Latest / Connect Call / EP10 - The Truth About Treatment Admissions: What Families Need to Know with Kurtis and Jen

Transcript

EP10 - The Truth About Treatment Admissions: What Families Need to Know with Kurtis and Jen · Connect Call

0:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Hi, you've reached the voicemail of Hannah Brett with Connect Call.
0:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Just leave a message and I'll get back to you soon as I can.
0:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks.
0:07
[SPEAKER_03]: It's one for more options.
0:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, Hannah.
0:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I got your number from our doctor.
0:12
[SPEAKER_00]: I have...
0:15
[SPEAKER_00]: uh, a young adult who needs treatment again and why I say again is we have been through a few programs and I am so emotionally exhausted, almost financially exhausted and I just, you know, a lot of times I found that the people I was speaking to on the front end were not giving me the correct information and he was probably in the wrong programs and I just need
0:42
[SPEAKER_00]: just if an a program with you, you can connect me to somebody who actually has a pulse and cares and will help my son.
0:51
[SPEAKER_00]: If you can get back to me that'd be great.
0:54
[SPEAKER_02]: This is Hannibal, another episode of Connect Call, where I often say, don't make fun of this tag long by the way guys, where I often say that I do not have a clinical background, but I do have a PhD for picking up the phone for families in crisis.
1:09
[SPEAKER_02]: And this episode, which is very important, I think, and I've been wanting to do this episode for a minute, is really to
1:18
[SPEAKER_02]: talk about it at the admissions process.
1:20
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm very fortunate to have two of my favorite people here.
1:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I've got Curtis.
1:24
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to always say you're last name around Gerard.
1:26
[SPEAKER_02]: How are you doing?
1:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Great.
1:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Curtis.
1:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
1:29
[SPEAKER_02]: And I met at Visions.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Curtis was the admissions liaison for some years at Visions.
1:35
[SPEAKER_02]: And now is the co-founder of Desert Willow Wellness.
1:39
[SPEAKER_02]: And Jen Sawyer, who also
1:47
[SPEAKER_02]: both amazing facilities and both you'll find in the show notes for more information.
1:53
[SPEAKER_02]: But I really wanted my experts and admissions to be able to answer these questions.
1:59
[SPEAKER_02]: So guys, I think I'm just going to start just from the beginning and that, you know, I think
2:06
[SPEAKER_02]: what I found in 20 years of marketing is if I could shake families or show them what questions to ask admissions if your child is needing.
2:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Residential treatment or even PHP or IOP.
2:21
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I always say to families you should have more than one option and you should know which questions to ask because this is a major investment.
2:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Unfortunately, what I find is they don't
2:34
[SPEAKER_02]: And you don't know what services are included.
2:37
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't know a lot.
2:39
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I mean, so I've even created, which I'm going to put on this episode as well, tend to 20 questions for young adult and adolescent programs of questions to ask.
2:48
[SPEAKER_02]: But important questions that need to be answered before you make this decision.
2:53
[SPEAKER_02]: So I guess what do you think is like the biggest misconception families have about the admissions process when they're starting this?
3:00
[SPEAKER_03]: I think her they could say, oh, just go Curtis, we can go with that.
3:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Can we break, right?
3:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
3:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know.
3:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And that, you know, at least the way that I think Jen, my understanding of Jen and myself is that it's actually a couple different components, right?
3:22
[SPEAKER_01]: No, but into one.
3:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
3:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Really, we're trying to.
3:26
[SPEAKER_01]: build rapport, we're trying to get a sense of what's going on, we're going to get a sense of how we can help affect change in this person's life, whether the right fit for us or somewhere else.
3:36
[SPEAKER_03]: All right.
3:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I live in this field.
3:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I know a lot of different variants that the naked eye won't be able to see.
3:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
3:44
[SPEAKER_01]: That Google won't.
3:46
[SPEAKER_01]: put on on the front page.
3:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
3:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
3:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And and there's a lot of odd oddities and nuances that might shift the direction of where this person might fit best, right?
3:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
3:58
[SPEAKER_01]: My job is to understand that.
4:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Jen, what do you think are some of the misconceptions?
4:04
[SPEAKER_03]: I agree.
4:05
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's like they do think it's a sales thing.
4:07
[SPEAKER_03]: I do think that they think we're trying to hook them in right and sell something and.
4:14
[SPEAKER_03]: When I first started doing admissions, right, my first admissions job, I said, I'm not a sales person.
4:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
4:22
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I learned over time, it's nothing about sales.
4:26
[SPEAKER_03]: It's about connecting with a human being.
4:29
[SPEAKER_03]: It's about connecting with a family.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's about.
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[SPEAKER_03]: get gathering every bit of information outside of finances or anything else like who are y'all as a family?
4:41
[SPEAKER_03]: How did you get on this phone call with me today?
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[SPEAKER_03]: Like how did we get here?
4:45
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It was your loved one outside of this moment of crisis.
4:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
4:51
[SPEAKER_03]: And what I always tell families is whether you're a fit for my facility or not, I'm sticking with you to make sure.
4:59
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
5:00
[SPEAKER_03]: We find the right place for you.
5:01
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
5:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
5:03
[SPEAKER_02]: And I love that you said that, because I've always said it's someone in marketing over the years and I've tried to teach other reps this that it is, it's an honor for families to be calling us.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And to just give them a phone number, it just kick them, you know, if they're not right for your program.
5:23
[SPEAKER_02]: we should be connecting them personally for a warm welcome to the next program.
5:27
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?
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[SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.
5:29
[SPEAKER_02]: The follow-up because as you guys probably know a lot of these families are work.
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[SPEAKER_02]: They'll call admissions but then they might be in this what we call analysis paralysis where they're not ready to go with this.
5:43
[SPEAKER_02]: And I guess
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[SPEAKER_02]: With the next question, like, where do you feel like, what are some of the signs of families should stop start exploring treatment?
5:54
[SPEAKER_02]: And why I say this is, I stress to all families and if nothing else is said today, I need to be said, you do not call admissions.
6:02
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you can, but we don't like when you call admissions in crisis.
6:07
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't want to make this decision in crisis, you know, so I always tell families, even if you're not ready today, this is informational interviewing, like let's find the program for your loved one, because yes, we can bring somebody in in 24 hours, but it would be better if not in crisis.
6:27
[SPEAKER_02]: So when Wendy, what are signs that families should start exploring these options of calling admissions.
6:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I think if it's a thought, if it's like, hey, this doesn't seem, this started starting to seem a little outside of my scope of support, right?
6:41
[SPEAKER_01]: We're like a free consult, you know, really are.
6:45
[SPEAKER_01]: You guys really are.
6:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to answer the phone at all hours of the day.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Someone's going to come back to you.
6:53
[SPEAKER_01]: They're going to get some information.
6:54
[SPEAKER_01]: They're going to start to move the needle and getting you answers.
6:58
[SPEAKER_00]: But you're looking for, right?
7:03
[SPEAKER_01]: be even thinking about right which is going to help you start to formulate and the more comfort comfortable you can get with that understanding from an outside perspective right it's got actually less than the in my experience going to lessen the the
7:20
[SPEAKER_01]: difficulty of when a crisis does occur.
7:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Correct.
7:25
[SPEAKER_02]: And also, I want to stress, and then Jen, love to hear from you as well, is, you know, what's beautiful about really good admissions people is you can call them.
7:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And
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[SPEAKER_02]: And if you need an interventionist, if you need a trans case, they will cure also if you're wearing a story, you know, you guys are not strong enough.
7:46
[SPEAKER_02]: And I say this in the nicest or they don't, not strong enough.
7:50
[SPEAKER_02]: But as a family, you guys need some help, you know, not strong enough.
7:55
[SPEAKER_02]: They need help in how to message and how to do this and how to wrap their love one and bring them
8:07
[SPEAKER_02]: and less and wrong, 99, 99, 9% of adults, young adults, adolescents, they're not willing and wanting to walk through this door, but you, we need to, you know, show them what they need until, and they will see in the process when they're in treatment and surrender to it, but a lot of times we are needing to intervene and kind of, like my mother didn't have an
8:37
[SPEAKER_03]: because she listened to my family therapist.
8:41
[SPEAKER_02]: She said, you don't have to go.
8:44
[SPEAKER_02]: But here's what's going to happen.
8:46
[SPEAKER_02]: You're not paying any more for the apartment in New York.
8:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Your credit cards are cut up.
8:52
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm pulling back on you.
8:53
[SPEAKER_02]: And I always say, nobody loved me as much as my mom.
8:56
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you did, you can do this.
8:58
[SPEAKER_02]: And I remember going, well, what if I get out there and I want to leave?
9:01
[SPEAKER_02]: She goes, walk out the door.
9:02
[SPEAKER_02]: But no one's coming to get you.
9:07
[SPEAKER_02]: And she made it really difficult for me to not go.
9:12
[SPEAKER_02]: And like I always say, and this is also another line, I'm probably gonna put on some merch.
9:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Whoever has the pesos has the pesos.
9:22
[SPEAKER_01]: It's turning your tag along.
9:23
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a good one.
9:24
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been a long time.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's a true.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know who told me this years ago, but I literally have said that so many families who feel so powerless.
9:33
[SPEAKER_02]: That's so cool.
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[SPEAKER_02]: What Jen, I'll start with you.
9:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, what information helps and admissions team determine whether a program is a good fit for them?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Like, what information do you typically need from the family except for being completely honest, which would help.
9:51
[SPEAKER_03]: completely honest and like just going back a little bit to like your question, right?
9:56
[SPEAKER_03]: I think then that what helps with calling admissions sooner rather than later is the navigation, right?
10:04
[SPEAKER_03]: Like we can help them navigate who what's actually going on with their loved one?
10:11
[SPEAKER_03]: Like you said, getting them in touch with a family
10:15
[SPEAKER_03]: interventionist they think intervention and they they get really scared, but like the boundaries and such you talked about with your mom and a lot of parents families don't even understand what they're willing are able to commit to right correct so like bringing in someone to help them so those are all the things we can do as far as the information.
10:37
[SPEAKER_03]: I spend so many hours on the phones with families with loved ones, without side providers that are involved with the case therapist or right if there's already an interventionist involved and it's gathering information like I will spend hours with you just talking about.
10:59
[SPEAKER_03]: What's going on?
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[SPEAKER_03]: What's the history?
11:01
[SPEAKER_03]: When did it start?
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[SPEAKER_03]: What were they like as a child?
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[SPEAKER_03]: What were their successes in life?
11:07
[SPEAKER_03]: When did this happen?
11:09
[SPEAKER_03]: Was there some event?
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[SPEAKER_03]: Was it a trauma, traumatic thing, gathering and gathering and gathering, right?
11:18
[SPEAKER_03]: And then determining from that.
11:20
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I listen and I gather all this stuff and then I just, and then I talk about
11:28
[SPEAKER_03]: what we do or when other programs do can don't I I never go into who driftwood is right right it's like who are you as a fan.
11:39
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah right.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Right, and like because it has better for the family as well as for the baby center, you know, you want to make sure Right, say you were you have the right fit, you know, and I mean yeah, and if we're not the right fit, then like who and like this, the sounds maybe more.
11:58
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, like maybe they're more OCD, but we don't know really what that OCD is.
12:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe some like diagnostics are warranted.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe, I mean, there's just so many ways to take it, but you have to get a full understanding of who you're talking to and that's way back.
12:14
[SPEAKER_03]: It goes into childhood.
12:17
[SPEAKER_03]: again, like successes in life.
12:20
[SPEAKER_03]: How are they showing up right now?
12:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Was it just like they recently retired and their kids left?
12:26
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
12:27
[SPEAKER_03]: And she'll hit the fan, right?
12:29
[SPEAKER_03]: Like there's just so many aspects to all of it and trying to figure out the right place and for someone.
12:35
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's not black and white ever.
12:39
[SPEAKER_03]: And every person you talked is different, right?
12:41
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
12:42
[SPEAKER_03]: They don't fit into a box.
12:43
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not exactly exactly.
12:45
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
12:45
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think also that you touched on which is important.
12:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I will remember, and I know this to be true with like adolescence or young adults.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I always try to ask families or
12:55
[SPEAKER_02]: for families to speak on when was there this shift in them because typically you will find there is a shift because something has happened right yes they've been bullied there's something really dramatic a top end and the behavior changes the use starts and just to stress again
13:14
[SPEAKER_02]: All the substance abuse, substance abuse, eating disorder, self harm, all of it is self medicating, right?
13:21
[SPEAKER_02]: For mental health and trauma.
13:22
[SPEAKER_02]: And so, but obviously like Jen was saying, we have to know who this client is because, let's say, if they're eating disorder is really active, they, you guys may not be the right place first.
13:36
[SPEAKER_02]: They need to kind of get stabilized.
13:39
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, Curtis, is there any information you need?
13:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm always looking, I'm always looking for folks to share enough with me so that I can understand like what is the hang up content where we're distracting from what's going on?
13:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, maybe features and good leverage points right clinically.
13:59
[SPEAKER_01]: But what's the plot?
14:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I think a lot of times,
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[SPEAKER_01]: families tend to kind of get in a circle loop of the content of like, oh well, they're this one friend or this one girlfriend or this boy friend or this friend group or we moved towns and we've got to like overhaul a lot of things when really there's just a missing component of connection oftentimes or right some harm that needs to be supported or there's something that needs to be
14:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I always think about that.
14:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm really trying to help folks get more aligned with the plot of why are they calling, what is happening, what is their goal?
14:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Their goal is ultimately to help their loved one.
14:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
14:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And if I'm really resentful about this new relationship in their life, then I want to kind of categorize this person as this bad seed in my person's life.
14:55
[SPEAKER_01]: You're moving away from the fact that they
14:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe needs some support and some skills that on how to identify and discernment within their relationships, right?
15:05
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the plot.
15:06
[SPEAKER_01]: The plot is they don't know what's safe and not and what's in in kind of coming into their space And so how do we educate that person and help them and give them the tools and the skills that to be able to do that?
15:18
[SPEAKER_01]: So when they grow into from a teenager to adulthood to your other point
15:24
[SPEAKER_01]: talking about, like folks don't come to treatment, quote-unquote willing, even folks that say, especially teen, however, the kids that they're like, well, they're, they're a panel call, they're willing, they want this.
15:40
[SPEAKER_01]: 100 out of 100 times they walk into treatment, they see what it looks like, they talk to one or two staff members and they turn around and they go, can I talk to you, mom or dad?
15:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Along, that's get away from these people, right?
15:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
15:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So sure.
15:53
[SPEAKER_01]: What we need to do, what we need to do, what we need to do to sound great, but what we need to do is we need to leave your immediately.
16:01
[SPEAKER_01]: we need to go get some ice cream to make a decision about this in like six to nine months.
16:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
16:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
16:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
16:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And so even even that, you know, like folks don't get, you know, asking someone to engage clinically is scary.
16:15
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a lot.
16:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, a lot of challenging stuff that's going to happen.
16:20
[SPEAKER_02]: They're like, we need them.
16:20
[SPEAKER_02]: We need to act now.
16:21
[SPEAKER_02]: They're willing to go today.
16:22
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, okay, well, they probably, if they're using substance, it's coming are coming down.
16:27
[SPEAKER_02]: And so they're willing.
16:28
[SPEAKER_02]: And tomorrow's a new day.
16:30
[SPEAKER_03]: So tomorrow's a new day.
16:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Right?
16:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Or, um, you know, uh,
16:35
[SPEAKER_02]: We just have to slow down the process, you know, because this willing or not willing can change within an hour, right?
16:43
[SPEAKER_02]: And so the most important thing is whether someone is willing or not, you as the loved one family employer, everybody is prepared to just kind of give the same messaging and encourage this person that this is where we're going, you know, and
17:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Like an example recently I worked with a family right with a young adult and yeah in college right kind of going off the rails super talented artists all these things.
17:18
[SPEAKER_03]: her parents were split.
17:21
[SPEAKER_03]: So you got mom and you got dad over here who's thrown the money.
17:26
[SPEAKER_03]: And mom is seeing that her she's going off the rails.
17:30
[SPEAKER_03]: She's finally spent, I mean, it probably took four months for them to actually go to treatment, but they spent all of that time, mom and stepdad.
17:40
[SPEAKER_03]: They actually flew out, came to see us toward metwithclinical, talk to our psychologist.
17:46
[SPEAKER_03]: They went to other places, did the same thing.
17:49
[SPEAKER_03]: So when it really blew up, she was ready to go where she needed to go, right?
17:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Which I love that you said that, because I say this to my parents all the time.
17:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I go, if you guys are traveling around the country, looking at colleges, this is kind of great.
18:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Like this to me, it's like,
18:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Especially with the young adults, like this is a very important investment, you know, where, yes, insurance can pay me on the portion of it, but typically there is going to be a cost out of your pocket.
18:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Therefore, you need to do your due diligence, you know, because, yes, or in which I hate because it people don't, then I have families who come to me going, I'm exhausted.
18:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I've been through like four programs already, you know, and I've spent this much money.
18:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And a lot of the reason because they're either rushing it or they're not asking the right questions or writing into my next question, there's a lot of programs out there that there's a lot that do a lot of the good work, right?
18:46
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's a lot of programs out there that maybe don't.
18:49
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, I always try to identify some red flags for families if they're calling admissions teams.
18:57
[SPEAKER_02]: And I I often say if they're
19:00
[SPEAKER_02]: or the client.
19:02
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no.
19:03
[SPEAKER_02]: If they say without you even giving the insurance or just now, just giving insurance, oh, we're taking it.
19:08
[SPEAKER_02]: It's good.
19:09
[SPEAKER_02]: You're good.
19:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Just come in.
19:11
[SPEAKER_02]: No, you know what I mean?
19:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, um, what are some other ones that, you know, when that admissions people talk to speak up?
19:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if you feel really pressured in that you feel really pressured, right?
19:28
[SPEAKER_01]: That just feels, if they're moving out of cadence that you just do nervous system can't handle, right?
19:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I think those are pretty big flags, right?
19:39
[SPEAKER_01]: We should be leading folks, not pushing that.
19:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
19:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
19:43
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
19:44
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
19:46
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I love that people go and do that.
19:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's too.
19:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I like doing treatment math with people.
19:50
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like, well, you know, we spent all this stuff.
19:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So treatment doesn't work, right?
19:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
19:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, okay.
19:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, like, how do we, or, or I can't afford that.
20:00
[SPEAKER_01]: But yet in the last three years, we, you know, had these lawyers, these four cars, these are one of the men's, right?
20:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, right.
20:07
[SPEAKER_02]: When you really look at that.
20:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Amen.
20:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
20:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And generally, and I'm like, what would you spend to stop that problem?
20:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, it's like worth it, but not like right or I had a family recently where, you know, they were saying they didn't have the money, but I, you know, they're son was going to a private university and we were taking them out actually and I was like, guys, I already know what that private university cost per semester at the books.
20:36
[SPEAKER_02]: the allowance add everything that you are paying for that semester and I promise you.
20:42
[SPEAKER_02]: If you just write the check to treatment instead of them, it's pretty much the same if not last, you know what I mean?
20:47
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
20:48
[SPEAKER_02]: And at the end of the day it will be less because if not intervened, you know,
20:53
[SPEAKER_02]: This doesn't get better, you know?
20:55
[SPEAKER_03]: So, ultimately, the money to college and the private university or the apartment near the university is going down the tubes anyways.
21:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
21:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
21:03
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a way to start.
21:04
[SPEAKER_03]: Their life is going to blow up.
21:05
[SPEAKER_03]: And so.
21:07
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, for sure.
21:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I think just again, it's to the point is like, it's not necessarily about the money.
21:13
[SPEAKER_01]: It's about how you and crisis slow that down and understand where you're putting that, right?
21:19
[SPEAKER_01]: That's our job.
21:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Our job is to help you connect those thoughts about how to do it.
21:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, here's some behaviors that are maybe not getting you towards your goal, right?
21:28
[SPEAKER_01]: That you're, you can be accountable to, right?
21:30
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not bad.
21:31
[SPEAKER_01]: You're just either no one gave me the book when you
21:37
[SPEAKER_01]: The hospital because it doesn't exist.
21:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a nine month old.
21:39
[SPEAKER_01]: They didn't say, hey, watch out when there's 60.
21:41
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
21:43
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
21:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
21:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and, and that's, and so there's that reduction of shame and that is like what people get to us and our job is to not add that to you.
21:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
21:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Our job is to help them to provide some of this process.
21:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
21:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And like we lived in it and we're like unshocked by a lot of it, right?
22:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And so nothing can shock us, right guys?
22:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Like nothing.
22:06
[SPEAKER_02]: I've heard it all.
22:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's like the most laid-back and fun assessment you could have, right, of your feeling on, right, it's like, you know, did you tell him this?
22:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I'm done.
22:19
[SPEAKER_01]: How many times have you told about that?
22:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, like, it's actually actually that gets there, right?
22:24
[SPEAKER_01]: But get you towards anything.
22:25
[SPEAKER_01]: You feel good about it, right?
22:29
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I think it's a pressure piece on that.
22:33
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a good one.
22:34
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, don't be sorry.
22:36
[SPEAKER_03]: I, I think the same.
22:37
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't I think that if someone is is rushing you to get to their facility.
22:43
[SPEAKER_03]: that that's a red flag, right?
22:45
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that slowing it down and taking the time to make sure this is the right fit.
22:50
[SPEAKER_03]: And if it's not, like, hey, maybe you want to explore these other places also, slow it down.
22:56
[SPEAKER_03]: And I also, like, I feel for families, right?
22:59
[SPEAKER_03]: And they don't know how to do it.
23:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And a good admission of person or team should be inviting you to look at other programs.
23:05
[SPEAKER_03]: That's another pin, which I do all the time at, and as a mother who put a daughter through treatment,
23:11
[SPEAKER_03]: working in this field, I had to take my professional hat off because it becomes very different when it's your own child, right?
23:19
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
23:19
[SPEAKER_03]: And there is like like Curtis mentioned that shame, right?
23:23
[SPEAKER_03]: Like what have I done wrong?
23:24
[SPEAKER_03]: What have I done wrong?
23:25
[SPEAKER_03]: What did not be right?
23:27
[SPEAKER_03]: And so like navigating that with them, I had to lean on people in this field that I knew and that I trusted to help me navigate that situation.
23:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so true.
23:40
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
23:41
[SPEAKER_01]: No, so going to just to these points is like once you put your loved one in treatment and you signed that dotted line right there emotional state is going to fluctuate throughout that treatment right there skills that is to leverage you to generally to rescue them right so when you sign on that dotted line if you haven't done that do diligence you haven't
24:09
[SPEAKER_01]: differences and shows it.
24:11
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to feel your experience outside while you're both going to be treated, right?
24:17
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be a lot more bumpy, right?
24:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Because right, or like, oh, there's a lot of question marks like I never even saw it.
24:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I didn't ask about their time with the clinical program look like I didn't ask if right.
24:29
[SPEAKER_02]: you have mastered life professionals.
24:31
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't ask, you know, any of their family therapists, right?
24:36
[SPEAKER_03]: Because they're family therapists, it's going to help navigate the family while you're.
24:39
[SPEAKER_03]: So, or to, you know, only feed your child's and treat it.
24:42
[SPEAKER_03]: Are you right?
24:43
[SPEAKER_03]: I got that a lot too.
24:44
[SPEAKER_01]: They're only feeding me hot pockets and there's a leaky.
24:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, right.
24:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Even my bedroom and if you're all in there and like check it out, like how are you going to know your fear.
24:54
[SPEAKER_01]: All that stuff is going to come just like,
24:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
24:57
[SPEAKER_02]: I had a mom wanted to call me to say that she couldn't believe we don't give our kids pillows.
25:04
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, why don't you, hey, before we like everything that Junior says, and again, and I have to stress this, your child or your loved one is not a liar, okay?
25:15
[SPEAKER_02]: But they, like, they're not a bad person, but here's what I do know to be true.
25:20
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you're in recovery, you know this, whether it's for mental health or addiction,
25:25
[SPEAKER_02]: when you are going into a treatment program, you're still wanting to protect yourself coping skills and what is worked for you.
25:35
[SPEAKER_02]: And you want to get out a lot of times.
25:37
[SPEAKER_02]: So you will say what needs to be said to get out.
25:41
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's also, I think, you know, on the admission side and getting them ready is really about the, you know, I mean, I remember at some of the programs I worked with, we were like, okay, you know, when,
25:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Your loved one comes in, let's say for this young adult program, you know, they're going to have a phone right away.
25:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so we're going to talk through a little bit and get you comfortable and have you meet with, you know, talk for the family liaison before because that phone is going to ring.
26:04
[SPEAKER_02]: We can't stop that.
26:06
[SPEAKER_02]: What we can help is, you know, you're messaging and yes, it's a therapy to like intervention when the right call happens right educated on that.
26:16
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, what are some like three teeth?
26:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Just a couple key questions that everyone should ask admissions.
26:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's no like my my my person, but like it's a know that person.
26:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Why do you work there?
26:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're going to places.
26:34
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
26:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Why don't you work, why you work there?
26:37
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
26:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes it's like I'm the product of this.
26:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
26:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes it's, you know, I've done my, I've done some places and I wanted to be in an environment that I could help people in this way.
26:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
26:50
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I mean, I think environment, that obviously the clinical programming, but do you understand that or not?
26:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't know why that matters.
26:59
[SPEAKER_01]: right, right.
27:01
[SPEAKER_03]: I think, I'll let you finish.
27:04
[SPEAKER_03]: I have three.
27:05
[SPEAKER_01]: That's it.
27:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
27:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Now you don't listen to me.
27:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I was kidding.
27:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I have 72 and a half, actually.
27:11
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
27:12
[SPEAKER_03]: 13.
27:13
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
27:15
[SPEAKER_03]: This is important to me.
27:16
[SPEAKER_03]: I do think ownership is important.
27:18
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think it matters.
27:20
[SPEAKER_03]: I think
27:26
[SPEAKER_03]: And again, I don't want to be careful, like I don't want to disparage places and I want to make sure like there are families that need to go to in network programs that may be owned by like private equity.
27:39
[SPEAKER_03]: I just, I think I would want to know like who is there, who's there daily, who is hand on, who is seeing, you know, like I love private owners because they're there and they're involved.
27:54
[SPEAKER_03]: But I'm not again like very much dashes and they do hell.
27:59
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, what did you say, Curtis?
28:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes they have great lot of dashes.
28:03
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
28:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Great.
28:05
[SPEAKER_03]: I think how how.
28:08
[SPEAKER_03]: This has become important to me over my years working in the field.
28:12
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
28:13
[SPEAKER_03]: How I am treated as a staff member, right?
28:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Like a good question.
28:17
[SPEAKER_03]: What?
28:17
[SPEAKER_03]: How am I asked to care for myself?
28:21
[SPEAKER_03]: How?
28:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
28:22
[SPEAKER_03]: How is the staff taking care of their?
28:25
[SPEAKER_03]: themselves.
28:26
[SPEAKER_03]: That's, that's something important to me.
28:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Also, who is, you know, who is your daily person?
28:33
[SPEAKER_03]: How many times are they going to be seeing their therapist?
28:36
[SPEAKER_03]: And how do they know your loved one?
28:40
[SPEAKER_03]: individually.
28:41
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
28:42
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I always throw out that cookie cutter statement because I don't think treatment is cookie cutter.
28:47
[SPEAKER_03]: I think Johnny coming in today doesn't fit the same.
28:52
[SPEAKER_03]: Everybody's not like Michael that came in yesterday.
28:55
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
28:56
[SPEAKER_03]: How are they actually looking at your loved one?
28:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
29:00
[SPEAKER_03]: And what ways do they look and understand the core underlying
29:05
[SPEAKER_03]: issues of your loved one, right?
29:08
[SPEAKER_03]: And they're not just saying, go to this and go to that and do that and do this or else.
29:13
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
29:15
[SPEAKER_03]: Does that make sense?
29:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I think on a personal note, because I do talk about my personal story, sometimes on this podcast, but part of my journey was an even like eight, nine years ago, I put myself in a residential treatment again to do like a three week assessment on my mental health and my medication.
29:34
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'll tell you right now, I did not ask the right questions.
29:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I literally, everything we are discussing today, I did not do.
29:42
[SPEAKER_02]: And even being a professional in the industry, it's so interesting.
29:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Like when you're doing it for others, it's one thing, but it's you or yours.
29:50
[SPEAKER_02]: I just, I went to a place, they took my insurance, and then I was there and I was like, wow.
29:57
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm seeing like four different doctors, you know, there's not one psychiatrist that is following me through this process, right?
30:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Or I only see my therapist this amount of time or and I didn't ask the right questions, they're for I didn't really get much out of those three weeks.
30:16
[SPEAKER_02]: I really didn't.
30:17
[SPEAKER_02]: I got a lot of med changes and I'm looking back.
30:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm mad that I didn't ask the right questions.
30:25
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I mean, there's buzzwords, right, in the industry, like, oh, we're individualized.
30:30
[SPEAKER_03]: I kind of hate that word.
30:33
[SPEAKER_03]: But there are programs that actually are there are programs that really are right.
30:37
[SPEAKER_03]: And I hate the dual diagnosis in, right, even trauma like.
30:42
[SPEAKER_03]: trauma informed right I would dive into what does that actually mean right what does that mean can you describe to me what do you do what that looks like right what do you do for trauma what do you do for psychiatry what do you do that makes it individualized thank you how big is your milieu because I always say there's no one's tag on a small meal
31:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I can't stress that enough, the more I've done this and there's so many programs I do love.
31:15
[SPEAKER_02]: But I will say if you're able to find a program with a smaller milieu, we'll get more of that individual attention and there's just really no price tag on that for me.
31:28
[SPEAKER_02]: What are the biggest mistakes you think families make when they're like evaluating treatment centers?
31:34
[SPEAKER_02]: They don't have certain questions.
31:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they're oftentimes driven by one aspect of price tag and usually the price tag, right?
31:47
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, price tag, absolutely.
31:49
[SPEAKER_01]: But it can vary from like, oh, I want somewhere that only treats men or women or something like that can have that, but they'll kind of blinder a lot of the other aspects to the right.
32:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
32:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And why that might be important for that person or not, right?
32:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that's, that's it.
32:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I look at it is that the price sign is a layer, right?
32:11
[SPEAKER_01]: That's going to be a filter.
32:12
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a filter.
32:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So like, the person's demographics are a filter, right?
32:18
[SPEAKER_01]: The geographic location is going to filter.
32:20
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like involvement of the family is going to filter.
32:23
[SPEAKER_01]: They're a clinical composition.
32:25
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to filter.
32:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's going to help you get to a few solid options to look like, right?
32:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, OK, can we look at the whole country?
32:37
[SPEAKER_01]: 10% of the market right in the field, all right, it's good to know that right, I look at that way, if that makes sense, Jen thoughts.
32:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I definitely, I mean, I agree a lot with what Curtis said, I definitely think it's they create barriers, I mean, and some of this is real, right, if it's is a real, so it's also like, hey, you have to know if you're in for.
33:04
[SPEAKER_03]: you have to know you're paying for, which is why I never lead with finances.
33:09
[SPEAKER_03]: And I even if that person never ends up at my facility, it's let me know as much as I can know about you and your family.
33:17
[SPEAKER_03]: And if it comes down to finances, please let me connect you.
33:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Right to places that I have seen known trust like based on when you've gathered yeah met their clinical right like you have enough information that I can connect you like you said warmly right right I'm not just going to give you a facility phone number I'm going to call that person for you and explain everything going on with your family yes and I'm going to connect the two of you.
33:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
33:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
33:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I found a lot of time.
33:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure you guys see this too.
33:50
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're representing or working for a treatment center, you might be kind of in the same pond with a few other people that are what we call the competitor, but not competitor.
34:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess the same sort of, I don't know,
34:10
[SPEAKER_02]: With young adult analysts and programs I've worked for is they would be comparing us to, you know, we're looking at you and then these two, which, you know, just and and what was, you know, they're like, but they're cheaper, you know, than you or, you know, and I understand prices a part of it, but then I will always say to the family, are you asking these questions, though, they make the cheaper, but find out why they're cheaper.
34:36
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean?
34:36
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly what I'm saying.
34:38
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you know, here are the questions you should ask and those are the things you should know about that place, right?
34:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
34:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
34:44
[SPEAKER_02]: You need to you can't just look at a price tag.
34:47
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think the main thing too is the biggest mistake families make is rushing this.
34:53
[SPEAKER_02]: like again, we can take a family in crisis, but it'd be a lot better if we talked to you before.
34:59
[SPEAKER_02]: And most of the time I'd like to say you probably know there's a problem going on.
35:03
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, it's always good to just call and investigate and do this homework, you know, instead of just waiting until some sort of shooter drop or for it to get really bad before you call, you know.
35:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Because with the urgency, you're not going to ask the right questions.
35:23
[SPEAKER_02]: You are going to just look at cost, you don't do an admission on Saturday.
35:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, we can't come in because we have to come into tomorrow.
35:32
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean?
35:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's just, I think, if you can slow the train down and just do this work.
35:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Because, yeah, it's the most important.
35:44
[SPEAKER_03]: make a knee jerk reaction decision, right?
35:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Like a crisis mode, right?
35:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Anyone would know and I have been there and done it, right?
35:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
35:53
[SPEAKER_03]: With my own loved ones or through grief or what have you, right?
35:57
[SPEAKER_03]: Not not just taking a pause and think like this is a this is a life.
36:03
[SPEAKER_03]: This could be a one shot, right?
36:06
[SPEAKER_03]: It could also prevent you from going over and over and over again through this, right?
36:11
[SPEAKER_03]: And so like take a pause, right?
36:15
[SPEAKER_03]: And see how meaningful it is to do it the right way, right?
36:20
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, we can work really quickly, right?
36:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, our pace, right?
36:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Because we know the steps that we need to walk through, right?
36:28
[SPEAKER_01]: If you align to that.
36:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
36:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
36:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And, um, and I think like intuition tells folks the best, right?
36:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's a crisis going on.
36:38
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really hard to listen to that, right?
36:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I'm all kind of disorganized.
36:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm worried.
36:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm fear.
36:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so layered.
36:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And do I say this?
36:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Could I not say this?
36:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Can I say this?
36:47
[SPEAKER_01]: But the right thing to do, you know?
36:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And so,
36:50
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, a professional who would have seen hundreds of those things can remain calm and there can help you move at a pace that's a priority to the situation when we understand.
36:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
37:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
37:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And the only rushing is if we hit the rush to the hospital, right?
37:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
37:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Great.
37:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not a cute setting.
37:08
[SPEAKER_02]: You're not that.
37:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
37:10
[SPEAKER_02]: And ask the questions because a lot of times, I feel that.
37:14
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, they're pretty websites or like they're leading with, oh, you can have a puppy or, um, you know, you're going to be on the luxury.
37:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
37:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
37:23
[SPEAKER_02]: We're luxury.
37:25
[SPEAKER_02]: But I have to tell and out out there because I even the sweet was dealing with the case a couple cases actually where families were looking at face treatment centers.
37:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Nothing against faith at all.
37:35
[SPEAKER_03]: But I also believe that all those centers need to have a clinical foundation.
37:40
[SPEAKER_02]: So to absolutely those questions because.
37:44
[SPEAKER_02]: That is important, you know what I mean?
37:46
[SPEAKER_02]: And really, really, and I've even, you know, it's funny as we're talking, like I've messed up so much for my life, even with my due diligence for like a new job, I didn't do homework, you know, and got there and was like, wow.
37:59
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't have a clinical program or I don't really like how they're doing treatment you know what I mean and and so you do you need to slow this down you know and also as I stress to parents all the time even though if your neighbor had success at a program that's great but again everybody is different and the individual needs are different and so don't just automatically go there because Johnny next door to great.
38:29
[SPEAKER_02]: you know what I mean?
38:32
[SPEAKER_03]: I worked with this family recently and I just use that as an example, right, because super, you know, very anxious, very scared parents, high-provisionant, right?
38:42
[SPEAKER_03]: They did do their research ahead and then crisis moment happened.
38:48
[SPEAKER_03]: But the crisis was pretty
38:50
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, there was some mental health and some mental health officers call, and then it's just like dad was very much trying to force it right get on the phone with him and he's calmer now and and I just said and I said listen, you have to listen and trust me, you have to.
39:09
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, you cannot force this, you cannot force your child in.
39:16
[SPEAKER_03]: at the wrong time or in the wrong place based on what's happening with him.
39:20
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
39:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
39:21
[SPEAKER_03]: So I don't know.
39:23
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think, you know, I think that has been and still is to this day.
39:30
[SPEAKER_02]: The most frustrating thing about our jobs is I truly believe we have the only careers
39:41
[SPEAKER_02]: in the world where families come and ask for help and resources, and
39:47
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of times don't follow the recommendation.
39:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Don't follow.
39:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Right?
39:53
[SPEAKER_02]: They come to us for the expert knowledge and just the information and still want to do it their way.
40:01
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm, it sounds really corny.
40:03
[SPEAKER_02]: And we, all of us have heard it.
40:05
[SPEAKER_02]: But like I always say, like, you know, if you, if you had cancer and you had came up, you needed came up.
40:11
[SPEAKER_02]: You'd want to go to the best, you know, right, best in the country to get that treatment.
40:16
[SPEAKER_02]: two things would happen.
40:17
[SPEAKER_02]: One, you would follow the doctor's recommendation, and I wouldn't just stop going to chemo because you were feeling better.
40:24
[SPEAKER_02]: And I can't stress this enough, like for insurance companies don't help.
40:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes with understanding that, you know, that behavior, health is the same as physical health, but it we...
40:36
[SPEAKER_02]: You're, you know, we're dealing with the disease of the brain, whatever it is, right, and so it's, it's so important that when you call us, especially the, once you know and you are interesting with that program to move forward follow all recommendations really follow.
40:54
[SPEAKER_03]: My least favorite question that families sorry for this I think that it might be not as important as other questions they should be asking right is what are your outcomes well outcomes are based on right you all following clinical recommendations and you participate in the program right right right right right yeah or yeah and also yeah stand that like
41:21
[SPEAKER_01]: We know what to get, like most places, if you have enough time and money, you can figure out what Google wants to see, so I can get in front of someone.
41:33
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a bit of a treatment set, I can get in front of someone.
41:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Things are not that diverse, right?
41:38
[SPEAKER_01]: You have some of the tag lines, right?
41:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Individualized care, like the levels of care, like how I position that, right?
41:46
[SPEAKER_01]: The one called takes that further about whether that holds up.
41:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And when you understand the nuance of this particular program's culture or this focus, right, you can understand whether it's going to be more of a fit or less of a fit than from your neighbor job, right, if they did.
42:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that that's important important.
42:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, oh, the last thing on the outcomes is like.
42:15
[SPEAKER_01]: You can ask me of the outcomes, right?
42:17
[SPEAKER_01]: What are those based on?
42:18
[SPEAKER_01]: You talked about the family engagement, right?
42:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, oftentimes it's based on a bias understanding of my program activities, right?
42:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And so like you, we're going to utilize as standard care evidence-based practices, or we're going to apply them, which have non-biased outcomes, right?
42:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And then those things are applied, right?
42:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Alright, a bit meant to that, but they work, right?
42:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
42:49
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, when things distract from that, alright, they don't, they're becomes harder.
42:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
42:56
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
42:57
[SPEAKER_03]: But where are you gonna say, Jen?
42:59
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like that, another really important question that might get missed is talk about aftercare, talk about discharge planning, right?
43:07
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, you're not sending your, your child or your loved one to treatment for 30 days and it's done.
43:15
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not like it's so not done like it's so not done, yeah, it's just like it is so not Yeah, right clearing we get here overnight.
43:25
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not getting it out of overnight like six years of you know mental health challenges is not gonna be sold in 30 days right we can So to fill the foundation we could right have a better understanding and strategy right
43:40
[SPEAKER_01]: We could actually start to build some skills and some nervous system Raccoon radio.
43:46
[SPEAKER_02]: No, and I tell families all the time.
43:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I do that like I think that 30 day model was designed by the military because that was their leave.
43:54
[SPEAKER_02]: But there's no documentation that that's true.
43:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
43:58
[SPEAKER_02]: But I'm not against 30 day anything.
44:01
[SPEAKER_02]: My point is it's only the it's a piece of the puzzle.
44:04
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think it's just the start.
44:06
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just the scratch of the surface.
44:09
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
44:10
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think like even when I like I'm very very very very careful of where I refer for just mental health treatment simply because if anyone's just 30 days and like do to an antidepressant and new one, we'll take four to six weeks to kick off.
44:28
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean?
44:29
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's it and this is a process and I think also I think
44:35
[SPEAKER_02]: two things one I think it is important and thank you for talking about the aftercare a lot of times I find that if you as an admissions team you're doing a family a disservice if you are taking kind of their every month of all the money for this starting place.
44:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
44:53
[SPEAKER_02]: And then they're left with nothing for aftercare and the aftercare whether it's extended care whether it's
45:02
[SPEAKER_02]: therapy, you need to plan out those resources, you know?
45:06
[SPEAKER_02]: So lately, at least for a year, and I'm saying doesn't need to be a year for everybody, but at least for a year, you need to know how your money is going to be spent, you know?
45:16
[SPEAKER_02]: And...
45:17
[SPEAKER_02]: It's very important and it's a great, great thing if you do have an admissions person speaking to that does want to talk about aftercare and discharge and all of the how does that work and if they have any you know on campus if that's and there's a next phase or whatever.
45:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I also think it's very important for especially families to ask because
45:41
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like what you said about the outcomes, what is the family piece?
45:44
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's their family therapy.
45:46
[SPEAKER_02]: How is the family involvement?
45:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Because, you know, as I was saying these parents yesterday, guys, if you can't even make the tiny shift, how can we ask Junior to make this tiny shift?
45:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
45:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
46:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And we need everybody to make a tiny shift for this to be effective and for this to work and that this is a family thing.
46:07
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's not just dropping your loved one off,
46:11
[SPEAKER_02]: and absolutely identified patient and asking us to fix it, you know what I mean?
46:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
46:17
[SPEAKER_01]: If you, for the three of us or in the situation, right, and then we all make a 10% shift, right, collectively that's a 30% shift in the problem, right, right, and yeah.
46:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, and so whatever shift any person could be it actually adds to that process.
46:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
46:35
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
46:36
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so important.
46:37
[SPEAKER_02]: It's really important when it's frustrating when I've had families, you know, but young adults who.
46:44
[SPEAKER_02]: get really mad because this isn't happening at this time or why did they leave another like run and all this kind of stuff and I'm like, I'll check in with them and I'll be like, when was the last time you were met with the family therapist, you know, did you go to these support groups, right?
46:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, how is your own recovery doing?
47:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Because you know, everyone's a part of this, you know, and I mean, I remember it was annoying, but my mom, my mom, I remember
47:14
[SPEAKER_02]: I was suffering and I was just like, I'm one out and she's like, I'm sorry.
47:18
[SPEAKER_02]: You're suffering.
47:19
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, but here's what I'm going to ask you to do because I'm going to do it myself.
47:23
[SPEAKER_02]: She's like, I'm going to go to my allen on needing tonight and ask for a number.
47:31
[SPEAKER_02]: So I can talk to somebody when I'm struggling because I'm
47:34
[SPEAKER_02]: They can understand what I'm coming from, so I need you to reach out to your counselor or something in your community and do the same thing because as much as I love you, I can't help you in this, you know, it's important.
47:48
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it like again, like going back to my own daughter also, right, like showing up when she when there was a family group and then there was a family group, but just parents and then there was her where I would.
48:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Ask hand it to me sometimes.
48:04
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
48:04
[SPEAKER_03]: So important, but it was like showing up and showing her.
48:09
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm in it with you.
48:10
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
48:11
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
48:12
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
48:12
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm in it with you.
48:13
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm committed to this.
48:14
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm committed to you.
48:15
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
48:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm committed to changing.
48:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
48:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And what?
48:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Great.
48:22
[SPEAKER_01]: It's uncomfortable.
48:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh.
48:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it's so comfortable.
48:26
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's the hardest thing, especially when we can go off on a tangent on this, but I think definitely with this generation of, and not all parents, but a lot of parents with this gentle parenting where they are so terrified or they don't want to, they're kid to be ever uncomfortable and that trumps everything.
48:46
[SPEAKER_02]: This is very difficult for them to
48:51
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, listen, this has been great.
48:53
[SPEAKER_02]: But before we end, I do want to ask you one last question.
48:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I ask everybody this, you know, if you have a family on the phone right now, before they get off, if there's one thing you want them to hear if nothing else, what would it be?
49:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Take your time.
49:11
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a, ooh, take your time to Lingott.
49:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Curtis, got an idea of what you would say.
49:18
[SPEAKER_03]: What is my time?
49:19
[SPEAKER_01]: No, pressure me.
49:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
49:22
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm feeling pressured.
49:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I think, okay.
49:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
49:30
[SPEAKER_03]: What would I want them to know?
49:31
[SPEAKER_03]: I think what I'd want them to know is that there is a solution.
49:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
49:36
[SPEAKER_03]: That there is hope that there are answers.
49:41
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't self disclose a ton, but if I'm working with a family and they've got a child, you know, and I do share.
49:48
[SPEAKER_03]: I have a daughter who's eight years so bird, who's a mother today, right, and I, and I've been through all their so there's hope, right, there is solution.
49:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
49:58
[SPEAKER_03]: And.
50:00
[SPEAKER_03]: I am never going to not pick up this phone again.
50:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
50:03
[SPEAKER_02]: We're not going anywhere.
50:04
[SPEAKER_02]: You guys.
50:05
[SPEAKER_03]: I am not leaving you.
50:06
[SPEAKER_03]: I am not leaving you whether you come to my facility or not.
50:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not writing you and we will.
50:13
[SPEAKER_03]: That's why you're so hard to forward.
50:16
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
50:17
[SPEAKER_03]: But I mean it.
50:18
[SPEAKER_03]: There's no it's forward, right?
50:20
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a path forward.
50:22
[SPEAKER_03]: And how do we figure that out?
50:23
[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah.
50:24
[SPEAKER_03]: And even one pandemic, I'm passionate about.
50:27
[SPEAKER_02]: No, it's true.
50:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Even parents who are literally financially and emotionally exhausted because they've been through all these programs and our program maybe the last stop.
50:36
[SPEAKER_02]: I really stress to them, like you just said, like, guys, there's so much hope.
50:42
[SPEAKER_03]: Please know this.
50:43
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, don't give up.
50:44
[SPEAKER_02]: We've got this.
50:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Keep going, you know, you know, take the information, call us back, but we're not going anywhere, you know, but there's just a lot of hope.
50:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
50:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Curtis, I like, I like people don't understand, like, just because
51:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're a conduit to that hope, right?
51:06
[SPEAKER_01]: We have just as much information that this could go really bad as this can go really good, right?
51:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
51:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And so like our decision making our guiding is going to be from that place of the more balanced place, right?
51:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
51:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And crisis is never can be in vain.
51:22
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the amount of dinner,
51:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I walk away from on a phone call to be helpful for someone.
51:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, are we signed up for this, right?
51:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, kind of silly thing.
51:33
[SPEAKER_01]: You're like, oh, wait.
51:33
[SPEAKER_01]: You want to get called at 9 o'clock at night on a Tuesday, right?
51:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, pretty much every,
51:40
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, one vacation next week and my wife goes hit to hold her family like, hey, just see you know, when Chris goes on vacation, that's when he gets the most calls.
51:49
[SPEAKER_01]: So just don't always be my goal to be the one.
51:52
[SPEAKER_02]: As soon as I get on the plane, my phone totally.
51:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, like that's how we do it.
52:01
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that's okay.
52:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
52:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so so honored to be that person right right right right and if I can answer like I'll text you right back and tell you when I can thank you exactly right you know to Jen's point so many answer the phone for my family and guided that thank you right
52:20
[SPEAKER_01]: That's, and if, and I wouldn't be doing this, had someone not taking that job.
52:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right.
52:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I still know the admissions person, my mom spoke to, you know, 20 or whatever years ago, because he did, his name was Matt, and he walked my mother through this whole process.
52:37
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, she didn't know anything about anything.
52:40
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I think it is important, you know, to let these families know we're not going anywhere.
52:46
[SPEAKER_02]: There's no judgment.
52:48
[SPEAKER_02]: There's no shame and that we're here and that we're going to help walk through this with you.
52:53
[SPEAKER_02]: And if not with us, we're going to warmly hand you off to a club, you know, a few programs that may be a fit based on what you're telling me.
53:01
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean?
53:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
53:03
[SPEAKER_02]: So I just guys, I want to say thank you for being here on.
53:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Good night.
53:07
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, all you guys have been great.
53:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you're one of my favorite people right here right here seriously and if anybody wants to check out Desert willow wellness or driftwood their links will be on our show notes and You can reach out to Jen and Curtis directly.
53:30
[SPEAKER_02]: So there you go.
53:32
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
53:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks guys.
53:33
[SPEAKER_03]: All right.
53:34
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you here.
53:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for tuning into this episode of Connect Call.
53:39
[SPEAKER_02]: As we conclude, remember that insights shared are intended for informational and educational purposes only and should not substitute professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.
53:49
[SPEAKER_02]: We strongly recommend consulting a qualified medical health professional or health care provider for personalized advice tailored to your unique needs.
53:58
[SPEAKER_02]: your mental health journey is important and having the right support is essential.
54:02
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're experiencing a mental health crisis or require immediate assistance, please reach out to a mental health provider or emergency services in your area.
54:11
[SPEAKER_02]: We're grateful to have you as part of our community and your well-being remains our priority.
54:16
[SPEAKER_02]: So follow us on social media to stay connected and be sure to catch one of our episodes on our YouTube channel.
54:22
[SPEAKER_02]: We're here to support you every step of the way.