Latest / The SME Stream / From Halter to Supie: 14 years of startup wins and losses

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From Halter to Supie: 14 years of startup wins and losses · The SME Stream

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Speaker 1: The world of venture capital, it can seem like a
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Speaker 1: bit of a black box. Lots of hoopla about multimillion
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Speaker 1: dollar fundraising rounds, but often little discussion of how these
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Speaker 1: funded companies fare in the long term.
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Speaker 2: But one of our most established venture funds, ice House Ventures,
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Speaker 2: has opened up about some of its most high profile
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Speaker 2: startup investments.
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Speaker 3: The only feature that is ubiquitous is that the companies
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Speaker 3: that have become headliners and generated high value returns have
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Speaker 3: had a dance with death and their real and visceral
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Speaker 3: and they survived.
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Speaker 1: This week on the Business of Tech Powered by Two
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Speaker 1: Degrees Business, ice House Ventures Managing director Robbie Paul on
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Speaker 1: the hits and misses of the last decade or so
0:43
Speaker 1: of investing in New Zealand startups and how the VC
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Speaker 1: industry is doing after the halcyon days of twenty twenty
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Speaker 1: one and twenty twenty two when money was cheap and
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Speaker 1: valuations were high.
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Speaker 2: But first, of course, I look at some of the
0:55
Speaker 2: big stories from the tech world and a scooter scandal
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Speaker 2: has left scooter ride sharing company Beam in disarray.
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Speaker 1: This is remarkable a story that sort of played out
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Speaker 1: over the last week. Ben we saw Beam Singapore owned
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Speaker 1: company has been doing quite well. You see their purple scooters,
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Speaker 1: a lot of them around the streets off Wellington, or
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Speaker 1: at least you did until sort of the weekend when
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Speaker 1: the Wellington City Council ordered Beam scooters and e bikes
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Speaker 1: off the streets. That was following Auckland Council doing exactly
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Speaker 1: the same thing. And this relates to revelations that were
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Speaker 1: published in the Australian newspaper over a week ago based
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Speaker 1: on some whistleblower allegations and documents that were fed to
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Speaker 1: these councils alleging that Beam had put more scooters onto
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Speaker 1: the streets of Auckland and Wellington and other cities in
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Speaker 1: Australia than they were allowed to, very much in breach
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Speaker 1: off their agreements with those councils, to the extent that
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Speaker 1: hundreds of scooters were on the streets of Auckland that
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Speaker 1: shouldn't have been. I think about at one stage one
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Speaker 1: hundred and eighty scooters over their camp here in Wellington.
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Speaker 1: So this is a really bad look for Beam and
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Speaker 1: has hit them really hard.
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Speaker 2: They said that they did things like make some scooters
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Speaker 2: look like they were not there on the system when
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Speaker 2: they were being checked as a way to kind of
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Speaker 2: intentionally reduce the numbers. It's just a terrible look for
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Speaker 2: one of these companies to not only try and get
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Speaker 2: around regulation, but to kind of do it in a
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Speaker 2: really underhanded way.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, these are really the epitome of startups
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Speaker 1: in terms of they want to take advantage of the
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Speaker 1: network effect, which is get as many scooters out there
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Speaker 1: as possible. The more you have on the streets, the
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Speaker 1: more money that you make. They want to grow quickly.
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Speaker 1: It's very cutthroat, low margin, but you can sort of
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Speaker 1: see they're under pressure to really grow this business quickly
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Speaker 1: to satisfy investors, and you know, maybe it has led
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Speaker 1: to some bad behavior. That is what is being alleged
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Speaker 1: from some of the documents and messages that have come
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Speaker 1: out of that company. Beam is denying that and saying
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Speaker 1: the reason that they had these scooters on the streets
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Speaker 1: in breach of their agreement was they were putting scooters
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Speaker 1: out to replace ones that were inoperable or inaccessible, let
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Speaker 1: you know, thrown over a fence or something like that.
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Speaker 1: Auckland Wellington Council aren't really having a bar of that.
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Speaker 1: They have canceled their licenses.
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Speaker 2: You don't just get to make kind of overarching decisions
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Speaker 2: about when you do and don't put more scooters out
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Speaker 2: if you have a really firm contract with the public service.
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Speaker 2: You know, that's a bit absurd.
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Speaker 1: Beam has said to the council, we want to do
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Speaker 1: a financial settlement to sort of settle this whole thing
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Speaker 1: and apologize. But you know, it's sort of going criminal
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Speaker 1: potentially with the reporting it to the police, so there'll
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Speaker 1: be an investigation there and talking to other operators about
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Speaker 1: filling that void.
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Speaker 2: Silly decisions come back to haunt you, which is I
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Speaker 2: guess another story that we're kind of talking about, which
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Speaker 2: is the the issues of Elon Musk's X over in Brazil.
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Speaker 2: X allowed a far right congressman in Brazil, Nicholas Ferreira.
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Speaker 2: Oh goodness, I'm going to butcher that. Apologies to all
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Speaker 2: the Portuguese speakers out there, but he basically posted some
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Speaker 2: stuff on X that was considered hate speech that Brazil
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Speaker 2: didn't really like, and they said that you need to
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Speaker 2: do a better job at moderating, and Elon Musk says,
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Speaker 2: no free speech, free speech, that's the short version. There
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Speaker 2: was probably a bit more to it than that, and
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Speaker 2: As a result, Brazil said, well, then you need to
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Speaker 2: shut down X in Brazil, and Elon Musk refused. Brazil
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Speaker 2: came in told all of the telco operators in Brazil
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Speaker 2: to close off access to X, which most of them did.
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Speaker 2: The only one that hasn't is Starlink. So Brazil is
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Speaker 2: quite angry as Starlink for turning off access. They've also
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Speaker 2: seized some of the assets of Starlink. They've freezed it's
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Speaker 2: financials in the country, and Elon Musk is really not
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Speaker 2: very happy about it.
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Speaker 1: He's no, he said, the Supreme Court judge that made
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Speaker 1: that decision is a tyrannical dictator masquerading as a judge.
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Speaker 1: So he is, in typical Musk fashion, sort of gone
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Speaker 1: off the deep end on his own platform. And it
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Speaker 1: does raise questions about exactly where the line is around
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Speaker 1: freedom of speech and censorship and all that sort of thing.
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Speaker 1: But I think the interesting aspect of the story is
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Speaker 1: the Stylink connection, and so Stylink. Now Musk has come
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Speaker 1: out and this is fast developing story, so it may
5:48
Speaker 1: have moved on by the time this goes to air,
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Speaker 1: but he's basically said I'm not going to cut off
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Speaker 1: access to Stylink at this point, even though our bank
5:57
Speaker 1: accounts for Stylink in Brazil have been frozen, and that
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Speaker 1: is what we've been talking about before about you know,
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Speaker 1: Stylink is really well established in New Zealand. Now we've
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Speaker 1: got nearly forty thousand connections in New Zealand, so even
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Speaker 1: compared to Brazil, that's huge penetration. So you know, what
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Speaker 1: are the prospects down the line of Musk has some
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Speaker 1: falling out with the New Zealand government as he has
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Speaker 1: had with the Australian government and went to court over that.
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Speaker 1: They dropped that suit against them. But you know is
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Speaker 1: he's suddenly going to go, well, what happens over here
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Speaker 1: on X you don't like, so therefore I'm going to
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Speaker 1: restrict access on Stylink. You can see why people are
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Speaker 1: worried about having over reliance, particularly for rural broadband delivery,
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Speaker 1: on one company and one sort of quite volatile billionaire.
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Speaker 4: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: And the thing is as well, because Elon Musk has
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Speaker 2: proven himself to be somewhat petulant. It would only take
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Speaker 2: a new public New Zealand figure, maybe a politician, to
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Speaker 2: say something that he didn't like, and then he could
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Speaker 2: turn around and turn Starlink off for the country just
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Speaker 2: for the fun of it, if he really wanted to.
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Speaker 2: You know, I'm not saying he would, no, I'm just
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Speaker 2: saying that it is a possibility, and because of his volatility,
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Speaker 2: it makes it a bit less reliable that it's going
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Speaker 2: to be there in the you know, constantly. Especially because
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Speaker 2: it's a small country, a small market. It's not really
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Speaker 2: got the kind of financial incentive that maybe some other
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Speaker 2: jurisdictions would have.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, and so the way I see it heading because
7:26
Speaker 1: we do just you know, this week we had Chris
7:28
Speaker 1: Kill from The Herald reported about Amazon its applications to
7:34
Speaker 1: buy land in New Zealand for ground installations for its
7:38
Speaker 1: own satellite broadband service project Cooper, which the suggestion is
7:43
Speaker 1: some of those satellites will be in space and operational
7:46
Speaker 1: by the end of this year. So you will have
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Speaker 1: another billionaire, another big tech company that is offering broadband services.
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Speaker 1: It's going to take a while to have thousands of
7:55
Speaker 1: satellites up there as Stylink does. And I think what
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Speaker 1: we will see around the world as more of these
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Speaker 1: constellations of satellites go up providing broadband, governments will say Okay,
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Speaker 1: we're happy for you to service our country. Bring it on,
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Speaker 1: but there's got to be some service level agreement or
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Speaker 1: some surety of service. You can't just pull the plug
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Speaker 1: on tens of thousands of people if you don't like
8:21
Speaker 1: it or we have some dispute. This is a essentially
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Speaker 1: an emergency service for many people and we need surity
8:29
Speaker 1: and continuity of service.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, definitely, it's going to have to come to
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Speaker 2: it at some point. Considering the regulation of the taco
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Speaker 2: market in New Zealand, at some point there is going
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Speaker 2: to need to be a discussion around what are the
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Speaker 2: obligations of providing a an emergency service in the country.
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Speaker 2: The end of the day, having a second player in
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Speaker 2: New Zealand is going to be beneficial. I think it is.
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Speaker 4: Yes.
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Speaker 1: The other side of that though, is Doctory and Griffin,
9:00
Speaker 1: you know, the astronomer from Dunedin. No relation of mind,
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Speaker 1: but a really good guy I know quite well. He's
9:06
Speaker 1: very upset about the light pollution and the pollution of
9:09
Speaker 1: the night sky, and that's one aspect of it. But
9:11
Speaker 1: just it's going to be soon there's going to be
9:13
Speaker 1: a lot of satellites in low Earth orbit, so the
9:18
Speaker 1: chances of things going wrong and satellites colliding with each
9:21
Speaker 1: other and sending debris all over the place is going
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Speaker 1: to increase, So there are downsides to that as well.
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Speaker 1: But great having styling. I think they've changed the game
9:30
Speaker 1: and satellite services even better. Probably to have someone doing
9:33
Speaker 1: exactly the same thing they are doing to keep them
9:36
Speaker 1: honest and to keep the prices reasonable.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. I mean there's also the environmental impact of
9:43
Speaker 2: shooting rockets through the ozone layer over and over again,
9:46
Speaker 2: so yeah, something dickens that are as well.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, our featured guest this week is Robbie Paul,
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Speaker 1: who has been with ice House Ventures for nearly fifteen
9:56
Speaker 1: years and associated with the ice House itself since two
10:01
Speaker 1: thousand and eight, so he's played an integral role in
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Speaker 1: the development of the Auckland based venture capital firm and
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Speaker 1: the funds it manages. Been this big showcase that they
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Speaker 1: ran a couple of weeks off the ice House Ventures
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Speaker 1: companies in this stable. What was that all about?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a yearly event where they get about eight
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Speaker 2: startups to come and pitch in front of a room
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Speaker 2: full of basically the some of New Zealand's wealthiest people
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Speaker 2: as a way to number one, kind of show off
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Speaker 2: the startups and kind of get maybe get a little
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Speaker 2: bit more investment from the investors there as well, get
10:39
Speaker 2: them on as LPs for funds, or get them angel
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Speaker 2: investing into specific companies or whatever it is. So it's
10:47
Speaker 2: been going for fourteen years and a total of one
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Speaker 2: hundred and forty eight companies have presented. That's not including
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Speaker 2: this year, and of those, one hundred and eleven have
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Speaker 2: raised capital from the audience or from one of the
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Speaker 2: ice House Adventures funds. Some of them have not done
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Speaker 2: so well. So well, quite a fair few of them
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Speaker 2: have been successful, but of those companies that got an investment,
11:07
Speaker 2: thirty have eventually failed or delivered returns less than a
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Speaker 2: one to one. They include the likes of Sunfed Meats
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Speaker 2: and Soupy, both of which I think we've mentioned on
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Speaker 2: the podcast before. Then there have been some pretty standout
11:20
Speaker 2: successes as well. You've got Pelter who have just done
11:23
Speaker 2: a big deal in the US, Crimson Education who have
11:28
Speaker 2: just grown rampantly from the day they were born. Basically,
11:32
Speaker 2: it's kind of a high profile event and it also
11:34
Speaker 2: kind of puts a bit of a flag in the
11:37
Speaker 2: sand each year to say these are the kinds of
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Speaker 2: exciting things that are happening in startups in New Zealand.
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Speaker 1: Trek Suitdoorn Aerospace cheers these Mint Innovation, some great names there.
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Speaker 1: So according to some of the stats they gave you, Ben,
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Speaker 1: these showcases held annually, these companies that appeared at those showcases,
11:55
Speaker 1: they've gone on to raise one point nine to four
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Speaker 1: billion dollars between them, So that initial funding led on
12:02
Speaker 1: to those companies succeeding and raising you know, series ab
12:07
Speaker 1: CD and on, which is in some cases ten or
12:10
Speaker 1: twenty or million dollars or more.
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Speaker 4: So to me, it just.
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Speaker 1: Really shows how mature this sector has come. This is
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Speaker 1: just one company that really is at the heart of it.
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Speaker 1: I think they've done it a particularly good job of
12:24
Speaker 1: fostering some of these big names. And as Robbie sort
12:27
Speaker 1: of lays out in this interview, it really goes all
12:30
Speaker 1: the way back to the Trade Me days, the people
12:33
Speaker 1: who came out of Trade Me who had a really
12:35
Speaker 1: successful exit there.
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Speaker 2: And Robbie is a relentless optimist, so you know, he
12:40
Speaker 2: talks about it from the point of view of an
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Speaker 2: investor who wholeheartedly believes in the startup scene, the venture scene,
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Speaker 2: and all of the companies that he works with. But
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Speaker 2: at the same time, he really does have his finger
12:53
Speaker 2: on the pulse and he really does see everything that
12:56
Speaker 2: kind of goes on within the ice House Ventures world
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Speaker 2: and the startup ecosys them more broadly. So I threw
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Speaker 2: some questions Adam to try and get a sense of
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Speaker 2: what's going on, how the showcase has been, and what
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Speaker 2: the startup world is like today. Hi Robbie, Welcome to
13:17
Speaker 2: the Business of Tech podcast. Thanks for joining us.
13:19
Speaker 4: Great to be here. Thanks.
13:20
Speaker 2: So ice House Showcase this is a fantastic event that's
13:23
Speaker 2: hold every year where you get a bunch of really
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Speaker 2: exciting startups into a room to pitch kind of shock
13:29
Speaker 2: tank dragons Den style, and you get a whole huge
13:33
Speaker 2: number of investors to have a few drinks, have some
13:36
Speaker 2: nice food and they can elect to invest in these
13:39
Speaker 2: startups and really exciting event. How long has that been
13:41
Speaker 2: going on now?
13:43
Speaker 4: Yeah?
13:43
Speaker 3: So the showcase was established with the Rugby World Cup
13:45
Speaker 3: in twenty eleven, and it was under this sort of
13:49
Speaker 3: pretense that there were a bunch of international investors coming
13:52
Speaker 3: in and that they would be interested in investing in
13:55
Speaker 3: New Zealand.
13:55
Speaker 4: Companies.
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Speaker 3: And so it was only about six weeks before the
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Speaker 3: first event where Ray Thompson, who we recognize each year
14:02
Speaker 3: who sad they passed away, came up with this idea
14:05
Speaker 3: to showcase the best of New Zealand to the world
14:08
Speaker 3: on the sort of Rugby World Cup stage. And we've
14:11
Speaker 3: never looked back fourteen years on.
14:13
Speaker 2: And you got a wealth of international investment that year,
14:16
Speaker 2: did you?
14:17
Speaker 3: I'm afraid we got no international investment. And there it
14:22
Speaker 3: turns out that Kiwis were happy together and rally around it,
14:26
Speaker 3: but most of the international people are here for the
14:30
Speaker 3: Heineken and the Rugby World Cup.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, So looking back fourteen years ago the first showcase,
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Speaker 2: what was New Zealand's startup scene like at that point?
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Speaker 3: It was very nascent, right, I mean there was a
14:44
Speaker 3: lot of learning to take place, and there were many
14:49
Speaker 3: fewer sort of believers, right, many fewer investors who had
14:53
Speaker 3: been exposed to this asset class or the opportunities to
14:57
Speaker 3: feel ownership in aspirational Kiwi companies. And I think it
15:02
Speaker 3: was a lot of aspiration, but it pales into comparison
15:05
Speaker 3: to where we've come to today.
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Speaker 2: Is an ecosystem, Yeah, absolutely, what do you think of
15:10
Speaker 2: the key things that have helped to see the startup
15:14
Speaker 2: world in New Zealand grow.
15:17
Speaker 3: You got to give a lot of credit to the trailblazers, right,
15:21
Speaker 3: Peter Beck, Patty Mushrieky, right, Sean Simpson, Rod Drury, Sam
15:26
Speaker 3: Morgan and people before them to some extent, because the
15:32
Speaker 3: you know, cynics are more often right in startup investing
15:37
Speaker 3: than they're not, so they come across as being very
15:39
Speaker 3: smart and authoritative, and the easiest way to refute, you know,
15:45
Speaker 3: the positives about startups and investing in startups is to
15:49
Speaker 3: just say, oh, show me the results. Where are the results?
15:53
Speaker 3: And of course fourteen years ago there were many fewer results,
15:56
Speaker 3: and through amazing grit and hard work and commitment, the
16:04
Speaker 3: likes of Peterbeck and Fatty Mushriki who was on stage
16:07
Speaker 3: and you know, one of the earliest Showcases, have not
16:09
Speaker 3: demonstrated that, in fact, great companies can be built from
16:13
Speaker 3: New Zealand and there is reward for being a participant
16:16
Speaker 3: in that.
16:17
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah, And going back to Showcase, I've got some
16:22
Speaker 2: stats here that as one hundred and forty eight companies
16:25
Speaker 2: have pitched at Showcase over those years and a lot
16:30
Speaker 2: of them have been really successful. We're talking the likes
16:33
Speaker 2: of Dawn Aerospace, who's still coming up, but they're doing
16:36
Speaker 2: very well. But I think you did you say rocket
16:38
Speaker 2: Lab was one that pitched Crimson Education, some track Suit
16:43
Speaker 2: Halter who've just done fantastic in the US recently Mint
16:47
Speaker 2: Innovation Law Review, who are just a real, under the
16:51
Speaker 2: radar fantastic outfit. So is there a common factor in
16:55
Speaker 2: these really successful startups? Is there something that you can
16:58
Speaker 2: kind of point to and say you're gonna make a
17:00
Speaker 2: big kid?
17:01
Speaker 4: I wish there was.
17:02
Speaker 3: I mean there certainly retrospectively you can identify certain features
17:06
Speaker 3: that where there's commonality, but less so causality.
17:10
Speaker 4: And probably the only.
17:15
Speaker 3: Feature that is ubiquitous is that the companies that have
17:19
Speaker 3: come out the other side and become headliners and generated
17:22
Speaker 3: high value returns and minted successful entrepreneurs have had a
17:28
Speaker 3: dance with death and in most cases they're I mean,
17:32
Speaker 3: they are documented, right, and they're real and visceral dances
17:37
Speaker 3: with death and they survive right, Which is a very
17:40
Speaker 3: difficult sort of thing to process as an entrepreneur, because
17:45
Speaker 3: when you are approaching a point where it feels like
17:47
Speaker 3: failure is inevitable. You have to ask yourself, is this
17:51
Speaker 3: failure or is this the dance?
17:54
Speaker 2: How does an investor identify they've got a bunch of
17:58
Speaker 2: money in a startup? How do they tell the difference?
18:01
Speaker 2: I mean SOUPI was a pretty famous example where investors
18:05
Speaker 2: ended up pulling the plug because they felt like perhaps
18:08
Speaker 2: there was nowhere else for it to go. How is
18:11
Speaker 2: that decision made from that end?
18:13
Speaker 3: I think the one thing that we rely on the
18:15
Speaker 3: most is the perspective of the founder. Right, if they're
18:19
Speaker 3: waving the white flag, even if you think the business
18:21
Speaker 3: is going well, you got to go right. Because these
18:25
Speaker 3: this is not private equity. We don't take controlling stakes.
18:28
Speaker 3: We are investors that elevate and empower founders and their teams,
18:33
Speaker 3: and we rely on them to deliver exceptionally and pull
18:38
Speaker 3: off things that are very difficult to imagine. So if
18:42
Speaker 3: a company sorry, if a founder is saying we don't
18:45
Speaker 3: have this anymore, that's when you pull the plug, right,
18:48
Speaker 3: That's when it becomes very obvious. Three times this year,
18:52
Speaker 3: if you had asked me the day before I found
18:54
Speaker 3: out news, will the company survive? The answer would have
18:57
Speaker 3: been no. Founders pull off some remarks pivots and changes
19:01
Speaker 3: and commercial successes. And in each of those cases, we
19:06
Speaker 3: were there trying to provide the support and resources and encouragement,
19:11
Speaker 3: but there wasn't more capital going in.
19:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, obviously, you know, it's not always wins. We talked
19:17
Speaker 2: about Soupie that was a pretty high profile case because
19:20
Speaker 2: of the market that they were in, but there have
19:22
Speaker 2: been a few other cases as well, particular ones that
19:25
Speaker 2: have pitched at Showcase. So Caldera Health, sun Fed Meats
19:30
Speaker 2: was reasonably big neriad as well, was reasonably well publicized.
19:36
Speaker 2: You know, you said there was no commonality or there
19:38
Speaker 2: was no causation that you could find with the startups
19:40
Speaker 2: that were really successful. What do you see as some
19:43
Speaker 2: of the things that maybe link startups that aren't so successful.
19:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I actually did a fair amount of work
19:51
Speaker 3: on all the companies that we had had fail over
19:53
Speaker 3: twenty years, and all the companies that had sold. The
19:55
Speaker 3: failures total across the whole portfolio is about fifty of
19:58
Speaker 3: three hundred and thirty, and positive is about twenty five
20:03
Speaker 3: or high twenties, right, And I tried to say, well,
20:07
Speaker 3: let's pick on a few perspectives that people have that
20:12
Speaker 3: they assume will lead to success or failure.
20:15
Speaker 4: Right. One I think that we could.
20:17
Speaker 3: Observes as a relative pattern in the companies that have
20:23
Speaker 3: failed is when they don't demonstrably have nor is there
20:27
Speaker 3: evidence that they could create global competitive advantage.
20:32
Speaker 4: Right.
20:32
Speaker 3: So this sort of copycat type of play is a
20:36
Speaker 3: very difficult one to translate into an exceedingly large business.
20:40
Speaker 3: Of course, randomly in this country we have one of
20:44
Speaker 3: the greatest copycats ever that which was trade me eBay
20:49
Speaker 3: that became like the cornerstone of venture capital in New Zealand.
20:52
Speaker 3: And full credit to them because they fought off a
20:57
Speaker 3: you know, a very large incumbent and built a lot
20:59
Speaker 3: of value. But among the thirty companies that sorry, among
21:04
Speaker 3: the fifty or so companies total that had failed, relative
21:08
Speaker 3: to the thirty that has succeeded, you could see in
21:11
Speaker 3: those ones that had failed a higher ratio of companies
21:15
Speaker 3: that really didn't have a global competitive edge.
21:19
Speaker 4: Right.
21:20
Speaker 3: And so as a result of that, they can't capture
21:22
Speaker 3: as much market, they can't capture as many as much capital,
21:26
Speaker 3: and on and on it goes, and they can just
21:28
Speaker 3: get usurped by the bigger players.
21:31
Speaker 2: What about the case of you know, neriad that was
21:33
Speaker 2: a fairly unique company. They had a really great proposition,
21:37
Speaker 2: but it turned out that the market didn't really eventuate.
21:40
Speaker 2: Is that something that's common.
21:42
Speaker 4: Yeah. Absolutely.
21:44
Speaker 3: You can have sort of like a consumer or regulatory change,
21:49
Speaker 3: or just market sort of shifts that are very difficult
21:52
Speaker 3: to predict, right, And you have to appreciate that most
21:57
Speaker 3: of the time when we're investing in a company, eat
22:00
Speaker 3: stage company is zero years old, right, maybe one year old,
22:04
Speaker 3: and they are if they are to become successful, the
22:09
Speaker 3: likelihood that they are selling into a market with a
22:12
Speaker 3: model that is known and exists today is extremely low.
22:17
Speaker 4: Right.
22:18
Speaker 3: In fact, most of the companies that become consequential have
22:21
Speaker 3: almost built ecosystems or business models or industries. So yeah,
22:26
Speaker 3: there are certainly times where people just didn't see how
22:30
Speaker 3: something was going to change. I don't know if that's
22:32
Speaker 3: necessarily near Yad's case. They I think directionally were correct
22:38
Speaker 3: and execution was a real challenge.
22:40
Speaker 2: You've had a couple of IPOs, one of them Martin Jetpack,
22:45
Speaker 2: which is you know cool in the name.
22:48
Speaker 3: Well, look, Martin Jetpack was at the very first showcase.
22:52
Speaker 3: They're a very unique one. I mean, I think we
22:55
Speaker 3: like to say at showcases. We want it to be
22:59
Speaker 3: a bit of an intellec actual roller coaster, and we
23:01
Speaker 3: want a real diverse mix of companies, so not all
23:05
Speaker 3: early stage, not all late stage, not all medical devices,
23:07
Speaker 3: not all software. Right, and and Martin Jetpek was certainly
23:12
Speaker 3: a wild card, and most people will know that went
23:15
Speaker 3: on a crazy ride after that where it's sort of
23:18
Speaker 3: brought in a strategic player, listed and and then became
23:24
Speaker 3: a failure. I think when people are conceptualizing, you know,
23:29
Speaker 3: this sort of final destination. First, I don't know if
23:33
Speaker 3: there is a final destination, right. You sort of in
23:37
Speaker 3: the startup world, you're always building and aiming higher and
23:39
Speaker 3: so on, unless it's literally an all cash exit and
23:43
Speaker 3: and everybody sells out and it you know, is packaged
23:45
Speaker 3: up into a different company. But so Martin jetpack was
23:50
Speaker 3: like a really, at the time pretty crazy concept. We
23:54
Speaker 3: gave them a shot on stage, and and credit to
23:58
Speaker 3: them for what they were trying to build. And I
24:01
Speaker 3: think some version of what they were aspiring to build
24:06
Speaker 3: will become reality, right but probably forty years after they
24:09
Speaker 3: were working on it.
24:10
Speaker 2: Well, that's the That's another downside of being a trailblazer
24:13
Speaker 2: sometimes is that the technology isn't there for what you
24:16
Speaker 2: want to do. We're talking about exit as well, you know,
24:19
Speaker 2: I mean that really is one of the one of
24:21
Speaker 2: the big goals for startups and for startup investors is
24:25
Speaker 2: to see great exits of their companies. And a famous
24:30
Speaker 2: one we have power by proxy, you know, a huge
24:32
Speaker 2: exit to Apple. What's your take on the idea of that.
24:36
Speaker 2: When a New Zealand company is acquired by a big
24:38
Speaker 2: overseas company, it's somehow a loss to New Zealand.
24:43
Speaker 3: Well, the good news is in that reference is it
24:45
Speaker 3: is a complete contradiction to that theory. So if anybody
24:49
Speaker 3: has the theory, reference power by proxy as the counter
24:53
Speaker 3: to that. Right like a mile from here are more
24:56
Speaker 3: than one hundred people that are in very high paid
24:59
Speaker 3: jobs that are now powering wireless power across all Apple
25:04
Speaker 3: products in Auckland, right so, and some of the early
25:10
Speaker 3: investors and early founders of that company are very significant
25:15
Speaker 3: supporters of the next generation of companies. Right now, I'd
25:20
Speaker 3: say the greater risk is not that a company sells
25:24
Speaker 3: and then the sort of value is lost. The greater
25:27
Speaker 3: risk is that the ecosystem doesn't provide the right elements
25:32
Speaker 3: to keep people here enable them to be funded such
25:35
Speaker 3: that when they do reach a final destination, if we're
25:39
Speaker 3: not successful, most of that value to be captured by
25:41
Speaker 3: offshore investors.
25:43
Speaker 4: Right.
25:43
Speaker 3: We want more kiwis to be more financially aligned to
25:46
Speaker 3: the success of Kiwi companies.
25:48
Speaker 2: There's also, you know, from that as well, the idea
25:50
Speaker 2: that like you mentioned, all of these power by proxy
25:53
Speaker 2: employees that have gone on to do to go back
25:57
Speaker 2: into the e statup ecosystem and add value. How have
26:01
Speaker 2: you seen that play out? Are you seeing that recycling
26:04
Speaker 2: of talent in New Zealand or are we losing a
26:06
Speaker 2: lot of people overseas.
26:07
Speaker 3: Or there's so much recycling of talent and there's so
26:10
Speaker 3: much goodwill and energy and capital and networks and resources
26:15
Speaker 3: being given back by Kiwi's here and abroad that have
26:20
Speaker 3: built experience and everything else. So it is extremely vibrant now,
26:25
Speaker 3: I alike in recycling of talent, which would be say
26:31
Speaker 3: Peterbeck starts a company, he grows it, he builds capability,
26:35
Speaker 3: and then Craig Piggot's working at rocket Lab and Pete says, hey,
26:39
Speaker 3: I'll back you, and then with Pete we invest in Halter.
26:42
Speaker 3: Right that that sort of recycling talent that was about
26:46
Speaker 3: a seven year maybe ten year journey, right, And I
26:50
Speaker 3: liken that too, those types of animals that went extinct
26:55
Speaker 3: because they only breed every seven years, right, And so
27:00
Speaker 3: in the wrong environment, you could destroy the whole population
27:04
Speaker 3: because there's only one chance for an egg to hatch
27:07
Speaker 3: every seven years.
27:08
Speaker 4: But of course, with the right ingredients in the right settings.
27:14
Speaker 3: Those populations can proliferate, and it just needs time, right,
27:20
Speaker 3: And that's what we're seeing right.
27:21
Speaker 2: One of the things that I've heard before is that
27:23
Speaker 2: if you are an entrepreneur who's wanting to do a startup,
27:28
Speaker 2: but you aren't coming out of an established startup or
27:32
Speaker 2: a you know, don't have venture links or don't have
27:35
Speaker 2: a big wallet at your own back to your own experience,
27:38
Speaker 2: but you're just a young person with an idea and
27:40
Speaker 2: a dream, it can be really hard to find the
27:43
Speaker 2: resources to kind of support that dream, to think about
27:47
Speaker 2: how you actually get into it. What are some things
27:50
Speaker 2: that are available for people who may be coming a
27:54
Speaker 2: bit out of the blue, who are interested in the
27:57
Speaker 2: startup entrepreneurship dream.
27:59
Speaker 4: Look.
28:00
Speaker 3: The job as a founder is to rally lots of
28:02
Speaker 3: different types of people around a mission right, And so
28:05
Speaker 3: that you need to obviously rally investors if you need capital.
28:09
Speaker 3: You also need to be able to rally people who
28:12
Speaker 3: will commit their nights and weekends to building this company
28:16
Speaker 3: for potentially nothing, right, And you need to rally potential
28:21
Speaker 3: customers or trial users and so on. And so when
28:27
Speaker 3: it comes down to starting it in the resources that
28:30
Speaker 3: are available, the most amazing asset that's available is the
28:35
Speaker 3: willingness of keyping entrepreneurs to speak to other keyping entrepreneurs, right.
28:38
Speaker 3: And I don't think you need to spend time watching
28:42
Speaker 3: YouTube videos or or learning from you know, Jeff Bezos
28:48
Speaker 3: right about the amazing business that is Amazon today. I
28:52
Speaker 3: think you need to get in front of and learn
28:55
Speaker 3: from people that are just a few steps ahead of
28:57
Speaker 3: you in their entrepreneurial journey, who don't have any agenda,
29:02
Speaker 3: who are generally receptive to helping others and sharing their knowledge,
29:08
Speaker 3: and they can solve a lot of problems and move
29:11
Speaker 3: a lot of mountains for you. So go straight to founders.
29:15
Speaker 3: They're not hard to find, They're on LinkedIn, right, and
29:18
Speaker 3: they're willing to take a call.
29:20
Speaker 2: And what about the other side, If you're somebody who
29:23
Speaker 2: has done some maybe traditional investing, maybe some property or
29:27
Speaker 2: some term deposits, and you're starting to think about maybe
29:31
Speaker 2: looking at angel or getting being an LP and a fund.
29:36
Speaker 2: What are some good ways to get started to think
29:40
Speaker 2: about that?
29:41
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think education is like a critical element to it, right,
29:44
Speaker 3: And part of education with investment is coming to appreciate
29:49
Speaker 3: sort of what venture is, how it fits within your
29:53
Speaker 3: overall sort of portfolio, how it aligns to your risk
29:56
Speaker 3: preferences and your time horizons and your liquidity requirements.
29:59
Speaker 4: I mean, there's a lot to consider there.
30:01
Speaker 3: And you know, nowadays there's there are plenty of entities
30:05
Speaker 3: that will uh share views on that and provide training
30:10
Speaker 3: and and and uh introduce you to companies and all that.
30:15
Speaker 3: And I guess the yeah, key piece of advice is,
30:18
Speaker 3: you know, take it slow, don't fall in love on
30:22
Speaker 3: the sort of first glance, right, learn to compare different
30:27
Speaker 3: options and different fund managers, and and once you've got
30:31
Speaker 3: the foundational sort of perspectives, then lead with your heart, right,
30:35
Speaker 3: which is am I most passionate about young entrepreneurs? Or
30:40
Speaker 3: am I only wanting to invest in companies that can
30:43
Speaker 3: have a positive impact on the environment or or whatever
30:45
Speaker 3: it may be?
30:46
Speaker 4: Right?
30:47
Speaker 3: But but do that once you've really uh sort of
30:52
Speaker 3: quizzed us.
30:52
Speaker 4: Or or any number of other people.
30:54
Speaker 3: In the ecosystem on on sort of how this sort
30:57
Speaker 3: of works for you.
31:05
Speaker 2: One of the challenges at the moment, you know, we
31:06
Speaker 2: talk about the constrained capital, that there's less access to capital.
31:11
Speaker 2: I'm not entirely sure that's true in the case of
31:14
Speaker 2: New Zealand specifically because a VC seen was so young
31:19
Speaker 2: that it has grown a lot recently. But when it
31:23
Speaker 2: comes to you know, science research, for example, is really
31:27
Speaker 2: hard lately to find support for that from grants and
31:32
Speaker 2: things like that. Like are you concerned about where we're
31:35
Speaker 2: heading in terms of the future, considering the economic space
31:40
Speaker 2: that we're in.
31:41
Speaker 3: I walk a sort of like a line between like
31:44
Speaker 3: just like yeah, realism and just the sheer fact that
31:50
Speaker 3: New Zealand is underinvested in R and D right, and
31:53
Speaker 3: it's got an uphill battle to be globally competitive with
31:57
Speaker 3: total optimism that entrepreneurs come from everywhere, does not matter
32:02
Speaker 3: the macro challenges that exist, a tyranny of distance, not
32:08
Speaker 3: enough capital, not enough talent, like those have been stated
32:13
Speaker 3: for sixteen years since I've been involved, and yet rocket
32:17
Speaker 3: Lab started right Crimson is a billion dollar company, right
32:22
Speaker 3: zero is winning on a global stage, and Lansattech is
32:26
Speaker 3: crushing it. So you have these companies from all different
32:29
Speaker 3: walks of life, started by all different types of people
32:34
Speaker 3: throughout time where there were plenty of arguments why it
32:38
Speaker 3: was too hard, or it wouldn't work right and or
32:41
Speaker 3: there's not enough of this, or not a big enough
32:43
Speaker 3: tax cut, or this policy wasn't gonna help or whatever. Like,
32:47
Speaker 3: entrepreneurs are a very specific breed, and you know they
32:50
Speaker 3: sort of say, oh, you think those are problems, like
32:52
Speaker 3: hold my beer, I'll shave you.
32:53
Speaker 4: I'll share your problems.
32:54
Speaker 2: One of the criticisms around the start up of VC
32:57
Speaker 2: scene is that people can kind of get caught up
33:01
Speaker 2: and hype and you end up with a whole bunch
33:03
Speaker 2: of proliferation of startups in one area, a bunch of
33:06
Speaker 2: money gets thrown at them, and then only if you
33:09
Speaker 2: remain and everybody goes, oh, there's this big this is exciting.
33:14
Speaker 2: Oh no, it's a bubble. Oh no, it's popped, and
33:16
Speaker 2: this just kind of repeats. I was talking to somebody
33:19
Speaker 2: the other day, one of your representatives, and they said
33:21
Speaker 2: that ice House has managed to kind of avoid that
33:24
Speaker 2: trend based investing. Was that something that you've done intentionally
33:28
Speaker 2: or is that just a byproduct of, you know, a
33:31
Speaker 2: philosophy around investing.
33:33
Speaker 3: Well, if you look at the companies that have become
33:35
Speaker 3: really consequential, usually they didn't jump into a trend, they
33:41
Speaker 3: created a trend, right, And so, I mean twenty years
33:45
Speaker 3: ago in my internship, I remember looking at all these
33:50
Speaker 3: sort of permutations of social media networks. Right now, why
33:54
Speaker 3: was that happening? Because Facebook had one hundred million users
33:59
Speaker 3: at that point, whatever it was like, they were taking off.
34:02
Speaker 3: And so I do have a general allergy to jumping
34:06
Speaker 3: on any bandwagons, right, And so certainly a lot of
34:10
Speaker 3: questions have been around, oh are you investing in AI?
34:13
Speaker 3: And the answer is yeah, we invested in the AI
34:16
Speaker 3: data company in twenty twelve, right, and that is becoming
34:20
Speaker 3: more interesting and hopefully there's some real tailwinds now that
34:24
Speaker 3: they're sort of a market perspective that's changed. But if
34:27
Speaker 3: a company today says their AI, the first question is, well, cool,
34:32
Speaker 3: how long have you been working on whatever your business is?
34:35
Speaker 3: Because if it started today, unless you were researching it
34:38
Speaker 3: and now you've started a business, it's probably not of interest.
34:41
Speaker 3: I mean, half of our companies are hardware and product,
34:45
Speaker 3: you know, sort of hard tech, so those can be
34:48
Speaker 3: you know, the development of those can be accelerated by AI.
34:51
Speaker 3: The rollout of them, the testing, right, the conceptualization of it,
34:57
Speaker 3: the innovation within them can all be empowered by better compute.
35:01
Speaker 4: Right.
35:02
Speaker 3: And then the question is sort of as a venture investor,
35:06
Speaker 3: especially seed stage investor, where do you stand to generate
35:11
Speaker 3: the most yield?
35:12
Speaker 4: Right?
35:12
Speaker 3: And I think it's a difficult question to answer right
35:16
Speaker 3: now whether or not there will be a plethora of
35:19
Speaker 3: sort of seed stage startups that are taking very small
35:22
Speaker 3: slices of it, or if AI will just permeate all companies.
35:27
Speaker 4: Right.
35:27
Speaker 3: And it was maybe similar to what cloud computing was,
35:32
Speaker 3: which was first people didn't know what it was, and
35:36
Speaker 3: then it was this real novelty, and then it was
35:39
Speaker 3: ubiquitous and if you were not cloud, you were questioned.
35:43
Speaker 3: And so yeah, every company is harnessing AI in various
35:49
Speaker 3: forms already and smart ones. I've been for a long time,
35:53
Speaker 3: long before you know, a consumer could sort of ask
35:55
Speaker 3: some novel questions to a bunch of code.
35:59
Speaker 2: I remember it was maybe six years ago even that
36:03
Speaker 2: people were going, we're born in the cloud. We're cloud first,
36:07
Speaker 2: and that was kind of the mark of the mark
36:09
Speaker 2: of progress. Yeah, now it's the same AI first and
36:15
Speaker 2: the same the same words with a different now and
36:18
Speaker 2: switched in. So yeah, it must be difficult to navigate
36:23
Speaker 2: that a little bit when you're leading a fund or
36:27
Speaker 2: funds and you've got partners going, Hey, what's this exciting
36:32
Speaker 2: thing over here? Why aren't we putting all of our
36:35
Speaker 2: money over here? What are those conversations like?
36:38
Speaker 3: I mean, we just indexed so heavily on the pedigree
36:40
Speaker 3: of the people that are running the businesses that in
36:45
Speaker 3: some ways we're sort of we're not picking an area
36:49
Speaker 3: in which we may want to invest. We're biasing towards
36:52
Speaker 3: founders who are spending their days and nights and have
36:55
Speaker 3: been for a decade working on an area that merits investment.
36:59
Speaker 3: And so that I think makes life a little bit
37:03
Speaker 3: more straightforward. Right, you start with people who've thought much
37:07
Speaker 3: more deeply than you about whatever the business it is,
37:11
Speaker 3: zinc recycling, right, foiling fairies. I mean, there's only one
37:17
Speaker 3: example recently where somebody pressed me to pick a sort
37:23
Speaker 3: of like an area that I was interested in, and
37:27
Speaker 3: I described energy density and batteries, right, because that's a
37:31
Speaker 3: real limiting factor for electrification of many things. And then
37:37
Speaker 3: a company came along and it was like, Okay, well
37:40
Speaker 3: we have to invest in that because we were thinking
37:42
Speaker 3: about that.
37:43
Speaker 4: Yeah.
37:43
Speaker 3: But generally, especially at the earliest stages, you're backing founders
37:49
Speaker 3: who have well formed hypotheses, and you can only have
37:53
Speaker 3: those having thought very deeply or researched very significantly or
37:57
Speaker 3: felt a very pronounced pain in a space to sort
38:01
Speaker 3: of inform it.
38:03
Speaker 2: What are your let's say we're having this conversation, it's
38:07
Speaker 2: twenty thirty for you've got another ten showcases under your belt.
38:11
Speaker 2: And I know this is always an unfair question to
38:14
Speaker 2: ask because it's an impossible question, but what are your
38:16
Speaker 2: kind of hopes for where New Zealand's startup scene will
38:20
Speaker 2: be in ten years?
38:23
Speaker 3: One aspiration is that more and more of the people
38:27
Speaker 3: that are in the room are ones that have been
38:30
Speaker 3: deeply engaged in entrepreneurial journeys. And you can see it
38:33
Speaker 3: right like the sort of ratio of the people at
38:36
Speaker 3: the tables. You can see it in the profile of
38:40
Speaker 3: the wealthiest people in this country that more and more
38:44
Speaker 3: folks have generated real consequential companies by building transformational tech, right,
38:52
Speaker 3: And I think the beautiful thing about entrepreneurship is it
38:57
Speaker 3: is just this is this voracious I've to solve real problems.
39:02
Speaker 3: And so that's why I approach most things with a
39:04
Speaker 3: fair amount of optimism, because most of the problems that
39:09
Speaker 3: we're facing today can be translated into very significant opportunities
39:12
Speaker 3: for entrepreneurs and businesses moving forward. And then I think
39:20
Speaker 3: you're seeing just this sort of compounding nature of venture capital,
39:25
Speaker 3: of people learning, taking those learnings, applying it again, doing more,
39:30
Speaker 3: achieving more, aiming higher, and on and on and on.
39:32
Speaker 3: And so there's irrespective of what we do as Ice
39:38
Speaker 3: House Ventures or the government does, or universities or whatever,
39:42
Speaker 3: there is an absolute certain tsunami of talent and aspiration
39:46
Speaker 3: in entrepreneurship. And and so we just hope that we
39:49
Speaker 3: can be around to sort of celebrate it and be
39:51
Speaker 3: a part of it.
39:51
Speaker 1: In a decade, some really interesting stuff in there. Being
39:59
Speaker 1: very upfront about some of those failures like Soupy Caldaris,
40:03
Speaker 1: Sunfed Nearad, Yeah, that's really sad in hindsight. You know,
40:06
Speaker 1: we've talked about and covered those companies and seemed very
40:10
Speaker 1: promising in their own rights at one point. But this
40:12
Speaker 1: is the game that Robbie Paul and his contemporaries around
40:16
Speaker 1: the industry are in. They know that off a portfolio
40:19
Speaker 1: of ten companies, the majority of them are probably going
40:22
Speaker 1: to fail, at least not deliver on the expectations that
40:28
Speaker 1: the VC companies have when they put money into them.
40:31
Speaker 1: I really liked what he was saying about, you know,
40:33
Speaker 1: not jumping on bandwagons and fads and AI. It's the
40:38
Speaker 1: pedigree of the people, that's what he said. And you
40:42
Speaker 1: just see that really maturing and improving as this industry develops.
40:48
Speaker 1: The fact that you've got founders now whom sure they're
40:51
Speaker 1: still going through the same university courses and exposed to
40:55
Speaker 1: the same sort of ideas and education, but you've got
40:58
Speaker 1: this network of people around them who can spot that
41:02
Speaker 1: talent and then put them on that pathway to success
41:05
Speaker 1: with mentoring and support. And as you were saying, you know,
41:09
Speaker 1: some of these partners who really play quite a hands
41:12
Speaker 1: on role in companies. Some of them even go and
41:16
Speaker 1: are embedded in those companies for a while because they
41:18
Speaker 1: really need essentially a CEO or a CFO type person
41:22
Speaker 1: at a particular point in time. So that's the value
41:26
Speaker 1: that's been added, and because of the success of some
41:29
Speaker 1: of these companies, that is sort of recycling around the industry,
41:32
Speaker 1: which is great to see.
41:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, the focus on people that Robbie was talking about
41:37
Speaker 2: is fantastic to kind of get your head around. You know,
41:42
Speaker 2: we hear so much about the amazing stuff that the
41:44
Speaker 2: companies are doing, and the big numbers get thrown around
41:47
Speaker 2: and the excitement and the fervor and all that, but
41:51
Speaker 2: it must be a huge challenge to actually look at
41:54
Speaker 2: people and go, I believe that you can take this
41:58
Speaker 2: into something that is spectacle. So how do you actually
42:01
Speaker 2: do that as an investor? And Robbie talking about that
42:06
Speaker 2: founder analysis side of the stuff that he does, I
42:10
Speaker 2: thought was really interesting. And then conversely thinking about when
42:15
Speaker 2: as an investor you have to decide that actually, we
42:19
Speaker 2: can't keep going on something like with Soupy unfortunately, the
42:25
Speaker 2: role that the founder plays and even that decision as well,
42:29
Speaker 2: I found even a little bit surprising, because, you know,
42:31
Speaker 2: to me, it felt like when these startups fail, it's
42:35
Speaker 2: usually the investors going no, no more. But Robbie saying, well,
42:39
Speaker 2: it's the investors are taking their cues from the founder
42:41
Speaker 2: at the end of the day.
42:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know he talked about at least one
42:46
Speaker 1: company where they thought it was going to go to
42:48
Speaker 1: the wall and the founder said, look, you give me
42:52
Speaker 1: a bit of time to try and pull something together,
42:54
Speaker 1: and then they were able to do that and raise
42:56
Speaker 1: subsequently quite a lot of money. So great to hear
42:59
Speaker 1: those sorts of stories. So it's not as clear cut
43:01
Speaker 1: as that. Interesting to hear about the likes of the
43:04
Speaker 1: Martin jetpack and why companies ultimately fail. No global competitive
43:12
Speaker 1: edge really is one of the key reasons cited, and
43:17
Speaker 1: that really goes to We've had numerous startup founders on
43:21
Speaker 1: the podcasts, including the founder of Black Pearl Group, a
43:25
Speaker 1: listed tech company on the nz X, who basically said,
43:29
Speaker 1: I'm global from day one. I went to the US
43:31
Speaker 1: first because if I don't succeed in the US, I
43:34
Speaker 1: cannot achieve my ambitions for this company. And that's the
43:39
Speaker 1: mantra from Robbie Paul and others as well as we're
43:41
Speaker 1: too small to focus on our own country. So the
43:43
Speaker 1: likes a whole to sure. They tested and prototypes and
43:48
Speaker 1: validated their technology on dairy farms in New Zealand, but
43:51
Speaker 1: they're now into beef in the US and in Europe
43:54
Speaker 1: as well. That's the real prize for them. Also last
43:57
Speaker 1: week some other stats came out about ice House ventures.
44:01
Speaker 1: They're really big fund. It's called Growth Fund one, which
44:05
Speaker 1: was set up in twenty twenty one, and you know,
44:09
Speaker 1: those ventures included in that fund have raised one hundred
44:12
Speaker 1: and ten million. That's in twenty twenty one, they raised
44:18
Speaker 1: one hundred and ten million. Since then, ninety point two
44:21
Speaker 1: million has been invested across thirty two companies and those
44:25
Speaker 1: companies are valued at one hundred and six million. So
44:28
Speaker 1: it sort of shows that's that's big money now. And
44:31
Speaker 1: this is just one fund and one venture capital firm
44:34
Speaker 1: in New Zealand. There are lots of other VC firms
44:36
Speaker 1: as well, so there's the serious capital going into our
44:39
Speaker 1: early stage of businesses now. But it also shows that
44:42
Speaker 1: you know, this is going to take a few years.
44:44
Speaker 1: You know, they have a horizon for these companies to
44:47
Speaker 1: deliver the value and some of them to exit. But
44:50
Speaker 1: at the moment they're valued at one hundred and six
44:52
Speaker 1: million dollars and you can see that growing if the
44:55
Speaker 1: stats they've been quoting for over the last thirteen years.
44:59
Speaker 1: You know, those companies that are now collectively having raised
45:03
Speaker 1: nearly two billion dollars. We can see that one hundred
45:05
Speaker 1: and six million dollars becoming a lot more over the
45:09
Speaker 1: next few years.
45:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like that. It's like the old dudes in
45:11
Speaker 2: the mainland. Dad said, good things take time. You can't
45:16
Speaker 2: just expect returns on overnight. And when you when you're
45:18
Speaker 2: trying to literally grow a company to be something that
45:22
Speaker 2: is returning massive amounts, it's you need scale, you need money,
45:26
Speaker 2: you need you need time. Yeah, and I think that
45:29
Speaker 2: anybody who gets into startup investing with the idea that
45:32
Speaker 2: it's going to be quick returns is going to be
45:35
Speaker 2: very quickly taught the opposite.
45:37
Speaker 1: Yeah. So credit to them for putting some of these
45:41
Speaker 1: stats together and giving us a bit more of a
45:43
Speaker 1: bigger picture snapshot. You usually only hear about the successes
45:47
Speaker 1: and sort of in isolation when they have a story
45:50
Speaker 1: they want to tell to trying to track more investment.
45:53
Speaker 1: But they've you know, they've got the confidence now at
45:55
Speaker 1: ice House Ventures, they've done so much and had so
45:58
Speaker 1: much success and yes, failures as well. Telling these stories
46:02
Speaker 1: I think is going to give Not only are our
46:05
Speaker 1: other VC companies based locally but offshore investors more confidence
46:09
Speaker 1: to put money into New Zealand. So that's a great thing.
46:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, Well that's it for this week's episode. Big
46:15
Speaker 2: thanks to Robbie Paul for taking the time to come
46:17
Speaker 2: on the Business of Tech.
46:19
Speaker 1: Subscribe to get all episodes off the podcast in your
46:22
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46:26
Speaker 1: every episode. Show notes for the Business of Tech are
46:29
Speaker 1: in the Tech section on the Business Desk website.
46:31
Speaker 2: Get in touch with your feedback, your ideas, your topics
46:34
Speaker 2: and your guest suggestions. You can email me ben business
46:37
Speaker 2: Desk dot co dot NZAD. We'll find both of us
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Speaker 2: on LinkedIn and x.
46:42
Speaker 1: And another dose of the Business of Tech coming your
46:45
Speaker 1: way next Thursday.
46:46
Speaker 2: We'll catch you that