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The Toxic Workplace at Activision Blizzard · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm not going to
0:07
Speaker 1: stuff I never told your production of iHeart Radio. Today,
0:18
Speaker 1: we are once again joined by our good friend and
0:21
Speaker 1: the amazing, wonderful Bridget Todd. Thank you so much for
0:26
Speaker 1: joining us, Bridget, Oh, thanks for having me. Y'all always
0:28
Speaker 1: give me the most warm welcomes. I love the intros
0:32
Speaker 1: because they're so happy to love you. We are so
0:35
Speaker 1: excited to have you. Yes, So, Bridget, do you have
0:38
Speaker 1: any fun things on the horizon, any plans coming up? Yes? Well,
0:42
Speaker 1: the most fun things I have on the horizon is
0:45
Speaker 1: that my partner and I do this thing every holiday
0:47
Speaker 1: season that we call weirdo Christmas, and we actually, hope
0:51
Speaker 1: I think that everybody should should try it out. Weird
0:54
Speaker 1: No Christmas is an activity that we do where after Thanksgiving,
0:58
Speaker 1: but before Christmas, we go on our own little solo
1:01
Speaker 1: trip just sort of, you know, have fun before the
1:04
Speaker 1: official holiday season, and we bring costumes and lights and
1:09
Speaker 1: just have a weird time. And it's just a fun
1:12
Speaker 1: way to sort of if you're if you're from a
1:14
Speaker 1: traditional family that does Christmas in a very traditional way,
1:17
Speaker 1: can this be a fun way to counterbalance that? So
1:20
Speaker 1: weirdo Christmas coming up, very excited. Oh, I love it.
1:24
Speaker 1: What kind of costumes you got? Planned? My? The last
1:27
Speaker 1: time I but we did this, I wore a fur
1:29
Speaker 1: hat and a fur vest and fur boots. It was
1:32
Speaker 1: like a fur theme. Double down on the fur again. Yeah.
1:40
Speaker 1: I encourage people to like whatever you know, your weirdness
1:44
Speaker 1: looks like. Just because people are like weirdos or non
1:47
Speaker 1: traditionalist doesn't mean that we can't also enjoy like holiday
1:50
Speaker 1: cheer and festivity and so um. I used to always
1:53
Speaker 1: feel a little alienated around Christmas time, you know. I
1:56
Speaker 1: felt like if I wasn't doing something super traditional around
1:59
Speaker 1: the holidays, like you basically didn't have any way to celebrate.
2:02
Speaker 1: And that's not true because you can always celebrate your Christmas.
2:06
Speaker 1: I love this. Yeah. I will say like, as a
2:11
Speaker 1: person who does not love the holidays in general, doing
2:14
Speaker 1: something completely off the cuff, it sounds better, especially if
2:18
Speaker 1: you can establish it yourself, I will say, ay. And
2:20
Speaker 1: I seem to do kind of that for New Year's
2:23
Speaker 1: where we dress up as something random, like I have
2:26
Speaker 1: a couple of onesies that I like to put on,
2:28
Speaker 1: and we will cheers each other through. Whether it's like
2:31
Speaker 1: us pictures or text, but we're wearing costumes usually. I
2:41
Speaker 1: don't know why, we just kind of like we give
2:43
Speaker 1: upon going out, let's do this instead. I think it's
2:45
Speaker 1: because New Year's is such a I've had great New
2:49
Speaker 1: Year's but generally I feel like the pressure is very
2:52
Speaker 1: intense and it's always a mess. And so I was
2:55
Speaker 1: kind of like, I want to stay in. I'm going
2:57
Speaker 1: to read my fan fiction. And then and it became
3:00
Speaker 1: we'll wear onesies and drink champagne at midnight and cheer
3:05
Speaker 1: it's each other. See. I love that because just because
3:08
Speaker 1: you're not somebody who is interested in spending hundreds of
3:10
Speaker 1: dollars to have a you know, less than stellar night
3:14
Speaker 1: on New Year's Eve doesn't mean that you should get
3:16
Speaker 1: to miss out on like New Year's Eve holiday merriment.
3:18
Speaker 1: Like that's exactly this in the spirit of a weirdo Christmas.
3:22
Speaker 1: That you should, like not wanting to do the traditional
3:25
Speaker 1: thing that everybody does doesn't mean that you should just
3:27
Speaker 1: be boxed out of getting to, you know, have festivity
3:30
Speaker 1: in merriment. So I like this, we need to we
3:32
Speaker 1: need to roll in. We'll do weird no Christmas, We're
3:34
Speaker 1: no New Year's hopefully a calendar going. Yes, there, we
3:42
Speaker 1: want to be a Google calendar. Let's go. I love it.
3:44
Speaker 1: I think we should sell one. Let's make money off.
3:50
Speaker 1: So I also wanted to before we dive into this topic,
3:52
Speaker 1: which I'm both very excited and very like anxious slash
3:57
Speaker 1: nervous slash angry to talk about. I wanted to talk
4:00
Speaker 1: about I'm I'm a very big gamer. I think a
4:02
Speaker 1: lot of the listeners know that I've always played video games,
4:05
Speaker 1: and I've always played in quote traditional video games, being
4:10
Speaker 1: like Nintendo Supernintendo PlayStation, like those kind of console video games,
4:14
Speaker 1: and I have a lot of history and experience with that.
4:16
Speaker 1: But I wanted to ask the both of you what
4:20
Speaker 1: your experience with gaming at large, not just console gaming is.
4:26
Speaker 1: I've always thought that was the one of the coolest
4:28
Speaker 1: things about you, Annie, is how into console game and
4:31
Speaker 1: you are. I wish that I was. I aspired to be.
4:34
Speaker 1: I don't really play much these days. When I was younger,
4:37
Speaker 1: I really liked the world of Warcraft. Going back even further,
4:41
Speaker 1: I was very much into like Super Nintendo when the
4:44
Speaker 1: when the pandemic first started, we got one of those
4:47
Speaker 1: I guess what you an emulator? I don't know what
4:49
Speaker 1: you call it, but like to be able to play
4:51
Speaker 1: old Sega games and old Supernintendo games on our TV.
4:55
Speaker 1: And I remember and I was like, oh my gosh,
4:56
Speaker 1: how much I loved, how much I loved and was
4:59
Speaker 1: obsessed with that was growing up, but these days not
5:02
Speaker 1: not so much. I'm so curious, say on what your
5:05
Speaker 1: relationship to TED gaming has looked like. Um, I would
5:08
Speaker 1: be the boomer who did not understand and does not
5:12
Speaker 1: understand these games to the point that I still ask
5:15
Speaker 1: both Annie and my partner like, okay, so the point
5:18
Speaker 1: of this game is a B C D and then
5:21
Speaker 1: just sit there and look at them puzzled. I do.
5:24
Speaker 1: That's a lot because I still have to ask, especially
5:27
Speaker 1: when it comes to console games, a lot of questions.
5:29
Speaker 1: I never really grew into that really cared about it
5:32
Speaker 1: much growing up. I did buy a switch during the
5:35
Speaker 1: pandemic because I was like, oh, well, I can play
5:38
Speaker 1: these games. So these games being Mario Party, where essentially
5:41
Speaker 1: it's just kind of a chance, and I get very
5:44
Speaker 1: mad at everyone about it because they all cheat. I'm
5:47
Speaker 1: pretty sure Mario Kart same thing. I do like to
5:51
Speaker 1: announce how many times I fall off because again, I
5:53
Speaker 1: don't quite understand the buttons. Uh, same thing with any
5:57
Speaker 1: of those kinds of things, but I do enjoy to
5:58
Speaker 1: an extent until I frustrated that I'm like, I don't
6:01
Speaker 1: know what y'all are doing. You keep telling me to push,
6:03
Speaker 1: but this, this and this that doesn't make sense. My
6:06
Speaker 1: fingers don't do this. So that's how I feel about
6:10
Speaker 1: those games. But I've tried, I've got I've grown to
6:13
Speaker 1: like them more and more. But I am more of
6:15
Speaker 1: a phone game person and I always have. I did
6:18
Speaker 1: really enjoy I guess the really first big game that
6:22
Speaker 1: I played and I never we're gonna talk a little
6:24
Speaker 1: bit about them was Candy Crush that has since been
6:28
Speaker 1: taken off to make room for games that are the
6:31
Speaker 1: puzzle games that have narrative in it, and and we've
6:34
Speaker 1: talked about it previously on a Monday Mittie because those
6:38
Speaker 1: damn ads that we talked about that has those dramatic
6:42
Speaker 1: leaving somebody cheating on, somebody murdering somebody apparently um had
6:48
Speaker 1: really reeled me into being like, what is this game?
6:52
Speaker 1: I need to know? And to the point that I've
6:55
Speaker 1: tried to reel Annie in on at least one we
6:58
Speaker 1: talked about Lily's Garden and Bridget If you have a chance,
7:01
Speaker 1: I need you to play this game as well. Not
7:03
Speaker 1: a sponsor, and it was created by a woman. So
7:09
Speaker 1: the woman did this whole game, and she did all
7:12
Speaker 1: of the programming behind it, and you can kind of
7:14
Speaker 1: tell by the relationships in it. So I'm like, huh,
7:18
Speaker 1: it is definitely different than the other games where it's
7:21
Speaker 1: just like, oh, this girl looks like your typical white
7:25
Speaker 1: sorority girl who has all these stereotypes attached to her
7:28
Speaker 1: talking to a cute white boy. I think that's this
7:31
Speaker 1: This one is a little different. And I was like, well,
7:34
Speaker 1: and now I'm really caught up in it. So that
7:37
Speaker 1: is my gaming expertise. And Annie had to tell me
7:40
Speaker 1: that this was gaming because I was like, no, I don't,
7:42
Speaker 1: I don't what. I don't know what you're talking about.
7:45
Speaker 1: I just play on my phone. Yes, I mean, that's
7:48
Speaker 1: so funny. Where do you think this idea that playing
7:51
Speaker 1: of if you like quote, just play on your phone,
7:53
Speaker 1: that you're not actually gaming? Like, where did that attitude
7:56
Speaker 1: come from? I think it came from Let's see if
8:00
Speaker 1: I can condense this. So in the eighties, toys were gendered,
8:05
Speaker 1: and video games were coming out at that time, and
8:07
Speaker 1: they got put into boys toys because the marketers at
8:11
Speaker 1: the time thought um that they would have more success
8:14
Speaker 1: in that category. It fit more into that category, and
8:17
Speaker 1: so it became a like boys arena. And therefore, like
8:22
Speaker 1: any girl entering into that space, and I speak from experience,
8:26
Speaker 1: was seen as sort of like an anomaly and like,
8:28
Speaker 1: why are you coming in here? This is like are
8:30
Speaker 1: you trying to trick us into thinking that you're good?
8:35
Speaker 1: Or look how cute she thinks she can do this?
8:38
Speaker 1: Or like once you get older, are you trying to
8:41
Speaker 1: get a date? And so I think it became a
8:43
Speaker 1: very like boys space, and so that became serious gaming.
8:47
Speaker 1: And so when phone games came out and everybody who
8:50
Speaker 1: had a phone had more access to it, and especially
8:53
Speaker 1: women were coming in and playing, that became like, that's
8:56
Speaker 1: frivolous gaming. That is not gaming. I I being the
9:00
Speaker 1: boy who was growing up with this, Um, I am
9:03
Speaker 1: the serious gamer, and this is what gaming is. I
9:05
Speaker 1: think it's another example of gate keeping around that that
9:11
Speaker 1: makes me so sad. It is very tragical. I will say,
9:15
Speaker 1: I am in level three thousand something. Look at this,
9:18
Speaker 1: This is a pro We got a pro on here,
9:25
Speaker 1: you should demand respect so that this is what I
9:30
Speaker 1: do rather than spending time with people. Well, and just
9:34
Speaker 1: to add to that before we get into this, for
9:37
Speaker 1: a long time, the kind of running commentary around this
9:40
Speaker 1: has been most gamers are men. But when you add
9:43
Speaker 1: in phone games like games in my opinion, but yes,
9:46
Speaker 1: phone games, then it does you towards women. But as
9:49
Speaker 1: in the last two years, I believe even quote serious
9:53
Speaker 1: gaming or console gaming, more women play than men. So
9:59
Speaker 1: I think we really got to reframe our thoughts around
10:02
Speaker 1: what a gamer looks like. Definitely, And I think it
10:05
Speaker 1: really speaks to sort of the dark arts of marketing.
10:09
Speaker 1: You see this all over tech, where the demographic that
10:13
Speaker 1: is being marketed to and thus sort of creating this
10:16
Speaker 1: perception of they're the main the biggest demographic like that
10:20
Speaker 1: that has done so much bad stuff in terms of
10:23
Speaker 1: making these different industries and across technology look like who
10:27
Speaker 1: who is who actually makes them up? Like who is
10:29
Speaker 1: actually in them? And so even while women are are
10:33
Speaker 1: making up this lie and share, people who are gaming
10:36
Speaker 1: marketing still would have you believe that that's not true. Right,
10:38
Speaker 1: whether we the way that we are, perceptions of it
10:40
Speaker 1: is still so warped and it doesn't actually you know,
10:43
Speaker 1: align with the reality of who is actually in this
10:45
Speaker 1: demographic right, and I think even in the games that
10:49
Speaker 1: are getting made and how women are portrayed in a
10:51
Speaker 1: lot of those games, it would very much lead you
10:54
Speaker 1: to believe that men are the intended audience and the
10:56
Speaker 1: preferred audience. Let's talk about what you brought today, bridget
11:14
Speaker 1: as infuriating as it is very important to talk about
11:17
Speaker 1: and really ongoing situation, which is what is going on
11:21
Speaker 1: with Activision Blizzard. Yeah. So I'm so glad that you
11:25
Speaker 1: grounded this in the idea that it is ongoing. This
11:27
Speaker 1: is a current conversation. Uh the I first came on
11:31
Speaker 1: my radar over the summer, but it is completely ongoing,
11:35
Speaker 1: and just last week, you know, new updates in it.
11:37
Speaker 1: So essentially the gaming company, Activision Blizzard, they're under fire
11:42
Speaker 1: for allegations the company has fostered a really toxic workplace
11:45
Speaker 1: where their women's staffers are mistreated and harassed and I'm
11:49
Speaker 1: just not treated equally. And last week new reporting from
11:52
Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal has really shed new light on
11:54
Speaker 1: these allegations. And you know, last week the staff has
11:57
Speaker 1: been mobilizing, they had to walk out. And so I think,
12:00
Speaker 1: you know, when we think about different arenas and technology,
12:05
Speaker 1: some some people who don't game might be listening to
12:07
Speaker 1: this and think like, oh, well, big deal, who cares.
12:09
Speaker 1: But particularly as more and more young people are finding
12:13
Speaker 1: themselves on online worlds and online platforms built by by
12:16
Speaker 1: you know, gaming companies, it is really important to think
12:19
Speaker 1: through like how are these how are these games where
12:22
Speaker 1: so many young people are spending their time, how do
12:24
Speaker 1: they come to be? What kind of cultures are they
12:25
Speaker 1: coming up in? Um? And so that's one of the
12:27
Speaker 1: reasons why I think this this story is such a
12:30
Speaker 1: big deal. Activision Blizzard is also just a big deal
12:33
Speaker 1: as a company. They are a major gaming company. They
12:36
Speaker 1: produce Candy Crush, Call of Duty, Overwatch, in the world
12:38
Speaker 1: of Warcraft, so major games, and uh, it's probably I
12:42
Speaker 1: think it's I think it in at least it was
12:45
Speaker 1: the biggest gaming company in both the United States and Europe.
12:49
Speaker 1: So like, not only is it an important story in
12:51
Speaker 1: terms of the culture these games are being produced in,
12:53
Speaker 1: it's also a major business story because we're talking huge
12:56
Speaker 1: global companies and the climates that these big companies foster
13:00
Speaker 1: can really make a difference in the industry and like
13:03
Speaker 1: what the industry is Like, Yeah, they're they're hugely influential.
13:06
Speaker 1: They make like billions and billions of dollars, and yeah,
13:09
Speaker 1: having such a big player in that space does ripple
13:13
Speaker 1: out and impact all these other UM players in that space.
13:18
Speaker 1: And I know, like I've read some of the stories
13:22
Speaker 1: of people women who have worked at these companies and
13:24
Speaker 1: it's just terrific and to like have them be so
13:27
Speaker 1: excited because they grew up playing games or they it
13:30
Speaker 1: was really important to them and to be so excited
13:33
Speaker 1: to get this opportunity, and then it's just awful the
13:37
Speaker 1: amount of harassment, uh they faced, which have started coming
13:41
Speaker 1: out over the past few years. Right, Yeah, so um
13:46
Speaker 1: there was a two year investigation but concluded in July.
13:49
Speaker 1: The California Department of Fair Imployment and Housing felt a
13:52
Speaker 1: lawsuit over the summer alleging sexual discrimination, harassment, and like
13:55
Speaker 1: a general kind of frat boy culture at Activision List,
14:00
Speaker 1: and the investigation down that the company discriminated against female
14:03
Speaker 1: employees in both terms and conditions of employment UM including compensation, assignment, promotion,
14:08
Speaker 1: and termination, and that company leadership consistently failed to take
14:11
Speaker 1: steps to prevent discrimination, harassment, and retaliation, and like you
14:15
Speaker 1: were saying, when you get into some of the specific
14:18
Speaker 1: stories of the kinds of things that went on here,
14:21
Speaker 1: Like one of the allegations that was made was that
14:24
Speaker 1: the men at the company would often do these things
14:26
Speaker 1: called cube crawls, in which male employees would drink copious
14:30
Speaker 1: amounts of alcohol as they crawl their way through various
14:33
Speaker 1: cubicles in the office and engage in inappropriate behavior towards
14:36
Speaker 1: female employees. Like, imagine if that was just the thing
14:40
Speaker 1: that happened in your workplace, right that, Oh, just it's Thursday. Obviously,
14:44
Speaker 1: the male staffers are all gonna get really drunk and
14:47
Speaker 1: crawl on their hands and knees into my office and
14:50
Speaker 1: harass me while I'm trying to work. Like some of
14:53
Speaker 1: the allegations are that have come out are just so horrifying,
14:57
Speaker 1: And it's like I can just just like what you
14:59
Speaker 1: were saying, I can imagine being so excited to work
15:02
Speaker 1: at a company that is so influential in the gaming
15:05
Speaker 1: space and then get there and be like, oh, actually
15:08
Speaker 1: I have to put up with the most degrading behavior
15:11
Speaker 1: just to do my job here. Right, It sends a
15:14
Speaker 1: really clear message of whether like the company culture and
15:19
Speaker 1: who belongs and who doesn't, and like what the kind
15:23
Speaker 1: of status quo how they view you is someone who
15:27
Speaker 1: it's okay to her ask like your job is not
15:29
Speaker 1: important um or that you are kind of that outlier
15:34
Speaker 1: that you know, why are you here? Is it to
15:38
Speaker 1: get a man or just for us to to kind
15:41
Speaker 1: of all go and harass at your job? Okay, I'm thinking, like,
15:46
Speaker 1: I wonder how much it took for them to even
15:48
Speaker 1: get an interview to go through how and we've talked
15:52
Speaker 1: about how in general, women when they apply for anything,
15:55
Speaker 1: they have to be sure like they are qualify before
15:59
Speaker 1: they even attempted, so making sure that they are able
16:01
Speaker 1: to prove that they can work there, and then going
16:03
Speaker 1: through all of the hoops because they have to do
16:05
Speaker 1: so much more than men typically, and within a business
16:08
Speaker 1: like this, you have to do even more to prove
16:11
Speaker 1: that you are worthy and knowledgeable of these things, and
16:14
Speaker 1: then coming into their and being dismissed as if you
16:17
Speaker 1: were an intern. Not the intern should be treated this
16:19
Speaker 1: way either, but essentially as if you're coming to learn
16:22
Speaker 1: instead of being a professional and be like, hey, I'm here,
16:24
Speaker 1: and then watching this nonsense, like I would that makes
16:26
Speaker 1: me want to throw things for sure. Yes, it's curiating,
16:31
Speaker 1: and there are some of the details coming out. I'm
16:34
Speaker 1: just like, wow, somebody somewhere thought this is acceptable. Like, um,
16:38
Speaker 1: In one example, an activision employee had for years just
16:42
Speaker 1: signed his email signature on all and you know in
16:47
Speaker 1: this in this Wall Street Journal podcast that broke these
16:50
Speaker 1: broke these new allegations, she makes this good point. You know,
16:53
Speaker 1: so if you're a woman, you would get an email
16:54
Speaker 1: and just be like, this is normal. It is normal
16:56
Speaker 1: to get an email that has this sign off. And
16:59
Speaker 1: then to make things worse, this employee worked there for
17:03
Speaker 1: a month, right, Like, they took a month for them
17:05
Speaker 1: to fire this employee, and they had an investigation, and
17:08
Speaker 1: we're gonna be like, what was her even to investigate?
17:10
Speaker 1: Like investigation even look like you're like, it's right there,
17:15
Speaker 1: here's the email. Either go ahead and discipline them or
17:18
Speaker 1: why are we waiting a month? Right? Um? And then
17:22
Speaker 1: like the saddest thing is this is pretty sad. So like,
17:26
Speaker 1: if you're someone who you know it has has a
17:29
Speaker 1: difficult time talking about suicide, I'm sorry to proport that
17:32
Speaker 1: this is something that happened um. The suit also points
17:35
Speaker 1: that a female Activision employee died by suicide while on
17:38
Speaker 1: a company trip with her male supervisor. The employee had
17:41
Speaker 1: been subjected to intense sexual harassment prior to her death,
17:44
Speaker 1: including having nude photos of her passed around at a
17:47
Speaker 1: company holiday party. And you know, I think that just
17:51
Speaker 1: really underscores the seriousness of what was going on and
17:54
Speaker 1: the seriousness of the of the toxic culture that was
17:59
Speaker 1: happening at Activision that somebody died by suicide with in
18:04
Speaker 1: regards to it, Yeah, yeah, and and because as we said,
18:07
Speaker 1: this is ongoing, like it's not like something happened something
18:12
Speaker 1: tragic like this happened and then they fixed it. It
18:15
Speaker 1: was oh, you know, we've known this has been going on.
18:19
Speaker 1: This is sort of the accepted culture. Let's move on
18:22
Speaker 1: from this. And that's been one of the most frustrating,
18:27
Speaker 1: Like all of it's really upsetting, but that's been one
18:28
Speaker 1: of the most frustrating things is it's like all of
18:31
Speaker 1: these instances over and over and over, and it seems
18:36
Speaker 1: that they just really could care less. They're like, all right,
18:40
Speaker 1: let's just wait for this publicity to blow over. They'll
18:43
Speaker 1: be fine, and We'll continue as as we've done and
18:47
Speaker 1: that's acceptable to them. Yeah, that is the message that
18:51
Speaker 1: I think they're putting out. I think, just just like you,
18:55
Speaker 1: when I heard about this employee who died by suicide,
18:58
Speaker 1: I thought, certainly will be this, Like it's obvious to
19:02
Speaker 1: anyone that big changes are necessary, a change in leadership,
19:06
Speaker 1: a change in culture. This is not the kind of
19:08
Speaker 1: thing that I think training or you know, bringing in
19:12
Speaker 1: a counselor is going to help. And then I was
19:14
Speaker 1: really surprised to see that, you know, initially the company
19:18
Speaker 1: was saying, like these reports aren't true. It just showed
19:21
Speaker 1: it just showed me that they weren't taking it very seriously.
19:24
Speaker 1: So when these allegations first surfaced in the Summer activision,
19:28
Speaker 1: CEO Bobby Cootick he denied the allegations, saying that the
19:31
Speaker 1: lawsuit allegations were inaccurate, adding that the picture that the
19:34
Speaker 1: lawsuit paints is not the Blizzard workplace of today. But
19:37
Speaker 1: the staff really say otherwise, and so a lot of
19:41
Speaker 1: them put the blame squarely on his shoulders, as like
19:45
Speaker 1: the CEO of this company, the seat, the person who
19:47
Speaker 1: is overseeing all of this like really toxic stuff and
19:52
Speaker 1: what's really upsetting to me is that initially Bobby Cootick
19:55
Speaker 1: was denying that he had any knowledge of this kind
19:59
Speaker 1: of conduct. Have right, Uh, He was like, I have
20:02
Speaker 1: no awareness of this. I didn't know this was happening.
20:05
Speaker 1: And it wasn't until after this lawsuit came out that
20:08
Speaker 1: in October he eventually apologized to the staff and agreed
20:11
Speaker 1: to pay eighteen million dollars in settlement with federal regulators
20:15
Speaker 1: and pledged to take steps to improve have a company
20:17
Speaker 1: treats employees. And so you might think, you know, okay,
20:22
Speaker 1: like that's the end of the story, Like they paid
20:25
Speaker 1: the money, they apologized, they pledged to do better. But
20:29
Speaker 1: this is where the story is continuing, because the Wall
20:31
Speaker 1: Street Journal reported that not only did he know about
20:34
Speaker 1: this behavior, he was an active participant himself in this behavior. Um.
20:38
Speaker 1: And so what's really funny is that in his kind
20:41
Speaker 1: of apology tour, he was like, now, Blizzard is going
20:44
Speaker 1: to have a zero tolerance policy against this kind of behavior,
20:47
Speaker 1: but that he had to specifically note that that policy
20:51
Speaker 1: was not inclusive of his own behavior. And he was like, oh, well,
20:54
Speaker 1: it's zero tolerance, but like not for me cels In.
21:02
Speaker 1: It's all good. Yeah, And I mean I know, like
21:05
Speaker 1: um players have have kind of spoken out and you know,
21:10
Speaker 1: said done like strikes where they won't play and the
21:13
Speaker 1: workers have spoken out. But still still, uh, this guy
21:18
Speaker 1: is still around despite like a lot of allegations coming
21:22
Speaker 1: out against him. Oh yes, so some of the allegations
21:25
Speaker 1: against him, specifically, according to The Wall Street Journal, over
21:29
Speaker 1: the years, Mr Kotick himself has been accused by several
21:32
Speaker 1: women of mistreatment, both inside and outside of the workplace.
21:35
Speaker 1: In some instances, he has worked to settle those complaints
21:38
Speaker 1: quickly and quietly, so a couple of the specific allegations.
21:40
Speaker 1: In two thousand and six, he reportedly harassed one of
21:43
Speaker 1: his assistants, including threatening and a voicemail to have her killed.
21:48
Speaker 1: Imagine if your boss was like, I'll have you killed.
21:52
Speaker 1: I know it's shocking. Yes, yes, I mean a lot
21:58
Speaker 1: of It's one of those things that do you read
22:01
Speaker 1: about this that there's almost a part of you that's
22:04
Speaker 1: like this can't be real, But in the back of
22:06
Speaker 1: your head you're like, no, unfortunately, I think it is.
22:10
Speaker 1: I mean, this is kind of like a big part
22:12
Speaker 1: of narcissists and that could power you see these levels
22:15
Speaker 1: like that they they they're untouchable, as well as the
22:18
Speaker 1: fact that no, just saying that it's actually a felony.
22:21
Speaker 1: That is a felony. But congratulations, you have money and
22:24
Speaker 1: I'm assuming he's white, you can move, Oh he is.
22:28
Speaker 1: It's funny because he's almost like in some of these reports,
22:32
Speaker 1: he kind of comes off as like a mega wealthy,
22:35
Speaker 1: like mega powerful super villain. Uh. You know. In two
22:39
Speaker 1: thousand and seven, he allegedly told a private jet flight
22:42
Speaker 1: attendant who was suing him for sexual harassment committed by
22:45
Speaker 1: the pilot of his private jet, I'm going to destroy you.
22:49
Speaker 1: I feel like telling a flight attendant on your private jet,
22:51
Speaker 1: I'm going to destroy you. Is some like Mr Burns
22:55
Speaker 1: level powerful narcissist run a month with power and money stuff.
23:01
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, And I mean I can just imagine like
23:07
Speaker 1: if he you know, has played video games that he
23:12
Speaker 1: sees himself as like the hero of this story or
23:14
Speaker 1: like the powerful I can do anything because I have
23:18
Speaker 1: like ascended every level in this video game that is
23:21
Speaker 1: this company that I run, and I can treat people
23:24
Speaker 1: however I want. Yeah, in my mind, I'm seeing like
23:28
Speaker 1: a Harvey Weinstein of this industry, because that's exactly what
23:32
Speaker 1: he would do with women that would just say no
23:35
Speaker 1: to him. And in my mind, this seems to be
23:38
Speaker 1: what he is doing with women. If he's threatening them
23:41
Speaker 1: and willing to go to harm them whatever they there's
23:44
Speaker 1: no telling what he has actually done that people are
23:47
Speaker 1: not speaking out about yet. That's such a good point,
23:49
Speaker 1: and I think that Harvey Weinstein comparison is apt. And
23:52
Speaker 1: I do think that the kind of things that he's
23:55
Speaker 1: being accused of, I think really illustrate a just a
24:01
Speaker 1: particular kind of view of women. That women are around
24:05
Speaker 1: to serve you and to do whatever you want them
24:08
Speaker 1: to do, and that the idea that like a woman
24:11
Speaker 1: would say no to you, the idea that a woman
24:13
Speaker 1: who works on your private jet would sue you for
24:16
Speaker 1: the behavior of your of your pilot. You know. I
24:19
Speaker 1: think that the way that he responds to these women,
24:22
Speaker 1: it just really illustrates a very particular kind of view
24:24
Speaker 1: of women, just as they there to be in service
24:30
Speaker 1: of powerful men, regardless of what their actual role is
24:34
Speaker 1: um in the organization. And so another thing to point
24:37
Speaker 1: out is that I believe the only so like in
24:40
Speaker 1: terms of that voicemail where he told his assistant that
24:42
Speaker 1: he would have her killed. He's through a spokesperson, he
24:45
Speaker 1: said that he immediately apologized for that incident and that
24:48
Speaker 1: that he regretted it. I think the only reason that
24:51
Speaker 1: he said that is because it's on a voicemail. I
24:52
Speaker 1: think that if there was not, you know, the audio
24:56
Speaker 1: of him saying it, so you can't deny it. I
24:58
Speaker 1: don't think you ever would be like, oh yeah, I
25:00
Speaker 1: definitely said that I regretted it. I apologized. You know
25:03
Speaker 1: this that in the third I think the only reason
25:04
Speaker 1: you did that is because she You know, if it's
25:06
Speaker 1: a voicemail, you have proof, right right? Yeah, I think
25:10
Speaker 1: so too. And I think, again, this is like my
25:13
Speaker 1: very personal experience, but I have had a lot of
25:14
Speaker 1: run ins with some real nasty gamer bros. And I
25:17
Speaker 1: feel like a lot of like what you were saying,
25:19
Speaker 1: bridget of like seeing women in a certain way. I
25:20
Speaker 1: think there's a lot of like really um condescending, like
25:29
Speaker 1: oh she's so cute, Oh she's so cute. She thinks
25:33
Speaker 1: she can like threaten me, or she thinks she can
25:35
Speaker 1: come into this world like I'm only she's only here
25:37
Speaker 1: because I'm letting her be here. She ignored, if she
25:39
Speaker 1: annoys me, if she does something I don't like, then
25:42
Speaker 1: like I will threaten her with violence, like immediately get
25:46
Speaker 1: her out or find a way to silence her. Um.
25:49
Speaker 1: Because yeah, I do think a lot of it is
25:50
Speaker 1: like she only exists here because I allow her to
25:54
Speaker 1: exist here, which is very, very toxic and gross. I mean,
25:58
Speaker 1: how do you, even as I gamer yourself, how do
26:02
Speaker 1: you continue to show up and put yourself out there
26:06
Speaker 1: even if you're playing with someone who seems accommodating and
26:11
Speaker 1: nice and like maybe they're like, you know, a feminist,
26:14
Speaker 1: but to know in the back of your head if
26:16
Speaker 1: I do something that he doesn't like, he could flip
26:18
Speaker 1: on me and turn on me, and I would I
26:19
Speaker 1: would see this other side. How do you continue to
26:22
Speaker 1: show up and put yourself out there knowing this? Um? Yeah,
26:28
Speaker 1: I mean that's that's the what really breaks my heart
26:31
Speaker 1: about a lot of this because I stopped online gaming
26:35
Speaker 1: when I was twelve because I had already at that
26:37
Speaker 1: point received enough threats in harassment that it was not
26:42
Speaker 1: worth it for me, and it became such a scary experience.
26:45
Speaker 1: And I know that this has changed, but for a while,
26:48
Speaker 1: like the Xbox Live guidelines had a bullet point in
26:52
Speaker 1: there that was like, if you're being her ass, you
26:55
Speaker 1: can leave, essentially like not addressing the problem, but like, uh,
27:01
Speaker 1: you know it's gonna happen, so too bad. I do still.
27:05
Speaker 1: I do still play, but it's much more like I
27:08
Speaker 1: played by myself or as friends that I know I
27:10
Speaker 1: do have. When I was in college, I went to
27:12
Speaker 1: a technical college, and um I entered a super Smash
27:16
Speaker 1: Brothers tournament and I won five hundred dollars. But every
27:22
Speaker 1: other competitor, which you can all bet, they were all men,
27:25
Speaker 1: and some of them were my friends, did flip out
27:28
Speaker 1: on me and they were like, you cheated. There's no
27:31
Speaker 1: way she could not have one. That is impossible. And
27:36
Speaker 1: I was like, I mean people were watching mad she
27:42
Speaker 1: you just didn't think I was a threat, so you
27:44
Speaker 1: didn't come at me, and you all die, right, they
27:48
Speaker 1: all killed each other, which was my tactic, but it
27:50
Speaker 1: doesn't work because anyway, But you know, we talked about
27:55
Speaker 1: the story actually just this weekend, Annie and I and
27:58
Speaker 1: just talking about how men in general in these gaming
28:01
Speaker 1: worlds really don't see women as threats, or if they
28:04
Speaker 1: are threats, it's because they are too sexual and or
28:06
Speaker 1: something or for their gay So for the mail gays
28:10
Speaker 1: in general. Uh, And I was thinking about that with
28:12
Speaker 1: like feminist frequency. They were established because they're trying to
28:15
Speaker 1: protect the women in this industry and those who are
28:18
Speaker 1: non binary or those who identifies women like they are
28:20
Speaker 1: really trying. But even to this day and when I
28:23
Speaker 1: look at when they do fundraisers or when they have
28:26
Speaker 1: like things live, the amount of harassment just for existing
28:30
Speaker 1: to help women is incredible and the amount of just
28:35
Speaker 1: trolls coming at them today when I'm like, oh my god,
28:39
Speaker 1: have you not been listening to the fact that the
28:42
Speaker 1: growing number of women who love gaming a b who
28:46
Speaker 1: are actually here helping you, whether it's helping programming these
28:49
Speaker 1: new games that you're really into and developing these new
28:52
Speaker 1: characters that you're really into, but you don't want to
28:55
Speaker 1: acknowledge that. It's such a whole level of like why
28:58
Speaker 1: why do you hate women? So why does this industry
29:01
Speaker 1: continue to foster a place of hate against women? Because
29:05
Speaker 1: things like Twitch is still having complaints about, Hey, you
29:08
Speaker 1: need to control the level of harassment that is happening,
29:11
Speaker 1: but because of you being silent, nothing is happening. Absolutely,
29:16
Speaker 1: And I think it speaks to Annie's point about this
29:19
Speaker 1: idea of like, if you don't like it, you can leave.
29:22
Speaker 1: I think that there's a misconception that women who game
29:28
Speaker 1: are sort of putting themselves in a position to be
29:31
Speaker 1: harassed and if they don't want to be harassed, they
29:33
Speaker 1: should leave. And it leaves out this idea of like, well,
29:36
Speaker 1: women shouldn't have to be harassed just to play games, right,
29:39
Speaker 1: And I think that for a lot of these women
29:40
Speaker 1: who work in activision, I think the attitude is, you know,
29:43
Speaker 1: we're working at a at a BREWI video game company,
29:46
Speaker 1: what did you expect? Like it really puts the onus
29:49
Speaker 1: on people who have been harassed and survivors to get
29:53
Speaker 1: themselves out of situations that they should not be in
29:56
Speaker 1: the first place. And I think that's exactly It's like
29:57
Speaker 1: a cultural attitude that really blames survivors and blames victims
30:03
Speaker 1: for you know, systems that they did not create that
30:07
Speaker 1: leads to them being harmed, and you know it. It
30:10
Speaker 1: is sam to your point. I do think that we
30:13
Speaker 1: all know that games are better, more inclusive, more interesting
30:18
Speaker 1: when they're built by inclusive teams, and so your products
30:22
Speaker 1: can only be more engaging if women are around to
30:26
Speaker 1: help design it. Like you were talking about how Lily's
30:29
Speaker 1: Garden is a more fun game for you because you
30:31
Speaker 1: can tell it was you know, put put together by
30:33
Speaker 1: a woman, and it's better than the games where you
30:35
Speaker 1: can tell this is designed by a team of men
30:38
Speaker 1: who probably don't know any women, and you know, have
30:40
Speaker 1: no sense of like what a woman is going to
30:42
Speaker 1: want from a game like this, right, And so we
30:44
Speaker 1: know that things are better when women are are included
30:47
Speaker 1: and valued and supported and championed. And it makes me
30:50
Speaker 1: sad that the gaming industry just can't get it together
30:54
Speaker 1: to you know, reflect that reality. You know. The biggest
30:59
Speaker 1: question to me, it's like, if you are a company
31:02
Speaker 1: that wants to grow and truly are looking to make money,
31:06
Speaker 1: why wouldn't you want more people? If you all, do
31:09
Speaker 1: you really want to just cater for half the population
31:11
Speaker 1: when you can have the whole population? Hello? I really
31:15
Speaker 1: think they hate women that much. Honestly, I don't think
31:18
Speaker 1: they want them in their audience. And I say that
31:20
Speaker 1: as someone who loves games, and I play plenty of
31:22
Speaker 1: games made by women who were great and really inclusive,
31:24
Speaker 1: and I played games made by men that are great,
31:26
Speaker 1: really inclusive. But I feel like the industry at a whole,
31:29
Speaker 1: especially this like console gaming level. They are so resistant
31:34
Speaker 1: to it, and they're just like I think they don't
31:37
Speaker 1: like they don't want women in their audience because they
31:39
Speaker 1: think it will demean the value of their products. And
31:43
Speaker 1: I think also they're so afraid of pissing off. They're
31:48
Speaker 1: very angry because this is another note I want to make.
31:50
Speaker 1: When they harass you, it's like threats to kill you
31:53
Speaker 1: are rape you. It's not like, hey, you suck, it's
31:56
Speaker 1: like I'm going to find your address and send it
31:58
Speaker 1: to people, like right, it's scary. It jumps to this,
32:03
Speaker 1: I'm going to rape you and harm you in a
32:05
Speaker 1: way that I know it's going to violate you and
32:06
Speaker 1: make you know that I'm a man, which is in
32:10
Speaker 1: itself whole level that honestly, all of this just again
32:14
Speaker 1: kind of talks about when when you were talking about
32:16
Speaker 1: this industry in general, about being a fat club or
32:21
Speaker 1: a good old boy club. And I see that continuously
32:24
Speaker 1: when you see the higher ups being just friends of theirs,
32:27
Speaker 1: coming up with the same damn attitude that may have
32:30
Speaker 1: a lesser record or the lesser known record than the
32:33
Speaker 1: previous person, which is so like then you're just fostering
32:36
Speaker 1: once again. More of this nastiness that you are saying
32:40
Speaker 1: you want to prevent. Now, Oh, I completely agree. It's
32:43
Speaker 1: such it's such a vicious toxic cycle. I don't actually
32:48
Speaker 1: know if I believe that some of these places can
32:53
Speaker 1: be reformed or improved without massive structural change. Is like
33:01
Speaker 1: reading the Blizzard statement where they're like, oh, we're bringing
33:03
Speaker 1: in a counselor we're bringing in a you know, we're
33:06
Speaker 1: gonna do more training. I don't think that these men
33:10
Speaker 1: need to be trained to know that signing your emails
33:13
Speaker 1: one is not professional. I don't I don't think. I
33:16
Speaker 1: don't think that that's going to cut it. I don't
33:17
Speaker 1: think that like a training is going to be the
33:20
Speaker 1: thing to to, you know, help men in this company
33:24
Speaker 1: understand that crawling into your female coworkers office will drunk
33:29
Speaker 1: to harass her is not acceptable workplace behavior. And so
33:32
Speaker 1: I'm really curious if this can all be improved. But
33:36
Speaker 1: it sounds to me so toxic from the very very top,
33:41
Speaker 1: you know, the CEO to the guys who are playing
33:43
Speaker 1: the games threatening to murder you, and the platforms being
33:47
Speaker 1: like that's okay, that is that is you know, if
33:50
Speaker 1: that that's part of gameplay if you don't want to
33:52
Speaker 1: be involved in that, don't play the game. Like there
33:54
Speaker 1: are just so many levels to how bad it is
33:56
Speaker 1: that it can be very dismaying. And I do wonder too,
34:00
Speaker 1: Like when you talk about them saying we're gonna bring
34:01
Speaker 1: in counselors, we're gonna teach these tactics, and we're gonna
34:04
Speaker 1: talk about, you know, workplace safety and all this. But
34:06
Speaker 1: I'm like, who are you really keeping safe? If the
34:08
Speaker 1: people that have made this place unsafe still exists there,
34:13
Speaker 1: then who are you truly keeping safe? It's not the victims.
34:16
Speaker 1: The victims have to be there with them. The victims
34:17
Speaker 1: who have been threatened by these people, are harassed by
34:20
Speaker 1: these people, are continually told, you know, all of these
34:22
Speaker 1: nasty comments by these people, and all you're doing is
34:25
Speaker 1: keeping them there, those perpetrators, and you're like, but we're
34:28
Speaker 1: gonna help them and spend money on them. Who are
34:31
Speaker 1: you keeping safe? And That's that's like a common thing
34:35
Speaker 1: up and down tex that I cannot stand where even
34:38
Speaker 1: when somebody is like confirmed to be a harasser or
34:42
Speaker 1: an abuser, or you know, somebody who has abused their power,
34:46
Speaker 1: a lot of times these companies will go out of
34:48
Speaker 1: their way to praise them or give them like lucrative
34:52
Speaker 1: exit packages on the way out the door. And it
34:55
Speaker 1: makes me like boils my blood. It enrages me. So.
34:58
Speaker 1: A former Blizzard technology chief, Ben Kilgore, was fired after
35:02
Speaker 1: an investigation into multiple allegations of sexual harassment. But he
35:07
Speaker 1: was thanked quote for his many contributions over the last
35:10
Speaker 1: four and a half years in an email by his
35:12
Speaker 1: then boss. And what kind of messages that send somebody
35:16
Speaker 1: who is fired for sexual harassment? Uh not? Like clearly
35:20
Speaker 1: the company It was like, okay, these you know this happened,
35:23
Speaker 1: we have to take action to fire him. Is really
35:26
Speaker 1: necessary to praise him on the way out? And what
35:28
Speaker 1: kind of signal do you think that it is sending
35:30
Speaker 1: to the people that he harassed and the people who
35:32
Speaker 1: have to work there after he leaves. Yeah, yep, get
35:37
Speaker 1: some extra money and he did a great job. Just
35:41
Speaker 1: ignore all that other stuff. It's cool. And this was
35:45
Speaker 1: like in the face of wasn't it thirty employees saying
35:51
Speaker 1: that they had experienced some type of harassment? That's right.
35:56
Speaker 1: Female employees in their E sports department sent an email
36:00
Speaker 1: the department heads saying that they had been subject to
36:01
Speaker 1: unwanted touching to meeting comments, exclusions from important meetings, and
36:05
Speaker 1: unsolicited remarks about their appearance. And again, uh Cochick was
36:10
Speaker 1: aware of this email because he was one of the
36:11
Speaker 1: people who got this email, and so him saying publicly like,
36:16
Speaker 1: I'm not aware of any of these obligations. I've never
36:18
Speaker 1: seen anything like this in my company. Blah blah blah.
36:20
Speaker 1: It's just a lie. It's a way to save face,
36:22
Speaker 1: and it to me makes it seem as though the
36:26
Speaker 1: company is not really invested in or interested in cleaning
36:30
Speaker 1: any of this up. They're interested in making a pr
36:32
Speaker 1: problem go away and interested in uh making shareholders feel
36:37
Speaker 1: good and feel, you know, like the company is in
36:39
Speaker 1: good hands. I don't think they actually care about the
36:42
Speaker 1: fact that they're they're people in their employee are are
36:45
Speaker 1: going through this just to do their jobs. Yeah. No,
36:48
Speaker 1: I totally agree. And I feel like a lot of
36:51
Speaker 1: it to me gives the vibe of like really actually
36:56
Speaker 1: wanting to hold on to this culture and the way
36:58
Speaker 1: they've been able to treat women and believing and so
37:03
Speaker 1: far very unfortunately it seems that it's working that that
37:06
Speaker 1: people will just forget it and move on. That's not
37:09
Speaker 1: to say, the employees haven't been really especially lately like
37:13
Speaker 1: coming together and speaking out, which is amazing and I
37:16
Speaker 1: really appreciate it, and I know how hard that is, um,
37:20
Speaker 1: but yeah, I felt like their whole thing is at
37:23
Speaker 1: least the higher ups are like, I'd want to continue
37:27
Speaker 1: as is. Let's just way press to blow over. It's
37:30
Speaker 1: gonna be fine. Yeah, And you know, to your point
37:33
Speaker 1: about it seems like they want to keep this culture.
37:37
Speaker 1: You said something earlier that kind of sparks something in
37:39
Speaker 1: my mind, which is, we know that the most extreme
37:44
Speaker 1: violent gamer dudes out there are like pretty scary and
37:48
Speaker 1: pretty like I guess, very into the things that they're into,
37:53
Speaker 1: and we've seen before when that when those when folks
37:58
Speaker 1: like that feel like something that they are entitled to
38:01
Speaker 1: is taken away from them. You know, there are so
38:03
Speaker 1: many different instances in pop culture. When they made a
38:06
Speaker 1: reboot of Ghostbusters with women, like, they're taking Ghostbusters away
38:10
Speaker 1: from me. When Star Wars cast women and people of color,
38:13
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, this institution that is mine is being
38:15
Speaker 1: taken away from me. Part of me wonders if they
38:19
Speaker 1: feel like they don't want to make significant changes to
38:22
Speaker 1: this toxic misogynistic culture precisely because they want their core,
38:27
Speaker 1: the people that they're thinking of as their core user base,
38:30
Speaker 1: they want them to feel like, yeah, this toxic soup
38:34
Speaker 1: of culture that we've created here is still yours. Like that,
38:38
Speaker 1: no one is coming to like wocify your video games
38:41
Speaker 1: at Blizzard, like we will continue to foster misogyny and
38:45
Speaker 1: extremism and violence. That's a guarantee, you know what. Any right, Yeah, no,
38:51
Speaker 1: I think there is something to that. I think there
38:54
Speaker 1: is some kind of like wink wink thing happening of
38:57
Speaker 1: like uh to their very angry, generally white male player base.
39:03
Speaker 1: You know, we're not going to give in to these
39:05
Speaker 1: feminists or these social justice warriors, like you know, we'll
39:11
Speaker 1: say something out loud, we'll do like a publicity thing,
39:14
Speaker 1: but between us, it's gonna be fine. We're not gonna
39:17
Speaker 1: mess with anything, and we're going to keep providing you
39:20
Speaker 1: just for you, the entertainment. And as long as women
39:25
Speaker 1: are quiet and know their role, then they can come in.
39:27
Speaker 1: But otherwise they're not welcome here, and if they have
39:31
Speaker 1: any problem with that, they can just leave. Oh exactly exactly,
39:34
Speaker 1: any problem at all, Like, well, then leave, It's fine,
39:51
Speaker 1: Samantha does I. I have one of my favorite games
39:53
Speaker 1: that came out recently, The Last of Us Too, had
39:55
Speaker 1: featured a woman in the main role. Mostly women game
39:59
Speaker 1: or dudes hated it. They hated it, and they sent
40:02
Speaker 1: like death threats to all the voice actors, all the creators.
40:04
Speaker 1: So it's not just like it's the player. It's impacting
40:07
Speaker 1: the player, but it's also impacting like companies and games
40:11
Speaker 1: that are trying to show these other stories. And that's
40:16
Speaker 1: just another way of silence seeing and and keeping it
40:19
Speaker 1: like no, it has to look this way and very
40:22
Speaker 1: gate kept, and and if so, you will receive a
40:25
Speaker 1: death threat. Like it's just very it's a very toxic
40:30
Speaker 1: space in a lot of ways. It makes me so
40:34
Speaker 1: sad that, you know, companies like Activision are so big
40:39
Speaker 1: that they really can, like what they do, can dictate
40:42
Speaker 1: the rest of the industry. And like you said, it's
40:43
Speaker 1: a top down thing. And so we're talking to voice talent,
40:46
Speaker 1: we're talking designers, were talking women who write about games,
40:49
Speaker 1: were like, the the impact that it can have when
40:52
Speaker 1: a major player cultivates this kind of toxicity and massage
40:56
Speaker 1: and the I think it really knows no bounds and
40:58
Speaker 1: I'm really hurting to see staffers, you know, speaking up,
41:02
Speaker 1: folks within the company speaking up. On Novembers having teenth,
41:05
Speaker 1: a group of shareholders led by union pension group the
41:08
Speaker 1: s OC Investment Group called for the resignation of Activision
41:12
Speaker 1: CEO Bobby kotick Um and the retirement of two other
41:15
Speaker 1: members of the board UM. And the letter was also
41:17
Speaker 1: signed by you know, various kind of investment groups which
41:19
Speaker 1: focus on supporting women across industries and UM the like.
41:23
Speaker 1: Rank and file staff themselves are really speaking up, trying
41:26
Speaker 1: to get Quo Tick to resign. UM advocacy group a
41:31
Speaker 1: b K Workers Alliance recently published a document signed by
41:33
Speaker 1: five DRED employees calling for Coote's removal s CEO UM.
41:37
Speaker 1: They said, we the undersigned no longer have confidence in
41:39
Speaker 1: the leadership of Bobby co Tick, a CEO of Activision,
41:42
Speaker 1: and they walked out in mass to to protest this.
41:46
Speaker 1: And I know that that is not easy. It's not
41:49
Speaker 1: easy to speak up in a company like this where
41:51
Speaker 1: it's already been documented that retaliation is a thing that happens.
41:54
Speaker 1: And so kudos to these employees who were doing that,
41:57
Speaker 1: But it seems like we're writing out Unfortunately, the board
42:01
Speaker 1: is sticking with this CEO. You know, they said that
42:04
Speaker 1: they have confidence in him. And I think this is
42:07
Speaker 1: where things get a little bit business e because at
42:09
Speaker 1: a certain point, you know, you have these investors and
42:12
Speaker 1: shareholders in your company and it's like, I can understand
42:15
Speaker 1: why this guy's leadership is not inspiring confidence in your
42:19
Speaker 1: investment in this in this company. And it's like, like,
42:24
Speaker 1: I agree with you that they're they're doing some sort
42:26
Speaker 1: of wink wink, not non thing, but I think that
42:29
Speaker 1: they are They should be beholden to their stakeholders and
42:32
Speaker 1: the staff who have to deal with this environment that
42:34
Speaker 1: they're cultivating. And it's like, I guess I wonder where
42:38
Speaker 1: when does any kind of accountability come in? Like who
42:40
Speaker 1: are you accountable to? And if not now when? Yeah?
42:43
Speaker 1: And I think that was one of the most galling
42:44
Speaker 1: things for the employees but also people who uh just
42:49
Speaker 1: been watching the situation is that they seems so out
42:52
Speaker 1: of touch with the statements they released after the walkout,
42:55
Speaker 1: like they clearly were kind of like not getting the
42:58
Speaker 1: point or purposefully skirting around the point. And then like
43:01
Speaker 1: there's a whole and I'm trying to go into it
43:04
Speaker 1: right now, But there was a woman who was in
43:06
Speaker 1: charge of like the White House communications during Bush and
43:12
Speaker 1: the Iraq War. She was in charge of the women's
43:16
Speaker 1: gaming board there of like making sure that their voices
43:20
Speaker 1: were heard, and she was like she tweeted something that
43:23
Speaker 1: was called the problem with the whistleblowing while all this
43:25
Speaker 1: was happening, Like Okay, so you're not really listening to us. Cool, cool,
43:34
Speaker 1: and like we've gone over some names already, but they
43:37
Speaker 1: were already like those are not the only names of
43:40
Speaker 1: men at this company that I've done really horrible things. Yeah,
43:46
Speaker 1: so it is like like you said, and it is.
43:51
Speaker 1: It feels very overwhelming and it's so frustrating. I think
43:54
Speaker 1: we recently did an episode where there's a new survey
43:58
Speaker 1: came out, some new research came out and showed that like,
44:00
Speaker 1: over the past ten years, the situation has actually gotten worse,
44:04
Speaker 1: um in terms of representation in video games. I think
44:09
Speaker 1: this was specifically characters and storylines and stuff. But that's it.
44:15
Speaker 1: Just it does feel like a lot and it feels
44:17
Speaker 1: like we aren't making a lot of progress. And I'm
44:18
Speaker 1: happy to see people speaking up about it. Glad we're
44:21
Speaker 1: talking about it, But yeah, it's with so much work
44:25
Speaker 1: to be done, absolutely, and I think you know, it's
44:29
Speaker 1: sad that it doesn't seem like a lot us improving.
44:31
Speaker 1: This month, the Anti Defamation League released a new study
44:34
Speaker 1: that shows that six of young gamers experienced abuse or
44:37
Speaker 1: harassment while playing games. Five out of six adults ages
44:40
Speaker 1: eighteen to forty five experienced harassment and online multiplayer games,
44:43
Speaker 1: representing eighty million adult gamers. Three out of five young
44:46
Speaker 1: people that age thirteen to seventeen experienced harassment and online
44:50
Speaker 1: multiplayer games, and seventy one of adult online multiplayer gamers
44:54
Speaker 1: experienced severe abuse, including physical threats, stalking, and sustained harassment.
44:59
Speaker 1: So precisely the kind thing that you were talking about
45:01
Speaker 1: dealing with when you were playing in these kinds of games.
45:03
Speaker 1: And again not surprising, the largest increases in identity based
45:07
Speaker 1: harassment occurred among adult respondents identified as women, black or
45:11
Speaker 1: African American and Asian American. And so it's just bad.
45:16
Speaker 1: It doesn't sound like a like a safe environment. And
45:20
Speaker 1: I think given that so many young people are having
45:24
Speaker 1: formative experiences in these environments, these companies owe it to
45:27
Speaker 1: them to figure out a way to foster safety and
45:30
Speaker 1: actual community in the gameplay experience, but also in the
45:35
Speaker 1: in the companies, in the boardrooms where these games get made.
45:37
Speaker 1: Like it all at all to me is kind of
45:40
Speaker 1: one big bucket. And I really think like the industry
45:43
Speaker 1: has got to make some very very big changes if
45:46
Speaker 1: anything is going to get better. Yeah, and I would
45:48
Speaker 1: like to add on here because I think sometimes this
45:51
Speaker 1: gets lost in this discussion. But you know, you hear
45:55
Speaker 1: in the media all the time like video games are
45:57
Speaker 1: bad for your braid and might cause violence. It's not
46:00
Speaker 1: even a want to say, is that show um they
46:02
Speaker 1: can help with things like PTSD. They can they have
46:04
Speaker 1: positive impacts. And I know listeners have written in and said,
46:08
Speaker 1: you know, for one reason or the other, I have
46:10
Speaker 1: social anxiety or whatever the case may be. And I
46:12
Speaker 1: really found this online community and it was so important
46:15
Speaker 1: for me, and this gaming was so important for me
46:18
Speaker 1: and in helping with whatever it is, and so like
46:23
Speaker 1: all of this is bad and we should fix it.
46:25
Speaker 1: But I also does have like real as I feel
46:29
Speaker 1: like we always make this point, and I think it's
46:30
Speaker 1: always important to make, but there's real world impacts of
46:33
Speaker 1: these things on your health and on your the communities
46:37
Speaker 1: you can form and even how you feel about yourself.
46:39
Speaker 1: Um so I do think. Ye, this is really really
46:42
Speaker 1: important conversation, right, And I just want to add those
46:45
Speaker 1: because I was looking it up. I wanted to see
46:47
Speaker 1: as you were talking about the board of supporting uh
46:50
Speaker 1: cocheck and I'm like, so, how many women are on
46:52
Speaker 1: the board. There's two, one just recently, so not surprising.
46:57
Speaker 1: But then on top of that a new article saying
46:59
Speaker 1: that they're so loose. Instead of having him resign is
47:02
Speaker 1: to do a new committee that does a workplace responsibility
47:06
Speaker 1: committee and they're going to watch over the workplace and
47:10
Speaker 1: then talk to the directors who co take us a
47:13
Speaker 1: part of He's a director on those board. So you're like, wait,
47:16
Speaker 1: they're not even looking at Why are they looking so
47:19
Speaker 1: far right when this is the problem is right in
47:21
Speaker 1: front of them and this is their solution. Fantastic way
47:25
Speaker 1: to not read the room, guys, not read the room.
47:28
Speaker 1: It's the other title for this episode. It's it's like,
47:34
Speaker 1: I honestly think like parting ways with their CEO is
47:38
Speaker 1: like the least they can do spending more money and
47:41
Speaker 1: more time and more investment in like creating these kind
47:44
Speaker 1: of bs toothless committees to do nothing. I think it's
47:47
Speaker 1: just it just shows how how they're not meaningfully interested
47:52
Speaker 1: in like actual change. It's just like like a band
47:55
Speaker 1: aid and I've even a good a band aid at that.
47:57
Speaker 1: You know. It's literally like, hey, they have told you
48:01
Speaker 1: what the problem is. This is the problem. Why are
48:04
Speaker 1: you doing non work to be like, oh, we we
48:07
Speaker 1: don't know what the problem is. We're gonna we're gonna
48:09
Speaker 1: put another committee when they're like, no, it's clear there's
48:12
Speaker 1: a petition. They've told you what could help to resolve what. Yeah,
48:17
Speaker 1: don't y'all read the Wall Street Journal, because there's a
48:19
Speaker 1: whole thing in here about what what's going on? Like
48:22
Speaker 1: safer money, it's my paper. I mean, this is the
48:25
Speaker 1: obvious when you're talking to Annie of like, oh no, okay,
48:29
Speaker 1: we're just gonna pretend like we don't want to understand.
48:30
Speaker 1: It is sweeping under the rug. Then the yes, yes,
48:36
Speaker 1: I have so many thoughts on this. Oh my, um,
48:39
Speaker 1: but we should wrap it up for now. Thank you
48:44
Speaker 1: as always, Ridget for coming where could the good listeners
48:48
Speaker 1: find you? Thank you for having me. This is always
48:50
Speaker 1: such a treat h. If you're interested in more discussions
48:53
Speaker 1: on the Internet, technology and how women and people who
48:56
Speaker 1: identify as women show up no spaces. You can check
48:59
Speaker 1: out my podcast us to there are No Girls on
49:00
Speaker 1: the Internet. We just did a really interesting couple episodes
49:04
Speaker 1: all about the Astro World tragedy in Houston. So some
49:08
Speaker 1: truly uh wild conspiracy theories coming out of there. So
49:12
Speaker 1: we have a really interesting episode with our researcher debunking them.
49:15
Speaker 1: So please check it out and you can follow me
49:17
Speaker 1: on Twitter at Bridget Murray or on Instagram at Bridget
49:20
Speaker 1: Murray in d C. Yes, and definitely do that if
49:23
Speaker 1: you haven't already. Listeners and bridget Happy Weirdo Christmas. I
49:30
Speaker 1: will Happy Weirdo Christmas to one at all. Yes, Yes,
49:34
Speaker 1: thank you for introducing us to this holiday and thank
49:38
Speaker 1: you listeners for listening. If you would like to contact us,
49:40
Speaker 1: you can or email Stuff your mom Stuff at I
49:42
Speaker 1: hurt media dot com. You can find us on Instagram
49:44
Speaker 1: at Stuff I've Never Told You are on Twitter at
49:46
Speaker 1: mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks as always sure a super producer, Christina,
49:49
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thanks to you for listening. Stuff onever told
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