Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #563 I Swear You Shouldn't Be Saying That

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#563 I Swear You Shouldn't Be Saying That · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Now, kids swear usually because they want a reaction. They'll
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  Speaker 2: do it for the shock, they'll do it for the blob,
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: they'll do it for something. They'll also do it because
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  Speaker 2: they want to fit in.
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  Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum
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  Speaker 1: and dad.
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  Speaker 3: Hello.
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  Speaker 2: My name is doctor Justin Coulson. I am the husband
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: of Kylie Coulson, the mum to our six kids. Is
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  Speaker 2: that the kind of intro that you like, Yes, star
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  Speaker 2: of the show, missus Happy Families.
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  Speaker 3: It's not about being the star of the show.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: I says the star of the show. It's not about me. Hey,
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  Speaker 2: Every Tuesday, we do our very best to answer your questions.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: We love it when you send us emails podcasts at
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: Happy Families dot com dot au, and we especially love
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: it when you include an audio file with your question
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: because we love to hear your voices as well. Here's
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  Speaker 2: one that's come through from Erin.
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  Speaker 4: Hi, Justin and crly insights into how to deal with swearing.
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  Speaker 4: We have three children and our eight year old son
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  Speaker 4: when he gets angry, particularly if he's being redirected or
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  Speaker 4: corrected by us. His first emotion is often anger, and
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  Speaker 4: the swearing that we hear from him is in the extreme. Now,
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  Speaker 4: in our family, we don't swear, and I wondered if
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  Speaker 4: you had any ideas about how to stamp it out.
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  Speaker 4: It just feels kind of a bit soul destroying to
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  Speaker 4: hear your child speak to you in that way.
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  Speaker 2: So, Kylie, the swearing issue, it's one that we've had
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  Speaker 2: to deal with in our family more than once. And
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  Speaker 2: when on swears, we're a bit like erin in that
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  Speaker 2: we've got certain language standards for our home. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: we don't even say what the kids don't even say
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  Speaker 2: the words stupid or shut up or anything like that.
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  Speaker 3: Right right, Well do you live then?
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  Speaker 2: Okay, we discourage it.
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  Speaker 3: We discourage it strongly. I may have actually been quite
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  Speaker 3: a bad influence on our kids because we don't swear.
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  Speaker 3: But crap does get a pretty good workout out of
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  Speaker 3: my mouth.
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  Speaker 2: Now saying some people would say that that is a
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  Speaker 2: swear word, yeah, it probably is. I don't think that
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  Speaker 2: it is, because I said it was pretty crap, all right.
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  Speaker 2: So at twenty thirteen study that I found looking at
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  Speaker 2: eight year olds showed that eight year olds in twenty
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  Speaker 2: thirteen New fifty four to boo words starting with shut
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  Speaker 2: up and stupid.
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  Speaker 3: I thought there was only seven and progressing for the
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  Speaker 3: fifty four fifty four. Where have I been living?
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  Speaker 2: I think with shut up and stupid, but then progressing
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  Speaker 2: from this way. Yes, so we're studying at a fairly
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  Speaker 2: low based tine and then pushing it out from there.
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  Speaker 3: I'm thinking of the deadly sins.
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  Speaker 2: But as Erin has said, we're talking about an eight
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  Speaker 2: year old here who's swearing using all of the big woods.
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  Speaker 3: Well, I remember how it was dealt with when I
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  Speaker 3: was little. Probably wouldn't do that today. Yeah, how was that?
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  Speaker 2: You're going to say soap or something like that. Well,
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  Speaker 2: I mean we had that on parental guidance last year
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  Speaker 2: as well.
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  Speaker 5: If they use their words incorrectly, if they're swearing or
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  Speaker 5: using abusive or rude length, which then obvious consequence for
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  Speaker 5: that would be we actually do put a bit of
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  Speaker 5: soap on their toothbrush and brush their teeth.
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  Speaker 3: Is so. I remember my little sister, she was about three,
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  Speaker 3: and she was going to family daycare and she came
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  Speaker 3: home with the F bomb. No big time, but the
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  Speaker 3: crazy thing is kids at that age have no understanding.
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  Speaker 2: Well, and I was going to say, it's a totally
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  Speaker 2: different thing when you've got a three year old who's
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  Speaker 2: saying something explicit third it versus an eight year old
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  Speaker 2: who is losing it and using those words as weapons.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, an errand situation. It feels personal, It feels
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  Speaker 3: like an attack.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it does. So. I mean, I've got a handful
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  Speaker 2: of solutions that we can talk about, but I think
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  Speaker 2: we've got to discuss just a couple of other things
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  Speaker 2: before we get to solutions.
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  Speaker 3: So one of the things I think we've come to
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  Speaker 3: recognize as we've parented our children is that words have
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  Speaker 3: a lot of power, and the bigger reaction we give
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  Speaker 3: to those words, the more power we give to the
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  Speaker 3: words that are being used.
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  Speaker 2: I love that concept. Michael Hutchins, the late Michael Hutchins
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  Speaker 2: from in Excess in the song Devil Inside use the
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  Speaker 2: line words or weapons sharper than knives, and our eight
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  Speaker 2: year olds when they're upset, they know that they comprehend
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  Speaker 2: that it makes sense to them.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: I think about even my experiences as a young child
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  Speaker 3: and the times where I said the worst things, not
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  Speaker 3: necessarily swear words, but mean things were the times where
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  Speaker 3: I was hurting the most.
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  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, that's when you yell at your parents, I
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  Speaker 2: hate you.
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  Speaker 3: You don't understand the worst parents in the world. So
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  Speaker 3: the amazing thing about the power of words is it
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  Speaker 3: actually gives us an insight into our children in a
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  Speaker 3: way that they might not even be aware of if
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  Speaker 3: we're attune to what's going on.
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  Speaker 2: Right, So words have power, But words also, especially when
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  Speaker 2: our children are melting down like that, high motions, low intelligence.
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  Speaker 2: What we're getting is insight into this is something that
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  Speaker 2: means a lot to my child. This is something that
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  Speaker 2: creates either some tenderness or some frustration or some fear,
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  Speaker 2: some sadness, some stress or challenge that they're not equipped
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  Speaker 2: for yet.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, and Aaron's acknowledged that. Obviously, when the situation calms down,
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  Speaker 3: they're able to have some really beautiful connecting times. So
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  Speaker 3: the challenge is how do we help them navigate the
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  Speaker 3: space while they're stressed.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, So we'll talk about that shortly. There's a couple
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  Speaker 2: of other things that I think we need to talk
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  Speaker 2: about in terms of why the swearing is happening. So
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  Speaker 2: when I look at research around this, kids swear usually
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  Speaker 2: because they want a reaction. Okay, so when Erin is saying,
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  Speaker 2: my husband says we need to do something about this,
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  Speaker 2: eight year old goes got the reaction I wanted. So
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  Speaker 2: they will do it for a reaction. They'll do it
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  Speaker 2: for the shock, they'll do it for the blow up,
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  Speaker 2: they'll do it for something. They'll also do it because
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  Speaker 2: they want to fit in. And so Aeron's highlighted that
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  Speaker 2: the skatepark is an environment where there's going to be
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  Speaker 2: a whole lot of content that we wouldn't want to
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  Speaker 2: hear in our own and home, but to fit in
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  Speaker 2: these words coming out. I still think though that the
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  Speaker 2: research probably best encapsulates Errand's issue. Sometimes kids just do
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  Speaker 2: it out of anger, they do it because they're so
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  Speaker 2: so mad. And other times we're dealing with things like
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  Speaker 2: ADHD or autism or even Tourett's or some other kind
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  Speaker 2: of inhibitory challenge, and to the research points to kids
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  Speaker 2: using this kind of course language in those circumstances as well.
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  Speaker 2: There are reasons that they might be doing it.
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  Speaker 3: Obviously we're not there and we only have a really
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  Speaker 3: small snippet of information, but as a parent, sometimes there
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  Speaker 3: are signals, we can see the build up and if
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  Speaker 3: we can actually kind of cut the circuit before it builds.
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  Speaker 2: Sure, Yeah, So what's the quality of the connection? Is
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  Speaker 2: the child experiencing stress? What's the power dynamic in the relationship.
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  Speaker 2: All of these underlying factors, as well as just the
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  Speaker 2: child being hungry or angry alanly of a lot of stress,
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  Speaker 2: All of these underlying factors could also be used to
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  Speaker 2: our advantage by getting in early before they blow up,
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: before things get too much. There was a podcast conversation
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  Speaker 2: that I had a couple of months ago with Professor
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  Speaker 2: Todd Kashton that was.
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  Speaker 3: Such a good conversation, and I actually just listened to
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  Speaker 3: it recently in preparation for today because I wondered whether
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  Speaker 3: there was some kind of helps that we could reiterate.
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  Speaker 3: But one of the things that I loved because there
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  Speaker 3: was an acknowledgment in that podcast that we and Todd
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  Speaker 3: have very different views on the use of language.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's pro, he's pro course, he loves some explicit language, very.
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  Speaker 3: Colorful, but he was able to kind of just elaborate
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  Speaker 3: on how that language is used in the home, and
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  Speaker 3: the acknowledgment that in the home he doesn't care what
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  Speaker 3: kind of language the kids use. They can use whatever
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  Speaker 3: language they want, but an acknowledgement that if they want
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  Speaker 3: to be really creative around the use of words, then
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  Speaker 3: using the seven deadly sins that we previously talked about.
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  Speaker 3: Using the seven seven really bad words is pretty lame,
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  Speaker 3: a pretty lame at attempt at conveying what you're feeling.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I love the phrase that I heard when I
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  Speaker 2: was a kid. Profanity is a feeble mind trying to
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  Speaker 2: express itself. Forcibly, if you go back to listen to
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  Speaker 2: episode four hundred and seventy four, episode four seven four
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  Speaker 2: with Todd Kashton, he'll explain what he's done with his
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  Speaker 2: kids to encourage them to express themselves well but not
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  Speaker 2: necessarily rely on the same bland course language that most
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  Speaker 2: people are used to hearing. And it's actually really enlightening
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  Speaker 2: and it might actually provide a solution. After the break,
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  Speaker 2: my five ideas for how to help our kids stop swearing.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: Just when you think you've got this parenting gig nailed,
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: your child hits some new milestone that leaves you figuratively
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: banging your head against the wall. You wonder, where's the
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: instruction manual? Your Growth Guide is that instruction manual, a
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: webinar outlining basic milestones so you know where your child's at,
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: where they're going, and what you can expect to get. Insights,
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: reassurance and support from your Growth Guide available online at
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: happy families dot com dot a you.
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast with a time
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: poor parent who just wants answers now, And I'm wondering
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: what your tips are, Doctor Justin.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: Coles In just before I share that with you, my
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  Speaker 2: favorite line from do you have watched The Young Ones
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: British comedy show. These four crazy, completely distinct, different weirdos
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: all moved into the same unit.
• 9:28
  Speaker 5: Can you two guys stop hustling each other?
• 9:31
  Speaker 6: I'm getting really bored with it, all right, Neil's getting bored.
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  Speaker 6: The most boring person the whole world is finally getting
• 9:38
  Speaker 6: a taste of his own medicine.
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  Speaker 3: I think you made me watch it once. I did
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  Speaker 3: still The Young Ones because I watched it and I
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: was like, what are you on about?
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: There's Rick and Neil and Mike. Ben Elton used to write,
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  Speaker 2: It's such a funny show.
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  Speaker 3: I love the have a very very dim memory of
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: you making me watch it did you want to the
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: early days.
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  Speaker 2: I loved it, and there was there was this one
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  Speaker 2: episode where there's these devils in hell or something like that,
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: and they get let out of somebody that mentions their name,
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: and no one ever mentions their name because they're really
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: weird names. One of them's name is for Toms.
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  Speaker 6: Under the new ruling, all a student needs to qualify
• 10:10
  Speaker 6: for an increased grant is a nimble duel for too
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  Speaker 6: much from the local authority.
• 10:19
  Speaker 5: What's for too for Tom?
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  Speaker 2: She gets lead it out of hell for a day
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  Speaker 2: to recap it some some bizarre thing. But I remember,
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  Speaker 2: for a while I would use the word for tums
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  Speaker 2: as my cost language explete if it was my opportity.
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  Speaker 2: Oh for Toms, I'd get so craggy and use for tomp.
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  Speaker 2: And I love this idea that we can just become
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  Speaker 2: explosive with fun, creative words. Maybe that's an idea. But
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  Speaker 2: five ideas, Kylie, let me run through them. One one,
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  Speaker 2: let me one forth, Let me run through them.
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  Speaker 3: Number one.
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  Speaker 2: I want to start by giving a content warning for
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  Speaker 2: the next thirty seconds or so. One of our staff
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  Speaker 2: members shared a story with me, and if you've got
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  Speaker 2: children listening, this is not a story for children. I
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  Speaker 2: want to give you it just a second of press pause.
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  Speaker 2: This is definitely not a story for children. So now
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  Speaker 2: that I've given that content warning, my staff member's son
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  Speaker 2: yelled at his brother, suck my balls. He actually shouted
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: at his brother. He was really angry and he was
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: trying to give him a really hard time. And my
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  Speaker 2: staff member walked into the room and said, do you
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  Speaker 2: know what you just said, to which the boy replied, yeah,
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: like he thought he was going to get in heaps
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  Speaker 2: of trouble. And she said, you're not in trouble, but
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  Speaker 2: I just want to make sure that you understand what
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  Speaker 2: you just said. You actually just asked your brother to
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  Speaker 2: perform moral sex on you. Now, I know I've been
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  Speaker 2: really explicit with that, But sometimes if we've got a
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  Speaker 2: child who is using this kind of language, if we
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: can just pause, slow it down, and explain precisely what
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  Speaker 2: they've said and what it actually means, what we might
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  Speaker 2: find is that they may start using alternative language.
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  Speaker 3: Or they may look at you and go, what would
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  Speaker 3: you know? I don't think so thought would you know?
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  Speaker 2: I think that in that case, and in fact, in
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  Speaker 2: her case, her son was extraordinary he was mortified. He
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  Speaker 2: was so embarrassed. Number one, who was embarrassed that his
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  Speaker 2: mum was talking to him about it. But number two,
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  Speaker 2: when he paused and thought about the ridiculous nature of
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: what he'd said, he was like, oh my goodness, Okay,
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  Speaker 2: so content warning over. But I just wanted to share
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  Speaker 2: that as my first option, explain what it means, because
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  Speaker 2: when your kids understand what it means, all of a sudden,
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  Speaker 2: the words don't quite have the same power that perhaps
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  Speaker 2: they thought that they did. The second option is a
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  Speaker 2: very very low key, really soft option, and that's just
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: to explain the importance of consideration of others. So you
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: mentioned before in episode four to seventy four of the
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  Speaker 2: podcast with Todd Kashton, he is fine with his kids
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: using whatever language they want. But one thing that he
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: was really clear about, and I'm so glad he was,
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  Speaker 2: is that when other people are in the home, outside
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  Speaker 2: of the family, or when we're outside of the home,
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  Speaker 2: we need to be mindful that other people may not
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  Speaker 2: feel the same way we do about the way these
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: words are being used. And while I don't I don't
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  Speaker 2: necessarily agree with this idea, it may be useful in
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  Speaker 2: this context for this family, and that is you might
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  Speaker 2: say to your child. We can't control the language that
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  Speaker 2: you use, but we do have certain standards in our home.
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  Speaker 2: If you want to use that language with your friends
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  Speaker 2: or down at the skate park, if you want to
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  Speaker 2: use that language in other contexts, that's up to you.
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  Speaker 2: But when you're here or when you're around other people
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  Speaker 2: who might find this language inappropriate, we ask that you
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  Speaker 2: are considerate of them.
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  Speaker 3: Is one of your points emotion coaching? No, it's not.
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: Oh really, I think that this is a perfect time,
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: especially when you think about Aaron's story and the acknowledgment
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  Speaker 3: that her son is using this behavior when he has
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: big emotions. Yeap, So helping him understand what he's feeling
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  Speaker 3: when he's not feeling those big emotions outside of the fact,
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  Speaker 3: and what other options he would have available to him
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  Speaker 3: to be able to express himself adequately would be really
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  Speaker 3: powerful for him.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, when our kids are in the heat of the moment,
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: it may not work, but it's worth trying because emotion
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: coaching is profoundly powerful when we get it right. It
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: takes practice, so you might want to practice in times
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: that aren't quite this heat.
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  Speaker 3: Well, it's probably not going to happen when he's heated,
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: and that's what I'm saying, but it can.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: Like I've emotion coached you through some pretty big emotions
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: and our kids what he's saying, I'm just putting it
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: out there. But when your child's losing it, instead of
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: saying stop it, cut it out, or whatever you might say.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: You're really mad about this, and.
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  Speaker 3: As hard as it is, you can't make it about
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: you because it's hurtful. It's really hurtful in the moment,
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: but it's actually not about you and being able to
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: take yourself outside of that and just focus on this
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: little human being who is hurting.
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  Speaker 2: You're so mad, you're so frustrated. You just want to
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  Speaker 2: let everyone know about it. You want to use all
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: the bad words that you can and just let this go,
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: don't you your furious, So don't give the words power.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: Just acknowledge the emotions. So there's a couple of other
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: things that I'm going to run through fairly quickly because
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: time is getting away from us. But I hope this
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: is helpful. The first is be mindful of what content
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: your child is accessing. Obviously, your child accessing content online
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: and on Netflix, or whatever. That could have some impact.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: But we need to be mindful that even if they're
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: not being exposed to this stuff through the media, they
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: are being exposed to it in the playground. So that's
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: going to have some impact, but not a lot. But
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: I definitely think that we need to maintain our standards
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: in the home, even when it comes to media consumption.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: Never ever accept abuse. Never accept abuse. I would be
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: getting dad to step in quite firmly. So there's a
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: difference between coercive discipline and confrontive discipline. Coercive discipline is
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: when you say I'm going to make you do this,
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: here's what's going to happen if you don't do it,
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: and it gets kind of nasty. We're using our power
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: to force something to happen. Confrontive discipline is not the same.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: Confrontive discipline is when somebody steps in and says, hey,
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: what's going on is not okay, and I'm going to
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  Speaker 2: call you out on this. We need to do something
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  Speaker 2: about it, and it needs to stop now. So I
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: remember when one of the kids was unkind to you
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: once and was saying something really rude. I stepped in
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: and I said something along the lines of you are
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: talking to the one person in the world that I
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: would literally do anything for, the most important person in
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: my life, the most important person in my world. And
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: you can do and say whatever you like to whoever
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: else you want, but you will not ever speak like
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: that and use that kind of language in relationship to
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: your mum. I got the old patriarchal and paternalistic and
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: all that sort of thing, But it sent a rilliculous
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: message to the kids that they don't speak like that
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: about you or to you. I reckon if dad can
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: step in and just say no. And I've said that
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: when they've been saying it to one another as well,
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: when they've been cruel to one another. It's like, no, no,
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: Your sister is one of the most important people in
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: my life. If anyone came into the house and started
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: to behave like that, I'd stop it, no matter what
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: it took. I would not accept that from a stranger
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: in the house. I'm certainly not going to accept it
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: from you. Sometimes, that confrontive discipline, it's not threatening. It's
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: not saying I'm going to take your ripad off you
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: for a week. It's just calling and saying no. And
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: here's why we can't ever accept abuse and Kylie, ultimately,
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: what we've got to do is get curious. We've kind
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: of that's been an underlying theme of the whole podcast.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: What's underlying this? Where it's this coming from what's really
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: going on? What do you think we can do better?
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: How are we going to do with it next time?
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: They're my answers, no quick fixes at all, but hopefully
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: they're helpful for you.
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: Erin.
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: I think the only other thing that I would acknowledge
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: is that when I think about some of I'm going
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: to say, you're bad habits. Right. I don't have any
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: sure now, But when I think about bad habits that
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: I have or things that I want to overcome or change,
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: and think about how many times I slip up, how
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: many times or how long the process is to change
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: that behavior, right, recognizing that in our children it's no
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: different and probably even harder for them because they don't
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: have the same experience and maturity that we have to
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: make those changes, and so it really requires a soft
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: place as we help them navigate and.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: A good example, Aaron. We hope this has been helpful.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Rowland from
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: Bridge Media Craig Bruce is our executive producer, and if
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: you like more refol about making your family happier, please
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: visit us at happy families dot com, dot a