Latest / The Observatory | Discovery of Consciousness & Awareness / Wading Through the Muck | Stephen Karafiath & Carrie Cox on Secure Attachment, Co-Regulation, and Conscious Relationship revisited

Transcript

Wading Through the Muck | Stephen Karafiath & Carrie Cox on Secure Attachment, Co-Regulation, and Conscious Relationship revisited · The Observatory | Discovery of Consciousness & Awareness

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Observatory Podcast.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: With your hosts Scott and Loray Wright.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Join us each week as we explore living life from
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: the inside out. Welcome back to the Observatory Podcast. Today,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Ray and I are sitting down in our home with
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: a couple of our good friends, Steve Kara Fiat and
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Carrie Cox. And they're pretty new in a relationship. They've
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: been together about five months and they've been navigating through
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: a bunch of different things. I've been friends with Steve
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: for a while. We've been having some chats and we're
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: going to integrate some of the things we've talked about
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: into their relationship. How their relationship has been unfolding and alchemizing,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: as they like to say. And this is really a
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: good conversation about finding that place where you can feel safe.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: It's really about safety and feeling safe emotionally, physically, spiritually,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: all of the different ways that we find that safety
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: in our relationships. So just sit back, relax, and enjoy
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: this conversation on the Observatory. Welcome back to the Observatory Podcast.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: We are sitting in our living room today with a
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: couple of awesome human beings that have kind of solar
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: systemed their way into our lives. We've had lots of
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: different conversations and shared space in a lot of different ways.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: And we've been talking about doing a podcast for a
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: while and this is say, welcome to Steve car Fiat.
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: Nailed it.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: I've known you for a long time and I have
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: never pronounced your last name until.
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: Just now and here ten out of ten.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, perfect, car Fiat and then Carrie Cox.
• 1:59
  Speaker 4: Welcome, guys, Welcome, Yeah, thanks for having us.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: We're glad to have you here. I was mentioning that
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: before we got started, I'm feeling a little under the
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: weather today, but I'm gonna power through this. And uh,
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: because I'm so excited. It's been you know, we've been
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: talking about doing this for a while and there's no
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: way I was going to say, let's let's cancel this.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: So we're so happy to have.
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: You guys here. Yeah, we're excited too.
• 2:27
  Speaker 5: It feels like every time I'm starting to vibe as
• 2:29
  Speaker 5: high as I can, I come into Scott's orbit. So
• 2:32
  Speaker 5: we're really thrilled to finally be coming on the podcast.
• 2:35
  Speaker 5: Like we talked about, thanks for having us.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you guys were just on another podcast which
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: hasn't even been released yet with our good friends Chad
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: and April on Safe to Love, and we haven't heard
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: that podcast yet, so you know, we may delve into
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: some of the same areas, which you know, it doesn't matter.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: But you know, you two have come into this relationship
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: that you're in fairly recently. How long has it been.
• 3:00
  Speaker 6: It's been about five months five months.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: And prior to that, Steve and I sat together and
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: had lots of chats about different stuff, and you know,
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: I was trying to help you to see some of
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: the things the way I saw them, but in that
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: I also got to see some of the some things
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: the way you saw them. That really opened up a
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: less judgmental and shameful way of me walking on the planet.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: So I want to give you that kudos. I've told
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: you this before, but I truly feel like you've done
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: that for me, and thank you man.
• 3:42
  Speaker 5: It really means a lot to me. You know you
• 3:45
  Speaker 5: have mentioned a bit of that before, but to learn
• 3:48
  Speaker 5: that our interactions had like that positive impact on you,
• 3:52
  Speaker 5: really it warms my heart because from my perspective, it's
• 3:58
  Speaker 5: been just Scotch hiring wisdom. He's learned that I pushed
• 4:03
  Speaker 5: against that from like a more immature standpoint of like, yeah,
• 4:08
  Speaker 5: but maybe you're wrong and maybe like all this like
• 4:11
  Speaker 5: all my shadows are fine. And then eventually like I've
• 4:15
  Speaker 5: had to come back to him with more humility of
• 4:18
  Speaker 5: you know, all that stuff that we like disagreed on,
• 4:20
  Speaker 5: and you said, I predict one day you'll see it
• 4:23
  Speaker 5: my way, which he did say that, and then I'm like,
• 4:26
  Speaker 5: you know what, I'm kind of starting to see it
• 4:28
  Speaker 5: your way. And honestly, I think it's our interactions and
• 4:31
  Speaker 5: like things I learned from you and your positive example
• 4:34
  Speaker 5: that helped bring me back to what I feel like
• 4:38
  Speaker 5: we've accomplished, starting this relationship from secure attachment for what
• 4:45
  Speaker 5: feels like the first time in my life. And you
• 4:50
  Speaker 5: definitely pay a big role in that, and I really
• 4:53
  Speaker 5: appreciate it.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: Thank you nice. I'm feeling better already.
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: I know, a little a little boost to the you.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: Know well, I you know, as as we had conversations
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: over time when when we first came together and when
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: we first met, You're right, you know, those they were
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: you were pushing back on a lot of things, and
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: I just kind of held my ground and kept saying
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: what I was saying. But in the back of my mind,
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: I was like, how can I be curious about what
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: Steve's saying?
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: And how can.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: I how can I be a little bit more open
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: to what you were saying because you, you know, you
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: didn't grow up in a shamed based religion or a
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: really high demand religion, but you and you had a
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: lot of different ways of seeing things that were outside
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: of my you know, ways I had learned things, and
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: and I really appreciate that there's a lot of men
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: that kind of bring that that energy as well with
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: what we're doing. And every Tuesday, not every Tuesday, every
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: other Tuesday, we have a little we call it tep Tuesday.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: And I don't think you've missed one. I think maybe
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: one or two at the most you've missed. And we've
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: been doing it for oh, I don't know, eight nine
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: months something like that. I think we started in the summer.
• 6:12
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's I can't overstate. I mean, even this one
• 6:16
  Speaker 5: we just had on Tuesday, where there were so many
• 6:19
  Speaker 5: powerful yeah, just and organically, so many men showing up,
• 6:25
  Speaker 5: you know, to a place where they may not have
• 6:27
  Speaker 5: been able to share some real heavy stuff that's in
• 6:31
  Speaker 5: weigh on them because they've been showing up for strength
• 6:34
  Speaker 5: and support for their family or people who need them.
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: And then to.
• 6:37
  Speaker 5: See that vulnerability, to see big, heavy emotions grief and
• 6:42
  Speaker 5: sadness pour out, to be able to hold those with
• 6:45
  Speaker 5: others have it ping on our own, It's so grounding.
• 6:52
  Speaker 5: And you know, I always hope that the energy I
• 6:56
  Speaker 5: walk away from those will last for the two weeks
• 6:58
  Speaker 5: until I get back again, because I feel the same way.
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: Well, I I'm going to pause you here.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: For a minute, yeah, and we can go down rabbit holes.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: Yes quick, and kind of interject because I want to
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: hear more about your relationship. And also when I think
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: of thinking about it, you know, relationships are so interesting
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: as to kind of the reason why they are drawn together,
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: the place that you are in life, and suddenly this
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: relationship comes into your sphere, your orbit, your beingness and
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: what that means. And I, you know, I look at
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: mine and Scott's. I had signed off from dating. I
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: had no intention of any more relationships and so and
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: you said you've been together for five months. I'm like,
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: let's see, when did we move in together? And it
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: was like four months.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: It's about that time frame.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: So when it feels, you know, so synergistic and like
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: there is purpose in coming together beyond what relationship prior
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: had brought. It feels just totally different. So I'm eager
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: to hear from both of your perspectives kind of where
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: you were prior to coming together and how that synergy
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: has felt as you've come together and things have started
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: to blossom or transform individually and collectively your lives.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: They're they're looking.
• 8:30
  Speaker 5: She really wants me to go first. So I let's say,
• 8:32
  Speaker 5: just briefly, I think I had finally gotten to a
• 8:38
  Speaker 5: place where I felt like I had stopped actively looking
• 8:42
  Speaker 5: for a relationship. I wasn't on any apps, I wasn't
• 8:46
  Speaker 5: trying to find something. I had arrived at a place
• 8:51
  Speaker 5: of maybe even over corrected in this manner, as Scott
• 8:55
  Speaker 5: can attest to, just dedicated to my own authenticity, like
• 8:58
  Speaker 5: almost just I'm I'm gonna almost like spew my own
• 9:01
  Speaker 5: internal monologue and like that will keep me authentic. And
• 9:07
  Speaker 5: if somebody's meant for me, they'll be able to hold
• 9:10
  Speaker 5: all of this.
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: And if this is.
• 9:12
  Speaker 5: Pushing people away, then you know what, I'm okay. I'm
• 9:15
  Speaker 5: okay going in alone. And it was from that place
• 9:19
  Speaker 5: I'd taken my kids. Scott was there to Meta Sound,
• 9:24
  Speaker 5: which was an amazing musical event camping the kids.
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: You got to.
• 9:27
  Speaker 5: Play and pond and zipline and all of this, And
• 9:32
  Speaker 5: it was there almost so fortuitously. My my beautiful, loving
• 9:39
  Speaker 5: seven year old daughter had already somehow made friends with Carrie,
• 9:43
  Speaker 5: who was photographing the event, and they were almost stick
• 9:46
  Speaker 5: as thieves before Carrie and I even started dating.
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: And m children right.
• 9:54
  Speaker 5: Yes, and my son was there too and also met Carrie.
• 9:58
  Speaker 5: Loved it, but I think, like you said, lay when
• 10:05
  Speaker 5: it's a good fit and when it flows.
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: It was a totally different experience for me.
• 10:10
  Speaker 5: After Meticund, we went on just our first kind of
• 10:13
  Speaker 5: informal get together, which was a run through the mountains
• 10:19
  Speaker 5: in Mill Creek on Pipeline Trail and it was raining
• 10:21
  Speaker 5: that day. It felt like Alaska, and we were both
• 10:24
  Speaker 5: running and hooting and hollering like animals, and we both
• 10:27
  Speaker 5: wanted to stop at a stream and like show each
• 10:29
  Speaker 5: other like water rituals that we had kind of come
• 10:33
  Speaker 5: up with, and it felt so connecting, like I really
• 10:39
  Speaker 5: knew then that this was somebody who I really wanted
• 10:43
  Speaker 5: to explore, creating a sacred Union partnership with and it
• 10:48
  Speaker 5: was only the second time we came together. Carrie can
• 10:53
  Speaker 5: talk to how much to surprise her, But you know,
• 10:56
  Speaker 5: before we'd even been intimate, I was clear on like,
• 11:03
  Speaker 5: I'm gonna claim you as my woman and we're gonna
• 11:08
  Speaker 5: we're gonna do this thing together. And she, whether she's
• 11:15
  Speaker 5: insane or just sees it with intuition, was very receptive
• 11:18
  Speaker 5: to this. And we've been off to the races ever since.
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: That's awesome. Yeah, that's good.
• 11:25
  Speaker 7: Yeah, it was very surprising for me to I mean,
• 11:29
  Speaker 7: Steven's been He's the most commitment obsessed man I've ever
• 11:35
  Speaker 7: been with. And it's like, and I've never you know,
• 11:38
  Speaker 7: one of the main things I said prior to getting
• 11:40
  Speaker 7: into this relationship after getting out of my last one,
• 11:43
  Speaker 7: is I really said, there is no try, there's only
• 11:45
  Speaker 7: due Like I have tried in relationships before, I've tried,
• 11:49
  Speaker 7: I've stuck with it. We've gone to therapy, I've tried,
• 11:52
  Speaker 7: I've tried, I've tried, and I was just like, I'm
• 11:55
  Speaker 7: not doing that anymore. Like it's just only going to
• 11:58
  Speaker 7: be due energy, like it is where it isn't and
• 12:00
  Speaker 7: I'm gonna know it right away.
• 12:02
  Speaker 6: Like if the juice is there.
• 12:03
  Speaker 7: If my body, if my whole body is a yes,
• 12:06
  Speaker 7: because my brain can trick me and be like, well,
• 12:08
  Speaker 7: on paper, like this is really good on paper, My
• 12:11
  Speaker 7: family loves him, all this on paper, it's all got
• 12:15
  Speaker 7: it going on. But for me, I always trust in
• 12:19
  Speaker 7: my body and the truth of what my body exudes.
• 12:23
  Speaker 7: And it just from the moment we've met, I mean
• 12:27
  Speaker 7: one of we are at Meta Sound, Steve was like, oh,
• 12:31
  Speaker 7: come over and zipline and I saw him just like.
• 12:36
  Speaker 6: He didn't zipline.
• 12:37
  Speaker 7: He was filming everyone bringing the cheer and the joy
• 12:40
  Speaker 7: and then like wading through the muck to like retrieve
• 12:42
  Speaker 7: everyone the zipline for everyone so they don't have to
• 12:45
  Speaker 7: wide through the muck. And I just saw his like
• 12:47
  Speaker 7: joyfulness like wading through the muck. And I love to
• 12:50
  Speaker 7: wade through the muck because I know that's where the
• 12:51
  Speaker 7: alchemy occurs. And I just that's you know, if you
• 12:55
  Speaker 7: wanna really love and experience joy in this life, you
• 13:00
  Speaker 7: you know, you can't be afraid to get dirty. And
• 13:03
  Speaker 7: I really love that about him, And so that was
• 13:05
  Speaker 7: one of the first things that I noticed.
• 13:08
  Speaker 6: I also noticed at.
• 13:09
  Speaker 7: Meticune that a lot of my pictures were of him
• 13:12
  Speaker 7: or his daughter. Just you know, there was a lot
• 13:15
  Speaker 7: of attention already that was being My gaze was already
• 13:19
  Speaker 7: set there. And but yeah, that was probably the biggest
• 13:26
  Speaker 7: thing for me going into this was just the recognition
• 13:30
  Speaker 7: right out of the gates that I'm like, oh, this
• 13:32
  Speaker 7: is this is what it is like, Like I'd always
• 13:36
  Speaker 7: in my life, like I've never been married, I've been
• 13:38
  Speaker 7: engaged multiple times. I'm thirty eight now, and so I've
• 13:42
  Speaker 7: asked all my life.
• 13:43
  Speaker 6: I've asked people.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: I'm like, well, how do you know?
• 13:45
  Speaker 6: It was like when you know, you know what, I'm like, yeah,
• 13:47
  Speaker 6: but how do you know.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: How?
• 13:53
  Speaker 6: Yeah? And then I'm like, oh, okay, you just know.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: God, there isn't really a form right, Yeah, there's not
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: a formula. That's just you know, all all of the boxes.
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: Have been checked.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because you know, after the relationship starts, some of
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: those boxes you thought were checked you have to explore
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: more and it's like, well, I thought this box was checked,
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: but it really wasn't checked, right, Yeah.
• 14:16
  Speaker 7: And I think for me it's just something almost on
• 14:19
  Speaker 7: the quantum level. It's like my body, the like the
• 14:26
  Speaker 7: expansiveness that I feel inside of myself the way just
• 14:31
  Speaker 7: the way it's felt, the way it's always felt, just
• 14:34
  Speaker 7: the energy that's here that it's like I've always felt
• 14:37
  Speaker 7: in relationships like I have to like contain myself and
• 14:41
  Speaker 7: like also this person, Like I'm a pretty dynamic person
• 14:44
  Speaker 7: and I have a lot of facets, and I feel
• 14:47
  Speaker 7: like I've been in relationships with people who can see
• 14:50
  Speaker 7: like maybe four or five parts of me, but there's
• 14:52
  Speaker 7: like dozens of dynamic aspects to me, and so I
• 14:56
  Speaker 7: always feel like I have to like cut off one
• 14:59
  Speaker 7: arm a little bit and like hunch a little bit
• 15:01
  Speaker 7: and like not really have other parts of.
• 15:04
  Speaker 6: Me be seen.
• 15:05
  Speaker 7: And I just feel too expansive oftentimes, and in this
• 15:10
  Speaker 7: relationship to just feel like it's just the feeling like
• 15:15
  Speaker 7: I can fully expand into it is incredible.
• 15:18
  Speaker 6: And I think Stephen and I.
• 15:20
  Speaker 7: Both are really diligently obsessed with living the most authentic,
• 15:27
  Speaker 7: honest life, like and we are like studious too and
• 15:34
  Speaker 7: do the homework of what the universe gives us. Like
• 15:36
  Speaker 7: we are both so committed to that internal alchemy and
• 15:40
  Speaker 7: that experience of really knowing like our authentic expression, and
• 15:44
  Speaker 7: so that really effortlessly brought us together and has created
• 15:51
  Speaker 7: a foundation that's just been wonderful.
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: M that's good, very good.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: It's interesting because as you're talking, I think, oh, you know,
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: there's those initial checklists or whatever, and then you get
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: past that, and for me, it was like, oh, wow,
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: I've never made it past. I've never made it this far,
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: so it becomes unknown. And even in some of the things,
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: I'm like, Okay, there I am again showing up the
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: way I have in the past. But what did that mean?
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: Did that mean I shouldn't do that? Or did that
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: mean I didn't see what came next? And I'm still
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: I still often think about that, but it definitely is
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: seeing what comes next that is so powerful and going wow.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: Without this person, I couldn't have seen what comes next,
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: and not only for us collectively, but for myself. And
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: I think that's where the mirror aspect of life is
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: just so powerful. And you know, we both mirror for
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: each other incompleted parts, parts that need attention and you know,
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: parts that had carried sorrow for different reasons. Even though
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: our experiences were different, the work was similar. And so
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: it's been really fascinating to embark on that work and
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: find that, Wow, marriage is about doing the work, and
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: I always set marriage up like this place to arrive
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: at where then the rest of life started. And I'm like,
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: that really isn't true. You can do that, but you
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: just kind of sit on a shelf when you embark
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: on the inner journey of yourself. I think that's where
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: a union is so completely different than people who are
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: married for, you know, fifty years.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: And I think you have to have like this intimate
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: mirror however that shows up in your life. Each one
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: of us have to have someone that we can fully embrace,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: fully trust, know that there's not any guile or ire,
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: that they're not looking to hurt you or weaponize your
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: vulnerabilities or anything like that. But they're really genuinely working
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: on themselves and at the same time helping you by
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: mirroring for you. That's what we've tried to do and
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: again work in progress, right, we're continually doing that. But
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: let me ask you guys a question. So, in your
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: five or so months that you've been together, you've I'm
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: sure run into like fences where each of you have
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: had something that you've had to navigate together, mirror together,
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: navigate together, and come out on the other side with
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: like a clearer vision of what you want now because
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: because you're gonna make mistakes, you're gonna we're gonna do
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: things that you are not necessarily in alignment.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: What do you think, Yeah, because the magical part has
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: a shadowside to it, so we know those parts how
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: those showed up for us, and it can be a
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: little alarming. But maybe as you think about that and
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: share what you want, you can also dip into your
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: past just to kind of help us understand the contrast
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: as to how this relationship is different than like you said, Carrie,
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: that what the trying part of the past.
• 19:31
  Speaker 6: Okay, first, so I think.
• 19:37
  Speaker 7: To me, like you mentioned about needing a love like
• 19:42
  Speaker 7: an intimate mirror in life. I really do and have
• 19:47
  Speaker 7: long believed that true love has the ability to really
• 19:53
  Speaker 7: see that really takes the time to see all of
• 19:56
  Speaker 7: you and doesn't make it about themselves, but is you know,
• 19:59
  Speaker 7: there to really help you see yourself and alchemize it.
• 20:02
  Speaker 7: And for me, I think love very much is also
• 20:08
  Speaker 7: someone offering this support and an energy in a variety
• 20:14
  Speaker 7: of ways that helps me alchemize my journey in my life.
• 20:19
  Speaker 7: And so a couple things that have kind of come
• 20:25
  Speaker 7: up with Steven, and I have pricked up my like
• 20:29
  Speaker 7: attachment wounds. I have a tendency being adopted. I have
• 20:37
  Speaker 7: a tendency to really go into like anxious attachment styles.
• 20:42
  Speaker 7: And that's like my my looping. My brain can just
• 20:46
  Speaker 7: kind of chew on its own anxious pebbles and like,
• 20:50
  Speaker 7: you know, just just loop on that and get stuck
• 20:54
  Speaker 7: on that. And you know that obviously all existed long
• 20:58
  Speaker 7: before Steven. Like a my birth mother, one thing she
• 21:01
  Speaker 7: always says, I love to think about is like whatever's
• 21:05
  Speaker 7: in the cup is in the cup with each person,
• 21:07
  Speaker 7: you know. So if you're in a relationship where someone's
• 21:09
  Speaker 7: getting angry all the time and you're like, oh, I'm
• 21:11
  Speaker 7: so bad, I'm making them get angry, and it's like, no,
• 21:13
  Speaker 7: that's just what's in their cup.
• 21:15
  Speaker 6: They just get angry.
• 21:17
  Speaker 7: Yeah, And like, what's one of the things in my
• 21:19
  Speaker 7: cup is I get anxious sometimes, like and have like
• 21:23
  Speaker 7: anxious attachment tendencies. So the obviously in a relationship, those
• 21:31
  Speaker 7: attachment wounds will get pricked up and anxieties will come up.
• 21:35
  Speaker 7: And there's been a couple times, one in particular that
• 21:40
  Speaker 7: really caused me to just shut down and kind of
• 21:44
  Speaker 7: shut down like my attraction towards Stephen shut down and
• 21:47
  Speaker 7: just really going internal. And I was in a big
• 21:52
  Speaker 7: upheaval with attachment stuff, dealing with stuff with my adopted parents,
• 21:56
  Speaker 7: and they're flat out rejection of our relationship and Stephen,
• 22:02
  Speaker 7: and which is wild. And so I was really severing
• 22:09
  Speaker 7: that attachment with them in many ways and noticing the
• 22:13
  Speaker 7: pain of it and all this, And I'll just share
• 22:17
  Speaker 7: what happened on New Year's Steven thought it'd be a
• 22:19
  Speaker 7: great idea to take a bit of acid, and we
• 22:22
  Speaker 7: metaphorically metaphorically think of it like him like juggling swords.
• 22:27
  Speaker 7: And then I say, like, how it is like he
• 22:29
  Speaker 7: pierced me with the sword of arrogance, like right in
• 22:31
  Speaker 7: my raw attachment wound, just like saying something that was
• 22:34
  Speaker 7: just like arrogant and unnecessary and just forming a judgment
• 22:38
  Speaker 7: about me. And it just went right to the heart
• 22:42
  Speaker 7: of my attachment wound as I'm like, have it raw,
• 22:44
  Speaker 7: trying to be healed in this relationship and it's just
• 22:48
  Speaker 7: gotten now I'm bleeding out. So it shut me down,
• 22:51
  Speaker 7: and it was a really beautiful journey of just seeing
• 22:54
  Speaker 7: because it's like everyone does stuff like that. We all
• 22:57
  Speaker 7: accidentally pierce our love and cut them right in the
• 23:00
  Speaker 7: place where it's just like going to do the most damage.
• 23:04
  Speaker 7: And you know what's more important than like those things
• 23:07
  Speaker 7: are going to happen. So it's really important to notice
• 23:10
  Speaker 7: in a relationship is how does each person go about repair?
• 23:13
  Speaker 7: Are they leaning into each other? Are they continually like
• 23:19
  Speaker 7: like saying how can I support you? How can I
• 23:21
  Speaker 7: be here for you? Like are both people leaning into
• 23:25
  Speaker 7: each other? Like you know, what's your dynamic that you
• 23:27
  Speaker 7: do with that? And it was amazing. We didn't really
• 23:30
  Speaker 7: know like how we were going to resolve. It had
• 23:32
  Speaker 7: gone on for a few days and I still like
• 23:34
  Speaker 7: just hadn't come back, and I love. We were in
• 23:38
  Speaker 7: the hot tub and I was like, well, I don't
• 23:39
  Speaker 7: know how this is going to resolve. I don't know
• 23:41
  Speaker 7: what the answers are, but I do know how to
• 23:43
  Speaker 7: ask questions. So I just kind of poise this question
• 23:46
  Speaker 7: like for myself, like I'm like, I don't know what
• 23:48
  Speaker 7: the answer is, but here's my question. And somehow, within
• 23:51
  Speaker 7: the span of the next hour, something just shifted in
• 23:54
  Speaker 7: my awareness and in my energy, and like Stephen was
• 23:58
  Speaker 7: preparing and he's like, if we too, like I'll go
• 24:00
  Speaker 7: through the desert for forty days and forty nights, like
• 24:03
  Speaker 7: I'll do it. He's like lacing up his booth and
• 24:05
  Speaker 7: he's getting his backpack on and he's like getting all
• 24:07
  Speaker 7: the provisions and he's like ready. And within an hour
• 24:12
  Speaker 7: something changed within me and he's like, what, you just
• 24:16
  Speaker 7: teleported us up at the mountain. I didn't know he
• 24:18
  Speaker 7: could teleport.
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: Oh, well, that's awesome.
• 24:22
  Speaker 7: But it's like sometimes to me, like I don't know.
• 24:24
  Speaker 7: You put gas in the tank and gas in the
• 24:26
  Speaker 7: tank of attempting to repair, but like it's not it,
• 24:30
  Speaker 7: and then I don't know. Something about giving it up
• 24:33
  Speaker 7: to the mystery and just asking the right question. Sometimes
• 24:37
  Speaker 7: that energy, that intention alone just clears it out and
• 24:40
  Speaker 7: then you're teleported up the mountain.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: I love that.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: I love the fact that it's like what you stop
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: giving attention to just goes away and less is less
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: a necessary component.
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: You know, we're awesome mathematicians. We want to solve the equations,
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: and so when something like this happens, we want to
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: put it in an equation that we can then understand.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: So A plus B equal C and life isn't that way,
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: you know, And it's going into the energy of something
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: like that. You realize when you stop trying to solve
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: the equation, you realize you're creating the equation. It's coming
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: from you, it's coming from history, it's coming from past experience,
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: all of those things, which there's no shame at all
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: in that. But what you guys experienced somehow opened a
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: portal for you to be able to see that in
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: some way. Does that feel like kind of what happened?
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: Am I expressing it differently than it happened?
• 25:43
  Speaker 7: Uh?
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah? For me?
• 25:44
  Speaker 7: I mean I very much as an artist, Like I'm
• 25:48
  Speaker 7: a musician and an artist, and I'm very a very
• 25:54
  Speaker 7: spiritual in terms of like I have spoken with water
• 25:57
  Speaker 7: for years now and done rituals water for years, where
• 26:02
  Speaker 7: this is how I've alchemized so much of the really
• 26:05
  Speaker 7: kind of sad and shameful and hurtful beliefs that I
• 26:09
  Speaker 7: inherited in my childhood, a very traumatic, traumatic experiences. I've
• 26:15
  Speaker 7: learned over the years that I don't have to know
• 26:18
  Speaker 7: how to fix any of it. But like I just
• 26:20
  Speaker 7: for me, I talk to the water, I talk to
• 26:22
  Speaker 7: nature or like whatever the thing is that helps people
• 26:27
  Speaker 7: that like sends a song into somebody like that exact
• 26:30
  Speaker 7: energy to me, is always around us, and it's like
• 26:36
  Speaker 7: a way of living to like just have this humility.
• 26:39
  Speaker 7: That's like, I'm just a feeble little earthling, you know.
• 26:43
  Speaker 7: I'm just like one little human that's got you know,
• 26:46
  Speaker 7: a bunch of bunk programming like everybody else. And I
• 26:51
  Speaker 7: know that there's this energy around that I can ask
• 26:55
  Speaker 7: to help me and move through me and help alchemized things.
• 27:00
  Speaker 7: So to me, that's kind of what that experience was.
• 27:04
  Speaker 7: It was like, I love that. I think it speaks
• 27:07
  Speaker 7: too to the fact that you said, there's all these
• 27:09
  Speaker 7: facets of you, so moving from one that may have
• 27:12
  Speaker 7: felt wounded to one that knows what to do and
• 27:15
  Speaker 7: to have that intuition as to how that shift happens,
• 27:19
  Speaker 7: and just being aware enough of yourself to knowing how
• 27:24
  Speaker 7: you can shift within yourself to see it differently and
• 27:27
  Speaker 7: to experience it differently. That's really cool.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And that resonates with me because I think I
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: have the same thing. But for me, it's fire, you know,
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: the fire, the sun, the energy of all of that
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: is something that really has resonated with me a lot.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: It was it was a catalyst in my changing the
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: direction of my life was the metaphor of seeing the
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: light and then with help from people like Steve, realizing
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: that all the things I was holding in darkness were
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: never dark. They were never dark, and I had there
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: was a lot of shame and judgment that I had
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: around myself, and all that did was take me down
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: the whirlpool of a depth of low self esteem, which
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: then feeds upon itself and just makes things worse and
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: worse and worse. And then I get someone like Gray
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: that walks into my life and she's always lifting me
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: up when because you know, I'm an artist too, so
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: there's times that I get in that place of I'm
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: not being as creative as I think I should be,
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: or I'm not feeling it today, I'm not in flow today,
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: which I really always want to try and feel that.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: But then she's always there to just kind of say,
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: you know, just walk away from it for a minute,
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: it's fine, or supporting in something that I've created or whatever.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: Or early on, you know, where you gut in the
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: early part of the relationship. I think it's also being
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: able to have that safety to ask questions, like you said,
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: I'm just gonna ask this question, because there was a
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: moment in our relationship early on where something happened and
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: I could have definitely gone into my pattern of defending,
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: like defend, and Scott was definitely in his pattern of projecting.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: And I just stopped and looked at him, and I said,
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: who am I right now? Because I could tell the
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: energy wasn't what was between us. It was from somewhere else,
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: and it was from his prior experiences. And when I
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: stopped and just said, who am I right now? I
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: immediately didn't feel like I had to defend anything because
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: it didn't feel like mine. And then Scott looked at
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: me and he just like it was like getting like
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: a shock, and he just goes, who You're right, this
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: is something that I was going somewhere that's not us,
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: and he just stopped. And that kind of happened a
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: couple of times. But then after that we kind of
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: broke those patterns of what we would have done in
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: the past, so that that wasn't a pattern that we
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: brought into the relationship anymore.
• 30:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so we let it go. All right, Steve, let's
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: hear from your side.
• 30:15
  Speaker 5: Well, I was just wanted to kind of reflect how
• 30:18
  Speaker 5: inspiring it has been to witness your guys's journey the
• 30:22
  Speaker 5: ways you've shared it openly. I tell carry all the time.
• 30:28
  Speaker 5: It's like I've searched high and low for like examples
• 30:33
  Speaker 5: of the types of relationships that I would want to emulate,
• 30:36
  Speaker 5: because I only really want to look for and follow
• 30:38
  Speaker 5: those examples. And it's like, ah, it's like finding a
• 30:42
  Speaker 5: needle in a haystack. Yes, you can find like a
• 30:46
  Speaker 5: decent chunk of the population that's been married for some
• 30:50
  Speaker 5: length of time, and that is an accomplishment. I don't
• 30:52
  Speaker 5: want to minimize it. But like the metric I'm really
• 30:55
  Speaker 5: looking for are people that you know, I have made
• 30:59
  Speaker 5: it decades and can really say I'm more in love
• 31:04
  Speaker 5: with this person now than I was even when we met,
• 31:08
  Speaker 5: and mean it. You find a lot of people that
• 31:10
  Speaker 5: say it, but then like when they're showing up to
• 31:12
  Speaker 5: the men's group or whatever, it's just nothing but complaints
• 31:15
  Speaker 5: like unaired resentments. And that's common. And I don't want
• 31:19
  Speaker 5: to trivialize the difficulty of relationshipping.
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: I mean part of the process, right exactly.
• 31:28
  Speaker 5: But like hearing you guys on Safe to Love podcast
• 31:33
  Speaker 5: on your own podcast talking about it, like I do
• 31:35
  Speaker 5: hold it up and especially for me as a beacon
• 31:38
  Speaker 5: of something finding it later on in life with all
• 31:44
  Speaker 5: that Scott went through, you know, with his marriage falling apart,
• 31:50
  Speaker 5: and to then find something that it feels like a
• 31:56
  Speaker 5: similarity to me, But stop me if I'm projecting. It
• 32:00
  Speaker 5: feels like the relationship you've built is has attained heights
• 32:06
  Speaker 5: that would not have been possible in a lot of
• 32:09
  Speaker 5: previous relationships. Like even the best versions of these previous
• 32:12
  Speaker 5: relationships you could have been in would not have reached
• 32:14
  Speaker 5: the heights that you're at. And that's really inspiring to
• 32:17
  Speaker 5: see an example of in real life.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you, no doubt that that that's really the
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: way it is. And the the interesting thing is when
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: you and I first started having conversations and we started
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: kind of delving into relationships, and that one of the
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: places we went in the beginning because Cody was there,
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: I think, and Sun Cold Cold Uh, Cody and Cole
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: were there and we were all kind of chatting about it,
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: and we started talking about polyamory and you know, I'm
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: I'm the one and it's not from a judgmental place,
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: but it's from a place of I remember, here's what
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: I always say to people. I say, okay, you think
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: that might be something to explore, because we were talking
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: about it and people were saying, yeah that it's okay,
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: it's not okay, whatever. And I don't come at it
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: as a place of judgment or shame or sin or
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: wrong or anything like that. I come to from a
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: place of show me one that has worked long term.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: You know, it might be great for a year or two,
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: it might function, you may navigate, but eventually you have
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: to have one mirror. It gets distorted if it's something
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: other than that. And again, I hope that doesn't sound judgmental,
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: but that's one of the conversations that we had in
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: the beginning. And I think, I think I'm not trying
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: to put words in your mouth, but I think that's
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: one of the things that in you kind of shifted
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: where you started looking for that divine as you call it,
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: that divine union, that divine partner that was a monogamous
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: partner where you guys could explore however you wanted to explore,
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: but with each other.
• 34:03
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I think what you're speaking to I think is
• 34:05
  Speaker 5: really powerful in that I think Kerry and I have
• 34:10
  Speaker 5: already experienced this of setting a container around our relationship
• 34:16
  Speaker 5: that's bigger than both of us, and to make sure
• 34:20
  Speaker 5: that everything in both of our fields is aligned with it,
• 34:23
  Speaker 5: and that we are not leaking any energy outside of
• 34:27
  Speaker 5: the container. It all keeps reflecting back in. Has made
• 34:31
  Speaker 5: it so that, like we've been able to obtain depths
• 34:35
  Speaker 5: already and you're continually surprised by how much deeper we
• 34:38
  Speaker 5: can go. And just the knowing that, like if there
• 34:41
  Speaker 5: was a like pressure release valve or like some other
• 34:46
  Speaker 5: way that energy was leaking out of this. Like I
• 34:49
  Speaker 5: just I fundamentally believe, and we've talked about this from
• 34:52
  Speaker 5: the beginning of the relationship, that the way to go
• 34:55
  Speaker 5: the deepest and most intimate is to have everything reflecting
• 35:01
  Speaker 5: back and forth between us like a laser.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: So I love that. Yeah, I love the what you
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: say about not leaking, you know, the energy outside of
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: the relationship. I think that's fantastic.
• 35:12
  Speaker 6: And on that topic, I mean my two relationships. Ago
• 35:16
  Speaker 6: I tried a polyamorous relationship. So I gave it a try.
• 35:18
  Speaker 6: I was like, let's see what this is all about.
• 35:21
  Speaker 6: And it was cool. Like the thing, the main thing.
• 35:24
  Speaker 7: I liked about it was it it really gives you
• 35:27
  Speaker 7: a good long look at your own jealous tendencies.
• 35:31
  Speaker 6: I liked that.
• 35:31
  Speaker 7: I like growing As far as the being able to
• 35:34
  Speaker 7: sleep with whomever, I just realized I was like, wow,
• 35:37
  Speaker 7: is a woman that feels like a desirable woman? Doesn't
• 35:41
  Speaker 7: mean anything to me that people want to sleep with me?
• 35:43
  Speaker 7: I could care less, Like this means nothing, like are
• 35:47
  Speaker 7: you going to take care of me when I'm sick?
• 35:49
  Speaker 7: Are you going to be there for me in ten years?
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: Like?
• 35:51
  Speaker 7: Are you going to be there when I'm a puddle
• 35:53
  Speaker 7: on the floor? Like That's what I'm looking for. Like
• 35:58
  Speaker 7: so that was a pretty quick discovery that, uh, and
• 36:01
  Speaker 7: you know, and like you can only look one person
• 36:02
  Speaker 7: in the eyes at once.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: Right, well, and you know, great, you know, I think
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: kind of of how I was looking originally at relationships.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: In general, everything felt more like a commodity. I used
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: to tell Scott like things felt more like a merger transaction,
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: but it was. It was more like a commodity, like
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: what can you give me? And what can I give you?
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: And then what can I get from you? And what
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: can you get from me? And it was when I stopped,
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: and especially when I met Scott, it suddenly felt like
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: treasured and it was something that was like, you know,
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: like a like an ember. They often talk about fire
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: as being an ember that you carry and it can win,
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: it can it can you know, get small, and it
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: can grow. But there's always like that ember, and that
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: ember is treasured. And that's what Scott felt like to me, was, Oh, Wow,
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: this is something that I'm going to hold and treasure,
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: and in that treasuring it can have moments of learning
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: that can be challenging, and it can have moments of
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: extreme joy those outer limits. But at the core of
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: it will always be this ember that is necessary and
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: is treasured. And I had never really felt that before
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: in any of my relationships. I actually hadn't trusted any
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: relationship to go there before.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: Well, and I had to find that within myself right
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: because I had. I had ignored the ember for so long.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: Let's just use ember. I ignored the ember for so
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: long after my first marriage went south. I've been open
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: about sharing. You know, I partied for ten years, and
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: I like to say I got to realize who I
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: wasn't And so as the ember got dimmer and dimmer
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: and dimmer, and I created more and more or what
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: I got another word, I call this spiritual distance or
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: distance from my I used to say it was distance
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: from God, but I think it's distance from my true self,
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: which is God, and it's an aspect of God. As
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: I had the experience of creating all that distance, I
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: just felt disconnected. And every all of the relationships I
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: had were transactional in a very real way, super transactional.
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: And so when she talks about hers being transactional, they
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: were transactional in a way that you know. It was
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: like she said, a merger. She's in New York City,
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: she's living there and meeting these guys who fly helicopters
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: and to work and you know, all this stuff, and
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: there was no depth. There was no ember they and
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: not that they were bad people, but they just weren't
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: interested in a depth. And I remember when we first
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: started dating. The you used to always say I want
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: someone who's water fron deep.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: She used to say, Oh, I had a brother in
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: law ask me he was so committed to helping me
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: find someone to love, and he said, well, what's your
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: number one criteria? And I said, I just want someone
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: whose waters run deep. It was like, you know, I've
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: done the shallow thing I've done. I just want I
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: want them to be deeper because I felt like I
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: was a pretty deep person and I wanted them to
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: be deeper because I knew that that was where I
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: would have to that's where my experiences would get richer.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: And little did I know the waiting, the deepness.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: So sometimes it can get annoying at it.
• 39:44
  Speaker 7: That all makes me think of I can't remember it exactly,
• 39:46
  Speaker 7: but there's like a Joni Mitchell quote that's like, if
• 39:49
  Speaker 7: you really want to experience life, like find a committed relationship,
• 39:54
  Speaker 7: because you'll go places you never would have imagined you'll go.
• 40:00
  Speaker 7: You'll be so surprised by who you become, Like it's
• 40:02
  Speaker 7: a surprise seeing like who you are in these depths
• 40:07
  Speaker 7: and if you want something where you just you know,
• 40:10
  Speaker 7: when you're dating a.
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: Lot, or.
• 40:13
  Speaker 7: Like it's like you're just always telling your same stories.
• 40:17
  Speaker 7: You're always being dazzling with your song and your dance
• 40:19
  Speaker 7: the same way you've been doing it for years, like
• 40:21
  Speaker 7: on repeat, and yeah, it's a very different experience for
• 40:27
  Speaker 7: sure when you find another person who you're like, wait,
• 40:30
  Speaker 7: you can swim this deep too, and then we can
• 40:33
  Speaker 7: swim so fast we can go back up to the
• 40:34
  Speaker 7: water slides and the splash pads in the next breath,
• 40:37
  Speaker 7: and then we can go right back down to the depths,
• 40:39
  Speaker 7: and you're not afraid to explore in all these coves
• 40:42
  Speaker 7: that might have like dragons and monsters and swamp things
• 40:46
  Speaker 7: from and you want to go there too.
• 40:48
  Speaker 4: Okay, Yeah.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: I think it's also when you let go of that
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: belief that life is a very linear path with these
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: clear adulting milestones, because those adulting miles stones can keep
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: you really distracted from something that could be much deeper.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: So yeah, but let's take let's go back to Steve
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: because he hasn't finished, Okay.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: Him one thing before we go there. It's why I
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: love that your relationship is relatively new. You know, it's
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: five months, but you're you've been exploring these things already.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: And where I would like to us to go if
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: we if we can't, is when Steve's done, let's talk
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: about because you know, lots of people are going to
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: be listening to this and and lots of people today
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: are looking for relationships and looking for that depth. And
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: think about, as Steve's finishing here, what are the what
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: are the secret codes maybe that you've found that have
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: helped you to access that in your relationship being so.
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: New and to access it so much earlier. I mean
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: we were, we were, you know, a good decade behind you.
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: So well.
• 41:58
  Speaker 5: I actually think that ties into exactly what I was saying,
• 42:02
  Speaker 5: which I think that the number one foundational aspect is
• 42:06
  Speaker 5: safety first. And I don't think that's a surprise, but
• 42:10
  Speaker 5: I continue to learn more and more about what that means.
• 42:14
  Speaker 5: And I think this is the first relationship where I
• 42:17
  Speaker 5: have really felt like one hundred percent safe myself as
• 42:21
  Speaker 5: well as always working on the foundation of creating safety
• 42:26
  Speaker 5: so that Carrie feels safe. And if there's even a
• 42:30
  Speaker 5: small crack in that foundation, I think previous versions of
• 42:34
  Speaker 5: myself would have wanted to like gloss over that, or
• 42:36
  Speaker 5: dance around it, or paper over it and just move
• 42:39
  Speaker 5: on to like the funner.
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: Stuff, ignore it.
• 42:41
  Speaker 5: Yeah, And I think what I've learned is no, like
• 42:45
  Speaker 5: safety first, if there's a crack in the foundation, we'll
• 42:48
  Speaker 5: do what we need to do to shore up that crack,
• 42:50
  Speaker 5: and then we can build everything on top of that.
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: So talk a little bit more about what you mean
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: by safety, because this isn't about like a roof over
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: your head.
• 42:58
  Speaker 5: Yeah, great question, because there are so many different types
• 43:01
  Speaker 5: like emotional safety, psychological safety, physical safety. For me, I've
• 43:06
  Speaker 5: always felt physically safe. I feel like, honestly, my biggest
• 43:11
  Speaker 5: place of privilege is that my entire life, I have
• 43:14
  Speaker 5: felt bodily autonomy. I've never had that violated. I've always
• 43:18
  Speaker 5: felt physically safe and in control and provided for. I'm
• 43:23
  Speaker 5: trying to pass that along to my children. So for me,
• 43:27
  Speaker 5: when I talk about safety, what it really means is
• 43:30
  Speaker 5: emotional safety to fully express all of myself, to not
• 43:35
  Speaker 5: feel like I need to hide any part of myself
• 43:39
  Speaker 5: from expressing. And Carrie has really seen that sometimes of me,
• 43:44
  Speaker 5: just you know, really sharing something that's deep or vulnerable
• 43:50
  Speaker 5: that I may have just not felt like I could
• 43:54
  Speaker 5: have brought up in previous relationships, and we're dumping it
• 43:57
  Speaker 5: all on the table like one hundred percent authenticity. I
• 44:00
  Speaker 5: feel like there is nothing about me that I'm aware
• 44:06
  Speaker 5: of that I am not comfortable trying to share with Kerrie.
• 44:11
  Speaker 5: And that is the litmus test that I continue to
• 44:15
  Speaker 5: measure by. And like, from that foundation of safety, I
• 44:21
  Speaker 5: think everything else can be stable and sustainable. And without that,
• 44:28
  Speaker 5: like almost nothing else matters. It won't be sustainable in
• 44:32
  Speaker 5: the long run.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting that you bring that up, because I've
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: been doing this compassionate inquiry with Gabor Matte, and he
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: talks about the number one thing that people have to
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: feel in order for them even to experience their own
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: hidden emotions that they have stored away for years is
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: a sense of safety that it either won't be judged
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: or re traumatized or you know, there's all these different
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: aspects that I had never really had an appreciation of
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: what that kind of safety meant and how unsafe people
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: can feel. And so that's why I wanted you to
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: go there, because I think that's we all carry parts
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: of ourselves that feel unsafe, whether we're aware of it
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: or not.
• 45:18
  Speaker 7: And that really is like the way that Steven loves
• 45:21
  Speaker 7: like and I think you've experienced this too, Scott like
• 45:25
  Speaker 7: his language of love. His brand of love is very strong.
• 45:29
  Speaker 7: And if there's anywhere where I cringe within myself about
• 45:34
  Speaker 7: my past or my failures or my shame or my experiences,
• 45:38
  Speaker 7: Stephen is so like.
• 45:39
  Speaker 6: Let me in so I can love on it.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: Like that is so his way of loving. I'm here
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: with my flashlight, let's go in.
• 45:46
  Speaker 6: Yeah it let me in there.
• 45:49
  Speaker 7: Like ten years ago, I had these gems and this
• 45:52
  Speaker 7: reality show featured me, and I didn't realize it was
• 45:55
  Speaker 7: going to break me and that they're all about exploiting
• 45:58
  Speaker 7: people and all this stuff. So I for about ten
• 46:01
  Speaker 7: years have carried this wound of this reality show and
• 46:04
  Speaker 7: a feeling humiliated and all this stuff. And when I
• 46:07
  Speaker 7: left for Guatemala, I get a long voice message on
• 46:10
  Speaker 7: the airplane. He's like, Hey, I've watched your show twice
• 46:13
  Speaker 7: and I just want to love on all these things.
• 46:15
  Speaker 6: I see all these parts of you.
• 46:17
  Speaker 7: This is what I want to love on. I want
• 46:18
  Speaker 7: to love on this version of you, want to live
• 46:20
  Speaker 7: on that version of you. And so we really have
• 46:23
  Speaker 7: a culture in our relationship because he so wants to
• 46:25
  Speaker 7: give that to everyone else. So I also I'm always
• 46:29
  Speaker 7: asking him like where where are you? Do you love
• 46:33
  Speaker 7: all the parts of yourself? Like where can I love
• 46:35
  Speaker 7: on you? What part of you?
• 46:37
  Speaker 4: You know?
• 46:37
  Speaker 7: When he shares all sorts of details of his past
• 46:41
  Speaker 7: and divorce and breakups and just anything that you could
• 46:44
  Speaker 7: think of, that's the stuff that causes the pain and
• 46:48
  Speaker 7: the wounds, always asking like what version of you do
• 46:51
  Speaker 7: we need to love on?
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: Here?
• 46:53
  Speaker 7: Like how do they want to receive love? So we
• 46:55
  Speaker 7: really have a very strong culture that we go into
• 46:59
  Speaker 7: this like that's how we met. We both were we saw,
• 47:02
  Speaker 7: we both waded through the muck with joy, and we
• 47:05
  Speaker 7: just so have a culture of like waiting being like, Okay,
• 47:08
  Speaker 7: take me to your swamp and I'm just gonna love
• 47:12
  Speaker 7: on you here, and I'm just going to be this
• 47:13
  Speaker 7: observer that's just like, look how cute you are and
• 47:16
  Speaker 7: what a sweetie, and oh my goodness, of course you
• 47:19
  Speaker 7: do that and be that way, and I just love
• 47:22
  Speaker 7: you and that's what we do for each other.
• 47:24
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's you know, it doesn't make me a little
• 47:26
  Speaker 5: emotional here thinking about how in the middle of if
• 47:31
  Speaker 5: like a less mature shadow is coming out or causing
• 47:35
  Speaker 5: me to say something insensitive, which has slice that some
• 47:40
  Speaker 5: of carries deepest attachment wounds.
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: In the middle of all of that.
• 47:44
  Speaker 5: She's both able to express her her valid hurt about
• 47:50
  Speaker 5: that and also somehow like see the perspective of the
• 47:56
  Speaker 5: like wounded part of me that I've shamed and pushed
• 47:59
  Speaker 5: away from, which is what's actually causing all of this,
• 48:02
  Speaker 5: and trying to help me learn to love that part
• 48:07
  Speaker 5: of myself and bring it back into my heart and
• 48:09
  Speaker 5: integrate it, and it just I feel so privileged and
• 48:16
  Speaker 5: blessed that she has such strength and resilience to be
• 48:19
  Speaker 5: able to hold both of those at the same time.
• 48:24
  Speaker 5: And it's almost like we've created this shared nervous system
• 48:30
  Speaker 5: between our relationship, which may flag is codependent by certain
• 48:35
  Speaker 5: kind of metrics, but it is really a like. The
• 48:40
  Speaker 5: benefits are coregulation, like each of our strengths, like helping
• 48:45
  Speaker 5: to lift up the other person's weakness.
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: The kind of drawbacks from.
• 48:49
  Speaker 5: The codependent side is like, if she's not okay, I'm
• 48:52
  Speaker 5: not okay, and I'm not okay, she's not okay, and.
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: We're both going to pour our both of.
• 48:56
  Speaker 5: Ourselves into whatever it takes to get our kind of
• 49:00
  Speaker 5: shared relational nervous system back to where it needs to be.
• 49:04
  Speaker 5: And I think that could flag as danger if you
• 49:07
  Speaker 5: don't truly trust your partner and if you're used to
• 49:11
  Speaker 5: over functioning and just giving giving, giving into a black
• 49:15
  Speaker 5: hole like that might not be I'm not advertising that
• 49:18
  Speaker 5: as like a relational structure for everybody, but it's what
• 49:22
  Speaker 5: we're trying and so far.
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: Really loving it.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you're not going past your setting up boundaries
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: and you're very open and talking about what those boundaries are,
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: where you want to go, where you don't want to go,
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: and exploring that together in a super open way. It's
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: really cool to watch, Thank.
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: You, Yeah, it is. It's like Brene Brown. I love
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: when she talks about that level of honesty and relationships
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: where someone can turn, you know that's having a harder day,
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: turned to the partner and say, you know, I only
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: have twenty percent to give today, and the other one
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: says that's okay, I'll show up with eighty or maybe
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: even says well I only have forty, So then they
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: know that they're only working with a sixty percent capacity, right.
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: But it's that level of education where you're just so
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: you're so free to say what you can give and
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: what you need, and the other one can also say
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: what they can give and what they need, and then
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: you just you know what you're working with and.
• 50:27
  Speaker 4: To use your word.
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: I love couples that talk about alchemizing their.
• 50:31
  Speaker 4: Relationship and everything.
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: That's why Scott and I are so drawn to younger couples.
• 50:34
  Speaker 4: They get it so much.
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: But it's, you know, how integral that is in terms
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: of your capacity to build and nurture a relationship it
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: doesn't happen by just magic, you know, by sharing a
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: house together. It is so intentional, it's so very intentional,
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: and the energetic level that you give to it is
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: the it's it's the fuel.
• 51:02
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I agree, Yeah, we really. I mean that is
• 51:07
  Speaker 7: kind of a distinction and a difference. I think about
• 51:09
  Speaker 7: our relationship that we have created and longed to create,
• 51:14
  Speaker 7: and a container that could alchemize our deepest wounds, and
• 51:20
  Speaker 7: it's extraordinary to feel, but it certainly isn't for everyone.
• 51:25
  Speaker 7: Like it requires an immense level of honesty. I think
• 51:28
  Speaker 7: that was a prerequisite that I would say before entering
• 51:31
  Speaker 7: this relationship, that both Steven and I had to reach
• 51:34
  Speaker 7: on our own is a level of honesty with ourselves
• 51:38
  Speaker 7: that few people are comfortable enough to go there. Because
• 51:40
  Speaker 7: this means when you reach this level of honesty, you
• 51:44
  Speaker 7: you got to look at the unpleasant parts of yourself.
• 51:47
  Speaker 6: You gotta look at your shadows.
• 51:48
  Speaker 7: You got to look at the ways you've wronged others
• 51:50
  Speaker 7: and hurt others and the dumb shit you've done, and
• 51:54
  Speaker 7: you got to find within yourself an ability to have
• 51:59
  Speaker 7: some level of forgiveness, compassion, acceptance, recognize and own up
• 52:05
  Speaker 7: to your failures, and I think both of us have
• 52:09
  Speaker 7: a way of being where we're both quite lighthearted people
• 52:14
  Speaker 7: because of all the like noticing of the dumb shit
• 52:19
  Speaker 7: we've done in life, and we both have an ability
• 52:22
  Speaker 7: to really laugh at ourselves and laugh at our own
• 52:24
  Speaker 7: failures and laugh at our mistakes. And so I think
• 52:27
  Speaker 7: that was a huge component going into it that really
• 52:31
  Speaker 7: created this energy where we both were like, oh, this
• 52:35
  Speaker 7: is like the alchemizing container of my soul's dreams to
• 52:39
  Speaker 7: be a part of. That's so joyous and loving. And
• 52:44
  Speaker 7: but yeah, beyond the honesty, it's like having that safety
• 52:50
  Speaker 7: and then also the appreciation is a really important component
• 52:55
  Speaker 7: of alchemy. And I call Steven a gratitude jukebox. I'm
• 52:59
  Speaker 7: pretty sure there's got to be at least every day.
• 53:01
  Speaker 7: It's probably like he says maybe one hundred and fifty
• 53:04
  Speaker 7: things that he's grateful for about me, Like it's I mean,
• 53:07
  Speaker 7: it's just a constant stream of gratitude and.
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: That's got to feel good.
• 53:12
  Speaker 6: It's it's so wonderful, and I yeah, we.
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: Have a So I have a question. Did you have
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: a question, Honey, I've got a question.
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: No, Okay, go ahead, here's the question. So, Carrie, you're
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: a lot like me in that you We've talked about
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: this a bit. You know, you went into photography, you
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: went into music, and you find your you know, your
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: happy place in that creative artistic energy that brings you
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: presence into your life. Right. So, when Steve and I
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: first met and we're we were talking about all of
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: this stuff, it's pretty cool to me to see that
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: you've manifested into your life this creative person who's now
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: helping you. And they showed up in the TP the
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: other and Steve busts out this gigantic box of harmonicas
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: and he's been, you know, exploring your artistic side and
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: your creative side. So maybe, you know, each of you
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: could talk about that, but I think what Steve would
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: have to say about that journey, I'm pretty interested in
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: how that's unfolded.
• 54:20
  Speaker 5: Well, yeah, I want to hear Carry's perspective on this too,
• 54:22
  Speaker 5: But like lay said, it's almost like you don't always
• 54:26
  Speaker 5: know what's around the next corner. I can go back
• 54:29
  Speaker 5: to journal entry from a year ago, which I really love,
• 54:31
  Speaker 5: which was trying to paint the current state of things,
• 54:36
  Speaker 5: and talked about a lot of the aspects of a
• 54:39
  Speaker 5: relationship that I would create, and this relationship has hit
• 54:43
  Speaker 5: all of them. But I wasn't even it wasn't even
• 54:46
  Speaker 5: on the map to sync into music and artwork and
• 54:50
  Speaker 5: the ways that Carrie has brought this, like she's really
• 54:54
  Speaker 5: brought this love and creativity, art and music into the
• 54:59
  Speaker 5: house that my kids and I were in that now
• 55:01
  Speaker 5: it feels like a home. And especially through music, which
• 55:06
  Speaker 5: I've been shut off to for so much of my life,
• 55:10
  Speaker 5: it's been helping me to find my own inner critic
• 55:13
  Speaker 5: that tells me, don't do that, you're stupid, you're behind,
• 55:15
  Speaker 5: you're terrible at this, and lean into it in a
• 55:18
  Speaker 5: way that somehow is helping me to learn and integrate
• 55:23
  Speaker 5: these lessons on humility in probably it's still uncomfortable, but
• 55:29
  Speaker 5: probably the most comfortable way possible, because the alternative to
• 55:34
  Speaker 5: learning these lessons of humility is going to be far
• 55:37
  Speaker 5: more painful. So like, let's learn it in music, Like
• 55:41
  Speaker 5: what a beautiful ground for it. But you know, on
• 55:46
  Speaker 5: our relational pillars, like our emotional attraction, physical attraction, our
• 55:51
  Speaker 5: spiritual connection, our sexual connection, like have all been like
• 55:55
  Speaker 5: more than I could imagine.
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: And then on.
• 55:57
  Speaker 5: Top of that, these other areas that I. It didn't
• 56:00
  Speaker 5: even have a box for I didn't even have a
• 56:02
  Speaker 5: checkbox for. I just thought they weren't for me. And
• 56:05
  Speaker 5: Carrie's leading us through the artist way right now in
• 56:08
  Speaker 5: a twelve week kind of sessions with other people coming
• 56:13
  Speaker 5: into it. I can't overstate the impact that that's had
• 56:17
  Speaker 5: on my life, my children and business too.
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: But I want to.
• 56:21
  Speaker 5: Hear from Carrie's perspective because she is a musical missionary.
• 56:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah no, that's good, I understand. Yeah what.
• 56:35
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I do.
• 56:36
  Speaker 4: I do.
• 56:38
  Speaker 7: It's my absolute joy of joys to be a missionary
• 56:41
  Speaker 7: for music. And it's my joy of joys too, like
• 56:48
  Speaker 7: my soul's number one interest is creating a harmonious environment
• 56:53
  Speaker 7: for family in the home, and to me, that's why
• 56:56
  Speaker 7: I love music and sharing music is the process of
• 57:01
  Speaker 7: learning music and for children to bear around music. Like
• 57:05
  Speaker 7: his daughter and I. I play the guitar and she'll
• 57:08
  Speaker 7: just make up songs and it's so beautiful. As someone
• 57:11
  Speaker 7: who always is wanting to write songs, it's so humbling
• 57:14
  Speaker 7: when you watch a little seven year old just like
• 57:16
  Speaker 7: making up music and making up songs and just going
• 57:19
  Speaker 7: for it.
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're so curious. There's no limits.
• 57:23
  Speaker 7: Yeah, and they don't have to have it sat be good.
• 57:27
  Speaker 6: There's no need. There's nothing in them that's like.
• 57:29
  Speaker 8: This must be highbrow and this must be fine arts.
• 57:32
  Speaker 8: And if it's not, like I'm not interested. My taste
• 57:35
  Speaker 8: is too high. I'm a snob for this. Like they're
• 57:37
  Speaker 8: just like my boo boo heards and it's bleeding, like
• 57:44
  Speaker 8: you know what it is, flows right out, and.
• 57:50
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I think there's so many amazing lessons that music
• 57:53
  Speaker 7: teaches of us of how to take our place in
• 57:57
  Speaker 7: the symphony of nature, and how to really sense the
• 58:00
  Speaker 7: frequency in the room and harmonize with the room, and
• 58:03
  Speaker 7: how to move our consciousness and our sense of awareness
• 58:06
  Speaker 7: outside of ourselves and move.
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: It into the room.
• 58:09
  Speaker 7: So we're like hearing how we sound and how we're
• 58:12
  Speaker 7: syncing up with others. And like, you know, at first,
• 58:16
  Speaker 7: when you're singing, it's mimicry. You're trying to mimic it.
• 58:19
  Speaker 7: And then eventually when you're singing, it's something like develops
• 58:25
  Speaker 7: from within you and it starts taking the texture and
• 58:28
  Speaker 7: the layers of your inner landscape as it moves through
• 58:31
  Speaker 7: your throat. And there's just endless, endless lessons that music
• 58:37
  Speaker 7: teaches us that are incredibly profound and it's just my
• 58:41
  Speaker 7: absolute joy to get to invite Steven into that. The
• 58:45
  Speaker 7: harmonica came about because he loves breath work. I don't
• 58:49
  Speaker 7: understand breath work, Like maybe if it was branded as
• 58:51
  Speaker 7: breath play, I might be doing it, but I don't
• 58:56
  Speaker 7: understand why I'd want to go do work and just
• 58:58
  Speaker 7: breathe Like it doesn't make sense to me. But so
• 59:01
  Speaker 7: Steven loves breath work, and so I was just like, well,
• 59:04
  Speaker 7: then we got to get you a harmonica, like that's
• 59:06
  Speaker 7: all breath like, that's breath play. And so we got
• 59:10
  Speaker 7: it and he didn't know how to play, and I
• 59:11
  Speaker 7: was just like goofing around not knowing, not knowing how
• 59:14
  Speaker 7: to play, and then he just picked it up instantly
• 59:16
  Speaker 7: and was like playing.
• 59:17
  Speaker 6: I'm like, well, there you go. Now you've got a harmonica.
• 59:20
  Speaker 7: He went from having zero harmonicas to twenty three harmonicas
• 59:24
  Speaker 7: in the span of two days.
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw that big box. He's got the sharps
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: and flats and all of it.
• 59:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's awesome. Most key.
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, I'm absolutely an advocate for that same
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: thing and for me, as I've leaned into that, keeping
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: it simple is where my focus has always been because
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: I want that to happen. I want the children to
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: come over and participate, or someone like Steve who's never
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: done it before, to come over and participate. When we
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: open up a drum circle, if there's no one there
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: that can drum or hasn't ever drummed before, I'm all
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: over that because that I was that person. You know,
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: I had that experience and to watch that unfold. You know,
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: you and I, Carrie, we have lots of mutual friends
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: because you live down in Boulder, so we have lots
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: of mutual friends down there that are really into that
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: musical that musical world. But I loved what you said.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: It's like when we when we move away from that
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: energy of perfection and just allow it to unfold or
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: flow through us, that's where the magic happens. And especially
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: when we're all doing it together. I know so many
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: people that are just they amaze me that they're such
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: good musicians, but they will not record anything because it
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: has to be absolutely perfect. And I don't think that's
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: what music is supposed to be. I think music is
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: supposed to be in flow. So I love that you
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: guys are living in that world.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 7: Well, and I saw when I met Steve and we
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 7: met a meta sound. So I feel like from the
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 7: moment I met him, I'm like, hello, shadow musician, Like
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 7: all your friends or you're going to drum circles and
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 7: pretending you're not into it yet.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: You know, you're go.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 7: Hanging with Scott, who's like the floutest and the like hello,
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 7: I see you over there, Like get on in the circle.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's fun, that's it is.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: It's very cool. Well, so what are you guys up to?
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: I mean we're we're what kind of projects are you
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: working on? What are things? What things are happening for
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: you right now?
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 5: Mhmm, Well, stay tuned. Carrie's going to be offering some
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 5: stuff around the Earthship a musical songwriting retreat.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: This is a property you have that's really cool.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 5: Yeah, self sustaining kind of built into the earth south
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 5: facing windows. Scott's been out there for some men's retreats
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 5: we've done where he brought his whole trailer full of drumming.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 5: I can't overstate, just on a quick aside, the flow
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 5: I've felt through drumming with Scott has translated into flow
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 5: in so many other areas of my life. They're not separate.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 5: The flow of creativity and that connection into whatever we're
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 5: connecting into.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: It's a metaphor for it all.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it is, and yeah, finding that rhythm. So look
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 5: for a songwriter's retreat come in that Carrie is organizing,
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 5: probably sometime early summer. And I think you should talk
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 5: a little bit about the you know, offerings that you're
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 5: putting together to help people kind of reclaim their body
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 5: and power.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 7: So a little bit about what I offer in the
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 7: world is I do photo shoots for women, often nude,
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 7: sometimes not nude, about reclaiming their bodies because I personally
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 7: experienced body violation as a child, and that you spoke
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 7: earlier about shame getting tethered up with you. And one
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 7: of the most profound experiences of my life was being
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 7: at a retreat for a bunch of women who had
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 7: survived and experienced sexual abuse in their childhood, and they said,
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 7: the most common thing that happens with this, one of
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 7: the most common like a symptom of the cold, is
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 7: that your identity gets tethered with shame. And when they
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 7: told me that, my whole identity ripped apart.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 6: Yeah, well, yeah.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 7: It's so deep and so for me personally in my life,
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 7: my life is defined by alchemy and transformation. And for
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 7: me between having the gyms when I was younger now
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 7: doing the photo shoots with women, I'm always all about
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 7: guiding people into their body. Like I teached movement to teens,
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 7: high risk teens that are recidal and have anxiety and depression,
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 7: and just I'm always teaching them how we use our
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 7: breath to alchemize, how we use movement to alchemize, how
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 7: we can initiate the voice of mother nature inside to
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 7: hold us with compassion and acceptance, and that that energy
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 7: is always there and that so anyway, I'm always teaching alchemy.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 7: So I'm going to be opening up again for mostly
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 7: for women, to do movement experiences where we're alchemizing wounds,
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 7: particularly the wounds of body violation, wounds that cause many
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 7: of us, myself included for much of my life, to
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 7: dissociate and like Peter Levine refers to that as a
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 7: soul rape when a child is actually abused, and that's
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 7: very much what it felt like for me and for
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 7: much of my life, it felt like my soul was
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 7: far away from my body, especially because it happened when
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 7: I was a child, so it was like protected somewhere else,
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 7: which I think is also what allows me to be
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 7: so ch childlike, is that it got preserved in this
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 7: little place my whole life.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 3: And now.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 7: That I feel so physically, emotionally, sexually, energetically safe, it's
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 7: the greatest joy of my life. But it was also
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 7: the great the mount everest of my life to get
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 7: my soul to really land in my body and to
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 7: feel confident in my body, and to feel safe in
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 7: my body, and to feel safe honestly expressing my natural energy,
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 7: which is very sensually live. Sensual means all of our senses,
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 7: you know, it means being sensually alive in the environment.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 7: And that natural energy that got exploited as a child
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 7: is something that I really want to help other women,
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 7: especially come back to themselves and reclaim that energy within themselves,
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 7: so both through photography and movement and then obviously always
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 7: offering musical offerings as well.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 4: That's awesome.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well we'll definitely put that in the show notes. Yeah,
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: any songwriting sounds fabulous.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: We want to get your all of your ways for
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: people to connect with you and the work that you're doing,
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: and anything else you guys want to share before we end.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 5: I just want to express so much gratitude to both
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 5: of you for the spaces you've created. I've heard other
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 5: people on your podcast talk about how much you meant
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 5: to them, and Scott, You've played such a pivotal role
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 5: so many things that we can't even get into on
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 5: this podcast, but it's really meaningful to me. And it's
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 5: funny because in some ways I identify more with Lay's background,
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 5: and it's kind of suspicious to me that carries like
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 5: a younger female version of Scott. It's true anyway, Just
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 5: love both of you guys.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 6: Thank you.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: And something that Steve and I bantered about here at
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: a certain point was that because I told you from
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: the beginning, because you were so curious and you ask
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: so many gd questions but they were really good questions,
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: I told Steve you needed to have a podcast, and
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: he said, well, I don't know if I really want
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: to do that, but I would like to interview you. Yeah,
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: and he thinks I'm afraid of it, and I'm really not.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: I'm not.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 3: I'm not.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: I don't have any reservation about it. But at some
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: point in time we'd like to do. That will be
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: part of it too. It won't be just me.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: Well, I'll be here to listen. But I do think
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: it would be fun to turn the tables. We have
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: had a couple of people do that from Sasha and
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: Adam came and they wanted to come and turn the
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: tables and interview us, and so I think that would
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: be fun.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 3: It would be my honor.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 5: I mean, I think just getting to guide the things
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 5: that I find to be so impressive and inspiring about
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 5: Scott's journey and the trials and tribulations that he's been through.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 3: I would love that honor.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well, schedule that.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: Well that happened, Let's make it happen.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 3: And it's not.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: It's about both of us because you know that we've
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: we've both been doing this dance. I just did it
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: before you did, and so as I observed you, I
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: saw so many aspects of you that were me in
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: that place where I was feeling disconnected when we first met,
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: but you had been leaning into it, you'd been doing
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: your healing, and we just had so many things. So
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: that we're going to put that out there as a teaser.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: That's going to be something that we need to do
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: I think in the next month or so.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 3: Can't wait, Let's do it.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that'll be fun, all right.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 7: I also wanted to share some gratitude that I think
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 7: it's quite apparent that there's a lot about the TP
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 7: Tuesdays and like you two's friendship that has prepared Stephen
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 7: for this kind of relationship. And so I want to
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 7: share some gratitude that I see that. And I feel
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 7: a lot of gratitude for your mentorship that you offered
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 7: to Steven.
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: Well, I feel I feel honored. I like to always
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: tell the story that Steve interrupted me so often when
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: I was talking. You know what I'm talking about. Yeah,
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: he would. I would just be getting in the flow
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: of talking about something and he would interrupt me, and
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: I'd lose my train of thought. But he's super curious,
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: and this is what I love about you. But eventually
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: I said, Okay, Steve, here's the deal. Every time you
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: interrupt me, twenty bucks. You go only twenty dollars every
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: time you interrupt me. And he's like, okay, fine, great,
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: and I just continued to keep talking. He pulls his
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: phone out and he says, what's your venmo? I give
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: you my venmo he ven wos me not twenty he
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: venos me one hundred, so that he can have permission
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: to interrupt me five times. For the future.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 3: Money well spent, Money well spend.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: We've we've had some great conversations and I look forward
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: to doing more.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I love you bus so much. Thank you so much.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: We love you guys too.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: Thanks for gving here, Thanks for coming to our home.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: Yes you all right, So until next time.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 4: Bye.
• 1:10:09
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• 1:10:32
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• 1:10:35
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• 1:10:38
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• 1:10:42
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• 1:10:50
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• 1:10:53
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• 1:10:56
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