speaker-1: Well, when I first started, it was before LiveScope. Now with LiveScope, I'm able to view the terrain a little bit better and get the right drop-offs, the right depth footage and overall find the highways, as I like to call it, the creeks and stuff, scan on the side of them and put my brush piles. So it helped. It has helped tremendously. Instead of just saying, go off of this point, drop 20 foot. look at a map, say, there's supposed to be a drain here. This might be a good spot. So it kind of dials in where you want to put your brush pipe. speaker-0: Okay. All right. What is the most rewarding part of taking clients out on the water through Bentrod Guide Service? speaker-1: The smiles, the laughter, the competition, seeing kids smile, catching their first fish. That's what makes it fun. Like I said, it's fun. It's work when you're putting out the brush piles, know, carrying cinder blocks, cutting trees, dragging them, putting them in the boat, then throwing them out, making your piles. Okay. Like I said, that's the fun part. The fishing, that's the easy part. And the hours go by so fast because you're having fun and you're watching people have fun. Nobody gets on my boat in a bad mood. Even if the fish aren't biting, they're happy to just be on the water. speaker-0: Yeah, absolutely. Just to be outdoors and and be on the waters. Okay. Carla, what is the biggest misconception people have about finding big slabs on a massive reservoir like Toledo Bin? speaker-1: What's the what? Sorry. speaker-0: No pr no. What is the biggest misconception people have about finding big slabs on a massive reservoir like Toledo Bend? speaker-1: They think when they come out, they're gonna catch a big slab. And some days the big slabs just aren't biting. You may catch several little ones, know, more of your 10 inch, but a Pleasuban has some big slabs. So, and there's a lot of pictures with people with big slabs, but it doesn't mean that you're gonna go out there and catch all big slabs. You're probably gonna have a mixed bag of fish. speaker-0: Yeah, absolutely. There's there's nothing wrong with a one pound, one and a half pound cropping. speaker-1: Exactly. They still taste good. speaker-0: They still taste good, that's right. Hey, Carla, as we move deeper into late fall and head toward winter, how are you catching them right now? speaker-1: Right now they're still in the brush pile. speaker-0: They are. speaker-1: They are. They are still in the brush piles. They are feeding because their bellies are full when I clean them. So they're feeding, getting ready for the wintertime. But as it gets colder, you'll see them transition out of the brush piles and move to deeper water. Primarily on Toledo Bend, it'd be along the Sabine River. Kind of towards the north on the Texas side is where I find them during the wintertime. There's an area that everybody knows it's called the chicken coop at Toledo Bend. yes, everybody's heard of chicken coop. They want to go to chicken coop. Last couple of years, the chicken coop hadn't really been that great. But I find if you go further north where it's not as much fishing, you you find them more just like you do on a chicken coop. I put my hummingbird mouth up. on my Humminbird and I just put my life scope down and I scanned the sides of the Sabine River on the Texas side and follow and you'll see them stacked up maybe on one stump one day and next day they may be on another. So you just cruise along the riverbank and look for them. speaker-0: Okay. Okay. How does a major cofront shift your game plan from one day to the next? speaker-1: It doesn't really shift my game plan a lot. Cause like I said, they're gone. I found them along the river. Like I said, they're just, they may have moved up just a little bit or gone a little bit deeper. said, scanning on your life's go, you know, 75 to a hundred foot out and scan on each side and follow a hummingbird map. Cause it's so much easier. The map is better on a hummingbird than a Garmin to me. But like I said, I put, I put the. Humminbird on and the live scope down and I just, I scanned and like I said, they're still going to be on the side of the rivers during the winter time, even with a cold front, but you know, they may not bite as good after the cold front. And before the cold front, they generally feed pretty good. speaker-0: Right. Carl, you you mentioned earlier that they're still on the the brush piles right now. speaker-1: Yes. speaker-0: What technique are you using to to to catch them? Are you dropping them right on the head or how far away are are are you dropping your your bait? speaker-1: drop them right above them, right above them. Let it sit for just a little bit, whether it's a shiner or a jig and just start slowly. mean, as slow as you can, like you should barely see your rod tip moving and just start raising it slow, slow, slow, two or three foot. Sometimes they won't hit you till right at the surface and just, they'll follow it and follow it and follow it and then. They'll decide to bite it on the way up. But that's how I'm catching them right now. speaker-0: It's like a grenade then, right? speaker-1: Yes, yes. I said, some of them are biting right at the surface. When you think, I'm fixing to pull it out of the water, that's when they bite. speaker-0: Right. Okay. Good to know. Okay, what are your what are your go to debt ranges for finding consistent schools during during this traditional time of the year? speaker-1: Like I said, mainly I just fish brush piles. So right now they can be anywhere from six foot to 20 foot deep. And like I said, you'll see where they're suspended on the live scope. Everybody's like, well, that's cheating using a live scope. You cannot make them bite. And that's one of the most aggravating things is seeing 200 crop on your brush pile and you can't get on the bike for any, you try every color, every. Every possible way to hook the shiner, just slow retrieve, leaving it still. They just will not bite. And that's the most aggravating thing. I haven't used an Alaska, but they there. speaker-0: Right. So I know you you said earlier that you love targeting brush piles. So that's is that how you you're finding right now? Just targeting brush piles and and man made structures? speaker-1: Yeah. And like I said, if I go up north on Toledo Bend, I will go in the back coves and you will find them right now, nine foot of water also on like just a lay down under water, you know, a tree. again, just put your life scope down, following the creeks. Just follow your hummingbird map and follow your creeks. Follow the curvature of them, everything. Just stay right on it. Put that life scope down and you'll see them. It'll look like a Christmas tree. They just light up. a stump. And like I said, they may be on this stump today. Tomorrow they may be on another one right there close, but you can still catch them in nine foot of water and it's just finding them in the back of these. You there? Okay. I'm sorry. Yeah. speaker-0: When it comes to bait charges, are you leaning heavily towards live shiners? Are you using artificial jigs? speaker-1: I use both. start out on my guide trips using shiners because most people, fishing Toledo bend, it's not jigging. It's not the lifting, the popping, the jig. They want it slow and just, you know, casting over them and letting it swing back or, you know, above them. They want it slow. And some people just cannot, you know, fish slow enough for them. Like I said, a shiner, you drop down there, the shiner does all the movement. And all you got to do is say just ease it up slow. A lot of people think, gee, you had to pop it up and down, up and down, just a lot of movement. And that's just not the way they have wanted it this year at all. speaker-0: Is that how life sc scope has changed the way you you've you fish a jig is slower precedent? speaker-1: Because you can watch the fishes reaction, you know, could tell, I mean, if you pop it, they don't even bother with it, they don't even move. But if you just kind of ease it over them, just like a natural, you know, snow or something swimming in the water, if you just kind of ease it over them, it just tempts them a little bit more. And if you go to slowly pull it away from them. lot of times they just can't stand it. Their bellies may be full, but they just can't stand a free meal right there in front of speaker-0: It's a reactionary bite, right? Yeah. speaker-1: Yes. Yes. speaker-0: Hey, Miss Carla, what is your favorite jig combination for clear versus stained water on Toledo Bin? speaker-1: I like at any point, I like monkey milk. Generally with a little stain water, I'll use a chartreuse tail or a peat tail. But I like monkey milk with a little flake in it, like blue flake or purple flake. Like I you can't go wrong with anything monkey milk. That's what I throw most of the time. My main jig that I use and I've used most, I've probably gone through about 300 of them is a, it's called a slab slapper from State Line Bait Company. It's got a little paddle tail on it. And when you pull it away from them real slow, that paddle tail does this. Right. speaker-0: It does that little rip in the in the water. speaker-1: It does and they like... speaker-0: Okay, let me ask you this. How important is jig weight when you're trying to brut to precisely present a bait to a stubborn fish? speaker-1: I've noticed the lightest that you can use generally will get them a reactionary bite. Like I said, the heavier the weight, especially if you move it a lot, it just, I always use just a little bitty sinker, right? probably about eight or 10 inches above whatever jig head I got on. And it gives it just a little bit more movement. And they seem to like that, but I had to go with the lightest weight possible. speaker-0: Do you use a little you talking about it like a little split shot weight? speaker-1: A split shot, yeah, one of the little small ones. speaker-0: Okay. Yeah. speaker-1: But like I said, I try to get away with the lightest jig head that I can. speaker-0: Yeah. Are we talking about a one thirty second or do you go lighter than than that? speaker-1: I got a 132nd and a 164th. I have used that one, but the 132nd is the main one I go to. speaker-0: Okay. speaker-1: And you like say you don't want it to drop super fast on them. I presented real, real slow to them. You want? speaker-0: You want a slow spa, right? You you speaker-1: Yeah. So try, you know, the lightest one or the 132nd pretty much overall go to one speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: I use. speaker-0: Yeah, that's about the the lightest jig I have in my tackle box. I don't think I've ever used anything lighter than a one thirty second. Hey, Miss Carla, are there any Pacific hair jigs or plastic profiles that you considered a permanent fixture on your boat? speaker-1: I use a hand tied jigs made by one of our local guides here and he does the painted heads and they look really good. A lot of sparkle to them a little bit. That's the ones I use up here. Like I said, the same thing is either one eighth or like a one 32nd jig head, something small, even, know, smaller than that if you can get them. speaker-0: Okay. Miss Carl, what is your preferred rod and line setup for pulling those heavy crappie out of out of the deep timber or out of the brush piles? speaker-1: I use the Outlaw jig poles, well they're seven foot, they're called a seven foot Patriot. They're one piece. speaker-0: Peace. speaker-1: That's what I mainly have on my boat. I do have a few ACC crappie poles that I use, but primarily mine are the Outlaw Patriots. speaker-0: What size l what type of line and what size are are you using? speaker-1: Mainly eight pound. have six on some of them, but anything between six and eight pound test line. speaker-0: Just just just speaker-1: Yeah. Okay. I like something that break off easy because like I said, on braid line, can't hardly break off and it moves the trees and you know, everything underwater down there in my brush piles. It takes too much to break off. So, I mean, that's why I use this monofilament. a fluorocarbon, and I use primarily the, the bright yellow fluorescent line. speaker-0: Okay. Cool. speaker-1: That will keep them in just see the bite a little bit better. speaker-0: Yeah. I I use high Viz whenever I'm fishing myself also. yeah. All right, Miss Carl, let's have a conversation about the live scope, okay? Okay. Highly highly controversial to a lot of people. speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, like I said, you can see it definitely, you know, takes the guessing game out of where they are, you can't make them white. speaker-0: Yeah, absolutely. Let me ask you this. How has Live Scope changed the way you guide and scout for crappy on on on Toledo Ben? speaker-1: Badden, I have probably 30 piles out there. And like I said, one day there may be a bunch on one and none on the other one. And it may be reversed the second day. The good part with LiveScope, I don't have to lose time fishing by fishing a pile that really doesn't have many on it. So I'll run up to it, slow approach, put my LiveScope down. If I don't see enough there, you know, to fish, I could save that time and move on to the next one that may be holding pile. a lot of fish on it. speaker-0: So so basically with using live scope you can f also you can fish more efficient, right? speaker-1: Yes. And I said, it saves you time and you could put customers on fish a little faster. And like I said, just cause they're there, don't mean they'll bite, but you know, it's, it's a tool that you can perfect your skills on. Let me put it like that. You know, whether they want it fast, whether they want it slow and you can see, you know, your jig down there and you know, what you're moving to watch the fish's reaction to how you're moving it. That's what I use it for. You're not going to always go out there and catch a limit. Even with live scope, like I said, it takes a lot more than just seeing them down there. speaker-0: Yeah. You also you also gotta trigger into biting. speaker-1: Right, that's the hard part, unless they're just really feeding. speaker-0: just 'cause they're down there, that don't mean they're gonna bite your your jig or your shiner, So speaker-1: Yes, yes, you're right. speaker-0: so let me ask you this about Lionscope. How heavily do you depend on LiveScope yourself? A speaker-1: 100 % speaker-0: hundred percent. Okay. Very good. speaker-1: Yup. And it's a tool that you see other fishermen out there, everybody's staring at screens these days. Right. And that's just, that's just part of it now. you get spoiled. Let me just say that you get spoiled to like seeing the fish. You're not paying attention to the tip of your rod or Yeah. You're just looking at a TV screen. speaker-0: You're not watching your line, you're not watching your raw tip, you're looking at that screen. speaker-1: I guess. speaker-0: That's probably the a negative part of my scope, right? speaker-1: It is, it takes away a little bit from, watching, just it, I guess it takes some part of the excitement of just sitting there, whether looking at, the fish is coming up, the fish is fixing to hit. Yes, it's a little exciting then watching them come up by all your bait and you're fixing to get it, but without the screen and just sitting there and you get a bite. That excitement is a little different than watching it come up on the screen like a video game. speaker-0: Right. Miss Carla, for the anglers struggling to interpret what they see on the screen, what is the number one tip you can give them? speaker-1: If you're looking at a structure on your live scope and you see all these fish on it, the ones at the very top moving around real quick that'll follow your bait down, those are primarily going to be your bream. They're a little fast, they're swimming around, like I said, they'll follow your bait down. Your crappie, sacrilege, kind of hang out in the middle, closer to the base of the tree, the trunk of the tree. And they don't move a lot. They just, they're waiting, they're ambush fish. So they're just waiting for the food to come to them. And like I said, you'll just see these white blobs and you're like, yeah, that's fish. And they're not really moving a lot. That's going to be primarily your white perch, crappie right there, your sacale right there. And they'll bunch up in like a big circle. I mean, you'll see them all bunched up. of course you're, know, some of the fish on the bottom may be crocky suspended right off the bottom, but a lot of those can be your catfish and other, know, goo and stuff like that. speaker-0: Right. Okay. Let me ask you this about Live Scope. How has Lives Scope or what have you learned from Livescope that's made you a better Sakala crappy fisherman? speaker-1: watching my presentation of my bait, sitting there watching, you know, how they react to it, how slow that they want it. Just being more patient and watching it. You know, whether, if didn't have that, you had no idea what depth you were in or anything, just throwing out there and just letting it fall back. Now you can see your reaction from the fish. And like I said, it's made me a better fisherman because I've slowed down. I've light popped it and jigged it up and down. So that's, it's improved my fishing that way. speaker-0: Okay, good enough. How do you catch fish that you can see on the live scope, that you can see on on live sonar, but they're completely ignoring your bait. How d how do you catch those fish? speaker-1: You don't. You don't. They're just, mean, like I you try every technique and they still not biting, you're not gonna catch it. speaker-0: It's it's time to move on. speaker-1: It's time to move on and find one that will. Like I said, you can sit there and you can, you can hang there and hit them in the head and they just. speaker-0: They not having it today. speaker-1: They not having it today. it's best to smooth on. speaker-0: In those situations, that's why it's called fishing, not catching, right? speaker-1: That's right, like I said, you can find them all day, but putting them in the boat's a different story. speaker-0: Right. Okay. Miss Carla, do you ever turn your electronics off and just go old school patterns, or is live tech essentially for every trip now? speaker-1: The only time I turn it off, if I go fishing under the Pendleton Bridge or another bridge in the wintertime, know, just tie up and fish at night and just sit there and enjoy the outdoors, I turn them all off. And I do not use my live scope during the spawn. Going up in shallow, to me, I don't find it. Right. To me, it's not useful to me in shallow water. So speaker-0: No need speaker-1: it's better when you have deeper water. I people trying to use it in shallow water, it's hard to learn. Get you some deep water and learn your life scope. I I don't use it in the spring in the back of coals and I'll catch them during the spawn. speaker-0: Okay. What is your one piece of advice you can give a weekend warrior who wants to break into the tournament scene or up their crappy game? speaker-1: Just learn technique. Learn your technique. Learn what body of lake you're fishing on, what the fish are doing. Just watch your technique in dropping down and watch how they respond to it and target the little bigger fish in the schools. Just watch your technique and see what you can do to get them to bite. Sometimes it's just different. Different little things, different little colors, different this. Try it all. speaker-0: Right, very good. Hey, Miss Carla, last question, okay? Where can the Sacolake Talk community follow you and book a trip with you? speaker-1: Really on Facebook, we have a webpage, Bent Rods Guide Service. Just log on and send us a friend request. We'll get back to you, comment under some of our posts. We keep a post going weekly, daily, and with what the fish are doing and pictures of trips we've taken and what we caught that day. Everything's on Facebook. speaker-0: Okay, awesome. Well Miss Carla, thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your wealth of knowledge with the Sack Late Talk community. speaker-1: Thank you, I appreciate it. I love what y'all are doing. speaker-0: Thank you so much. And we'll we'll definitely talk talk again soon, okay? Alright, Glenn. That wraps up this week's slide bike segment. If you want to book a trip with the best on Toledo Ben, make sure to look up Carl Up Woodstein over at BitRod Guy Service. Don't forget to hit that subscribe button on our YouTube channel, leave us a review and keep those lines tight. And we'll see you next week on Sakalay Talk.