Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 108: Broken Bones and Loose Change

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Ep. 108: Broken Bones and Loose Change · The MeatEater Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: severely fog bitten in my case, underwear listening podcast. You
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: can't predict anything here. Here's something that came up there.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: They are machine. Yeah, we should introduce everyone. We kind
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: of have alright, we've got into like okay, so Ronald
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: f Ronnie Bam and Ronnie and Ronnie UM. Being in
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: the trades and having employees, Ronnie's name is usually preceded
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: by Evan only by my employees, not clients, by which
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: you and your brothers are several of my ex employee
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: And when I worked there, we would always say Ronnie, UM, Ronnie.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: But you never said to my face, no, have two.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: I was brought up, was not brought up that way.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: I was brought up to talk bad about people behind
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: the back. That's my Midwest upbringing um your honest tell us.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: I got Yanni, A guy rode in to say that
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: if you go into um some voice things, some voice
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: recognition thing and say Janice Poodles, it'll say, did you
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: mean j honest tell us? Yeah, he thinks you must
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: be famous. Won how many times he tried that voice recognition? Yeah,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: Janice Poodles? Now yeah, because When I go to have
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: my car call you, I have to say call Janice,
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: poo tell us and then it pulls you up if
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: I they call y honest, doesn't know what I'm talking about.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Doug durn Here I am and Rufus Wolf. You got it,
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Russell Wolf? You got a brother rufus roof, rufus roof
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: like the one on your house. Uh, the one over
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: this hotel in Sue Falls, South Dakota. Uh, Doug, what
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: we we were talking about this yard day and I
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: made a mistake, And man, did we get a lot
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: of dudes right? And in about um the correction, I
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: said that the biggest white tail ever killed, and I
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: gave the wrong place. Do you know the answer? You'd
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: being a white tail feller? Um? You know? I don't.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: I do, but I don't. I can't. I can't think
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: of it. Yeah. Dirkin drives around on Drkin's truck. Do
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: you know that Dirkin has decales of the world's biggest
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: white tails on his truck. It's like sticker cutouts, doesn't
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: everybody in Wisconsin? He keeps the next his his packers
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: sticker raid around the packers sticker are big giant white
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: tail bucks. I never made the connection there. You don't
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: know about the Milo Hanson about the Ohio Skatchew one. Right,
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: it's a scatch one. I had said that it was
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: shot now bird And this guy says, among several other fellas,
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: says this is incorrect. The world's largest typical white dale
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: white tailed deer was shot in Saskatchewan by Milo Hanson
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: in and five eights inches. This guy also goes on
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: to say, like we get, We get people annoyed all
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: the time because like when we'll talk about various calibers,
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: we don't talk about the three o eight. This guy
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: goes on to say, it's interesting to note that two
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: of the top three world record typical white dale deer
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: were taken by three oh eight winchesters. And he goes
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: on from there to say, this is why I call
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: my three o eight the big giant deer a tractor.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: It's a long name for a caliber. That was the
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: thing I want to bring up another Still, I'm gonna
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: drop coincidence on that one. Un coincidence. I think coincidence too. Uh.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: We get because because we acknowledge corrections. Um, there's some
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: podcasts if they acknowledged corrections, they wouldn't have time for
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: the podcast because there's there's a lot of new shows
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: too out there. We wouldn't have time for the new
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: show if they had to sit around. Yeah, so we
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: um because we acknowledge corrections. I think that it generates
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: a lot more corrections. It's like a Yeah, it's like
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: a snake eating its tail. Two. I had said, how
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: Petty's American Girl. I'm looking at you, ducks. I know
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: you like uh, you're like a music feller. Um. I
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: had said, because I had always heard that American Girl
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: was based on a suicide of a student that in Gainesville, Florida,
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: the Gators. I'd always heard that. This guy wrote in
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: and said, it's complete horseship. It's not about a girl.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: There was a suicide. It's not about that girl. U Um,
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: it's urban legend. Petty talked about it. This guy says,
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: I'm not trying to rag on you, but you ought
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: to know. It's more of a composite or something. It's
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: just not it's like he wrote a song. I had
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: always heard us about this girl killing herself, and if
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: you listen to it, you can kind of see she
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: was a girl. Yeah, and she could hear the cars
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: roll by and all four or forty one and for
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: one desperate moment, Oh god, it's so painful, right one
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: could see. Um. I think it was Sammy Hagar that
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: once said that his lyrics are someone will crack me
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: on this. I think I'm guessing. I think it was
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: sam When he listens to a song and he thinks
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: he knows what they're saying and later learns that they're
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: saying something else, he just takes what he thought they
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: were saying and makes that his song. That's how he
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: writes songs. Maybe, Yeah, it's a great idea. I think
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: there's a U two song where in it he said
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: a few broken bones and some loose change, which I
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: thought was like a great title for a book. That's
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: not what he says that later looked it up and
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: it was. And the Gota davida, you know what he's
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: saying in the Garden of Eden. But that's where it
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: became one and the same. Um, now just gonna blake.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: Look at his face. He's gonna his blank look is
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: not going anywhere soon. Because there's a couple of other
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: things like we got into, like we just happened to
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: cover some stuff that wound up generating like a lot
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: of clarifications. We had talked about the whole all right,
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: Yanni explained, do this be honest. I want you to.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna test your abilities explain corner hopping. Oh, that's easy, okay,
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: and then while doing it, I invite you to to
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: just describe it. Um, you go into the aerial space discussion.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: That's where I'm leading with this because we got into
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: like a legality issue, which we can't start. No. We
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: talked about two things in one, you're still you're not off.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: The you're still gonna explain corner happening. We had a
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: guy right in with a thing where he's saying, and
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: this is something Yanni has done. You're standing on private land,
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: you're standing on public land, and you're looking across an
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: expanse of private land you do not have permission on.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: And on the other side of that private land is
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: more public land upon which stands one's target being deer
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: or whatever. And you shootouch and your bullet flies over
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: the dude's land that you don't have permission on. Is
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: that legal? Yanni's actually done this? No, I was almost
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: almost did it. I probably maybe have I don't know. Um, no,
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: I don't know. And uh that that led into a
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: discussion of the problem with corner hopping, and you, honest
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: will explain corner hopping. Yeah, one minute too. We put
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: the airspace question like, can your bullet fly across land
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: you don't have permission to be on? Can your bullet trespass?
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: We put the airspace question to a game warden in
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: Idaho and said he said, in idho that would be legal.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: But it prompted a lot of listener feedback. Now Yanni
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: will step in and explain corner hopping and how it
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: relates to what we're talking about. Yeah, corner hopping is
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: is in a checkerboard and landscape of where you have
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: different land management and owners. And the easiest way to
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: look at that is imagine a checkerboard and all the
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: black pieces are state, public or federal, all the red
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: red squares are private, so every four corners you have
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: two black and two red. Touch Corner opping would be
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: that if you're on the public the black, you would
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: just step over and through the airspace and onto the
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: other black you get onto another section in the game
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: of checkers. Yeah, okay, um, but I think in most states, Well,
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: I don't know. We'll get into it here because because
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: it's it's it's tricky. Yeah, and I only think we're
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: gonna resolve it today. I think it's gonna be an
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: ongoing thing. We're want to have some experts on to
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: talk about it. There is no resolution. There's no resolution,
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: and which which we'll discuss in the minute. So, um,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: you have to explain it well enough for you. Yeah. Yeah.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: So people are basically saying that, no, you can't corner
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: hot because although you're not touching my land, you're going
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: through the airspace above my land when you corner hot. Okay, Joel,
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: go ahead, du question, let me let me I stop
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: the Irish question of oh, already know what it is
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: because I think it dude brought it up, or dude
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: that road In brought it up, the idea that because
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: I want to check something, all right, roof, did you
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: follow that? Oh? Absolutely? Really? Oh yeah for sure. And
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: I could argue I could go from red to red
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: without infringing on any black space. It's white, isn't it. Well?
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: He used black and red. Really on a checkerboard, it's
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: black and red. Chess is normally black and white. All right, Yes,
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: theoretically one could step from Okay, go ahead, dug a tree.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: So a tree is growing on your property line and
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: the branches and it's on the neighbor's property. But those
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: branches are hanging over your onto your land or onto
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: your not your land, onto your space, into your over
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: your driveway, onto your house. Can you cut those branches off? Oh? Yeah,
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: I used to be an arbor's well, that's why I
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: knew that. As I've been involved, I've been up in
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: the tree as the neighbors argued that. I've looked down
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: at the tops of head the tops of the heads
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: of individuals engaged in such argument with the chainsaw idling.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: And yeah, oh, speaking of chainsaws idling, my um, I
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: told my kids the story of one your dad chopped
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: himself open with the chainsaw. Why would you tell your
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: kids that story? Yeah, don't know why, But you know
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: what part they like a lot is the part I
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: like that You told me that that your old man, um,
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: you know, like, drives himself to a bar, he gets
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: met of act and later someone goes out to retrieve
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: his stuff. It's like an ad for the chainsaw. What
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: kind of saw? Was this a home? Later they go
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: out to retrieve his dad's stuff out in the woods
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: where he like fingers no no, yeah, and the saws
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: laying there on the woods. What what? What? What? Still?
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: That's the punt that they love that detail. But I
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: thought you when you started to say that, I thought, well,
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: he's gonna teach them the lesson. Of of course they're
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: a little young for it. But I've always have your
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: vehicle pointing out because you never know when you're gonna
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: need to leave in a hurry. You know, I can't
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: remember how I got into it, and they don't have
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: They don't drive yet, the oldest being seven. Yeah, but
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: you know what their bikes, they could start your scooter
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: or leaving faith because that time Steve's checking everyone, did
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: you back your bike in? Alright, go downstairs? Um. Yeah.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: They like the part that the saw was still all
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: the woods running, and they bring it up all the time. Yeah,
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: they like the story about a good saw, all right.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: Joel Webster from t RCP, We're still on this corner
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: crossing correction. It's not a correction. Clarification, he writes in
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: to say, in regards to your discussion about corner crossing,
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: it's a legal gray area. The State of Montana's access
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: guide says it is not recommended. It doesn't say that
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: it is illegal. He's never heard of anyone being cited
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: by it, cited for it, but they do not recommend it.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: I email some guys who worked for the state government
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: of Wyoming and he goes on to say it is
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: not there definitive either, and there's no specific statute on
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: the book. However, the attorney general in the state's Attorney
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: General in two thousand four reviewed it and said you
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: might not be able to do it. It's as close
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: as they've come. So some legislators because because he's saying
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: that you the cornerlines are infinitely thin and there's no
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: way to cross without entering private airspace. Some legislators have
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: attempted to introduce bills directly authorizing corner crossing, or others
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: have introduced legislation to specifically prohibit it. Neither gets much
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: attraction with lawmakers. County attorneys rarely, if ever, try to
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: prosecute for corner crossing unless it's adding to a list
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: of additional offenses to use as a settlement chip. He can't,
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: this guy can't, and this guy's an attorney, he can't
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: remember the last time he saw someone actually convicted of
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: corner crossing. That said, it's wildly understood as impermissible in Wyoming. Um.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: He goes not permissible, not permissible, and the check He
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: goes on to say how the checkerboard areas have allowed
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: to do with how the railroads were structured and funded,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: And he says that the inability to jump corners prohibits
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: access to literally hundreds of thousands of acres of public land.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: So there's that another guy question. I mean this happens
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: to bird hunters constantly. I mean you, I mean, it
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: doesn't even happen to mountains too much. But we we've
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: been doing it forever. Corner crossing, Yeah, because the corner
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: What states have you corner hopped in South Dakota, North
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: Dicote all the time. But is that private land to
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: private land? Yeah, it's private in the private land. But
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: I don't see that. What oh you mean corner hopping
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: over another dude's private right right that you don't have
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: permission on? Don't have permission? How do you know your
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: boots in the right spot? We just do it well mathematically,
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: You're you're gonna be stepping on somebody's land, right, if
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: you don't unless if there has to be a corner
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: post there and you've got a good you've got a GPS,
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: you could do it right. But you know when we
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: when the farmer gives us like hunt at eight and
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: then the next one over is mine too, And you
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: can tell they're butted only on the corner. They're made
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: by the same fence. You you know, Yeah, they're butted
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: on the corners. And we don't even go in the corner.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: We go to the nearest post words safe, and so
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: we're just but our intention isn't a hunt on that
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: person's land. Our intention is to get to that next
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: piece of property. I put it to a guy in
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: Idaho fishing game officer in Idaho um Idaho Code thirty
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: six DASH thirte known as Recreational Trestpass. The keywords are
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: no person shall enter the property of another and then
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: there's criminal trustpass. And he says they would ultimately if
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: one were to do this like you've done it, and
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: and the the guy that owns the land would get
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: piste um. He says, it's probably if this sort of
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: happened in Idaho, it's probably gonna come down to the
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: members of a jury, and they haven't had to. They
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: haven't had to. No one's been got it that far.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: Where was interpreted? Do I say it's legal? He says,
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: until it's challenged in the case you know it goes
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: to court. It's uncharted territory. I'm surprised to hear all
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: this because like the way you're told, you know, and
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: it's spelled out, everybody thinks that you cannot do it.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: Not recommended, but it's not well, it sounds like I
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: think that in in Wyoming. I think he's saying that
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: I can see so so we had not one of
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: our camera guys heard us talking about this, and he
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: wrote into and he got into this thing where like
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: how much air do you own above your property? And
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: he said the Supreme Court acknowledged that the air above
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: your property um extends at least up to eighty three
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: ft because the Air Force was flying planes buzzing low
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: over a guy's place and scared a bunch of his
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: chickens to death and he won a lawsuit for them
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: infringing on his thing. Rick thinks it's more likely to
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: be to be, you know, about five feet the Supreme
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: Court hasn't explicitly accepted that as the for a limit
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: of property ownership, but it's a useful guideline and trespass cases,
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: which your damn bullet isn't that high? Your bullets five
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: five ft off the ground, or if you're leaning over,
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: if you're leaning over the fence, can can you use
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: that person spent post for a rifle rest? Yeah, So
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: the military is found to be violating a guy's property
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: rights by buzz and aircraft over it. So the fact
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: that you can buzz bullet over it um in this case.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: So you need to be limiting someone's ability to enjoy
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: their property. And I could see that someone would say
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: bullets flying around on my property limits my ability to
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: enjoy it. And the fact that they killed his chickens
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: or whatever, to you know, it's a loss of property.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: So see, I could tie that into another scatter gun thing.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: You're allowed to hunt the ditches here in South Dakota
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: because we're tying us into South Dakota. In South Dakota,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: so it's legal to hunt the ditches in South Dakota
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: even if it's private property, because because the it's a
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: right way, it's a right away. They don't mind you
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: shooting that close to the road, is there. Yeah, there's
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: rules about unimproved unimproved roads, unimproved roads not not blacked out. Yeah,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: you're common road. In South Dakota, you know, gravel road.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: So that's totally legal. I guarantee it. I'm not doubting.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: But now in North Dakota it's the opposite. North Dakota,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: you cannot hunt the ditch unless you have permission of
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: the landowner that it butts the ditch. But my point
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: is state to state difference. Stay state different. But my
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: point is, so when we're ditch hunting pheasants, they come
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: out and they fly. They don't usually fly right down
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: the road. They fly out into private property and we
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: will shoot them, and you have to get permission to retrieve.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: In some states you have to get permission to retrieve
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: the pheasant. Let's just use pheasant free the analogy. Do
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: you have to get permission or in some states you've
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: gotta You can't have your gun without firearm. Without firearm,
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: you can walk in and get get it without permission,
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: but some places you have to have permission. But what
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: I get in at is the propellant, the bullets the babies.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: They're damn sure going over that's my point, thank you.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: They're landing in his property, not even going over it.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: You are littering lead into his property. That think it's
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: always legal because you're shot is always landing exactly especial
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: as we have another question guy, that's throw it in
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: about but I'm not going to get into that one
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: right now. So it is interesting, but you're you're putting
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: lead into somebody's dog. I just want to know what
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: you what you're as a substantial landowner. What's your opinion
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: on the corner? You don't I know because I know
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: your property lines that you don't have that instance. But
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: let's just say that you had locked up forty acres
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: of Wisconsin state land in the middle, but there was
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: a corner to get in there. It seems fine to me.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: You know, I'd prefer that somebody came and asked. But
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: you know, hey, is this gonna be all right? Yeah?
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: Well everyone would prefer that. Want to ask everybody everything right?
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: But uh yeah, I don't think that's you know what
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, if it's state land, it's state land. You know.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: Being the kind of guy I am, might probably put
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: a little access corridor across my property to it. Nice
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: little dove climbing. Because that see this issue going to
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: write in and say bullshit, I know, Durham. Well, this
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: issue really starts to make its own gravy because here's this.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: A guy writes in from Alaska and this gout, This
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: subject got him thinking. He writes in from Alaska. He
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: explains that he is moose hunting on the Kenai Peninsula
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: and he's on just like let's just say, like a
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: general public land and his back is to a state
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: park in the state park. And like most states, you
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: can't hunt state parks, but some states there are some
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: state parks you can hunt. And this is a state
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: park in Alaska where you can hunt. You cannot discharge
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: a firearm on it. It just as in the state park.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: It's archery only same rags apply, same bag limits and
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: seasons apply, just no firearm discharge, so you can bow
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: hunt it. He's sitting on which is I don't know
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: what it was. Let's say he's on state forest with
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: his back to state park, looking out this way to
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: kill a moose on state forest with his rifle. Turns around.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: Biggest blackberries has ever seen is twenty yards out of
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: the state park. He doesn't shoot because he's like, you
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: can't shoot a gun. You can't kill him in there
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: with a gun. He comes home as oh Man is
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: on his case because he's like, you didn't You would
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: not have discharged a firearm in the state park. You
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: would have discharged the firearm in the state forest. The
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: bear died in the state park from a firearm wound,
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: a firearm wound, but you didn't discharge your gun there.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: You you should have shot the bear. He says. I've
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: never even bothered to all Alaska Fishing Game because there's
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: no way they'll give me a straight answer. So I
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: call Alaska Fishing Game and right away I make the
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: mistake of saying, like what I do for a living.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: And so then I had to deal with the public
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: affairs person and I get to explain it to him,
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: the thing, and they refuse. They're like who, And I'm like,
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: it's just a guy. What year? But he didn't do it?
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, he didn't do it. He's just a guy.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: And then I got frustrated, and I grew frustrated and
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: I'm like, hey, let's just say hypothetically we don't deal
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: in hypothetical laws. I'm like, come on, man, that's how
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: far I got with that. Well, that's a bummer because
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: they really sometimes kind of pride themselves on having it
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: spelled out in the REGs that you don't have hypotheticals
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: and white. Well, they said, you gotta tell me the
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: year in the exact location. That's pretty black and white.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: But I mean, I just feel like it's would be possible.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: You know, sure I could. I would have had to
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: tell him the year in the exact location, which I
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: didn't have from the guy. I could have wrote the guy,
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: he's listening right now. You'd had to provide all that
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: extra detail. But it just goes to show. But if
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: you might recall this sign that's on my friend on
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: the land next to my friend Tyson's property, it says,
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: do not shoot into these woods. Of course, we've now
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: made a sign on the opposite side that says do
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: not shoot out of those woods. But I wonder about
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: that too. You know, the same idea. It's a private
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: land issue. Okay, one more of these things, one more
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: of these things. We gotta take care of the whole
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: thing we're talking about with, like, hey, a guy writes
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: in and he says, I live in a state where
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: you can't bait, no salt licks, no mineral licks, nothing
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: but ranchers put him out for cattle. So can I
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: sit over that I didn't put it there? Right? Lots
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: of it depends, that depends. So lots of people wrote
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: in about this. Um. Now this guy points out an
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: interesting thing to just happened in Alabama. In Alabama, formally
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: you could not hunt over bait. They clarified loosened this
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: law recently and changed to say THEO this is what
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: the law says. There is a rebuttal assumption that any
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: bait or feed located beyond one yards from the hunter
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: and not within the line of sight of the hunter
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: is not a lure. So he says, now people have
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: taken to putting a large hay bale one hundred yards
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: from their blind and putting bait beyond the large hay bale.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: O God, because it's I'm hundred yards away from it,
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: and it's out of my line of sight, and I'm
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: a pretty good shot up to a hundred fifty yards. Yeah,
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: and I know if the head's sticking out of that
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: and I see its tail I know where those vitals are.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: This guy had gripe. Okay the whole That guy is
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: great for a minute. This guy. That led to a
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: conversation about if you're out hunting and you, um, if
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: you're out hunting you kill a deer, say, and you're
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: in a you're in a no baiting state. You're in
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: a no bear baiting state. When you kill a deer
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: and the bear starts eating the deer carcasses, that baiting.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: I said, no, This guy says, depends where you are.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: He was hunting and he's from British Columbia. They were
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: out hunting moose in northern BC. They had jet boarded
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: Upper River to their moose camp. Their bodies have been
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: in there a week before and they had killed a
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: moose across the river from camp. You could actually see
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: the carcass and guppile from the camp. These guys had
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: a grizzly tag. This is before the recent uh bann
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: on grizz hunting in BC. And halfway through their hunt,
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: a British Columbia game warden shows up in a helicopter
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: to check them out. He's checking them out. They explained
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: they had a grizzy tag. And this gentleman informs them
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: that it would be illegal for them to shoot a
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: bear on that kill, and that would be regarded as
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: baiting a bear since it was a hunter killed carcass.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: If that moose had died of natural causes, it would
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: not be baiting. That was the interpretation from the law
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: or just these guys, apparently that's the interpretation the law.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: A hunter killed carcass is regarded as bait. A naturally
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: killed carcass is not all right. We put that to
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: bed kind of in Colorado here, Okay, Colorado, you can't
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: bait bears, but you're a okay if you if you
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: kill a bear off of your own gut pile this guy.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: This is the last thing on this issue. This guy
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: had real gripe with how we were saying ranchers use
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: them use the salt licks. He said, he'd like to
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: point out that, um, you just oftentimes these salts and
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: minerals are distributed by ranchers in order to keep cattle
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: away from vital riparian areas to keep and you brought
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: this up. You put a salt lick out in order
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: to um congregate animals and your fences does all making sense, Doug,
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: you run a couple of cattle, Yeah, I run a
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: few cattle. You put salt out for him. I put
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: white salt and trace mineral salt. Like the salt. I
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: have it close to the building, so I don't really
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: get too many deer right down to the buildings. But yeah, no,
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: of course you're like salt. But um, yeah, the purpose
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: for doing it is, I mean, it's a health thing
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: one they like salt and the trace minerals. It's what
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: do you play some strategically. It doesn't matter in your location.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: You're not dealing with vast acreages. And I put them
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: close to a place that I can back the truck
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: up to carry it very far. And they're heavy. Right.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: Does anybody here know Haywood Banks, the musician Haywood Banks. Don't.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: Do you have young children? You should look up Haywood Banks.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: I don't have young children. Yeah, such hits as Um,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: I'm looking at the world through flies eyes. Dead puppies
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: aren't much fun. Do you think you know what I've
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: been saying? I think maybe someone else saying dead puppies
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: aren't much fun. I was gonna bring up because ny Ronnie,
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: I want to talk about the dogs, the dogs, the
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: dogs with you lost, I've not surprised breeding age. Yeah,
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: dogs from my kettle brock it Italian animals. Yeah, two
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: of them and one felt swoop and one. Is it
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: best your pro Is it best to get into this
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: into this tragedy? Is it best your approach through the
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: lens of monetary value or through the lens of emotional value? Both?
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: Let's start with what you want to start with? Emotional, Yeah,
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: emotionally laid out from you emotional Emotionally, we'll talk about
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: the strange circumstances under which these dogs perished. So emotionally,
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: your dogs become part of your family, just like kids.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: At some days you like some of them better than others,
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: but you'll love them all. So the loss of the
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: dog is a loss, is a personal loss. So that's
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: the emotional part of it. And the traumatic part of
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: it then is the way in which they die. There's different.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: Like an example, I gave a German short hair puppy
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: to Rusty all of years ago, how many years ago? Twenty? Hello,
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: you guys been friends about four but late night and
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: back up you gave him what I gave him a
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: short hair puppy German short hair puppy one he couldn't
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: sell because it had but you weren't a breeder then,
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: not a breeder, recreational breeder, recreational breeder and and uh
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: his dog died at age six. When the dog wasn't
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: he brought it up to my place, no blind and
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: we went to the vet. And even though I hadn't,
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: I mean I saw the dog once a year, I
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: had to go to the vet with him and we
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: put the dog down. And that was an emotional So
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: the emotional part of it six years old, dog years
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: that that strikes, That strikes how old are you, Steve Home.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: I don't like that one. It is sad. Yeah, so
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: I was crying for that dog. Even so, the emotional
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: loss for that dog tears rolling down your cheek. My
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: vet tech she's seen me in there a few times.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: And when I went in there and I was saying
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: goodbye to her, they were they were just rolling down
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: my face and she looked and she'd never seen me
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: crying before bringing dogs in dead or alive. Ruth answered
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: this as though around he's not in the room. Was
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: the good bird dog? Um? It didn't get enough formal
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: training early on but she was she had a will
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: of unbelievable, but she was not a real graceful hunter. Yeah.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: So it's like a smart kid that never got to
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: go to school. Yeah, alright, so okay, so they're six
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: year old dog. I'm just trying to to that's the
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: emotional part the what was you rather qu the financial
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: part of it? Yeah, because these are high test dogs. Yeah.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: And nowadays, when when you go to feasant Fest and
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: walk the floor, which you haven't today, when you when
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: you're down there, you're gonna see a bunch of dog
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: breeds there. Now, I would venture to say they're all
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: within a few hundred dollars of what my dogs cost nowadays.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: But thing was ten years ago my dogs cost twice
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: as much as them. So it's definitely because of rarity.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: The rarity because there's not many just like a rare coin.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: You know, you can't get much for nickel when they
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: made fifty million nickels in your coin collection. But now
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: there people are. The dogs have come up to a
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: different price level. So it's just dogs in general, dogs
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: and dogs in general. Janni, did you look into that
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: long hair? I told you that German long hair. I
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: went I looked into it. We went and looked at
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: you looked at Yeah. Yeah, bird dogs in general are
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: more expensive now like than ever before and way beyond
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: like rates of inflation. Yes, what do you attribute that to? Uh,
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: most people's emotions and what they want. Just like we're
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: able to buy bigger houses than we used to be
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: able to, were able to buy more truck with a
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: longer payment. I think we just McMansion is kind of mentality.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: There's some exposure, better exposure nowadays though, Right, we didn't
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: know anything about hunting dogs when we were hunting back
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: in Illinois. And you're right, and people put way more
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: weight on health testing, so people are investing more into
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: their breeding stock than they used to. So like so
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: the ceiling, the ceiling has gone up, but you can
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: still go out and get all kinds of free dogs
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: at the pound. Right. Yeah. In fact, I'm going to
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: interview a guy who only hunts with dogs. He rescues
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: from a pound, bird dogs, beagles to that word drives
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: me crazy. I don't when you were a kid, you
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: went down and to the pound and got a dog.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: Now you go down to the pound and rescue was
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: like like she was in the middle of the lake
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: and you had to give him a life preserved like
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: its mouth. I don't know why. It's like such an
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: old man. You think there's certain words that come out
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: and be an old many. Yeah, well okay, like used
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: to go over to your body's house. Now you have
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: a play date. It's like, I don't used to be there, Like, oh,
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: you know, you know that Stevie got a newer Bobby
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: got a new dog. Where are you get it here?
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: I don't even went down to the pound and got
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: a dog. It's like, oh, I rescued this dog. It's
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: like that you come in and they got a pistol
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: of the dog's head. Throw yourself in front of it. Now,
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: right now, you're taking a dog or not. The trap
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: door is released and the news comes tight. Now, rescue
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: would be a bunch of dogs that we're gonna be
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: put down and you break in the night before. I'd
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: be like that, don't joke. I rescued the dog. He
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: was right outside the gas chamber. We're backing up to
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: gurneys out there the crematorium fired up. What sant is?
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: I just used that word rescue and I never used
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: to use that word rescue. Because it's just like I
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: used play date. Now I just gave in, and now
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, so you know Rosemary is having to
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: played it. Yeah, alright. So anyways, the ceiling, like like
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: the limit that people are comfortable paying for a dog
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: you have seen go up during your time as a dog,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: to even to even a breed that maybe have uh,
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: let's say a particular breed that I judge. I see
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: a lot of German short hairs. You could find one
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: in almost every town in the United States over x
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: amount of population. Breeder, even those dogs that you can
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: find without traveling to Europe or all the way across
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: the country, those dogs, those people have raised the bar
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: and they're breeding, their health testing their selection of who
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: they're gonna breed, and they're like, my dogs are worth
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: that too. And once you can't find a five short
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: are you're gonna pay fifteen dar for a short hair.
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: So that's what a run of the middle decent, pedigreed
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: short hair goes, I would say a good one. So
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: you started the years ago we've talked about before, you
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: started to traffic in uh battalion Broccos, Brocco Italianos, and uh,
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: you breed them. Yeah, and the bitch we'll put off
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: up to usually tend to twelve puppies. That was getting at. Yeah,
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: and then you sell these puppies and you usually sell
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: them before they're born. Is that not true? But for
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: pre sold like people pay a deposits them, well, yeah,
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: they had to pay a deposit or I keep an
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: email from them, or but they're almost always sold before
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: the time they're ten weeks. I'm certain it was not
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: Hayward Banks who song Dead Puppies Go Much fun. I
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: got it for you right here. I didn't get too
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: deep into it. There's looks like there's two. There's like
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: a band called Dr Demento that's saying it. But then
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: also ogden Edzel. Yeah, I don't know what those guys
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: a good song. Um, So people write in and say
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: I want one, but you never know how many you're
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: gonna have anyways, right, So that's why you can't close
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: the deal. Yeah, you can't. You just gotta wait. And
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: how many, uh in a dog and a dog that
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: you've owned, how many puppies have you been able to
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: sell off a single dog? Ah? Probably I'm gonna if
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: I'd be accurate, I'm gonna say thirty eight or forty female,
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: So one female can kick out fifty thousand dollars worth
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: of puppies. Yes, yes, I'm just getting to the monetary
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: back right, right right, And actually a little more than that,
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: because if you take the number forty forty puppies thanks
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: to two thousand, that's eighty thousand, so they're more valuable.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: I mean you can get too because of those. The
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: fella could get two thousand dollars for a brock Italian. Hey, sorry,
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: so we don't have to deal with a correction later.
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: The band name, I left it open enough, but there's
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: no room for connections. Man name is ogden Edzel though
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: friends are it was a part of the band. Dr
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: Demento is a show that was played on often. There's
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: also Keith Johnson and Bill Carey were in the band.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: You're welcome. Um, yeah it goes dead. Puppies are much fun.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: Um and that's true. Your kids are gonna send it,
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: so okay, So that's the monetary because it was like,
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: so now I'll tell the story what happened. Well, I
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: just want to establish the emotional and financial right, and
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: it was you cannot help but think that like, oh
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: my God, I would have bread that dog two more times.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: And if anybody's you'll hear breeders say this, and they
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: can all send me the hate meal. You shouldn't be
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: breeding for money, like you shouldn't be you shouldn't be
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: breeding to lose money, you know what I mean? You know,
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: why would you set yourself up unless you're like, as
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: it called pro bonal lawyer. I'm not a pro bonal breeder.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: And the dog like, it's not that the dogs particularly
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: that that it's not a like a foregone conclusion that
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: that type of dog is any better at honing than
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: any other type of There's like there's certain amount of
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: aesthetics and it's it's a look and it's a demeanor
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: that they happen to have. But I could find you
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: that demeanor in almost every other breed. Just have to
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: find the right So you kind of fall in love
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: with sort of like just like the groove of the dog, Yeah, exactly,
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: it's not use that term, no, the general prove of
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: the dog, the general vibe of the how it kind
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: of just relates to people and from the couch to
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: the field, right, it's a tie it um. And so
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: you fell in love with this kind of dog, right,
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: And I've lost a lot of dogs over the years,
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: you know, and back when I was in my thirties
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: and forties, I don't know. I don't remember really crying
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: over it. You know. It's as I got older and
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: to become a father and it's gonna be a grandfather.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: I'm turning into a big blubbering baby when it comes
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: to yeah, becoming tuned. I don't on Facebook when they
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: die or anything. That's my you know a lot of
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: people do that. No, never, because you mean you don't
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: want to like solicit, want to solicit people find out lady, Yeah,
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: I don't. I don't. But anyway, talking about what happened
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: to the dogs, so I went down who was Oscar
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: and Katie and tell what their background was. Oscar was
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: a two year old male who one was just starting
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: to get his wings in the field as far as
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: being a good or a dog. And he had also
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: his confirmation, his build, his his whole body was like,
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: let's say, like a bodybuilding like if you had a
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: bodybuilding contest. A confirmation contest is a bodybuilding contest for dogs.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: The judge walks up and says, nice muscles, nice back legs,
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: nice straight, he's not bow legged like me. You know
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: the dog gates across the so like a pug isn't
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: gonna do well on this against other pugs, not against
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: so he had on top of in his case being
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: a male, he had a monetary value down to future
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: of people would want to breed to him because you
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: don't want to lose the breeding body type. He had
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: a classic if he's gonna throw a dog that looks
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: like a broco Tex exactly. Yeah. Question, so is his
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: value similar to that of the of the female because
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: of his No, because I probably could never get forty
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: breedings out of him. Why not? I mean, because you
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: don't want togistically logistically and you don't want in a
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: small breed. You don't want the sire to be the
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: same in fifteen different states, because now you're losing out
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: on breeding ability. Then you're breathing, you're breeding daughters to
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: fathers and so so can I ask you one other thing?
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: So is that then why you were saying? I mean,
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: if I did the math, they're having eight to ten,
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: So you're really only breeding that female four time, four times, three,
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: three or four times. But she's living to be fourteen
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: or so. You stop out of sympathy to the dog.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: You stop out of like mostly by the time they're eight.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: Most people will never breed a dog because it's too
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: hard on It's too hard just like a woman. Do
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: you know you're gonna get higher instance of down syndrome
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: and a mother over forty than you will a woman
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: in her twenties. Same thing with puppies. Already's last letter,
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: we thought we were gonna lose three and we had
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: to do a cesarean. She couldn't deliver the last dog.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: She was seven and a half when she had a letter.
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: Uh do they do AI on dogs or do you
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: ship the dog? Sure? Oh yeah, yeah, this one, this
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: one might take a minute. First time a lady wanted
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: to breed to another dog I had, which was Oscar's
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: relations client. A lady in California saw my dog, saw
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: pictures of it, and then looked at the because I
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: gotta breed to your dog. I want your dog's lines
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: and my females loins and that's how. And she goes,
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: have you ever been to a reproduction clinic? I'm like no,
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: And so she's googling all this. I'm at Working Virginia
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: in the valley, and she writes me back. She goes,
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: there's a clinic two hours away from you. Blah blah blah.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: That's okay. I need you to be there Tuesday for
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: a collection. Because she's monitoring the progester owns uh numbers
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: on her female, so she knows that first overnight frozen
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: or chilled seamen has got to leave on Tuesday. So
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: and the female is gonna be righte it, She'll be
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: right it, She'll be right for so many days. And
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: we'll have to do this a couple of times, so
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: you cover a span anyway. So I have never Doug,
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: you might be able to speak to this. I didn't
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: know how they collect those strange a little ai okay.
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: I did not know how they extract the semen out
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: of an animal. I've never seen it done, never asked
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: your picture. Will needle a needle or some kind of
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: a catheter, like you know, running up the sheath, and
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: why not have a little fun. So so and you
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: know me, I'm not short on flirtation or anything else, right,
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: and I'm not a quiet guy. I walk in with
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: my dog, she says, follow me, this very tall, good
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: looking brunette. Um that with a Russian accent, which I
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: happened to really love a Russian accent. She says, come,
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: fits me, come fit me. You know you I handed
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: the dog. She said, no, no, you come with that.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: Better with you with Yeah, that's the best I can
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: do for female. Maybe if he said Soviet block and
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: more he loves a little more wiggle, he was like
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: like Colonel Click, like wernerd Kempler and Hogan's hero German. Yeah,
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: well Eastern block, you know, so those areas got wrapped
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: up in World War two. Somehow smart kid who didn't
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: get to go to school or or acting school. So
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: she comes and comes and come, come, come, come, and
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: and honest to god, she was on a scale of ten.
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: She was an easy eight, beautiful woman about forty years old,
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: and she has me. She goes, you hold the dog's color.
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: So I'm standing to the side of the dog, and
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: she calls for the vet tech to come in with
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: if this happened to be a Golden Retriever that was
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: in heat, so they backed the Golden Retriever in tail,
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: you know, butt two nose, And of course the male
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: is like whoa you know, he starts sniffing, his tail,
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: starts wagging, and he starts getting a little excited, which
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: all male dogs will do. And and she proceeds to
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: straddle over my dog and she's stroking his back. God,
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: that's a good boy. That's a good boy. He actually
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: proceeds to give him a reach around under under his groin.
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: And for the life of me, I didn't really believe
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: what she was doing. She was getting him, exciting him.
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: And then she reaches over for this baggy, this long
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: triangular bag about eighteen inches long, and she puts that
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: in her other hand. And now she's doing she's she's
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: milking the dog and she's silk. But her talking, she was,
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: dad's a good book. Oh yeah, good boy, I'm tracking.
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: I am standing. You found this, you found this to
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: be No, I love you found me slightly erotic. No,
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: it was only when she introduced herself did I get
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: a little like, oh, he's cute. Okay, alright, So you
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: walk in and initially I think I'm going a hand
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: a dog, and then she's like, I'm you know, I'm
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: a married man. But I can acknowledge that the beautiful woman, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: you smart, beautiful woman the rest of it's just I'm
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: aware of this, and you're saying that that didn't that
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: that those feelings didn't escalate with the milking. No, no,
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: they didn't escalated it for you. They killed it. Because
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: I'm glad to hear this. I could not, you know,
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: I've always gone getting look scited doing telling. Ruf made
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: me tell the story last night again in the hotel room.
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: Stay on that at all? Right before you went to bar,
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: did you say any thing like, um, wow, how you know?
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: How do you feel about that process? Tongue tied totally
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: a camera on you during the I was like, I
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: mean I wanted to be like the smart Alec like
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: a comedian and go like next, you know, but that's
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: called her, that's called sex. But I mean I couldn't
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: even think of the funny things I wanted to think
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: about it. I was totally embarrassed. It would be like
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: it'd be like walking in on um Sue given the
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: kids a sex talk when they were going I'd be like,
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: this isn't comfortable. I was totally uncomfortable your own watching
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: your dog. So that was your answer to Ai. Yes,
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: I'm familiar with Ahi and Doug. Do you do that
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: to a cow, not you personally, But the AI part
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: hasn't happened yet, the AI part just folks, this is
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: the collection process. Yeah, they didn't mail it off. And
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: then she takes a turkey baster. It was a contrast
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: several ways. Yeah, and you're putting the dog and breathe
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: the dog. I'm surprised that it has to be so fresh,
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: because with cattle, you know, frozen seemed a free seamen.
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: You can use a bullet's been dead for years. Well,
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: we do, I've I've actually I had him collected, dropped
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: him off at a collection because he was such a
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: good dog, good example of the breed in up in
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: Cincinnati or uh Columbus. Uh. He's still frozen in some
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: straws to this day. But I didn't have a hurry.
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: She's in a hurry because she's right. And with dogs,
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: see because I don't, because it's we're looking for multiple puppies.
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: What do you get two calves or one? Only? Usually one?
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: Sometimes too so with dogs, the more counts per million
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: of live protozola, spermazoid or whatever the word is, So
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: you want it frozen will work and you'll usually get
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: a smaller litter. Typically it's not a rule, but typically,
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: and so fresh yeah, fresh chilled is the next best
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: into homemade homemade, yeah homegrown. M did how much did
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: you get for that when you did that? Standard? Is
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: the price of a puppy at that point? And and
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: then the dog starts like and going to the vet too,
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: literally you bring him into it. Just check us out
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: about check this out about Ranny's dogs their day. I
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: called Ronnie on the phone. We're talking on the phone,
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: and the dogs are going ape ship his dogs barking
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: and squealing. His dogs have figured out that when he's
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: on the phone, like, he'll be on the phone and
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: they'll make noise and he'll be like and let him
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: all out because they're making noise. Now when he gets
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: on the phone, they just make noise. They just because
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: I know that he'll brew him out for making noise
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: when he's on the phone. But I could be on
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: my computer forever, listen to YouTube whatever. They don't say nothing.
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: They lay there a minute. I'm on that phone, like
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: I got a biscuit or a bone, or I get
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: to go out. I'm I'm interested about the Golden Retriever
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: and the collection. Uh, facility. Well, no, because obviously they must.
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: They just have a rotating stock of females that yes,
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: they are a good vet clinic that is specialized in
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: um artificial AI or even people actually bring their two
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: dogs to a vet to let them do it because
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: they're afraid of the process. But they they are UM.
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: But so those clinics are so big that there's almost
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: always a dog coming in for a progester own test.
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: And on one, on one occasion, I had cotton balls
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: at a place they did not have a bitch in heat.
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: They call her teaser bitch. There was no teaser bitch.
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: So they had cotton balls that they continually dab on
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: the females, uh back end, and then they keep them
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: in a jar. Oh and it's like us do is
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: bit still? Like? Is bitch still widely acceptable in the
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: dog world? Like if I were to walk up to
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: which I did yesterday, I would said, that's a nice
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: looking bitch. And you definitely use the word bitch. Yeah,
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: you don't say dog, you say bitch. Or let's look anyone,
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: I don't know anybody would skip on saying. Imagine that
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: there was the sire sire you can call them the boy,
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: the guy. Imagine there was a nun, a nun dog breeder.
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: Oh none, like a like a none dog breeder. Would
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: she say, my bitch, I'm gonna did you go to
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: any Catholic school? I got an aunt. It's a Catholic
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: done dog breeder. Do you think she would have said,
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: do you think she has time for a call? Do
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: you have an aunt who's a nun? Yeah, a couple
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: of uncles that were priests. Would she use bitch or
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: a synonym? Synonym? So it's not totally so anyways, I
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: want I won't go back to the to the backup plan.
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: When you don't have a dog in heat. With those
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: cotton balls, there might be whole opportunity for a line
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: of Brittany magazines or something for Yeah, I was gonna
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: point that out because guys, I've talked to you. Yeah, guys,
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: I've talked to you. Who have to go in and
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: do Guys I talked to you have to go in
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: and do a sample. They're not bringing in a labador,
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: No they're not. But then you know they're go into
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: a room with magazines. Then you gotta Then you come
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: out and you're like out back out in the clinic,
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: and I had a number of friends say, it's just
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: always so awkward because like everyone that works there, because
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: you've been like in there thumbing through some magazine. It's like, yeah,
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: it's like yeah, come and be like I got what
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: you need right here. But I had to do that
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: after getting a vast act of me. I had to
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: bring in a number of samples. Believe, you go back home,
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: then you came. Yeah, you come back in. When you
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: come back in, you can sort of have the aura
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: about you as though you had assistance with this collector.
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: No one knows how you worked it up, right, so
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: you can kind of like maintain like some self composure
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: and be like, oh yeah, buddy, but don't you worry
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: about how I worked up teem. I got to digress
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: to back to duck because I want to know how
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: they do I wonder how they do it with a bull.
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: We never had bulls that we collected from when we
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: had dairy cattle. We had a whole stein bull for
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: a while, and then he just did it on his
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: own right, and his being deadly a big thing. Right
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: There's I've only been to facility once and that was
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: when I was in high school. And which is the
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: wrong place to take a bunch of high school boys.
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: But uh so they actually had steers that they did
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: the same thing with that they were rubbing. Yeah, they're
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: in heat rubbing what well, they were rubbing estrogen or
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: from a cow that's in heat on because I turned
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: around to arouse him and and then there you said, steer,
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: you no, the steer. They don't use a cow, So
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: they rubbed the stuff on the back of a steer.
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: Come on, that's what they do to that poor thing. Well,
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: and it's don't want to cow maybe because then they
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: don't have to have cows around, And so they want
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: to take a steer and rub the smell of a
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: ripe cow. And then it's a collection thing like that,
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: except they're smelling be like, man, I'm seeing one thing
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: and smelling another. Yeah, because remember the story we heard
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: when we were in Wyomen trapping beavers. How that dude
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: how the neighborhood lost a bunch of steers because they
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: had like it was like an overdose or too much
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: of that implant drug that they had given it in
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: a bunch of those steers were getting like way too
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: much testosterone and for the steers that were getting that first.
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: The steers that weren't as like getting the testosterone. The
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: stosterone jacked up ones were chasing all the other ones
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: around and basically killing killing them, riding them so much
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: that they were killing these steers that hadn't gotten in
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: the equal amount of drugs. Wrestlers like just dry humping
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: them to Yeah, like wrestlers, dude, that's yeah. I got
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: some friends of the wrestlers, and man, they still like
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: to wrestle. Yeah, wrestlers like to wrestle. So i didn't
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: wrestle in high school. I'm ready to move on to
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: something else. I wish we had more time to talk
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: about throwing one thing real quick, and you, Ronnie, don't
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: even don't even discuss it. I'm gonna tell us a
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: thing about to date. This will help date Ronnie. When
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: Ronny was a kid, I know where he was a kid.
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: In Chicago public schools. When you took swim class, all
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: the boys would have to stripped out and swim naked
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: at school. That's true. Okay, So he never told you.
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: The coach also did, right, Okay, so we thought that
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: was odd um Oscar and Kate Oscar and Oscar is
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: an up and coming stud and a one time bread
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: female had literally eight pups, so she had a good
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: sized litter. The two dogs whose future is ahead of them,
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: future is ahead of them, financial future, emotional future, everything.
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: Yeahney's look everything's looking at like when there you are
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: you're driving to It was in Indiana in the state park.
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: The state park was not open per se for vehicle traffic,
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: but this particularly well, there was no guard. You didn't
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: in the state park passed to get into. It was
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: off season, was off season. But this part of the
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: state for some reason has an old hotel on the
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: property and they use it like a B and B so,
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: and it happens to be in a state park. But
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: it's not all set up for summer activities. It's set
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: up year round for staying there. You know, people can
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: walk the trails. So there's really nobody there basically, and
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: it's gated or not gated, just a front stone gate.
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: It's not gated anyway. I get there, I check in
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: the motel. There's no dogs allowed. A room. Oh, you're
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: actually staying in the stay in there Indiana, Indiana, And
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: so I get traveling, I'm gonna be working, I'm gonna
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: be working with dogs and doing some interviews. Uh, five
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: miles away the next two days at a training clinic,
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: and so there's nothing out in these woods. I check
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: in the room. I already know that dogs aren't allowed in.
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: And my dogs you know the box they traveling big
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: three dogs, three door box. Uh, I asked, I said,
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: where's the best spot for me to let my dogs
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: air out? Feed him and air out? Air out is
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: their term for make you know, no ship, take the crap.
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: We just made a symbol that I it's from the Goldbergs.
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: She goes, did you make this morning? She has two kids,
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: like mom. So if you're using two fingers, so Rannie's
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: making a cap Rani's making a cup with one hand
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: and taking two fingers and moving them in and out
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: of the cup, which I interpreted to what we were
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: talking about a minute ago. If you're saying, if it's
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: two fingers, it becomes it was. It was a way
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: for like a mom to not ask you in public,
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: if do you have to go to bathroom? Did you make?
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: I would rather my mom, let's leave the gold would
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: rather than someone going like that. Little boy's mom keeps
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: making the universal the universally accepted symbol for for something else.
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: So and she said, yeah, I would just take the
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: trail right around the back of the building, go down
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: to the reservoir and let the dogs do whatever they do.
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: So I get there, a friend of mine joins me
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: without dogs. I've got four dogs and just running them
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: around and well, first to feed him and so my
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: older dog, he rides Shotgun in the back seat. The
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: other dogs each got their own compartment. Okay, back, I say,
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: missed something. You're traveling with four or two? Four dogs?
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: I got four dogs with you own? Did I own? Okay?
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: Because I want to keep in this story, there's a
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: part of still in understands. I want to know how
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: the four dogs had very different outcomes. Yeah, so they're
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: all together. It was really easy to explain in hindsight. Um,
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: so they all feed and they feed in their boxes
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: or you know, so they don't fight over food. Make
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: sure they got a bull of dog food in their
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: in their bounder box, and you make sure they finish
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: eating put food away. My youngest dog, did I still
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: have Miller? He is named after the beer. Yeah, OK, yeah,
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: I didn't. I actually got the dog back from a
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: lady who named it after the beer because she knew
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: I drank Miller light. But um, so I got this dog.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: He is at the point where he doesn't know his name,
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: like to call him off of something or if he
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: starts running, he would literally ignore me. His obedience training
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: wasn't there, and that no too young, and he wasn't
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: worked with when this person had the dog, and that
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: was one of the reasons he was going as an
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: example dog. About training a dog with that age with
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: almost no obedience, you know, just a little crazy dog.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: You were bringing him to show him as a bad
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: example of a dog exactly exactly. We do that and
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: dog things. You want to show the good performance, You
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: want to show the bad and the things in between,
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: and then people can relate to it like, yeah, my dog,
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: my dog will stay that long. Yeah that's great, the
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: world's greatest dog. Learn nothing. So then I had my
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: senior dog, Bravo, who knows all of his commands. So
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: every time he was out, I just let him outside
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: the truck and I said, provoms, come back. Miller wanted
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: to run with the other two dogs to three year olds,
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: but I didn't want him to, so I kept him
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: on a thirty foot check cord wrapped around my waist.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: You could run around, I could drink a beer, and
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: I'm talking with my buddy Gary. We're having a good time.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: Four dogs on one super obedient and two are up
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: and commerce who take off And I can see him
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: the entire time, like they run down to the reservoir,
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: that run deck up a hill. They're not out chasing
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: deer or anything. There within a hundred yards of me
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: at all times. I could because I can see them.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: There's no leaves on the trees. The topography was such
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: that I'm looking down at the reservoir. There was an
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: old abandoned camp building there that they used for storage.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: To my knowledge, the doors were all locked and everything
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: and so, and I did see the dogs go down
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: to reservoir and get a drink. They came back wet,
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: so I knew that's what they did. Um, so fast forward,
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: get the dogs back. You give them each water again
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: to help the write digest their food their meal overnight,
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: and you put them in their boxes. And so that
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: was about nine ten o'clock at night. Nine thirty at night,
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: I closed the tailgate, went to the parking area, sat
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: and talked with Gary for a little bit. You could
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: hear the dogs rustling around in your boxes. Um, so
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: everything seemed normal, like every time I've ever had the
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: dogs out. And it's six or five thirty in the morning.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: We got up, I went to go air the dogs out,
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: and I opened the tailgate and I can hear Miller
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: on the right scratching to get out. So you're immediately
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: you've and you never go to your box like, oh boy,
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: I hope it's you know, it's if you no more
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: you walk in this room and don't expect to see
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: one good bed and towels. You know, it's that same assumption.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: So he's scratching to get out because he's that little
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: crazy guy that doesn't have any obedience. The other ones
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: have been in boxes so long, they just wait, they
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: don't scratch at the door. They're going to get out
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: at the same time. And I opened the middle door
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: and I see Katie her head pressed up against the wall,
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: and immediately know she's dead. I mean, there's just I mean,
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: you could just say her I was half open, you know,
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: or you know you well, you know, like even when
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: an animal dies, it never looks like it does when
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: it's betted. When it's this kind of smashed it. And
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: I was like, I was like, oh my god. And
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: I touched her and she was already like rock hard
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: with rigging mortis, and I'm like, oh sh and I
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: can hear him scratching. I opened the other door and
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: there's Oscar, same way. He's just curled up, just dead.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: And I reached in and and I mean, Rigor. I
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: don't know how long you guys talked about that. How
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: long does Rigor take a couple of hours through two
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: or three hours to get really up, to set up
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: really hard. So when I told my vet all this,
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: she said that they probably died somewhere around one or
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: two in the morning. They would not be that Rigor
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: Morris would not be so hard that I could not
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: bend their legs back out too. It would have been
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: a feudal attempt to see what happened to him. But
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: they were that stiff, you know. So then the whole
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: thing went to where I had to bring him. I
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: actually put bags of ice on one of them in
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: case it got warm on the way home. And I
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: was told to do that just because you know things,
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: you know, like in the animal they get hot from dying.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: And you want to keep them, you want to keep
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: you initially getting are you initially like emotional? Or they
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: kind of shot it at me an hour to even
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: close the tailgate. Me and Gary sit there and cried
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: and kept saying, w TF, WTF, WTF, thinking someone killed them,
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: Thinking someone pop something into each one of their holes.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: You know, they could have reached in and going through
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: the sliding window just and then I kept thinking they suffocated.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: They suffer, kid, they can't suffocate. They sleep in these
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: things all the time. I can't suffocate it. They're like
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: they're full of holes and right exactly, but my brains
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: as they suffocated. Yeah, they're two sliding windows happened to
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: be closed and Miller's was slit open. So then I'm
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: like they suffocated. They anyway, so call me that they
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: did a autopsy on one of them. There's no point
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: to do both. They obviously got into something. And um
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: and I gave you that text earlier. It's they found
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: three chemical compounds that ex that suggest exposure to alcohol.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: Whatever that alcohol would be wasn't Miller Lite. I know
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: that for a fact, because they drink that. You know,
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: when I drop a candy, I'll lick it all up.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: It was not anti freeze, because it takes days for
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: a dog to die from anti freeze. They don't die
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: like that. So it was something that got to their
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: liver and they bled out internally. And it's never been
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: determined what that substance was. I don't know if it's
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: something that's naturally occurring, fermented, somebody left out a pail
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: of something they cleaned from a campground. Just I'll never know.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: And don't you look around. No. I wish I would have,
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: because the whole thing was like I had to get
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: to this clinic, tell them what happened, tell him goodbye.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: I gotta get back to Michigan. And I was so
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: like out of in shock. I just never could. The
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: ground has been baiting for rodents. The state called me
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: several times, the state biologist, state veterinarian, Michigan state veterinarians
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: talked to them. I asked that there's a there's a
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: product people used for killing raccoons and possums that would
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: kill a dog that fast. Very few, but those things
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: are always almost identifiable in their stomach contents. So yeah,
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: we won't know, but word to everybody, you never know
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: don't let your kids play and junk card. But you
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: don't you don't feel that, like based on what you've
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: seen dogs do, you don't feel that they would drink
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: um bourbon? No? No, I've seen dogs around people drinking
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: brown water. Never seen a dog lap it up. Although
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: I have had friends say, oh yeah, my dog will
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: lick my my glass of bourbon with you know, but
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: not cue over dead from it. No, no, no, you
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: you I would. You'd have to drink a lot, I
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: would think. And the vet or the lab interpreted for
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: you that this is an alcohol, And when you look
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: it up, it's just everywhere it's like kind of alcoholics
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: found and everything. Those three things that were identified in
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: the liver biopsy or whatever it was. Uh, all it
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: says is suggests exposure to alcohol. You know, there's isopropyl
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: alcohol is Jack Daniels. There's and freeze in anything that
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: doesn't freeze an alcohol, So couldn't have been an old
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: can of windshield wiper fluid split out? True that anything
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: that doesn't freeze in alcohol. Okay, that's not accurate. Is
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: it in alcohol freezes? It's some temperature. Yeah. Also there
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: we used to have Boone's firm. We take boone farm
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: ice fishing, and the boons would freeze except the syrup
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: and rise up to the top. The booze and the
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: sugar would rise the top, and then you could have
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: like a like a slushy ice fish. And so yeah,
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: that's the that's that's how what happened. You never went
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: back to go look around. No, no, it's it was
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: a six hour drive, and it was like, I'm not
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: going to change the outcome of the day, and You're
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: not gonna run your dogs there again. I'm not gonna
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: run my dogs there again. And if you know, in
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: the conspiracy world, if the state was using some bait
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: to take care of mice and squirrels, and I don't
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: think they were gonna leave it lay around because they
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: already knew what happened, that's a conspiracy part of me.
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: You know, I don't take my walk round would have
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: produced anything. On the other hand, it could have produced
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: an old cook pot that had eggcorns fermenting in it.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: I don't you know, I don't know. Fruit yeah, turned
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: into fruit apples, bushel apples in a steel bucket. Who knows.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: It could have been something like that. But there wasn't
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: anything like and this is a common uh. They said
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: it was common in a whole bunch of different things,
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: but not in particular in some kind of bait or
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: it was anything identifiable on the market. The interesting part
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: is that the two dogs that stayed close lived and
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: the two dogs that ran around kind of creepy almost
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: a little bit makes you want to makes you want
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: to just well, I think that's why. You know. It's
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: like Houndsman, they're kind of used to losing their dogs.
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: It's like that's you. You buy into that, but your
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: bird hunter and your pet owner you don't buy into that.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: You barely buy into the fact that you're gonna outlive
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: your dog. People can't even handle that. Houndsman is like
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: they might they might cry when the dog dies, but
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: they go into it, I mean losing them to bears
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: and pigs and lions cliffs. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah,
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: that's that's what happened. That's all we know on that.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: And do you ensure your dogs? No? I never have.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: I'm sure that's something that's available, probably could. So how
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: much of a setback was it, how much like like
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: as a breeder, how much of a setback was it. Well,
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: I need like hunting wise and breeding wise, honey wise,
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: I I'd be a little low on dog power and
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: breeding wise. I had another female that was a year
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: old last year, so she could have been the next one.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: Um and she just died of kidney failure right before Christmas,
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: so a year and five months old or something like that.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: Ten what ten sen dog years? Ten years old? Old?
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: True tragedy. So yeah, so I'm set way back. I
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: won't have a although I did drive all the way
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: to way across Georgia to pick up a puppy that
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: was seven months old, so you actually now have to
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: go buy dogs. You can't make them out of boys,
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: and already is too old to breed. She'd still be willing.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: But I would like dancing Duke Kennels is like out
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: of business. It's it's it's just dancing dude, man. No ship. Yeah,
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: I mean I've kind of like known this, but I
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: like to the whole thing. Yeah, we don't. We don't
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: get time to but ron when we're on hunting. Those
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: dogs are hundreds of yards away from us at times, right, yeah, whatever,
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: that that's the one thing I would love to know
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: what that dog got into I would love to be
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: able to write something up and let the rest of
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: the world know, like, boy, don't think you're safe even
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: with this. Yeah, but what is the Like it's one
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: of those things and you're the last guy in the
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: world to um submit to like irrational paranoria, right, parent, Yeah, um,
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: because what's the there's no lesson. Don't let your dogs
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: run around yards away from you. It's just like I
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: asked Johnny last night about you guys in bears right,
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: that would be like you guys never going into the
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: woods again. So there's a lesson learned. But what's the lesson?
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: You know, it's only a lesson on that property. It's
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: not I'm gonna let my dogs go hunt and were
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: But when we're coming to when we're corner hopping, you
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: know you got you got. You have a farmer that
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: will have a rock pile on his corner because he's
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: getting everything out of his field old tractor and you
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: know who knows what You start coming across corner up
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: and can get your troumple out. Have you have you
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: lost the dog your rattlesnake yet? No? In fact, I
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: don't know anybody has. But I know I've heard of
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: people who have. Yeah, I guess it's got to hit
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: him in the hit all the time. I guess he's
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: got to hit him in the throw in her mouth.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: I don't think it in a sebaceous tissue or something.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: I don't think it does much to him. A porcupine attack.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: One time, when one around these dogs, the dog attacked
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: the porcupine. Yeah, man, it was gnarly. Yeah, you put
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: that picture in your book. It was amazing that dog
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: had porcupine quills from its nostrils to its testicles. Yeah,
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: he just full full, continue to hunt. Well, you know what,
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: we'll put these pictures. We'll put the pictures of your
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: dog up on the show, the porcupine on the show,
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: Zeno Zeno, and hoping Zino Zino got the brunt of it.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I mentioned this before, I think
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: I have. But we were out hunting one time and Pooter,
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: I think it was I came here. It was me
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: or Poot, but one of us filled a dough tag
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: and the deer had obviously run into had run over
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: a porcupine. Really well, that's the one way I can
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: explain it, because their whole underside was full of quills. Wow.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: So in my mind, she's hauling asked through the woods
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: trip and there's a porcupine. He's like puts his tail up, right,
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: I mean yeah, I mean how else would you can
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: like fight it? Not? Just wasn't like attacking so man
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: her it was so infected. Just it was just full
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: of infections and post and stuff up and down her belly.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: We're hunting sheep one time, hunting doll sheep, my brother's
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: old girlfriend. And it was like I was kind of
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: I think he was walking point and she was right
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: behind him or however, I can't remember how we were
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: configured going up through these alders. And all of a
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: sudden she comes rolling down the hills screaming bloody murder.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: And she had walked under a porcupine and he had
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: smacked her right where her shoulder met her neck. Yeah,
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: put maybe thirteen I think it was thirteen quills or something,
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: right where her shoulder met her neck. You know when
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: you said it, when you said attack, I didn't. But
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: you're right. They will use their tail in defense. I
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: forgot about what they don't do, which cartoons will lead
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: you to believe, is that they can launch quills like
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: an English army of arrows. Yeah, but it's like it's smart,
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: that kind of myth. It's like, I guess, with kids
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: and stuff, it's smart to allow them to believe that
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: that's true. Not a bad thing, because all stoves are hot. Yeah,
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: but I don't think that most people are never corrected
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: about the porcupine. I would tell them when they were
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: twelve or so, I would say, you know, to be
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: honest with you, I think, can't shoot it. It's a
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: rite of it's a rite of passage. You gotta set
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: them down, say ay, just so you know, you know,
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: and that porcupine does not launch quills. This means number two.
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: This means number two. This means and porcupines cannot shoot quills. Man,
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: where do we go from there? The pressing story, screwing
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: the saga of Oscar. We're still waiting to still hoping
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: to find out, but obviously we won't. Maybe somebody else
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: will hear this, And I'm surprised you're not more obsessed
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: with like learning the truth. I don't know what else
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: I can do, you know. I mean, I think the
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: tissue samples are probably destroyed. I don't think they save
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: him you know, I mean forensically, maybe some Einstein guy,
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: maybe one of your listeners. Here's the thing. On the
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: show notes, any idea, we will put the yeah, because
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: we you know, we actually just got a really mean
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: letter from a vet. Who Um, he's real mad. He
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: feels like um and then dark, Uh, he's really I
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: think that a lot of people were like, he's he
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: works in the egg industry, and he was real pissed
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: about some stuff Rogan was saying about big egg. I
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: don't have a problem big egg, nor ever said I
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: had a problem big egg whatsoever. Um, But he feels
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: that guys that like to hunt are somehow down on
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: big egg. Like it's a like a big egg guy
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: apparently gets mad if people start extolling the virtues of
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: other types of meat. So he was mad about that.
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: But that guy, he's a vet. So what you could
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: do is on the show notes, will put up a
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: picture of your dog with its mouthful of quills. We'll
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: put up a picture of these dogs when they're happy
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: in in the old days. We'll put a picture of
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: cute uh broco Italiano puppies, and then we'll put up
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: the toxicology report. There you go, and we will allow
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: people to interpret the results what I'm getting at. It
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: might come up. We might not get any event, but
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: they have a very similar thing could have happened to
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: Joe blow and in Colorado, and they might have got
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: to the bottom of it, and that all might make
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: more sense. See the other thing I forgot to say.
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: The one thing that will kill a dog like that
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: is called blue algae, and that occurs a lot. You
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: know what, that'll kill elk too. It'll so uh if
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: a dog drinks you literally, if he drinks enough and
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: gets the blue algae, you don't have enough time to
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: even get him to the vet. He's dead. Yeah, Like
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: when it when it wipes out herds, the animals, they'll
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: all be laying around the water hole. Yeah, they're not
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: even just make that right, But that wouldn't come up
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: as alcohol poisoning exactly exactly. But the mystery thickens. You
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: have cowses die for no reason, Doug, uh boy, it's
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: been along I mean, why did that cow die? You
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: know a better questions like we found uh, you know,
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: we found a cow dead in the pasture one time,
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: and you never like look into It's not worth the
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: money to look into it. Yeah, I mean you haven't
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: and I haven't had one die for you know, usually
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: if they're looking bad, you get rid of them. I mean,
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: you know, so it's not I mean you check them
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: out and then decide, you know what, what what you're
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: gonna do with you? Do you have a cry when
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: they die? I'm pretty kind of my animals. You know,
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: you cry when they die because because you don't cry
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: when you're sending them off to slaughter. No, but I'm no,
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: I don't cry when they die. But when I'm putting
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: the animal on the I mean, it's it's something that
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: happens as you get older. I guess I put even
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: steers and I'm butchering on the Reaganesque tendency to crying. Well, no,
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: I'm not crying, but I'm I'm I have a different
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: attitude about it. I put him on the trap. Some empathy, empathy,
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: and I know what I'm you know, I know what
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: I'm doing, what's happening there. I mean, it doesn't mean
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: I don't like, do you know you're on the doorstep
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: of death yourself? But you don't come in the house. Dog,
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: You don't even think about that. I honestly don't know
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: what you got. You guys a have like a weird conversation.
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: I don't understand what you're saying right now, like, oh,
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: you know, and then like you know what, well, I
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: asked you flat out a question. No, I don't try
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: when the cattle die? Do you cry when you send
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: him off to slaughter? I don't cry when I send
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: him off to slaughter. But I am I have a
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: different feeling about it than I did when I was younger. Okay, please,
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: if you don't mind, explain what that feeling is. And
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: what I was referring to was when Ron was saying
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: that earlier, when he was in his twenties and thirties,
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: he didn't have the same emotions about the dogs. And
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: of course you get more attached to a dog than
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: you do a cow or a steer or whatever. But
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time with him, and it's
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: part of why my animals are so calm and everything.
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: And and I mean, I put them on the trailer
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: and I thank them, I know where they're going, and
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, it's just you know, it's a
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: somber thing for me. It's part of one I want
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: him just to be cool and you know, say hey, thanks,
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: looking forward to that steak. It's like, hey, thanks, you
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: got well yeah, I mean so so so I'm not
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: talking about that. Okay, no, no, I'm fine. I like
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: the thing about it is you're saying that you have
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: felt that you had that you were either you used
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: to be more callous or you're just more sort of emotional,
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: emotionally aware of the cycles of life and death. Now, yes,
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: because I'm nearer to death myself, as you said that.
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: That's why, that's why, That's where I'm going with this,
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: is you feel it's that you feel that you're like,
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: you know, you recently lost your father. I think that, um,
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: one of the things that I've thought about and recently
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: had a birthday. I recently had a birthday and you know,
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: fifty nine years old, and you know, you have a
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: lot more. Yeah, well I have a lot more. When
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: I say, boy, thirty years ago when I was you know,
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: twenty nine, well thirty years from now, you know, yeah,
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: have eighty nine. Well, then I think about my mom
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: and she's still you know, cruising along, but she cried
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: when the Coles ago. My mom has no regard for
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: cattle whatsoever. So we'll get worse, apparently, but she doesn't.
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: She's not involved with the farm. The farm is not her.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: You think you'll get to a point where you can't
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: send cattle off to slaughter? Is it that fast? It's
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: just a really gradual thing that's happening to you. I
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: can't imagine a time when cattle still wouldn't just be
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: cattle to me. I mean that doesn't mean you treat
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: them badly or anything like that. I mean, it's just
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: a it's a process, you know, it's would you send
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: puppies off to slaughter? Yeah? My father, my father tells
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: a story that he like in the old days, he
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: would no joke, he would be sent out to get
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: rid of litters of kittens done that. Yeah, he did
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: not like it. We use made to do it. We
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: picked up a kitten, my wife and daughter and I
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: would picked up a kitten from another farm, and we
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: have a guy said, oh, hey, come by and get
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: a kitten. And I'm like, oh man, because we had
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: there was a cat at the farm that needed another
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: that needed a you know something that my daughter and
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: wife decided that that that the cat at the farm
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: need you to play me. So when I say kitten,
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: I don't mean a little fres I mean, you know,
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: one that's a young cat. So we go up to
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: this guy's place and and uh, I thought I'm just
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: gonna be able to say no when I get there,
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: but oh no, we're taking one of these cats with us,
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: you know. So while we didn't bring anything along, uh
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: to put it in that was sort of my you know,
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: way out and John go the farmer, says, well, I
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: got a gunny sack, so he grabs the cat. I
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: grabbed the gunny sack. He drops the cat in. I
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: closed the top of it, and that cat came up
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: and we named the cat Biter later because it came
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: up and bit me, bit me through the bag and
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: held on. I had blood running down my arm, and
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: I can only think that it would figure the next
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: thing coming in there was a rock and it was
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: gonna get It's like cats. That cat ended up being
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: one of the coolest cats ever though, And I'm not
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: a cat guy at all. I grew up around uh
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: in dairy you know, dairy production areas, and the dairy
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: farmers would like to have cats because they would need
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: to control mice and rats, so they wanted cats, but
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: then they're always into sort of delicate balance where you
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: needed like enough cats, but then you get too many
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: cats they would get I think that they don't know
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: what the term they would use. The farmers would use
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: as feline distemper and that would like sleep through the
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: cat population and wipe them all out. So the farmers
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: are often in a situation of trying to cool. They
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: would have cats and they're not spaying and neutering these things,
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: and it would get out to what there's a whole
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: bunch and they would want to coll the heard cool
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: the population of cats, and would on occasion, um, have
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: the Ranella boys come over just they would on occasion
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: seek assistance, seek paid help in reducing the cats for
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: fear of a cat of a disease outbreak. And it
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: did an occur to him. I don't know why that
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: uh to Spain Newter, but I think it's just enough
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: stray cats running around, they just find their way. They
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: find their way there. Farm cats. Yeah, I mean, it's
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: it's just a it's it's it's a type of cat.
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, actually the cats we have in the house
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: is a farm cat. I think Mark Kennyon was saying,
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: was he Mark Kenyon saying that all of a sudden
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: he has he has thirteen cats sitting outside of his house.
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: They just because he's had one or something. One showed
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: up and the next thing, you know, that thing made love.
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I don't know I did. No, he's just
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: got cats everywhere, not not are there anything he did? So, Doug,
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: you've just been saying, um, all right, well well Steve,
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: what about what about Veal? With a Oh, I'm dead
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: set against l We don't even have to have that conversation.
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: You're against Veal. I am against Vial. I had we
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: had a neighbor who raised Veal. I dealt with it.
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: It's not a pretty sight. Yeah, and he got any
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: concluding thoughts veal just concluding thoughts in general. And we
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: might have to edit this out or maybe we'll keep
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: it in. But did you read the email that came
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: in about us being wrong about bow hunting? Yeah, but
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: that guy's just overly sensitive. Yeah, a bow hunter being
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: overly sensitive. I'm shocked, Like you didn't want to talk
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: about it. It doesn't warrant. It's like I just think
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: that like now we can talk about it. When we're done,
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: we talk about just like I just don't get like,
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: like we have a thousand bows, like we have thousands
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 1: of bow hunters. That's an exaggeration. We have loads of
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 1: bow hunters on the show. I've no stranger to bow hunt.
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: You bow hunt. I don't get it. What's the what
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: was the that it doesn't even matter? You don't talk
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: about hunting enough. Well, he has a anecdote and anecdote
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: laden rebuttal to the idea that there's a higher wound loss,
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: that that there's higher wound loss with archery than firearms,
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: backed up by the fact of three things that happened
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 1: to me. Well, yeah, do you have any concluding thoughts, Johnny? No? Really?
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: All right, you don't like veal. I'd love to talk
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: about it more about just feel like I've done talking
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: about livestock fair enough. I'm done talking about livestock too. Um.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: It's just nice to be here in South Dakota, that's it. Yeah,
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, We've covered so many different
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: things here that I I mean, there's tons of stuff
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: I talk about, but this I feel bad. I only
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: don't want to talk about it because I don't want
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: to I don't feel like, because you know what, I
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: just I don't feel like with all the just the
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: recreational outrage that will generate of some guy raises Veal
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: and his cows are the nicest cows in the world.
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: So I have a concluding thought. Then, Okay, one of
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: the things I actually thought about before I came I Ny,
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: you know, should I be prepared to talk about anything?
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: I said, if I've ever been prepared to talk to
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: anything when I've been in one of your podcasts? But yeah,
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 1: but it's like that, it's like that Picasso quote, Picasso
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 1: Pablo the whole like sketches the thing out on a napkin, right,
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: and it's worth all this money. And something says that
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: I only took you five minutes. That took a lifetime,
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: all right, So you're just prepared from lifetime years now. Uh.
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: I'm it's nice to take a break from talking about
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: c w D, which I've been doing a lot of.
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: That's your concluding thought, That is my concluding thought. Like
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: I've known Ronny since nineteen sixty four. I remember how
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: old are you? Guys? That year I was four, he
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: was maybe five or six. Naked in the pool. Uh,
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 1: problem were, but not in high school. I've met you, know,
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: I've known about you for years. I remember when he
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: hired you, when when your dad promised him a couple
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: of good work currently guaranteed my labors. But I've I've
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: met a lot of people here at pheasant Fest. So
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: if you line them up one through a hundred, this
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 1: in this whole hunting and sportsman and and it's all
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 1: around you know obviously Pheasants Fest this week number one,
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: Quail and quail. If you're line up these people a hunter,
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: people one and a hundred may not be attached, but
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 1: there's a bridge from one to two all the way
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 1: down where these people are all linked together. And it's
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: you find you're finding that out. Yeah, it's spread so horizontal,
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: it's crazy. It was very cool. Good. That's a deep
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: plug for I don't have. I can't even get nothing
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 1: like that. I would like to encourage all your listeners
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: to never let their dogs get out of sight and
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: to listen to my podcast called the Hunting Dog Podcast,
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: which we started on the same day three years ago.
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: Shameless shameless plug for available on any format where a
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 1: fellow find formats they can find The meat Eater they
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: can find the Hunting Dog podcast. You want to do
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: a deep dive into hunting dogs. That goes beyond us
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 1: losing a couple of right, goes into we've had We've
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 1: had conservations on, We've had trainers on, We've had breeders on,
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 1: We've had pheasants forever on, Rough Growl Society come on, Loggers,
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 1: come on. So I try to cover a lot of topics,
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: but just the same shameless plug with the center of
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: the bulls I being bird dogs. Yes, always a connection
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: to the person is gonna be a logger. He's got
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: to have a bird dog. It's like, you know, we've
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 1: got something to yak about. So I thank you for
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 1: starting your podcast in Texas, and we thank Joe Rogan
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: for starting you on your podcast in Texas because that's
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: how you got started first ever episode and that Ransom Canyon, Texas.
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: And that's as soon as I hum up the headphones,
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: I said, I'm gonna do this about dogs wife for me,
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: So thank you, Stephen Um. I don't have any concluding thoughts.
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 1: I do feel real guilty about cutting you off about
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 1: that veal, Doug. I don't know why you would feel
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: guilty about it. Table that up. Thank you for listening,